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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre, College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today, we have got Kevin Munhall on the pod. For our newer listeners, in these artist exploration episodes, we aim to explore the paths to success that artists have forged and are still forging, and tease out how their theatrical training has helped them to blaze that trail. And Kevin is actually someone who reached out to us about coming on. He was thinking that some of the work that he does with breath and performance coaching would be really appropriate to our students. And I have to say, I agree. And I really like the timing of trying to get it out now in January.

As our regular listeners will know, normally in our January and February pods, I like to be a little health-focused with these artist episodes. We've done some general wellness episodes in the past. And this year, we got this episode, which is going to focus on breathwork. And then our next artist episode is going to be focused on vocal health with the great Dr. Paul Kwok. Obviously, I recognize not everybody listens to this podcast synchronously. So I often do get people, I've often made the joke of like, they'll be congratulating me on the birth of my child because they're listening to an episode from four years ago. But for those who are listening in January and February, in the middle of their prime audition season, especially those seniors, you may be out about to head out to New York City Unified, and a lot of this will apply really directly to you.

And I will say, no, that's definitely true for our student listeners. But I also really think for our parent listeners, you can really benefit from some of this advice he gives both for yourself to actually take in some like this breathwork and stuff, and then also how you can influence your kids. You know, I often say at this time of year, it is a great time for parents to make sure you're attending to your own use, right? Are you a ball of nerves? And if you are, you're undoubtedly getting in the way of your child and their psychological process. You know, that's where I often tell our parents, when we're at the Palmer House, go book yourself a massage or get yourself a drink, whatever you need to do.

But if you need to relax, because you're in that heightened state, that will only help your child navigate their process and apply some of the things in this episode to themselves. You know, and you've heard me say this time and time again at this time of year, but for most of our students that have been preparing for months, this is where in those four different buckets we talk about, you know, we talk about we help you with the artistic buckets, the organizational bucket, the strategic bucket, and the psychological buckets, all kind of what we help you comprehensively with MTCA. That last bucket of the psychological, it just becomes so huge at this time of year. Such a big part of your focus wants to be about how you can bring a joyful present, psychologically competitive human being into the room.

You know, and for the most part, again, the artistic work, if you've been working for months, the artistic work is where it's going to be, right? You've done your organization, hopefully here you are, you've done your applications and all those kind of things. Hopefully you've listened to some of that strategic advice, you know, and how you've set up your auditions and what you're thinking about, though certainly some strategic adjustments can continue to be made this time of year. But so much of the game now really turns into that psychological part of who you bring into the room. You know, I think about with myself, the difference between Charlie at his best, you know, the version of Charlie that is like charming and effervescent and funny and quick on my feet and really fun to be around, that person definitely exists.

And also the stressed, glowering, kind of melancholic version of myself also really exists. Those are both Charlie. They're both true to me and in some ways they're both authentic to me as, you know, we all have so many sides to ourselves, so many different versions of ourselves we can bring in the room. But it's part of my job is going, well, how can I bring the best version of myself in there? How do I bring the fullness of myself, but hopefully also, you know, the best version of that, the healthy, glowing version of myself and not the downtrodden, sick, whatever, the not best version of myself. It's just such a huge part of what this time of year is. All right, I won't say much more. I'll be seeing many of you in New York City, in Chicago, in L.A. over the next coming weeks.

Again, please do come up and say hi if you're a listener and we haven't met yet. Of course, if you do want to be on the podcast itself, I will be doing those in-person green room interviews for person on the street interviews, so just let me know if you want to be on the pod. Depending on, you know, if I'm talking to a student at the time, I may redirect you and say, hey, come back in an hour, come back in half an hour, right? But I will do my best to get you on if I can. And I do mean to say also, if you have any specific subjects, I wanted to say this last year, but if you have any specific subjects that you know you want to chat on, please do let me know. You know, I'm going to try to make these person on the street interviews a bit more bite-sized so we can fit them in for the episode and I get some more people on and try to make the editing a little bit easier on us.

But I think I'm going to try to help tailor them a bit, but so can you. If you know, hey, I really want to give this bit of advice, there's something you know you want to talk about, maybe some big lesson that you want to pass on to the next generation, our listeners will definitely appreciate it. So don't hesitate to let me know what the thing you want to share is. All right, without further ado, here is Kevin Munhall.

[5:06] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by Kevin Munhall. Kevin has a BFA in musical theater from the University of Michigan. He's been on Broadway in Tootsie, Anastasia, Allegiance, Anything Goes, and has now added to his many hyphens, becoming a breath, stress, and performance coach. So we'll talk a bit more about what that means specifically, as I do really think this time of year, especially as this episode will be releasing, performance anxiety is just so big for so many of our listeners. I also, Kevin, I saw some pictures of you online taking a few Broadway show league swings. So we may have to chat about art and athletics a bit. I know that also gets into the work that you do. So we're going to talk about it as well. Though I will say they did you a little dirty in one of those photos. It looks like you're about to miss the ball that you're swinging at. I wasn't a nice photographer, whatever they chose. Kevin, how are you doing? Welcome on the show.

[5:57] Kevin Munhall: I'm fantastic. Thanks for having me.

[6:02] Charlie Murphy: Of course. Truly, truly a pleasure. I didn't mean to start off with a Broadway dig. It just happened to be on my list here. Well, so let's start off a little bit with, I want to talk about your personal and professional journey, and then we'll get a little bit more into some of the stuff you're doing at Habit Disruption, which again, I think will be really relevant for our listeners. But let's start you off with kind of the first question we ask so many people, which is, you know, catch me up to where you were as you begin your college journey. So as you start to look at Michigan, let's hear about the first 16, 17 years of Kevin's life. Where do you come from? How'd you make that journey?

[6:35] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, absolutely. So I guess if I really thought about it, I've always loved singing and performing, but I think I was the last person to find out. What I mean by that is I grew up playing sports. I didn't sing. I didn't dance. I didn't go to acting class. But that being said, my mom always tells the story that when I was tiny, and I would go into like the bathroom by myself, she'd always just wait and wait and wait and be like, is everything okay? Like, is like, what's happening? And she'd always ask people coming out the bathroom, is there a little boy singing in there? And they'd be like, yeah. And she's like, okay, he's fine. So I guess I didn't realize it, but I've always enjoyed singing. But it wasn't part of my story at all. I played baseball and soccer pretty much year round.

