This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Ramin Karimloo: Hi, I'm Ramin Karimloo, and welcome to my podcast, The Hang, where I get to hang out with some of my friends and get some much-needed face-to-face time and talk about, well, whatever.

[0:13] Ramin Karimloo: Welcome back. This is Part 2 of my Hang with my prolific artist friend, Hadley Fraser.

[0:19] Ramin Karimloo: Let's pick up where we left off in Part 1, where we just started getting into the Phantom of the Opera 25th anniversary.

[0:25] Hadley Fraser: I don't spend an awful lot of time, and I never used to, listening to musicals, but those are the two that I did when I was at university.

[0:35] Hadley Fraser: Blood, Money, Damn For All Time. You could sing it right now.

[0:37] Ramin Karimloo: Not at pitch.

[0:38] Hadley Fraser: No, I mean words.

[0:39] Hadley Fraser: My God, I saw him, he looked three quarters dead.

[0:42] Ramin Karimloo: No, the first one.

[0:43] Hadley Fraser: Now if I help you, it matters that you see.

[0:45] Ramin Karimloo: Next line.

[0:46] Hadley Fraser: Now if I help you, it matters that you see. This sort of kind of things are coming hard to me. It's taken me some time to work out what to do. Is that right?

[0:54] Ramin Karimloo: Yes.

[0:55] Hadley Fraser: I'd made the whole thing up before I came to you. I had no thoughts at all about my own reward.

[0:59] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, but at this point, the orchestra's there are four bars ahead of you.

[1:02] Hadley Fraser: Yeah, that's true.

[1:03] Ramin Karimloo: Well done, brother.

[1:04] Hadley Fraser: I wouldn't be able to do that for Les Mis, which I've done, what, 800 shows of?

[1:09] Ramin Karimloo: I thought Phantom's the one thing that's going to be stamped in my brain.

[1:13] Hadley Fraser: Yeah, really?

[1:14] Ramin Karimloo: No.

[1:15] Hadley Fraser: See, actually, this is something that I find quite funny is people have a natural assumption that I know an awful lot about Phantom because of the 25th.

[1:27] Hadley Fraser: Dude, I only did those three shows.

[1:29] Ramin Karimloo: That's it?

[1:30] Hadley Fraser: And I didn't remember half of that.

[1:32] Hadley Fraser: So it's lovely because it obviously made such an impression on people, that production.

[1:39] Ramin Karimloo: Are you still getting tweets?

[1:41] Hadley Fraser: I still get a lot of love for it and it's wonderful and I love it, but I sort of don't have the ability necessarily to respond as much because I don't know it.

[1:51] Ramin Karimloo: How much of that time do you remember?

[1:54] Hadley Fraser: Very little because we only had two weeks to rehearse.

[1:56] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[1:57] Hadley Fraser: And I was still doing Javert in the evening.

[2:00] Ramin Karimloo: That's right.

[2:01] Hadley Fraser: So I was going in to do Les Mis at night.

[2:05] Hadley Fraser: So I really don't.

[2:07] Hadley Fraser: I've told this story before, but I'm sure if you look on the DVD, the split second before we start singing the duets.

[2:14] Ramin Karimloo: All I ask of you.

[2:15] Hadley Fraser: Yeah.

[2:16] Ramin Karimloo: Good job.

[2:17] Hadley Fraser: I didn't.

[2:18] Hadley Fraser: I was convinced I didn't know the next line.

[2:22] Ramin Karimloo: That's an awkward song, though, because the words.

[2:25] Hadley Fraser: Yeah.

[2:26] Hadley Fraser: It's just almost the same, but they're not.

[2:28] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I know.

[2:29] Hadley Fraser: Is this where I say this one or this one?

[2:31] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[2:32] Hadley Fraser: But, dude, that was the 25th anniversary at the Albert Hall going live to cinema.

[2:36] Hadley Fraser: And I was like, I don't know what's coming next.

