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[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Dear damn baby, if you ever want to know the story of how we bought your damn cheese, I will tell you. Your cheese was bought with the money that was supposed to buy me a new life. Every time I feed you that damn cheese, I'm gonna think, damn baby, damn cheese, be stuck like a pin in this damn life.

[0:17] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:19] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:21] Liz Esten: And I'm Liz Esten.

[0:23] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to The Cheese Wheel, a hyper-fixation podcast where our topics are gambled. And today was the first time Liz Esten's choice was picked, and it was the incredible film by Adrienne Shelley, Waitress.

[1:13] Jesse McAnally: So Waitress is a film written and directed by Adrienne Shelley, that premiered at the 2007 Sundance Film Festival and received a limited theatrical release in the United States on May 2nd, 2007 by Fox Searchlight Pictures, which would never happen again because Fox Searchlight is now owned by Disney. Isn't that such a shame that we don't have independent films anymore?

[1:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but now Jen is a Disney princess.

[1:51] Jesse McAnally: That does suck. Didn't Searchlight do like a bunch of good movies?

[1:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And now they don't do anything. Remember Jojo Rabbit?

[1:56] Liz Esten: Great movie.

[1:57] Andrew DeWolf: Was that Searchlight? Was that really Searchlight?

[2:00] Jesse McAnally: That was Searchlight. It was like right after Disney bought it.

[2:03] Andrew DeWolf: What, 28 Days Later was Searchlight? I remember that one.

[2:06] Liz Esten: There's a bunch. I'm pretty sure Slumdog Millionaire was Searchlight.

[2:09] Andrew DeWolf: There's a lot of good things that we just don't get.

[2:12] Liz Esten: Slumdog might have been the Weinstein Company.

[2:14] Andrew DeWolf: Sorry. Sorry, that's kind of a, sorry, that's a slur.

[2:17] Liz Esten: Poor taste. I'm so sorry. I should have censored myself.

[2:20] Jesse McAnally: But Shelley's supporting role in her final film appearance before her death. In 2015, Waitress was adapted into a Tony-nominated musical of the same name that we talked about on our previous podcast with wonderful person Grace Aki. The film received mostly positive reviews with an 89% fresh rating amongst 174 critic reviews, tracked by Rotten Tomatoes with an average rating of 7.3 out of 10. The plot of Waitress is Jenna is pregnant, unhappily married, waitress in the deep south. She meets a newcomer to her town and falls into an unlikely relationship as a last attempt at happiness. So, Liz, this was your choice. Why did you pick Waitress? Why is this on the wheel?

[3:07] Liz Esten: I have been, I love Waitress. I have loved Waitress since about 2014. It's been on my radar for that long. I don't remember how, but at the time, I had just finished this cringe Firefly. This is where Joss Whedon got us was being a dick. So anyway, so I, people like Firefly, I thought, is that not a thing anymore?

[3:35] Andrew DeWolf: Firefly's fine.

[3:36] Liz Esten: But anyway, so I found this movie, I think, because I saw Nathan Fillion was in it and I was curious. I'm like, okay, sure. And I found it on a very piratey website, Yoho and a bottle of rum and all that.

[3:47] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy.

[3:48] Liz Esten: Yeah. This was 2014, 2013. And I watched it and I loved it immediately. And then I, about a year later I was in Boston for a summer program at BU and I was at a shitty pop culture store and I found a $5 copy of Waitress on DVD and I bought it immediately. And then I watched it many times on that DVD since, and that's, uh, there's a lot more to it, but I can kind of get into it later. Cause it kind of gets into like personal life more. So I'd like to hear your guys thoughts on everything.

[4:28] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Andrew, you thought this was a comedy where Earl was the hero. Am I wrong?

[4:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, absolutely. Earl is the greatest guy ever. No, no, obviously not. Um, I did think it was, it was a good movie though. Honestly, I was not sure what to expect. Um, obviously I came knowing the musical before I knew the movie. Um, so I don't think I was expecting it to be as kind of, I don't know, to me it felt kind of heightened reality almost where everything's a little exaggerated, but in a good way. Um, there's a lot of like things going on with colors and framing shots of making pies that I liked.

[5:13] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and I really liked the ending. Um, I'm into it. I don't know. We can move on from me though.

[5:21] Liz Esten: Um, Waitress made me so emotional for a time that doesn't exist anymore in film when just one brilliant creative artist is given the opportunity to make something really personal, really effective, really funny and knock it out the park and it'd have a chance to find an audience. And I'm not sure something like Waitress would even get made today.

[5:51] Liz Esten: Um, I wonder what its history would have been if Sarah Burrell's musical didn't exist. Would it just be a nice little curio of the early two thousands or would it be something more? Um, I really enjoy watching it. I love watching it. It is truly a kind of film you don't see anymore. And I miss it dearly, truly.

[6:11] Andrew DeWolf: Um, that being said, I, I, there's some things I'm like, I'm curious as to what those things are.

[6:19] Liz Esten: I already know what those things are. Cause he texted me while I was working and I was like, of course he did. I'm like, Jess, you're telling me this. And I literally told you this is my all time favorite movies and I've seen it 80,000 times and it literally changed my life. Basically saying, you're telling me all the things you hate about it in the middle of my work shift.

[6:36] Andrew DeWolf: You have to start texting me because I text him when I'm watching things. So you need to text, you need to text me and then you can have a full triangle just have a group chat and we could save the round Robin.

[6:46] Liz Esten: There's no round Robin. We're not, we're not communicating these ideas.

[6:49] Andrew DeWolf: No, no. If you have to, if we just share our opinions, it becomes like New York where we spoiled all of our Popeye thoughts before we recorded the Popeye episode.

[7:03] Liz Esten: Yeah. And then we make a great episode anyways. We just were so flabbergasted by it. We had to talk about it.

[7:09] Andrew DeWolf: But do you remember Miranda sitting at dinner with us? She's like, stop talking about Popeye. You're going to ruin it.

[7:13] Liz Esten: It was so good to talk about Popeye now back to my nitpicks about Waitress.

[7:24] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I think the casting is a little wrong. I think the casting is distracting.

[7:29] Liz Esten: Okay. Okay. Which, which casting? Cause I feel like, like, like Earl does a good job.

[7:33] Andrew DeWolf: No, he's fine. He's excellently hateable. You despise that man. That's what Jeremy Sisto did in the 2000s. That's just his bread and butter at the time. I don't know any actors names, but I feel like the lead was good.

[7:46] Liz Esten: Uh, I see that's one.

[7:47] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, but the main one that almost breaks the movie for me is Nathan Fillion as Pometer. Cause I see Nathan Fillion and it just screams dirt bag. Like maybe it's just the type cast. He does not read to me as the nice, easy, comfortable choice. He reads to me as the dangerous type, like someone to be weary of, which he kind of is, but he really.

[8:16] Liz Esten: Okay. So I watched the Adrienne Shelley documentary and in that they showed an off-Broadway reading version of Waitress, like a cast list.

[8:29] Andrew DeWolf: No, that was the street movie. That was a reading for the script in 2005. Not of the Broadway show.

[8:35] Liz Esten: Yeah. Yeah. Not the Broadway show. Sorry. It was done off Broadway in New York, but it was just a reading of the script. And Paul Rudd was the Pometer in that one. And Michael Cerveris was Earl. And I'm just like, Ooh, Ooh, that that's, that's the right person. That is the right kind of nice guy, comfortable feeling. Or if we're thinking of other actors from the time, maybe like a Mark Ruffalo, someone that feels like comfortable and folksy where Nathan Fillion feels a little too much like a Mark Ruffalo just always screams uncomfortable to me.

[9:05] Andrew DeWolf: Like he's uncomfortable at all times. And I don't know if that's what we're going to be thinking of 13 going on 30, where he is just like, you know, the epitome of nice, safe guy.

