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[0:00] Bobby Steggert: I wish you and I could trade places for a day. Inevitably, I would learn something fascinating and valuable from your experience. And from mine, sitting where I literally sit in a comfy leather therapist chair all day, you would learn that there is nothing, absolutely nothing in the human experience that surprises me anymore. Maybe for the first couple of years, but after a while, the question was no longer, how did that happen? But rather, what was that like for you? And let me tell you the gift I have been given by my clients, and it is the same gift I hope all 30 of the guests on this podcast have offered you. When we share our stories with uncompromising honesty and acceptance and vulnerability, we are reminded that we are not alone.

That shame need not keep us hidden and isolated and imagining we are outliers in the incredibly messy and sometimes terrifying experience of being alive. I keep coming back to my mission here, and it's why doing this podcast has never really felt like work to me. I suppose it's always been my mission to tell stories with honesty and to help myself and others untangle from shame and isolation and to bring each other into the warmth and comfort of connection. It's what theatre does at its very best, it's what therapy offers, and it's what I hope I can bring to you here. I can't believe we are reaching this year's end with 30 episodes, and I'm so grateful to each and every guest who has shared their wisdom and insight, and I'm really excited to see what next year brings.

But we end this year with an especially special conversation with Sara Gettelfinger. She just closed the run of Water for Elephants on Broadway, but Sara and I came up in the business at the turn of the century together. That sounds silly but it's just true. And her career was enviable, doing all the fancy Broadway shows with all the fancy people, the original Seussical, Nine, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, The Addams Family, and then about ten years ago she disappeared from the scene altogether. It turns out that the last decade has been an absolutely harrowing one for Sara, and while I maintain nothing surprises me, it's a story that is truly unforgettable. Sara's hard-earned wisdom is born out of a struggle with addiction that brought her to her knees and that took enormous strength to return from.

She speaks of humility as an experience that not only reminded her of the utter fragility of life, but of the chance to return to a new life with a perspective that is full of gratitude for the simplest of joys and most ordinary of moments. There's a quote about addiction that really resonates with me by philosopher Kent Dunnington. Persons with severe addictions are among those contemporary prophets that we ignore to our own demise, for they show us who we truly are. What Sara has experienced is not to be ignored, and I hope you will see a part of yourself in her and perhaps be humbled by both the warning and the promise in her story.

[3:37] Bobby Steggert: Sara, it's so good to meet you. And listeners should know that sometimes guests and I talk before an episode, so we have an idea of where we're going. And in this case, I've just had a number of people tell me you have to talk to Sara Gettelfinger, and I don't know why. So I am learning along with my listeners as to why your story is an important one. So tell me, what is the story you want to share?

[4:06] Sara Gettelfinger: It's interesting because if you don't know what the story is, I have many stories, but probably why they would have said you should really talk to Sara is this past year, for the first time, really sat down and had a very open conversation about the most spectacular fall from grace that sort of occurred over the last 10 or 11 years of my life. And what's interesting, the response that I received from literally thousands of people, primarily saying thank you so much for being open and honest and talking about what so many people do keep quiet instead of bringing it to the forefront. So I'll give you the greatest hits. I got to New York when I was right out of college, like 1999, and probably the first 13, 14, 15 years, I worked very hard, but I was really blessed with wonderful work and people that kept inviting me back.

Anyone could look at my resume and say, wow, she's really doing great. And it started out as having a ball, feeling really good, feeling really successful. And essentially, when you're in your 20s, and I guess it can happen for anybody, but for me, I'm on Broadway, I'm living my dream. I'm with these fabulous people who are my peers and my friends. And for most of my 20s, it was just the sort of rinse and repeat of, you finish this show, you go to dinner, and then you have some drinks, and then you party.

[5:41] Sara Gettelfinger: That's the culture.

[5:42] Bobby Steggert: Oh, absolutely. And as long as you can be near Gatorade and a bagel around four the next day, you can be ready to perform.

[5:50] Bobby Steggert: Were you pretty resilient in your 20s in terms of energy and getting back up on stage?

