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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpm.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the wrong one died. I'm the wrong one died. Welcome to the

[0:30] Mike Abrams: run, get died. The podcast, break down the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. You will be seeing her in New York, New York, which is opening on Broadway on april 26 but before that, she was Rumpel teaser in the 2016 Broadway revival of cats. So welcome Haley fish and thank you for joining me. Hello. Happy to be here. I'm excited to hear a little bit about the new show, but more importantly, to talk about rumple teaser, because I have, I have a lot of new thoughts on that after talking to a couple different cast members and like, I think my thoughts have evolved on rumble Tuesday, okay,

[1:11] Mike Abrams: differently. Yeah. I mean, exactly, yeah. We're gonna talk about how the dance, all the dance choreography, and all the stuff that I know nothing about, I'm gonna get, yeah, exactly. We're gonna talk about the backstart. Let's start though with your history with cats. So this was your Broadway debut?

[1:25] Speaker 2: Yes, I made my Broadway debut as rumble teaser right out of college. I went to NYU. I grew up watching the what year was it? 1998 Okay, yeah, yeah, the 1998 movie. I can't remember the first time I saw it, but I definitely saw it more than once, and then when I was I think maybe in sixth or seventh grade, I went to an art school. I'm from Kentucky. I'm from Lexington, Kentucky. I went to an art school, and I was a dance major, and in middle school, the high school was doing a production of Cats, and my dance teacher was choreographing it, and so somehow she convinced them that she needed some of her dancers who were in middle school at the time to be in that production of Cats. So we were just kittens, I don't know, not a name, no name, no character, no no real understanding of the plot or the lore. We did. We were in peaks and polls, and that was it. Oh, that's okay. And that was it. She just needed more people, I guess. But what's funny about that production is that there are a couple of people. Lexington, Kentucky is like, this great arts town. There's a lot of theater, there's a lot of art. It's where University of Kentucky is, I guess, just a lot of young people being there all the time. There's, it's an art hub. But that particular production of Cats, they're people like, I have friends who you know, like Jacob Yates, who now conducts and plays in Hadestown and all over the place. I think he's doing walking with bubbles up. Broadway, Jess Hendy, also cats person, and he was in the show. He was in that production of Cats from Lexington. Wow, yeah. Colton Ryan, who's the lead in New York. New York, also from Kentucky in my grade, one of my friends from when I was child. Wow, yeah. Anyway, a little, I guess, a little back history about Lexington and cats too. So you

[3:33] Mike Abrams: did it as a middle schooler, yeah, as a middle schooler, I have questions about high schools doing it, I guess. But seems

[3:40] Speaker 2: positively hilarious. Well, I mean, yeah, it was, but I will say I'm pretty sure that the Mungo Jerry rumple teaser, it was two boys. Interesting. It was two boys. I'm pretty sure do they

[3:53] Mike Abrams: do the cartwheel section?

[3:54] Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, I I want to say yes, because how do you do that number without but I can't remember for sure. I can. I can always ask,

[4:05] Mike Abrams: is there a video of this? Oh, God, I don't know. Like, a YouTube performance. I don't know. I mean, this, this, this was, this is like, like, handheld camcorder days.

[4:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like 2006 or seven or something like that. Yes, there's no, like, iPhone footage for it was, it was definitely the YouTube era. I don't know when that actually began. YouTube is 2009 Okay, so not 2006 maybe

[4:27] Mike Abrams: I should know this. But

[4:28] Speaker 2: you know, when everyone is obsessed with marketing, just people just make content for YouTube, 2005 2006 so it was, it was around them, but I'm not, I'm not sure if we have a bootleg. You should, everyone should look up the SCAP of bluegrass slime tutorial, cats. Okay,

[4:46] Mike Abrams: so, okay, so you do it. You're watching the 1998 movie as a dancer. You get to be in peaks and polls. And then do you think about it again, like, you know, obviously you know you're progressing towards this career. Yeah. Is that something where it's like, that cat's dance number, is part of this? Or is it just like, Oh, that was one thing you did. Like, how does that lead into a like, I think more about when you get to do your Broadway debut and you get this, like, there's definitely someone who's like, Okay, this is a job, and I'm really excited. And there's others who's like, this was my dream room. Yeah.

[5:15] Speaker 2: I mean, it is. I think you'll hear a lot of dancers say it's, it's kind of a dream come true because we grew up watching it, which is true. But, you know, there are a lot of things I think that I grew up, you know, watching or thinking about or loving so much, and then it's like, oh, my god, I can't believe this is how it's who knows? Who knows if it was that influence from childhood that got me to this place where now I'm in the right room at the right time. You know? I don't know. I don't know how Woo, woo, we can go with it. But I don't think I really thought about it. I knew I remember when cats opened because I was a replacement. So I joined summer 2017 but they opened in 2016 and I was doing a non ex summer stock. I was still in college, doing a non ex summer stock in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, with honestly now some of my best friends, you kind of bond for life people in that situation. But I remember thinking or hearing like, oh yeah, cats open tonight or whatever, and thinking like, Man, I think that would be really fun. That would be that just like something to dance like that hard all the time. That would be really fun. And then I saw it in November of that of 2016 I'm pretty sure, yeah, because they this is okay. My journey to getting to making my Broadway debut is kind of wild. I was in college. I went to school at NYU, so I was here in town. And, you know, they post the auditions that are going to happen on playbill.com and it was my friend melody, who eventually ended up doing the tour as well, was like, hey, they are. They're having their big six month call, casting call for cats. We should go and non act. You have to put your name on a list. They don't know if they're gonna see you. I saw the show in November, and thought I could be in this that looks really fun like, I think I would love to do that, particularly the Rumpel teaser stuff, just because you get a number, yeah, I'm saying, and I auditioned, and it was like a full week of callbacks. And Andy really loves a boot camp style. You know, felt like summer camp. You just kept coming back the next day with all your new friends. You been there with and but it wasn't for anything. They were like, we'll put you in a file. You know, we don't have any tracks opening up. And then four or five months later, I got called in for Victoria, and my friend Claire booked it from that but, you know, Claire and I were on the stage at the Neil Simon, partnering for, like, the very, very last like bit of callback for that, which was insane. I was in a Broadway house. I was like, how did I get here? You know, learning partnering and stuff on the stage, on the raked stage at the Neil Simon. And then a month later, they called me back in for Rumpel teaser stuff, which was throughout that whole callback process, was my favorite thing that I had done so far. And it was so nerve wracking, yeah, because I wasn't nervous through any of it, but when it came to that final callback of rumble teaser, I was like, I just want it so bad. It's so fun. I want to do this so bad. And Lindsay, a casting director, even said, I think she's nervous, I'm so nervous, but it all worked out. But that that, that, that is my journey into

[8:53] Mike Abrams: casting. You make my debut. Yes, I made my debut. How, how nerve wracking is that first day?