[9:15] Liz Esten: Also, I feel like you're implanting musical Pometer onto movie Pometer because musical Pometer is a little cinnamon roll boy who you don't want to get hurt. Movie Pometer is kind of a nice dude, but at the end, she's not going to be with him. So he's just kind of a guy who's a little bit nicer than the husband who beats her. Like, he's not a good choice. Still, her choice is her daughter. Her choice is her friends. Her choice would be old Joe if he didn't fucking die. Spoiler alert.

[9:51] Andrew DeWolf: Well, we don't know that probably.

[9:52] Liz Esten: He's a bad choice. That's the point. Like, she only kisses him. She's like, he's like, you're kind of pretty and I like your pies like, okay, I mean, emotionally, he's the ending. So I love the ending dearly. It makes me cry every time we get to that later. It's incredible.

[10:12] Andrew DeWolf: I also find and this is not going to be the just leads this show, but I do kind of want to get these out the way because we are just going to praise the film for the rest of this. I think Harry Russell is a little too pretty for the lead role. I think she's a little too movie star gorgeous, like, you know, way that no one else is. Everyone else feels like a real human being. And Kerry Russell, if she walked into any room, every eye would be on her. She's like, you know.

[10:35] Liz Esten: So I disagree in that. I don't think this is meant to feel like real life. Like, to me, everything feels like larger than life. So it's like, okay, that your lead actress is like a superstar looking and everyone else is like schlubby.

[10:50] Andrew DeWolf: Everyone looks like real people, except for like Cheryl Hines as the speaking, which can you tell me who Cheryl Hines' husband is, Andrew?

[11:07] Andrew DeWolf: Cheryl Hines. She doesn't even know who you're talking about. Liz, do you know who it is?

[11:12] Liz Esten: I don't know who Cheryl Hines' husband is. I'm Googling.

[11:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God. Don't spoil it. Don't spoil it. It better not be Tim Allen.

[11:23] Liz Esten: You could not have guessed that a million. So Cheryl Hines plays the elder waitress in this.

[11:29] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, God. Did you Google it, Andrew?

[11:31] Andrew DeWolf: I Googled it. I'm sorry. Cheryl Hines is married to Robert Kennedy, Jr.

[11:35] Liz Esten: Woman in a van in front of me hit a bear and killed it. A young bear. So I pulled over and I picked up the bear and put him in the back of my van. I had an old bike in my car that somebody asked me to get rid of. I said, let's go put the bear in the Central Park and we'll make it look like he had his bike in the back. You know, does she have the worms, do you think?

[11:57] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, does she get the she gives brain worms?

[12:00] Liz Esten: So, okay, word on the street is that Robert F. Kennedy won't endorse Trump because of Cheryl Hines.

[12:06] Andrew DeWolf: Really? I've heard that he's going to, though. I heard recently like today here that that's what he wants to do, but his wife won't let him.

[12:12] Liz Esten: I really hope so, because I hope I have this real thing, because that is I mean, Robert F. Kennedy is such a fucking jackass. He runs as a Democrat and then immediately is like, I'm running independent and also I'm going to endorse Donald Trump. Also, I have brain worms.

[12:35] Andrew DeWolf: I am Brain Worms and I killed a bear.

[12:38] Andrew DeWolf: Killed a bear and left him in Central Park.

[12:40] Andrew DeWolf: He didn't kill the bear, he found a dead bear and then he left it in his car.

[12:44] Andrew DeWolf: Not to mention he told his story to Roseanne Barr, of all people.

[12:49] Andrew DeWolf: When Roseanne's looking at you like, bro, what the fuck?

[12:52] Andrew DeWolf: Why is there a direct connection from Robert F. Kennedy to fucking Waitress? God damn it.

[12:58] Andrew DeWolf: Adrian Shelley, I'm so sorry that this happened.

[13:01] Jess McAnally: We should talk about the praises for this film. I got my two dumb nitpicks out the way. It's a harrowing, beautiful tale about abuse and finding yourself. And honestly, this was the watch that made me really understand the ending in a way I didn't previously, where I was very kind of one dimensionally like, oh, having a baby saved your life. And I'm like, no, you fucking, that's not what the ending means. I don't think that's what they were going for. It is not. It is. I now love something more than myself and I find value in my existence enough to stand up to things.

[13:39] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's not that either. It's rich old man saved my life.

[13:45] Jess McAnally: She did all that before she knew she was rich. I'm kidding.

[13:52] Andrew DeWolf: Rich old man did save her life.

[13:54] Jess McAnally: What is the plot of Waitress?

[13:58] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so Jen is a waitress in this little small southern town that really isn't named, though, who gives a shit. She's a waitress at a pie shop called Joe's Pie Shop with her friend Dawn and fuck, what's her name? Robert F. Kennedy's wife.

[14:14] Andrew DeWolf: Robert F. Kennedy's wife. God damn, this is one of my all time favorite movies and I'm blanking on Cheryl Hines because I just called her Cheryl Hines the whole time.

[14:25] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Becky, her name's Becky. Fuck. Dawn and Becky and she's married to Earl, who sucks, and one night she gets drunk and she has sex with her evil husband and then she immediately gets pregnant.

[14:40] Andrew DeWolf: That happens before the movie starts.

[14:41] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it happens before the movie starts. The first scene is her taking a pregnancy test.

[14:45] Andrew DeWolf: We never actually, we never see that happen. We just know that it does because obviously it did.

[14:52] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Also, it rings one of the best lines of the movie is, uh, I do stupid things and I drink, like sleep with my husband.

[15:01] Andrew DeWolf: Which at first sounds mean, but then you meet the husband.

[15:04] Andrew DeWolf: Then you meet Earl and you're like, fuck, he sucks.

[15:09] Jess McAnally: Oh, Earl. And basically the movie is just kind of her trying to find love for her baby and try to escape Earl. And she ends up sleeping with her gynecologist, who's also married. And there's also a subplot where Dawn is dating this weird guy whose name is Oklahoma.

[15:27] Andrew DeWolf: Ogie.

[15:28] Jess McAnally: Ogie. I love little Ogie. He's a precious little baby.

[15:31] Andrew DeWolf: And also Cheryl Hines is sleeping with the guy who owns the diner.

[15:36] Jess McAnally: But yeah, it's basically kind of like a slice of life, little indie movie about just some women living their lives.

[15:41] Andrew DeWolf: She's sleeping with the guy who runs the diner. The guy who owns the diner is Joe, who is played by Andy Griffith.

[15:47] Jess McAnally: Um, yeah, 10 out of 10. Great explanation. Um, it doesn't sound that interesting if you break down the pieces, but like all the individualized scenes are such great character pieces. And I feel like we don't have character based media anymore. We have very big idea based media, premise based media, and intellectual property based media, for lack of a better word.

[16:14] Andrew DeWolf: IP media.

[16:15] Jess McAnally: IP media.

[16:16] Andrew DeWolf: This became IP media.

[16:20] Jess McAnally: The waitress multiverse, the waitress, I need you to distract Kang.

[16:26] Andrew DeWolf: I pick him up high.

[16:27] Jess McAnally: I need you to distract Kang. I don't wanna.

[16:32] Andrew DeWolf: Hey Kang, you're not gonna love that baby more than me, right?

[16:36] Jess McAnally: You wanna marry me, Kang? I'll take care of you.

[16:39] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god, can we talk about Earl quick?

[16:41] Jess McAnally: Yes.

[16:41] Andrew DeWolf: You know, can we just get to Earl?

[16:44] Jess McAnally: I, okay, I like Earl, but not, like, I don't like Earl. Like, I hate Earl. Like, he's the fucking worst, like, ever. But it's incredible to see someone just this fucking evil just in a movie. It's just, wow. He's just going for it, you know? He's fucking horrible. I don't know.

[17:08] Andrew DeWolf: He's bad. He's really bad.

[17:10] Jess McAnally: He's really bad, but it's like, he's bad in a way that they somehow made it, like, enjoyable to watch. Like, you didn't want him to succeed ever, obviously. But you're like, you're like, you don't want to not see him? I don't know. Like, you don't hate him in that way? At least I didn't. I don't know.

[17:25] Andrew DeWolf: You love to hate him, I think is what you mean.

[17:27] Jess McAnally: Yeah, you love to hate him. Maybe that's all I'm trying to say.

