This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:02] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. And for the month of November, we are doing a Wizard of Oz sequel musical conglomeration.

[0:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, apparently there's a lot of these, I guess. I mean, it makes sense. We got you got the big movie. Everyone wants a part of that pie.

[0:26] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I mean, the movie is still great. Like we covered it on a podcast a few years ago with Maggie Mayfish. Good, good film. I like it. And ever since then, people have wanted a cut of that pie.

[0:37] Andrew DeWolf: Absolutely. And honestly, I would love to see a good sequel to the Wizard of Oz. And I mean, I think we have one that's close. Return to Oz exists. I think that one's pretty good.

[0:48] Jesse McAnally: Return to Oz is, it's decent. It's definitely decent. I don't think it lives up to the highs of like Wizard of Oz, but it's still like, you know, it's watchable. It's a decent film.

[0:58] Andrew DeWolf: But these other attempts certainly exist.

[1:02] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. I mean, do you think the Wicked movies came in the same, like, at least mostly good quality thing?

[1:07] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I don't like the Wicked movies. We know that.

[1:12] Jesse McAnally: I think the Wicked movies come at least close to like Return to Oz level, especially the first one.

[1:20] Andrew DeWolf: But they're also not really sequels. They're kind of spinoffs.

[1:24] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. They're like requels.

[1:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I don't really count that. I think in order for it to be a sequel, it has to be like a sequel and preferably based on the books. Although I guess if you do your own thing, that's allowed. But Wicked is literally rewriting Wizard of Oz, like entirely, so.

[1:39] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. It's like, we're going to do our own thing.

[1:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:44] Jesse McAnally: Well, we also covered a different sequel to the Wizard of Oz. Do you remember, God, Tom and Jerry Back to Oz?

[1:51] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, good fucking Lord. I blocked that one out.

[1:54] Jesse McAnally: Is that a sequel?

[1:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's a sequel because remember we had the Gnome King and all that and.

[1:59] Jesse McAnally: Oh my God, you're right. They do in Return to Oz.

[1:59] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck.

[2:03] Jesse McAnally: Andrew's so into this. We're boring him.

[2:05] Andrew DeWolf: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think I woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

[2:10] Jesse McAnally: Speaking of waking up on the wrong side of the bed, this week, we are talking about the animated attempt to sequelize The Wizard of Oz from 1972.

[2:21] Andrew DeWolf: This is The Journey Back to Oz.

[2:24] Jesse McAnally: Remember Judy Garland and the Yellow Brick Road? Now, Liza Minelli recreates the role of Dorothy in the new exciting full-length musical adventure, Journey Back to Oz.

[2:37] Jesse McAnally: So, Journey Back to Oz is a film directed by Hal Sutherland, written by Fred Ladd and Norm Prescott, based on L. Frank Baum's novel, The Marvelous Land of Oz, much like last week's The Wonderful Land of Oz.

[2:52] Jesse McAnally: It has music and lyrics by Sami Khan and Jimmy Van Heusen, who did a lot of work for Frank Sinatra, like that was a main collaborator of them.

[3:02] Jesse McAnally: For the film's American release, FilmNation partnered with the Seymour board and distributed through a process called four-wall distribution, something I'm kind of doing with Daughters of the Domino right now, whereupon the studio rented venues to show the film and kept all the box office revenue. Outside the United States and Canada, Warner Bros. distributed the film.

[3:22] Andrew DeWolf: On the review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes, 30% of 20 critics' reviews are positive.

[3:27] Jesse McAnally: The website's consensus reads, Journey Back to Oz amounts to nothing more than a crude, awkwardly animated, charm-starved misfire.

[3:36] Andrew DeWolf: The plot of Journey Back to Oz is, once back in Oz, Dorothy sets off for the Emerald City to see her old friend the Scarecrow, but soon she encounters Mom Bee, the evil cousin of her old nemesis, the Wicked Witch of the West, who plans to use her evil sorcery to depose the Scarecrow and install herself as queen of the Emerald City.

[3:55] Jesse McAnally: So what did you think of this one, Andrew?

[3:59] Andrew DeWolf: This one felt like a fucking after-school special kind of fucking shit, you know, like a Saturday morning cartoon. It sucked. I don't know.

[4:09] Jesse McAnally: I also felt like this would have been fine for like a TV movie, you know?

[4:16] Andrew DeWolf: But seeing it was put in theaters...

[4:19] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I didn't even know that. I kind of assumed that you had pulled this from like, oh, this is like a TV movie that they aired at a certain point.

[4:26] Andrew DeWolf: They put this shit in fucking theaters, dude? This is not theater quality material here.

[4:32] Jesse McAnally: It's so fascinating, because it is really trying to be in conversation with the Judy Garland film, so much that they cast her own daughter as Dorothy. And I gotta say, Liza Minelli is doing a pitch-perfect impression of Judy Garland in this.

[4:46] Andrew DeWolf: It is remarkable how much she just sounds like her.

[4:51] Jesse McAnally: But it also hurts the movie, I think. It makes it feel like they're just trying to rehash Wizard of Oz, but in a much less interesting way with a much less interesting story.

[5:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. I mean, that's not even the only cameo from the third... Like, Margaret Hamilton, who played the Wicked Witch, is Aunt Em. There's so much just random shit in there.

[5:13] Jesse McAnally: So, development of this film actually began in 1962, before the Wonderful Land of Oz, which we covered last week with Sideways. But they ran out of money, and the unfinished film was shelved for nearly eight years.

[5:29] Andrew DeWolf: After, basically, Filmation started doing TV shows and TV specials and everything, they were able to finance and basically able to finish the film and get it released in 1972.

[5:42] Jesse McAnally: When they were making this, this was supposed to be Liza Minelli's big break. And by the time it came out, she had already been in Cabaret and won an Oscar.

[5:58] Andrew DeWolf: That's funny, dude. That's funny.

