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[0:00] Robert Bannon: Are you ready? It's The Roundtable with me, Robert Bannon. Welcome to The Roundtable, everybody. My name is Robert Bannon, and you're listening to us on Broadway World, the Broadway Podcast Network, iHeart, Spotify, wherever artists are talking about art, somebody who is an art maker, somebody who is a documentary filmmaker, somebody who has done theater productions that you know and love, or written musicals that have been all across this country and more. There's a show coming that we need to hear all about, and I think it's very exciting, and we're very honored. Somebody who has paved the way for theater in this country, in New York City, and as a whole, and has a lot of jobs. I don't know if Al sleeps. Maybe Al doesn't sleep. Maybe he's up all night, just a working man. Al, welcome to the show.

[0:52] Al Tapper: If I have a sleeping pill, I can sleep.

[0:54] Robert Bannon: See, you sleep. Then you just work for 20 hours and sleep for four.

[0:58] Al Tapper: Yes. Sleeping is very important. It's my most creative time. That's where it all comes together. How do you describe what you do?

[1:09] Al Tapper: Well, it depends on what it is that I'm doing. I've written a number of musicals. I've written books. I've produced movies, and I've also run businesses, real businesses. I don't think show business is business. Show business is fun, and it's wonderful, and it's a kick. I never think it's work, but it depends on what it is that I'm doing. I've written 11 shows, so I spend a great deal of my time coming up with ideas for shows or working with the artistic director of this theater, Tony Sportiello, who's a very talented guy, and we've written five shows together. What can I say? It's a matter of loving what I do.

[2:05] Robert Bannon: Absolutely, and it shows. I was reading about you. You went to Boston University, and you are a Massachusetts guy. You grew up in Massachusetts.

[2:16] Al Tapper: I grew up in Worcester, Massachusetts, and brought my kids up there and lived there for the first 40 years of my life before I moved to New York. I always came to New York because that's where all my writing is done in New York. Even though I'm from Worcester, I really think of myself as a New Yorker.

[2:33] Robert Bannon: You're a New Yorker. At 20 years old, you wrote your first musical. What made you realize you could? What was the inspiration to start being a writer of musicals?

[2:45] Al Tapper: Well, I wrote music when I was 10. My father wrote music, and so I would walk down the stairs upstairs of our house, and he'd be playing the piano. I didn't think it required any talent or skill to write music. I would sit at the piano, and I would just pick out a tune without having any lessons. I thought anybody could write music if they wanted to. When I was about 15, I realized it did require some skill and talent to do it, but in the beginning, it was just like learning a foreign language. It was something that he did, and I wanted him to be my pal, my father, and so I tried to do what he did, and that's how it all started.

[3:39] Robert Bannon: You know, it's incredible because then when you look at what you've done as a composer, a lyricist, a playwright, a producer, a filmmaker, if people know Sessions, National Pastime, Paparazzi, Upside Down, An Evening at the Carlisle, all the things that you've written throughout your career, at certain points, you've done something I think a lot of successful businessmen, showbiz people do, is you are good at the pivot. You do a show. It moves into film. It moves into another show. It moves into a documentary. How has that evolved? Why are you not just one thing? How do you dip your toe in all these different things you do?

[4:15] Al Tapper: You know, I never really thought about it. It always was a matter of passion. If I thought that something could be a movie, whatever, I'll give you an example. The documentary, Broadway, The Jewish Legacy, I knew that most of the composers during the golden years of Broadway were Jewish. I just didn't know why. You know, it didn't really make any sense. I mean, we have a country of 300 million people, and there's only 10 million Jews or 6 million Jews in America, and why would they be the ones that write all the music? So, I had a dinner with Julie Stein, if you know Julie Stein. We all should know Julie Stein. And he was a wonderful guy, and he was, I can't say he was a friend, but he was a terrific acquaintance, and we had lots of conversations, and one of them was, I asked him, I said, why is it that all the composers on Broadway are Jewish?

And he said, it's because the music is Eastern European in its roots. If you listen to Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich, any of the classical composers that are Russian or Hungarian or Polish, the music is very, very melodic, and from that music, you can pull out melodies, and that's since most of the Jews of the early 20th century were either born in Eastern Europe or their parents were born in Eastern Europe. So, they learned that, and in every Jewish house, there's always a piano or a violin or one or the other, and since the music was music that their families were used to, they were able to convert it into Broadway.

