This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally and welcome to Musicals with Cheese and today it's an extra special episode during Andrew's hiatus away. I am joined by my two co-hosts of the Dear Friends Podcast and people you guys just know, of course you know it. Of course, it is Christi Esterle of Musical Hell and Emily Clark of Stealing Focus. Yeah! I'm so happy you guys are here today and when we're recording this, it is literally like two days after the big announcement, the announcement to end all announcements of Musical Theater 4.

[0:50] Christi Esterle: I was in choir rehearsal and then all of a sudden it's like, holy shit, my Twitter's blowing up.

[0:58] Emily Clark: Yeah, it was a thing where I think I was at work or grad school or something and I come back to my phone and I was like, well, I've missed some stuff.

[1:10] Jesse McAnally: I remember it happening and my phone was like, yo, it's time. Actually, my friend, Ryan Scott Oliver, I think was the one, I saw it on Twitter and then Ryan texted me literally like 30 seconds later and he's like, did you see, did you see this is happening? I was like, I know, like literally since we saw this musical in San Francisco before Broadway since 2003 and in 2003, we've been speculating. And honestly, it's been in development almost that long.

[1:38] Christi Esterle: That whole freaking time. I will never forget going on the Universal Backlot tour a good decade, 15 years ago, and seeing that Wicked poster there, like them going, we have this, we own this, we're never letting it go. And if it takes us 30, 40 years, we're going to be the ones to do this shit.

[2:01] Jesse McAnally: The Wicked movie has been, like, has there been another movie, except Phantom maybe, that has been this hype?

[2:09] Emily Clark: I mean, you know, Wicked is such a tentpole in a lot of ways. I think it's going to go down in history as this important marker between the Broadway before and the Broadway after, because it's like taking what we did with the 80s mega musicals in terms of merch and commodity and kicking that up a notch, you know, in a post Disney world or post Disney on Broadway world.

[2:36] Christi Esterle: Yeah. Honestly, it's going to be a cultural touchstone too. I mean, we're already, I mean, I guess it's 18 years old, so, you know, we're seeing that new generation who, you know, grew up with, this was their, you know, first musical, the way, you know, Rent and, you know, the Lloyd Webber shows were for generations past.

[2:52] Emily Clark: Yeah. And it set this new standard for how women on Broadway are supposed to sing. For better or worse, you've got to scrout that F in the mask and be damned if you mix it or go into your soprano, I'm just saying.

[3:06] Jesse McAnally: I do want to pause here. We are talking about the Wicked film. I have never had a full conversation with you guys about what we think of the Wicked musical. It, once again, different generations, it's hit differently for different age groups. So I'm very curious, like I've basically never been in the theater community where Wicked hadn't existed.

[3:28] Christi Esterle: Oh yeah. I mean, I, when it came out, I very much tie Wicked and a lot of other musicals from that time to my college years. I remember, like, driving around, going to San Francisco in the middle of the night to go to a gay club and my best friend sitting next to me and going, him going, let's listen to Defying Gravity again, let's do it, because we were so obsessed. I'm glad I wasn't a little kid though, because I, well, maybe not glad is the right word. If I was a little kid, I probably would have been insanely obsessed. I just loved it and I saw it, but I've only seen it on stage once. We did a reading of it in Play Club once, which was fun. But yeah, I like Wicked a lot. I'm not obsessed with it, but I like it a lot.

[4:21] Emily Clark: It's the same. It's the same. I'm older than everybody else here, so I was very much the 80s mega musical generation, Les Mis and Phantom and even Cats, where that was my thing growing up. I see the younger girls who were like 14, 15 at the time, Wicked was their thing. I wasn't of that generation and didn't have it, but I definitely get it because that's what I went through with different shows.

[4:51] Christi Esterle: It's a fun score. I mean, it's not Sondheim, but it's neat and it's catchy and you've got some great female solos and duets in there. So yeah. It's a fun show.

[5:02] Emily Clark: It's a good Stephen Schwartz show. I'm a fan of Schwartz. I like that he, to me, he's like this perfect medium between Sondheim and Lloyd Webber, whereas Sondheim is all intellect and all difficult stuff and difficult harmony, whereas Angela Webber is all just first chorus, first chorus, first chorus, first chorus, modulate, first chorus. And I think Stephen Schwartz is a good middle ground because he does write, he can write intricate and deep things, but he also knows how to write a good banger, you know? And he always has since the 70s. Pippin is full of bangers, so.

[5:35] Christi Esterle: Yeah. And Defying Gravity, I swear to God, I have been on long car trips and that comes up and it is like a shot in the arm. That's like my five hour caffeine right there. It's like, OK, I can do this.

[5:45] Emily Clark: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, there isn't the backlash that you get with a lot of popular musicals 20 years down the road. There is some, I think.

[5:56] Christi Esterle: Wicked? There's backlash for everything nowadays. It drives me crazy.

[6:02] Emily Clark: I mean, yes, yes. But there isn't like the let's re-look at Wicked the way there is a let's re-evaluate Rent or Book of Mormon.

[6:11] Christi Esterle: Yeah. And you know, part of that is, you know, being associated with that younger female fan base. And there's always going to be people who look down on it because of that. So I also remember, you know, it's based off of the book by Gregory Maguire and and his books. I read I read Wicked. I read The Confessions of a Stepsister One. You know, that was kind of his oeuvre was like before Disney was doing it was right. Let me give you the villain origin story and they were misunderstood. It's really dark and complicated.

[6:46] Emily Clark: It's dark and political. There's like animal orgies in it. Like, yeah, there is like this, you know, all this philosophical stuff. And yeah, and realism and existentialism. And yes, there's that weird scene in the Philosophy Club. I did an at the source about this and I'm like, yeah, this is this is very different from the musical.

[7:04] Christi Esterle: So yeah, I remember reading that when so I read the book like right before I saw the musical in like two or three. And I remember reading that going, I don't think they're going to put this on stage. And but I do remember when I saw the show. So in the book, if you folks haven't read the book, she does. She cannot Elphaba cannot touch water. Water actually does affect her. So she like cleans herself with oils and she has, you know, it's Oz, it's Magic World. And in the stage show, obviously it's like, oh, it's just a rumor. And then she fakes it so she can run away with Fiyero in the end. Right. And in the book, spoiler alert, now she just she just dies. Just just like how she does. Possibly be dead in the future versions. I don't know. I've only read up to Son of a Witch, so I have no idea what's going on.

[7:56] Emily Clark: Yeah, I read Son of a Witch, too, and I didn't love it.

[7:56] Christi Esterle: Yeah. Son of the Witch made me realize maybe I don't want. Yeah, exactly. Same here. I was like, you know what? Wicked is good. That's good for me. I'm good with it. Yeah, I don't need to see this whole, you know, deconstruction of Oz done several times over. And I think the book is clearly taking its inspiration from the books of The Wizard of Oz.

[8:20] Emily Clark: Yes. Whereas Wicked, I think for obvious reasons, is pulling more, obviously using the structure from the book, but pulling more from the pop culture we know from the film, from the anime film.