[7:23] Charlie Murphy: Oh, so now you're really insulted by my Broadway show league dig. Now I understand. You may have been hitting most of the ball. It just could be a deceiving photo.

[7:27] Kevin Munhall: It was the all-star game of the Broadway Softball League. So I don't know. You're swinging at everything is what you're telling me. Maybe it was a bad pitch. I don't know. But yeah, so I honestly going to the theater just meant I had to tuck in my shirt and miss practice. So I didn't really like it at all. Flash forward to, honestly, high school, I was playing soccer, and someone slid into my knee and tore my MCL. And so I couldn't play. And I was blessed that just like the most amazing choir teacher of all time, Doug Riney, I was living in Wichita, Kansas at the time. He saw me and he was like, you know, you could like come be in the back of a musical or something. And I was like, I don't know anything about that.

But like, seems fine. Why not? I got nothing else going on. And I showed up and, you know, as much as I've loved athletics my whole life, the culture around it was never a good fit for me. And I showed up to like day one of the musical, we were doing Footloose at the time. And I, yeah, Footloose, I did not have the feet to cut loose. But everyone was just the most welcoming, and so kind. And from moment one, they were like, you're one of us. And I was like, yeah, this feels good. This feels really good. And so I kind of got bit by the theater bug there. But, you know, I was, what, 15, 16 at the time. It was very late. So I never thought that was going to be my career path or anything like that. I was, you know, going to kind of like Unifieds, but for soccer players, like going to showcase tournaments and things like that. But I was also—

[9:04] Charlie Murphy: You have to do monologues as well.

[9:06] Kevin Munhall: Thankfully not. Thankfully not. But because I was living in Wichita, Kansas at the time, there's Music Theater of Wichita. And I was in an IB, International Baccalaureate program at the time. So academics were kind of my thing. I was going to, you know, go be an engineer and play soccer or something. And as part of that program, we had to have a certain number, there was a lot of community service hours. And so one summer I worked backstage at the theater volunteering as like an intern for community service hours. And I feel like so much of my career path has just been having these beautiful guardian angel people look out for me and me just like being fortunate enough to like say yes when they showed up.

And there was a guy who was in directing the show who did like this little fun little workshop for the interns. It's like a thank you for literally working like 12 hour days behind the scenes. And it was Mark Madama who worked at the University of Michigan at the time. And so I sang for him and we did like some improv things and it was fun. And then afterwards, Wayne Bryan, who ran Music Theater of Wichita at the time, he was like, what are you doing after this? It was like the summer after my junior year or something like that. I was like, I don't know. He's like, I know someone who works at a university who's interested and he wants you to kind of come and audition. And I was like, that sounds great.

Can you talk to my parents about this? Because they're not going to understand this or want me to do this at all, which I'm a parent now. I totally understand. I get it. But thankfully, nobody, no one's more restrictive than a theater dad. I'm like, oh, she will not be singing. Let's be clear. Maybe a ballet class and then she's out. Keep going.

[11:10] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So thankfully they had the conversation with my parents. They let me go to some auditions. They're pretty much like, if you audition, we'll just see what happens. So, yeah, I, thankfully I auditioned.

[11:16] Charlie Murphy: Did that mean you weren't doing at that point, like a full list, you weren't doing 15 schools and a full thing or were you? Did you do the unifieds for Chicago or was it like, hey, I'm checking out Michigan, a couple of schools and then I might go back to engineering?

[11:27] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. So I auditioned at the University of Michigan. I sent in a tape to Ithaca. I went and auditioned at Oklahoma City University and University of Oklahoma. Yeah. I think that was about it at the time.

[11:36] Charlie Murphy: I smell this. And how did your parents feel in terms of first the idea of that pivot, if they had their hearts out on engineering and then, yeah. So how did that conversation go as you, as I guess this brave person had this conversation for you because you were too wimpy to tell them yourself. How did it go with them?

[11:53] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. Well, I don't want to give myself too much credit. It could have been anything, could have been architecture, like literally anything but musical theater. Right, right. They thought, oh, he's going to do a productive, normal career. Now it's a waste of his life doing art. Absolutely. You know, I have to give them so much credit because they said yes. You know, they didn't say like I couldn't audition. They knew, I think they probably thought my chances were pretty limited and it was a long shot anyway. So I think they had enough. They really trusted Wayne, Brian at Music Theater Wichita because he's such a good person and because he takes so much time to know people and to care about people first before the performance side of things. And so they knew that these people actually had like my best interests at heart.

[12:33] Kevin Munhall: He has no financial interest in you going into this. He's just saying, I believe in your son. This person has talent. Yeah, that's great. So I was lucky in that sense.

[12:41] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. But then did you do a secondary? Did you apply to normal schools too? Did you think, well, okay, I might get a BA somewhere else if this doesn't work out?

[12:49] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. I auditioned or applied to other schools as well. I think I even visited a few like theater management programs as well. I think at like University of Santa Fe, uh, somewhere in Chicago, a few other, those were kind of like my mom being like, Hey, maybe business and theater, like something, something real. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I didn't really know what any of it meant though. And at that point in my life, I didn't know what I wanted to do to be completely honest.

[13:10] Charlie Murphy: Well, I love, I love, and I love also seeing like, you know, sometimes we talk about the transferable skills and we'll get into Michigan here in a second, but like the transferable skills of learning what it is to be a performer, but also that like the things that made you a good, you know, maybe certainly in some ways soccer player, but a good enough student and IB student who could have gone to these other schools also are still continuing to make you a successful person to this day that you're on this podcast, not just as someone who's a performer, but someone who has built their own business and understands a certain level of science that we're going to get into is like, that like, I do think sometimes people are like, well, it's going to be theater.

And that means all those other things will go away. Go. No, just cause you're doing this thing. Doesn't mean you have to put down those other skills, even if they aren't represented hugely in your college experience. But let's talk about your college experience. How, how was it then in terms of, did you feel, was it the dream? Was it, you know, did you feel like you took advantage of some of those academics that Michigan offers compared to other schools? What was the Michigan experience for you?

[14:10] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. I mean, the Michigan experience really was a dream. I, I feel like I died and gone to theater heaven when I first showed up. I did, I was, I will say everything about my story of like kind of lucking into all of this and you know, getting into all of it very late was like such a benefit for me to a certain extent and then became my downfall and then became the rebirth of what I, what I do now. So I will also say that like my experience there was just feeling behind from moment one of being like, oh, everyone's been doing this forever. Everyone has so much training. Everyone knows what Sondheim is. I don't know who he is. Like truly. You're showing up to Michigan. You've never heard of Sondheim.

