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[0:01] ♪ Musical number: "When Lightning Strikes" — performed by Tom McGovern ♪

[0:35] Jeryl Brunner: This is Jeryl Brunner, and you're listening to When Lightning Strikes. Geraldine Hughes currently stars opposite Matthew Broderick and Max Baker in David Ireland's play Ulster American at Irish Repertory Theatre. Her theater credits include Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, Jerusalem, Cyrano de Bergerac, Molly Sweeney, and Translations. Geraldine also received multiple awards for writing and performing her gorgeous solo play, Belfast Blues. On screen, her work includes Tokyo Vice, Your Honor, The Blacklist, and Gran Torino. Well, welcome. Thank you very much. It's such a joy to have you on the show, especially in the midst of this epically intimate play, Ulster American. I'm curious, how do you describe the play?

If somebody were to say, what is it about? Here we have the playwright, you, Ruth, the actor, the Hollywood Oscar-winning actor, and the director who commissions your work, the playwright's work. Very different human beings, different temperaments, but I'll let you tell it.

[2:03] Geraldine Hughes: The play takes place in Lee Carver's apartment, a flat in London, and Lee Carver is played by Max Baker, and he is the director of a play that my character, Ruth Davenport, has written. Matthew Broderick plays Jay Conway, who will be the star of this play, the leading man of this play, and he is a very famous American actor, and it is the night before rehearsals begin. And the play centers around the three of them gathering, and some things have been said before my arrival. I arrive late, and certain things have happened to cause me to be late. Really, I think this play is a very serious play disguised as a drawing-room comedy. I would describe it, I think it covers a lot of massive topics in an extremely humorous, dark, dark, humorous way.

It is, you know, it's a play about a lot of things. It's a play about narcissism, celebrity, misogyny, violence, and you know, as members of society, how we treat celebrities and what we can allow them to get away with in intimate settings when we think no one else is listening, and they've said some things like, oh, well, just let that slide, because I'm so excited to be in the room with these people. That is specifically very terrible for me, because I've never been impressed with celebrity, you know. And for me, you know, I play an Ulster Protestant, and I come from Belfast myself and grew up a far cry from being an Ulster Protestant. The whole idea of identity in the play is very, very important as well.

Yeah, and politics, and I feel like especially Americans, maybe we have a vision of that area of the world, and the troubles, and what happened, and who the players are, and where we fit there, and it really stands all these expectations we have on their head, you know, which is so fascinating. And then it's also there are moments that are so funny, and then sometimes you think, oh, wait, can I laugh at that? I don't want to give out too many spoilers.

[4:47] Jeryl Brunner: What went through your mind when you learned about the play?

[4:51] Geraldine Hughes: Yeah, well, a friend of mine sent it to me a number of years ago, and he is from an Ulster Protestant background, and he thought that I would really appreciate the play, and when I read it, it just knocked me for six. I thought it was an exceptional investigation, not just into the politics of the mindset of Ulster Protestantism, but everything else that went along with it, and I just thought I could really dig my teeth into this character. And also, quite honestly, I couldn't stop laughing. I just could not stop laughing, and then I had a wee reading of it with some friends, and I could not stop laughing. And that's the thing, you know, this whole notion that it's okay to laugh at these things, because these things are what people say, and as inappropriate and as offensive as they are, that's also eventually dealt with in the play in a certain manner, which I won't give away.

But, you know, there's a bit of satisfaction at the end of the play. I mean, for some people. But yeah, it's really about pushing boundaries in the theatre, and I'm so thrilled that the Irish Rep agreed to do the play, because the Irish Rep is one of the most – it's a jewel of a theatre. It's an incredible place. Ciarán and Charlotte are the most amazing people. It's a gorgeous place to work. And, you know, you take a risk with doing something theatre that provokes, which is what theatre should do. Theatre should provoke. You know, it's why else are we doing it? So, as well as the incredibly beautiful classics that they put on there, they are really, you know, entering into the world of today and tomorrow of Ireland.

And, you know, this point of view is an important part of it. And I'm so very thrilled that they chose to do it. And the idea that we've been sold out, and people who come just want to talk and talk and talk about it afterwards, because I say, I can't believe I laughed at that. But also, I need to really talk about what the heck I just watched on that stage, you know. Yeah. So, it's a complicated piece, I think.

[7:15] Jeryl Brunner: I love that Irish Rep is taking risks. I think also of the honey trap, you know. Lots of standing on its head are preconceived notions of what has occurred in Northern Ireland and where people sit. I love that, you know, people they're looking at all angles.

