This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Jesse McAnally: Do you want to know the problem with places like this? With cheese in general? It's never known how to convey the anatomy of a dairy. Cheese seeks discipline through fear, yet doesn't understand the true nature of creation. No one's ever believed in it enough to make it real. The same cannot be said of my work.

[0:21] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:23] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:25] Liz Esten: And I'm Liz Esten.

[0:27] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to the Cheese Wheel, a hyperfixation podcast where our topics are gambled on a big ol' wheel. And today, we are talking about one of Andrew's picks that landed on it last week. Um, what do we got? What do we got? Oh man, it's In the Mouth of Madness. The movie that I have watched four or five years in a row every single Halloween because it is just that good.

[0:51] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't know you were a sex pervert like this.

[0:53] Jesse McAnally: I am. Cue the trailer!

[1:21] Narrator: This one will drive you absolutely mad. The riots began because the stores could not meet the demands of Sutter Cain's novel, In the Mouth of Madness. Cain disappeared two months ago without a trace. Who's the guy that writes horror books? You can forget about Stephen King. Cain outsells them all. I need to know if he's alive or dead, and I need that book. It's a setup. I just have to work out how it's set up. Cain's writing has been known to have an effect on his readers.

[1:58] Jesse McAnally: So In the Mouth of Madness is a film written by Michael DeLuca, who we're gonna have to come back to in a second, and directed by the one and only greatest filmmaker of all time, John Carpenter. Based, very loosely, on the H.P. Lovecraft novel, At the Mountain of Madness, um, the film premiered at Germany's Fantasy Film Fest on August 10th, 1994, and was released in the United States on February 3rd, 1995. What a distance between those. The film ended up grossing $8 million on a budget ranging from $8 million to $14 million, making it a box office failure, like the other two pieces of media in John Carpenter's Apocalypse series. Um, the review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes says In the Mouth of Madness holds an approval rating of 60% based on 50 reviews, with a weighted average of 5.8 out of 10. Um, basically, it's a mixed film. The film's plot is, an insurance investigator begins discovering that the impact a horror writer's books have on his fans are more than inspirational.

[3:00] Jesse McAnally: Um, alright. So, Andrew, do you read Sutter Cain?

[3:11] Andrew DeWolf: Do you read Sutter Cain? Oh my fucking god, I don't read that kind of trash. This is kind of like, you know, if Stephanie Meyer was trying to destroy the world.

[3:19] Jesse McAnally: It's, I mean, I would say Sutter Cain is more of a direct stand-in for Stephen King, um, but his work is more H.P. Lovecraft.

[3:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but the initials are SK. It kind of sounds like Stephen King in certain cadences.

[3:29] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's Stephen King.

[3:34] Andrew DeWolf: But no, it's not Stephen King. He's writing horror books that are hugely influential in a market.

[3:36] Jesse McAnally: It's Stephen King.

[3:40] Andrew DeWolf: It can't be Stephen King. They mentioned Stephen King. It's like, oh, we're better than Stephen King.

[3:46] Jesse McAnally: It's true. It's true. That's true. The movie does mention Stephen King. I would say Sutter Cain is kind of an amalgamation of, like, H.P. Lovecraft, Stephen King, and just various other, like, pulp horror authors, essentially. But he becomes greater than that. He becomes God. Spoilers!

[4:12] Andrew DeWolf: I was literally about to ask, do we want to spoil this film, because I know this is like one of your favorite films of all time.

[4:16] Jesse McAnally: We spoil everything we talk about. I mean, spoilers.

[4:19] Andrew DeWolf: We recommend it. I feel like across the board, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth. The film's good, generally, right?

[4:23] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[4:27] Andrew DeWolf: It's incredible. It's a really, really fun watch. It's not something that I would go out and be like, oh, this is a masterpiece that must be in art museums or anything. But like, play this at your Halloween party, you know? It's fucking great.

[4:40] Jesse McAnally: I think it's pretty close until the ending. Like, the ending really is like, oh, okay. All right. Everything else leading up to that is like, great.

[4:48] Andrew DeWolf: That is one of my favorite parts, though. It's so funny. I love the ending. It's just so goofy. I don't know.

[4:56] Jesse McAnally: So this film, what is the plot, Andrew, in your own words?

[5:00] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. So, basically, there's a private insurance investigator, like the plot description. You know, those things exist.

[5:08] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[5:13] Andrew DeWolf: He goes out, and he tries to help companies, like, solve situations before they become insurance nightmares. Seems to be kind of the dealio. And he's approached by a publisher, a book publisher, because their big author, who is releasing a new book and has been writing this new book, has gone completely missing. He's just not around anymore, and they don't know where he is.

[5:44] Andrew DeWolf: And they hire this guy to try to find him. And essentially, what seems to be happening for the first, like, half is he's kind of uncovering that this publishing company has set up, like, a bit of, like, a publicity stunt where they're hiding this guy somewhere in, like, New Hampshire or something like that. But they go to a town that is imaginary, and only exists in the books, and somehow they actually go there, and all the stuff that was in those books is real. And that's when it just kind of goes off the rails. And from there, it gets difficult to, like, describe the plot beyond just, like, the author has somehow communicated with Lovecraftian, like, old creatures that live behind a door to a different dimension, and they have turned his books into reality. And it's all just completely off the rails, crazy from there. So, so it's like, it's really good, but it's hard to describe.

[6:54] Jesse McAnally: Um, you struggled there. Um, let me talk about the writer of this film for a second. Do any of you know who Michael DeLuca is?

[7:00] Liz Esten: Maybe I know some of his work.

[7:04] Andrew DeWolf: I've heard the name Mike DeLuca, but I don't recognize his work.

[7:08] Jesse McAnally: That's kind of what I was thinking. Um, he's only ever written one other film, and that film is Freddy's Dead, the Final Nightmare.

[7:15] Andrew DeWolf: Are you fucking kidding me?

[7:17] Jesse McAnally: That's gross.

[7:18] Andrew DeWolf: Hey, you forgot the power glove!

[7:27] Jesse McAnally: Um, but he's a producer on a lot more films, including the Fifty Shades of Grey series, uh, The Social Network, Captain Phillips, Ghost Rider Spirit of Vengeance, Fright Night, the remake, Drive Angry, Brothers of the Love Guru, 21, Ghost Rider, the first one, Zathura, um, and a lot of other blockbusters, and a few wackier ones like Hedwig and the Angry Inch. He's mostly a producer. He has written two films, one of them being this, the other being Freddy's Dead.