[2:38] Ramin Karimloo: I hope.

[2:39] Hadley Fraser: And there it is.

[2:40] Ramin Karimloo: Listen, I felt for you.

[2:41] Hadley Fraser: I mean, Sierra had history with it, at least.

[2:43] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[2:44] Hadley Fraser: And Andrew remembered your names.

[2:46] Ramin Karimloo: Well, I remember then.

[2:49] Hadley Fraser: Yeah.

[2:50] Hadley Fraser: You were just grabbing my arm.

[2:52] Ramin Karimloo: Why was it with both anniversaries, Les Mis and Phantom, we were side by side for all our bows?

[2:58] Hadley Fraser: And we're like children.

[3:01] Hadley Fraser: You can't just bow, can you?

[3:02] Ramin Karimloo: Either one of us is standing on each other's toes or your elbow is going into my side.

[3:06] Hadley Fraser: But we still have to keep a straight face.

[3:09] Ramin Karimloo: That's part of the joy of it.

[3:11] Hadley Fraser: What happened that speech?

[3:12] Ramin Karimloo: He's like, thank you, Ramin.

[3:14] Ramin Karimloo: Ramin, you were the modern day Phantom.

[3:16] Ramin Karimloo: I am so proud of our association.

[3:18] Ramin Karimloo: And you are the epitome of the Phantom.

[3:21] Ramin Karimloo: Sierra, thank you so much.

[3:22] Ramin Karimloo: You are my Christine for the 21st century.

[3:25] Ramin Karimloo: I couldn't be more proud of you.

[3:27] Hadley Fraser: And then he turned around to me and he looked me in the eye.

[3:29] Hadley Fraser: And he went, and this is in front of the Albert Hall.

[3:31] Hadley Fraser: And he went, and haven't we had a lovely time?

[3:37] Ramin Karimloo: And then he went, that's fine.

[3:39] Hadley Fraser: That's fine.

[3:40] Hadley Fraser: That's fine, that one.

[3:42] Ramin Karimloo: God bless him.

[3:43] Hadley Fraser: No, I mean, I'm very proud of it.

[3:45] Hadley Fraser: I'm very proud of our involvement.

[3:46] Hadley Fraser: And actually, and I sort of think about what we achieved in those two weeks was quite remarkable.

[3:50] Hadley Fraser: I mean, we never teched the second act.

[3:54] Hadley Fraser: And so to have got through that was quite something.

[3:58] Hadley Fraser: And I sort of thank you and Sierra really for sort of holding my hand through most of that and sort of dragging me through.

[4:06] Hadley Fraser: But I don't know, maybe I'll go back to that show in the years to come.

[4:09] Hadley Fraser: I confess, not one that I have a sort of burning desire to go back to.

[4:13] Hadley Fraser: Because I suppose I feel like maybe this is going back to some of the conversation we've already had.

[4:17] Hadley Fraser: There is so much out there.

[4:20] Hadley Fraser: There's so many new things to discover, I suppose.

[4:23] Hadley Fraser: At the moment, the thing that I find most satisfying is the variety of what's new.

[4:29] Ramin Karimloo: I mean, I'm sort of contradicting myself slightly given that I'm going back into City of Angels next year.

[4:35] Hadley Fraser: But that didn't have a full West End run.

[4:36] Ramin Karimloo: No, that's true.

[4:37] Hadley Fraser: We only did, I suppose, must have been about seven weeks of it.

[4:39] Ramin Karimloo: Because I'm sure at that time, there was, I'm sure, even hopes of a transfer.

[4:45] Hadley Fraser: Yeah, it came very close.

[4:46] Hadley Fraser: But for whatever reason, that didn't work out.

[4:48] Hadley Fraser: And so I suppose I'd always felt like unfinished business.

[4:51] Ramin Karimloo: So yeah, thanks for digging me out of that hole.