[7:43] Geraldine Hughes: It's very important, very important from such a, you know, such a troubled place as the north of Ireland was and still is. Not troubled in the way that it used to be, but certainly still has its troubles. We're no longer at war, but we still have an awful lot of healing to do. To shine light on this sort of Protestant version, opinion and experience is so important. We must sit, I think, in any world of divisiveness. I mean, you know, we're in a crazy time here in America and in the world, but you know, to really sit in the other skin and whichever side that is for you. And as an American audience coming and being educated as well, you know, when I say the things I say about politics, I try to be as articulate as I can because I know the American audiences are leaning in and really trying to absorb that. And understand.

[8:47] Jeryl Brunner: You know, broaden. Because I think about how Ruth sits, your character Ruth, sits at the intersection of art, fidelity and power. And how do you approach building her from the inside out? You just make her so three-dimensional.

[9:07] Geraldine Hughes: Well, she's a very fierce woman and fierce in a beautiful way. I come from a working-class background from the same place, but from the opposite other side of the wall, as we would say. So tapping into that ability to be fierce and to stand up for who you are and what it is you stand for, it was very accessible. It was not accessible for me to say the things that she says in terms of the politics because, of course, that for the first time for me was stepping into that skin. And so Ruth is, you know, all three of them are not really nice people. They really aren't. They're very selfish and narcissistic and they want what they want. But the important thing in this play, I think, is, of course, never to play the end.

And for Ruth, she could really get there very quickly. To navigate all the things that are said to her from the first five minutes that she's on the stage, to sort of navigate and try and understand, or not forgive, but let things go. That's why the rhythm of the play, we have to sort of keep the ball in the air because if you stop for a second and let a lot of breath in, I think that my character would get to the end very quickly and try not to give things away. And the humour of it, you know, the humour to play that sort of almost farcical kind of thing, but also have an extremely real person with a big soul and big beliefs underneath that, that is a bit tricky to navigate, but I love doing it. I love playing all of that.

[11:15] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah, I love how unwavering they are. They just refuse. It's like they have their line in the sand, you know, they stuck their shovel in the sand and they're not veering from it. What was the rehearsal room like?

[11:31] Geraldine Hughes: The rehearsal room? With all of you? Yeah! It was one of the most joyous experiences. First, I always love rehearsal, but this rehearsal was, I mean, it's the three of us saying these things every single day. The line learning was difficult. I mean, it's a difficult play to learn. But we just had such a great time. I mean, Kieran would say to us, the director and the owner of The Irish Rep and our leader, our fearless leader, he would say, guys, I honestly just want to sit and watch you do this play every single day. This is ridiculous. And sometimes then we'd get off on tangents and be talking about different things and have cups of tea. And then suddenly we're like, I think we have to actually do this in front of an audience soon, you know.

We were having such great crack, crack being Irish for fun. It was tea and biscuits and laughs and hilarity and sometimes confusion and sometimes a little concern sometimes about how is this actually really going to go over, you know. And after the first couple of previews, we were like, oh, I think we're going to be okay.

[12:51] Jeryl Brunner: Because you were extended, you know. And also I wondered, because you mentioned here you're from the other side of the wall, so to speak. You talked about how it was hard at first to say some of these lines. How did you make that shift? What did you have to tell yourself? How did you come to that place of feeling sympathetic towards Ruth?

[13:15] Geraldine Hughes: Yeah, I don't believe personally what she says, but I'm an actor. So I don't necessarily agree with every character I've ever played on stage. But it's true, it is a deeply personal experience for me because I lived that life over there and I was in the war and as a child of war and it was a big leap for me. But at the end of the day, one must honour what has been written. David Ireland is an extraordinary writer. He writes from a deeply complicated place in his own life and one must really lean in and listen to what he does in this play. And she is a very accomplished playwright. She has a real career.

[14:30] Jeryl Brunner: It's been very successful. She comes in with a lot of excitement, but also a lot of credits. She's been commissioned to write this play. It's an important play. They've brought in this very successful Oscar-winning movie star. Yes. They've sold out the play in advance because he's in it. We all know that that is what's happening today. That's what's happening. She's a brilliant person. She's a woman of conviction and beliefs. She speaks of who she is and where she's from. You can only play that with complete truth on her behalf and on David's behalf. That's what really stands out for all of you is the truthfulness of your performances. And that's why we get so invested and truly care about everyone. It's very complex. I'd love to know about your Lightning Strikes! moment when you knew you had to be an artist.

