This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Ramin Karimloo: Hello and welcome to The Hang. In today's episode, we are speaking with Laurence Olivier-nominated American actress, Sierra Boggess. For many who love theatre, who love the Phantom of the Opera, who love Love Never Dies, who love The Little Mermaid, who love, well, Broadway, Sierra Boggess will be part of that conversation. Many who have supported me along the way already know my association and collaborations with Sierra. We originated the lead roles in Love Never Dies as Phantom and Christine. That's when we met. We played opposite each other in the 25th anniversary of The Phantom of the Opera, where we played the original version of Phantom and Christine. We have done concerts together several times in Japan with a show called Four Stars.

We played opposite each other in the 25th anniversary of The Secret Garden, which was at the Lincoln Center, playing Archibald and Lily. When we finally got a chance to sit down and catch up on The Hang, we got to reminiscing about our time in The Phantom of the Opera, Love Never Dies, living in this current climate, and got to learn about our passion project, Light Lessons. We also started talking about our upcoming concert with Hadley Fraser, The Reunion, which is happening in Tokyo, Japan in September, the first time the three of us get to share a stage together again since the 25th anniversary of The Phantom of the Opera. Most importantly, she's one of my best friends, and I love every second I get to spend with her. Sierra Boggess, welcome to The Hang.

[1:33] Sierra Boggess: Oh my gosh, Ramin! I can't believe this is happening.

[1:37] Ramin Karimloo: Now you've done a few podcasts, haven't you?

[1:39] Sierra Boggess: Yeah, but not this one.

[1:41] Ramin Karimloo: I know, but you're like a seasoned pro at this stuff.

[1:44] Sierra Boggess: I mean, I'm a seasoned pro at just talking to people.

[1:50] Ramin Karimloo: You've come to the right place.

[1:52] Sierra Boggess: Yeah, I feel like I just want to hang with you right now. That's what it feels like.

[1:56] Ramin Karimloo: Let's just hang and talk. How does that sound?

[1:59] Sierra Boggess: I love it!

[2:02] Ramin Karimloo: How are you doing?

[2:05] Sierra Boggess: I'm good. This is funny. I'm in New York. You're in London right now.

[2:11] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[2:12] Sierra Boggess: And we have a really cool setup going on just to be able to hang, which I think is really special. And yeah, I'm good. I've literally been hanging out.

[2:24] Ramin Karimloo: That's all we can do.

[2:25] Sierra Boggess: Yeah. What about you?

[2:27] Ramin Karimloo: Same old. Obviously, when this comes out, I pray that it's looking back on the time where we were locked down, and I hope we are back out and about. But yeah, you know, every day I wake up and I think, okay, let's find the motivation and the joy of perhaps doing the same thing, but being, you know, even the little things be grateful that I'm healthy, my family's healthy, we have a home. But it's a weird time.

[2:59] Sierra Boggess: It really is.

[3:00] Ramin Karimloo: It's weird because, you know, we've both known someone who's passed away from this. Rest in peace, Terrence McNally, an artist I know has passed away over here. People are so sick. And I still see people choosing to think it's okay to do whatever.

[3:18] Sierra Boggess: I know.

[3:19] Ramin Karimloo: And walk about the streets, having picnics and garden parties. I hope they are right and we are wrong. But while we don't know,

[3:29] Sierra Boggess: I know.

[3:30] Ramin Karimloo: we have to work together. We're all trying to figure this out. But right now, let's just get through this as one.

[3:35] Sierra Boggess: We have to be a family.

[3:36] Ramin Karimloo: Absolutely. I mean, that's the thing is like, it's actually bringing, it's bringing out, I think, what you stand for when life is normal is coming out even more now. And do you know what I mean? So I'm noticing that you're either seeing all the ways that people are helping or you're seeing all the ways that people are hurting. And you are either, you're identifying with one or the other and you want to be part of either the problem or the solution. But, you know, people that are part of the problem don't think they are. They're just being completely self-absorbed.