[17:30] Andrew DeWolf: He's also kind of endearing because he's an actual dumbass. Because, like, she's pregnant for, like, over five months, and all he can say is, Janna, you're getting kind of fat, and your boobs are getting bigger. That's weird. And then just walks away. And then he doesn't want it until, like, six months in.

[17:45] Jess McAnally: Yeah, he has no interest in her whatsoever, other than just, like, she is my property, and I can sleep with her.

[17:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but she doesn't let me sleep with her.

[17:54] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Although, you know, he has his moments where he doesn't let that stop him.

[18:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that scene is one of the most harrowing things I've ever seen.

[18:06] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[18:07] Jess McAnally: That scene is where you no longer even want to watch him. That was the one time where I'm like, holy fuck, get this guy off the screen.

[18:15] Andrew DeWolf: And that's a scene that sets it apart from the musical, because there's not really a moment like that in the musical. And you couldn't have a moment that intimate on a stage as effectively as you can on a film.

[18:28] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[18:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but Earl is just the fucking worst. And wow, they do a great job making you fucking hate him.

[18:38] Jess McAnally: And it is so satisfying when she finally drops his ass.

[18:42] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it's so good.

[18:43] Jess McAnally: I hate, Liz, I think, like, this is a very matriotic kind of movie. Like, it's very much about women supporting women in a way that feels honest and real.

[18:56] Andrew DeWolf: And there are moments where they don't get along, and it doesn't feel like a second act breakup. And I think that's really impressive. I really want you to talk about, like, how you connect with this as, you know, as someone that is a matriarch and has, like, inter-female relationships. And Andrew's laughing at the tokenism there.

[19:15] Liz Esten: Yeah, you're doing a thing, but I'll let you cook, okay?

[19:18] Jess McAnally: Why don't you eat my ass, my friend?

[19:20] Liz Esten: I can't wait for the comments on Apple Podcasts where they complain that I'm a woman, and I'm on a podcast, and I shouldn't be here.

[19:24] Jess McAnally: How dare a woman have an opinion?

[19:26] Liz Esten: How dare a woman speak on a podcast with her experiences as a woman?

[19:33] Andrew DeWolf: Women on podcasts are supposed to just get negged by the host. That's what they're there for.

[19:37] Jess McAnally: Yeah, you would like this move.

[19:39] Liz Esten: Oh my god, don't.

[19:42] Liz Esten: Imagine me leaving this episode, and it's just two dudes talking about waitress for the next, like, 40 minutes. I wonder what it's like to be a gynecologist.

[19:51] Andrew DeWolf: Bro, we'll get vaginas all day. Best job ever.

[19:53] Jess McAnally: That's the most awesome to be a gynecologist.

[19:57] Andrew DeWolf: Bro.

[19:57] Liz Esten: Oh my god, that's fucking creepy. Anyone who says that is a creep.

[20:01] Jess McAnally: I'll go back to the actual question that Jess asked me.

[20:08] Liz Esten: Thank you. Yes, we'll get back to that.

[20:11] Liz Esten: This honestly feels... I watched this when I was a teenager, so it's kind of weird that I connected with these older women in their 30s just being friends. But in terms of movies that feature women as main characters, it feels the most authentic female friendships you can actually see on screen. Like, I really like the Waitress musical, but I don't... My main little tiny gripe is they fight sometimes, but they're just so sweet and each other the whole time, which is great for a Broadway show, but it doesn't feel real.

[20:40] Liz Esten: This one, like, there's, like, pointed comments, but it doesn't feel too mean. And there's also moments, like, there's the bathroom scene before the five minute date, where, like, Becky's being kind of mean about it, like, oh, you're not gonna mean anyone, Dawn, like, blah, blah, blah. And it feels mean, but they're still friends the next day, who cares? But then Jenna is... She says to the mirror, like, you almost made me look pretty, which honestly makes me cry every time. And Jenna's like, no, Dawn, you're always pretty. Like, don't fucking say that. Don't be mean to yourself. Fuck that.

[21:16] Andrew DeWolf: And it's generally one of the sweetest tiny moments in the whole thing.

[21:21] Liz Esten: Also, Adrian Shelley not being with us anymore makes me cry more about it. So, like, God, this movie makes me cry. But all the friendships feel real to me, and they feel like something I could actually experience in life, and they feel like my own friendships with people I know. Like, my best friend's non-binary, so it doesn't apply directly, but many non-male friendships I have feel like a waitress-like friendship. Like, we bicker a little bit, but at the end of the day, we love each other. We still send each other shit on Instagram in the middle of the night because we can't.

[21:54] Liz Esten: It feels like a real friendship that came from a real place, and it feels... It just... You connect with it so quickly, even from the beginning where she's taking the pregnancy test. Like, that's a really hard moment for Jenna. She doesn't want this baby, and she just had a slip-up moment where Earl manipulated her into a position she didn't want to be in, but they're just supportive of her, but also joking with her in a way that doesn't feel antagonistic.

[22:16] Liz Esten: Until that moment where it does, and there's that really unpleasant moment where Dawn is like, just because you have the worst husband in the world, you'll never be happy. You don't want me to be happy. Like, that moment is like... That feels real. That feels so real, but the fact they still forgive each other at the end of the day also feels so real. It's like, I got in the heat of the moment. I'm so sorry. I think even guys can connect with that, too. I got in the heat of the moment. I'm so sorry, and she's like, no, we're still friends. I still love you dearly. I understand. I don't say it again, but I don't take it too hard.

[23:05] Andrew DeWolf: I feel really bad for Dawn.

[23:06] Liz Esten: Wait, you feel bad for Dawn?

[23:13] Liz Esten: I do. I think Ogie sucks. I'm sorry.

[23:20] Andrew DeWolf: He loves her so much that he wrote a poetry. Not to use a recent reference, but they match each other's freaks.

[23:25] Liz Esten: They do match each other's freaks, Liz.

[23:30] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe. To me, it felt like he didn't love her. He was obsessed with her, and that's not the same thing, and it's not going to end well. He put that pussy on a pedestal.

[23:38] Liz Esten: It doesn't feel healthy at the beginning. I'll give you that.

[23:43] Andrew DeWolf: He comes in, and he's acting creepy, and he's saying he's never going to give up, which is kind of stalkery, and then he kind of does stalker and like, I don't know.

[23:54] Liz Esten: Is this really the guy?

[24:01] Andrew DeWolf: Have you considered that he's a sexual dynamo?

[24:07] Liz Esten: I didn't consider that aspect, but honestly, I guess I don't know if that aspect should be considered.

[24:11] Andrew DeWolf: You probably shouldn't be sleeping with your stalker.

[24:18] Liz Esten: Yes, I'm sleeping with your stalker.

[24:22] Andrew DeWolf: Don't tell me how to live, Liz.

[24:28] Liz Esten: I'm sorry. Are we supposed to take the Oki-Dawn situation and be like they're right for each other and be happy about it?

[24:34] Andrew DeWolf: I think they're really cute, and he respects her, and she respects him and all that.

[24:40] Liz Esten: He doesn't respect her enough to go away when she says go away.

[24:47] Andrew DeWolf: That is a solid point, and I'm glad the musical kind of scraps that.

[24:51] Liz Esten: Well, they turn it into a song.

[24:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they turn it into a song, and she eventually succumbs.

[24:58] Liz Esten: Which, okay. It's a little bit, it's a little bit like, I don't know.

[25:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Guys aren't, you're not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to just chase them after they sell you a stop. You know, that's, that's fucking creepy. That's, that's a creepy thing to do.

[25:11] Liz Esten: That's good advice. Even if you, even if you are really good at writing haikus.

[25:15] Andrew DeWolf: Spontaneous poems.

[25:17] Liz Esten: I got one coming, guys.

[25:18] Andrew DeWolf: God damn it. I got one coming, guys. Is it for Andrew and how you're in love with him?

[25:10] Jess McAnally: Love with him? I-I-I do! Um, um...

[25:16] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew, you're the one I choose!