Like you, you're not like a musical theater nerd at that point. I was a musical theater nerd to the extent of what was available in front of me, which was like the cast albums I had heard of or checked out from the library or the shows that happened to be happening in the, in my town at the time. You liked it, but you, you were like, you're not like I've done a deep dive on everything and I'm listening to everything.

[15:09] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. No, no. So, but you know, go ahead. How do you become, you know, I talked about the way that athletics may be informed and will inform your, your business as we talk about some of that, but it also seems like you obviously have a natural athleticism that lends itself to dance, but you're not somebody who grew up dancing. You said you didn't have the foot looseness. Maybe that was just, you didn't have a knee working, a working knee at the time, but how do you become someone who's primarily going to then be seen as a dancer? I mean, you're going to work as I'm seeing swings and I'm seeing, you know, a lot of dance heavy shows, you know, you said you just did damn Yankees. I mean, you gotta be able to move a little bit to do damn Yankees.

So how does that happen in college? Is that happening in summers between college? How are you getting to the level of someone who's going to be known as a dancer? If at 16, you, you know, we're standing in the back with a broken leg.

[15:58] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. I would say the only way that I made it to where I was actually is because of the academic background that I had. So I went into Michigan with a ton of credits through IB already. So I looked at what was like immediately available around me. I knew what shows were happening at music theater Wichita during the summer that I wanted to do. I was looking at the shows that were on Broadway at the time and I liked dancing a lot. And even though I wasn't very good at it yet and I was like, I'm going to just like, I have all these extra credits available. So I'm just going to stuff my curriculum with as much dance as humanly possible. Like for example, my senior year, I retook tap one while at the same time being in tap four, just because I was like, I want as much tap as humanly possible.

I don't feel very good about this. And then, you know, my Broadway debut wound up being anything goes. So like the strategy paid off at first, but it really was like me going like, this is the weakest link. I, they've since told me that when I auditioned, like my teachers at the time, my dance score was definitely the lowest. And so it really was just like me having the work ethic from a sports perspective to throw it into, um, throw it into dance. And so it was, it was just like sheer effort and, um, and the opportunity that there were, there were so many different classes available.

[17:14] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. I mean, so often we talk with our students about, you know, leaning into your weaknesses and shoring up your weaknesses, especially in the college process where you go, I've got a year or two for those who didn't, you know, who started or starting earlier, they go, I, if I got this time, I want to see how do I want to be as an auditioner? That's certainly the idea of shoring up your weaknesses. That doesn't always translate though, to, Hey, you will become a dancer. Like sometimes we often say, Hey, get to the point where you go, I feel really comfortable in a dance call. And that's really great. If you're much stronger as a singer, but so exciting that someone who obviously you had a natural ability, if you were able to do it, but that's someone who came in already by 17, 18, and we're not a strong dancer. And then you're going to end up being a professional dancer. Basically that, that is going to be the thing that you're known for. That's, it's really awesome.

[17:53] Kevin Munhall: Um, talk to me a little bit. What was graduating? How did you hit the industry? Sort of give me a little bit of your journey to career success and, and anything goes and all these amazing Broadway shows and non-Broadway shows that you did. Talk to me a little bit. What was the entry into New York in the industry for you?

[18:06] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, it was pretty standard. I had showcase was very fortunate to, that it went well for me. I had a lot of options of representation, signed up with agents pretty soon thereafter. However, what I will say, um, and so anything goes, I wound up getting, I think like six weeks after I'd moved to the city, which is crazy. But, um, that was actually one of the shows that my agents couldn't get me seen for. Um, so I went to an open call for it. And luckily Kathleen Marshall is one of the only people who actually runs their own open calls, or at least she did at that point in time. So she saw me, I came in, I did like six callbacks. I didn't get it. Um, I flew out to do a show to a con in Utah. And then while I was out there, I got a call that Kathleen wanted me to do, uh, bells are ringing with her at encores at city center.

Um, and I was like, Oh, that's amazing. I didn't audition for that. So then I flew back and did that. And then the last, the day after it closed, I went back in for anything goes, uh, and got it. So it was funny. It was really like, uh, it was like a, a tryout and one giant callback, one giant callback. And also, um, I found out later that she had asked a lot of people who I had worked with that she knew at music theater Wichita prior that summer, like, can I hire this guy? Like, is it okay. Um, so just also like throwing out that message that like how you show up and the work ethic, you haven't those regional summer stock gigs sometimes is really the thing that gets you the Broadway show later.

[19:28] Charlie Murphy: I think that's the truth. I mean, it's all network building and that starts, it's already started for the, for the, if you're 16, 17, you go, it's already begun. I mean, you're talking about these people you met when you were 15, but right. That's, that's yeah. That it's not like, Oh, now it's when I want to become professional. That's when I turn on my name and that's when it starts mattering. It's like, no, it's been counting since it's already been counting. It's always time to, to keep, uh, making those good impressions. So then how do you go from show to show? So anything goes, goes well. I mean, was it then lots of, um, joyful jumping show to show? Was it, there's some troughs in there. What was the journey of the, I think you said it was about a decade in terms of the, the, that career before we now turn into this work. Um, talk to me about that. What were those jumps?

[20:10] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. Yeah. So it's funny, like it took me six months or six weeks to book my first Broadway show. And then it took me, I don't know, four years to book my second one. And I, I always tell people like getting, getting a Broadway show means nothing. It literally just means that one team of people said, yes, not be like two people said yes. And that doesn't, that doesn't impact anything else. That doesn't really change anyone else's opinion. And so then, you know, the journey from there, I did that for, you know, the whole run of it. So it was like a year and a half. I did a bunch of regional theater after that. Um, I eventually, I think I wound up going on tour before I went back on Broadway with the dirty dancing, the musical or not the musical, the classic story on stage because it was not a musical, um, did some TV, did smash on TV, uh, got to do some cool.

[21:09] Charlie Murphy: And are you then figuring out your New York life? So, I mean, really, in some ways you would have figured that out while you're in the Broadway show, but then are you figuring out like a day job? I guess some of this maybe lead us to where we're going to, um, to the work that you're going to start, but, but how are you figuring it out? Like, you know, you have this Broadway gig for at least a while as you're still pretty early in New York and you're figuring out where you're living, all that kind of stuff. And then how do you sort of get used to the New York city of it all? Is that more after the show? Are you sort of living on a high? Like how, how did that, um, are now I'm figuring out how to sustain this life, I guess.