[4:20] Sierra Boggess: And what I think is fascinating about this time is if you're not sick, you know, those of us that are luckily not sick, we're being given an opportunity to reset. And we're being given an opportunity to behave differently. And you and I have talked about it. Hopefully everybody is going to come back when the world reopens and behave differently because we are, to me, we are being given an opportunity to be introspective and come back better and stronger and more loving and kind and with integrity. And, you know, there's so many aspects of life that I think we've all noticed because it was a really crazy world before this. And it was getting crazier. And I think we were really starting to see a lot of things happening that's without integrity. So how can we come back into the world when it reopens? Is the lack of a better phrase different? Or hold fast to the values that you had but maybe now you have it stronger or something. I don't know.

[5:37] Sierra Boggess: Yeah, this is something I keep going back and forth with every day. So up until I read a tweet by JK Rowling, I read something prior to that where someone goes, if you don't come out of this time either with a new skill or a new side hustle finally started or knowledge, you don't lack time, you lack discipline. And I thought, oh, there's a lot of truth in that.

[6:01] Ramin Karimloo: That's beautiful.

[6:02] Sierra Boggess: But then she tweets something. Well, some people just can only and try to survive during this. So they don't need to hear that. And I thought, oh, that's very true as well.

[6:14] Ramin Karimloo: That's right. I think we have to give a lot of grace to people right now in a way that we don't normally because we really don't know people's situations. And no, this isn't a collective time of like, all right, now you have to come. It's not mandatory to come up with a new skill or to keep doing the skills you are doing. I think the only thing that is clear is that we got to stay indoors. So what does that look like for each one of us? And are you somebody where it's like, okay, all I've been saying is I just need time. I just need time if I only have the time then. Well, if you are somebody who's been saying that, now's your time. But if you're somebody who's like, I just needed a break, I just need a break.

How many times do we say that all the time? It's like, I just need a break. And here's your break. And so how do you want to have this? How do you want to spend this time? And also, yes, don't miss out on the time. If you are somebody who wants to write the great American novel, then now's a great time. So don't miss out on that time. But also, especially those of us that it's like, I know our schedules. Don't miss your time to just exist without having to do anything or accomplish anything.

[7:38] Sierra Boggess: Yes.

[7:41] Ramin Karimloo: And I had a few friends tell me that specifically for me. Like, Ramin, it's okay to not do anything.

[7:43] Sierra Boggess: Yes.

[7:44] Ramin Karimloo: But what made me very embarrassed after reading JK Rowling's tweet was that was a real moment where I felt the sense of you are privileged, Ramin, because you didn't once consider what if you couldn't pay your bills? What if you were truly destitute because of the situation? Now, if this goes on for six months, I just might be, but right now I'm not. And I was like, damn, there are going to be people who just surviving will be enough right now. And I felt really ashamed of myself that I only saw what was in front of me. So that was a lesson. I was like, okay, this is you. Fine. That's one way you've got yourself sorted, but this doesn't apply to everyone necessarily.

[8:35] Sierra Boggess: And that's the thing about the world that we live in, is we have social media. And so what if you had been somebody who's like, you had all these thoughts and you just wrote them down and you wrote them as fact and it's like, you should this, this, this. Because there's nothing wrong with what you thought. And then there's nothing wrong with you being like, oh, holy, hold on a second. But that's the problem I think with now, is the blessing and the curse, because you can write whatever you want and then it becomes as fact. But if you had said that and declared that's like, this is what you should be doing and da, da, da, and not worrying about anybody else, you know what I mean? So it's okay that you have that because it's like, it's all relative and it's part of your, that was part of your journey or whatever. Do you know what I'm saying?

[9:24] Sierra Boggess: Absolutely.

[9:25] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. And it took, and knowing that now I gave myself grace like, okay, well, you've learned something and that's okay as well. Part of all this, you know, and life anyways.

[9:35] Sierra Boggess: Totally.

[9:36] Ramin Karimloo: Every time I hear the word should, I think of you because we had this conversation.

[9:41] Sierra Boggess: Yes.

[9:42] Ramin Karimloo: So I would like you to remind me of that conversation because it doesn't sit well with me.

[9:46] Sierra Boggess: There's two things that I've thought of you a lot recently. That and there's something else which we'll get onto.

[9:50] Ramin Karimloo: Okay.