[7:53] Andrew DeWolf: Talk about a wide spectrum there. Although, I would say tonally, those aren't that far off. Like, they're both kind of goofy horror movies.

[8:01] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I guess.

[8:06] Andrew DeWolf: It's just one of them is, one of them is good, and the other one is, uh, complete garbage. Not to be mean, it's the difference between what you have when you have your film in the hands of John Carpenter, one of the greatest directors ever to exist, and in the hands of Rachel Talalay, who I think is a great TV director, and that's about it.

[8:26] Jesse McAnally: Well, that was also her first directing thing, so...

[8:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, you're right.

[8:30] Jesse McAnally: It was a big, big thing on her plate. She's also the only woman to direct a Nightmare movie, so I'm very defensive of her, but, like...

[8:37] Andrew DeWolf: I think she's great at TV. Her stuff she's done for Doctor Who is incredible.

[8:41] Jesse McAnally: She's great outside of Freddy's Dead.

[8:45] Andrew DeWolf: I haven't seen Tank Girl yet, but I think that would probably be a good one for the wheel.

[8:48] Jesse McAnally: It would.

[8:49] Andrew DeWolf: But back to In the Mouth of Madness. This is possibly the last good John Carpenter film.

[8:55] Jesse McAnally: What has he done since? I don't keep up with his...

[8:58] Andrew DeWolf: Ghosts of Mars, Vampires...

[9:01] Jesse McAnally: He hasn't directed something since '03, if I recall correctly.

[9:04] Andrew DeWolf: 2011.

[9:05] Jesse McAnally: 2011, okay. It's been a minute.

[9:08] Andrew DeWolf: It's been a minute, and he keeps trying, and they're like, No. No. No, John. We don't want this.

[9:17] Jesse McAnally: You could write a few jingles if you want, but we're good on that.

[9:23] Andrew DeWolf: He did, like, John Carpenter's Suburban Screams, which nobody liked, and then his last film proper was The Ward in 2011.

[9:33] Jesse McAnally: What's your name?

[9:35] Andrew DeWolf: Kristen.

[9:37] Jesse McAnally: Welcome to The Ward, your new home.

[9:41] Andrew DeWolf: He was in a slump. His previous two films, one I think is great, one is very bad.

[9:49] Jesse McAnally: We have They Live, which I think is a fantastic film, and then Memoirs of an Invisible Man, where he meets Sam Neill.

[9:57] Andrew DeWolf: Have either of you seen that movie?

[10:00] Liz Esten: No, but the poster looks cracked out.

[10:03] Andrew DeWolf: It's a Chevy Chase comedy, where Chevy Chase wanted it to be a dramatic film about being an invisible man, and they hired John Carpenter to give it some legitimacy, but then obviously the studio wanted a comedy, so they recut it to be a comedy, and nobody's happy by the end of it.

[10:22] Jesse McAnally: It's a bad, boring movie, but Sam Neill's very funny in it as the villain.

[10:27] Andrew DeWolf: Sam Neill is an actor that I like quite a bit.

[10:33] Liz Esten: I don't really know what it is about him, but I feel like he just has this kind of vibe to him.

[10:38] Andrew DeWolf: I'm just like, I just kind of like him.

[10:42] Jesse McAnally: Obviously he's good in Jurassic Park, but I also like him in this a lot.

[10:48] Andrew DeWolf: In the Mouth of Madness is his movie.

[10:53] Liz Esten: He's also good in...

[10:55] Andrew DeWolf: God, what is that not very good horror movie?

[10:58] Liz Esten: Event Horizon?

[10:59] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, Event Horizon.

[11:01] Liz Esten: I like him in that too, though.

[11:02] Andrew DeWolf: He has the incredible scene where he cuts his eyes out and says that he doesn't need eyes where he's going.

[11:10] Jesse McAnally: What happened to your eyes?

[11:12] Andrew DeWolf: Where am I going?

[11:13] Liz Esten: We won't need eyes to see.

[11:15] Jesse McAnally: I don't know how to ask this.

[11:18] Andrew DeWolf: He gives me character actor vibe, but is he attractive, Liz?

[11:22] Liz Esten: Is he an attractive man?

[11:23] Andrew DeWolf: Are you asking me, a 28-year-old, if Sam Neill, an old-ass man, is attractive?

[11:28] Liz Esten: I'm talking like even at his youngest. Was he ever an attractive guy?

[11:31] Andrew DeWolf: Here's the thing. Sam Neill is my dad's favorite actor, so automatically I find him less attractive by that proxy.

[11:37] Liz Esten: And I'm like, okay.

[11:41] Andrew DeWolf: Because he just reminds me of my dad whenever I see him.

[11:46] Liz Esten: Like, oh, it's my dad, Sam Neill.

[11:48] Andrew DeWolf: Because I agree. He gives dad energy, and he gets to lead movies.

[11:53] Liz Esten: He doesn't look like Chris Hemsworth and be the star of a Jurassic Park movie.

[11:58] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Jurassic Park 3.

[12:00] Liz Esten: He was the star of both of those, and he didn't have abs.

[12:03] Andrew DeWolf: Like, he's just kind of a weird New Zealand man, and I love it.

[12:07] Liz Esten: He's just a weird guy.

[12:09] Andrew DeWolf: We need more actors like that.

[12:10] Liz Esten: We do.

[12:12] Andrew DeWolf: Actors are getting too attractive.

[12:12] Liz Esten: We literally, we need to tone them down.

[12:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they're too hot.

[12:14] Andrew DeWolf: I'm the last balding actor, like a proper balding actor, because everyone gets fucking hair plugs.

[12:19] Liz Esten: Joel McHale can't even go bald anymore, neither can Chris Evans.

[12:23] Andrew DeWolf: Like, yeah, check their hairlines, guys. Richard Kind?

[12:26] Liz Esten: Richard Kind? But I'm thinking younger. I think Jude Law might be the last actor proper to have that male pattern baldness.

[12:35] Andrew DeWolf: I always say, but Jude Law's still kind of hot though.

[12:37] Liz Esten: He makes it work? I think Bob Hoskins is kind of, like, can get it.

[12:41] Andrew DeWolf: He's got the charm where it's like, you know what, I could buy him as a romantic lead.

[12:45] Liz Esten: Rest in peace, Bob Hoskins, but you can get it.

[12:47] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, is bald automatically not attractive? Like, is that just an automatic thing? I feel like that's not true.