[21:37] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. There's two answers to that. Number one, I'll go back to anything goes before I booked that job, the longest I had ever done any show is eight performances and then cut to, I don't know, three, 300. So like I was unprepared for that completely unprepared. Like I had, how could you prepare for it? I mean, nobody, nobody has, you know, if you've any high school, maybe sometimes people done 15, 20, but no, nobody's done 300 until you've done it.

[22:04] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. And, and I, because my greatest skill at that point in time was effort, like how much effort I would throw into everything that I did. I wore myself out so quickly. I didn't understand my nervous system. I didn't understand recovery. I didn't understand what nerves were, anxiety was, I was nervous all the time. And I I've always like the first decade in the city, I was like always a nervous wreck without realizing it. Like from the moment I would get an email from my, from my agent saying I had an audition up until the point it happened up until a week later to like found out whether like the whole, I never took a breath that entire period of time. And so what I will say is that I was doing the thing I wanted to do.

And I was also going, I don't know if I can sustain doing this. Like maybe I've made a bad decision and I wasn’t getting another show and you know, it felt a little bit like, oh no, now what? And I mean, I was very fortunate in so many ways, but like I didn't have a traditional day job. I didn't ever have to do that because I was kind of hopping from other gigs to other gigs for the most part. I did a few things here and there, like some catering here and there. Some events, some like flash mob type things, like performing for like a billionaire's daughter's bat mitzvah, things like that. But not like a traditional job in that sense. So it was a lot, it was a lot of things because I didn't know if I could sustain it. I felt I was always wound up by this thing. I still liked it, but I didn't understand why my voice would kind of freeze up. And it was, it took me a while to kind of figure it all out.

[24:02] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. Well, and so what inspired you to, I guess, first get this training and then we'll talk a little bit about, we'll take a break here in a second to talk about the work itself, but what inspired you then? Was it really about your own personal health? Was this an interest in helping others? What made you go, Hey, I want to get some certification and I want to sort of understand this world a little better?

[24:20] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. Part of it was I had some time in between things. And anytime I had time in between things, I grew up as part of the Baha'i faith. It was like a small world religion. Most people have never heard of, but one of the key tenants of it was always just like a service mindset, like we are here on this earth to take care of other people and to help people. And so I was always like, when I wasn't doing a show, I was always on like New York Cares and just like finding random things that I could go to be a part of. Like I worked at a garden for a period of time. I went and helped build houses for Habitat for Humanity. I worked at like this, this Jewish center on the Upper West Side, like we would.

[27:36] Kevin Munhall: Yes, we were talking about how well I was doing as a dancer and getting jobs as a dancer, but it was always my voice that wasn't showing up the way that I wanted it to. I did all the classes. I went and did all the voice lessons. Nothing gave me the answers of what I wanted, of why I was getting fatigued, why I couldn't sing the notes that I wanted. It wasn't until I did all this work and left the business and started diving into all this that all of a sudden my voice has opened up and now it's doing the things that I wish it could have done earlier in my career. It was really just like my nervous system was a wreck and it was just preventing me from letting my training shine.

[28:18] Charlie Murphy: Now your nervous system's dropping things? That's unbelievable. Okay, so we're going to take a break so we can get a little bit deeper into what some of this work is. I just wanted to comment on that idea of selfishness. I think that is so interesting because I think as performers, I think there is something selfish about training in some ways because it is so self-centered of working on yourself. But of course, the idea is the balance of that is so that you can give it away. So that you can be of service better, you need an element of self-care. I do think there's just so much balance of that in so many things of life of like, are you the person who's always leaning forward and taking care of others and do you actually need to take a little bit more care of yourself?

Though, of course, there also is that sort of image of an actor's like, who is self, always focused on themselves and their own health and their own voice and their own, you know, that's sort of the diva sort of picture that you imagine where you go, but what are you giving? So it's an interesting question for actors of like, how much are we focused on the self versus how much are we focused on others?

[29:20] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, yeah, it's a fine line. And it's always, we're always, there's never an easy balance. We're always one side or the other and it's a dance back and forth, I believe.

[29:32] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. All right. Well, we're gonna take a quick break and on the back end, we're going to dive a little bit more into the specific dance of this breath, stress and performance coaching. So we're back in the flash. All right, we are back with Kevin Munhall. And we're talking a little bit about this. So can you just define specifically now what you do? If I were to work with Habit Disruption, you call it a breath, stress and performance coach, but it seems like also a couple of different kinds of services. Maybe let's focus especially on the performance. If I was coming to you as a performer, like what would I be working on? What is that work?

[30:01] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, it's really two businesses. One's like the whole corporate world. But when I'm working with performers, it is literally helping people understand and overcome performance nerves, performance anxiety, helping people prevent burnout, helping people with recovery, helping people understand their instrument and maybe blockages that they have that are physical tension related or breathing related or nervous system related. So it's part education, teaching people that like in my mind, this work would ideally be primary in all training programs because the nervous system is the lens through which we interpret the world. Every emotion you've ever felt, every note you've ever sung is an expression of the state of your nervous system in that moment.

[30:48] Charlie Murphy: But can you define a little bit just for those of us who are not science majors, what you mean when you say your nervous system? So at some point we had fourth grade science. We talked about it, but I don't know if there's blood and there's breath. What do you mean when you say the nervous system or maybe how breath affects the nervous system?

[31:02] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. So I'm talking about the autonomic nervous system, which there are two branches of one is more the sympathetic nervous system, which people think of as fight flight, you know, a bear's chasing you and your heart's pumping, your hands are shaking, all those things. And then the other branch of it.

[31:17] Charlie Murphy: Signals that your body is sending to your brain. Is that maybe incorrect? This is my fourth grade understanding of the nervous system.

[31:25] Kevin Munhall: Yeah. So it is the connection between your body and your brain. So it is a dance. There is information coming up from your body. And honestly, especially on the parasympathetic side, which is the other side. So the sympathetic on one side, the parasympathetic on the other side, which is more rest, digest. It's dealing with everything that's going to help you feel grounded and calm, helping you with sleep, helping you recover. And honestly, that's like 80% of the information on that side is coming from your body to your brain to let you know how you're feeling. So it really is. It is the connection through which we experience the world. It is a part of the stress system as well. So when you have something that you're worried about or like an audition coming up and your heartbeat starts elevating or if you're able to bring it back down, this is all a dance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic branches of your nervous system.