[9:51] Sierra Boggess: But what's with the word should again? And why does it bother me when I hear someone else say it?

[9:55] Sierra Boggess: Because every time you say the word should, that means that you are, are we allowed to say bad words on here?

[10:02] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I've said it all the time.

[10:04] Sierra Boggess: Okay. Because I'm doing so good right now not saying. No, you can be free.

[10:09] Ramin Karimloo: Okay, good.

[10:11] Sierra Boggess: So every time you say the word should, you're shitting on the moment that you're in. So if you're going, I should be practicing right now. That means you're shitting on what you're doing right at this moment. You know, and that's what it is that it's like, oh, so I'm not honoring the moment that I'm in. Instead, I'm being like, this isn't good enough. I should be this.

[10:38] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[10:39] Sierra Boggess: And it does. It really does. And I learned this lesson from Joe Milson.

[10:44] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I remember.

[10:45] Sierra Boggess: Joe Milson was in Love Never Dies with us, for those of people that don't know.

[10:49] Ramin Karimloo: Yes, he was also, well, once we get back, he's in Mary Poppins over here.

[10:53] Sierra Boggess: Mary Poppins.

[10:54] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[10:55] Sierra Boggess: And that's what it is, is that you aren't honoring the moment that you're in. And in fact, to should something, creates a lot of anger and unrest. And it's very hard for other, like, as you know, and as kids, we hate being told you should this, you should this. We remember this from childhood. And, you know, I just, I'm trying to take that out of my vocabulary, which is what we talked about. I always, as I go to write it, I'm like, okay, what other words can I use? I'm like, I would encourage you, or something.

[11:31] Ramin Karimloo: Isn't that so good?

[11:32] Sierra Boggess: That word has become, I get a little reaction. I'm like, I need to talk, remind myself. And I remember it came from you and Joe.

[11:38] Ramin Karimloo: Yes.

[11:39] Sierra Boggess: And, and thinking about, I think anytime that a word is something that's like, oh, let's, let's try and figure out another way to say this. That just makes you, it just grows you as a human anyways. And like, how great is that, that language that you came up with? I'd encourage you to this. That's, I would, if I was on the other end of that, I would receive that so much better than you should this.

[12:03] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[12:04] Sierra Boggess: You know, should is, it's so final too. It's like, and that some, somebody has decided, whether it's you or someone else, has decided that life is this, you know, and life should this. And it's, and there's a response to that of like, says who?

[12:22] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[12:23] Sierra Boggess: Why do you know? You know, now while we're on the topic of things that, you know, seeds you've planted in my head from all the time ago, lately, anytime I look at a clock, it'll be 11, 11, 444. I've been, and to the point where I kept taking stills and showing mandates, I'm like, look, what is going on? And I remember you had a thought about it. So like right now, every time I, I go on, that's like where it's all the same numbers. Did you just look at the clock?

[13:05] Sierra Boggess: Yes, I did.

[13:06] Ramin Karimloo: It says 3, 2, 3.

[13:07] Sierra Boggess: Right. And if anyone, obviously people aren't going to hear this. I'm FaceTiming Sierra while we do this. So at least I get eye contact. And I saw her eyes go somewhere. I've been doing it as either a moment of gratitude. I'll just say thanks for something or thanks for something that's coming. Now, I don't know if that's what it's meant, the theory for it, but I thought I have to honor it somehow. So for now, those are my two ways, either gratitude for something I have or gratitude for something that's coming. What is it with you and the numbers? What does it mean? What is it with you?

[13:32] Sierra Boggess: Okay. First of all, I think that's great that I think there, again, there is no exact answer. Ain't nobody come down and been like, here's the deal, but what should I be doing? Yeah. I mean, you should be. Um, so yes, I think that that's really a great idea to do the gratitude thing, because the idea is that if you are having a phase and mind the times when that happens to me, it's a phase in my life. And what it apparently it is, is there some like portal awakening happening around your life? So I think that it's the best idea is to go. I'm grateful or I'm grateful for whatever is to come. Also just to say.