[12:54] Liz Esten: No, but I'm talking like the male pattern baldness with the rings.

[12:57] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I remember... You want, you want Costanza?

[13:00] Liz Esten: Yes. And when's the last time you had that?

[13:04] Andrew DeWolf: Like, we've had some overweight actors, like, but then they get on Ozempic and we can't even have that anymore.

[13:10] Liz Esten: I want to see more unattractive people in movies. Let me have it.

[13:15] Andrew DeWolf: Not just men either, like, everybody. Less attractive people across the board.

[13:20] Liz Esten: Well, Netflix just released a movie called Uglies full of hot people, so I don't think we're getting any closer to that.

[13:26] Andrew DeWolf: Great. Get further and further from that line.

[13:29] Liz Esten: Let's go back to In the Mouth of Madness.

[13:31] Andrew DeWolf: Let's talk about the ugly people in this movie!

[13:33] Liz Esten: I don't think anyone's ugly in this movie.

[13:35] Andrew DeWolf: I think that grandmother character, like, they do such a good job making her deeply, deeply unpleasant.

[13:42] Liz Esten: Oh, yeah.

[13:43] Andrew DeWolf: And then the man in the opening scene that Sam Neill is interrogating, who is just a sweaty mess and chain-smoking.

[13:50] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[13:51] Andrew DeWolf: Like, we need those. We need.

[13:54] Liz Esten: Okay, so when you say grandmother character, are you referring to the person who runs the inn or the person who turns blue?

[14:00] Andrew DeWolf: Did I ever tell you my favorite color was blue?

[14:05] Liz Esten: Good clarification.

[14:22] Andrew DeWolf: I love them both.

[14:23] Liz Esten: This movie's nutty.

[14:25] Andrew DeWolf: But I was referring to the one that runs the inn.

[14:29] Liz Esten: Oh, the one with, like, the weird bags under her eyes?

[14:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[14:32] Liz Esten: Yeah, I love her. Yeah.

[14:34] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, the inn is one of my favorite parts.

[14:37] Liz Esten: Oh, yeah.

[14:38] Andrew DeWolf: I really, the first time I watched this, I think the reason I liked this movie so much was literally just the scare with the painting.

[14:45] Liz Esten: That shit really got me.

[14:47] Andrew DeWolf: I was like, damn, that's a good, like, every time they look at the painting, it gets more, like, corrupted.

[14:54] Liz Esten: It's like, that's good.

[14:57] Andrew DeWolf: That was damn good.

[15:00] Liz Esten: I agree.

[15:01] Andrew DeWolf: That entire scene, like, from the moment they get into Hobbs Inn to basically the minute we see Sutter Cain in person, really, like, when he's, like, a full character, not just a visual.

[15:12] Liz Esten: Yeah, when he actually goes behind the door.

[15:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[15:15] Liz Esten: That is, I think, a perfect film.

[15:18] Andrew DeWolf: Like, that is, like, the best part of the movie.

[15:21] Liz Esten: And then it kind of is not so great at the beginning and not so great at the end.

[15:25] Andrew DeWolf: It's okay at the beginning and end, I would say.

[15:27] Liz Esten: It's not, like, bad.

[15:29] Andrew DeWolf: It's more just, like, the parts right where they're discovering everything in Hobbs End, which Hobbs End is the fictional town that is real, that whole section in the middle is, like, perfection.

[15:41] Liz Esten: They just fucking, it's gold.

[15:44] Andrew DeWolf: So many great stuff.

[15:46] Liz Esten: I love, like, when they first go there and the car is, like, floating and they don't understand what's happening and then it's just, they're there.

[15:53] Andrew DeWolf: That shit's great.

[15:54] Liz Esten: When they're at the inn and the painting is, like, confusing, that's fucking great.

[15:59] Andrew DeWolf: The, uh, when he's trying to escape the town, I think that's, is that after he meets them?

[16:05] Liz Esten: But that part is also good, I think.

[16:07] Andrew DeWolf: It's really when he, when he goes back, when he gets out of Hobbs End, I think that's when it kind of turns.

[16:12] Liz Esten: It does, but then we also have the blue sequence.

[16:15] Andrew DeWolf: The blue, see, there is so much good stuff, though.

[16:18] Liz Esten: And I would say before he gets there, there's some good stuff, too.

[16:21] Andrew DeWolf: I like the sequence where he's dreaming and he wakes up, but then he's still dreaming again and then he wakes up.

[16:27] Liz Esten: They do the double dream sequence, which is so stupid, but it's great.

[16:30] Andrew DeWolf: I gotta say, I absolutely fucking hated that in American Werewolf in London.

[16:34] Liz Esten: I thought it was hilarious here.

[16:36] Andrew DeWolf: Liz, I'm gonna ask you a question, because you and I, I'm betting I've only watched this once for this podcast.

[16:41] Liz Esten: No.

[16:42] Andrew DeWolf: And I know Andrew, okay.

[16:43] Liz Esten: Nope, I watched this about a year and a half ago.

[16:46] Andrew DeWolf: We haven't watched it every year the way Andrew has.

[16:48] Liz Esten: Okay, okay.

[16:50] Andrew DeWolf: You guys aren't true fans.

[16:51] Liz Esten: No.

[16:52] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I watched this at least once a year and a half ago, because Red Letter Media said it was good, so I watched it.

[17:00] Liz Esten: My question is, does Sam Neill's character, I believe his name is John Trent, and did John and Linda ever exist as real people, or are they only creations from Sutter Kane's book?

[17:13] Liz Esten: Okay, from what I can gauge, being like this my second viewing and actually thinking about this, John is not real.

[17:20] Andrew DeWolf: John is a creation of Sutter Kane, he's the main character of the book, and as we see later, the film adaptation of the book, which was in circulation very quickly.

[17:29] Liz Esten: It was so good! I love that, it's so good.

[17:31] Andrew DeWolf: He plays himself, the movie is the movie that we're watching, oh my god.

[17:35] Liz Esten: It's so good.

[17:36] Andrew DeWolf: It's so good!

[17:37] Liz Esten: And in regards to the random 80s woman, I think she was real to a point, and then she made out with a weird demon Sutter Kane, and then disappeared somehow into the madness.

[17:48] Andrew DeWolf: I'm going to argue that it's not clear whether or not either of them were ever real.

[18:00] Liz Esten: I would say it's possible that both of them used to be real, and they basically got turned into fake characters, or by the book.