[32:28] Charlie Murphy: So, I mean, yeah, so many questions and so many different connections that are firing as you talk about that, some of them which are probably too personal for me to say on the podcast. But so for performers, what would this mean? Like I was talking about in the pre-show about Brittany Coleman, who is our most recent guest as we record this, who I know you are friends with a client of yours, told the story of her very first big Broadway audition where she was shaking like a leaf or something she clearly really was. She could feel her body was betraying her in this moment because the stakes were high. What would she do in the work that she's worked? How do I, if I'm Brittany, do I not have that happen?

[33:03] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, I mean, first it's a process. So first and foremost, what I would say is that her body wasn't betraying her, even if that potentially is the experience. But our bodies actually don't know how to betray us. They're not smart enough. They're not smart enough to go, hey, I don't want you to have this audition. So I'm going to make you so what what's really happening is it's just it's just survival in that moment. It's more than anything. It's helping people reframe and understand at a physiological level what's happening rather than the kind of societal narratives we all have around it, which is based in like nerves, which is based in like performance anxiety or stage fright, which is based on like this is a problem that needs to be fixed in order for me to do what I need to do rather than viewing it through that lens, which is what I did for a decade.

It's actually helping people understand what's happening first and foremost. And then once you understand it, which is, you know, just the first step in the process, then you can actually make the correct choices of kind of how to navigate it. Because like, first and foremost, I would say that nerves aren't a sign that anything is wrong. It's literally just a sign that you care and your body is responding. The process of your heartbeat elevating, for example, or your breath getting faster is actually your body trying to give you more fuel. It is sending more oxygen and blood through your body faster so that you have fuel to do something and act and take care of whatever it is the thing that you're worrying about.

So it really is first and foremost that. And then once we have that understanding, then I can give you different mindset ideas of things to think about and different reframing techniques. Then we can talk about using some of that fuel, how to actually take care of it and use it. Then we can talk about shifting your state, which is kind of where your breath comes into. Then we can talk about like cultivating nervous system resilience. So like, how is your nervous system operating outside of an audition scenario? Because who you show up with, the state of your nervous system as a human being is going to determine how well any of these kind of audition tips work in the moment. And then, you know, back, taking a step back from that, looking at more big picture things of like, what is my identity?

What am I actually trying to, what do I really want when I'm going in for this? What am I suddenly looking for? Or like some, all the bigger stories that kind of might be contributing or even causing a lot of these nerves or the shaking of your hands to begin with.

[35:49] Charlie Murphy: It's so cool. It's so cool to hear some of the, you know, some of the audition tips and stuff that we talk about all the time in this podcast, some of that sort of understood from a scientific perspective, or, you know, it's not that there's no science, I guess, already in some of what we're saying, but the, or some of what, you know, we'll say on the podcast, but just understanding a little bit more, definitely better language to some of it. You know, I'm curious, like how much, how much in terms of your work and sort of the way you think about it, you know, if you're in the hallway at an audition, for instance, are you thinking of it as more psychological work or physical work? Obviously realizing those two things are going to impact each other.

Right. But you know, it, when someone wakes up at 4am, because they're nervous or they're anxious, they're feeling, you know, it's like, is it more important that they do a breath exercise? Is it more important that they're doing a psychological reframe? Are those things going together? Like how would you attack? I'm in this moment, you know, not necessarily a moment of crisis, like I'm having a panic attack, but like, I'm in that moment, I'm outside the room. Is it more about what I'm saying to myself and the mantra that I'm saying to myself? Is it about I'm doing a certain breath exercise? What kind of stuff would you recommend to people, you know, maybe you don't have to give them the whole, you know, six hours of work or whatever you'd be doing, but where would you see more of that going? Is it more physical or more psychological?

[37:06] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, it's going to be different for everyone. Truly. I would say what is happening with our breath is kind of a manifestation of everything we've done up until this point in time, our past lived experience, meeting the demands of the present moment in front of you. So I wish there was a simple answer. And I wish I could say like, this is the correct way of viewing it. But the real answer is that sometimes a mental reframe is really helpful for some people. It's like there's a physiological thing going on that needs to be happening. The way that I, the easiest way that most people work with me now is I run this like eight week program that's virtual and online where we go through different.

[39:08] Charlie Murphy: Sometimes it's actually looking at a specific type of breathing technique often. It's taking some larger concepts like the concept of perceived safety, for example, which has a lot to do with whether or not our heartbeat gets into that elevated state, whether or not our breath ends up getting bigger or faster, whether or not we feel the nerves coming on or not. Taking these concepts that have been studied extensively, taking the findings from that, and then putting it into what can I actually do with this? How do I practice perceived safety? How can I cultivate that? How can I get better at interpreting my speeding heartbeat as something that isn't to be feared, but actually something that can be fueling me? Because all of these things have to be actionable at the end of the day. So it's really me taking the research and then finding fit ways to actually explore it that are very performer-centric so that we can actually build resilience.

[40:38] Kevin Munhall: Yep, it's so interesting. Also, if so, like to what extent does a performer need to know? What depth of some of these things? Because like obviously, you might need to understand a lot of it. You're going to help a lot of different performers. I only need to understand my own body really, though. I guess maybe my changing body as I age and everything, like I understand, and you have to understand what works for me. I often felt that way with vocal technique things too, like it is not necessarily true that the people who know the most about the voice are the best singers. Though to some extent, you have to know the most to be a great teacher if you're going to teach all different kinds of voices.

But yeah, I kind of wonder if like what level is useful for me if I'm an 18-year-old performer about to go into my college auditions? Like what level is it useful for me to understand my body in terms of, I guess, what scientific level or what, like, you know? How deep do I have to understand some of these concepts?

[41:38] Kevin Munhall: Not very deep, to be honest.

[41:40] Charlie Murphy: Good answer.

[41:41] Kevin Munhall: You just need to know, I think it's helpful to have a good picture of like what's happening, potentially why it's happening, and then like a few different points of entry of things you can do in different categories to kind of explore it. So I think the first category that you can explore is story. So like the stories that we're putting on top of the sensation. I teach people a lot of different strategies in that category. Then there's actions, like what a story on top of the sensation meaning like what I'm telling myself is happening to me right now. So the story would be in Brittany saying my body's failing me right now is what it feels like.