[6:00] Jesse McAnally: It really was like that.

[6:02] Andrew DeWolf: And the mischief comes out, and it's like, oh, why'd she do this?

[6:08] Jesse McAnally: And, like, Mickey Rooney was famously, like, the boyfriend, like, cohort in all of Judy Garland's films as a kid. And now he's playing the Scarecrow, who is the quote unquote romantic interest for Dorothy in that film.

[6:22] Andrew DeWolf: They are playing a lot with those, like, Judy Garland's, like, we love her. You love that MGM film, kids.

[6:32] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I mean, unlike what we just covered, Wonderful Land of Oz.

[6:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[6:38] Jesse McAnally: This one does not, it doesn't feel like it adheres particularly strongly to the novel, I don't think. We make sure to have cameos with all of the Wizard of Oz cast. We have Tin Man, Scarecrow, and the Lion.

[6:54] Andrew DeWolf: And borderline cameos, but yeah, they're there.

[6:57] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, Dorothy is the lead.

[6:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, not Tip.

[7:00] Jesse McAnally: Specifically. Tip does not exist. There's no Ozma, there's no Tip.

[7:04] Andrew DeWolf: We do have Jack Pumpkinhead, played by Paul Lynde, and I think he's probably, like, my favorite guy in this movie, like, as far as characters.

[7:12] Jesse McAnally: He's doing, like, a, what is that, what is that, a tiger that's like, exit to stage left.

[7:12] Andrew DeWolf: Snagglepuss.

[7:20] Jesse McAnally: Snagglepuss. It feels like that to me.

[7:23] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I get it, but that is just how Paul Lynde talked. That's his vibe.

[7:29] Jesse McAnally: He was a very famously gay man who kept, like, was closeted, but everyone kind of knew.

[7:36] Andrew DeWolf: So he had a very iconic voice. I don't know if you remember Bye Bye Birdie.

[7:36] Jesse McAnally: No.

[7:41] Andrew DeWolf: But he was, like, the dad character in that.

[7:41] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[7:43] Andrew DeWolf: He's also the rat in Charlotte's Web, but I don't know if that counts as anything.

[7:47] Jesse McAnally: I just gotta, my memory is terrible on some of these things. I've seen Charlotte's Web as a kid a bunch, but yeah.

[7:53] Andrew DeWolf: I think he's, like, the only character that was, or actor that feels suited to their character. Like, they're putting a performance on where everyone else just feels like, well, we're gonna use our normal voice and deliver these lines.

[8:05] Jesse McAnally: Except, I lied, Ethel Merman as Mambi. Horrendously underused, but giving it 100% of the effort.

[8:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think Mambi is my favorite.

[8:15] Jesse McAnally: So, okay, I think if I were to complement this at all comparatively to what we covered last week, I think having Mambi be the main villain just throughout, it makes more sense.

[8:27] Andrew DeWolf: Let's talk about Mambi and her plan.

[8:27] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[8:30] Andrew DeWolf: So what is the story of the journey back to Oz?

[8:35] Jesse McAnally: So Dorothy honestly just kind of wants to go back to Oz because she's just like, I miss my friend the Scarecrow, who is now the king of the Emerald City of Oz.

[8:46] Andrew DeWolf: So she just kind of, she is in Kansas at the start, but she basically goes to Oz immediately.

[8:53] Jesse McAnally: Another cyclone.

[8:55] Andrew DeWolf: They couldn't have even figured out a new way to get her to Oz.

[8:58] Jesse McAnally: It's exactly the same, and Toto's still there too.

[9:02] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, they just go.

[9:04] Jesse McAnally: I guess getting to Oz is not as difficult as we thought.

[9:08] Andrew DeWolf: So she goes, she wants to meet the Scarecrow.

[9:13] Jesse McAnally: She meets some colorful characters on the way.

[9:17] Andrew DeWolf: She meets a road sign that talks.

[9:21] Jesse McAnally: And the road sign gets his own song.

[9:23] Andrew DeWolf: He is never seen again, but he gets his own song.

[9:26] Jesse McAnally: I thought maybe he was going to be one of the traveling companions this time.

[9:26] Andrew DeWolf: You would think that.

[9:26] Jesse McAnally: No.

[9:32] Andrew DeWolf: But then she meets Pumpkinhead, who is a slave to Mambi, which she then goes and she meets Mambi because Toto is a little dumbfuck dog.

[9:48] Jesse McAnally: He tries to kill a cat.

[9:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[9:51] Jesse McAnally: Mambi is like up to no good. You could tell there's something weird going on.

[9:55] Andrew DeWolf: She's brewing up some potion with elephants.

[9:58] Jesse McAnally: So fucking Dorothy's like, I got to go warn the Scarecrow about Mambi.

[10:04] Andrew DeWolf: And so she does.

[10:05] Jesse McAnally: She runs off with Pumpkinhead to go warn the Scarecrow.

[10:08] Andrew DeWolf: But the Scarecrow doesn't have like an army or anything.

[10:10] Jesse McAnally: And so Mambi just kind of shows up with her army of green elephants and fucks it all up.

[10:16] Andrew DeWolf: It fucks up everything.

[10:17] Jesse McAnally: It turns it into like Scars, like Pride Rock, where it's like suddenly it's red.

[10:22] Andrew DeWolf: Can we play the sound effect?

[10:24] Jesse McAnally: Do you mean the elephant sound that plays?

[10:29] Andrew DeWolf: The one.

[10:29] Jesse McAnally: They have one elephant sound that they play continuously throughout the entire fucking movie and never ends.

[10:36] Andrew DeWolf: I think I would try to do an imitation.

[10:38] Jesse McAnally: It's like.

[10:48] Andrew DeWolf: Secret exit.

[10:50] Jesse McAnally: It's our only chance.

[10:52] Andrew DeWolf: Over and over and over.