[18:09] Andrew DeWolf: It could also be that they're both not real. It's really so up to interpretation, because we don't really understand what Sutter Kane is capable of.

[18:21] Liz Esten: We just know that he's able to make his book real.

[18:24] Andrew DeWolf: And that's about it.

[18:26] Liz Esten: It's the thing Stephen King always wanted when he was on Coke.

[18:29] Andrew DeWolf: I do want to say, I'm leaning towards was never real for at least Sam Neill, I didn't mean for that to rhyme.

[18:36] Liz Esten: Because living in his apartment, there's nothing.

[18:39] Andrew DeWolf: Nothing that makes him a human being in there.

[18:41] Liz Esten: It looks like a hotel room.

[18:42] Andrew DeWolf: It's true.

[18:43] Liz Esten: And the only person we see him ever interact with, outside of the whole this story effectively, is just instantly killed.

[18:57] Andrew DeWolf: He solves one case, gets congratulated by a guy, and is like, I've got a lead for you, or something. And then a dude breaks down that window with an axe and kills that guy.

[19:07] Liz Esten: Not just a dude. That is Sutter Kane's agent.

[19:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's right.

[19:11] Liz Esten: Sutter Kane's agent.

[19:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, his agent who cracked reading the book.

[19:14] Liz Esten: Well, I don't believe that. I think his agent was trying to stop the apocalypse, and he knew the only way to stop it was to kill the main character.

[19:22] Andrew DeWolf: It's true.

[19:23] Liz Esten: I think that, which is why he went the most crazy out of all the people that read it.

[19:27] Andrew DeWolf: Because he's the one who recognized, oh shit, this is real, real.

[19:33] Liz Esten: Yeah, I found that fascinating upon analyzing it. You have all these people that are trying to stop this dude from bringing this manuscript back from Hobbes End.

[19:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, or New Hampshire.

[19:47] Liz Esten: Yeah, and it's just, I don't know. It's so wacky.

[19:52] Andrew DeWolf: That's another reason he's Stephen King, by the way.

[19:54] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[19:55] Andrew DeWolf: The New Hampshire thing.

[19:56] Liz Esten: New Hampshire.

[19:57] Andrew DeWolf: It's basically Maine.

[19:58] Liz Esten: Yeah, Stephen King sets all his stuff in Maine.

[20:00] Andrew DeWolf: Sutter Kane sets all his stuff in Hobbes End in New Hampshire.

[20:03] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[20:04] Andrew DeWolf: And it's all connected, because of how the book covers are made.

[20:07] Liz Esten: It's all connected.

[20:08] Andrew DeWolf: It's a map.

[20:09] Liz Esten: It's Stephen King.

[20:10] Andrew DeWolf: That was dumb.

[20:11] Liz Esten: Let's be clear.

[20:12] Andrew DeWolf: The discovery of that was pretty dumb.

[20:14] Liz Esten: I would agree with you, except for it was part of the whole, this is a publicity stunt, but then it's not.

[20:24] Andrew DeWolf: It actually was supposed to be a publicity stunt by the publishers, but then they actually couldn't find him.

[20:32] Liz Esten: But also, if Sutter Kane has god powers, he would have made that happen somehow to get him to Hobbes End.

[20:38] Andrew DeWolf: And that's how we got to Hobbes End.

[20:40] Liz Esten: So the film that we saw and the film that was written and shot are two very different things.

[20:49] Andrew DeWolf: Apparently, there was supposed to be a lot more fantasy jumping between reality and what's fake, what's real, and all that. And then John Carpenter kind of streamlined it to like, we're all in fantasy, and we're all in real, and it's all real.

[21:03] Liz Esten: And he made it so streamlined and so very identifiable.

[21:08] Andrew DeWolf: And it's so much better. I can't imagine what the previous cuts of this would have looked like, because they just sound a little too out there.

[21:16] Liz Esten: So I'm very grateful that this is cut to the bone and all this.

[21:20] Andrew DeWolf: I love the wide shots, I love how they just hold on things. I think as a piece of filmmaking, this is incredible.

[21:28] Liz Esten: And we have not even brought up the practical effects or any of that kind of jazz yet.

[21:33] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, so good.

[21:34] Liz Esten: Do we want to just briefly mention and just talk about Carpenter's Apocalypse Trilogy and what that means?

[21:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I guess.

[21:45] Liz Esten: I did kind of cue it up, and I just didn't.

[21:48] Andrew DeWolf: So he made three films that he calls his Apocalypse Trilogy. The first being The Thing, then Prince of Darkness, then In the Mouth of Madness.

[21:58] Liz Esten: I think that one of them's bad, and the other two are great.

[22:03] Andrew DeWolf: I've not seen, and I assume I haven't seen the one that you think is bad, because I've not seen Prince of Darkness.

[22:09] Liz Esten: It's kind of boring, in a way that this is decidedly not.

[22:14] Andrew DeWolf: But I think the idea behind him dubbing this a trilogy, because it really isn't canonical in any way at all, is it's just different stages of the end of the world or something like that?

[22:28] Liz Esten: It's just different ways the world would end.

[22:31] Andrew DeWolf: All three end with the end of the world, basically.

[22:34] Liz Esten: I mean, you could argue The Thing doesn't, depending on your interpretation of the ending.

[22:39] Andrew DeWolf: I think it basically means that no matter what, The Thing is out there.

[22:44] Liz Esten: Yeah, I mean, we know that it doesn't die to fire, so whatever.

[22:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and Prince of Darkness, maybe one day we'll cover that, I doubt it.

[22:56] Liz Esten: It also is about the world might be taken over.

[23:01] Andrew DeWolf: It's a very bleak, ambiguous ending, the same as the other two.

[23:07] Liz Esten: What do you guys feel is your favorite John Carpenter film? Because I feel like that says a lot about you, before we go into a mid-show.

[23:13] Andrew DeWolf: And then we'll talk about a bunch of other stuff. Is this ranking up there for you, Andrew? Is this your number one?

[23:18] Andrew DeWolf: I think it ranks up there, but I don't think I can put it as my number one, because I do think that I like The Thing more.

[23:25] Liz Esten: I think that's a movie that I like better.

[23:29] Andrew DeWolf: I just think this is an easier watch. This is one you can kind of just put on and just enjoy.

[23:35] Liz Esten: It has female characters, too.

[23:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, that's good.

[23:39] Liz Esten: Barely, barely, but yes.