[25:19] Jess McAnally: Da-dum, da-dum, da-dum, it's time for BREVIEWS!

[25:23] Liz Esten: Dear God!

[25:25] Jess McAnally: It's time for BREVIEWS!

[25:29] Jess McAnally: It's time for BREVIEWS!

[25:32] Jess McAnally: Alright! You better play the song! You didn't play BREVIEWS' song in the first episode, you fucker!

[25:37] Andrew DeWolf: I-I didn't-I didn't have it on my computer yet.

[25:40] Jess McAnally: GASP

[25:41] Andrew DeWolf: I-I blew it.

[25:42] Jess McAnally: You blew it! You've ruined every-it might as well be Wild Facts at this point, which you never played the sound effect for. Um...

[25:49] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't have that one either.

[25:50] Jess McAnally: Yeah, when I edited that Jail episode, I texted Jess like twice, like, where's the BREVIEWS noise? Where the B-where's the BREVIEWS noise? I need to put it in!

[26:03] Jess McAnally: In case this is your third or fourth episode of The Cheese Wheel, BREVIEWS is a segment where we compare our opinions to those of the real theater critics over on Letterboxd.com, where we...

[26:10] Jess McAnally: I'm gonna read real Letterboxd reviews to Andrew and Liz, and they have to go head-to-head guessing whether or not they're a one-star or five-star based on nothing but the review alone.

[26:19] Jess McAnally: Andrew, are you ready?

[26:21] Andrew DeWolf: Of course I'm ready. It's BREVIEWS. I've been doing this for like 150 episodes now.

[26:26] Jess McAnally: Oh, more than that.

[26:29] Andrew DeWolf: I think 150 is about right for when we started doing BREVIEWS, to be honest.

[26:34] Jess McAnally: Oh, that's- that's about- about...

[26:36] Jess McAnally: Um, all right. Hot doctor, beautiful lead, I'm glad they didn't end up together, and she kept the daughter.

[26:44] Andrew DeWolf: Interesting.

[26:45] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I'm just gonna give my own opinion and just say- just say five.

[26:51] Jess McAnally: That is a one-star, Andrew. You're a failure.

[26:53] Andrew DeWolf: Are they being sarcastic? Are they like, I wish she got an abortion and- and then married the doctor? Like-

[27:01] Jess McAnally: Yeah, marry your gynecologist.

[27:03] Jess McAnally: Um, all right, Liz, you're up.

[27:05] Liz Esten: Yeah, I am ready, but also I opened my own review of it, so you can't use quotes from it, because I don't even know what it is.

[27:09] Liz Esten: Waitress is an excellent and very small movie carried by the incredible performances of the entire cast. Waitress is an excellent character study of how to find your own happiness.

[27:18] Jess McAnally: Can you stop reading my writings from like 2015?

[27:22] Andrew DeWolf: You think I wasn't gonna have that ready? You think I was just gonna not have that at the ready? You should have- you should have made me guess it, though. It's on my top four of my letterboxd account, so.

[27:31] Jess McAnally: I know Liz well enough. If I had started reading it, Andrew, she would have interrupted.

[27:35] Liz Esten: Yes.

[27:36] Jess McAnally: Be like, that's mine!

[27:37] Jess McAnally: So, that was a one-star, right?

[27:40] Liz Esten: Yeah, that was a one.

[27:40] Liz Esten: Yeah, one. I hate this movie.

[27:44] Jess McAnally: Well, that's wrong, Liz. Um, all right, Andrew, we're at zero-zero.

[27:47] Liz Esten: That was a joke answer!

[27:49] Jess McAnally: How was I supposed to know? We're at zero-zero. Andrew.

[27:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah?

[27:54] Andrew DeWolf: I want to be a baker.

[27:56] Jess McAnally: Pfft.

[27:57] Jess McAnally: You want to be a bake- baker?

[28:00] Andrew DeWolf: Baker. Baker. B-A-K-E-R.

[28:02] Jess McAnally: I thought you said beggar. Like, what does that have to do with-

[28:04] Andrew DeWolf: I want to be a beggar.

[28:07] Jess McAnally: Bakers do make pies, I think.

[28:11] Andrew DeWolf: It depends.

[28:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I- well, we're gonna say- we're gonna say five for that one. That's a five.

[28:18] Jess McAnally: That is correct, and Andrew, you're on the board. Liz, you can- you can tie- tie it now.

[28:22] Liz Esten: Yay!

[28:23] Andrew DeWolf: I'm the waitress champion.

[28:24] Jess McAnally: Pfft.

[28:26] Jess McAnally: I mean, it is your favorite movie, and you are the number one waitress fan, Andrew.

[28:29] Andrew DeWolf: It's true. No one likes waitress more than me.

[28:32] Jess McAnally: Especially not on this podcast. All right, Liz.

[28:35] Liz Esten: Yes?

[28:37] Jess McAnally: A single mom who works two jobs, which is not the actual lyric from the song, because the actual lyric is, a single mom who works too hard.

[28:45] Liz Esten: Isn't- isn't- isn't the Reba theme song, is it, two jobs?

[28:49] Andrew DeWolf: It's- no, in the theme song, it is too hard.

[28:51] Liz Esten: Oh, that's mean-

[28:52] Andrew DeWolf: People just hear two jobs.

[28:54] Jess McAnally: Oh, that's the Mandela shit, okay.

[28:56] Liz Esten: Yes!

[28:56] Jess McAnally: Uh, five.

[28:58] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct!

[28:59] Liz Esten: Yes!

[28:59] Jess McAnally: All right, we are tied. Um, Andrew!

[29:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah?

[29:04] Andrew DeWolf: Sucks the director got murdered, though.

[29:06] Jess McAnally: Oh, fuck you.

[29:08] Andrew DeWolf: I assume we're talking about that in the second half.

[29:11] Jess McAnally: Yeah, we'll get to it.

[29:13] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, true, but we're still gonna give it five. I think they still like the movie.

[29:18] Jess McAnally: That's a one.

[29:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh!

[29:20] Andrew DeWolf: They're- they're-

[29:21] Jess McAnally: They're like, dang, sucks the director died, but their movie sucks.

[29:27] Andrew DeWolf: Uh.

[29:29] Andrew DeWolf: Uh.

[29:30] Jess McAnally: That sounds like some Roger Ebert shit.

[29:32] Andrew DeWolf: It does.

[29:34] Jess McAnally: Boo-hoo, you're dead. Thumbs down.

[29:38] Andrew DeWolf: Andy Ostroi is just having a conniption.

[29:41] Jess McAnally: I'm so sorry to do this.

[29:43] Andrew DeWolf: Did we all see the Francis Ford Coppola mega-apocalypse trailer debacle?

[29:49] Liz Esten: Oh, but the fake- fake bad reviews?

[29:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he did this trailer where he took, like, all of his classic movies, The Godfather and Apocalypse Now, and it's like, oh, they're negative reviews because, you know, mega-apocalypse have been getting dog shit reviews. They're like, all brilliant films, like, are eventually seen as genius later.

[30:07] Jess McAnally: Okay.

[30:08] Andrew DeWolf: But then it turns out every one of those reviews were made up.

[30:11] Jess McAnally: But attributed to real human beings.

[30:15] Andrew DeWolf: No, I feel like some intern was, like, told, hey, find negative reviews, and he used ChatGPT.

[30:23] Jess McAnally: I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

[30:25] Andrew DeWolf: Like, that is-

[30:25] Jess McAnally: You're probably fucking right.

[30:27] Andrew DeWolf: That's probably so right.

[30:29] Jess McAnally: Like, that's, like, where they're, like-

[30:32] Andrew DeWolf: Because, like, one of the reviews for Roger Ebert was from his Batman review. Like, that was where his quote was from.

[30:35] Jess McAnally: So I'm like, okay, that seems like ChatGPT brain.

[30:39] Andrew DeWolf: Which goes to show, do your own work, kids.

[30:42] Jess McAnally: True.

[30:43] Andrew DeWolf: Megalocalypse.

[30:45] Jess McAnally: Apocalypse.