[8:30] Christi Esterle: Right. But brilliantly so. I will say that is one of the most brilliant pieces where they just legally, like, ollie-oop their way away from lawsuits at every turn. Yeah, they use just enough of Somewhere Over the Rainbow and adjust it just enough so that, you know, they can't, you can't sue them. But when you know it's there, it's like, ah. You get it.

[8:50] Emily Clark: Yeah. It's not like Bad Cinderella, but it's there. I'm a bad Cinderella. And also the ruby slippers. I'm in my little chair, gonna throw it across the room, cause I'm a feminist. I'm a boss babe! I'm not, I'm not like other girls. I wear plaid. Right, yeah. I'm a different Cinderella. I make dresses. I'm just conflating them all. Just conflating all the girls. They're all the same show. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was, I watched Ever After in the theaters. You are not doing anything original here. I'm sorry. I saw Brandy's Cinderella. That was a, that was yeah, that's some good stuff.

[9:29] Christi Esterle: Yeah, definitely. Um, but also like with the ruby slippers where they shine the light, make them slow. So yeah, but the light was such a brilliant way where they're like, fuck you. It's not technically ruby slippers. It's not technically red. It's not!

[9:43] Emily Clark: Yeah. We get, we cheated. There's so many brilliant things done there. And I also have gone on record many times of saying Wicked is like the perfect musical adaptation because it's just enough of something everyone is familiar with where anyone can walk in, but you're not going to know every word, every line of the plot. It's not like Frozen the musical. It is of a property, but yeah. I mean, it's that same high that Disney's been chasing since they've never been able to get the rights to Wicked. So they just keep remaking that story with different villains of theirs, you know.

[10:16] Christi Esterle: And then don't forget the first one, Oz the Great and Awful, which was, Sam Raimi directed that. My boy, look what you've done. Oh, the witch was just a jealous ex-girlfriend. What the hell? That's, that's how we go crazy. Apparently it is.

[10:37] Jesse McAnally: We all just want James Franco wizard, apparently.

[10:42] Christi Esterle: Apparently we all want this or this average looking potted. I want Joel Grey wizard. Do you know who was originally cast as a wizard though before James Franco? It was Robert Downey Jr. Like they had actually started shooting with him.

[10:52] Emily Clark: I would have signed up for that. I mean, come on.

[10:57] Christi Esterle: I would have too. That movie would have actually worked okay with him because he would have improv'd his way through it and lay on his charm and all that. He's really good at doing, you know, that guy who's kind of jerky, but you know, there's something a little deeper underneath it. You still kind of want him?

[11:12] Emily Clark: Yeah.

[11:12] Christi Esterle: Yeah. And the role was conceived for him. He was like one of the original producers and all that. Like he was on there before the director was on there and then shooting kind of fell apart and he left. And then, you know, James Franco stepped in and he, he, he's what he is.

[11:30] Jesse McAnally: Back to Wicked. So the movie has been announced, John M. Chu. This has been in development since the day it came out. What were some other big rumors of Elphaba and Glinda over the years?

[11:42] Christi Esterle: I feel like every single time in the past, like let's say five years, when they had some, they had so many flippin' retrospective birthday concerts for Wicked in the past few years. Like, what is that, first of all? And I feel like every single one of them was an audition. I feel like every single one was like them trying to figure out how, how to do this, how to make this work.

[12:06] Emily Clark: And it basically cycles through, you know, whoever's popular at the time, whoever's, you know, most easily associated with it. I mean, you know, obviously at the beginning, they were talking Idina and Kristen, fourth elites, and then they kind of aged out.

[12:18] Christi Esterle: Right, back in the day.

[12:19] Emily Clark: And then he came around and everyone was saying Lea Michele should do it. And then, you know, the Descendants came around and everyone said Duff Cameron should do it. So.

[12:27] Christi Esterle: Was there ever a Vanessa Hudgens rumor?

[12:29] Emily Clark: I feel like there should have been. I mean, I was actually kind of pulling for her after Rent because I was like, she could do it. I, I, I love Vanessa Hudgens. I, I love the turn she's made in the past decade. I mean, she's, you know, she has her issues.

[12:45] Christi Esterle: Yes.

[12:46] Emily Clark: Yeah, she's really, she's really grown into her abilities and good for her.

[13:11] Christi Esterle: Happy is what happens when your dreams come true.

[13:27] Emily Clark: We love you, Linda. We may be so frank, but thank the dead. For all this joy we know, we've got to thank, thank the dead. That means a wizard, Linda, and fiancé.

[13:39] Christi Esterle: We couldn't be cuddlier. She couldn't be lovelier. We couldn't be luckier. I couldn't be happier than today. Today. Thank the dead for the dead.

[14:00] Jess McAnally: So Vanessa Hudgens is great, and I think would have been good in a Wicked movie. What was some of the weirder ones thrown out there? Amanda Seyfried apparently really, really wanted Glinda.

[14:12] Christi Esterle: She's like, I was a maid for this role, and if I don't get it, I don't know what I'll do. I remember that quote. Within the last two years, she said that.

[14:21] Emily Clark: I mean, she's a wonderful actor, obviously. There's no doubt in my mind she could have acted it well, and she's not a bad singer, obviously, but I don't think she has the power necessary for the role.

[14:33] Jess McAnally: I think no matter what, unless you actually de-aged Kristen Chenoweth and or got a Broadway actress, which, spoiler alert, this is Hollywood. They weren't going to get a Broadway actress.

[14:44] Christi Esterle: I think no matter who they picked, somebody was going to be disappointed about who they picked as Glinda because it is a deceptively difficult role. You have to do a good legit. You have to do a good belt. She has a hell of a character arc.

[14:58] Emily Clark: Yeah, it's so funny how people are so shocked. I think this is something, though, I was kind of like when I was a 17-year-old theater kid, which I think are the ones who were so shocked about the casting.

[15:12] Christi Esterle: To me, I'm like, this is win-win casting for Broadway and Hollywood. To me, it's like they were always going to get a Broadway name who was big, and they were going to get a superstar.

[15:26] Jess McAnally: Somebody who'd done some Broadway so they could say that they met in Hollywood.

[15:30] Christi Esterle: But knows how to act for film.

[15:32] Emily Clark: And we're really lucky because Cynthia Erivo in the past few years has been nominated for an Oscar. She's a prestige actor and a Tony Award winning musical theater performer. So, again, win-win. You got that.

[15:46] Jess McAnally: And, what, the first black Elphaba?

[15:49] Christi Esterle: Apparently.

[15:50] Jess McAnally: Is this right?

[15:51] Christi Esterle: Yeah, they never actually had a black principal Elphaba on Broadway.

[15:57] Jess McAnally: Yeah, maybe an understudy.

[15:59] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[16:00] Jess McAnally: Wow. I mean, so, to me, I'm like, and the thing is, no one's stressing about that. Everyone's like, she's going to be great.

[16:06] Christi Esterle: Yeah, nobody cares.

[16:07] Jess McAnally: Ariana Grande.

[16:08] Christi Esterle: Ariana Grande is the one everybody's worried about. And I'm just kind of like, you know.

[16:12] Emily Clark: I'm concerned.

[16:13] Christi Esterle: Yes.

[16:14] Jess McAnally: You know, no one's more concerned than Taylor Louderman. Let's just say that.