[6:23] Al Tapper: One great story was, there was one composer who, the only one that was not Jewish, was Cole Porter. He was an Episcopalian from Peru, Indiana, and he had a problem with shows. He had written three shows, but he could never be successful. So, he went to see Irving Berlin, and he knew him, and Irving knew he was very talented, and Cole Porter said, Irving, how do I learn to write American popular music? And Irving said, go to Synagogue, because if you hear the cantor chant, it's Broadway. It's like being on Broadway. It's like very, very melodic music, which is all Eastern European in its roots, and that's the best way of answering that question. It's a Peabody-winning PBS documentary called Broadway Musicals, A Jewish Legacy, and you also produced Broadway, The Golden Age by the legends who were there, and in these times, I think it's so important we know the history.

The world is a little crazy, and anti-Semitism, and sometimes our history tries to get changed and moved around, and I think it's important that we know the history and the great creatives who built this art form, that we all stand on their shoulders. I think it's important, Al.

[7:42] Al Tapper: Well, Broadway, The Golden Age, one of the wonderful things about that was meeting all of these great artists who I realized, even though they were so talented, and they were real, genuine people who were friendly, and nice, and it was the nicest people you could possibly meet, and we interviewed 100 of them, and I don't think we missed very many. The only person we couldn't get was Marlon Brando. We couldn't get Marlon Brando.

[8:19] Al Tapper: I can tell you a story, but it doesn't take too much time.

[8:22] Robert Bannon: Please, go on and hear this.

[8:24] Al Tapper: It's a really good story. I knew somebody that knew Marlon Brando, so at least I thought they knew him, so I called him, because Rick McKay, who was the director of the film, said, do you know anybody who knows Marlon Brando? So I said, I know this guy, so I called him, and he said, well, I don't really know him, but I know somebody that knows him, so he gave me another number, and I called that person, and that person said, well, I know him a little bit, but I don't know him that well, but I know this guy that really knows him. This went on four times, four separate phone calls, and finally, the guy said, I know him, but you can't call him. You have to write him. I said, okay, well, give me his address.

He said, well, it isn't that simple. If you write him, you have to write to his dog, so well, I knew Marlon was a little nuts, so I said, well, give me his dog's name, and the address where his dog lives. I'll be happy to say, and I did, and then about a week later, I was at a party at Steven Spielberg's house in the Hamptons, and he was sitting at a table with Matthew Broderick, who was in our movie, and Steven knew me, and didn't know me because of other reasons that we were involved in together, but I said, you really got to see the movie, Steven, because he's in it, and I pointed to Matthew, and Matthew says, I'm in what? I said, you're in Broadway, the Golden Age, and he said, oh, yeah, Steven, you got to see that movie.

It's great, so I was really excited. I went home that night, called Rick, and I said to Rick, I just spoke with Spielberg, and he's got the movie, and I said, Matthew Broderick was really selling it, and Rick said, oh, well, I got to tell you, I took him out. I took him out of the movie. I said, you took Matthew Broderick out of the movie? He says, yeah, he's not the Golden Age. He's the current age, so we never got Spielberg to produce the movie, so anyway, that's my combination, Marlon Brando and Matthew Broderick-Steven Spielberg story, but that's-

[10:49] Robert Bannon: Well, A, who knew that Marlon Brando's dog was handling his mail, apparently? B, Matthew Broderick apparently did not make the cut, but the doc is gorgeous.

[11:03] Al Tapper: He doesn't know he didn't make the cut, but he was interviewed. Rick took him out. I think if we discussed that, I would have said-

[11:14] Robert Bannon: Leave him in.

[11:16] Al Tapper: No, leave him in. I might get DreamWorks to distribute the film, but it took too late by the time I got home. He said, I took him out already.

[11:29] Robert Bannon: While we're talking, everybody, you can all, from September 9th into October, you can go to AMT Theater, which is Al's theater, which is absolutely beautiful. It is a jewel in the middle of New York City that you can go and see after all these years, the musicals of Al. It's going to be there, and you have to go see it. It's not only the music, but what I hear is it's a lot of these stories. You had a lot of information and conversation about your life. What made you want to write this? It's like your musical memoir.

[12:01] Al Tapper: Well, you're absolutely right. You just took the words right out of my mouth. I had written a book a couple of years ago, and it was about a guy who was older and had retired. And he was excited about the fact that he retired. I don't have to work anymore. I don't have to go to work anymore. I'm retired. And then the next second, he said, so what am I going to do? What do I do? So it became somewhat of a memoir. And I realized I should write a memoir of my life, of being a songwriter. I said it should at least include songs. So for this show, I wrote 18 songs.