[15:29] Geraldine Hughes: In your play, Belfast Blues, you talk about your childhood in the midst of war, a child of many brothers and sisters and dreaming. It's the most incredible story. Well, I knew there was a way to escape when I was very little. When I was playing Mary in the Nativity play, I knew that that was a way that I could escape what I was experiencing. That that would be something that would be great for me. But then, of course, when this American production company came to Ireland to put me in their movie, I thought, well, hold on a second. There's something that exists where I can be an actor and escape into other worlds and do that. That to me, I mean, was the big, when you talk about a lightning strike moment, you know, you're flown to Los Angeles, being plucked out of a war zone and being thrown into Los Angeles, you know, to star in a movie of the week. Like, wait, what is this other planet, this other kind of existence that happens?

[16:58] Jeryl Brunner: I am so enraptured by the story, how here you are. Do you mind sharing some of it? Here you are, a kid at school. How old were you?

[17:10] Geraldine Hughes: I was 12. I think I was 12 or 13. Yeah, and the nuns sent us down to audition for this film. I was chosen because I was a good girl and I auditioned for this. Out of the whole school, you were like one of like four kids, right? Like just a handful of kids who was chosen.

[17:26] Geraldine Hughes: Yeah, well, four kids from all of Ireland, basically. I mean, thousands of kids auditioned for this and four of us were chosen and we were flown to LA and we did this movie. But wait, can we just go back for a second? So here you are in school. So the nuns in your school said, we're going to pick some people to send to meet with this movie director to audition for a possible role and send to America. And I thought all the pieces, like what if the nuns didn't pick you that day? But you got selected. The first audition was in Belfast, two auditions. The screen test was in Dublin. But the first audition was just in a room with the director and a conversation. I didn't have to read anything or whatever.

But I think there was a real sadness about this wee character, Mary, who I played. And I was a sad kid, you know? I mean, how could you not be sad living? I mean, we lived in the worst housing project in Europe at the time, which was in the middle of a war zone. So there was not a lot of happiness about my wee self. And I think that's what they needed for that part. And it was just unreal that that happened. And the older I get, as a woman in her mid-50s now, you read my bio and you think, I actually don't know how I did it, how I actually, that wee girl went and did that film and came home and then worked to get back to America to make this happen. And so the bolt of lightning for me was getting the call that I got that part in that film.

I mean, it's 1984, you know, you didn't have internet, no cell phones. You know, the kids today can FaceTime and see other places in the world, go on Instagram. But this was just going on an airplane with the other three kids and a priest and a chaperone who went with us. And just, I mean, I just got on a TWA plane and landed in a very hot LA. It was quite the thing, you know? It was quite the event.

[20:23] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah. And I'm thinking even of the audition, you know, like you couldn't watch a YouTube video on how to audition. You didn't have formal training, right?

[20:40] Geraldine Hughes: No, none of that. How did you know, you know, this is how I play a character. This is how I read. This is how...

[20:48] Geraldine Hughes: I don't know. These are brilliant questions. No one's ever asked me this before, this sort of notion. I just, you know, I think, let me think about that. I mean, I suppose, I suppose the only thing I could do was be completely truthful. And I think because I was, and as I am today, I'm a very open person. I think talking and being open and truthful about things is really important. I think as a wee girl, I just thought, well, you're going to ask me about my life. I'm going to tell you the truth. And the truth is pretty horrible. And, you know, as we kids in a war zone, no one was asking us how we really felt or we didn't have therapists or, I mean, there was a counselor at school, but no one had time for that.

You were just, you were just surviving. So when you have this gorgeous, beautiful George Schaeffer, who was the director, he was like, you know, he did all the live Hallmark Hall of Fames. He was a real throwback, you know, and that was the first time he called me Jerry. Hey, Jerry, you know, I thought what is happening? This man, I felt very seen and people were listening to me and I thought, whoa, this is really special. And then when we got on set and we were actually doing the filming, George didn't really talk about much stuff. You know, just instinctively I sort of knew what to do. And I was a good girl in school, so learning the lines was easy enough, you know, because I was a good student.

But I mean, I just was me, I suppose, in many ways. I mean, that wee girl, when I think about that film, that wee girl had to see her father being shot in front of her, took an overdose. That's incredible what you experience. And then here, up to that point, and here you are also in Los Angeles, such a different place without your family. And what's incredible is that you go back, you know, back to Davis Flats, right? Which is, as you describe, like the wall literally, you know, at the border of, right, the Crossfire. And then what's so incredible is that you found your way back to the US to study theatre, right? You went to, was it UCLA?