[4:54] Hadley Fraser: But also, you have that desire and that excitement for new and the diversity that you talked about.

[5:05] Ramin Karimloo: Because you also write.

[5:06] Hadley Fraser: And you are writing.

[5:08] Hadley Fraser: And you're contributing to that diversity.

[5:10] Ramin Karimloo: I suppose so, yeah.

[5:11] Hadley Fraser: And new works.

[5:12] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, I guess so.

[5:13] Hadley Fraser: I suppose that also, and I don't know how you feel about this, that also comes down to that thing of when you have done something for 20 years, you kind of go, oh, I have a vague idea of how to do it.

[5:21] Ramin Karimloo: No, I'm not going to be English about this.

[5:23] Hadley Fraser: I have an idea of how to do this now.

[5:25] Hadley Fraser: And I would like a little bit more.

[5:27] Hadley Fraser: I would like to have a bit more agency.

[5:30] Ramin Karimloo: So I suppose writing or directing is that sort of thing where you feel like you potentially have a little bit more agency as someone who's been in the business.

[5:40] Ramin Karimloo: Because you went to university in Birmingham?

[5:42] Hadley Fraser: Correct.

[5:43] Ramin Karimloo: For English literature?

[5:44] Hadley Fraser: English literature and language and theatre.

[5:48] Hadley Fraser: So I did, well, it was called joint honours.

[5:52] Hadley Fraser: So, yeah.

[5:53] Ramin Karimloo: Amazing.

[5:54] Hadley Fraser: I wasn't very good at English language stuff.

[5:56] Hadley Fraser: All the grammar stuff left me kind of cold.

[5:59] Ramin Karimloo: You're a wonderful orator.

[6:01] Hadley Fraser: But I enjoyed English literature, the seminars that I did turn up to.

[6:08] Ramin Karimloo: Did you have sort of a writing bug then?

[6:12] Hadley Fraser: No, I really didn't, actually.

[6:13] Hadley Fraser: And there were other contemporaries of mine that really did.

[6:16] Hadley Fraser: And they've gone on to some success, I suppose.

[6:19] Hadley Fraser: I was keen to be an actor, which is why I think probably now I don't regret going to university.

[6:24] Hadley Fraser: But I suppose if I had my time again, I think I would probably go on to a drama school, a drama college.

[6:29] Ramin Karimloo: Really?

[6:30] Hadley Fraser: Yeah.

[6:31] Hadley Fraser: Yeah, I think.

[6:32] Ramin Karimloo: What do you think you missed out on?

[6:34] Hadley Fraser: That's a really good question.

[6:38] Hadley Fraser: I'm not entirely sure, but I think I'd like to finesse just a little bit more of my technique earlier on and not relied upon instinct.

[6:45] Ramin Karimloo: Is that fair to say?

[6:46] Hadley Fraser: I get you, yeah.

[6:47] Hadley Fraser: And I think I'm now much keener to search out technique and all of that sort of stuff than I was back then.

[6:55] Ramin Karimloo: Technique as an actor.

[6:58] Hadley Fraser: Yeah, exactly that.

[6:59] Hadley Fraser: And my course was actually very practical at the time.

[7:01] Hadley Fraser: The Birmingham University drama course was a very practical one.

[7:05] Hadley Fraser: So we got to do an awful lot of performance and all that.

[7:08] Ramin Karimloo: So what do you mean technique as an actor then?

[7:10] Hadley Fraser: Because if you do your prep, you've learned your lines, you show up to day one, but you're not using the example of the Stanislavski actioning.

[7:18] Hadley Fraser: Yeah, exactly.

[7:19] Hadley Fraser: Yeah, I suppose there are things like those schools of dramatic technique that I wish I was slightly better.

[7:29] Ramin Karimloo: So whether it's Meisner, whether it's Stanislavski.

[7:31] Hadley Fraser: Exactly that.