[30:45] Andrew DeWolf: What the fuck is that called?

[30:46] Jess McAnally: Megalopolis?

[30:48] Andrew DeWolf: Megalopolis?

[30:50] Jess McAnally: Lollapalooza.

[30:51] Andrew DeWolf: Lollapalooza.

[30:53] Jess McAnally: Yeah, that movie doesn't look very good.

[30:54] Andrew DeWolf: It looks bad.

[30:55] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know, it looks kind of, it looks incohesive.

[30:57] Jess McAnally: Jess, please don't make me watch it.

[30:58] Andrew DeWolf: Just from the trailer.

[30:59] Jess McAnally: It looks interesting.

[31:01] Andrew DeWolf: Jess, I'm not going to a theater to see Megalopolis.

[31:03] Jess McAnally: I'm, I'll see it.

[31:05] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[31:07] Jess McAnally: You'll see it.

[31:08] Andrew DeWolf: You'll see it.

[31:09] Jess McAnally: Megalopolis.

[31:10] Andrew DeWolf: Megalopolis.

[31:11] Jess McAnally: Feminomenon.

[31:12] Andrew DeWolf: The Feminomenon.

[31:14] Jess McAnally: That's a Megalopolis.

[31:15] Andrew DeWolf: We should have our own, right?

[31:17] Jess McAnally: It's the theme.

[31:19] Andrew DeWolf: God.

[31:19] Andrew DeWolf: Aubrey, Aubrey Plauseson.

[31:21] Jess McAnally: There's a lot of people I like in that movie.

[31:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but Chloe, I like Chloe Fineman too, but I'm not, I'm not watching it.

[31:29] Jess McAnally: Do you guys know the, the bit where at one point Adam Driver's character talks to a physical human being in the room?

[31:33] Andrew DeWolf: And like, that is a scene in the movie where someone has to go up to a microphone and talk to the movie.

[31:39] Liz Esten: What?

[31:42] Jess McAnally: Anyway, previews?

[31:44] Jess McAnally: All right, whose turn is it?

[31:45] Andrew DeWolf: It was my turn.

[31:46] Jess McAnally: I think it's Liz's turn.

[31:47] Liz Esten: Yes.

[31:49] Liz Esten: Napoleon Dynamite for girls.

[31:51] Andrew DeWolf: I've seen Napoleon Dynamite and I don't fully get it.

[31:54] Liz Esten: So yeah, it's probably right.

[31:55] Liz Esten: Um, one.

[31:58] Jess McAnally: That was a five, Liz.

[31:59] Liz Esten: Damn.

[32:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah?

[32:02] Andrew DeWolf: All of this could have been avoided with an abortion.

[32:07] Jess McAnally: See, that's literally not true. I feel like that's really not the point.

[32:12] Andrew DeWolf: You didn't watch the movie, but that's okay.

[32:15] Jess McAnally: We're going to give you a five star.

[32:17] Andrew DeWolf: You still, you still loved it.

[32:18] Jess McAnally: That was a one.

[32:19] Andrew DeWolf: We're still tied, guys.

[32:21] Liz Esten: Yes.

[32:22] Jess McAnally: Wait, why aren't they singing?

[32:27] Liz Esten: Those are the Broadway shows for you, fuckers.

[32:29] Jess McAnally: Why aren't they singing?

[32:31] Liz Esten: Why aren't they singing a song about pie?

[32:33] Jess McAnally: They do. Okay.

[32:34] Liz Esten: They sing in this movie at least three times.

[32:36] Jess McAnally: So make a little pie with a heart in the middle.

[32:41] Liz Esten: Uh, five.

[32:43] Andrew DeWolf: That's a one.

[32:44] Liz Esten: Damn.

[32:44] Andrew DeWolf: You could win this here or you could tie it.

[32:48] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew, tie it.

[32:48] Andrew DeWolf: All right.

[32:49] Andrew DeWolf: I'm hitting the walk-off.

[32:50] Andrew DeWolf: Here we go.

[32:52] Andrew DeWolf: Pie porn at its finest.

[32:53] Jess McAnally: Aw.

[32:54] Andrew DeWolf: Pie porn at its finest.

[32:55] Andrew DeWolf: Five fucking stars.

[32:57] Jess McAnally: That is correct.

[32:58] Andrew DeWolf: Damn.

[32:59] Jess McAnally: Andrew, you won previews.

[33:02] Jess McAnally: Andrew's the king of waitress.

[33:04] Andrew DeWolf: I am the waitress king.

[33:07] Jess McAnally: Andrew's opinion of waitress is the only one that matters.

[33:10] Andrew DeWolf: I love the idea of you walking into a diner and saying, I am the waitress king. Bow to me.

[33:13] Jess McAnally: Bring me pies.

[33:15] Andrew DeWolf: Bring me all your pies with funny names.

[33:22] Jess McAnally: Where are my flapjacks?

[33:26] Andrew DeWolf: Um, speaking of flapjacks, let's flapjack into a mid-show and see what's going on there.

[33:40] Jess McAnally: Hey, guys. Sorry to interrupt your little show, but we've got a show at you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[33:46] Jess McAnally: Patreon's this lovely place where you can give us funding to keep this show going and we can do cool things. And I can bring Andrew and Liz back over here. We can make some more live streams and whatnot.

[33:54] Jess McAnally: And we have big plans over there at Patreon already. We've kind of brought them out. We had our Patreon meetup and Bigby joined us. That was a little bit of a surprise. I'm hoping I can have a little more surprise guests over there on Patreon.

[34:03] Jess McAnally: We are also doing a lot more access. You will get the full edited episodes a day before they air on your podcatchers. Also, you will get the, depending on your tier, you will get the video episodes that are available to our $5 and up patrons.

[34:31] Jess McAnally: Things are going to be changing because there has been unfortunate announcements at Patreon that you can no longer charge per creation, which is really a bummer because that is one of those things that keeps us creators, you know, advocating on our own side and making sure that we get content out to you consistently.

[34:46] Jess McAnally: And it keeps us. Thanks, Apple.

[34:47] Andrew DeWolf: Thanks, Apple.

[34:49] Jess McAnally: It keeps us making content and makes it so that we don't want to lax and like, you know, fucking miss a week because whatever, doesn't matter, which is a fucking bummer.

[34:59] Jess McAnally: So we're going to have to re-evaluate and think about that, which means things might be going up, but also you'll probably pay less in the long run per month anyways, which means we'll also give you more for that too.

[35:09] Jess McAnally: Our current patrons are Justice Stampede, Ewan Cassidy, Maka Thurow, Brent Black, Daniel Stacy Coombe, Mary Lou Choquette, Jon Van Alls, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Janacee, Scoot and the Technicolor Dreamcoat, nothing is certain except Beth and Taxes, Jon Van Alls, Thezvian, Chai Tea Cup, Chris Marcotte, Kiju Marie Anastasio, Trevi Joseph, RJ Noriega, Julia McLennan, Joe, Bjorn Herman, Soriana Fraser, Sammy, the adequate amount, Jacobson, Kaylee Blazier, Villainous Miss, TheOmegaGeek, Paige Pearson, Maddy Wargo, Lisa Erdman, Annalise Katova, Evan Ball, Zachary Therese, Mara Marasso, Mara, Lisa L, Possessed Washing Machine, Nick Roten, The Puffy Boy, Sidney Hicks, Billy Clifton, Gold Plated Kikimora, Insert hieroglyphs here.

[35:55] Andrew DeWolf: Did you see that Gold Plated Kikimora made like Minecraft versions of me and you, Andrew?

[36:00] Jess McAnally: I really appreciate that.

[36:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[36:02] Andrew DeWolf: That's fucking hilarious.

[36:03] Jess McAnally: Where's my Minecraft?

[36:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah.

[36:06] Andrew DeWolf: I just assume that...

[36:08] Jess McAnally: It's not like you can communicate with Gold Plated Kikimora.

[36:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I can't.

[36:11] Andrew DeWolf: In all fairness.

[36:11] Jess McAnally: I can't communicate this...