[8:57] Speaker 2: Weirdly, not, not at all. I mean, it is, it was, it was. I can only speak for myself. I don't know about other people and how they experience these, these moments, but I, for me, auditioning is always the most, most nerve wracking thing. There's something about being in a room with only a few people doing your thing that just feels so like, I don't know, but I could do it for 1000s of people, and I not nervous at all. It's

[9:26] Mike Abrams: so interesting, as someone who's never auditioned or even been in, like, I've been in one thing in my life as a child growing up, I can think I hear that, where it seems like I feel like I'd be way more nervous than that, because your lights on people just judging you and steering. It's like a, for me, a sports tryout versus the game is less it's a little bit less nerve wracking, because a game that's like, you know, the lights are down, you can't really see the audience most of the time. Yeah, you're just doing your stuff that you've worked and prepared for. Yeah, exactly in detail, versus the, you know, the tryout. The, you know, the Yeah, that's exactly right, yeah. It's, I get it. I never really thought about it from that angle. It's really the,

[10:07] Speaker 2: you know, at the performance you've already gotten the job. You don't have anything left to prove. You never have anything to prove. You know, that's also a mindset that you have to work on all the time. But you know, at that point you've got the job. This is your role. This is your thing. You get to tell the story now. So there's that level of Oh no. These people are looking at me and judging me and deciding if I can do this or not, is just not there. Yeah. And I think that's the most nerve wracking part, yeah. So

[10:39] Mike Abrams: let's talk about the story you're now telling your story. What story? Well, okay, let's start. Let's start there. That's the joke with cats. I mean, totally. That's how this, how this podcast was founded, which was like me trying to add one or write one, if you were on your debut. Family is coming. Friends are coming. How are you describing the pot? Like, what are you telling them? Um, actually, did you tell them? Like, no one prepped me for the show? That was my my challenge with this is I went totally knowing nothing but punch lines. Well,

[11:12] Speaker 2: I didn't Okay, so my parents, I didn't really have to my mom and my step

[11:15] Mike Abrams: dad, I guess I saw you in middle school, so they

[11:19] Speaker 2: okay, yes, but my mom was a dancer. My stepdad is a composer for TV and film, you know, like he's also been a performer at some point in his life, and he saw cats, but they both saw cats, like the original cats. And so it's one of those things, like, if you've seen it, you just kind of understand there's, like, no way to really explain it. Were

[11:42] Mike Abrams: they fans? No. So they didn't like it. So they're like, but now my step dad definitely

[11:46] Speaker 2: did not. He was like, that was the weirdest night of my life, and a cat hit me on the top of the head as they ran through the aisle. And I was like, work. But like, you know, we were given liberty, like Colton would steal people's shoes sometimes, like, you were allowed to, just like, there are some times when we're like, did we cross a line?

[12:07] Mike Abrams: This is pre pandemic. You're doing

[12:10] Speaker 2: pandemic. Green eyes. I think someone stole some like, M, M's from somebody once and just like, ate them in front of them in the audience, whatever. Why not? We're cats. They're kind of jealous, yeah,

[12:22] Mike Abrams: so you didn't prep them?

[12:23] Speaker 2: No. Well, I know I didn't have to prep them. I also, you know, I don't I Okay. Well, the example would be like, if I had gone home to Kentucky and I saw, like, my high school friends or something, that they didn't do theater. And I was like, what is it about? I think my answer would be like, Oh, God, I don't know. There's a bunch of cats. You meet them. It's all about being reborn. You know? It's never mind. Actually, I teach the Jellicle Ball to like kids in dance class, and this is how I explain it, where I'm like, you've we've come together in this one special night there's a full moon. Call it the Jellicle moon, and we've all met to decide who gets to be reborn into their new life. And then you just spend the rest of the night meeting every single every candidate in their song. So you don't

[13:17] Mike Abrams: tell the dance students that it's an orgy. The ball is an orgy? No, why they're children? No, I have major issues with children seeing the show as, like, I know two children going to see the tour tonight.

[13:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't mention the orgy part.

[13:33] Mike Abrams: I just like, it's so it's as I've learned more 100 plus episodes in versus what my explanation was, you're seeing the weirdest version of The X Factor, like, you're seeing a trippy version of The X Factor, because I saw Leona Lewis, and I'm aware that that's what sparked that, but I'm like, Yeah, each cat's going up one by one in front of a judge, yeah, to win Absolutely. On one night, it's the finale. We're at the finale, and I've got like 12 candidates that are there, yeah? So that's how I explained it, yeah. Then I learned a lot more about it. And I'm like, wait a second, there's a lot more going on here, not necessarily for plot, but like, the balls in orgy and Victoria's dance are her coming of age and demeters being abused? And like,

[14:16] Speaker 2: Well, yeah. And there's, there's always a ton of stuff that, like, Did you under? Did you leave after the first time you saw it? Did you leave and understand any of those plot points? Yeah, but that's that's sort of the thing like there. There are all sorts of things that we are told that inform our performances, that it doesn't necessarily matter if the audience knows it or not. It just They just know that whatever is happening in front of them is honest or true or whatever.

[14:41] Mike Abrams: That's why this exists. My podcast exists because I can ask all those other questions, which is what I think makes the show kind of great, and why I think there's such a massive super fan following. Because those super fans can go multiple times and pull a different thing out. Yeah, as someone who's only seen it a handful of times, like on stage. The last time when I saw the most recent tour after building this podcast for so long, I was like, blown away. I was like, whoa. I did not realize the staging was like this, and I didn't pick up that now that I know now I know too much. It's like, almost dangerous. It's like, I went too far. I went too far on the other side. But now I know too much to also then be confused again. But I do think, like the average fan walks out and says, that was some really cool dancing. That was some really great singing, yeah. Oh, weird, yeah.