[16:18] Christi Esterle: Oh, the call casting.

[16:20] Jess McAnally: I was dying. Dying.

[16:23] Christi Esterle: I'm sorry.

[16:24] Jess McAnally: That was some schadenfreude on my part.

[16:26] Christi Esterle: Here's the thing. I think John M. Chu earned a lot of goodwill with In the Heights because there were casting issues there.

[16:33] Jess McAnally: But the casting issue was, you know, Washington Heights should really have more black people in it.

[16:39] Christi Esterle: It wasn't, can these actors actually sing and act the roles?

[16:43] Jess McAnally: Because if you look on a performance level, it is the best cast musical in years.

[16:48] Christi Esterle: So, I'm like, you know, if he thinks she can do it, you know, I'm going to, you know, give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

[16:53] Emily Clark: And that's the thing. Like, this is the other thing. I'm like, you guys know she probably had to do multiple auditions, multiple reads, chemistry reads.

[17:03] Jess McAnally: There's no way they were just going to give away this major role, even to Ariana Grande.

[17:10] Christi Esterle: They weren't just going to give it away without making absolutely sure that she could do it.

[17:15] Emily Clark: And what's so funny is everyone's been like, she only sings pop.

[17:18] Christi Esterle: And I'm like, no, she doesn't.

[17:20] Emily Clark: She's known for singing pop.

[17:22] Christi Esterle: That's what she's like. That's how she makes her money.

[17:26] Emily Clark: Because she can do it. But like, her party trick is imitating other vocal styles perfectly.

[17:34] Christi Esterle: She's trained. She can do it.

[17:36] Emily Clark: I remember people saying this shit when Brandy was cast as Cinderella.

[17:42] Christi Esterle: And I remember reading interviews at the time, and she was like, I had to learn how to sing the proper way.

[17:47] Emily Clark: If you're a good vocalist, you can get the vocal training to do it.

[17:53] Christi Esterle: So to me, it's like, I don't get it. I think it's just people just hating on it.

[17:56] Emily Clark: And speaking of party tricks, you know, I love Cheno.

[17:58] Christi Esterle: You know, she's fantastic. She's funny.

[18:00] Emily Clark: She's, you know, an amazing soprano.

[18:03] Christi Esterle: But, you know, her party trick is the high notes.

[18:07] Emily Clark: Any role that she does, you know, no matter what, it's like, here's my high note.

[18:10] Christi Esterle: And it's like, okay. So, you know, it's like, yeah.

[18:12] Emily Clark: Even if she's cleaning your house.

[18:14] Christi Esterle: Yeah. Yes. Literally.

[18:16] Emily Clark: Literally. That's what her thing is.

[18:19] Christi Esterle: I think, you know, I think it's great.

[18:21] Emily Clark: And I think, you know, I kind of think we kind of expect that from Glinda to have that higher register.

[18:25] Christi Esterle: But maybe it's not entirely necessary.

[18:27] Emily Clark: I agree.

[18:28] Christi Esterle: I've been thinking about that, too.

[18:30] Emily Clark: Because, again, I haven't seen all the Glindas.

[18:32] Christi Esterle: So maybe some of the listeners can vary.

[18:36] Emily Clark: My summer program, like over a decade ago, we had Megan Hilty come.

[18:39] Christi Esterle: And she was talking about when she did Glinda.

[18:41] Emily Clark: And I know Megan Hilty. I know she can sing high.

[18:45] Christi Esterle: But, like, she's not like a Chenoweth.

[18:47] Emily Clark: Right.

[18:48] Christi Esterle: Like, she's not like, I'm just going to bust a high C.

[18:51] Emily Clark: Just because I can.

[18:52] Christi Esterle: She's got, like, this belt, which is a lot more, it's a lot more in her chest.

[18:57] Emily Clark: And it's a lot more, it sounds raw, but it's not raw, obviously.

[19:02] Christi Esterle: It's got that edge to it.

[19:03] Emily Clark: And, to me, that's a very different Glinda sound.

[19:06] Christi Esterle: And, you know, the Chenoweth, when you listen to the original cast recording of Wicked, those high notes, like, none of them have to be there.

[19:13] Emily Clark: No, like the end of Thank Goodness.

[19:15] Christi Esterle: The end of Thank Goodness, that's a very obvious opt-up because she can.

[19:19] Emily Clark: It's an opt-up.

[19:20] Christi Esterle: And Popular isn't even a team.

[19:23] Emily Clark: Popular, what is this feeling?

[19:25] Christi Esterle: A lot of Glinda's shit is, you know, pop to belt stuff.

[19:28] Emily Clark: So, yeah.

[19:30] Christi Esterle: Sometimes when they're blending in, like, For Good, she's on the lower harmony.

[19:34] Emily Clark: So, it's like, it's just that Chenoweth originated it, and that's what she can do.

[19:40] Christi Esterle: And we've seen it, and we've heard it.

[19:42] Emily Clark: So, why do we need to have that exact same thing again on screen?

[19:46] Christi Esterle: At least that's my thought.

[19:47] Emily Clark: It's just another interpretation.

[19:49] Christi Esterle: And maybe she will.

[19:50] Emily Clark: Because maybe she can.

[19:52] Christi Esterle: So, yeah.

[19:53] Emily Clark: All right.

[19:54] Christi Esterle: Yeah, and you know what? If she's riffy and poppy, so what?

[19:57] Emily Clark: It'll be different.

[19:58] Christi Esterle: I forget that she did a cover of Popular a few years ago that was, like, on the stations every other day.

[20:03] Emily Clark: And I'm like, you know what? This is fine.

[20:04] Christi Esterle: She's doing fine.

[20:05] Emily Clark: But a thing that people don't bring up as much, which was my concern, and then I used my brain for five seconds, was that Glinda is a very funny role.

[20:16] Christi Esterle: She is probably, although a lot of the weight of the comedic side of the story is on that character's shoulders.

[20:22] Emily Clark: And you kind of need this broad, fearless comedy drive that Kristen Chenoweth and a lot of other Glindas have had.

[20:29] Christi Esterle: And then I thought, oh, wait. Where the fuck did Ariana Grande get her start?

[20:33] Emily Clark: In fucking Nicktoons sitcoms.

[20:35] Christi Esterle: Nickelodeon sitcoms.

[20:37] Emily Clark: And she was great.

[20:38] Christi Esterle: She knows what she's doing there.

[20:40] Emily Clark: I think she's very funny.

[20:42] Christi Esterle: I love her weird.

[20:43] Emily Clark: I don't know.

[20:44] Christi Esterle: She'll be weird.

[20:45] Emily Clark: Like, I like it.

[20:46] Christi Esterle: She'll be like, she might be a little more wide-eyed and ditzy.

[20:52] Emily Clark: And she's good at the deadpan, though.

[20:55] Christi Esterle: That's the thing.

[20:56] Emily Clark: Glinda does not know she is funny.

[20:59] Christi Esterle: She is not trying to be funny.

[21:01] Emily Clark: That's just what's going on in her head.

[21:03] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[21:04] Emily Clark: And again, actors can be directed.

[21:08] Christi Esterle: This is what's driving me crazy with people online.