[5:55] Sara Gettelfinger: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And a lot of it was because, while deep in my heart, I was wanting to transition to more roles that really centered around acting or singing. I was just a hardcore dancer. And so you just had that sort of energy and metabolism. But it was really interesting because looking back, the drinking and partying was the first chapter, and then, for me, what really would be the defining demon in my life was it was that first party when I tried cocaine.

[6:30] Bobby Steggert: That's often something that balances out effects of alcohol. Was it something that kept you feeling more functional?

[6:34] Sara Gettelfinger: Oh, yes. Because it was like, not only do I not drink as much, but I'm this thin and productive and don't need as much sleep. And it just literally made you feel like you have superpowers. And I did that for a while, and I did it, on the surface, what would seem successfully, or I don't like to say successfully, but in a very high-functioning way.

[7:03] Bobby Steggert: You were doing your job and doing it well.

[7:05] Sara Gettelfinger: Yes. And I would later come to learn it was perceived as well, but it had nothing to do with it actually being my best, healthiest, most authentic work. But again, when you are at a place in your life where not just when your heart hurts, not just in terms of the worth of my work, but my self-worth, the barometer for that is feedback from others. It doesn't occur to you to look and reflect. People think, oh my gosh, you look amazing. Oh my gosh. And it's like, cool.

[7:41] Sara Gettelfinger: I would say probably around 2006, something started to shift where not only was it not just doing that sort of thing socially, I was seeking it out on my own.

[7:59] Bobby Steggert: In what circumstances?

[8:02] Sara Gettelfinger: Meaning that I wouldn't just partake in Coke if I was at a big fun party and everybody was staying up all night. I found a way to where I would get it myself and have it at my home and looking back to where it was on a much more regular basis and using it as more of a maintenance tool.

[8:25] Bobby Steggert: So would you tell listeners about your experience of tolerance in terms of what happened and how much you needed over time?

[8:30] Sara Gettelfinger: Sure. It's interesting because it's like increase when that drug hasn't turned on you is a little more gradual. For me, that was my experience. What's interesting is, and I say this to some of my young friends and artists, especially if they come to me or I'm just very open, I say, if nothing else, please let me be your ghost of Christmas future. Please. I also don't believe it. People are going to have fun. People are going to party and not everyone's going to have the crippling problem. Part of that has to do with growing up and having experiences. It's a very different time right now because it was very interesting after being away for over 10 years. Of course, there were many things that I thought about now that I'm almost 11 years clean of coming back into this environment and these blocks where all of that really happened.

But it's a very different environment now because back when we were having our heyday, there wasn't that same danger of you could try it once or I'll just do it once and I could be laced with something that was a different thing. So back then you could do it and do it well even daily. I'm not saying like an eight ball daily, but just even a little bit before I sang or a little bit so I didn't necessarily have to eat dinner. I could do a juice and it would just carry me over. For many years, like I said, it was like a superpower. It felt that way because I was thin, I was active. It does this thing almost like with your register where it will pitch your voice up and it feels like you can sing better.

[10:17] Bobby Steggert: So you were never getting colds or kind of size infections and sick because of it?

[10:22] Sara Gettelfinger: Not for a very long time. And that's what's so crazy is like there are certain, I don't make a habit of this in general, but there are certain recordings or even like since I came back after being away, people have sent me things or people will post things for the earlier years of my career. And it's not that I'm not really proud of that work in some ways, but I also see that young girl where I listened to that track from an album and it is beautiful. And people say, Oh my gosh, this was incredible. But then I also remember going to the bathroom in between those takes. And so it's very profound to go, Oh God, that poor child. But what was interesting is the real jump to where God.

[11:12] Sara Gettelfinger: So probably by 2011, 2012, like if I were to get an eight ball from the person that I dealt with, maybe last two days, because it was just, you woke up and it was to the end of the day. And what was really interesting is when that drug turns on you, and again, my personal experience, but for many people that I've worked with in terms of recovery programs or just therapy situations, I've heard a lot of people have this experience. You suddenly wake up one day and it's not only not keeping you sane and energetic, you're more fatigued than you've ever been.