[42:41] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, exactly. The kind of interpretation of what we're experiencing versus just like the sensation itself.

[42:47] Kevin Munhall: And then there's things in like the action category. Like what can I do physically? Like for someone, it might be that push-up, it might be a plank, it might be something trying to use some of the energy that your body is giving you rather than trying to ignore it and pretend that's not there. So for someone who's been told to do a meditation, but you're literally flooded with all this energy to do something, that can be very challenging in a lot of situations and honestly for most, not the best first thing to do. And then, you know, there are the state-shifting categories, which breathing and breathing techniques are like one of the different things you can do there, but there's stuff you can do, visualizations, different things like temperature, water, all sorts of different stuff in that category. And then coming back to the story usually again, once you've done some of these things has usually shifted because our story is determined by the state of our nervous system.

[43:44] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, it's like the reason why most people get in an argument with their spouse or loved one or partner at, you know, two in the morning and not like over breakfast is there's a good reason for that. You're tired and everything is being viewed through the lens of like you don't have very many resources at that moment.

[44:00] Kevin Munhall: Also, because she's wrong. She's just wrong at 2 a.m. a lot.

[44:05] Charlie Murphy: More wrong at 2 a.m. I think than in the morning. No, that's so helpful. And I think, yeah, I don't know that everybody has a lot of, not that you need to give tips and tricks, but it has a lot of tips and tricks and tools. I should know that maybe in those moments of state shift. I mean, I certainly have had the experience. I was joking with one of the people we just did a private audition with, Moncler, the person who runs Moncler, a friend of mine. You know, we were saying like remembering the different bathrooms at these, you know, that Ripley Greer that we've tried to wipe sweat off our bodies and you're like, you can't tell yourself to stop sweating if for some reason that is a thing your body, if you tell yourself it just makes you sweat more.

But that like experience of being like, oh God, now I'm getting nervous, like, and then I'm like patting my forehead. I'm like, that's just making it happen more and more, but I'm not sure I would have or still would have necessarily what is like the breath thing or what would I do in that moment to calm myself.

[45:00] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, I don't know that many people, young people, have an option where they would go, right, I would do what, do what other than pat myself and yes stress about it.

[45:06] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, the other thing I'll say is that unfortunately, also like most people have only ever explored or tried breathing techniques in the most serious high stakes of situations. Like most people haven't practiced it first when there's no stakes, when they're like literally just sitting on the couch. It's like, okay, I'm literally about to go in for this final callback. Now's the time to pull out this box breath and hope it fixes everything. And it's like literally going back to the basketball idea. It'd literally be like the first time you practice free throws. It's like the fourth quarter of the NBA Finals. Like the reason they have done this, they're able to do it in the NBA Finals because they've done it a bajillion times beforehand.

And so a lot of the work I'm doing is like helping people put in the practice and build these new associations when the stakes aren't high so that when you do need to use these techniques, it's not the first time your body's like, oh, I know what this is. I understand what you're trying to do. Oh, I have the capacity to do this.

[46:30] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, so I said the, you may know this if you're an NBA fan at all, but I know that's true of like Steph Curry every, like in the middle of games, like lowers his heart rate down to like an obscene level. Like he'll be sitting on a bench and he'll be like, he can in a two-minute break just do like whatever. He has some, a very, very strong ability to do that more than other people, which also then lets him play more and that increases his longevity. I'll do something.

[46:56] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, practice skill.

[46:57] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, for sure. I know you work with normal people, non-performer people. So I wonder for our parent listeners, you know, often we kind of end with parent advice. I love to talk about like first, you know, what and how they can apply some of this for themselves or what you would recommend for them as a some way of what a tag-along to this process as for many of our parents who are coming to Unified's and watching their kids rest of this and then also if they're people who go, I think my child could really benefit from this. But of course, my child won't be listening to this episode because it's longer than TikTok. So how could it shoot the good day? Basically, like what advice would you have for the parents in terms of how they can help themselves and how they can help their kids?

[49:02] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, two things I'll say. One is that the primary regulator of our nervous system is other people. So all of these tips and tricks are secondary to the fact that like when you're around people who are grounded and calm and like really sturdy, it's a lot easier for you to be as well.

[50:12] Kevin Munhall: And so, as best you can, if you cannot add fuel to the fire by being all amped up and adding to the pressure of the moment, and honestly, even your excitement, like even in the best intentioned version of it, it's so easy when we're in these heightened states for excitement even to turn into nerves, or to turn into worry or anxiety, just because it's more energy than we are able to properly kind of handle in those moments. So, my tips and tricks would be like, I got one, I'm getting it out of you. Yeah, my tips and tricks, especially for UNIFI's, and this is for the parents as well as for the prospective students, is like, go slow as much as you can on those days. Do not be in a rush. You know, like, we don't want to be doing things to make ourselves super excited before we have to go do the thing.

The other thing I will say is that is not the day for, to rehearse a bajillion times. Like, you've already done all the work, and you have to trust that you've done that work, and spending a lot of energy going over it a million times beforehand is just, it's gonna, you're gonna have less energetic resources for the time when you really need it. So, the slower you can go, make sure you're fueling your body, not just caffeinating your body, but like, caffeine is something that is going to raise your state of arousal. And so, it's easy for us when we are nervous or anxious to interpret anything that's raising our state of arousal as anxiety, as nerves. It's not going to help us to feel more grounded.

So, like, actually, you know, like, eating your protein and making sure, especially when we're nervous, it's easy to not want to eat. And I totally understand that feeling. But like, we are going to need the fuel because stress is very energy intensive, more than anything. So, fueling, going slow. Also, anything we can do to kind of like, bring some levity to the situation is going to be helpful. Like, even in our best efforts to like, self-regulate and do the breathing techniques, it so turns into this like, it turns into something so serious and so hyper-focused, which honestly just puts us into a more sympathetic state anyways, if we're just like, I have to do this right. So, like, you know, letting it be fun.

Like, I know that's a bold thing to say, but letting, as you as the parent, not having to do the thing, like, what can you do to kind of like, help put them in like, a playful, curious, happy state, rather than one that is like, super focused?