[23:40] Andrew DeWolf: But I would say The Thing, you have to pay a bit more attention to, and you have to kind of get into. Whereas this movie, you could just throw it on and just enjoy. It's one of those movies.

[23:52] Liz Esten: But I would probably say that The Thing is my favorite. This is probably my second or third favorite.

[23:59] Andrew DeWolf: I am a fan of Big Trouble in Little China, which is maybe not the best thing to be a fan of, but I don't know. I like it.

[24:09] Liz Esten: Also, there is Halloween, which I've not seen Halloween that much.

[24:16] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[24:17] Liz Esten: Yeah, I've seen it a couple times, but not a lot.

[24:20] Andrew DeWolf: What about you, Liz?

[24:21] Liz Esten: I mean, I've seen parts of Halloween. I haven't really seen the whole thing in one singular time.

[24:28] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you guys, I just never got to it.

[24:31] Jesse McAnally: Alright, well that's wild, you gotta see the whole thing at least.

[24:33] Andrew DeWolf: I know, I know, everyone tells me this. I know, it's just, I just, I feel every time I start to watch it, I get bored. Cause it's so slow in the beginning, and I'm just like, I can't, I can't.

[24:39] Jesse McAnally: That's the best part!

[24:46] Andrew DeWolf: I know, but I just wanna get to the fun stuff, man!

[24:50] Jesse McAnally: I will say, Halloween works best if you're watching it in a theater, and you get the big screen and you can pick him out, cause they hide Michael Myers throughout the movie.

[24:58] Andrew DeWolf: I'm watching this in my room on Shudder in broad fucking daylight. Like, that's not the vibe.

[25:03] Jesse McAnally: Different experience.

[25:04] Andrew DeWolf: You gotta wait till nighttime, come on.

[25:07] Jesse McAnally: I'm going to bed, Andrew.

[25:10] Jesse McAnally: Anyway, I didn't answer the question. So, the thing was pretty seminal for me in terms of like, my love of modern body horror, so I obviously have to go with The Thing. It's probably like, it was that and The Fly I watched within one year, and I was like, oh, this is my shit, this is, this is my shit.

[25:29] Andrew DeWolf: I wanna see The Substance so badly right now, it's killing me, I don't have time to go see it. Like, I love The Thing clearly. But like, I've seen like, I like Christine, I think Christine's actually a pretty good Stephen King adaptation that we don't talk about a lot.

[25:44] Jesse McAnally: And other than that, I don't, I don't really watch John Carpenter that much outside of like, those two movies.

[25:51] Andrew DeWolf: Fair.

[25:51] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[25:52] Jesse McAnally: Christine is such a, a goaded pick, too.

[25:54] Andrew DeWolf: It is.

[25:55] Jesse McAnally: Honestly, not to be a basic bitch, Halloween and Starman are like, so close to me.

[26:01] Andrew DeWolf: Starman is so underrated, and it's criminal that no one brings that up.

[26:05] Jesse McAnally: But yeah, Halloween—

[26:06] Andrew DeWolf: I've not seen that.

[26:07] Jesse McAnally: We're gonna have to cover that.

[26:07] Andrew DeWolf: I've not seen Starman.

[26:09] Jesse McAnally: I just watched it when I watched In the Mouth of Madness. We double-featured it because we were just in a John Carpenter mood.

[26:15] Andrew DeWolf: And mmm, oh, that's so good. And They Live is also great, but it's Halloween and Starman, then In the Mouth of Madness, then.

[26:22] Jesse McAnally: I mean, he has a lot.

[26:23] Andrew DeWolf: Like, yeah, like, They Live is also very good. Escape from New York is pretty good. It's not like, amazing, but it's pretty, pretty solid.

[26:32] Jesse McAnally: He also had a couple episodes of the horror anthology Masters of Horror, which I've actually heard is like, his episodes are pretty good. Even though a lot of them aren't like, great.

[26:40] Andrew DeWolf: I love his scores.

[26:44] Jesse McAnally: But yeah, we, we can't go into that. But you know what we can go into?

[26:49] Andrew DeWolf: A mid-show.

[26:50] Jesse McAnally: And we'll see you right after we're done.

[26:53] Andrew DeWolf: Or will we go into a mid-show?

[26:55] Jesse McAnally: We will, we will.

[27:04] Andrew DeWolf: Um, hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a show to you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[27:11] Andrew DeWolf: And at Patreon, you get some cool shit like Patreon meetups, so we're gonna have one next week on October 11th, and it'll be a good time, so you better, better come join us and have some fun. We're gonna play some games, um, and you get to hang out with me, at the very least.

[27:25] Andrew DeWolf: Um. Sorry! Um, our current patrons are Justice Stampede, Ian Cassidy, Monica Thurow, Brent Black, Lithania Stacey Coombe, Mary Lou Shoket, Jon Van Alls, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Jen Aces, our Nothing is Certain Except Beth in Taxis, Thesbian, Chai Teacup, Chris Mark Holt, Kiji Marie Anastasio, RJ Noriega, Sebastian Canino, Cinemageddon Reviews, Joe, Bjorn Hermanns, Toriana Frazier, Sammy, the adequate amount, Jacobson, Kaylee Blazier, Villainous Miss, The Omega Geek, Manny Wargoal, Lisa Erdman, Evan Ball, Zachary Torres, Mara Marasso, Mara, Possessed Washing Machine, Nick Roten, Puffy Boy, Sydney Hicks, Gold Plated Kikimora, Aria Artie, Emma, Tara Balda, JRL Studio, Alexandra Dahm, BT McEnemy, Sarah, Virgil Z. Demon, and Mary Curtright.

[28:20] Andrew DeWolf: They all give us a little extra financial support that can get a lot of fun perks, including next week's episode was voted on and decided by our own patrons. And we are covering both Scary Godmother films, as picked by Puffy Boy, our lovely patron Puffy Boy.

[28:38] Andrew DeWolf: So if you'd like to be involved in our next Patreon pick, come join us over there on Patreon. There's still time. Uh, how about we get back to the show?

[28:54] Jesse McAnally: All right, now that we're back to it, it's time for your favorite part of the show. It's the Letterboxd Game Previews!

[29:02] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew, play the song.

[29:03] Jesse McAnally: Play the song, Andrew.

[29:05] Andrew DeWolf: I've been playing the song lately, okay? Come on.

[29:09] Jesse McAnally: It's time for Previews!

[29:13] Jesse McAnally: It's time for Previews!