[7:33] Hadley Fraser: So, you know, when you get there, like, this will serve this piece better.

[7:35] Ramin Karimloo: Exactly that.

[7:36] Hadley Fraser: And that sort of links back to that thing of going, what's the authorial intent here?

[7:39] Hadley Fraser: You know, if you're doing a piece of David Mamet, I think it's really helpful to have read David Mamet's books upon performance.

[7:45] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[7:46] Hadley Fraser: Have you read True or False?

[7:47] Ramin Karimloo: I haven't.

[7:48] Hadley Fraser: Great.

[7:49] Hadley Fraser: Yeah.

[7:50] Hadley Fraser: And I like that idea of just like not prepping for the endgame.

[7:53] Hadley Fraser: You prep for that first step.

[7:54] Ramin Karimloo: Right.

[7:56] Hadley Fraser: See, that's something I go, I should go away and read that.

[7:59] Hadley Fraser: It's been a while since I read it and I'm right away thinking someone who has read it recently, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[8:05] Hadley Fraser: But I suppose that's the only thing that I would sort of do differently.

[8:09] Hadley Fraser: I mean, and then I left to go to the Royal Academy of Music to do the musical theatre postgrad, which was great.

[8:14] Hadley Fraser: And that helped hone a certain amount of singing technique, I suppose.

[8:19] Hadley Fraser: And did a bit of dance as well, which I guess helped.

[8:24] Ramin Karimloo: Which we saw on Frankenstein.

[8:25] Hadley Fraser: There you go.

[8:26] Hadley Fraser: A little bit of that.

[8:27] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah.

[8:28] Hadley Fraser: And there was some acting on that course, but I suppose really not quite as much as I'd had at university.

[8:32] Ramin Karimloo: So I can't remember where I was going with this.

[8:35] Hadley Fraser: How you wanted to be.

[8:37] Ramin Karimloo: Oh, versatility.

[8:38] Hadley Fraser: Yeah.

[8:39] Hadley Fraser: So.

[8:40] Hadley Fraser: With your acting technique.

[8:41] Ramin Karimloo: So all of that kind of stuff.

[8:42] Hadley Fraser: But now I suppose there's an awful lot of stuff that I did in English literature that I now go, ah, that's the stuff that I'm coming back to with the writing.

[8:49] Hadley Fraser: So in terms of narrative structure, in terms of characterisation, in terms of plot, in terms of, you know, putting a piece together.

[8:56] Hadley Fraser: And I'm going back now and I'm wishing I'd paid a lot more attention in my English literature classes and I'd read all the things that were on this.

[9:06] Ramin Karimloo: So what was the first step at writing that you went, oh, well, or someone approached you said, can you write this? How did they know you're a writer?

[9:12] Hadley Fraser: The first one that had been that has been performed was committee that we wrote for Donmar Warehouse two, three years ago.

[9:26] Ramin Karimloo: That the first time you put pen to paper?

[9:28] Hadley Fraser: No, I'd done actually quite a bit before then.

[9:31] Hadley Fraser: I mean, we had collaborated on Houdini.

[9:34] Ramin Karimloo: Houdini.

[9:35] Hadley Fraser: Was that the first time?

[9:36] Hadley Fraser: No, I'd written while I was living in the States.

[9:39] Hadley Fraser: So this would have been about 2007, 2008.

[9:42] Hadley Fraser: I had a relatively fallow period where I wasn't working all that much.

[9:46] Hadley Fraser: I couldn't work really apart from in the entertainment industry because of the visa that I had.

[9:53] Hadley Fraser: The joys of pilot season.

[9:54] Ramin Karimloo: The joys of pilot season.

[9:55] Hadley Fraser: I think it's going to be busy.

[9:56] Hadley Fraser: And you're not.

[9:57] Hadley Fraser: And you're on Venice Beach for after time.

[9:58] Ramin Karimloo: Which is lovely.