[12:43] Al Tapper: And told stories that are mostly true, a little bit of fun, a little bit of exaggeration, but so in some ways it is a memoir because before every song I'm on the screen and I'm telling a story about something that happened in my life and that's that's the memo that isn't in some ways a memoir. It's just different than sitting down with pencil and pad and writing. What a fun way to see and hear your story. From September 10th to October 10th, get tickets at amttheater.org. amttheater.org. You have an incredible cast, incredible director, beautiful. The stories that apparently you tell, I'm not trying to give away the stories, but what in the world does Vladimir Putin and Joey Badafuco and Stephen Sondheim have in common? What kind of life have you lived, Al?

[13:46] Al Tapper: This is the part that I felt that Vladimir Putin is a disaster and it affects my life, it affects my freedom, and it affects our democracy. So in some ways it affects me. It affects all of us. Now that he's made deals with Iran and deals with China and sending them weapons, who knows when the next show is going to get written. So it was a way of making fun of him. And the only way to really deal with a person who is not a very good guy is to make fun of them. If you can make fun of them, you take the bite out of them. So that's what I did. So you're right. The Joey Badafuco one, I told only because I was fascinated by that story back in 1992. And I had a crush on this Amy Fisher. And that's why it had an impact on my life.

It was nothing else. I didn't know them. But I would read about it because I was fascinated that she could actually do what she did, as crazy as she was, to shoot some guy's wife and then expect that she'll be dead and she'll marry her husband. They're absolutely crazy. So that became part of my story. Those are the ones that are a little exaggerated, a little made up. They're not really about me, but about something that I was interested in. Your thoughts, your musings, what are the ideas and things that are in your head? And plus all the show business stories and a little bit about your life and love and what it's been like to be in this business.

[15:52] Al Tapper: I was in many, many businesses for the first 40 years of my life. I owned a plastics company, steel company, paper company. I owned eight companies at one time and I sold them all at the end of the 90s. 1999, I sold the last company and I said, I'm never doing that again. I've spent all these years since then, which is 27 years, doing nothing but writing. So I've had a taste of what it's like to be under enormous pressure in running a business and having to finance them. And then to be able to do the things you love to do. And the rest of my life, I will continue to do the things that I just love to do, not going back into buying a company anymore.

[16:41] Robert Bannon: Is this true? This is a rumor online, so I don't know. When people drink a cup of coffee, that has something to do with you, Al?

[16:46] Al Tapper: Yes. You know, it's really funny. I've written 11 shows. I've written seven books, four movies. And the only thing people care about is the lid I invented.

[17:03] Robert Bannon: You invented the lid, the plastic lid on the coffee cup.

[17:05] Al Tapper: Well, I owned a company called Universal Lid Company. And every cup company made their cups slightly different so that you needed a different, you have to buy the lids from the company that made the cup because otherwise they wouldn't fit. So I designed a lid that would fit every manufacturer's cup. But then I was in my car and I was driving and I went in and stopped at a 7-Eleven and bought a cup of coffee, got back into the car and spilled the coffee all over myself. And I said, got to be a better way than this. So I created the idea of the lid and making a V-shape on the edge of the lid so that you could pull that back and not have to take the lid off and you could drink the coffee with the lid still in the cup.

So yes, I invented the lid. And now every company, every lid has one. There isn't a lid that's plain anymore. And the idea was, well, if you're having a cold drink, you drink it with a straw. Right. You have to take the lid off. But in coffee, you have to take the lid off to drink the coffee. So it was a thought, just a thought. And since I was already in the business, I designed it and had it made. And it became everybody's lid. Every cup company in the world has my lid. It changed the way people live every day.

[18:42] Al Tapper: It's the fact that that's what I get remembered for, is the lid.

[18:50] Robert Bannon: But I hope you have a royalty on every lid sold. I hope you have, because if you do, I need a loan.

[18:57] Al Tapper: I'm happy to help you out. Detroit, yeah.

[19:01] Robert Bannon: I'd be happy to help.

[19:03] Al Tapper: Thank you. So what made you want to get into the actually running, co-founding, and starting an actual building that houses theater, especially when theater is very inaccessible for people? Broadway show theaters are outpricing themselves and not letting shows run. I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying it's a reality because it's so expensive to put up a show. What made you want to get into this kind of real estate?