[36:14] Andrew DeWolf: Like, he talks in hieroglyphs.

[36:15] Jess McAnally: I'm also like a white chick with brown hair, so I'm pretty easy to like...

[36:20] Andrew DeWolf: If you just take the beard off Andrew, we got Liz.

[36:22] Jess McAnally: Yeah, honestly, Andrew's the one without a beard is me.

[36:27] Andrew DeWolf: Ari Arty, Emma Carabalda, JRL Studios, Alexandra Dom, I wonder if they...

[36:34] Jess McAnally: Nope, don't go there.

[36:35] Andrew DeWolf: BT McMemory, Menoni, Menomi, Mommy.

[36:41] Jess McAnally: They all give us money.

[36:43] Andrew DeWolf: You can give us money too.

[36:46] Jess McAnally: They give us money.

[36:48] Jess McAnally: Another thing that they get is, they get to see the show live. So they...

[36:51] Andrew DeWolf: If we fuck up, they see it.

[36:53] Jess McAnally: They see it raw.

[36:54] Andrew DeWolf: And we fuck up constantly.

[36:56] Jess McAnally: Yes, you better believe it.

[36:59] Andrew DeWolf: Do you know how many false takes I do? Because my brain don't work?

[37:01] Jess McAnally: A lot.

[37:03] Andrew DeWolf: I have to listen through the entire episode. I can't just like jump around to edit.

[37:07] Jess McAnally: Jump around.

[37:08] Andrew DeWolf: Because I have to cut everything.

[37:10] Jess McAnally: He cuts all of it.

[37:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, in fact, you're not even getting an episode right now.

[37:14] Jess McAnally: Um, currently...

[37:16] Jess McAnally: Oh! Currently, we have watching on our live stream is Gold Play to Kikimora and TV Estal. I don't know which one they are.

[37:24] Andrew DeWolf: I know Gold Play to Kikimora.

[37:24] Jess McAnally: TV Estal is Toriana.

[37:26] Andrew DeWolf: Toriana!

[37:27] Jess McAnally: I'm glad you're there, Tori.

[37:30] Jess McAnally: Yeah, we're coming up on our... Oh yeah, we also have our Patreon choices, which are coming up. And right now, they're voting on something ooky spooky scary, which is exciting. But also, in the next couple of weeks, we'll be covering Pride and Prejudice, as suggested by Toriana Frazier, which is...

[37:46] Jess McAnally: I can't wait to do it.

[37:47] Andrew DeWolf: How about we get back to the show and get talk about some sad stuff?

[37:50] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it's going to get sad.

[38:01] Jess McAnally: So, Andrew, this is something we should have probably gotten into when we covered Waitress the musical on Musicals with Cheese. So it's really sad what happened to Adrienne Shelley, and it's hard to separate this movie since she's in it. And she wrote it. She directed it. And it's just so much of her soul bled onto this film. And what happened right before this film came out is she was horrifically murdered. Like, truly one of.

[38:35] Andrew DeWolf: We're we're just going there right off.

[38:37] Jess McAnally: Yeah, yeah. Read about some of this. And wow, it is not a pleasant story. It was like a month before she got the Sundance approval. Breaks my heart. Yeah. And part of why that last shot in the ending touches me so much is when Kerry Russell's walking away out to the sunset into the night, she is holding up Adrienne Shelley's daughter, Sophie. And it really is. It's it's meant to be this uplifting thing and in the way it is, but man, it is so hauntingly depressing and so heartbreaking to watch.

[39:21] Andrew DeWolf: I can't say I recommend this documentary, but her husband was an Andy Ostroi, Andy Ostroi, director of film called Adrian, Adrian. And I think that the documentary is bad. Um, I really just wanted to hear about her and her art, and it's a lot more about, you know, him and how he reacted and him dealing with that, which is valid. But it doesn't feel like it really has much to do with her and what she wanted to do as an artist. And that wasn't great.

[39:55] Jess McAnally: Also, I don't I don't agree with that.

[39:58] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that's fine. That's fine. I think every conversation I was watching it with what you told me where you said it didn't feel like it was about her. So I was watching with that lens. Like, do I feel like that? And every conversation went back to her. She is the motivation for every talk. She gets brought up by every person who gets talked about.

[40:22] Jess McAnally: So I agree, but I feel like I just want to know about her art.

[40:26] Andrew DeWolf: It's about everything about her, just who she is. I that's why I thought I felt about it.

[40:34] Jess McAnally: I guess, but I I like the scene where he goes and visits the murderer in prison.

[40:39] Andrew DeWolf: I hate that scene.

[40:42] Jess McAnally: Like and how much time is spent dealing with his emotional baggage, which is important. I I just wanted I I guess it's more what I wanted, which is a traditional documentary where the main driving force is not her death.

[40:59] Andrew DeWolf: Which is a documentary where the driving force is that she was murdered.

[41:04] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I just don't even think the murderer deserves any fucking. This is like I'm not going to go into like true crime territory, I hope. But this is just like a cold blooded murder with no fucking motivation.

[41:15] Andrew DeWolf: I'm just robbery, I guess. Yeah.

[41:17] Jess McAnally: Yeah. No, he just wanted money. He didn't have money and she just happened to be there and fight back. So he killed he killed her. Yeah.

[41:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Not that I want to give this guy's murder any more of a platform. But like, I think the main thing to take away from how she left us is not how she left us. It's what she gave us while she was here, which is what I think Adrian does for a lot of it. But I think it suffers for in certain sections. But I think what it does or a lot of it is just talk about her.

[41:47] Jess McAnally: Well, I will say there's one I'll say one more thing about the ending just so we don't end on the sour murdery note. No. So in the documentary, it's they talk about how during that last scene, Sophie didn't want to be away from her mom at all. So she's like Adrian Shelley is like in the woods on the side for that scene. There's a little moment where they're walking on the street and you see Sophie look to the right and is about to run to the right. And then she like stops for a second and then keeps going forward. It's like, oh, that's her mom. She was going to try to run to her mom in the middle of a take, but they kept it. And I'm like, that is so fucking sweet. And then as soon as the take ended, she ran right to her mom. Like, oh, my heart. Oh.

[42:30] Andrew DeWolf: Their her legacy lives on. This film, I think, is the testament to her art, in my opinion. This is what she was really working to get on. It is her most popular work. It is her most populist work, like with the waitress becoming a musical and having a long lasting life outside of it. It is wonderful to see. I feel cheated out of so much other stuff that she would have made. And fuck that motherfucker for doing what he did. Not going to say his name. Doesn't matter what his name is. Piece of shit person.

[43:01] Jess McAnally: Now, Waitress, in and of itself, I think is like a perfect thing. I, I would like to actually compare it to the musical, since it is something all three of us have seen. And whether we like the film or musical version better. I literally saw it on Broadway with 98% of the original cast. My sister wanted to go see it with Sara Bareilles, but I refused because I needed to see it with Jesse Mueller. So do you have a preference between the movie and the stage show?

[43:29] Andrew DeWolf: I don't. Honestly, I, I, I'll go into more personal shit with my connection with it on cheese ratings. But like I, the movie hit me when it needed to. But the musical hits me differently because when I'm not in front of my computer, I can live through Waitress through the soundtrack. Like I can listen to the songs in my car if I'm in the mood. But I don't have a preference. They're basically the same thing. Except the tone's a little different, but all the dialogue is a lot of a lot of crossover, like the script hasn't changed much. He's much they changed some details like Don meets guys through personal ads in the movie because it's 2007. And in the show, she has a dating dating app thing. So like things change.

But it's I love the movie so much and I love the musical so much. It's just kind of like two kids I love dearly who are slightly different. So I don't have a preference. I know it's a cop out answer, but I don't like depends on the day. And I've watched the pro shot that just sent me a while back recently. And God also made me cry. So also, I feel like the musical is like made in a lab for me to enjoy, because like I remember my sister saw previews of this in D.C. in like 2014 and she texted me about it. I'm like, I don't like what is this Waitress you speak of? Is it my movie early like or some generic Waitress movie? And I looked it up and it's like, oh, Sara Bareilles is writing music based on one of my favorite movies. And I love Sara Bareilles so dearly at this point in my life. OK, this was made for me. Oh, my God. Like, this is perfect.