[29:16] Jesse McAnally: If this is your first episode of the Cheesy Wheel, this is a game where I pulled real Letterboxd reviews, and I'm making Liz and Andrew go head-to-head to guess whether they're a one-star or five-star based on nothing but the review alone.

[29:27] Jesse McAnally: All right, are you guys ready?

[29:28] Liz Esten: I'm always ready because I always win.

[29:30] Andrew DeWolf: I'm ready because I always lose.

[29:33] Liz Esten: If I don't win, then somebody cheated, I was gonna say.

[29:37] Andrew DeWolf: I cheated.

[29:37] Jesse McAnally: Um, to quote everyone's favorite alien film, Alien vs. Predator, whoever wins, we lose.

[29:43] Jesse McAnally: All right, Liz, you're first.

[29:45] Liz Esten: Oh, great.

[29:47] Liz Esten: I wish Sutter Cain was real, and I would read all of his books.

[29:51] Jesse McAnally: First of all, get a therapist. Uh, second of all, five-star?

[29:57] Liz Esten: That is correct!

[29:58] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah?

[30:00] Andrew DeWolf: Adult Goosebumps.

[30:03] Liz Esten: You know, honestly, the vibe, that's actually quite accurate, I would say.

[30:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it does feel like it. Um, we're gonna go with a five for that because I agree and I like it.

[30:13] Jesse McAnally: That is wrong! It was a one!

[30:14] Andrew DeWolf: It reminds me of that plant episode with the dad in the basement of Goosebumps.

[30:18] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[30:19] Jesse McAnally: Liz?

[30:26] Liz Esten: Yes?

[30:27] Liz Esten: The Sutter Cain books are an analog for the Taylor Swift Heiress Tour. Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot.

[30:31] Jesse McAnally: Oh! The Unspeakable Horrors!

[30:35] Liz Esten: Uh, I don't think a Swiftie would put an ax in someone's head.

[30:38] Andrew DeWolf: I think they might.

[30:42] Liz Esten: I don't think they would. Uh, but you know.

[30:44] Andrew DeWolf: It depends who.

[30:46] Liz Esten: Yeah, who would?

[30:47] Andrew DeWolf: I don't want to theorize this.

[30:49] Liz Esten: Uh, one.

[30:50] Jesse McAnally: That is a five.

[30:51] Liz Esten: Damn!

[30:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah?

[30:54] Andrew DeWolf: Uh-oh!

[30:55] Jesse McAnally: Sam Neill is my friend's neighbor! Worried face. All caps. Edit! Colon! My dad just told me he was OUR neighbor! Five worried faces.

[31:05] Andrew DeWolf: Oh. That's sick, though, man. Damn, you're gonna be in the movie.

[31:09] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you'll be in the movie!

[31:13] Andrew DeWolf: Um, five?

[31:16] Jesse McAnally: That was a one!

[31:17] Liz Esten: That is not a one! You live next door!

[31:19] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[31:19] Liz Esten: You live next door to Sam Neill! It's fucking sick!

[31:22] Andrew DeWolf: My favorite part is he had to edit it to update it.

[31:26] Liz Esten: Um, Liz.

[31:27] Liz Esten: I live next door to the star. This sucks.

[31:29] Jesse McAnally: That sucks.

[31:30] Liz Esten: I hate this movie.

[31:32] Jesse McAnally: Yes, I'm ready.

[31:33] Liz Esten: Sam Neill changed his accent like four times in this!

[31:37] Andrew DeWolf: That's just Sam Neill's trademark. He can't keep an accent.

[31:41] Liz Esten: Uh, five.

[31:42] Jesse McAnally: Yep!

[31:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yep?

[31:47] Andrew DeWolf: Me when I read Elden Ring guides on IG.

[31:53] Jesse McAnally: Um, Jesus fucking Christ. Uh, one?

[31:57] Jesse McAnally: Five.

[31:58] Andrew DeWolf: No, five.

[31:59] Jesse McAnally: That was a one!

[32:00] Andrew DeWolf: Fucking Christ, dude. You were so close!

[32:02] Liz Esten: Yes?

[32:07] Liz Esten: Didn't mention its position on the state.

[32:11] Andrew DeWolf: On the state of what?

[32:15] Liz Esten: The state of madness?

[32:18] Andrew DeWolf: I think maybe the state of New Hampshire or wherever it was.

[32:20] Liz Esten: Oh.

[32:21] Liz Esten: I mean, I have family in New Hampshire. It's, it's, uh, it's conservative Massachusetts. It's a perfectly fine, it's a perfectly fine state if you know who to hang out with.

[32:30] Andrew DeWolf: I eat my own family.

[32:31] Liz Esten: Uh, one.

[32:33] Jesse McAnally: That is correct!

[32:35] Andrew DeWolf: Damn.

[32:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yep.

[32:39] Andrew DeWolf: Love how John Carpenter said, Throw away your books! Rally in the streets, troll face!

[32:45] Jesse McAnally: You know, I've said five for all of them and they've all been wrong, so I feel like if I gamble one more time.

[32:50] Andrew DeWolf: Five.

[32:51] Jesse McAnally: That is correct! But Liz won the letterbox game! It's a miracle!

[32:54] Liz Esten: You know, if you like what you're talking about, you can't, you can't get into the heads of these type of people, you know?

[33:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[33:02] Liz Esten: I know. I think I lost Beatrice, so.

[33:04] Andrew DeWolf: Also, I think just getting in the heads of these types of people is dangerous for your own health.

[33:09] Jesse McAnally: It really is, yeah. You're, you're entering the mouth of madness.

[33:11] Liz Esten: So, can someone remake The Mouth of Madness, but about Letterboxd?

[33:16] Andrew DeWolf: What would the remake, like, what, if you had to remake this kind of story again, what would be something that could actually cause this kind of phenomena?

[33:23] Liz Esten: They'd do something with like TikTok or something.

[33:26] Andrew DeWolf: Let's not discuss this. I don't want there to be a remake.

[33:28] Liz Esten: Let's not put the idea in their heads.

[33:30] Andrew DeWolf: Actually, they kind of did remake this. It, uh, it's called Pooka Lives. It's on Hulu. It's not very good.

[33:38] Liz Esten: I remember the commercials for it, but I didn't know.

[33:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Pooka had a sequel. I watched it. It's not that good.

[33:44] Liz Esten: I mean, wasn't there like a, is it like a Jim Carrey movie or something? Where the, the author—

[33:47] Andrew DeWolf: The Number 23?