[11:59] Sara Gettelfinger: It was like everything that you thought was the superpower, not only stopped, it reversed. Can you make sense of what happened when it turned on you? Was it a physiological process connected to aging or was there something emotional that changed as well? I think that's one thing even back when it hadn't started affecting my sinuses or my throat or my weight or my energy. One of the first things that it absolutely did was put you what I would describe as a constant place of mania, just very manic, the highs of high, the lows of low, very edgy, could be very quick to anger. And that was when I was a younger person. I think of the three elements that they asked for in musical theater, I think I was always an actor first.

I think that was my intuitive thing that just felt very natural and organic to me. It was always the most important to me. So I wasn't one of those people that ever had trouble accessing my emotions. But that was another thing that was really, you got to be very careful because suddenly you just have the ability to turn on a dime. And so you're out there doing this work that while you feel, and a lot of people may respond to it as incredibly deep and powerful and full, it's actually very manic and reckless.

[13:37] Bobby Steggert: Were you convinced that it was helping the complexity of your work?

[13:46] Sara Gettelfinger: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because what was happening simultaneously is I was living for and through my resume. And what's interesting is, because a lot of people say, "Oh yes, the angel thing, but you can't just be about your work." But what I really fell into was, yes, if I'm able to book this, then people will see me as this in terms of career. But it was like, then I'll be in the circles where I'll meet a partner. Then I'll be in the circles where I'll have these incredible friendships with people that I admire and we'll go upstate for the weekend and we'll have human time together. You know what I mean? Because it's not just about wanting to chase the gig. You watch people and you admire them.

And at least I did. And it wasn't just, I want to have this place on the marquee or the playbill, or I want to be singing that song, or I want to get nominated. It's, I want to spend that weekend at that house and I want to be there for that birthday. And I want to give and exchange beautiful books. And it just felt like there was this world of life and partners and friends and community that, well, when I get that, then I'll find that.

[15:09] Bobby Steggert: I see. While you were idealizing this imagined life, what was happening with your on-the-ground relationships?

[15:19] Sara Gettelfinger: I always, I was very lucky to have wonderful friends, some of them who are still in my life. But I will tell you, while I was always included, I always had friends that were a little bit older than me. And I always felt that loneliness and sadness of going back to my little apartment alone. I would be invited to just in different circles of Thanksgiving or a birthday or things like that. But I was always at least the third wheel, if not the seventh or the ninth.

[15:48] Bobby Steggert: Did you understand that your use was part of the isolation or was that not something that was conscious at that point?

[15:53] Sara Gettelfinger: I don't think it was conscious, but, or maybe it was in between, because there was definitely a conscious choice as far as, because the other thing that had really happened in terms of my socializing, even some of my friends who would be considered very consistent and professional partiers, again, because there was this need to preserve an idea or possibly have a possibility of graduating to this other life and community. You know, people weren't picking me up off the floor or rolling me into cabs. I would go and have trousery glasses or just a little bump here, but it would be when I left, I would go get my own supplies and go home alone.

[16:42] Bobby Steggert: And I'm sure that kept you very lonely.

[16:46] Sara Gettelfinger: Oh, yes. And there was absolutely this double life happening. And the other thing that I still think about that is so profound, I remember I was doing a play at Lincoln Center and still to this day, cannot believe I managed to get cast in a play because the other players around me, the creative team were so incredible. I was so proud. That was really when things had started to turn dark. And I remember standing in my little apartment on the east side, preparing a few lines and thinking, okay, I just got to make sure that I do enough to where I can go and be really good and present there, but not too much. And there was some sort of like little checklist that sort of went through my head. It was not just about maintenance in terms of me being able to show up and try to pull one over on my level of functioning.