[10:53] Jesse McAnally: It's the same thing over and over and over and over again.

[10:55] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, you caught that, too.

[10:56] Jesse McAnally: It's like, of course I did. I'm not stupid.

[11:03] Andrew DeWolf: I have ears.

[11:03] Jesse McAnally: They had like W.A.V. elephant.

[11:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they were like, let's just drop that in.

[11:09] Jesse McAnally: Oh, there's elephants on screen. Drop that in.

[11:12] Andrew DeWolf: They had five dollars to make this movie.

[11:16] Jesse McAnally: So you could come up with like at least like three to loop through you.

[11:16] Andrew DeWolf: One.

[11:21] Jesse McAnally: You got one sound.

[11:23] Andrew DeWolf: Elephants are such an important part of this plot.

[11:25] Jesse McAnally: And he didn't think to maybe did a few more out of the.

[11:30] Jesse McAnally: God, I was thinking of fucking you're not gonna get this probably but somebody out there will Dalsim stage and in Street Fighter 2 where they repeat the fucking same elephant sound over and over again. Somebody's got that. But anyways, so they get kicked out of Emerald City. Scarecrow gets kidnapped total gets kidnapped but Pumpkinhead and Dorothy are like we got to somehow save them. So they go and they go to Tin Land and they meet the Tin Man and Tin Man is like I am so strong.

[12:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, well, you forgot to bring up like her new friends. You've got the merry-go-round.

[12:06] Jesse McAnally: Fucking. Oh, that's right. They meet him here.

[12:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah, they met him before didn't they? Yeah, they met him before they even met the scarecrow. That's true. That's true.

[12:16] Jesse McAnally: I for some reason I thought they met him in Tin Land, but they don't know. He's a merry-go-round horse that wants to not be a merry-go-round horse.

[12:25] Andrew DeWolf: And I like the fact that he just talks like a crime boss.

[12:25] Jesse McAnally: Yes. He's loosely based on the saw horse character which was just like a weird piece of wood with sticks that kind of looks horse-like and in the book tip just pours like the come-to-life juice on him and he's just like.

[12:50] Andrew DeWolf: Then he has like chiseled shit onto him to be almost a functioning thing.

[12:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's not as interesting as that.

[12:59] Andrew DeWolf: No, he's just like hey, I'm gonna fight you. Don't you talk bad about me? I'm I'm I will be a noble steed or something. You've got connections.

[13:02] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, they ride him around all over the place and then they have the I feel like they have one other friend, but I can't even remember now.

[13:13] Andrew DeWolf: We got it's Jack and yeah that guy that's it.

[13:13] Jesse McAnally: Oh, yeah, it's just it's just that guy.

[13:19] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and then and then they kind of they cycle out different people because they have the scarecrow and then they have the tin man and then they have the cow or the lion steps in for like one scene.

[13:24] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, so it's just yeah. And then a song about how they're scared of elephants.

[13:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah green green elephants.

[13:34] Jesse McAnally: But I guess green elephants are known for being more scary. Is it green just because Emerald City?

[13:39] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's green because it's a witch. All right, it doesn't matter. It doesn't fucking matter. They go to tin land they asked him in for help. No, they go to the lion ask him for help. No, no.

[13:50] Jesse McAnally: So then they asked the witch the good witch Linda Linda who just kind of show like not much like the the wonderful land of Oz or whatever the she just shows up.

[14:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and it's the dumbest shit too because she just solves everything. She literally just solves all the problems.

[14:10] Jesse McAnally: Kind of but she's also like I I can't sell the problem and they're like, oh, but I'm on and she's like, yeah, I guess I can it's like this convoluted thing. It's like oh, I'll just give you this but you have to use it only at the you can't use it when you think you need to use it. You need to use it when you really really need to use the only thing she gives her at first is a box of mice and she's like don't use it till you're in the Emerald City and then the mice scare away all the elephants.

[14:35] Andrew DeWolf: Which basically just immediately solves the problem because without the elephants there mambi is just like an old lady.

[14:44] Jesse McAnally: And then they defeat mambi and mommy turns into a rose which is from the book and turns into a rose to disguise herself.

[14:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yes before they defeat her technically.

[14:54] Jesse McAnally: Well, I mean it's after they kind of defeat her but they're still chasing her and she disguises herself as a rose and then elephants step on it and fucking murder her and she dies like fully fucking dies.

[15:06] Andrew DeWolf: But because she dies Jack pumpkinhead dies cuz she made Jack come to life with her magic.

[15:11] Jesse McAnally: That is true, but pumpkinhead comes back to life because Dorothy cries.

[15:15] Andrew DeWolf: I think yes that window is like hey, you just have to like feel real hard. I guess.

[15:22] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and yeah, so pumpkinhead comes back and that's that's like it. They they go home to Kansas. They briefly do the thing where it's like I don't know how I'm gonna get home, but then they're actually like no, it's actually really easy you just would just do another cyclone and that's it.

[15:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and the movie wraps up.

[15:39] Jesse McAnally: Um, I gotta say not not the most impressive but I think some of the backgrounds look really nice like the animation is shit, but the like actual backdrops are very pretty.

[15:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, I think genuinely, I think for the era this was made it looks fine like it looks like average compared to other animation from this era. Am I am I mistaken? I feel like 70 1970s like animation was like fucking shit at that time.

[16:08] Jesse McAnally: It's like that that was like there was like the the era where animation looks super good and then it kind of like ended in like the 60s at some point and then we had like Hanna-barbera like shit for fucking 30 years.

[16:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Yeah. I think it was when it stopped being in theaters animation like because they animation used to be just like little cartoons I played before the pictures and the problem is this was in theaters.

[16:31] Jesse McAnally: Oh fuck you're right.

[16:40] Andrew DeWolf: But yeah, I say this is fine. Like I think this is gonna be the one where I'm just like it's okay like it's hard to have like a very intense and negative feeling about this because there's stuff I like.