[45:08] Jess McAnally: I OK, I think the stage show is a little too gumdrop for me. It's a little too overpolished, a little too, you know, digestible for an audience for this has those rough edges. And it's a little little nastier. It kind of feels a little dirty. It feels like it feels like how the real South might be where the Waitress musical feels like a Disney vacation of the South.

[45:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, I can see how it would be difficult to adapt some of the really more difficult scenes onto the stage to I mean, we already talked about the one scene.

[46:04] Jess McAnally: Yeah, there's other scenes where you have to the you're kind of forced to be really close to fucking Earl and Jenna, like in a very uncomfortable situation.

[46:13] Andrew DeWolf: And you're kind of forced to be there with them, like just because of how the cameras framed and how it's like tight shots. I think another scene I remember really well that I think you talked about as well. Jess is the I hope the baby doesn't you don't love the baby more than me.

[46:21] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Oh, my God. Deeply, deeply uncomfortable and a real thing that actually.

[46:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Men fucking actually do, because some men are just fucking cringe.

[46:32] Jess McAnally: But, you know, I wouldn't use cringe. I'd say dog shit, but I see your I see your meaning.

[46:38] Andrew DeWolf: It's cringe to me. Yeah. I could see how it'd be more dog shit for you. But it's cringe for me because I'm just like, God damn it. Why are you like this?

[46:46] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Well, man, that that being said, like a lot of those things that come off like so uncomfortable come off as punch lines in the musical, which, yeah, it's a different format. You kind of have to play them a little broader, which does mean they kind of land more as jokes. And in my opinion, there's a difference in seeing someone have to take the bus and, you know, be trapped and just hearing about it. And I feel like that's the biggest difference between watching that movie and seeing that musical is like the isolation that Jenna feels like. It's one thing to hear about it. And when you just see her teleport between scenes, between, you know, on stage and having to take the bus and walk and do all these other things just to exist and barely skate by.

[47:34] Andrew DeWolf: Can I talk about a couple of things that I liked? Is it thematically or is it I'm not sure what the word I'm looking for is, but things that like recurred that I motivated motifs.

[47:45] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Yeah.

[47:48] Andrew DeWolf: OK. The horoscope being read multiple times. I thought that was fun. I really like is it is it Joe?

[47:57] Jess McAnally: Yeah, Joe.

[48:01] Andrew DeWolf: I like the scenes with Joe. They're they're great. And I love the horoscope readings. Want to hear your horoscope before I give you my order? No. Too bad. Here it is. Every time Earl shows up on a scene, you get the multiple horn honks to like signify that he is.

[48:18] Jess McAnally: Yes, the bad man is here.

[48:21] Andrew DeWolf: Like it's like every time, like she's sitting at the bus and he shows up and you hear beep, beep, beep, beep.

[48:30] Jess McAnally: Oh, no.

[48:35] Andrew DeWolf: She's at the wedding and he's pissed off, he's beep, beep, beep, beep. I don't know. It's that was Earl walks in. It's like, Jenna, I'm very upset with you. Get in the car, like as calmly as possible.

[48:48] Jess McAnally: Yeah, you can't maintain very calm, though. Everyone everyone knows what's about to happen.

[48:52] Andrew DeWolf: But he's just like stoic as fuck. But the one thing that frustrated me with that, though, is just like, man, none of you people are going to be like, don't go out there. Don't even Andy Griffith. Don't know. Right.

[49:06] Jess McAnally: Hey, stay. Don't go.

[49:09] Andrew DeWolf: So the movie's great.

[49:09] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I don't know. Don was like, hey, hey, hey, are you like, are you me? OK, like they basically say, please don't go.

[49:15] Andrew DeWolf: Who's going to stand up to her?

[49:17] Jess McAnally: Oh, OK.

[49:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I like the fall over if the wind was too hard.

[49:24] Jess McAnally: OK, I also like the cooking show shots of making pies that would continuously come back. I thought those were were fun. There's a lot of like little like recurring things that like aren't even like dialogue or like a theme or anything that it's just like, you know, somebody thought of this, you know, felt like something someone dearly loved and wanted to make and saw to the end. And when's the last time you've seen something like that truly ever? Like, I hate saying that, like, so definitively, like maybe the People's Joker, I haven't watched that yet, but people tell me it's great. I think there is good movies coming out. It's just hard to find them. And it sucks that like like this got released from Fox Searchlight, which we talked about earlier, is gone. So it's like there's not really a big studio that puts out this type of movie anymore. Like what is the kind of film that feels like Waitress that you've seen in the last five years?

[50:20] Andrew DeWolf: I think this movie is, frankly, too optimistic to be put out in the last five years. I think we're in a deeply pessimistic time in our culture. We need something optimistic. We need hope. Can we talk about the ending? We've teased it. I want to talk about it.

[50:36] Jess McAnally: Talk about it, Andrew. It's all you, baby.

[50:38] Andrew DeWolf: It doesn't have to be all me, but I guess I'll start if you want me to. At the end, she gives birth and dumps Earl immediately after she's holding the baby and then opens up a check from Joe, who had come in earlier, and gets a bunch of money. And then she dumps the doctor who she was having an affair with. Because she met his wife. He is also married, and he has been married the whole time. And she knew that he was married, but it's earlier not really a thing. But then eventually the wife is actually there, and she sees her. And then she goes and opens her own diner. But I feel like a lot of this is kind of fine, but the part where she dumps the doctor as well is, I think, particularly nice.

It's just like, yeah, he helped her, but also she knows that she was just desperate at that time, and that's not actually who she wants to be with or what she wants to do, like break up this family or try to, you know? I don't know. It's nice. And it gives you the right amount of falling action where they don't linger on it, they don't tell you how she wraps up her life, but they show you that she has. And of course, we talk about baby Lulu and all that, and how beautiful that ending scene is, and how much I just want to cry every time this movie is wrapping up, both for the things that happen that make me so happy within the world of the movie and the things that make me so sad in the real world.

But on that note, we're hitting that point where it's time for us to give our overall thoughts and our cheese rating. Liz, this was your spin. What is your overall thoughts and the cheese rating? What are your thoughts on that cheese rating, baby?

[52:38] Liz Esten: This waitress, I think, means way more to me than I realize. Like, I'm gonna get a little emotional here, genuinely. And I'm fine, don't worry. I found this when I was a teenager, and I loved it. And then I met a guy who became my Earl, and then I watched this again. And damn, it hit me hard. And it was just nice to watch something where, like, you can thrive post something so ugly. I only knew this guy for, like, a couple weeks, but it still hurt a lot. So, and it affects me to this day. And so, waitress, the show, the movie, kind of, like, helped me through really hard. So, sorry, guys. Sorry. It just really means a lot to me. And I just want to thank Adrian Shelley for, like, making something that made me really happy in a time where I didn't think that was possible.

And this movie just means a lot to me. She Used to Be Mine really encapsulates that feeling when you've been in this dynamic. There's, like, a version of yourself that exists, but they're gone. And you may not like them that much, but you want them back so badly, despite yourself. But, yeah. Waitress just means a lot to me. And I don't know where I'd, without it, do anything. So, sorry, guys. So, I'm going to give this recipe from the movie itself, the I Don't Want Earl's Baby Pie, the quiche with brie cheese and ham in the middle.

[54:34] Andrew DeWolf: The transition. My God. The fact that it was so sincere and then you transition to our dumb little gag.

[54:42] Jess McAnally: I know, right?

[54:43] Andrew DeWolf: Was so beautiful. Our dumb gag is deeply important. Our dumb gag is deeply where when you're being very sincere about a movie that saves you through a very tough emotional time in your life. I'm so glad that you're willing to be that emotional and that honest and earnest with us. And that's part of what this show should mean. Also, I'm sorry if I was intelligible in the mic.

[55:00] Liz Esten: It was perfectly fine.