[33:49] Liz Esten: No, no, it's like a comedy version of this, where like the author is writing him and he's in a story.

[33:55] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Stranger Than Fiction is what you're saying.

[33:57] Liz Esten: Stranger Than Fiction, yeah.

[33:58] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that's Will Ferrell, yeah.

[34:00] Liz Esten: Oh, is that Will Ferrell? That's my bad.

[34:02] Andrew DeWolf: This is a story about a man named Harold Crick. Harold lived a life of solitude. He would walk home alone. He would eat alone. When others' minds would fantasize about their upcoming day.

[34:17] Liz Esten: Hello?

[34:19] Andrew DeWolf: Harold just counted brush strokes.

[34:23] Jesse McAnally: All right, who just said Harold just counted brush strokes?

[34:25] Liz Esten: Yeah, isn't that, that's like a comedy version of this, isn't it?

[34:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they don't dive into any of the fun issues that this movie kind of brings up.

[34:34] Liz Esten: Well, that's because all of those issues are scary.

[34:39] Andrew DeWolf: Like, imagine if you were a fictional character who was just told what to do by the god of the universe.

[34:43] Liz Esten: Question, why does the old lady become a Cthulhu monster at the end?

[34:50] Andrew DeWolf: Why not?

[34:51] Jesse McAnally: Because everyone gets corrupted by the influence of the old ones.

[34:57] Andrew DeWolf: Come on, this is basic Lovecraftian shit.

[34:59] Jesse McAnally: I.e. why not?

[35:01] Andrew DeWolf: What are the old ones?

[35:02] Jesse McAnally: The old ones are beings that are beyond our comprehension, that live in our universe or in a different dimension or something. And they get in this, they live in a different dimension. And they have somehow been trapped. And if you let them out, shit goes crazy, you know?

[35:21] Andrew DeWolf: Shit gets bad.

[35:23] Jesse McAnally: Basically, the idea behind all of this type of horror is if you witness something that is beyond human comprehension, and you go insane because of it.

[35:36] Andrew DeWolf: I would say this movie is probably one of the better Lovecraft adaptations, despite it not actually being a Lovecraft adaptation, because it actually gets that vibe kind of down.

[35:47] Jesse McAnally: Strangely, it's a Lovecraft adaptation the same way as an adaptation of that fucking Orchid book.

[35:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but Lovecraft adaptations usually suck, honestly.

[36:03] Jesse McAnally: I don't think his books really work in movie form very well.

[36:09] Andrew DeWolf: So this kind of took the ideas and translated into something that works better as a movie.

[36:16] Jesse McAnally: And gives no credit to that racist son of a bitch.

[36:21] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not going to defend any of his personal views. Definitely a piece of shit.

[36:24] Jesse McAnally: I was going to say Color Out of Space, but the director turns out to be a piece of shit.

[36:32] Andrew DeWolf: The man lived in Providence, Rhode Island and never left. Not a very worldly gentleman.

[36:39] Jesse McAnally: Hey, hey, hey. Don't be mean to our keeper.

[36:42] Juliet Antonio: I lived in Rhode Island for a while. I like Providence. It's a great city. But, you know, if you never leave. The practical effects of this film are incredible. But in that same way of like an evil death, like when you have the contortionist bending backwards, you just throw a fucking mask of the lady that looks 5% like the lady on it. Yeah, but I would say for the most part, there's some very fun stuff. What's like your favorite effects shot?

[37:16] Liz Esten: Probably something small, like, you know, probably just the painting. Like that's an effective thing where it doesn't look like CGI nightmare. Unlike, you know, the IOM nonsense at the end. Andrew, what about you?

[37:28] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, honestly, I think I just love all the monsters. I also really love the wall that Sam Neill's in front of that just has text of the book itself in front of him, ripped in like much a place. Like, I just love that shot. I'm just kind of obsessed with that shot. But it's like I just love all the monsters. I just love everything in this. This is K&B, who is like Greg Nicotero and all those people. They did Evil Dead 2. They did a bunch of nightmare movies. I just it's so I just love all the effects. I can't even pick one.

[38:04] Andrew DeWolf: I know you got one in the chamber. I think one of my favorite sequences. And I guess there's definitely some effects involved and maybe the effects aren't what's great about it, but I just really like it when he's trying to escape the town and he keeps driving past the same person riding a bicycle who gets like progressively older and creepier. Actually, I can't. Is that when he's trying to escape the town or is that when he's trying to enter the town?

[38:30] Liz Esten: When they're trying to enter the town.

[38:31] Andrew DeWolf: The ladies. Yeah, yeah. OK, yeah, it's that that that's maybe not like effects heavy necessarily, but I just really love that whole sequence. I mean, if we're just going to go on like favorite effect in the movie, it's the blue scene where he's like, my favorite color is blue. And then they just tint everything blue. And he's just like, Oh, perfect, perfect cut. I do love the ending. Can we just quickly say what happens at the very end? Because we touched on it for a second. But like, it's just so funny. It's so fucking funny. Skip ahead a bit. We're going to spoil the end of this movie completely. Like when detail at the beginning of the movie, he gets put into an insane asylum. I think I think he's like dragged in there.

I can't even really remember. He's put in an insane asylum. And then at the end, we come back to him. He's he's still in there, except for now everyone's dead. And so he somehow he just he gets out like one of the monsters, like breaks the door or something, and he's able to get out and he walks the streets and like the book had been released and was getting fast tracked to becoming a movie. But it like corrupted everyone and turned them all into crazy monsters. But then he goes to the movie theater and they're playing the fucking movie. And it's just him sitting in his like asylum garb covered in like symbols like covered in crucifixes and symbols and shit. And he's just laughing hysterically at a video of the movie that we're currently watching on the big screen where he's saying this is not reality, not reality.

And it's just like he's just laughing hysterically watching it. It's like, oh, my fucking God, it's so good. This is not a Suttercade story. This is not reality, not reality, not reality. This is reality.

[40:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's not reality. Oh, I do want to say that while all that thing, all that is happening, it's it's less about like the actual act of watching the film, which is the film we just watched. Like he is watching literally what we saw before. It's not like in other movies where they like do like a fake recreation of the movie we just watched or something like that. Like it's not like Chicken Chicken Little. It's a it's a classic point of reference.