[15:25] Speaker 2: No, you can't deny, you can't deny the the talent that you see on stage. I mean, it is truly, uh, I'm glad it was my first Broadway show, because I was like, and this is just how hard Broadway is. This is what it takes eight shows a week, absolutely killing yourself up there two and a half hours straight of dancing. And I'm glad I was only 22 because that's not what it's like. It is never that hard. That is, like, probably the hardest thing I'll ever do in my life. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. It's really rare that as as a female dancer, I you know, and Rumpel teaser was, like, pretty tomboyish, so she danced with the boys a lot. It's rare, if, like, almost doesn't exist, other than in this show, that a girl would be dancing like with the boys and doing all the jumps and the turns and and I love that. That's I love doing that. But yeah, you know, I am also a show girl who wears heels and does kick lines and, you know, cutesy little tap numbers now too. Yeah,

[16:26] Mike Abrams: I the part with rumble teaser, because when I first saw the show, that was pretty much the one thing I remember, like, deeply, was that number. It's a good number. I also figured out part of that's probably why is the show is very overwhelming on stage a lot of the time, and your number is, like, one of the only times during the whole show where it's like, it's just YouTube, and so it's like, you get the spotlight, the focus, but also, as an audience member, it's like, I didn't know anything about the twins before this podcast, and then I was like, Wow. I did not realize the twins turn first, and the twins do all this stuff and all those things. And it's it is so fascinating to like, see that, but for you all, it's like, you got your song. You're singing your name over and over again. The whole everything is like everybody's looking at you in that moment. So I

[17:12] Speaker 2: would also say, I feel like the narrative is pretty clear at that point. You're like, we get

[17:16] Mike Abrams: it. They steal stuff, yeah? But, and it's also like, it's kind of a little kitschy of like fun, and they pull some parts through that so toward

[17:23] Speaker 2: the beginning of the first act, when maybe your brain hasn't smoothed over yet. So, you know, there are lots of things working in our favor.

[17:33] Mike Abrams: That is true. And I think, yeah, I mean, it's such a fun number, too. It's the one that was stuck in my head for weeks after the show. And still, like, when I saw the show again, the one that was singing after, which is, I think, kind of strange, because I think most people would be memory, and I'm like, nope, Mongol teaser me.

[17:49] Speaker 2: It's constantly Jones. Really, okay. The reason is busted for Jones. That's when I was making a quick change into my we have, like, a little costume change before Mongo rump, and that's the only time that I'm not on stage, that we are not on stage. And so I went and I saw my friend, melody in the tour, and I hadn't heard the music, you know, seen any of the shows since our closing night and and I had done it for so long, you know, it's like in the I started to get nervous during the it was like, Pavlovian, I heard Buster for Jones, and I was like, sweating, and the audience was like, here it comes, because our numbers next. So maybe that's why Buster for Joan. It's also, I mean, I love that number. It's

[18:33] Mike Abrams: cute that you, I think are in the minority. It's just silly. I don't

[18:39] Mike Abrams: uh, bus for Jones is currently, it's cut from the Royal Caribbean 90 minute version, and is generally one of the like, I think they're that cat is up there in least favorite, when I asked favorite and least

[18:52] Speaker 2: favorite, yeah? Because it's just, it's just about a well, the movie also didn't do it justice, either. Did they do it in the movie they, well, it's James Gordon. Yeah, that's right. Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah.

[19:03] Mike Abrams: Well, they did a version of it. I enjoyed bus for Jones only in the sense that, like, I don't think, I think I just misread this, but it says, like, the whole thing is about how he goes to gentlemen's clubs, which I think in London, is a different term than it means

[19:16] Speaker 2: in the United States, not, not like those kind of clubs. I interpreted it, remember American

[19:23] Mike Abrams: version of that. And I was like, that just makes this character way funnier. And so I was like, this may like, there's a crime,

[19:31] Speaker 2: there's a dystopian version of cats that I don't think they would ever let anyone make, because it's the production is under like, lock and key has to be done a certain way every single time

[19:43] Mike Abrams: I have thoughts, I have a lot of ways to write cats too. Yeah, and I there's, there's parody. There's been parodies, for sure. I've seen there's one here recently, right before the pandemic, there's one, I think, actually, I think right after, I didn't get to see either of them, but I heard they were fantastic. Um, but there, they had to stay away from it because of the amount that they're allowed to do with what's allowed. Okay, I want to talk about rumble teasers, plot. What's her backstory? Her

[20:14] Speaker 2: backstory? I mean, okay, to be fair to myself, it's been a minute since I thought about this.

[20:21] Mike Abrams: No, this doesn't leave you. I know cats say this. This is still somewhere deep down in your brain.

[20:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, okay. So, okay, so her plot, her backstory, she's, I don't know. She's just a troublemaker, she's, she's definitely tomboy. She is, like, really crushing hard on mango, which some people are like, You guys are siblings. And I'm like, no, let me ask

[20:48] Mike Abrams: you, just I'll ask you some of the questions then, so not siblings, the, okay, the trying to date. Are you together, or is it a crush? Crush? Definitely. Okay, so you're not, you haven't started dating. It's more of like your friendship that you hope progresses. Yeah, at

[21:04] Speaker 2: least that's my version of it, my version of it. But that's, that's the thing. It's like, they give you your three words, and I was also a replacement. So I my, I learned the whole show in two and a half weeks, and then I had my put in, and then I made my Broadway debut, psychotic, I know, but, you know, I didn't have the full five, six week rehearsal process, two week boot camp, crawling around on the floor, character development, you know, as a replacement, there's already kind of like a blueprint for you to step into, And then you make it your own. But that that is, that's my version. That's the version that that was like, very potent. So I think

[21:47] Mike Abrams: one of the, do you see any parent figures from the other cats, for you and or you, either you or manga,

[21:58] Speaker 2: I was, I feel like it's like jelly Lauren, because you look at like the color and the markings on the different cats, and, you know, like jellies and orange tabby or no, oh, God, you might have to get this part out, because I'm like, oh, remember, I don't know. I mean, you tell me what are, what are some of the theories of parentage,