[53:00] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. I love, I mean, if we, that's such good advice in so many ways. You did do tips and tricks. You won the pot by not giving tips and tricks, and then you gave some good tips and tricks. No, but so, you know, we also often say it's like, the performer's job to like, walk in the room and have fun. And like, how can you do that if you've been like, serious and stressed in the hallway? So that, okay, go have the most fun right now. Like, it's not like, if you can make the process fun. I mean, we see that, you know, we're there in like, the green rooms, and we're hanging out. And like, the kids who are like, having fun with the whole process, then tend to do really well in the audition rooms, because it's not like, oh, now it's my fun time.

Like, there's a level of focus. So you can't, there's a, if you're so goofing off that you're like, you know, that you are showing up late to your audition, that's a different issue. But like, you have to make that process fun. I love that.

[53:46] Kevin Munhall: And I really love the idea. You have a young child?

[53:48] Charlie Murphy: I have two. Yeah. Five and two.

[53:51] Kevin Munhall: I mean, it really does. I so often, when I was, had a baby, you know, and they would talk about skin to skin, and like, how much you are the, you are the thing that is grounding them, you're giving them literally like, a nervous system, they're borrowing your nervous system, because they can't regulate their own. I think about that in this process for our parents so often, where it's like, there are moments when it'll be back to the toddler, and you will have to, just for a second, you know, lend them your nervous systems, which means the more you can do to keep yours in check, or in good shape, the better.

[54:19] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely. It's so fun. I so love chatting. Anything else that you didn't get in that you wanted to mention anything that you go?

[54:22] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, I know you had six more tips and tricks you wanted to give us or anything else you want to say?

[54:26] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, I mean, no, I, I could, I could talk about this literally forever, because I'm, I'm such a firm believer, because, because of it, it's changed my whole world. And I'm so grateful for all the people who helped me find it. And honestly, now, you know, I went away and did this for five years. And now I came back to performing after five years away. And it's like night and day experience of just like, not only not only has it opened my voice, not only has it like made me like, better, better at auditioning or whatever. But more than anything, it's like brought the joy back to what I do, and made it possible for me to go like, Oh, yeah, that's why I want. That's why I wanted to do this to begin with.

And I think the last thing I will say is that there's so much talk about authenticity, or like finding, finding who you are, or Yep. I was used to buzzwords. Yeah. And in my experience, I think, I think being authentic is just meaning not trying to sing, sing, act, dance, in a way that you think someone wants it to be done. It's like as much as you can, being okay to do the thing the way that you want to do the thing. And that takes so much confidence, confidence to be able to do that. And that takes so much like, like not introspection, but I think it's really rooted in a nervous system that is not trying to please or not trying to get my approval and safety through the lens of someone else liking me.

And so a lot of this work has surprisingly helped me find what I actually like and like who I want to be as a performer and helped me know what's a yes versus I'm going in for this because I should or any of those things. So that's the last thing I just want to say that like, it really is a, I went into it to find the solutions to try and help me do this thing better. And it's amazing how it also, honestly, just like helped me understand myself better as a person, which, you know, always makes you a better performer when you know yourself better.

[56:47] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I love it. Kevin, this was such a great interview. I'm so glad to get to chat with you and learn a little bit more. If people want to hear more, where should they follow you on Instagram is the best way to the website. Where do you like people to find more information?

[56:58] Kevin Munhall: Yeah, Instagram, I'm Kevin underscore Munhall. My website is habit disruption.com. And I have another one of these eight week programs virtually that's starting in February.

[57:09] Charlie Murphy: In February, that's perfect time. I think this is released in January. So that's great. Kevin, thanks so much. Really appreciate the time.

[57:12] Kevin Munhall: Of course. Thanks for having me.

[57:21] Charlie Murphy: Yes, yes, yes. So fun getting to chat with Kevin. You know, he was a stranger to me before this interview. And I'd say I was like, really impressed with both his knowledge. It's a scientific acumen is really impressive. And just his ease and kind of demonstrating some of these concepts he was talking about. I think it's not always easy to develop rapport with a stranger, especially, you know, you're meeting for the first time and you're sort of figuring this out on on zoom. But I thought he was really easy to talk and laugh with and generally very impressive person.

[57:49] Charlie Murphy: Okay, a few quick hitters here. I'm going to skip over the transferable skills and the entrepreneurship I was going to write that down. But, you know, I do think Kevin is another great example of that here. I think you can see it sort of his intelligence and the academic aspects of things that really continue to fuel his career. I think those are really impressive, both as an artist and a business person. But we've been talking about that a lot. So I don't need to dive deep into that. Just another example of, you know, this transferable skills.

[58:13] Charlie Murphy: And this one I wrote down. I'm not sure this is a full takeaway, but I'm interested in the difference of like, nerdery back then back when Kevin and I were growing up versus like nerdery now. You know, just like that idea of him being super into musical theater, but then not knowing who Sondheim was as he entered college. I think that's really interesting. And again, I'm kind of assuming that Kevin is about my age from some context clues. But this was definitely true for me growing up. I guess that's what I'm thinking about. You know, the Internet was like just starting to exist. It did exist. But there was still this idea that like your knowledge was based on what you had access to, right? I mean, I remember literally renting out every CD of every musical and reading every play that was in my local library.

And it wasn't that many. And then I remember being so blown away when I got to CMU pre-college and like the library they had access to. I was so hungry to like read every single play I could get my hands on. And you could take out, I think at the time you could take out 50 plays at once. So I would take out 50 plays, literally 50 plays at a time and like read them all and give them back and then take out another 50 plays. And I was like, I'm going to get through all this. But I didn't actually get through every single play in the library, but it seemed almost achievable and amazing to have this vast resource. But also it wasn't so vast. It was just like what could be in this couple rows of the library.

Right. But I do think with our students today, I think because they grow up and like literally everything is at your fingertips, you just have like so much information and so much expertise thrown at you that the issue isn't about access. I mean, if you're like YouTube itself, YouTube has everything that like a human knowledge somehow exists on YouTube in some form. It's somehow it like does something to the way young people lean in. It's just so much less likely, at least I found it so much less likely for them to be voracious in the way they attack information than it was in my day. And that's really not like a criticism of young people today. I mean, I do really kind of believe we are creatures of the environment we grew up in.

But I do think it's interesting. It's just like the way that they seek information now is very different than the way that we did when I was growing up. It's almost like it somehow feels like a burden to them in the way that like like the Internet, I guess the information itself is a burden to them in a way that like to me, it was magical, like that you could just that you could have access to that information. It was so new and it was amazing. And the idea of Wikipedia was like, what? We're just going to have all human knowledge at our fingertips. But I think there's something about like information overload that just makes students almost shut down today.