But also, I'm very lucky that I have, we were restrained, understandably so, for a while. But back then, and even now, my parents and my brothers, we are very close. They'd always been my biggest supporters. And I just remember specifically standing there going, as long as I can go and do the job there and just let mom or dad or boys or certain friends know, as long as I'm only hurting myself, it's okay. And I think back about that so often, about how changing that in my entire life was what saved my life and has given me a completely new existence. But it's also so heartbreaking that it's like the person who should have been first on my list. It was just me, so it doesn't matter.

[18:40] Bobby Steggert: What shifted when you realized that you did have to take care of yourself?

[18:48] Sara Gettelfinger: It was interesting because I will say, honestly, it wasn't some big epiphany where I was like, this is the right thing to do. I ran the fuck out of road, and there was no other choice. I crawled my way through the end of the Addams Family tour.

[19:06] Bobby Steggert: What does that mean? Paint a picture of what crawling through means.

[19:09] Sara Gettelfinger: Having trouble staying awake on stage. Absolutely. Those cast members, so many of them were so patient and kind, but the level of unacceptable, unprofessional bullshit that I brought on that stage, God bless them because they deserved so much better. And I will tell you, it's also one of the most profound things that was ever said to me. I had a producer who I still owe him a lot to me finally having the wake-up call, who flat out came to me and said, I want you to know something. I'm not sure what decisions you're going to make on this, but the only reason we haven't fired you is because even when you're screwed up, we can't find somebody at the moment that's better in this part than you are. But for your sake and for your life, I hope you take a look at some of this.

[20:09] Sara Gettelfinger: So basically what happened is I managed to finish that tour so overweight, just no energy, sick. I was back in New York for maybe about six weeks. I'd made this big promise and it was like, on my birthday, which is March 13th, I'm going to get clean. But of course, I'm going to do it myself and do it in secret. I'm sitting here Googling, like Googling, is there anything at Whole Foods for cocaine withdrawal? I'm just like, no, uh-huh, yes. All going to just do this very neatly and proceed to get obliterated on my birthday. And then four days later, which is so fitting for me when everyone else is drinking green beer, I crawled to Brooklyn. My sobriety date is March 17th, 2013. And I crawled to Brooklyn and my dear friend who was in the program took my phone and called my family and I was on a plane the next day.

But it was not by choice. It was like, I remember laying in my bed in my apartment and just at this point having a panic attack. There was nothing I could take. I'd taken everything. It was so far beyond anything satisfying the high or just to break even. So that's why I went there. And then interestingly enough, we could go at bigger chunks. I proceeded to go home. I proceeded to go to rehab, get with doctors who were helping me detox and try to rebuild. And the sort of other fun thing that happened is one of the antidepressants that they put me on that was supposed to help me stay clean ended up igniting this completely other separate new compulsion with gambling.

[22:03] Bobby Steggert: What did the drug do in terms of how it affected you physiologically or emotionally?

[22:10] Sara Gettelfinger: It was interesting because I wasn't drinking or drugging. I'm back in Southern Indiana where there is a very different culture. There's lots of gambling. There's a huge casino there. And I still don't even know like where the idea came. I think part of it was because even though I'd grown up there, I'd left New York, I'm mostly just doing meetings and again that loneliness. But I also think because something wasn't quite right in terms of my brain being recalibrated to try and just avoid anything addictive. It just clearly wasn't the right combo. And sure enough, and I wouldn't realize this until much later when I literally saw like one of those law commercials that said, have you taken this drug and had your life ruined by gambling?

Because what I'm thinking is this is all going on. Okay. We've taken away the drugs. We've taken away the booze. And apparently I'm just, I'm a monster. And no matter what you take from me, I'm going to find something else. Being an addict, I'm going to find something else to destroy myself and hurt other people. I'd never even thought of, I'd done stuff in Vegas. I'd done stuff in Atlantic City. And that was one thing that always was like, and not in a noble way, but I remember being in Vegas for months at a time, like on shows and like going to casino, that's throwing money down the toilet. I can get drugs with that. So, but it was just this new thing. And I was ashamed. I didn't say to my doctor or my therapist or my parents, look, I'm working so hard on leaving this other stuff behind. And now I've got these new impulses that I've never had before. This doesn't make sense. Sure enough, we just go to our double life mode.