[21:11] Emily Clark: They're like, she can't do it. It's like, well, she's going to have a director who's going to tell her what to do and vocal coaches.

[21:18] Christi Esterle: And she's proven she can do it.

[21:21] Emily Clark: Yeah.

[21:22] Christi Esterle: This is like Mark Platt giving Ben Dear Evan Hansen.

[21:27] Jess McAnally: Oh, that's another speculation, though, isn't it?

[21:30] Christi Esterle: We'll come to that.

[21:31] Jess McAnally: We're going to hold those for a second.

[21:34] Christi Esterle: And it might not work, but I think she's shown enough talent.

[21:39] Emily Clark: I think Chu has shown enough good instincts as a director that I'm like, okay.

[21:46] Christi Esterle: I'll watch and see what you can do with this.

[21:49] Emily Clark: Yeah.

[21:50] Christi Esterle: If she sucks, I'll eat crow.

[21:52] Jess McAnally: To me, the argument right now is like, how could she be cast? And I'm like, this seems like a no-brainer casting decision.

[21:57] Christi Esterle: Now, what people are bringing up a lot, which I think is another unfair thing to bring up, is Hairspray Live, where she was not at her best performance.

[22:06] Emily Clark: Nobody was.

[22:07] Christi Esterle: Martin Short was flubbing his lines for crying out loud.

[22:10] Emily Clark: I feel like I'm the only one who actually kind of liked her Penny Pingleton.

[22:15] Christi Esterle: I don't know why.

[22:16] Emily Clark: I mean, everyone was flubbing. That was a live production in general.

[22:20] Christi Esterle: That was a messed up production.

[22:21] Emily Clark: But I don't know. I kind of liked it again just because it was kind of different.

[22:25] Christi Esterle: I guess it didn't make the hugest impact on me, but I didn't walk away going, trash, you're trash, you're garbage.

[22:34] Emily Clark: I was just like, oh, it was kind of like her version of Penny.

[22:37] Christi Esterle: For all the flubs and stuff, it was a decent couple hours.

[22:41] Emily Clark: I don't regret every moment that I spent watching it.

[22:43] Christi Esterle: There was some good stuff going on there.

[22:45] Emily Clark: I remember having a great time.

[22:46] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[22:47] Emily Clark: I mean, you had Jennifer Hudson rocking the shit out of I Know Where I've Been.

[22:51] Christi Esterle: That was incredible.

[22:53] Emily Clark: I think that was a rough production in a couple ways, where they were trying to one-up the Grease Live done by Fox, and it didn't work because it's just a different kind of show.

[23:06] Christi Esterle: So I feel like they kind of just messed up the whole style choice, which made the actors feel a little lost.

[23:13] Emily Clark: Also, that's no way to judge even your best performers because live shows like that, it's hard to really perform in the same way.

[23:21] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[23:22] Emily Clark: I mean, how many great actors have horror stories? There's apparently a Judy Garland recording somewhere where she goes up on her lyrics and just goes, la-la-la-la-la for like a stanza.

[23:34] Christi Esterle: If you've got multiple takes, a warm set, time to actually prepare and stuff, she's going to give a knockout performance.

[23:41] Jess McAnally: My biggest concern, when I heard her name thrown around, I don't think she'd be a good Elphaba, and I still stand by that. I don't think she would have been as good an Elphaba. She is a perfect Glinda, though.

[23:51] Christi Esterle: Well, and see, that's the thing. I always thought she was going to be Elphaba purely just because of the Belty scene, but now that I see this casting, it's like, oh.

[23:58] Emily Clark: Yeah.

[23:59] Christi Esterle: Yeah, of course.

[24:00] Jess McAnally: And she and Cheno for the past month have been just spewing love at each other on social media.

[24:06] Christi Esterle: Didn't they just do The Voice together?

[24:10] Emily Clark: Cheno guest-ed on The Voice, and then they've just been very—

[24:15] Christi Esterle: I felt like this was coming. I was like, you know, you know.

[24:19] Emily Clark: Yeah, in retrospect, yeah.

[24:22] Christi Esterle: But the Cynthia Erivo one, I remember feeling like it came out of nowhere because even on that concert that they did most recently, everyone was like, oh, it's going to be Ariana DeBose, or it's going to be Amber Riley.

[24:34] Emily Clark: And I remember Cynthia Erivo was in it. She sang—

[24:37] Christi Esterle: But she sang a weird scene.

[24:39] Emily Clark: She sang something, and it was beautiful.

[24:42] Christi Esterle: I remember being like, oh, what was it?

[24:44] Emily Clark: Thank Goodness.

[24:45] Christi Esterle: She's like, I couldn't be happier.

[24:47] Emily Clark: I couldn't be happier.

[24:49] Christi Esterle: Oh, yes, that's right.

[24:51] Emily Clark: I'm like, that's a weird one for her.

[24:53] Christi Esterle: Yeah, and it was a weird cut.

[24:55] Emily Clark: Yeah, and I remember thinking that's beautiful, but then I didn't think one thing of it because, again, Cynthia Erivo to me is like, ever since she got her Oscar nom, to me it's like, well, she's kind of—

[25:06] Christi Esterle: I felt like she was on a different plane at this point.

[25:08] Emily Clark: But now it's like, as soon as she got cast, everyone was like, oh, we don't have to worry. Although there is this weird argument where people are like, she's 34, and Ariana's 28, and they're too old.

[25:20] Christi Esterle: They're getting into the Evan Hansen of it all.

[25:22] Emily Clark: And I'm like, it's a magical made-up world of Oz. Do we want to talk about how old Judy Garland was in 1939?

[25:30] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[25:31] Emily Clark: Also, I don't know the logistics of Ozzy and collegiate age limits.

[25:35] Christi Esterle: Also, they have to age throughout the story, which is the difference between Dear Evan Hansen.

[25:39] Emily Clark: Yeah, they sure do.

[25:40] Christi Esterle: They have to be able to play the younger side and the older side, which is why the ages they're at are perfect for this role.

[25:47] Emily Clark: Yeah, it's a little more fantastic and a little more broader than Dear Evan Hansen, which is supposed to be this naturalistic high school story.

[25:54] Christi Esterlo: Exactly.

[25:56] Emily Clark: Like, green girl and talking animals.

[25:59] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[26:00] Emily Clark: We can maybe suspend our disbelief a little bit.

[26:03] Christi Esterle: Yeah, and honestly, that green makeup, that does kind of give Elphaba almost this ageless quality because how do you even judge somebody who doesn't look like a normal human?

[26:11] Emily Clark: How do you even judge their age?

[26:14] Christi Esterle: Okay. Can we bring up concerns that we have, not even about the casting, but about the film in general?

[26:24] Christi Esterle: Because I'm sure we are going to have some. Jon M. Chu, fantastic director. The director of photography from this is the same one from In the Heights and also the upcoming Tick Tick Boom movie. Both of them look like visual treats to the eyes. Yeah, so it's, I think, you know, I think as far as staging the songs go, it's going to be fantastic. And that's going to be important because there is a lot of, there's a lot of park and bark here. I mean, you've got Defying Gravity where it's just, you know, standing there and showing off, I'm not that girl, things like that. I think they can find ways to make that interesting and not like, oh, hey, here's an actor singing for five minutes. We're just going to do like some weird music video shit around it.