[1:00:43] Charlie Murphy: You know, honestly, the close analogy I could think to myself was like with television, like when there weren't as many shows on, I think I used to watch way more TV. It just felt so amazing when we first had access to like streaming and we could download shows. I mean, first it was DVDs, but then we could like watch past shows. It was just like, oh, my God, I'm going to watch everything, get my hands on. And, you know, maybe this is more about me being old and having a kid. But, you know, my first reaction when I hear about a new show is like, no, not another new show. There's too much out there. And so I don't want to watch any of it now. Right. And I find myself watching very little television these days, you know, and sadly, it's something I do hear from students.

I know we talked about the podcast and me trying to release these highlights for you to make it easier on yourself. But I do hear from students many times that they can't handle the idea of an hour long conversation that for them, the idea of an hour long podcast is like super daunting. Luckily, that has not yet happened to me with podcasts and audio books. I do really still enjoy them. But I do think it's a way all of our brains have really been changed by the sort of flash of social media and the way it grabs your attention. It's just it's warped our brains and our ability to sort of consume information in the way that we have. That's not novel or some genius idea. It's just something I think that we're all noticing in the way that we consume information in sort of this instant gratification age.

[1:02:01] Charlie Murphy: OK, that was more of a takeaway than I thought it was going to be. I thought maybe that was going to be a quick hit or you never know. Sometimes we start and it goes in a different direction. I'll try to make this one maybe a little shorter. But I just had that little note. You know, Kevin was talking about the conversation he had with Wayne or the mentor who kind of helped his parents to see that maybe he could potentially pursue this industry. I gave out a shout out to one of my former teachers in our last episode, Joe Domenic, who's now running the program at Seton Hill. You know, I was talking about those like expert instructors and what they can do to help us at a young age, especially if they could bring expertise to you at a young age. But I do just want to give a shout out to those bold instructors like Wayne who do encourage young artists to take this crazy leap. You know, and I always say to parents, it is really helpful.

[1:02:44] Kevin Munhall: I think one of the biggest things that I learned through my training and through my experiences is the importance of breath. Breath is the foundation of everything we do as performers. It regulates our nervous system, it helps us stay grounded, and it allows us to connect with our bodies and our emotions.

[1:03:14] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely. And I think a lot of people overlook that. They think about the technical aspects of performance, but they forget that breath is really the key to unlocking everything else.

[1:03:44] Kevin Munhall: Exactly. And it’s not just about taking a deep breath before you go on stage. It’s about building those habits long before the stakes are high. When you practice breathing techniques regularly, it becomes second nature, and you can rely on it when you need it most.

[1:04:04] Charlie Murphy: That’s a great point. So, what are some of the techniques that you recommend for building those habits?

[1:04:30] Kevin Munhall: One technique I love is the 4-7-8 breathing method. You inhale for four counts, hold for seven, and exhale for eight. It’s a simple way to calm your nervous system and bring your focus back to the present moment.

[1:04:58] Charlie Murphy: That’s a fantastic technique. I think a lot of people would benefit from incorporating that into their daily routine.

[1:05:24] Kevin Munhall: Absolutely. And another thing to remember is that nerves aren’t the enemy. It’s how you perform under pressure that really matters. Everyone gets nervous, but it’s about channeling that energy into your performance.

[1:05:52] Charlie Murphy: Right. It’s all about how you manage that stress and use it to your advantage.

[1:06:18] Kevin Munhall: Exactly. And I think having a support system is crucial. Whether it’s friends, family, or mentors, having people who believe in you can make a huge difference in how you handle stress.

[1:06:44] Charlie Murphy: That’s so true. And sometimes, those “guardian angels” can open doors for you, but at the end of the day, progress comes from saying yes, showing up, and putting in the work.

[1:07:12] Kevin Munhall: Yes! It’s about being proactive in your journey. You can’t just wait for opportunities to come to you; you have to go out and create them.

[1:07:40] Charlie Murphy: And that ties back to authenticity. It’s not about people-pleasing; it’s about doing the work your way, even under pressure.

[1:08:08] Kevin Munhall: Exactly. Authenticity is key. When you’re true to yourself, it shines through in your performance, and that’s what really resonates with people.

[1:08:32] Charlie Murphy: I think that’s a great takeaway for anyone going through the audition process. It’s about finding your unique voice and not trying to fit into someone else’s mold.

[1:09:00] Kevin Munhall: Absolutely. And remember, every audition is a learning experience. Even if you don’t get the role, you’re still growing as an artist.

[1:09:24] Charlie Murphy: That’s such an important mindset to have. It’s all about the journey, not just the destination.

[1:09:48] Kevin Munhall: Yes! And I think it’s also important to celebrate the small victories along the way. Every step forward is progress, no matter how small.

[1:10:12] Charlie Murphy: That’s a great reminder. It’s easy to get caught up in the big goals and forget to appreciate the little wins.

[1:10:36] Kevin Munhall: Exactly. And I think that’s where community comes in. Surrounding yourself with supportive people can help you stay motivated and keep your spirits up.

[1:11:04] Charlie Murphy: Definitely. It’s all about building that network and finding your tribe.

[1:11:32] Kevin Munhall: Yes! And don’t be afraid to reach out for help or guidance. There are so many resources available, and people are often willing to share their experiences and advice.

[1:12:00] Charlie Murphy: That’s a great point. Whether it’s through workshops, classes, or mentorship, there are so many ways to learn and grow.

[1:12:28] Kevin Munhall: Absolutely. And I think the more you expose yourself to different perspectives and experiences, the more you’ll grow as an artist.

[1:12:56] Charlie Murphy: That’s so true. It’s all about being open to new ideas and experiences.

[1:13:24] Kevin Munhall: Yes! And remember, it’s okay to take risks. Sometimes, the best performances come from stepping outside of your comfort zone.

[1:13:52] Charlie Murphy: That’s a great reminder. It’s all about pushing yourself and embracing the unknown.

[1:14:20] Kevin Munhall: Exactly. And at the end of the day, it’s about finding joy in the process. If you love what you do, it will shine through in your work.

[1:14:46] Charlie Murphy: That’s a perfect note to end on. Thank you so much for sharing your insights today, Kevin. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you.

[1:15:16] Kevin Munhall: Thank you for having me, Charlie!