[9:59] Hadley Fraser: But then there was a part of me that went, what am I doing?

[10:01] Hadley Fraser: I'm just wasting time.

[10:02] Ramin Karimloo: Too much of a good thing.

[10:03] Hadley Fraser: Absolutely.

[10:04] Hadley Fraser: So I wrote a short film script and I wrote a play script, neither of which I'm glad have ever been produced.

[10:09] Ramin Karimloo: You did it just to pass time and just to keep your brain.

[10:12] Hadley Fraser: Yes, I suppose.

[10:13] Hadley Fraser: I suppose so.

[10:14] Hadley Fraser: Also, because out there there is a very admirable trait, I think, especially in L.A. of creating one's own work and creating one's own opportunities, which I hear.

[10:24] Hadley Fraser: I don't think we're as good as I think one tends to get sort of parked into a box as you are an actor.

[10:30] Ramin Karimloo: You are a singer.

[10:31] Hadley Fraser: You are a writer.

[10:32] Hadley Fraser: You are a director, whatever.

[10:34] Hadley Fraser: Whereas I think in New York, in L.A., in the States, there is much more sort of acceptance of a diversification.

[10:40] Ramin Karimloo: And I want to do this now and a support in terms of doing it.

[10:44] Hadley Fraser: So you must feel the change of that happening over here now.

[10:48] Ramin Karimloo: I think you're right.

[10:49] Ramin Karimloo: I think there is a bit more of a support network there.

[10:52] Hadley Fraser: But certainly when we were starting out, I think that there was a bit more.

[10:55] Ramin Karimloo: Oh yeah.

[10:56] Hadley Fraser: One hundred percent of pigeonholing going on.

[10:58] Ramin Karimloo: Remember that thing of like, I just can't get into TV.

[11:01] Hadley Fraser: Which is insane.

[11:02] Ramin Karimloo: Which is crazy, really.

[11:05] Hadley Fraser: So you started dabbling.

[11:06] Hadley Fraser: So I'd written, yeah.

[11:07] Hadley Fraser: I mean, we did a few readings of the play that I did.

[11:10] Hadley Fraser: But now when I think about it, I did a very, very classic thing.

[11:15] Hadley Fraser: And I'm still something of a novice writer.

[11:17] Hadley Fraser: But I started writing the play without having done any sort of work in terms of plotting it out, in terms of structure.

[11:26] Ramin Karimloo: And now I'd never do that.

[11:28] Hadley Fraser: I would always structure something first and then go in and write something.

[11:32] Hadley Fraser: So it was fortune, really.

[11:35] Hadley Fraser: I had worked with Josie Rourke, who was the then artistic director of the Donmar Warehouse.

[11:41] Hadley Fraser: She's directing City of Angels.

[11:42] Hadley Fraser: We had worked together four or five times as actor and director.

[11:46] Hadley Fraser: And I think we had talked about writing.

[11:49] Hadley Fraser: And she was keen for a new piece of music theatre to happen at the Donmar.

[11:55] Hadley Fraser: I mean, we co-wrote the book and the lyrics for that one.

[11:59] Ramin Karimloo: For Community.

[12:03] Hadley Fraser: For Community.

[12:04] Hadley Fraser: And I think Josie just sort of went, look, I believe in you guys.

[12:07] Hadley Fraser: I think that you have the wherewithal to do this.

[12:13] Ramin Karimloo: And at that point, had she read any of your previous stuff to even start this conversation with you?

[12:17] Hadley Fraser: I'm not even sure she had done.

[12:18] Hadley Fraser: She must have done.

[12:19] Hadley Fraser: Yeah, I think she had.

[12:20] Hadley Fraser: I think she'd read, because Tom and I had been working on something else, another, an adaptation of an Edgar Allen Poe story that hasn't happened.

[12:27] Ramin Karimloo: Yeah, and that was around the Houdini time.

[12:29] Hadley Fraser: That was around the Houdini time.