Yeah, and Jon Chu has proven, especially with In the Heights, that it's okay to revel in the fact that you're making a freaking musical. It is a musical, and it is okay. And this is a musical about Oz and witches and magic things and super heightened. So he needs to go all out with this. I want bright colors. I want music everywhere. I want choreography everywhere. I want those interesting visual shots that, like he came up with it in In the Heights to make up for the, not make up, but like to add to the park and bark of it all, to make it more cinematic. And I think he'll be able to do that. You know, just the idea of Defying Gravity. Defying Gravity I think is going to look fantastic. She'll just be flying over all of them, like actually flying on her broom.

That'll be freaking cool. Yeah, she doesn't have to like stand up on the cherry picker. That's going to look awesome. Yeah, yeah. It's me! With the little clasp thing of her cape. But there brings my biggest concern. Visually, what if this looks like the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderland kind of style? What if it's just over CG'd and Defying Gravity is kind of lessened by the fact that it's just overproduced? I could see that being an issue.

[28:19] Emily Clark: Yeah, there's always that risk. There's always the risk, you know, that they are going to lean a little too much into the popness, pop autotune sound. I doubt that. I mean, that's one thing I doubt. They don't have to, but I think, you know, some people might feel like they need to. At least not for R2-D2. So there is that concern. Practical effects as much. Like, I want Dr. Dillamond to have good old-fashioned, like, glued-to-his-face prosthetics. If they fucking CG make her skin green, I will go insane. We've seen Once Upon a Time.

[28:58] Christi Esterle: Yeah, yeah. But the thing is, I think they know the stakes here.

[29:05] Emily Clark: Yeah. And I think, in the studio, choosing John Chu.

[29:12] Christi Esterle: Yeah. You know, it's not like when flipping, what, Clint Eastwood did Jersey Boy. Oh, jeez. Like, we're not going for realism here. He did not know how to handle that movie.

[29:21] Emily Clark: Oh, yeah. Or, conversely, Susan Stroman with the producers, where you're like, you don't know how to do a movie.

[29:27] Christi Esterle: Or Hal Prince with a little night music. Yes, exactly.

[29:32] Emily Clark: Yeah, it's really hard. You're fabulous on stage, but this is a completely different animal and you're not getting it. You're not getting it. You lose that proscenium, you lose a lot of the magic, so you have to make up for it. And I'm optimistic that he will deliver.

[29:38] Christi Esterle: Yeah, it's like, you know, I get what you're saying about, you know, not being, like, too over-stylized and over-CGI like Alice in Wonderland, but I don't think we need to go, like, the other direction where it's, like, you know, grim and dark and, you know, bleak Alan Moore stuff. I do not want to see, like, I don't want to see sad industrial Sweeney Todd Oz. I mean, the whole point is that it's, like, this place that looks like it's bright and colorful and cheerful, but there is, like, that stuff going on underneath it. Honestly, my ideal visual style for this is Return to Oz, with maybe, like, 5% saturation turned up. Because Return to Oz has, like, this incredible, like, setscape and, like, these incredible practical effects. It's just a little more color. It's a very good-looking movie, and it is, you know, I mean, it gave kids nightmares, but looking back, I think it's just the right amount of creepy.

[30:29] Emily Clark: Yeah. Fucking love Return to Oz.

[30:35] Christi Esterle: Return to Oz is a great movie.

[30:40] Emily Clark: Yeah, so good. Oh, man. You know who directed it, though? Walter Murch, who, like, edited Apocalypse Now and The Godfather. His only movie he ever directed. Huh, interesting. He's, like, a good friend of George Lucas. He did this for Disney. He's, like, all right, did that, never doing that again.

[30:55] Christi Esterle: See, that's the version of Dorothy I want to see. If we were to ever see Dorothy in Wicked, instead of just hearing her, I want Frusa Balk version.

[31:01] Emily Clark: Yeah, I want to. She's like, I'm going to get electro-shocked.

[31:07] Christi Esterle: Yeah, I, you know.

[31:12] Emily Clark: Is that Ariana Grande?

[31:18] Christi Esterle: Yeah, it's all Ariana Grande. But she actually does kind of talk like that. She's like, huh?

[31:23] Emily Clark: Yeah, I want to see, yeah, the one thing I really want to see for Dorothy is I want to see how young she is. Yes. You know, she can't be any more than 12. I want to see this little kid and her poor little dog who is being sent off to kill this witch, and she is scared out of her little head about it. I think we should keep with the stage show and never see her properly. I feel like that's very important. But if we do see her, because if it was some cameo or something, or God forbid, an uncanny valley CGI face.

[32:04] Christi Esterle: Oh my God. Don't do that. Do not speak that into existence. They pull a Mark Hamill.

[32:12] Emily Clark: At the end of The Mandalorian.

[32:18] Christi Esterle: That would be bad. Don't do that. What if they just used old footage of the original film?

[32:24] Emily Clark: That would actually, I'd actually kind of like that. I would like to hear like old audio from the original film, like hear Judy Garland's like kind of voice crying or be, or, he got away! He got away! Like that? Like that's what I want to hear.

[32:36] Christi Esterle: And then you just cut to Cynthia Remo, Jesus Christ, who talks like that?

[32:41] Emily Clark: Oh, I want to know if Cynthia Erivo is going to be able to use her actual accent.

[32:47] Christi Esterle: Yes, that is a good...

[32:49] Emily Clark: Because she's very British. But she can do a very convincing American accent.

[32:55] Christi Esterle: Yeah, I would just like to see her be like, we can't all travel by bubble!

[33:01] Emily Clark: We can't travel by bubble! I can see that working very well, but even when they do Wicked in the UK, they do American accents. I don't know why. It's a fantasy world. It would probably work better with British accents.

[33:12] Christi Esterle: Yeah, but Dr. Dillamond can be like a little British, you know? It's weird.

[33:18] Emily Clark: Well, that's a great transition into our next section. The wizard needs to be an American hick. I mean, he describes himself as such, so. How would we expect or think that they might fill out the rest of this cast?

[33:31] Christi Esterle: Well, okay, so the speculation people have been saying, because you know Wicked was originally produced by one daddy-papa-daddy-daddy, Platt. I think he's learned his lesson, to be honest. Like, Ben Platt better not be in this.

[33:43] Emily Clark: Yeah, he better not! I wouldn't mind him being that professor that comes in and wheels in the lion. He's like, I'm replacement Dr. Dillamond!

[33:50] Christi Esterle: Yeah, he could be the evil guy who's torturing the lions. He could be the monkey Chistery or whatever, yeah. I'm hearing, it's so funny, people have been saying, like, speculating Fiyero, and everyone that they've mentioned is, like, way too young to be paired with Cynthia Erivo. They're like, Jordan Fisher! I'm like, Jordan Fisher?! Like, she's way older than- I mean, she's probably not. She's probably like five years older than him, but he looks so young to me that I'm like-

[34:01] Emily Clark: I have a pitch that I would like, like, especially after In the Heights. Anthony Ramos! He'd be great!