[23:59] Sara Gettelfinger: Again, I end up taking things from my parents. What really ended up having me crash and burn was I was staying with a dear mentor of mine who had all these things like in her home, in her basement, that I literally, literally, you know, we're actors. You don't take stuff to a pawn shop because you have to put your ID and everything and you don't absolutely be able to trace that. But I had sold all my things trying to do this stuff and I remember taking them to the pawn shop because I really believed I'm just going to do this and then once I win, I'll get it back and I'll put it back. Which is literally like saying, okay, I'm going to take your child from the playground on Thursday, but I swear I'm going to bring it back on Sunday so it's not kidnapping.

Just like lunacy. And with all the addiction stuff too, it's just like that emotional stuff is the first poison. That's what starts to tank you before you pick anything up. And sure enough, it ended up coming out. And even when I was doing it, I was like, what are you doing? What's the goal here? Are we going to win a bag of money and then move back to New York? What are you doing? But you're selling everything, literally begging, borrowing and going to this place like five times a day. What are you doing? And then eventually things came out. I got arrested, lost my family, my friends. I ended up living in a women's shelter, like halfway house for several months. And I was, by the grace of God, the prosecutor, not even my lawyer said, look, I don't know what's going on.

I know this girl is an addict, but as far as her record, she doesn't even have a speeding ticket. So something's not adding up. So thankfully this person said, I'm not just going to slap her with a felony. Of course, I pleaded no contest. I got probation for three years, obviously restitution. I'd pay everything back, keep in the meetings on a regular basis. And obviously it was through the program of this halfway house that I was in, but it was very much explained to me. If one thing, once you step out one time, you will be back at a courtroom. You could absolutely go to jail and you will have a felony. But if you can fulfill this and stay out of trouble for three years called diversion, we can take this off of your record.

So what was interesting is at this point, I'm in this halfway house and I'm not going to go back to that casino because I'm terrified of going to jail, but it was ruling my thoughts every single day. And that sort of took me further down into just the shame, but also just really feeling like I just needed caution tape around me. I'm a fucking monster, like I said, and no matter what, I'm going to find a way to destroy myself. It was in that halfway house that I was having coffee one morning and I saw that commercial about, have you taken this drug? Blah, blah, blah. I call and I sit down with this lawyer and suddenly I have all this information because there's also this part of you that not just for like explaining it to other people, but I thought, you know, I am absolutely an addict.

Is this just some kind of transference? This seems a little, Oh, this made me do it. That was not, but what was so crazy is I'm literally being handed all of this scientific evidence, ended up being able to be in support groups with people from Canada and Australia because this drug almost 15 years before the FDA caught up with this pharmaceutical company in the United States, much more noble people than myself, like teachers, people that don't have any addiction or depression or no, people that don't have any regular addiction tendencies, but because of depression got on this thing and suddenly they're draining their savings accounts and their kid's college fund or mortgaging their houses or taking money from their parishes and some of them were families because the person who had gone through it had taken their life and succeeded.

I twice, thankfully was not successful, but you just get to this point where it's like, what is wrong with me? And it is very specifically in this drug, whatever the receptor is that is connected to specifically a gambling compulsion, not for everybody, but for about half of the users will light that up. And the craziest thing was I go to my doctor and I said, look, I've just discovered this, here's the stuff I want to get off this thing. And what was crazy is it wasn't even my main antidepressant. It was like a secondary sort of enhancer. But Bobby, I'm not kidding you. I stopped taking this thing. And within three weeks it was like a spell was broken.

[30:22] Bobby Steggert: That's amazing.

[30:23] Sara Gettelfinger: It was like, not only did I not, I wasn't wanting to go there. Like if I even drove sort of in the part of downtown that like led to the road where you went, I would get sick to my stomach, like it was, but it also marked, I had just lost everybody changed my number five times, but what I realized was, wait a second, I'm not a monster. And most importantly, I've got a shot at experiencing sobriety. And so tell me about once you got off the drug, what led you down the road of really starting to heal?