[16:54] Jesse McAnally: I really like Liza Minelli's voice performance. I was I didn't despise the songs like they're obviously written by competent songwriters.

[17:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, no, I I mean, I think there's enough in here that's not horrendous that it's hard to have like a strong negative opinion, but I think I disliked this one more than I disliked the previous one because I feel like it's just boring.

[17:23] Jesse McAnally: I think I'm more frustrated at this one because the potential is there you know what I mean?

[17:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this one it's like, you know, you could have maybe made a decent like it feels like you had the capability to make something good whereas like the previous one it's like you could tell they're trying their ass off like they and it's like eat they just it was never gonna have their ceiling is so much lower it was never gonna happen.

[17:49] Jesse McAnally: Whereas this one it's like it's it's like they're like, and you know, like well we got some stuff but like character actors, I like you got some really impressive like, you know they got some pretty good gets and this this film was pretty successful on T as a TV film.

[18:07] Andrew DeWolf: So when I started airing on TV, they had a wraparounds with Milton Berle who played who played the lion who you might remember from? It's a mad mad mad world who said it just sailed out there.

[18:14] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's also got the biggest cock in Hollywood. I've heard that.

[18:21] Andrew DeWolf: I've heard that like it's a section on his Wikipedia.

[18:29] Jesse McAnally: Do you want to know who the other person that filmed wraparound stories in for this specific film?

[18:35] Andrew DeWolf: Who?

[18:35] Jesse McAnally: He's crazy canceled. He was really big at the time in the 70s Bill Cosby.

[18:35] Andrew DeWolf: That is it, baby.

[18:44] Jesse McAnally: Fuck did I actually get it?

[18:48] Andrew DeWolf: That's crazy wait what really yeah, so it was Milton Berle who did wraparounds like hey, we're back to our journey back to us let's get back to the film and also Bill Cosby. Let's get back to the film.

[19:02] Jesse McAnally: That's a decent Bill Cosby.

[19:06] Andrew DeWolf: No way to use it like.

[19:09] Jesse McAnally: There's nothing funny about a Cosby impression anymore.

[19:12] Andrew DeWolf: No, the only people use it for is to pretend that they're gonna do something horrible.

[19:12] Jesse McAnally: Oh speaking of that, let's go into a mid show.

[19:19] Andrew DeWolf: Hey guys the whole mid show.

[19:28] Jesse McAnally: Absolutely that one down I have very few lines, but that was one of them you found it.

[19:42] Andrew DeWolf: Lucky charm is the frosted oat cereal of a sweet surprises pink hearts yellow moons are in stars clovers and blue diamonds part of a complete breakfast.

[19:49] Jesse McAnally: Hey guys start interrupting a little show we've got a shill at you today's shows brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at patreon Andrew tells a little bit about patreon what's going on there? Who's supporting us man?

[20:03] Andrew DeWolf: Patreon is where you can go if you'd like to drop us some dough and also get yourself some extra content. You can watch our stuff live. You can watch video recordings of our stuff. You can see that Jess currently has a beautiful pencil mustache.

[20:18] Jesse McAnally: Look at that. It will only last I think for this recording. I think it will be a long gone by the next recording.

[20:24] Andrew DeWolf: So this is likely I look like a true blue right now.

[20:28] Jesse McAnally: He really does it's it is.

[20:32] Andrew DeWolf: It's really highlighting the gap in my front of my teeth in a way that I don't think I had anticipated when I did this.

[20:37] Jesse McAnally: I do think you have the facial structure. You could rock a pencil mustache. You just need to not wear whatever you're wearing.

[20:49] Andrew DeWolf: Hawaiian shirt would be the only thing worse.

[20:52] Jesse McAnally: Like you you really have the worst kind of outfit on right now for a pencil mustache. You got to be wearing like a like a suit, you know.

[20:58] Andrew DeWolf: I will be this is for my Gomez Adams Halloween costume recording.

[21:02] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you'll look good. You'll look good in that just.

[21:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's not it's not the vibe today. Well, we're talking about the Wizard of Oz, but anyways our current patrons are.

[21:44] Jesse McAnally: Anna B, Gold Play, Kiki Mora, Ari Arty, Go Carl Baldasso, JRL Studios, Fiber D, Jigot, Caleb Bailey, Davin Willis, Sofita Hurtado, Pants Pants, Casey Denning, Daniel Fenn, Liz Monroe, J Mitch and Rebecca.

[22:02] Andrew DeWolf: These folks give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at B school so cheese if you'd like to join them in supporting us get tons of fun perks come join us over on patreon.

[22:12] Jesse McAnally: Let's get back to the show.

[22:58] Jesse McAnally: Hey, where's the beef? I don't think there's anybody back there.

[23:01] Andrew DeWolf: You want something better? You're Wendy's kind of people.

[23:04] Jesse McAnally: It's time for everyone's favorite part of the show. We're interested to guess whether these are one-star or five-star reviews on Letterboxd based on nothing but the review alone. It's time for Breviews. It's time for Breviews. Breviews. Breviews. Breviews. It's time for Breviews.

[23:25] Jesse McAnally: All right. This is going to be lightning fast because we don't want to be here all day. Are you ready, sir?

[23:30] Andrew DeWolf: I am absolutely ready. I think I'm going to nail this one.

[23:34] Jesse McAnally: I think you are too. I think I might have been lazier.

[23:38] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, no.

[23:42] Jesse McAnally: You know, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

[23:45] Andrew DeWolf: You don't have to admit it. All right. You're ready?

[23:48] Jesse McAnally: Mm-hmm. All in caps. An enormous herd of green elephants.

[23:53] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that is a very important element. I'm going to say that that is a five.

[23:57] Jesse McAnally: Wrong. That was a one.