[34:07] Christi Esterle: Possible, yeah. Oh, he'd be young. But my thing, the one thing I really want is, I want Fiyero to be black. Several reasons. He's black in the book, let's at least honor that. And, you know, I think it's great that Cynthia-

[34:19] Emily Clark: The triangle!

[34:21] Christi Esterle: Yeah, he's got diamond tattoos, which, you know, that's here or there. But, you know, I love that Cynthia Erivo is Elphaba, but as far as representation goes, it's kind of a moot point because Elphaba isn't black or brown or white, she's green. So, you know, I'd like to have somebody who- a black actor who is being black on screen in a major role in this. I think that would go a long way to show that they're moving forward from the way they dropped the ball on In the Heights. And you can round out a lot of the other roles with more Broadway people.

[34:50] Emily Clark: Yeah, absolutely. And that, again, will satisfy the musical theater stance. My theory is that, you know, The Wizard and Morrible, those are probably going to cast more for big name because that's, you know, that's like where you get Meryl Streep or, you know, whoever.

[35:00] Christi Esterle: I don't want her in another movie, I'm sorry. Someone said Christine Baranski as Madame Morrible online.

[35:06] Emily Clark: Christine Baranski would be awesome. But, you know, you get your big name actor, you have them for a week, they dress them up and they do their thing, and then you get to advertise them all over the place. And if they're a big name like Christine Baranski or something who actually can sing, that's another bonus.

[35:25] Christi Esterle: Yeah, I would also love to see like, you know, one of the Broadway grand dams there, you know, like we could get Bernadette or Patti or Bette Midler in there, you know, that would be fun. I think probably for like Nessa and, you know, Bach and maybe Fiyero could go either way. I think those are probably going to cast more for Broadway.

[35:41] Emily Clark: I do have a request with Nessa and Elphaba's father. I think they should be black to show so that we don't take Cynthia Erivo's innate blackness away from that character.

[35:53] Christi Esterle: I think so, but I'd also, you know, I would also like them to do like, you know, a 98 Cinderella or a Hamilton, whatever, where they just have, you know, like, okay, everybody, you know, everybody, siblings, parents, kids, everybody's just like a different race, and we're not going to explain it, that's just how it is.

[36:06] Emily Clark: Yeah, I mean, I hope at least they're being conscious of it while casting, and I think they are. I just don't want them to be like, well, we cast a black Elphaba, our job is done.

[36:17] Christi Esterle: No, no, you can't do that.

[36:23] Emily Clark: We solved racism. We solved racism and win. No, we haven't. I seriously want to see Ali Stroker as Nessa, actually. I'm starting to wonder, because the thing is, she does, for again, the obvious reasons, but she is starting, she does have a bit of that crossover success.

[36:41] Christi Esterle: Yeah, and she did perform at that wicked performance audition thing.

[36:46] Emily Clark: Yeah, she's, you know, she's got the Broadway cred, you know, she could crossover. It's a smaller part, so they won't worry about having to give it to, you know, like a big name, and you know, you can just like, you know, do doubles in CGI for the one scene where she has to stand up. And it would be, um, it would be a really cool way to, I mean, just cast a actually actual person in a wheelchair, in a wheelchair.

[37:03] Christi Esterle: Exactly. And, um, you know, it'd be cool if it went to an unknown, but I feel like, since she is probably the most visible, she's definitely the most visible performer in a wheelchair. She would be easier to sell to producers who think of that bottom line, but because it's like, well, here's this person that all the music theater people know. They'll love it.

[37:24] Emily Clark: Wannatone, all that.

[37:26] Christi Esterle: Yeah, yeah, so to me, that would be a smart choice, and I, I'm, I wouldn't be surprised if they're already, she's got to be in the pile.

[37:30] Emily Clark: I would hope so, yeah. I mean, who else would be in that pile? Beanie Feldstein?

[37:36] Christi Esterle: Well, I mean, yeah, like, or maybe more, maybe more unknowns, maybe more like, like how, um, like, um, what's her name? The gal who played Nina in In the Heights? She was kind of, um, an unknown. They might do something like that, too, with her or with, like, Fiyero or something.

[37:54] Emily Clark: What about the gentleman that played Benny, um, in In the Heights?

[37:59] Christi Esterle: Cory Robinson, yeah, I think he would be another good option for Fiyero.

[38:04] Emily Clark: Oh, yeah, he's wonderful.

[38:06] Christi Esterle: Oh, yeah, definitely. I feel like that movie didn't do his character any favor, so if you know...

[38:09] Emily Clark: No, it didn't. I mean, they cut out that whole conflict with him and Kevin, and I was like, you really need that, because, yeah.

[38:15] Christi Esterle: That whole, that whole relationship was kind of moved into a supporting, yeah, yeah, we just focused on Anthony Reign.

[38:20] Emily Clark: Which is what it is. I still think the movie's better than the stage show for other reasons, but...

[38:26] Christi Esterle: Oh, I agree. I love, oh, I love it. It's a fantastic movie, so, yeah. If you haven't watched it, watch it.

[38:32] Emily Clark: Okay, so, yeah, okay, so who's, who's taking bets on James Corden as Dr. Dillamore?

[38:38] Christi Esterle: I'd rather not imagine that. I feel like...

[38:42] Emily Clark: See, here's the, here's the thing, though, you know, as much as we are all sick of James Corden and would like him to sit, like, every musical out forever now, you know, I think him being cast in Wicked would not be the most disastrous thing ever, because

[38:48] Christi Esterle: He wouldn't be playing some...

[38:53] Emily Clark: He's really insufferable when he's trying to play the wacky character. You look at the prom, you look at cats, you look at the Cinderella, he tried...

[39:04] Christi Esterle: He'll get into the woods.

[39:06] Emily Clark: Again, when he, uh, well... No, but I like him getting into the woods, because he's grounded into the woods. Because he's the straight man, you know, he's the guy, he's the ordinary guy who all these crazy people are standing around, and he's like, what the hell? Same with...

[39:16] Christi Esterle: Okay.

[39:16] Emily Clark: That was, that was the show he won the Tony for.

[39:22] Christi Esterle: Who happens to have this weird, crazy alien pop into his life.

[39:27] Emily Clark: Was it One Man, Two Governors? And he won the Tony for One Man, Two Governors, where he's kind of, like, dealing with all the shenanigans around him.

[39:33] Christi Esterle: Yeah. So, and he's been overexposed, too.

[39:38] Emily Clark: Yeah. I mean, let's be honest.

[39:40] Christi Esterle: But he can sing, and he can play a grounded character. Again, direction. Yes.

[39:35] Christi Esterle: So yeah, if, you know, I again, he would not be my first choice, he probably wouldn't be my 50th choice. But if it happened, I don't think that, you know, it's not necessarily the deal breaker. Can't just don't make him the wizard. Just yeah, making the way I offer an alternative for either the wizard or Dr. Dillman that I think would suit would give the people at Universal, someone they could actually put on their TV shows and use to promote it in a very popular space. Why don't we put Stephen Colbert, you know, the Sondheim alum performer as Dr. Dillman or, you know, the wizard? Stephen Colbert would be great. Yeah, I can see that. You know, the whole thing about the wizard is that he seems like this nice paternal, you know, good, you know, everybody's friend guy.