[22:19] Mike Abrams: the one that the current tour is going around. So Brian and Taryn, who played manga and rump, I actually love this. I hadn't thought about it, but they're basically playing that manga is Jenny's son. Jenny Annie dots, Yes, Jenny DOT's son, and that rumble teaser is trying to basically win over her, like the mom's approval, so they can be together. That's cute. I was like, that's fun, right? I hadn't thought about it from that angle. I really like

[22:43] Speaker 2: that. Yeah, no, I I hadn't thought about that either. Obviously, doing it every night. But I think that the the version Andy's version that we were really toying around with is that Mongo and rump are young teens who are kind of like falling in on the wrong side and are helping out the cavities sometimes, and like they're they're just on the path toward destruction. Um, so the reverence for any, uh, adult cat is just sort of not there, except for rump. Really loves Gus. I'll say that, okay, because I really, really loved Gus. We're right in the front just watching Gus tell his tell his tale at the beginning. And

[23:33] Mike Abrams: let me ask him a cavity question. Okay, ask me. Ask, do you think? Like I'll give part of the my thought process on it. I'm curious if it's right or wrong. Is that I thought, I always thought mango general police are like, I'm like, not really trying to be into crime. We're more of like the stuck up, mischievous parents, rich parents, kids are kind of doing what they what they what they want because they can, versus actually trying to be part of crime. Yeah. Or are they working their way into macavities, like legitimate crime gang, and they're just like low level employees trying to build their way up, like, which version of is it for you?

[24:09] Speaker 2: I think that Mungo is probably closer to the Macavity side of things, like actually going bad rum really has a crush on Mungo wants to be in on all that, but isn't at her root and at her core, she's changing her personality for a boy, yeah. But I mean, you know, they're kids, and they're really they're also trying, for some reason, as teenagers trying, like, throwing their hat in the ring of like, it's time for us to be reborn into a new life when

[24:47] Mike Abrams: so but did you play that as like, this is my chance to be reborn? Or was it like, I kind of interpreted your number as like, a disruption, like tuggers, where it's like, it's kind of like, all right, let me just show you what we can do. Like, I mean,

[25:01] Speaker 2: it is a disruption, because before there's all sorts of rustling and a police siren and everyone, the reason we're on stage by ourselves is because everyone thought it was Macavity, and they run away, okay? And it's us being little jerks, and we have, like, the loot, our little bags full of stuff. There was a siren. We just robbed a place, and we showed up to the party and scared everybody away. And we think that's hilarious, and we're now, it's sort of this breaking of the fourth wall. We're not performing for anybody that's there are no cats around us. It's for the audience, truly. And we're like, what's up? This is who

[25:39] Mike Abrams: we are, yeah. But that's kind of why I didn't think you were auditioning, because it's like you're not performing from a judge. There

[25:44] Speaker 2: are moments in the ball. This is when, this is what I was talking about with. There are things that we are told in rehearsal and that motivate us to do certain bits of choreography and things that the audience not doesn't necessarily like, think about, yeah, or notice there's

[26:03] Mike Abrams: definitely fans that do well, that's the most people aren't going

[26:07] Speaker 2: to there. There's a moment in the ball when, and I think you're right, I don't think it's like, truly motivated, like we want to be reborn, but that's what the night is about. And it's sort of us just centering ourselves and trying to impress Deuteronomy, who has all of the power. But there, you know, there's, there are a couple of moments. I don't even know what this section is called, but we Mongo and rump come forward and like, do a little dance specifically for Deuteronomy. And, God, I wish I could remember this cast name. It definitely a kitten. Jacob Carr played him on Broadway, lots of toe touches. Tumble. Brutus No, not. Tumble. Brutus kitten. Alanzo, no, not. Alonzo, carbuckety. Car buckety. Thank you. Thank you. See is 100 plus episodes. 100 plus episodes. This is my Yeah, I I often think about what my brain got rid of when I, like, put a new Broadway show into it, because there's no space for all. Yeah, what information have I forgotten? I feel

[27:16] Mike Abrams: about that way with this podcast. It's like, what have I lost? Because I've learned way more about all these cats than I anybody needs to

[27:23] Speaker 2: possibly know. Anyone ever needed to know. But, you know, there's a moment car buckety will come through, and he'll do a bunch of toe touches and things for Deuteronomy, and then we'll come through, actually, I think it's in reverse. We come through first we do a little dance, car body. Car buckety comes through and steals our spotlight. And that's like a what the moment, wow, which no one would have ever noticed, except for us, except for I would get the note all the time. That's like, it's too angry. I'd be like, Well, yeah, stealing my spotlight, yeah, should be mad. Should be mad, taking a chance. Yeah, I

[27:59] Mike Abrams: love that. That's those are the moments that like, again, if you go for people that are like the super fans, that do go multiple times, they're watching just one cat, like they're gonna watch just one person's performance to see those things, whereas, like, again, your moment is one of the few moments where everyone gets to focus on just YouTube.

[28:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, I had someone really, really sweet, really sweet. At the stage door, they were like, oh my god, we just we couldn't stop watching you. We really loved your performance. I was like, Oh, thank you so much. And they're like, Yes, and your facial expressions just reminds me so much of clowning. I was like, okay, yes. Which I take that as a compliment, but also I'm like, wow, I guess I was made for musical theater because, because I am a clown, actually, we have all the face paint on, I don't know, but that

[28:55] Mike Abrams: I have a lot of questions on. I don't even know what clowning is. It's like a specific I'm

[28:59] Speaker 2: not I'm gonna someone will have something to say about how I've described it, but it's like you can go to clown Hugh Jackman has been to clowning school. It's like learning. It's like a style of performance, learning how it's like taking, like, burlesque or something. It's like a style of performing that has all of these, I'm not doing special expressions is like

[29:20] Mike Abrams: a big part of it. Yeah.

[29:21] Speaker 2: I guess, I guess, I think it's over exaggerated.