[23:59] Andrew DeWolf: How is it immediately? Jesus Christ. Okay. All right. Pumpkinhead doesn't get a song, but the sign outside did. Dot, dot, dot. Okay.

[24:09] Jesse McAnally: That's a one. No way.

[24:10] Andrew DeWolf: That was a five.

[24:12] Jesse McAnally: What the fuck are these people doing? Okay. They want Pumpkinhead to have a song. So. But why did they give it a five?

[24:24] Andrew DeWolf: All right. All right. Here we go. It's rough, but it's still better than either of the Wicked films. The cast is so good. And there were some fun animation choices.

[24:33] Jesse McAnally: Jesus Christ. If this is a one, it is the best bait of all time. So I'm going to go five.

[24:39] Andrew DeWolf: That is a one! It was the best bait of all time!

[24:42] Jesse McAnally: Jesus Christ. It's literally just complimenting the movie.

[24:45] Andrew DeWolf: I was also like, when I saw that, I was like, ooh, I'm going to take that. They're literally just like, yeah, this movie is quite good. In fact, it's better than these two contemporary movies that most people consider better.

[24:57] Jesse McAnally: But how much did they hate Wicked?

[25:00] Andrew DeWolf: They must have fucking despised Wicked. Holy shit. What's the deal with the green elephants? Why is everyone specifically scared of green elephants? Why are they so powerful?

[25:12] Jesse McAnally: You found my review. He found my review. That's got to be a one.

[25:15] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct.

[25:17] Jesse McAnally: Okay. They're always freaked out when they hear green elephants.

[25:23] Andrew DeWolf: A green elephant?

[25:26] Jesse McAnally: Doug Walker could not help but think. You put a green elephant in Wizard of Oz?

[25:32] Andrew DeWolf: She tried to go to the nostalgia critic to help, but he said no, they were green elephants.

[25:38] Jesse McAnally: Oh, C-R-I-T-C spells critic.

[25:52] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, God. Okay, two more. They sent the Cowardly Lion to conversion camp. This cast is on so many pills you could open a pharmacy.

[26:04] Jesse McAnally: Two separate thoughts.

[26:06] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Jesus.

[26:08] Jesse McAnally: One. That was a five. You're wrong.

[26:11] Andrew DeWolf: All right, last one. What the fuck, man? Last one. Dear Liza Minnelli, I watched this to reach 100% on your Letterboxd filmography.

[26:21] Jesse McAnally: Okay, that's got to be a one.

[26:23] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. You ended on a high one.

[26:26] Jesse McAnally: Okay. Jesus, you said you were being lazy. Some of those were tough.

[26:30] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's part of the laziness. You know what I mean?

[26:36] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, maybe. Let's talk about, oh my goodness, let's talk about some of these songs.

[26:43] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not stalling. Let's talk about the opening number and the I Want song, A Far Away Land.

[26:51] Jesse McAnally: There's a far away land, a far away land, a far away land, where daydreams and wishes and rainbows are planned.

[27:07] Andrew DeWolf: Twice as far as a star may seem. It's no fucking Over the Rainbow.

[27:16] Jesse McAnally: I will say, God, it reminded me why they almost cut Over the Rainbow. You know what I mean? There's that story of like, oh, we almost cut out Over the Rainbow, and how could we think that? Here I'm like, oh, I get it. It slows down the pace. We didn't really need it, did we? You know, unless you accidentally write one of the greatest songs in the world, maybe you don't need that song.

[27:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's kind of like, it just slows down the time to get to Oz, and you're just kind of like, why? I don't care. And her want is so vague of just like, I remember this place I used to like, and I kind of want to go back, but just for a temporary period. But then she just does. So it's like, it's not even really her like, want. It's just kind of like, the thing she does in the next five minutes.

[28:05] Jesse McAnally: Exactly. Like, at least Return to Oz has the like, this shit existed and no one believes me kind of aspect. And that's kind of here, where people are just like, why aren't you working, you little shit? Which is just the energy that they have toward Dorothy.

[28:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but it doesn't have quite the like, dystopian vibe that Return to Oz has, where it's like...

[28:28] Jesse McAnally: No, they do not take her to get electric shock therapy, no.

[28:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's more just like, she's just kind of like, I don't really like doing the work around the farm right now. Can I go to Oz? You see, they had at least done like, I want to go escape my troubles. That is something. But here she's just kind of like, oh, this was nice. This was a nice place.

[28:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. So I'm going to give this one a solid five out of ten. Then we've got the signpost song.

[29:13] Andrew DeWolf: Should not be in the movie.

[29:15] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, this one just... we get introduced to Oz, and the first thing we see is a singing signpost that we never see ever again. He has a problem. He's like, I never know where to go. But he's like, hey, call me when you get to Emerald City.

[29:28] Andrew DeWolf: And she never does.

[29:29] Jesse McAnally: She never does. He doesn't... we don't find out if he actually gave good directions or not. In fact, I'm pretty sure he didn't. Sent her right to Momby.

[29:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. He sucked. We never saw him again. Not interesting. Just like...

[29:41] Jesse McAnally: Then we have Keep a Happy Thought, which is Dorothy, like... I want to see... it almost feels like she's having a non-sequitur moment with this song. Do you remember this?

[30:08] Andrew DeWolf: I can't remember where they placed it. It's like after they escape from Momby, but before they meet the fucking horse.

[30:14] Jesse McAnally: Oh, you're right. Yeah, yeah. This was just... yeah, I don't know why this was here.

[30:20] Andrew DeWolf: So far, we have three songs that were like, oh, why did we have this? It's kind of like they just hadn't had a song in a couple minutes, so they're like, eh, we got to put something in here, don't we?

[30:30] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and I just want to shove in like one corner. The B-R-A-N-E, H-E-A-R-T, and N-E-R-V-E songs.

[30:40] Andrew DeWolf: Ass.