[14:26] Sierra Boggess: I'd say it's like for people to talk to whatever they believe is higher than themselves. Whatever that is that you believe is higher than you, and actually not believe, but you know is higher than you. Then to say, I hear you. I got you. I see you. Right. I know you're trying to get my attention. That's what I look at it as. Did you once tell me it signifies that it's just a reminder that you're on the right path?

[14:51] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I think so. That's why I say it's whatever thing is talking to you, being like, you're good, or what your thoughts were at that moment, it could be that's like, yes, that's it. Right. Okay. That was a nice reminder. I think it's a good thing to just look at because it's just another form of awareness too. You know me in numbers. I'm one of the best mathematicians. I mean, you call me for all math questions, right?

[15:18] Sierra Boggess: Yeah. Whenever Hadley stumped, I'm like, hang on. Let's call Auntie C.

[15:25] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. Do you know who would know? Sierra.

[15:27] Sierra Boggess: Yeah. She's all up in that quadratic formula.

[15:31] Ramin Karimloo: She's right up in it.

[15:32] Sierra Boggess: Yep. Pi.

[15:33] Ramin Karimloo: Yes.

[15:33] Sierra Boggess: That's her thing.

[15:35] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. That's my thing. All of it. Okay. I'm literally terrible at math, everybody. I failed math like eight times and I don't know how I could have even, see even eight, I was only in four years in high school. But the fact that numbers, the point is the fact that numbers are kind of my thing right now where it's like, where I see double numbers or triple or whatever it is, and also like life path numbers and all that stuff. It's like, I'm quick at adding like single digit numbers now. Don't test me.

[16:10] Ramin Karimloo: No, I'm not going to test you. One of your heroes is really into numerology.

[16:14] Sierra Boggess: Brene Brown?

[16:15] Ramin Karimloo: Jim Carrey.

[16:16] Sierra Boggess: Jim Carrey?

[16:17] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[16:17] Sierra Boggess: I was like about to go down the list. Does he love numerology?

[16:20] Ramin Karimloo: From what I remember, he's really big into numbers.

[16:24] Sierra Boggess: That makes me love him even more.

[16:26] Ramin Karimloo: But we might have to fact check that.

[16:29] Sierra Boggess: Okay. We'll fact check it.

[16:30] Ramin Karimloo: Because I saw how excited you got and I thought, what if I'm wrong?

[16:34] Sierra Boggess: Well, it doesn't matter. It's not like, well, can you get him on the, why aren't we inviting him to hang with us right now?

[16:39] Ramin Karimloo: Because I'm not John Krasinski. If this was John Krasinski doing some good news, boom.

[16:44] Sierra Boggess: That's true. Then it will be like, ah, dang Ramin.

[16:48] Ramin Karimloo: I hope that keeps going after this lockdown.

[16:52] Sierra Boggess: You literally smile or cry for 15 minutes, but all joy.

[16:56] Ramin Karimloo: Yes. All joy. Totally. It's like, it's exactly what we need, but we've needed this. You know, this kind of stuff that we're going with going through right now, it doesn't happen just all of a sudden it's been a buildup to it. So there has been like a soul calling for something like that. And just knowing about the good thing. Like for me right now, I'm having a role for myself. That's like, I'm actually not looking up any news and it's not to be ignorant. It's because there's nothing right now that I need to know that I don't already know in the sense that I know how bad it is out there. And I know to be respectful and to stay home and to wash my hands. I know this until, and I will know when there is, I can't avoid all news, but I'm not, but I'm not seeking it out. And I'm not watching something that doesn't bring me joy or inform me.

[18:01] Sierra Boggess: Um, and so I, I want to hear from people who have actual knowledge right now, as opposed to people who are just talking out their ass.

[18:05] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. And there's a lot of that going on.

[18:07] Sierra Boggess: There is. And so I, I'm just, when we're in our own four walls, we get to choose, then if we're living here for 24 hours, seven days a week, we get to choose how much poison we're putting into our house and into our minds and stuff, you know?

[18:25] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny you mentioned that because it's being in the positions we're in too, knowing that we do have such great support, supporters who follow us and give us props, come to our shows, on our social media. I'm now trying to think anytime I post something, what value does it have?

[18:46] Sierra Boggess: Yes. Absolutely.