[29:28] Mike Abrams: Um, storytelling. I live in the world. I live in such a different world. Humor, completely different world from from this. We'll be back for more of this catastrophe after a short break. You. Okay, let's hard pivot from hard pivot from conning to to New York. New York. I want to hear, I know you're you know you're in the hasn't opened yet, like when we're recording this here early on, like, what is for everyone? Who's in the city gonna be able to come to see like, what can they expect from this show? It's gonna be the best

[30:05] Speaker 2: thing you see all year. Wow, love it. Yeah, I'm honestly welling up with tears every day in rehearsal because it's so special. It's it's a love letter to New York. It really is. It feels it's the new classic. It's not a revival, but the time period, it's in the 40s, late 40s, after World War Two, and it feels like the golden age of Broadway. But, you know, we're making it now. And so the things, it's just, it's really special, and it's all about the city. And, yeah, I, you know, I don't want to give too much away, because it's brand new,

[30:45] Mike Abrams: totally. So how much? Because, you know, there's obviously the movie, yes, how much of the like for someone that sees the movie, it's new, it's not just the movie. How much are they going to recognize versus how much is going to be like, net new? Like, should somebody see the movie first, or is it going to be does even matter?

[31:00] Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I have not seen the movie. It's actually really hard to find. I tried to watch it before rehearsal started, and it's really hard to find slash. I just it didn't exist anywhere. I don't, I didn't, I didn't even know where to find it, to purchase it, to watch. Do you know what I mean? I don't think it streams. I think it's like a physical,

[31:20] Mike Abrams: go get a DVD, and

[31:24] Speaker 2: that advanced, you know? But I do know that this is a film that, like older generations really love De Niro, right? Yep, yep, yeah, a really young De Niro and Liza Minnelli. But, you know, it's, it's loosely based. It's inspired by the film. But I don't, I mean, I can't say version. It's not a stage version of the film, yeah, but again, I haven't seen the film. It's just what they said. And I said, Great, I'm so glad I didn't even watch

[31:55] Mike Abrams: it. So there's, I don't want to have you give it away, but is there any moments from your rehearsal, anything else, like, you know, for everyone walking into cats, they don't know what they're gonna go see, right? Is there anything that you should be like, Okay, you're gonna love this one part or be ready for this thing? Like, what's the one like moment? Or, can you not give anything away? I'm not,

[32:12] Speaker 2: I'm not. There are definitely moments, moments, but I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not even telling, like, I haven't even told my best friend or my boyfriend. I want it to be a true surprise, because it is. I mean, you will recognize every location that we go to in the story, because it's New York and so, I mean, it's a love letter to New York. It's about New Yorkers. It's just like it. I mean, I personally think this is one of the greatest places in the world, and we certainly think that in the show. And I don't know, yes, there are, there are, I'm so excited for certain things to be on stage, like, I can't wait for our sits probe, I can't wait to hear our music played by the orchestra. I can't I mean, the set is gonna be crazy amazing. Yeah, it's at the St James,

[33:01] Mike Abrams: right? Such a cool scene. Yeah,

[33:02] Speaker 2: it's at the St James, which I've never worked at the St James, but I was at the Schubert across the street on 44th for Hello Dolly. And it feels it's such an iconic Broadway Street. You know what? I mean? It's, it's kind of narrow every, every, there are so many shows just on one block. It's all kind of crammed in there. You're like, yeah,

[33:24] Mike Abrams: it's got that, like, old school,

[33:26] Speaker 2: yeah, the old school sign, everything in lights outside, yep. Well, I

[33:32] Mike Abrams: cannot wait to see it. And then it will link how to go find tickets and everything for everybody who's in New York, who's fortunate to be able to go see you all pumped for the show and so cool to to hear. I always kind of joke, is there any other cats in it? Any other former cats? Just you? I,

[33:48] Speaker 2: I think it's just me, actually, the only cat, for the first time in a long time, yeah, right. Because

[33:53] Mike Abrams: usually, like the other shows you've done, you've been with many other previous cats.

[33:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm really thinking hard, because I don't want to, yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so we have some, some older, uh, like Broadway legends, that have been in the business for a long time, but I don't think either of them are in cats. So I think it's just me,

[34:17] Mike Abrams: Legend of cats. Well,

[34:23] Mike Abrams: okay, let's do some rapid fire cats questions to get us to our most important question, which I know you're gonna agree with me on. So I'm excited for that most important question, who, if you could go on for one night only in cats, any track, male, female, forget if it's like you could do it, you could sing it, you could dance it, just if you could just do one night, who would you want to go on it? Oh,

[34:44] Speaker 2: bomb Bally arena, for sure. Do you get do people say that a lot? I

[34:48] Mike Abrams: feel like so it's a wide range of answers for this. And what I've noticed, like the psychology behind I've noticed, is people either pick something that's so far away from what they could like do. It's like, not them at all. So it's like, I want to go do that, or it's like, exactly them, and they want to do that type of track. Yeah,

[35:07] Speaker 2: I I'm too short for bomb. I'm I'm only five three, and height has a lot to do with what age you can play in theater, which is crazy. But like, if you're short you like, unless everyone's short around you. It's probably not, not going to be an adult on stage, but Bomb, bomb. It would just because it'd be fun to dance and and sing and like, do all of that. Yeah,

[35:32] Mike Abrams: two very combinations. Honestly,

[35:34] Speaker 2: no, I would, if it was a male track, I would pick skimble shanks.

[35:39] Mike Abrams: Symbol, shanks. Yeah. I mean,

[35:48] Mike Abrams: I think I agree, trying to think what else is in there, memory. I mean, I agree it would be. Everyone's very well aware that, like, yeah, memory's Great. I there's iconic outside of, but I Yeah, it's a bot. I agree. Okay, who are your favorite and least favorite? Cats? Forget actors. Take actors out of it. Okay? Characters favorite

[36:25] Mike Abrams: again, this is gonna go well for my last question, it sure is,

[36:30] Mike Abrams: about Lee's favorite? I think that

[36:33] Speaker 2: Jenny Annie dots is, I think that's it. I think that it's Jenny Annie dots.

[36:36] Mike Abrams: I love you're not trying to win her approval. It's

[36:38] Speaker 2: like, no mama. And I think it's because she's, she's a tight wad, and she's, like, very prim, and I don't know, I think speaking specifically as like character, and also, like, I don't know, maybe my real life, I'm like, Yeah, I don't like that.