And then you realize he's this manipulative demagogue. And I think Colbert could play that. Like I'm hearing him saying, having all the drink, my dog. And it works in my ear. Like, come on. Yeah. And I think you need to think I think you need somebody with a little of that classic song and dance vibe for Wonderful, because that's it. That's very much in that mode. So I mean, if Cole, I mean, if Conan still had a show, I'd pick him before either of those two, but he doesn't.

[40:48] Emily Clark: Yeah, well, and Colbert, Colbert, like you said, Colbert is a big Sondheim fan. He's a big musical theater fan. I think it and again, it could be something he could like film in a week. Right, right. And he'd be great as either of them. I think that's a cool choice. Yeah. I don't know what I wouldn't be surprised if like, they got someone like Hugh Jackman. I'm not I'm not feeling Hugh Jackman as the wizard, but I can see them trying it. I know. Yeah, I'm not feeling it either. But yeah, I mean, if Joel Grey is so old, I wish he could. No, it would be nice. But yeah, still good. Yeah, he's still he is. Yeah. He's kind of like, you know, the Dick Van Dyke. He's old, but you know, he's still got it.

So yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, I don't know. There's just so many like, just like middle aged guy. Yeah. Hollywood. Who could just do it? Okay, another song and dance man. Somebody mentioned Alan Cumming on Twitter, which I think would be good for either the wizard or Dillamond. Better wizard. Come on. Fantastic wizard, but I can see him again. Do you know doing Dillamond? Because, you know, he's all right. He'd be a very light. Well, if he went with it, like how he did the mayor on on schmooze, then I can see that. I slimy MC Alan Cumming. Yeah, but you know, he doesn't have to be the slimy guy. He can be he can be genie. He can be deceptively genial. I mean, reefer madness has, you know, a little more of the darker edge.

But that's kind of the vibe where I'm thinking, you know, he seems like you know, this ordinary I'm just concerned for the children people. All right. Another pitch that might be a little too daddy, but still very hot at the moment. Jason Sudeikis, he would be he's got that Americana charm of the wizard and he'd be great and he can sing. Well, the thing we need to remember is spoiler alert, the wizard is Elphaba's father. So there does need to have that they do need to have that age difference and dynamic. I mean, how old is he? He's in his 50s, isn't he?

[42:42] Christi Esterle: Yeah. I think he actually, I don't know. It's either late 40s or early 50s. Are you looking? Yeah, let's see how old is he? Let's all look up Jason 46. He's only a couple years older than me. Oh, my gosh. He's only 46. He doesn't and he doesn't look at it. I'm not sure he can play Cynthia. You're right. You're right. I was thinking more Dillamond. He would be very good at that role.

[43:09] Emily Clark: Oh yeah, that'd be nice. You know what? It would actually be pretty cool if they just made Dillamond a puppet and then they could dub in whoever's voice later. What if they got someone like, I'm thinking of like schmigadoon actors right now. Like, what if someone like Fred Armisen?

[43:24] Christi Esterle: He would be the weirdest wizard. He'd be like, wow, hi. Or Keegan-Michael Key or something.

[43:31] Emily Clark: Oh, my God. I love that idea. I think he's a bit young, but he's in his 50s. Again, he doesn't look it. But yeah, he would totally rock as the wizard. I mean, did you see him in Jingle Jangle?

[43:42] Christi Esterle: Yeah. Well, and he's so good at he's so good with his. He can also be very threatening. So good at being big. And he can fit the colors that would create Elphaba. Yeah. And he'd be really charming. And he can be charming. He can be a dick. And but at the same time, you know, he can be a dick that you feel sorry for because at the end he finds out that he put a hit out on his own daughter. I mean, you know, he's like, you know, you do kind of feel for him a bit.

[44:15] Christi Esterle: Yeah, he's right. Yeah. As long as he's not playing like himself the way that he does tend to do sometimes like he leans more into the schmigadoon as a character kind of thing. I think it would be great. I have not seen Jingle Jangle though. That film looks incredible.

[44:35] Emily Clark: It's fun. I mean, it's got, you know, primarily black cast. It has got like that peak, you know, Victorian holiday aesthetic going on. And it's just a fun movie, man. All right. Let's talk about concerns again, because I do have concerns about Bach specifically. We haven't talked about Bach yet. Before we move on to that, who do we think for Bach? I know we've pitched Ben Platt before, but no thank you.

[45:05] Christi Esterle: That's a hard one. See, now, Bach, I feel like they could go with a, if they go with like an Ali Stroker, then I think like a young, kind of like a younger guy would work.

[45:13] Emily Clark: Yeah, like this underclassman. I think Piero's got to have a little more gravity, got to be a little older to kind of match Scarivo and Bondi.

[45:21] Christi Esterle: Yeah, but Bach you can play off as like this younger underclassman who is just absolutely besotted with Glinda and, you know, doesn't see that she's using him. So Andrew Barth Feldman or something like that?

[45:33] Emily Clark: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know who any of these people are. I'm sure there's like some boy on High School Musical or something.

[45:36] Christi Esterle: Yeah. But again, that would be another good one for like, yeah, like a Broadway guy who's trying to kind of transition to film a little bit. I mean, I feel like they'll give it to a more film centric person, a comedic younger actor, only because he doesn't sing much.

[45:55] Emily Clark: He doesn't have much to sing to. He doesn't sing much, no, but.

[45:58] Christi Esterle: Yeah, maybe there's someone on like a, yeah, like on a sitcom or something right now. One of the stranger things.

[46:04] Emily Clark: Oh, Finn Wittrock.

[46:11] Christi Esterle: Oh yeah, with a little, oh god, I can't remember his name. This kid, the boy, the boy who can sing.

[46:17] Emily Clark: Oh yeah, he does have a voice.

[46:22] Christi Esterle: Yeah, he'd be great. That'd be perfect. Come on. Okay. I can't remember his name. That's our lock-in of the week. Gaten Mazzarello.

[46:52] ♪ Musical number: "Defying Gravity" — performed by Christi Esterle and Emily Clark ♪

[47:59] Christi Esterle: Um, I want to tell you guys right now, so my friend who writes for Variety just messaged me and she said, I got to tell Ariana Grande, I think her casting is great. And she was so cute. Yeah, I'm sure she knows that there's going to be eyebrows raised. So bless her. I think she's gonna, you know, she's, she's not just like, okay, you know how Taylor Swift thought she could act for a second just because she was like, kind of funny. And it turned out she was terrible at it. Like, that's not Ariana Grande. Like, like most, most people who do, who have done any kind of acting in their life, where did they get their start? Their school shows. Okay. So, and her school shows transcended to like regional theater. She was in the Pasadena Playhouse, Snow White Panto a decade ago, like just in my neighborhood. She was in a Jason Robert Brown musical and Jason Robert Brown writes some of her songs now. Come on. She's Broadway.

[48:53] Emily Clark: I mean, yeah. Yeah. And the thing is, even if she hasn't done a bunch of it, she understands it. Right. And I think she understands the importance of it. I don't think she would just be like, well, I could just do this because I'm entitled to it. Yeah. Like I think she probably, again, just speculating. I think she's well aware of how many eyes are going to be on her.