[18:48] Ramin Karimloo: I don't need to be relevant. I don't need to stay, use Instagram to stay relevant.

[18:51] Sierra Boggess: Yep.

[18:52] Ramin Karimloo: That's why lately it's only been musical posts, like singing posts, whether it's my stuff, musicals, folks. I'm like, that's the one thing I can do right now.

[19:00] Sierra Boggess: Sure.

[19:00] Ramin Karimloo: I can't save lives. I can't offer ventilators to hospitals. I'm not in a position to do that. What I can do is stay home, not add to the problem.

[19:11] Sierra Boggess: Yep.

[19:11] Ramin Karimloo: And if I can help bring joy for two, three, four minutes, that's all I can do. Otherwise, I'm back being a dad and I'll carry on doing that.

[19:21] Sierra Boggess: Yep. Just like our thing that we recorded today, which would have been out by the time this comes out. I had so much fun doing that. So I hope people enjoy or did enjoy watching that.

[19:32] Sierra Boggess: Yeah, it's funny. I mean, you and I talked about this, that's like, right when this first was happening, neither of us was singing. Neither of us wanted to sing. And it's only lately that we've both been craving that. And I think it was really good to honor that I don't feel like doing this. I don't feel like singing right now. Just because part of it is music is so healing. And I just say this off of what you said, because people are craving music and people are wanting to see as much as they can and hear as much as they can. But we got to do it when we're ready, because it is so healing. It's almost like I didn't want to be in the healing yet because this was just happening and I needed to be in the situation.

So I was still working. The thing I didn't give up, I was working out and doing yoga and whatever, cleaning, doing everything but what I do for a living. And it was like, okay, so that keeps me feeling like normalcy and alive. But I wasn't ready to contribute in the way that I'm accustomed to contributing. Does that make sense?

[20:51] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. And probably in a way that some people might have been craving of you. I don't want to say expected, but we were getting a lot of requests. I'm just like, I would say to Mandy or some friends like yourself, I was like, it's just not in me to do right now. It won't feel authentic. And then I don't feel it will have value.

[21:07] Sierra Boggess: Right. And it won't help anyone. Right. Because we do want to sing from the place of giving and what the other people need. Because it's one thing to sing in your own house and one thing to sing for yourself, which we should as well, find the joy in what we enjoy singing. But the part of us as artists that is missing when there's no Broadway or West End or school shows or anything is the part where we do this for the other, because it's what they need to hear and feel too. And if we were just singing and giving a ton of content right away, you're almost doing the work for other people, because it doesn't give them the chance to also figure out what they're craving. What exactly are you craving as opposed to just noise?

[22:11] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. How about that?

[22:17] Sierra Boggess: That's beautifully put.

[22:24] Ramin Karimloo: Well, since you dropped such knowledge on us, I think I want to know more and bring us up to speed. And those who don't know, let them in on Light Lessons, your creation.

[22:27] Sierra Boggess: My creation station. So, this sort of started, actually, during Love Never Dies, because we used to pull a word before going on stage. And so, that's so random, actually, to realize that it's during Love Never Dies, that this used to be a thing. And there came a point, so however long ago that was, then there came a point that I, there's certain words and phrases that really speak to me, and that were the ones that I needed to focus on before I went on stage. But then it became bigger, where it's like, I'm realizing in some, it's like so small. It's some way, it's something that other people really, really responded to and needed. So, really quick, for those that don't know, Light Lessons are, it's a bag of words of 20 words or phrases that are things that speak to me, really simple, one word or two words or a phrase or something that you can pull and focus on for the day, or even for the hour, the minute sometimes, or before you go on stage, before you go to a job interview, something to just center your mind. It's really, really helpful to me and for all my friends and everything.

[23:48] Sierra Boggess: So, I designed them with Jane Jordan, who runs Fit for Broadway, and her sister was actually pregnant. And she, the pregnant sister, drew all the, there's really beautiful drawings on each card. And I say the pregnancy thing, because there's a lot of creative energy that happens through pregnancy. And so, it's really special that this other life is growing inside her, and she's, through her arm, is drawing these beautiful drawings.