[30:57] Sara Gettelfinger: The biggest thing was that for me, I was able to first send this information specifically to my parents and my brothers and go, look, I know that I have got a lot of walking to do before talking. Well, you know, I can't just send you this and go, Hey, this is why, but I want you to know this and now that I know this, and also now that this has been taken away, I'm going to start trying to, I'm not done. This was not my death sentence, if you will, because not in just the emotional way, but it was quite literally going to lead to that, you know what I mean? And I think it brought them some relief and comfort, but there was also still just a shoe road ahead in terms of this is a positive and interesting update.

We'll see how things progress. But for me, first of all, just knowing I feel differently. And even if it's just about, because sometimes in those darkest days of getting started in recovery, it's, did I make my bed? Did I brush my teeth? Did I have the coffee made at the meeting that I committed to doing just little things like that. But the very first thing that happened was I could do those simple things and was not having to push out this nagging compulsion that was always waiting there that I was trying to ignore. So that was the first gift. And then from there, there's suddenly all this room now in terms of what is this blank slate in front of me? I'm wondering if there's something of a gift in the simplicity that you suddenly got to.

[32:02] Bobby Steggert: Absolutely.

[32:03] Sara Gettelfinger: Because it's that thing of in your mind and spirit, you can't even begin to try and rebuild or change or contemplate anything thoroughly if you've got spaces just taken up with chaos. And then the next thing that allowed me to do was, you know, because in this chunk of time and not that I didn't benefit from it tremendously in some of the people that I was with, we're talking like everything from waiting tables at Frisch's Big Boy to selling vacuum cleaners to just things that while it's not even necessarily a judgment on those professions, because like I said, I met some of the most wonderful people that were so important in really saving my life. But in terms of the life I was used to, it was so foreign and I just was leaving my body every day to just do what I needed to do.

But I also realized I'm going to just give myself permission to possibly explore what would it be like if I was able to apply for jobs that brought me just a little bit of joy. And that was rather it was working at the public library. And then one day I saw that there was an opening for a preschool teacher because I've always loved kids. And the other thing that this realization gave me was I was able to go in because it would be another five years before everything was settled. I fulfilled my restitution and it was off my record. But what was incredible is I could go to these job interviews and sit down and say, here's the deal. When you use my background check, this is what you're going to find. And I'm going to tell you exactly what's going on with that. And I understand that may be a difference, but what was such a gift is by handling it that way, I never lost a job.

[34:03] Bobby Steggert: Wow.

[34:04] Sara Gettelfinger: So I stopped performing for different reasons and I had a very complicated relationship to that. But one of the parts of me that responded to not performing was a relief at not being in front of people. And when you ended up in these other jobs and these other roles, were you missing performing? Were you relieved to not be performing? How was your relationship to performing changed?

[34:27] Sara Gettelfinger: It's interesting because I will tell you, I know this sounds like she's probably exaggerating, but I'm not. Oh, sorry. I think some of it was good because I so desperately needed to find some self-worth as a human being, totally separate from that.

[34:50] Bobby Steggert: Yes, yes.

[34:51] Sara Gettelfinger: But between friends and because I had loved it for so long, but it also really damaged what I loved. When I tell you I shut that door and I'm not just talking about, I didn't check on Broadway World or something like that. I didn't listen to music for three years. And I'm talking like I'd have to turn the radio because we're not just artists who are on stage. It's in us and the way we're moved by things and the way we respond to things. And I just, I shut that door. I shut that door. And in some ways I know it was because it was just so painful. But I specifically remember years passed and then when I slowly was able to listen to certain songs again, or even just put on like a Sunday in the park, I literally couldn't because I felt like it would just, I would literally, it would destroy me. But I also was just in such this focus determined just because I had just been.