[36:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah, mom, character, relax. Yeah, yeah. You're very more rumble teaser than Jenny, yeah, definitely. Okay. What's your favorite song in the show?

[37:05] Speaker 2: Favorite song in the show? I already talked about Buster being, like, stuck in my head all of the time, but I think probably now I'm like, trying to, like, go through the show and think about the things that were really fun to sing. Okay, not skimble shanks. It's gonna be skimble shakes. It's fun to sing.

[37:22] Mike Abrams: Did you build? What part of the train were you did you build? I

[37:25] Speaker 2: was in the front holding I wasn't holding the light. 10th mile was holding the light. I think I had, like, an umbrella in the front. Okay. Spinning. Yeah, yeah. Nothing. Heavy. I remember Zach, who is my Mungo. I have this, like, huge metal wheel in the back, and he, like, stabbed himself in the leg. Was like, actually dangerous, yeah,

[37:50] Mike Abrams: that there's some parts of that that I'm like, it's, it's big, Yeah, huge. I was definitely,

[37:54] Speaker 2: I was in the front. I had, like, a little spinning enemy would just, yeah, okay, my

[38:01] Mike Abrams: fun question would be, which cat, since you're gonna be, you know, doing a New York love letter here in New York, New York, which cat do you think would be the best New Yorker? Oh,

[38:10] Speaker 2: nice. Ooh. Are we talking like that? I'm walking here New Yorker, or we wanna interpret it.

[38:18] Mike Abrams: I've thought a lot about this, and I have like, a bunch of different answers, depending on how you interpret it. Okay,

[38:24] Speaker 2: well, first and foremost, I think that rump would be a great New Yorker because she wouldn't take crap from anybody. I think that I agree with that. I think that jelly Lorem would be the good like new girl in town type energy. But, you know, obviously, she's older in the show, in in cats, but like she, you know what? I mean, she's got that, like, very sweet from a cornfield somewhere, moved to New York City, energy,

[38:57] Speaker 2: would be a really great New Yorker. And, like, work the drag scene.

[39:02] Mike Abrams: I think I placed a lot of these people in different parts of the city, which in Chelsea West Village, area, Greenwich area. I have Gus somewhere on the Upper East, just like maybe upper west. He's on one of those two sides of

[39:17] Speaker 2: town, because he's a theater cat. I think he's an upper west, okay, but I knew he was Upper East. Upper East, to me, is very old, very money. Yeah, that's bus to first

[39:27] Mike Abrams: East. Gus is West.

[39:35] Mike Abrams: yeah, yep, Grizz is. Grizz is definitely a New Yorker, but this is like, she's in a party, yeah, she's been here. She's, yeah, exactly her. She pays $30

[39:50] Mike Abrams: skimble is the one. I don't think could be in New York, because the MTA doesn't work. So he

[39:59] Mike Abrams: I think. You could have missed off police has got to be somewhere in

[40:03] Speaker 2: Okay. Can I take my answer back about favorite song? It's misto. And also a part that I would want to play is also misto. I, that was my I had a crush on the 1998 misto police from the movie,

[40:18] Speaker 2: yeah. Big crush. But like, specifically on the character most obvious, which I don't know what that says about me, and maybe I should go to

[40:28] Mike Abrams: therapy. But what cats in therapy could lead to? There's a lot, a lot there,

[40:40] Mike Abrams: I mean, we can keep placing that. I think bomb and Demeter and bomb are definitely in the city somewhere. They're probably living together in I'm trying to think there's, there's, like, an alanzo, like some of the kids, I think, are over in Murray Hill.

[40:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, the kids are definitely in Murray Hill. That's good. They're liquid.

[40:57] Mike Abrams: And then trying to think who else I've I did spend way more time thinking about this when I wrote it down, who am I missing? Mongorum

[41:05] Speaker 2: would be, like, on the Lower East Side. They're like, cool kids. Yeah,

[41:09] Mike Abrams: I had Victoria, like, in Lincoln Center. Like, she's definitely a joy yard or something. She's like, clearly she

[41:14] Speaker 2: is a Jr, yeah, she syllabub. Syllabub is, oh, yeah, syllabu is, like, possibly a reflection of Grizabella as, like a child. I don't know if anyone's ever talked about that as a whole thing, but I don't know that. Where would she be? She's, I think syllabu is on the Upper East Side

[41:39] Mike Abrams: for sure. Yeah, I could see that for sure. And then who are we missing? We've got, where's Old Deuteronomy.

[41:54] Mike Abrams: who's in the Bronx, anybody in the Bronx bronze, anybody in Brooklyn, who's in Williamsburg,

[41:59] Speaker 2: who is in Williamsburg, probably, like, carbuckety and tumble Brutus, yeah? Like, like, more of the teens are in, like, trendy Brooklyn, yeah, I feel

[42:08] Mike Abrams: like the twins are in, like, Long Island City.

[42:14] Mike Abrams: Hoboken. They're like, on the other side. They're kind of, like, in their

[42:16] Speaker 2: own honestly, because they're psychic and they can see the future. They're in the neighborhood that no one thinks, but it's about, it's on the come up, and they just know that they've

[42:25] Mike Abrams: already bought. They're gonna sell soon. Yeah, exactly the next one. Yeah. Okay, I got it all right. Let's get to the main question I've argued. I don't think Chris bill is the right Jellicle choice. So who are you gonna argue for? And let's, let's hear the reason why you're sending that person up.

[42:42] Speaker 2: I think it kind of goes without question that it's Gus. And if you've ever listened to his song, or watched Christopher Gurr, or honestly, any sweet old man like sing this song with a little palsy, why would you not choose Gus? Gus has been around, and he's sweet, and I've obviously had such a soft spot for old, older folks, but i don't know i i Obviously I understand the the the story of redemption, and why we choose Grizabella and why Victoria is the one the pure white, like she's like the representation of purity, and also, you know, her whole journey of loss of innocence on stage, whatever, whatever, whatever. I understand why we pick Grizz. But personally, I would have picked, guess I

[43:37] Mike Abrams: love that. It's like the Yeah, I get it, blah, blah, blah, but this is my choice. I'm

[43:41] Speaker 2: probably stronger with Grizabella. I think

[43:45] Mike Abrams: depends on how you interpret the heavyset later as well. Because, okay,

[43:49] Speaker 2: are you about to tell me that? Like, it's like, the What are you about to say?