[24:22] Ramin Karimloo: Wow.

[24:24] Sierra Boggess: And I called them Light Lessons, because I was down at the river in New York in the summertime, and it was night. And all of a sudden, these fireflies started going out and doing their thing and lighten up. And I was like, oh, God. And I literally started meditating on the metaphor that is the firefly. And here it is, y'all. These bugs during the day look like a normal-ass bug that you'd be like, oh, God, not that. And at night, all them lights go out, and all of a sudden, their butt is lighting up. Their literal ass is lighting up. I think it's actually their abdomen or something. It's actually their heartbeat. But I'm like, it looks like their butt. And so, it's like, suddenly, this whole bug is lighting up. And now we're like, oh, my God, this is incredible. And so, I was like, this is the metaphor. It's that when all the darkness is around us, we have the light within us. Light your butt up, y'all.

[25:38] Ramin Karimloo: Nice. It's all in your ass. Or I like the metaphor of it being your heartbeat. Please let an entomologist be listening and like, this lady is crazy. It's actually their thoracic whatever. I don't know what they have.

[25:55] Sierra Boggess: So, on Sierrabagus.com, it's all on there.

[26:00] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[26:00] Sierra Boggess: But the only problem is, and I think we talked about this, sending out of America, shipping gets jacked. I know with some of the stuff I want to, obviously, I wasn't going to do it now with all that's going on. But I looked at shipping costs outside of where we are. It's more expensive than the shirt sometimes.

[26:19] Ramin Karimloo: I know. And customs, it can get caught up in customs and take months to get to somebody.

[26:26] Sierra Boggess: Just like a simple shirt, a simple bag of light lessons. It's like, I'm trying to, I'm really, really trying to figure out how to make this happen. And apparently, if you have, I don't know, if you have another company, then that's how it's easier.

[26:44] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. But then if you do it through Amazon or something, but then they take a massive cut.

[26:48] Sierra Boggess: Yeah. And that compromises the integrity of the thing and stuff. And it's just like, yeah. So, it is really tough because we do-

[26:56] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. I don't want to see light lessons on Amazon. It just doesn't feel right.

[26:59] Sierra Boggess: No, sorry. I'm not anti-Amazon either, because obviously, I use it, but I just don't want to see.

[27:04] Ramin Karimloo: I just don't think you're-

[27:05] Sierra Boggess: No.

[27:05] Ramin Karimloo: No.

[27:06] Sierra Boggess: It doesn't go together, does it?

[27:07] Ramin Karimloo: No. Absolutely not. No way. So, yeah, we're going to try and figure it out. But in the meantime, with your merchandise and mine, when we concert out of the country, then we bring our merch. So, that's really nice. And then people can get it like that.

[27:23] Sierra Boggess: You're going to bring it to Japan?

[27:24] Ramin Karimloo: Bring it to Japan. Absolutely.

[27:27] Sierra Boggess: Good. I can finally get one for me and the boys.

[27:29] Ramin Karimloo: Yes. June, I can't believe you don't have one yet.

[27:32] Sierra Boggess: Well, no, because the last time when I thought I want to get it-

[27:34] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah. You weren't here.

[27:35] Sierra Boggess: I still haven't seen you. I haven't been.

[27:42] Ramin Karimloo: Thanks for tuning in with The Hang and me and Sierra Boggess. Join us next time for part two, where we get to dive into The Reunion, The Phantom of the Opera 25th Anniversary, and Love Never Dies.

[27:56] Ramin Karimloo: The Hang is produced by Dori Beristain and Alan Seals from the Broadway Podcast Network. You can find me online at epn.fm forward slash The Hang. Don't forget, you can connect with me on Instagram and Twitter at Ramin Karimloo. On YouTube, A Roaming Iranian. Or my Facebook page, Official Ramin Karimloo. Music for my podcast is by my friends and one of my favorite bands, The Dives. Please check them out at their website, thedivesmusic.com. That's thedivesmusic.com, where you can get to know them, hear their incredible music, get links to all their socials, and most importantly, their tour dates, where you can find out where you can see and hear them live. They are truly a great band, and they are phenomenal live. Check them out.