[12:30] Hadley Fraser: Because Houdini also got a bit of what people started talking, they knew about it.

[12:56] Ramin Karimloo: Welcome back to The Hang with Hadley Fraser. We’re diving right back into our conversation.

[13:26] Ramin Karimloo: So, Hadley, you’ve had such a diverse career. What’s been the most surprising role you’ve taken on?

[13:56] Hadley Fraser: I think the most surprising role for me was probably when I did the concert version of "Chess." It was such a different style from what I was used to, and it really pushed me out of my comfort zone.

[14:26] Ramin Karimloo: That’s fascinating! I remember seeing you in that. You really brought something special to the character.

[14:56] Hadley Fraser: Thank you! It was a challenge, but I loved every minute of it. The music is just so powerful.

[15:26] Ramin Karimloo: Absolutely. And speaking of powerful music, you’ve also written some of your own. How does that process differ for you compared to performing someone else’s work?

[15:56] Hadley Fraser: Writing is a completely different beast. When you’re writing, you’re not just interpreting someone else’s vision; you’re creating your own. It’s incredibly rewarding but also daunting.

[16:26] Ramin Karimloo: I can imagine! Do you find that your experiences as a performer influence your writing?

[16:56] Hadley Fraser: Definitely. My experiences on stage inform the stories I want to tell and the characters I want to create. It’s all interconnected.

[17:26] Ramin Karimloo: That’s a beautiful way to look at it. You’ve also worked in film and television. How does that compare to stage work for you?

[17:56] Hadley Fraser: Film and TV are much more about subtlety. On stage, you have to project your emotions to the back row, but on screen, it’s all about the nuance.

[18:26] Ramin Karimloo: That’s a great point. Do you have a preference between the two mediums?

[18:56] Hadley Fraser: I love them both for different reasons. The immediacy of live theater is thrilling, but there’s something magical about the intimacy of film.

[19:26] Ramin Karimloo: I completely agree. It’s nice to have that variety in your career.

[19:56] Hadley Fraser: Yes, it keeps things fresh and exciting. Plus, I love collaborating with different artists across various platforms.

[20:26] Ramin Karimloo: Collaboration is key in our industry. Speaking of which, what’s been one of your favorite collaborations?

[20:56] Hadley Fraser: I’d have to say working with you on "Les Misérables." It was such a special experience, and I learned so much from you.

[21:26] Ramin Karimloo: Thank you! That means a lot. It was a joy to share the stage with you.

[21:56] Hadley Fraser: Likewise! Those memories are some of my favorites.

[22:26] Ramin Karimloo: It’s incredible how those experiences shape us as artists.

[22:56] Hadley Fraser: Absolutely. They stay with you forever.

[23:26] Ramin Karimloo: Well, I’m grateful for our friendship and all the moments we’ve shared.

[23:56] Hadley Fraser: Me too, Ramin. Here’s to many more!

[24:26] Ramin Karimloo: Cheers to that!

[24:56] Ramin Karimloo: The Hang is produced by Dori Berinstein and Alan Seales from the Broadway Podcast Network.

[25:01] Ramin Karimloo: You can find me online at epn.fm forward slash The Hang.

[25:06] Ramin Karimloo: Don't forget you can connect with me on Instagram and Twitter at Ramin Karimloo, on YouTube, A Roaming Iranian, or my Facebook page, Official Ramin Karimloo.

[25:17] Ramin Karimloo: Music for my podcast is by my friends in one of my favorite bands, The Dives.

[25:22] Ramin Karimloo: Please check them out at their website, thedivesmusic.com.

[25:26] Ramin Karimloo: That's thedivesmusic.com, where you can get to know them, hear their incredible music, get links to all their socials, and most importantly, their tour dates, where you can find out where you can see and hear them live.

[25:38] Ramin Karimloo: They are truly a great band, and they are phenomenal live. Check them out.