[31:00] Jesse McAnally: The song itself sucks. I will say, I think it's fun to have this through line where all three of the characters are given their own reason to not want to help her or not because they can't. Their resentment toward the gift that they were given, quote unquote, at the end. I think that that's good. I think that the song sucks.

[31:23] Andrew DeWolf: I think the spelling motif kind of works for the scarecrow because, you know, it's kind of showing that he never really had a brain. I don't know why the other ones are spelling.

[31:32] Jesse McAnally: Exactly. There's no joke there because the joke with the brain one is that he spells brain incorrectly. And we set up that he was doing a crossword. So the word thing is already part of it. I was giving it the slightest bit of credit for that one.

[31:46] Andrew DeWolf: But then they get to the tin man and they get to the lion and it's like, they're also spelling theirs out. And now the only reason they're doing it is because the scarecrow did it. So it makes them all have the same thing. And it's like, I like that they have the same motif there, but you needed to make it work for all of them. You can't just have it work for one and then use it for the other two as well.

[32:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. And then I really just want to talk about if you're going to be a witch, be a witch.

[32:13] Andrew DeWolf: If you're gonna be a witch, be a witch, not a wishy-washy witch, but a witch, be that witch which all the witches follow.

[32:27] Jesse McAnally: Not her only song, but their best song. Well, An Elephant Never Forgets, her other song, doesn't have any fucking purpose. It's literally just about the fact that there's elephants on screen. So...

[32:36] Andrew DeWolf: Not worth talking about.

[32:38] Jesse McAnally: No. That's a running theme with a lot of these songs. There really isn't a fucking reason for them to be here.

[32:45] Andrew DeWolf: This one at least has a narrative through line.

[32:49] Jesse McAnally: It's true. I think that this song is maybe one of the better ones in the whole thing. I think it might accidentally be the best song in the fucking movie. The sad thing is, though, I don't think that's saying anything because I think that this song isn't that good either.

[33:03] Andrew DeWolf: It's literally just, if you're gonna be a witch, be a witch, that's it.

[33:08] Jesse McAnally: But you have Ethel Merman giving a hundred percent. Yeah, so it's got energy to it. It has enough that it's like, if this was the worst song in it, it would be pretty good. But this is the best song in it.

[33:21] Andrew DeWolf: There's something visually going on, as opposed to just people on screen singing, where a lot of the other ones is just like, we're watching them sing, especially Dorothy's songs.

[33:32] Jesse McAnally: There's actually a lot of songs in this, though, which is kind of surprising.

[33:36] Andrew DeWolf: For the short amount of runtime, yes.

[33:39] Jesse McAnally: Like, I mean, we're talking like 10 to 12 songs, depending on what we're counting.

[33:44] Andrew DeWolf: Shit, yeah, you're right. And in the last bit, I do want to talk about Dorothy's last song.

[33:50] Jesse McAnally: You feel when you hear a train.

[34:00] Andrew DeWolf: There's a sad little feeling you feel that you can't explain.

[34:27] Jesse McAnally: But as far as vibe, like, this just feels like they're saying the same thing of like, I want to go home. And part of me always hungered for a finale song for Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz because the last song in The Wizard of Oz is King of the Forest. And I think we need one more.

[34:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So I think I understand it, but I'm not sure this song does it.

[34:51] Jesse McAnally: Really?

[34:52] Andrew DeWolf: No, but I am like, I see the desire to put it there. This is like one of those songs, I'm like, I don't like it, but I see why you did it.

[35:00] Jesse McAnally: I feel like with both the first song and the last song, I just felt like, oh, you guys really wanted to put Somewhere Over the Rainbow in this movie, but you can't. You're not allowed to.

[35:11] Andrew DeWolf: I, yeah. It's hard to ignore the, we reheated nachos of The Wizard of Oz in this movie throughout.

[35:24] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it really is. I think the fact that they literally revisit each of the characters, it's just like, there's no reason for fucking the cowardly lion to be in this fucking movie.

[35:36] Andrew DeWolf: Like, he just doesn't do anything.

[35:36] Jesse McAnally: I kind of respect the fact that The Wonderful Land of Oz just did not talk about the cowardly lion. He did not exist in that movie.

[35:45] Andrew DeWolf: He didn't need to be. It's like, you know, he did his thing in Wizard of Oz. He's done. Like, we don't need to have him back. He's a fucking lion. What are we going to do?

[35:54] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. So, I mean, as far as songs go, I'd say overall, this is one of the biggest duds we've probably ever covered as far as like, there's just nothing good in here.

[36:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Like, there's potential. Like, once again, it's frustrating, because there's the potential of shit with this.

[36:10] Jesse McAnally: What do you think the best song is? Do you think it is, if you're going to be a witch, be a witch?

[36:13] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's either you're going to be a witch, be a witch, or the feeling of home.

[36:16] Jesse McAnally: Feeling for home.

[36:17] Andrew DeWolf: We didn't talk about the horse on the carousel. That's the only one we skipped.

[36:21] Jesse McAnally: And we skipped the other elephant never forgets, but yeah, the horse on the carousel.

[36:26] Andrew DeWolf: A pain on the ears.

[36:28] Jesse McAnally: Some horses win derbies and world acclaim, while others jump hurdles in search of fame.

[36:35] Andrew DeWolf: Some horses take pride because they ride at the head of the cavalry.

[36:42] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, no, this one, I think I thought was particularly not good.

[36:47] Andrew DeWolf: I think it looks pretty like that's the only thing like, I think this one specifically looks nice.

[36:52] Jesse McAnally: I think this is my favorite character as well, even if he doesn't really do much.

[36:57] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah, he's a fuck it.

[37:00] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think he's a fun character.

[37:02] Andrew DeWolf: He's a cynical character, which you don't get in The Wizard of Oz much. Everyone's fairly optimistic.