[19:27] Al Tapper: About five years ago, Tony and I were around the corner on 9th Avenue and 45th Street, and we had written a show. I think it was On the Right Track, was the name of the title. And we had no place to play it because every theater was booked. We couldn't get a theater. So I said, let's build one, just like that. I said, let's build one, and we did. Just like that. I said, let's build one. And Tony said, you know, I know a place. So he says, it's around the corner. So we walked around the corner, and there was a studio that did dances, or polka dances, or I'm not sure what the dance was, but it was a dance studio. And they were closed, or they were closing. And I looked in and I said, you know what?

This could be a theater. And we met with the landlord, and we ended up saying, okay. And I built it and designed it. And it is, you're right, it is a beautiful theater, and it's loved by everybody, and it gets rented often. And the only time it doesn't get rented is when it's one of our shows. So, but that's how it happened. It was like, well, let's build one. Oh, okay. I got a place around the corner. Within a half hour, we had made a commitment to build the theater.

[21:00] Robert Bannon: It's incredible. If you've not been there and seen a show, this is the perfect show to go see after all these years. It's Al's story with the beautiful cast and incredible music that he wrote, original music. The tickets are 50 bucks and less, so you don't have to mortgage your house to come see incredible shows in New York City. There's a film festival that's going to be at the theater. It's the third year, the International Film Festival is going to be in October. There's always new events and shows being put on by them or rented for the theater that is going on there. There's incredible groups of, there's workshops and education, and there's a ton of stuff that is all done. It really is, you talk about the coffee, I joke about the coffee cup, and not joke because it's great, but I'll talk about a legacy. This building will be a legacy that will house art forever.

[21:42] Al Tapper: Well, thank you. I could never say it as well as you just did, so I appreciate it very much.

[21:48] Robert Bannon: No.

[21:50] Al Tapper: Everybody hears what you have to say.

[21:52] Robert Bannon: If you need to rent a space, or you're looking for the perfect 99 seat theater, all you have to do is go to amttheater.org. It is a beautiful space, it's got raised seating, there's not a bad seat in the house. Go see Al's show here at AMT Theater.

[22:09] Robert Bannon: So you split your time, you stay somewhere warm, you come up to New York, you back and forth, but there's no stopping. I'm sure you got ideas and songs and things up your sleeve to come.

[22:15] Al Tapper: I do. If I don't have a thought, I know that I will have it. Right now, it's this show, and when this show is over, my thoughts go to, what do I do next? It's like that guy in my book that said, what do I do now? He's retired, he's not young, and he's saying, what do I do now? And he asked to scratch his head. I don't have to scratch my head. I know what I'm going to do, and I'm going to continue to write. And I've already written more songs than I could have two or three more shows and not write any more music. They may not fit the show, but I'm always writing because it's a love. And when you love something and you have a piano or two around and you walk by it, it calls you over. The piano whispers to you, sit down and play me. And I listen to the whisper.

[23:28] Robert Bannon: Well, I've walked past a lot of pianos, and it hasn't whispered to me yet. I wish I could do what you do. That's a God-given talent that you have done, and the shows prove it, and the work proves it. And we're going to follow you. I'm going to have to sneak in and see a show. I've got to go see this show because I want to see his stories and his journey. And I'm sure it's going to inspire me and art makers everywhere that you could start your career. You can do 40 years doing something, and when the right moment comes. I went to acting school at 34 because I felt like it had called me and I never listened to it. And I wouldn't be where I am and doing what I'm doing if I didn't listen to that and you wouldn't have done what you've done if you didn't listen to that call. And I think that's a lesson for all of us to go out there and finish that inner voice. Do you love teaching?

[24:08] Al Tapper: I love teaching. I love teaching.

[24:13] Robert Bannon: Why do you ever have to stop?

[24:15] Al Tapper: I don't. So there's your passion. That's what you love. You don't get to a certain age where you say, well, I don't want to teach anymore. No. The wiser you get, the smarter you get, and the more you have to share with students. So that's your love, and you should keep doing it.

[24:34] Robert Bannon: Well, I thank you for your love because your love translates across the stage to all of the people that get to see it. And we're very grateful to live in a day and time where we get to see your work and your music and your story. So thank you for being here.

[24:46] Al Tapper: Thank you for having me.

[24:47] Robert Bannon: Go to the website, everybody. Go to the website. Go to AMT Theatre. Get your tickets and go see the show. You have a month to see it. There's no excuses. It's your homework. It's your homework assignment, everybody. You're going to be in New York City, make a night, take a date, and go out and see it. Thank you for being here. It's an honor. I can't wait to see you at your theater.

[25:04] Al Tapper: Can't wait to have you. Let me know when you're coming up.

[25:08] Robert Bannon: You got it. That's a deal. Thank you so much.

[25:10] Al Tapper: Bye-bye.