[49:13] Christi Esterle: Yeah. And how many eyebrows are raised. I'm not that girl like Madonna did in Evita. So yes.

[49:20] Emily Clark: Yeah. Oh, that's the other thing. They might change keys. That's fine. They might change some keys for her. Who cares? I, I, I literally don't care. I prefer Madonna's key in Evita in most songs, to be honest. When I remember it, my brain, um, the movie Evita was the first time I had absorbed Evita, you know, I was like 14 or something and I remember loving it. And then I listened to the Broadway album after that. And I was like, how does one actress not go literally insane playing this role?

[50:04] Christi Esterle: I think Patti might have a little bit, unfortunately.

[50:09] Emily Clark: Um, she 100% did. Like she has to go between like star quality to like, like that's an insane range. And like every song is your song. That's insane. I have no problem there. You can say what you want about the Evita film. There's a lot of problems. There's not many problems. I'd say that film makes a pretty good choice. It's probably the best adaptation of an Andrew Lloyd Webber show. And I know that is a ridiculously low bar to clear, but.

[50:31] Christi Esterle: I'm working. Antonio Banderas is sexy in it. He's a sexy chick.

[50:36] Emily Clark: I'm working on a 90 minute video on Andrew Lloyd Webber film adaptations. And yeah, that is basically the conclusion, but I still think Jesus Christ Superstars is a more fun film to watch.

[50:42] Christi Esterle: Yeah, definitely.

[50:46] Emily Clark: Um, so, um, biggest concerns about it adaptation-wise. Can you still hear me?

[50:46] Emily Clark: Okay. Biggest concerns at adaptation-wise. Um, I've always had problems with the opening of Wicked. It is messy. This is a very show, show, show, show, show, show. Dead stuff. Let's flashback. All right. Here's your context. Let me pitch something to you. Okay. Cause in the book they have this, you know, they have the clock of the time dragon, which is like this little mechanical theater that goes around and shows like the secrets of people's lives. So what if it were done like that? What if, you know, Glinda's talking and like this little play, you know, this little play stage open with, you know, like puppet, um, puppet, you know, Milena and Frex and, uh, you know, like a little shadowy wizard figure and all the, this, you know, things, how would that work?

[50:52] Christi Esterle: Uh, you, yeah, you kind of went away there for a bit.

[51:28] Christi Esterle: I would appreciate that more, especially if it was like animated. Have you guys, either of you seen the new Candyman?

[51:36] Emily Clark: I have not, but like, you know, like what they did with the trailer, that's kind of what I'm talking about. I can see something in that style. That's exactly what I want. Or like in, um, uh, uh, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

[51:44] Christi Esterle: Oh yeah, where they do the story.

[51:46] Emily Clark: Yeah. I think, you know, if you style it, if you stylize it, if you make it a little visually interesting, it'll play a lot better as opposed to this happened, flashback, this happened, flashback, this happened, song, song, song. Kind of like Hunchback of Notre Dame.

[52:00] Christi Esterle: Where does that sound?

[52:05] Emily Clark: I love, it doesn't feel messy.

[52:07] Christi Esterle: Oh my God. It's not messy there.

[52:10] Emily Clark: The same goddamn thing, didn't he?

[52:12] Christi Esterle: It's not messy. Yeah. It's not messy there because the transit, again, the animation, the transitions are pretty good. Like where you have Clopin going stop and the lightning flashes and it's the Archdeacon. I think that's, you know, they do some interesting stuff with it. I think if they lean towards that, it would be a lot better. That whole opening sequence, I think on stage, um, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't work. It feels so cinematic. That's the thing. When you listen to the album, like when I listened to it, it goes in. Yeah. It's like, I'm watching a flashback now. And I think on stage it's like, he comes out and he's from behind and you don't see him. And it's a guy being like, I'll have another drink. Um, and I just think you're right. I.

[52:47] Christi Esterle: Welcome back to The Dear Friends Podcast! Today, we’re diving into our predictions for the Wicked movie.

[53:17] Emily Clark: Yes! I’m so excited to talk about this. There’s so much to consider with the casting and the story.

[53:47] Christi Esterle: Absolutely! I think the casting choices have been really interesting so far.

[54:17] Emily Clark: I agree. I mean, Ariana Grande as Glinda is a big deal. She’s got the voice for it, but can she capture the character's essence?

[54:47] Christi Esterle: Right! And then we have Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba, which is just perfect. Her voice is incredible.

[55:07] Emily Clark: I can’t wait to hear her sing “Defying Gravity.” It’s going to be epic!

[55:37] Christi Esterle: For sure! I’m also curious about how they’ll handle the story. There’s so much depth in the musical that I hope they don’t lose in the film.

[55:47] Emily Clark: Exactly! The themes of friendship and acceptance are so important.

[55:57] Christi Esterle: And the visuals! I hope they really bring Oz to life in a way that feels magical.

[56:07] Emily Clark: Yes! The costumes and set design are going to be crucial.

[56:17] Christi Esterle: I wonder if they’ll include all the songs from the musical or if they’ll cut some for time.

[56:27] Emily Clark: That’s a good point. I hope they keep the iconic ones, at least.

[56:37] Christi Esterle: Definitely! “Popular” has to be in there.

[56:47] Emily Clark: And “For Good” too! It’s such a beautiful moment in the show.

[56:57] Christi Esterle: Agreed! The emotional weight of that song is just perfect for the film.

[57:07] Emily Clark: I’m also curious about the supporting characters. They play such a big role in the story.

[57:17] Christi Esterle: Yes! I hope they give them enough screen time to shine.

[57:27] Emily Clark: And what about the Wicked Witch of the West? I hope they do her justice!

[57:37] Christi Esterle: Absolutely! She’s such a complex character, and I want to see that explored.

[57:47] Emily Clark: I think it’s going to be a challenge to balance the humor and the darker themes.

[57:57] Christi Esterle: For sure! But if they do it right, it could be a masterpiece.

[58:07] Emily Clark: I’m just so excited to see how it all comes together.

[58:17] Christi Esterle: Same here! It’s going to be a wild ride.

[58:27] Emily Clark: And the anticipation is half the fun!

[58:37] Christi Esterle: Definitely! Let’s keep our fingers crossed for a great adaptation.

[58:47] Emily Clark: Yes! And we’ll be here to discuss it when it comes out.

[58:57] Christi Esterle: For sure! Thanks for joining us today, everyone.

[59:07] Emily Clark: We can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the Wicked movie!

[59:17] Christi Esterle: Until next time, stay magical!

[59:27] Emily Clark: Bye!

[59:37] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[59:47] Emily Clark: Bye!

[59:57] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:00:07] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:00:17] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:00:27] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:00:37] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:00:47] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:00:57] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:01:07] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:01:17] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:01:27] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:01:37] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:01:47] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:01:57] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:02:07] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:02:17] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:02:27] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:02:37] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:02:47] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:02:57] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:03:07] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:03:17] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:03:27] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:03:37] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:03:47] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:03:57] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:04:07] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:04:17] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:04:27] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:04:37] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:04:47] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:04:57] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:05:07] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:05:17] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:05:27] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:05:37] Christi Esterle: Bye!

[1:05:47] Emily Clark: Bye!

[1:05:57] Christi Esterle: Bye!