[37:08] Jesse McAnally: And he doesn't really change that either. Like, by the end, he's still just like, I remember that easy job, that easy, high paying job you wanted to get me. Or can I get that, please?

[37:17] Andrew DeWolf: And then he gets it.

[37:18] Jesse McAnally: His arc is he wants an easy, high paying job, and his ending is he gets one.

[37:23] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? A relatable goal.

[37:26] Jesse McAnally: It's been my goal for most of my adult life.

[37:29] Andrew DeWolf: One day you'll get it because I will be king or something.

[37:33] Jesse McAnally: Thank you, Scarecrow.

[37:34] Andrew DeWolf: I don't like that.

[37:35] Jesse McAnally: The Scarecrow just goes back to being king again at the end when it's obvious he's not going to be good at it.

[37:40] Andrew DeWolf: The Scarecrow is a terrible king, and they even they demonstrate it in this. He can't even do a fucking crossword puzzle.

[37:47] Jesse McAnally: I mean, imagine if there was some trans goddess that took over.

[37:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's it literally feels like it's relevant for today's because this is what we need in America. We need to replace the dumbest man alive with a trans goddess as president.

[38:03] Jesse McAnally: He's 100 percent.

[38:04] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? Where's our tip radius or whatever to become Ozma?

[38:10] Jesse McAnally: I believe they're out there.

[38:13] Andrew DeWolf: Soon, soon.

[38:15] Jesse McAnally: Anything else you have left to say about Journey Back to Oz?

[38:17] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, as far as our Oz sequel, is it better than Tom and Jerry Back to Oz?

[38:23] Jesse McAnally: I think that's a tough one.

[38:24] Andrew DeWolf: I think do we want to do like a quick ranking of all the Oz stuff? Because I feel like we're covering a lot of Oz stuff.

[38:29] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[38:31] Andrew DeWolf: Remind people what we've done.

[38:32] Jesse McAnally: Like, what have we done?

[38:34] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's a good. Do you have a list of it?

[38:36] Jesse McAnally: I have a list.

[38:36] Andrew DeWolf: I'm good. I got it.

[38:38] Jesse McAnally: So on our ill-fated spinoff podcast, Disney Plus Cheese, we covered Return to Oz.

[38:44] Andrew DeWolf: Do you have your ranking section?

[38:47] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think Return to Oz is a solid.

[38:49] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, wait, are we ranking Wizard of Oz on this?

[38:52] Jesse McAnally: Oh, yeah. Wizard of Oz is also on there.

[38:54] Andrew DeWolf: I was going by the chronological that we did.

[38:56] Jesse McAnally: OK, I'm still going to put Return to Oz in A, which maybe is too high.

[39:02] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe you can talk me down to B.

[39:04] Jesse McAnally: I don't think I want to, you know?

[39:07] Andrew DeWolf: I liked Return to Oz. I actually think it's a fun movie. I would recommend it.

[39:11] Jesse McAnally: Then we have The Muppets Wizard of Oz.

[39:13] Andrew DeWolf: That is fucking D.

[39:15] Jesse McAnally: I would put it in F if I could, but I don't have an F ranking.

[39:18] Andrew DeWolf: I fucking hated that.

[39:20] Jesse McAnally: The absolute worst Muppets content maybe ever made.

[39:24] Andrew DeWolf: Hard to fight with that.

[39:27] Jesse McAnally: Probably worst Wizard of Oz and worst Muppets content combined.

[39:32] Andrew DeWolf: It's very possible.

[39:32] Jesse McAnally: That's big considering what we covered last week.

[39:35] Andrew DeWolf: I would rather watch what we covered last week than Muppets Wizard of Oz, and I think you are in complete agreement.

[39:35] Jesse McAnally: I am.

[39:35] Andrew DeWolf: Muppets Wizard of Oz is rough.

[39:45] Jesse McAnally: It's fucking bad.

[39:49] Andrew DeWolf: Then we have The Wiz.

[39:50] Jesse McAnally: Oh, The Wiz is A.

[39:52] Andrew DeWolf: The Wiz is an A.

[39:53] Jesse McAnally: I agree. I love The Wiz.

[39:55] Andrew DeWolf: The Wiz is great.

[39:57] Jesse McAnally: We will cover one day, sooner rather than later, The Wiz 70s movie starring Michael Jackson and Diana Ross, which is an entirely different creature than the stage musical.

[40:07] Andrew DeWolf: OK, I mean, I'm interested to see what they did with it.

[40:10] Jesse McAnally: Bold choices by screenwriter.

[40:13] Andrew DeWolf: What's his name?

[40:15] Jesse McAnally: What the fuck? Joel Schumacher.

[40:16] Andrew DeWolf: Ah, Schumacher.

[40:18] Jesse McAnally: I feel like when he makes bold choices, it can really go either way.

[40:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, I kind of like his Phantom movie adaptation, despite it being bad.

[40:25] Jesse McAnally: I feel like he actually has good movies, but people remember him a lot for his bad movies, which is weird.

[40:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[40:31] Jesse McAnally: Then, of course, the original Wizard of Oz.

[40:33] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, obviously, A.

[40:34] Jesse McAnally: I mean, come on, I'm not a weirdo.

[40:38] Andrew DeWolf: You're not just going to be different to be different.

[40:41] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's good. It's a great movie.

[40:43] Andrew DeWolf: Then we have Tom and Jerry back to Oz.

[40:48] Jesse McAnally: Here's my bold take. I think that's worse than Muppet Wizard of Oz.

[40:51] Andrew DeWolf: You think so?

[40:52] Jesse McAnally: I try to remember how much I hated it. I'm like, is it as bad as Muppet Wizard of Oz? I remember it's not good.

[40:58] Andrew DeWolf: It was like we recorded it at like noon on a weekday where we were like, oh, yeah. And it was in the heat of COVID. And I just remember being so angry.

[41:07] Jesse McAnally: I was watching it and I was watching it with you, making content for everyone else and just feeling angry that I was watching it.