[35:59] Sara Gettelfinger: He said humbled but beyond humbled, just demolished to where there's not even the foundation of the house, but like they bomb and take the stuff out of the ground. I was in such a place of... When I say I'm not done yet, I don't mean I'm gonna make it back. And even when that came, it was completely like, okay, maybe it was like I've got a shot at being above ground. It's funny because when I talk about this with people, it's like when I say there's no way I can possibly describe it to you. There's two kinds of people. It's either you either know it and lived it and survived it, or if you haven't, I hope you don't ever fully understand what I'm talking about. I really do because it is... But the difference is with all of this new information, there was this piece.

I also remember really getting to a place again, the humbled... I don't have all these... I have these dreams and I just know, and it has stuck. I wasn't even aiming for happiness. I really wasn't. And I would talk about that, and it wasn't in like this, "Oh, poor me, I've got this pendant." It was when you almost get in a car accident. Even if you don't, it's like you can physically feel what you dodged for a few days. That's the only way I can describe it. And when I say it was like I'm so good with just peace. I'm so good with just peace. I'm calm. I'm healthy. I don't have four notebooks of lines that I have to keep track of. Like I can go to the grocery store and buy nice vegetables. I have the money to do that. Totally good and totally grateful, and that was a big chunk of it.

[38:00] Sara Gettelfinger: And then when I really transitioned into... because I got to a point where I wasn't just working in preschool classrooms. I got to a place where I was able to advise for an entire school, like all the classrooms, of how can we use the arts and music in everything from like gross motor to reading and basic math. I tell you what, it was like that thing I was chasing for so long with what I did matters and self-worth and blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, you make a difference for a little kid. And that was the first time I really was like laying my head on the pillow at night. And it's not about it being recorded in history. It's not about it being up on a website or thing, but like that little person I made a fucking difference for them.

[39:01] Bobby Steggert: We'll be right back. This is amazing, I'm really in awe of your story. And the last thing I would love to focus on is this re-entry back into your life as an actor. I would only assume that you must have thought that you would not be welcome or you would not have allowed yourself the chance of coming back. And so what opened your heart and your mind to the possibility of returning here?

[39:28] Sara Gettelfinger: Well, it's interesting because it again, it was so strange during the pandemic. Well, another thing that was really wonderful that happened. I ended up... we were grade school sweethearts. I ended up reconnecting with someone from I was very young who's now my husband. We've been together nine years, been married for four, two stepkids. Reconnected with my family. I was not only teaching young ones but then started even coaching again and teaching at dance studios and things like that. But even during the pandemic, I willed myself to get back on Facebook mostly just because I wanted to check on my friends. Obviously, by opening that connection again, I'm still seeing them here doing their thing.

But when I say it didn't occur to me, it just didn't. Nothing... it would just make me smile. But it was like I had this new life now where I felt good about myself. And even in my marriage, one of those things is I love you so much, but I love me more. And that's a new thing for me, but that's my line now with everything. So it was all on my radar, but it wasn't a "I wish" or "I'm not good enough." I just... I was happy, and I still felt like an artist. And then the 20th anniversary "Seussical" reunion happened. We met all of us on Zoom because we couldn't do it the year it would have been, but they said next year, let's do this 54 Below concert. Great, and I thought, gosh, I was like I might do that.

I might do that. But even when I did that, I said what a beautiful way because "Seussical" was my first Broadway show, but what a beautiful way to just finish that chapter of my life, you know what I mean? To where I end it with something beautiful and good, and there's a full circle.

[41:15] Sara Gettelfinger: So when I came up to do that concert, it wasn't my showcase. That's like sending out flyers. That's how old I am. Nobody sends out flyers anymore. But cop cards. But it was for me. My husband was there. My parents were there. It's really my best... you know, that was it. But then what happened was a series of interesting events, and I'm not sure if Michelle popped ended up purpose or not. She was always a guardian angel. But when I was in the show, I was one of the bird girls, but I understudied Maisie, and suddenly Michelle couldn't do the concert. So I suddenly... I'm gonna go up, and I'm not only gonna do this, but I'm gonna do Maisie. So I'm having to work on this stuff. And it was the craziest thing because I'm just sitting in my little living room in Indiana working on this stuff and going, I'll be damned if this isn't the best I've ever felt or sounded or... like your accent came out when you said it.