[43:55] Mike Abrams: I The message is clear, the sense of, like, the redemption story and like, again, I'm gonna go back to my X Factor, her pre song package is going to be great, because you're going to get the whole like, look at what my how hard my life was, and then let me sing my memory song. And like, I have a compelling final performance at the end of the show before everyone opens up voting. So I get that, but I also, like, to me, it wasn't a like, necessarily reborn. It also felt like Old Deuteronomy is like, you're killing one of them. So I'm like, if you take the reborn part, I was like, which cat are we gonna murder? And my thing is, like, make her next year's choice, let her spend some time with her family. You get the whole redemption story. But then it's like, Hey, I'm gonna redeem myself. I'm gonna bring you back in. We're gonna accept you, and then it's just like and buy, versus being like, we're gonna redeem, I'm gonna accept you. Spend a year, go to some birthday parties, yeah, hang out with your kittens and your children that I'm sure are part of the tribe, yeah? And then go next year.

[44:58] Speaker 2: Yeah. There are also. So yeah, the whisperings of like, syllab is, yeah, Victoria, potentially, you know, like,

[45:08] Mike Abrams: it's like, hi and bye. That's my part that I'm like, you know, I can, I can buy the story arc. But why does she need to go right away? It is

[45:17] Speaker 2: a valid point and a good question. I in my mind, though, I always was taking it as, like, no, they will be reborn into their next life. So it's like they are shedding this, but

[45:29] Mike Abrams: then you're getting, you're gonna lose your mom and get like, Baby grades, which sings opening number, like you're gonna get a child version of your mother. Like, this seems like, again, like you're gonna, I

[45:38] Speaker 2: mean, the whole thing is like kind of an acid trip the whole time. I don't think we can play such practical rules. No, I've

[45:47] Mike Abrams: been trying. That's what I've been trying to do. I've been trying to put plot and story and like, very thoughtful moments to a very show that doesn't do

[45:55] Speaker 2: that high concept art, so with random plot points very

[46:01] Mike Abrams: much. So it's weird to me. The biggest, the biggest part of learning from this podcast is the the things that everyone accepts as fact in this show are some very strange things. I'm like, how is that? Like, we don't know this part of the plot, this is up for interpretation, but everyone is for sure that Demeter is being abused. I'm like, that's the one sort like, everybody's positive of it. So it seems like a little strange that we've just accepted certain parts of it. And sometimes I'm like, Really, that's the part we're gonna accept. Like, not a whole arc of a story, or what's happening here, or is this relationship here? It's like, Nope, we're gonna accept that part.

[46:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. But I think that a lot of that has to do with the physicality of the characters and how, you know what I mean, demeanor is very, like, nervous and skittish, and it's totally like, our whole and you're like, oh yeah. And I get that's okay, understand,

[46:53] Mike Abrams: I totally get it. It's just from someone who analyzes this purely from the pot store, from the writing versus the like. You know, I've met fans who are like, Oh my God, but that choreography, did you see that number? I'm like, Yeah, I don't know what that means. Like, I mean, I I saw it. It was, what did it

[47:08] Speaker 2: make you feel when you saw it? That's sort of, that's kind of like the dealings with when you, when you start looking at dance heavy pieces, because it's such a like, the highest form of expression, the most abstract form of expression. It's more about what it made you feel and think about, versus the hard line plot point. Yeah,

[47:30] Mike Abrams: no, I see what you're saying. I think the challenge for me as someone who doesn't have any background on it or ability to do any of it, is most of the time when I see it, it's it's bringing a plot point forward. It's like, hopefully helping with the plot point, or it's a dance number. I'm just like, that is incredibly talent. Like, what talent? I'm just usually saying it going like that takes an incredible amount of skill and practice and something that most people can't do. And so I'm usually walking away from, from it, from that standpoint of like that looks so hard, not like, and that's where I'm like, as, again, not a non dancer. It's same thing with singing. I'm like, a non singing. I when someone belts, I'm just like, I know I can't do that. Like, I know a lot of most people can't do that. Yeah, that's impressive. And so I see it from that standpoint, probably more. And maybe this is like, more of a judgment of like, the like, oh, it made me feel like, Oh, I got the part of that number that they're trying to get. Like, I'm not, choreography is going to go over my head, but I'm more of just like, wow. That was impressive. That was skillful. That took a lot of practice. That is peak dancing, of someone doing a skill that most people can't do.

[48:38] Speaker 2: That's that I feel like, that is a good that I feel like that's as someone who loves sports and grew up, you growing up watching a lot of sports, and to be I think that's like, a that's a very reasonable, probably very common experience watching. But then, like, you know me as an artist and like, but what did it make you feel? Did when someone sing that song didn't make the little hairs on your neck stand up, and it tapped into the your emotions. But it's also like, I think that's how I experience the world.

[49:09] Mike Abrams: It is well so and it's, it is fascinating being more involved in this community now with this podcast and other things I've done is like, I have friends who are theater people, yeah. And we're either performers, former performers, like, or just, like, very into formal. And there are some like, I have a friend that pretty much starts crying in every show and doing shows. I'm like, why are you crying? Like, why are you crying? Like, I don't, I don't get it's that same thing. It's like, they're having that exact emotional reaction to the dance number, the singing, yeah. And I'm much more of the like, I constantly reminding my like, deep Broadway friends being like, I am, you're from Lex, I'm from Indiana. I'm like, What is my like, random friend in Indiana who doesn't know anything? Like, is this gonna be enjoyable for them? And a lot of times it's like, that really amazing theater is great, but it's probably not what they are gonna enjoy. Uh, or that they want to see, because if they come to Broadway, they're gonna want to see something more funny and uplifting or, like, more musical.