[41:14] Andrew DeWolf: OK, you're no, you're absolutely right. It's in competition with Muppets Wizard of Oz.

[41:19] Jesse McAnally: I think I hate Muppets Wizard of Oz more because.

[41:22] Andrew DeWolf: You love the Muppets so much.

[41:23] Jesse McAnally: Perhaps because I like the Muppets. Where I was just like, I felt my soul dying as we watched it.

[41:30] Andrew DeWolf: And I don't even get negative like that while we watch garbage.

[41:34] Jesse McAnally: If I remember the crazy thing about that was Tom and Jerry didn't do shit in that movie.

[41:39] Andrew DeWolf: And also it was done by the Dear Evan Hansen guys.

[41:42] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and yeah, the music really was like fucking bland. I remember that.

[41:45] Andrew DeWolf: Then we have the Wonderful Land of Oz.

[41:47] Jesse McAnally: Wonderful Land of Oz, I think is C.

[41:54] Andrew DeWolf: I think so, too.

[41:56] Jesse McAnally: I think that it's interesting enough.

[41:58] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, we talked about that with Sideways for like over an hour.

[42:02] Jesse McAnally: And we still had more we could talk about.

[42:04] Andrew DeWolf: There was more to say. It's just we just kind of were like, well, we got to end this.

[42:09] Jesse McAnally: Then we have this week's Journey Back to Oz.

[42:13] Andrew DeWolf: I think this is right below Wonderful Land of Oz for me.

[42:16] Jesse McAnally: I would rather watch Wonderful Land of Oz than this.

[42:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but I don't think it's on the Tom and Jerry or the Muppets tier.

[42:24] Jesse McAnally: I think it's definitely above that.

[42:26] Andrew DeWolf: Absolutely.

[42:29] Jesse McAnally: There's enough here where I'm like it could have been. The thing is, it could have been a worthy sequel.

[42:34] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's one of those things where it's just it has elements that are not terrible.

[42:39] Jesse McAnally: But overall, it's kind of terrible.

[42:42] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah, it's boring.

[42:44] Jesse McAnally: It's boring is what it is.

[42:46] Andrew DeWolf: That's like the real issue.

[42:47] Jesse McAnally: It's just like I'm like, uh, fucking that.

[42:49] Andrew DeWolf: And the one thing that I think I really genuinely did hate was that they just repeated the same elephant sound effect.

[42:54] Jesse McAnally: And that sounds like a nitpick, but I swear it is not a nitpick.

[42:58] Andrew DeWolf: It's most of the movie.

[43:00] Jesse McAnally: If you watch this, that is.

[43:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's got to be like 30% of the fucking movie.

[43:05] Jesse McAnally: And on that note, what is our overall thoughts on Journey Back to Oz?

[43:10] Andrew DeWolf: Are cheese ready?

[43:14] Jesse McAnally: Andrew, what you got?

[43:16] Andrew DeWolf: Journey Back to Oz is, uh, it's it certainly exists.

[43:21] Jesse McAnally: I don't know.

[43:23] Andrew DeWolf: It does not leave an impression. I'll say that.

[43:26] Jesse McAnally: I will forget about this quickly.

[43:28] Andrew DeWolf: Sadly, like everything else he's ever covered.

[43:33] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, well, this is some stuff I remember.

[43:35] Andrew DeWolf: There's not not this, though.

[43:37] Jesse McAnally: This is this is gone.

[43:39] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I think it's just a deeply kind of uninteresting.

[43:43] Jesse McAnally: They clearly wanted to just cash in on the Wizard of Oz, the original and get the fans of that back in.

[43:48] Andrew DeWolf: And they did not have much to add.

[43:49] Jesse McAnally: The only things that are like new that are even remotely interesting is the two new characters, Pumpkinhead and the horse.

[43:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[43:59] Jesse McAnally: Outside of that, though, it's like it's just fucking it's reheated leftovers with kind of shitty, shitty animation.

[44:04] Andrew DeWolf: And then animation, though, then the same elephant sound effect over and over again.

[44:12] Jesse McAnally: I'm going to give it a mild cheddar cut into like a little cheese slice that mice like because, you know, the mice are like a big part of this.

[44:22] Andrew DeWolf: So they're not mild.

[44:23] Jesse McAnally: Mild cheddar is so bland. Like if you're not getting sharp cheddar, like, I'm sorry, I don't know what you're doing.

[44:29] Andrew DeWolf: I'm giving it elephant cheese that it makes sense.

[44:32] Jesse McAnally: Is it green?

[44:33] Andrew DeWolf: It can be green if you leave it out long enough.

[44:39] Jesse McAnally: Well, I think we know what it's getting then.

[44:43] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you all for listening.

[44:44] Jesse McAnally: And next week, we've got another Oz property and we have actually very exciting, maybe a little too predictable, but a Wizard of Oz guest for our finale of this month.

[44:56] Andrew DeWolf: I'm actually very excited for so tune in as we go through the rest of our Wizard of Oz sequel month and we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.

[45:06] Jesse McAnally: Bye.

[45:06] Jesse McAnally: The Musicals with Cheese podcast is hosted by Jesse McAnally and Andrew DeWolf. Our executive producer is Jesse McAnally and our creative producer is Elizabeth Esten. This show is mixed and edited by Jesse McAnally. Our theme song was composed by Andrew DeWolf and the artwork was designed by JRL Studios. Our keeper of the cheese is the one and only Juliet Antonio. If you have the funds available, we would love to have you over at Patreon where you can get tons of fun perks, including full bonus episodes. Also, if you don't mind, could you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify? Just a few extra words to let us know how we're doing. And if you have any corrections, ideas, or just want to say hello, send us an email at musicaltheaterlives at gmail.com. To listen to our entire backlog of episodes, please visit bpn.fm slash cheese. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week.