[23:32] Geraldine Hughes: Yes, that's right. Yes. By the time we did To Lend a Crossfire, we'd moved actually from Davis Flats to a wee house just a few minutes away, and that was beside the Peace Wall. And so it was about five years later that I went to UCLA. I applied and got in, and George and two of the producers who I'd kept in touch with always said that they'd pay for my education if I got into further education. So they paid for my classes, and then I worked many different jobs to pay for my life. And yeah, I mean, it was a big, big journey. And it took me many years to find my feet and to figure out who I was. Actually, really, to be honest with you, I had 16 years in LA, but it wasn't really until I came to New York that I felt that I would really have a chance in this business.

[24:23] Jeryl Brunner: Really? Yeah. And you've played so many characters, so many eclectic parts. Is there a role that you're aching to play? Is there?

[24:30] Geraldine Hughes: Oh, God. Or is that too hard? Or is that to be written?

[24:37] Geraldine Hughes: That's too hard a question. Do you know, I just, well, I just saw Death of a Salesman the other night.

[24:42] Jeryl Brunner: Oh, yeah.

[24:43] Geraldine Hughes: I mean, I never thought I wanted to do that play. And I don't think I could, but Laurie Metcalf, what she did with that role. And I just was, I thought, yeah, you know what? I'm, one day I could, I might, might want to do that. I really want to do some American parts, you know, because I do British and Irish plays a lot. And I'd really love to do some American material in it. I'd really love to do some American material on stage.

[25:15] Jeryl Brunner: I'd love to see your Linda Loma. The attention must be, I can't lie.

[25:20] Geraldine Hughes: Oh, God. That wrecked me out. It was stunning.

[25:24] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah. Is there something you wish you could tell that little girl growing up in pre, your film career, pre coming to America? And what surprised you most about the U.S. when you first got there? I can't even imagine, you know, coming to at 12.

[25:46] Geraldine Hughes: Well, the wee girl, before she came here, I would tell her, I would tell her it's okay to speak up, to speak up for herself. I think that's something that I've learned much, much later, only really sort of recently in my life. That's it's, it's okay to speak up. It's important to speak up. Sometimes speaking up has consequences that aren't great. But if you, to speak up gracefully for things that matter is really important. But that wee girl, for some reason, always knew she was going to be okay. I do want to remind her that she is okay now and that all that's over. But yeah, to speak up, I think would be the thing I'd say to her because she was terribly shy and didn't feel like she deserved a voice.

[26:43] Jeryl Brunner: And what was it like for you when you first saw the U.S. especially?

[26:50] Geraldine Hughes: Oh, my God. Is there something that stands out for you?

[26:53] Geraldine Hughes: Yes. I will tell you, I haven't thought about this in a long time. I remember we were on a TWA plane and it was, it was almost empty, I remember, so we could all lie, you know, it was a 10, 11, 12 hour flight then from, from Dublin to L.A. and we all had a good sleep. But I remember, I feel like I remember coming down steps, whether we might have come down the steps onto the tarmac off that plane. And I have this memory of this wall of heat and that everything looks sort of yellow, like everything had a tint on it. Like I thought to myself, this is like an American sun tint or something. And everyone was so tan and had white teeth and just, and just everything was like, but even when I think about it, just, you know, you could, there was McDonald's and there was Coca-Cola and there was roller skates, roller boots. And it was just magic. It was like this magical place of colour and heat.

[28:10] Jeryl Brunner: Yes, Abraham.

[28:11] Geraldine Hughes: My dog agrees.

[28:13] Geraldine Hughes: Abraham, who's named after Abraham Lincoln, a very fine president. The writing is so beautiful. I might have to do it again. People keep asking me. And I suppose it's still, unfortunately, terribly relevant.

[28:25] Jeryl Brunner: Yes.

[28:27] Geraldine Hughes: But there's so much hope and beauty.

[28:29] Jeryl Brunner: Yes, yes, exactly.

[28:32] Geraldine Hughes: There's so much hope and redemption and peace in it.

[28:35] Jeryl Brunner: And thank you so much for taking the time.

[28:37] Geraldine Hughes: Of course.

[28:38] Jeryl Brunner: You're welcome. Thank you.

[28:47] Jeryl Brunner: The theme song was written by Tom McGovern.

[28:51] Jeryl Brunner: This episode was produced by Alice Stroud.