[55:01] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Thank you, Liz. That was absolutely wonderful. And exactly what we want to do in this show is to give a platform to things that mean a lot to us. Now, Andrew, give us an equally compelling explanation of your thoughts and cheese rating. I expect tears.

[55:17] Andrew DeWolf: It was pretty good. No, I feel bad. I cannot match that, though I did like it. But I do not have that deep of a connection to it. I'm sorry. It's okay. But I did think it was pretty good. I really liked a lot of the... I wish I had the know-how to talk about stuff, but I liked how it looked visually. And I liked a lot of the stuff they did with it. And I liked the tone that it set a lot, where it was willing to get to those really horrible places, but it didn't linger there. And it definitely focused more on the hopefulness of getting out of that, more than just dwelling on how miserable it was. And I like that. I like that it was a hopeful watch and not a, man, shit sucks, huh? Isn't it bad that shit like this happens?

That sucks. Because we have so many movies that are like that. It's like, yeah, shit sucks. Whatever. Like, how do we get out of it? How do we move on? Cheese rating. I'm going to give it a ricotta cheese pie. This ricotta cheese pie is creamy and not too sweet. That's what all recipes says about ricotta cheese pie. I thought that was funny. But it's a pie made of cheese. There you go. It's obvious, but here it is.

[57:02] Jess McAnally: So wait, so the third cheese is going to be another pie full of cheese.

[57:08] Andrew DeWolf: Man, I wasn't going to do that, but now I feel like I have to.

[57:13] Liz Esten: There's a second recipe in this movie that does feature cheese, so you could do that.

[57:19] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but that's, I don't know.

[57:21] Jess McAnally: That's true. Also, Binging with Babbage did make all these, so if you want to make them, the recipe exists.

[57:26] Andrew DeWolf: Well, maybe I do want Earl's baby. Because it did kind of make her life better having Earl's baby, you know what I mean?

[57:34] Jess McAnally: I don't think that was the message.

[57:37] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think that's the message of the movie, Jess. I think the message is you need to leave him.

[57:42] Jess McAnally: Yeah, but I have this baby.

[57:45] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. I love this movie. I think I really kind of understood how effective it was for me. I really did linger. I always was one that's like, oh, the musical's better, and I don't think that's the truth. I think that the movie is more of a whole with what it's meant to be. Adrian Shelley's performance in this is so good. Joel Hines is there. I'm sorry, Robert F. Kennedy's wife is there, and she's doing her best and nailing all the jokes, and you know, Kerry Russell is a fantastic performer, but Adrian Shelley is bringing something there that's just so warm, so kind, and so unlike an actor in the traditional sense. It just makes me so happy to watch, and it's a very conflicting film. I think it's wonderful, and you should watch it if you haven't. And the only thing I can give us is a bucket of cheese.

[58:45] Jess McAnally: Okay. What?

[58:47] Andrew DeWolf: A bucket of cheese.

[58:49] Jess McAnally: Bucket?

[58:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Lies. To quote the movie, Cal says, and you, late again, you are inches away from being fired, Missy. And Becky says, oh, just try firing me, you old bucket of cheese. And Cal says, who are you calling a bucket of cheese, you heifer? Now get back to work for a fire ass. Calm down, you psychotic ape.

[59:10] Jess McAnally: Okay. You know, the South is really a place that exists.

[59:16] Andrew DeWolf: The South is a fun place. Also, weird little tidbit, that five minute date thing, Adrian Shelley actually did that in real life. That was a real thing she did.

[59:28] Jess McAnally: Just go, just fuck someone at that point, you know?

[59:32] Andrew DeWolf: I like it, because if you're like a douchebag of a guy, like, you just want to leave. You don't want to waste your evening.

[59:39] Jess McAnally: I guess. I guess.

[59:42] Andrew DeWolf: Jess, you're not. You're from Michigan.

[59:44] Jess McAnally: That's as far away from the South as you can get.

[59:47] Andrew DeWolf: Canada, fucker.

[59:48] Jess McAnally: Yeah, but none of us are from Canada.

[59:51] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, which means it doesn't exist.

[59:52] Jess McAnally: Yes.

[59:54] Andrew DeWolf: Speaking of things that don't exist, thank you guys for listening and please follow us on iTunes and Spotify at TheCheeseWheel. Please follow us on Twitter at CheeseWheelCast. We're on Patreon at TheCheeseWheel. We're on Instagram at TheCheeseWheelPodcast. Our YouTube page is still Musicals with Cheese for the moment. Patreon only podcast, it'll be coming back one day. Email us at musicaltheaterlives because the musical theater still will live. Our Keeper of the Cheese continues to be Juliet Antonio. Thank you so much, Juliet.

[1:00:22] Jess McAnally: This show is edited by Andrew DeWolf. Our theme song was written by Andrew DeWolf and orchestrated by Jesse McAuley.

[1:00:30] Andrew DeWolf: GarageBand.

[1:00:31] Jess McAnally: And I did nothing.

[1:00:34] Andrew DeWolf: And I showed up.

[1:00:36] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Liz Estenow is also our co-host and you can find them on Instagram and Twitter at Liz Esten or Elizabeth Esten. They're different.

[1:00:46] Liz Esten: Instagram is Liz.Esten96. Twitter is Elizabeth Esten.

[1:00:50] Andrew DeWolf: I'm fairly sure if you just Google Liz Esten, you'll find both of them.

[1:00:54] Jess McAnally: That might not be true. There's another Elizabeth Esten out there.

[1:00:57] Andrew DeWolf: I think she's a real estate agent.

[1:00:59] Jess McAnally: You should fight her to the death.

[1:01:02] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for eating Jenna's pies.

[1:01:09] Jess McAnally: All right. Anything else we have left to say before we wrap this on up?

[1:01:13] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, we gotta spin the wheel. We gotta spin the wheel.

[1:01:15] Jess McAnally: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We gotta figure out what we're covering next week. Thank you.

[1:01:19] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, God. I'm doing so terrible at this.

[1:01:22] Jess McAnally: Pull out the wheel.

[1:01:23] Andrew DeWolf: Pull out the wheel.

[1:01:23] Jess McAnally: Let's whip out the wheel. All right. Here it is. Are we ready to spin it?

[1:01:28] Andrew DeWolf: It's on camera. It's on camera. It's so we can see the wheel.

[1:01:32] Jess McAnally: All right. I'm about to spin it. Are we ready?

[1:01:34] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Spin the wheel.

[1:01:36] Jess McAnally: Any predictions?

[1:01:38] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I think. Oh, my God.

[1:01:40] Jess McAnally: Something dramatic.

[1:01:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, definitely something dramatic. Definitely nothing too too silly.

[1:01:46] Jess McAnally: Nothing too childish.

[1:01:48] Andrew DeWolf: No. Something serious and adult.

[1:01:51] Jess McAnally: Well, let's spin it. Here we go.

[1:01:58] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, wow.

[1:01:59] Jess McAnally: It's spinning.

[1:02:00] Andrew DeWolf: It's going.

[1:02:01] Jess McAnally: Look at it go.

[1:02:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God.

[1:02:04] Jess McAnally: Oh, my God, Andrew.

[1:02:07] Andrew DeWolf: What is it?

[1:02:08] Jess McAnally: Fucking cars.

[1:02:10] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God.

[1:02:10] Jess McAnally: 2006.

[1:02:12] Andrew DeWolf: Your favorite. You picked this. This was you.

[1:02:16] Jess McAnally: For those of you who can't see, Andrew is full of shame.

[1:02:20] Andrew DeWolf: Guilt, shame, anger.

[1:02:22] Jess McAnally: I love cars.

[1:02:25] Andrew DeWolf: Tow Mater is your fursona.

[1:02:27] Jess McAnally: Get her done.

[1:02:28] Andrew DeWolf: Get her done.

[1:02:31] Jess McAnally: Well, we will see you next time to talk about cars on the only podcast gambled on a wheel, the cheese wheel. See you later.

[1:02:47] Andrew DeWolf: Baby, don't you cry. Gonna make a pie. Gonna make a pie with a heart in the middle.