And the beautiful thing was... I'm actually just realizing it as I'm talking. I felt like I had superpowers. You didn't need the coke at all. I was like an instrument that I had damaged and neglected and just put away. And then when I got it back out again because it was just for the joy, it was like I could do anything. And my sweet husband kept like running in every once in a while, like, "Baby, it's really good." I'm not just... it's really good.

[42:37] Sara Gettelfinger: Yeah, so anyway, cut to I go up, I do this thing, and then a month after, I get a message from my... you know, was my agent back then, is still my agent for over 20 years. And she was like, "Excuse me, did you do a fucking 'Seussical' concert and you didn't tell me about it?" I came back from the holidays, and I've got like 12 messages asking about you. And the other thing that was really great is that was a really special group of people, and they were all just very... like I do kind of... the response was overwhelming, and it was beautiful. And it was then that I realized I might have a way of looking at what I love again, but keeping it in its proper place. And the profound thing about that is in realizing that it is not the end-all be-all, just even in terms of the world or even in who I am. It doesn't diminish it. It actually keeps it in a place where it is the unbelievable special privilege it is to get to do it. So that's the humility right there.

[43:53] Sara Gettelfinger: Absolutely, and why you're doing it because I was really honest with myself because I did a couple of things, but especially coming back with "Water for Elephants." That was a big, you know, and again why I even did that big interview with Paul and talked about my story and everything. It was funny because they asked me about doing that on the first day of "Water for Elephants" rehearsal. I said, "Oh, I said, here's the deal. I'm not saying no, but it's too soon." I said, "I want to again walk the walk first. I want to show up. I want to make it to the stage. I want to do good work, but not just in quality, but what kind of company member am I? What kind of energy do I bring to the road?" So once we do, you know, then we could talk about it.

But when I say it's humbled, it's like that word has become so... it's been there my whole life and everything from "I'm humbled and grateful for this opportunity," when it's just in the earlier days, I was like this will be the key to my happiness. Humbled as in getting your ass handed to you in terms of like I have... like even today, I have a very walking different definition of what a bad day.

[45:09] Sara Gettelfinger: But even now, I've had this beautiful experience with "Water for Elephants." We also weren't the big runaway hit that people hoped for. We're closing earlier than we're supposed to. I don't have nine other offers, you know, and it doesn't make it any less of a miraculous thing. And we closed December 8th, and by December the 10th, I'm gonna be back at my house in Indiana, and I'm gonna be teaching my students again, and I'm gonna help clean the bathrooms properly and go to the J.C. and make grilled cheese for my kids. And it's like on we go. There is grace in the word humility.

[45:55] Sara Gettelfinger: Yeah, and I think because of that, you're learning if there's grace in the simplest and tiniest of moments. Yes, because the other thing that it really empowers you is whether it's, you know, "Oh, I'm so humbled to be accepting this award," or "I'm humbled because, oh, I'm a little bold, stuck my neck out there, and it didn't go how I thought." And it's funny. It makes me think of my friend Laura Bonati, her wonderful show, but just even the title itself, "Nobody Cares," to be that is so beautiful because it's like it goes back to... you. It just matters if you care. It matters if you care, and you are in charge of what these gifts and these experiences are because the reality is whether it's a galactic failure or this success of the century, it's never quite as big as you thought, and it's never quite as end-all, devastating as it is, and time marches the fuck on.

And so that humility takes that outside validation out of the equation because whatever it is, good, bad, challenging, a little bit of both, it's mine. And at least now in my life, I'm here, and I'm healthy, and I'm present, and I get to experience it all. And it's the fact that these beautiful things can and will be there, and then they absolutely will go away. And yet if we should keep waking up and showing up and just being available for whatever it is, that's where you get that fulfillment that you get to keep.