[50:06] Speaker 2: It's not to see New York, New York. It's the show for you. Perfect. I mean,

[50:09] Mike Abrams: it's, it's going to be on that list. There are other things that are right now where I'm like, I've seen some really well done, dramatic, thoughtful, heavy theaters play. And I'm like, I don't think I should send my friend to that, you know, like, yeah,

[50:22] Speaker 2: you know, you're not gonna be like Leopold stat, go see that that

[50:26] Mike Abrams: was, yeah, it's amazing, amazing, but heavy and heavy. So I think that there is a little bit of the like, I go and even with cats, like I go in being like, I can't do it like that. Like, you're saying two and a half hours non stop dancing the whole time. The first time I saw it, I said, that is an athletic feat. Yes, beyond belief. And I didn't know about the rake stage at the time or any of this stuff. I just was like, I was exhausted watching you all, yeah. And that is, to me, like in a talent, a skill of, like, at the top level of the profession. And I kept going, like, that's like, going to a Rangers game or a Knicks game. I'm like, You're watching the best of the best do what they're doing. And something that, like, yeah, I could go try to dance cats. I could go try to play a basketball game or a hockey game, but I can't do it at that speed, at that skill, at that level, right? And that's kind of where, when I walked out of the show, I felt more of that yeah, then it was like, oh my god, the turns how technical are. Like,

[51:23] Speaker 2: I wonder. I mean, I wonder too, was that did that help or hurt the very loose plot that existed? Because maybe if there was a stronger plot, we'd be like, Oh, okay, yeah, no, obviously they're working so hard, but for this very obvious purpose, I don't know. Now I'm like, is there such a thing as too much dancing in a show?

[51:46] Mike Abrams: I think probably not. I think the question is, like, what people are going to see? And this is why, like, there's, I mean, you can't argue against cats to run for 42 years. Like, it's, yeah, no, truly. But there are other shows where I'm like, some other shows I saw that were really good, that closed really quickly. I'm like, I saw that there was missing mass appeal at times. And I'm like, I thought it was, it was good, but I know that, like, there's a lot of people I would go with that would just probably not enjoy that, right? So I think that there is a moment of that where the like, hearing from people who are very in the industry is different than hearing from the people very out of the under 300% 100% and I'm now blurring that line, and that's what makes it really fascinating for me. So anyways, that's a huge tangent. Yeah, I will say I did see a very heavy dance show that you were also in that did was very moved by in the sense of, like, wow. That is again, same thing. I was like, this is incredible dancing, loose plot. I felt more plot than cats, but still, much more of, like the plot being told through the dance numbers than it was through, like a storytelling of it.

[52:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely, also, and only gold at MCC Yes, also. Andy Blankenbuehler, yes. Like, truly stunning choreography, also one of the hardest things I've ever done, possibly, because I'm a little bit older now. But people have asked, like, what's harder? Cats are only gold? Actually, can't decide only goal was really tough. It was just non stop. We did not leave that stage, and I think we and you know, every time you're on the stage, if it's a heavy dance piece, you have to be laser focused on what your intention and your purpose is on stage, because you are yourself at a conceptual level, moving the story along in this way. So it has to be really specific, yeah. I mean, it's, I'm I count myself lucky that I got to be a part of it, but, yeah, that was also a crazy dance show.

[53:55] Mike Abrams: I think part of that is why you probably get even in the cats world, you get some like, I didn't get it, or I loved it, and I think some of it is that, and that's where, you know, what I think the beauty of theater is, is that doesn't have to be for everybody, no, and it probably shouldn't be, no. I

[54:11] Speaker 2: actually think that's a sign of of good art is, if it's pretty polarizing, some people will love it, some people will hate it. That's, that's it. I feel like I'm least, I'm the least interested in something that everyone's like, yeah, no, it's fine. It's fine. And most people are just like, Yeah, it's fine. Like, I don't know. I don't I don't care. I don't care about that anyone, something that people either love or they hate. That's exciting.

[54:35] Mike Abrams: Yeah? I mean, you're there's plenty of that out there right now too. I love it. That's so fun. Well, this has been amazing. I appreciate anybody that doesn't vote Grizabella. So thank you for continuing to help the numbers here at no

[54:50] Speaker 2: shade to Grizabella. Maybe Paris made me cry pretty much every night singing that song. It's unbelievable. But you know, if we were gonna. Go another direction. Obviously, it's Gus,

[55:01] Mike Abrams: yeah, I told maybe that i Her performance was almost made me change my mind, but it didn't. At the end of the day, it didn't, still I didn't. I told you that I cannot wait to see New York, New York. So we will link to how to go for everybody in New York who can make it, or anybody visiting should go see it. It opens on april 26 Yes, that's right. How can everyone else stay in touch with you? Social media. Social

[55:27] Speaker 2: media. Yeah, follow me on Instagram. I also, I should say this, I just went viral on Tiktok. I know I shared it. Yeah, baby. Like I've never made a Tiktok before in my life,

[55:38] Mike Abrams: but I wasn't your very first Tiktok, right? It was like there were two others,

[55:41] Speaker 2: but I wouldn't say that those were actually involved or engaged with what Tiktok is interested in or even about. But yeah, I just kind of dubbed the Super Bowl performance with the Jellicle Ball. And then someone asked for skimble Shanks, obviously. And did that one too, and both went viral. And I can say I now understand why people are addicted to social media. Because the morning I woke up, the day after I busted out, I was like, oh my god,

[56:16] Mike Abrams: yeah, yeah. So we will link your handles. Everyone can go find the viral tick tock. I also reposted that on tick tock, because this definitely made me laugh. I was like, the minute I saw, I saw your name too. I was like, Wait, was this you? Like, it was, I wasn't sure, because I didn't, like, hadn't followed you and seen because you hadn't posted much on that before.

[56:36] Speaker 2: Basically didn't exist. Yeah? I was just a voyeur. I was just there to watch, yeah, tick tock. And then I had one

[56:44] Mike Abrams: idea, and that's how it starts, and

[56:46] Speaker 2: that's how it starts. That's how it starts. You gotta have the idea first, and then influencers future, yeah, I'm waiting on my sponsorships and things. Hopefully,

[56:56] Mike Abrams: anybody that you that is listening to this, reach out. Yeah, thanks. Send a message, send some product or whatever. Yeah, whatever, whatever you want to reach out to my like, subscribe.

[57:07] Speaker 2: We can tell me, tell me what content you want to see next. Yeah. Well, this has been so fun.

[57:13] Mike Abrams: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, and thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Rock I died the podcast. Break down the cast atrophy to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you'll see the podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram and Tik Tok at their own cat died. Or checking our website, their own cat died.com. You.