[41:33] Liz Esten: Yeah, yeah. It's not like that. No, it's it's literally just the exact movie we were watching, like with the exact same shots and everything. And it's kind of like YouTube poop because it's like this is reality. This is reality. This is reality. This is a reality. It's like YouTube poop. You don't know what real is. Um, I love it. I mean, and it leaves you feeling kind of gross at the end. I love a movie that makes you feel icky. And as our last topic, because I do want to wrap this up, the opening scene where the printing press is printing the books to like knock off Metallica, like it's basically a remake of the scene from Christine. Well, the car where the car is getting built, like it's John Carpenter doing his John Carpenter thing, and it just gets you in the right mood.

Like that is a I get why he watches every Halloween, because once you turn that on and that music starts up and those machines start revving, you're like, oh, you know, the opening of like Maximum Overdrive with the ACDC, that movie sucks. But the ACDC gets you hyped. Like that movie blinded its cinematographer permanently.

[42:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Oh, cocaine. Wait, what the fuck? What happened there? A piece of debris that Stephen King's like, it'll be fine. And then immediately went through the DP's eye. Both eyes are just blinded. One eye blinded, one eye. But, you know, a DP kind of needs to look through both eyes. It kind of needs depth perception. I'm not saying that that's like better or anything. It's just like, Jesus fucking Christ. I'm glad Stephen King isn't a coke anymore. I'm glad he doesn't never directed another film. But what is our overall thoughts of In the Mouth of Madness and our cheese ratings? Andrew, start us off, because this is your choice.

[43:08] Andrew DeWolf: All right. In the Mouth of Madness is just fucking. It's just dumb fun. I'm not going to pretend there's anything deep about this movie. Realistically, it lays everything on the table for you. It's very blunt, but it's fun as hell. And it's just I just always say it's the perfect Halloween movie, because to me, what makes a perfect Halloween movie is an actual horror movie, but not one that's like incredibly scary or incredibly gory or like you want it to be mild scares, but not too much, because you want to be able to turn it on at a party and have people that aren't like huge horror movie fans not be like completely turned off. So perfect in that regard. And it's one of my absolute favorites to watch this time of year. So I'm going to give it a blue cheese, which I think is an obvious choice because there is a fantastic scene where everything turns blue. And if you watch the movie, you'll know exactly what I'm referring to. So this gets an easy blue cheese.

[44:23] Liz Esten: All right, Liz, how about you? I love this movie. It's it's dumb fun, but you can also like sit down and think about it and think about what it's going for. It's Lovecraft without the baggage. It's just the effects are fantastic. Sam Neill. This is probably the peak of his career for at least me. Besides the other movie, my dad keeps telling me to watch it. I keep forgetting the name of, but like Jurassic Park. No, it's a fucking weird Australian movie. And I don't remember what it's called. And I keep waiting to ask him. But yeah, anyway, I love this movie. It's so good. Watch it on Halloween. Watch it anytime in October. Watch it outside of October. Like, watch it. It's a really good experience. Get your friends together. It's a good time. And you don't need to be a huge horror fan to enjoy it. You can go in and have a good time no matter what. So I'm going to give this the crazy cheese barbecue burger from Burger King because it's this movie is kind of crazy.

[45:20] Andrew DeWolf: I like that. Have it your way. Have it your way. With the apocalypse. I love this movie. It's a good amount of fun. I feel I was interested beginning to end. I'm probably going to watch it a bunch of times. And I yeah, I really can't say anything that hasn't been said. Go watch it. And if you haven't, I don't care. I get if you're not into horror. This isn't really a horror film. Like if you're expecting like a true blue horror film, it's not that. It's if you could handle the fucking it remake, you'll like this. I would say this is less scary. This is way less scary than the remake. I can barely handle the it remake. It is a horror movie in that I do think it is a movie that actually has like scary topics at the forefront.

And it is it does have like scares that are in there to scare you. So it's not like not a horror movie. It's just not particularly like scary. It's kind of like it's kind of like the first scream movie. Like it's not particularly scary, but it gets you like that horror vibe. I like that. Yes, yes. I love all these things. I'm sorry. I am discovering my cheese rating. I might have I might have cheese rating too close to the sun here.

[46:34] Liz Esten: Oh, what did you do? I am giving this one big cheese pizza from a restaurant called Big Cheese Pizza and Hobbes, New Mexico. But oh, Jesus. So close. Not New Hampshire. But yeah, their logo looks like a little chody penis.

[46:51] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God.

[46:53] Liz Esten: And I don't know what to do with that. I didn't mean for that. Damn. Is that the big cheese himself? Look at that. Oh, my God. Is there a mascot?

[47:03] Andrew DeWolf: That's the mascot.

[47:03] Liz Esten: That's no, they're like a like a physical basket, like a Chuck E. Cheese guy. I don't look like this fucker. We got this chody dick in front of all of you. They're like laughing at him.

[47:15] Andrew DeWolf: We offer pizza, stromboli, sandwiches and other menu items.

[47:21] Liz Esten: Dude, that's the big cheese.

[47:22] Andrew DeWolf: That's the big cheese.

[47:24] Liz Esten: Oh, so this is a little girl with her mouth like wide open. It's so disturbing.

[47:28] Andrew DeWolf: Let's not. Let's not draw attention to that.

[47:30] Liz Esten: Yeah, we're done with that.

[47:35] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you all for listening. Please follow us on iTunes and Spotify at The Cheese Wheel. If you wouldn't mind, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or leave us a comment on Spotify to let us know what you're thinking. We are technically a rebranded brand new show, so we kind of need to know feedback on what we can do better. We're trying new things and we're doing cool shit. Please follow us on Twitter at Cheese Wheel Cast. We're on Patreon at The Cheese Wheel, Instagram at The Cheese Wheel Podcast. Patreon only podcast, Patreon with cheese. We just did Halloween Town commentary. It was a lot of fun. Go, it's up. You can listen to it right now. Email us at musicaltheatrelives at gmail.com. Our Keeper of the Cheese is Juliet Antonio.

Thank you very much, Juliet. And I hope you're enjoying Rhode Island that Andrew says you got to get out of. This show is edited by Andrew DeWolfe, and I think he's doing a fantabulous job. Our themes are created by Robin Nash of IOU Music UK, specifically the Brief Views theme. Our theme song is written by Andrew DeWolfe and orchestrated by myself. This show is hosted by Jesse McAnally, Andrew DeWolfe and Liz Esten. Thank you very much for listening. Anything else we have left to say?

[48:40] Andrew DeWolf: Do you read Sutter Cane?

[48:44] Liz Esten: Oh, did you guys know my favorite color was blue?