This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Dan Tracy: Dan, should we talk about the Tony Awards?

[0:03] Joe Carroll: I suppose we must as we are.

[0:05] Dan Tracy: I suppose we are.

[0:07] Joe Carroll: Guys Who Like Musicals, and this is a podcast about Broadway. Although we have been banished to the annals of a paywall of a subpar streaming service, so I didn't feel that important at this year's Tony Awards. Did you feel the same way?

[0:25] Dan Tracy: I was truly insulted. And then the views were down. I was like, of course they were. I was trying to explain it, I couldn't figure it out. And then I was trying to explain it to my mother, who loves, you know, like we watch the Tony's together every year since I was a child. And she's like, it's Paramount Plus? And I was like, yeah. But it's on CBS? No. It is? No, it's not. But only for the first two hours. But then it switches. It was so, what are we doing? Of course I don't mean to say that Paramount Plus is a subpar streaming service, but obviously it doesn't have the amount of subscribers as a Netflix or Apple. Paramount is obviously a big organization that has a lot of fancy stuff, and there's a lot of good shows on that network.

But to have to go through those, jump through those hoops and pay to watch the Tony's? Whose idea was that? And somebody posted, one of the theater writers was like, the real celebration of Broadway happened during the Paramount Plus coverage. That felt like more of a celebration of theater and making it through the last 18 months. We'll talk about the CBS broadcast, but there was so much good that happened in that Paramount Plus, CBS Plus, All Access, whatever you want to call it, streaming two hours. There was a lot good that happened. Yes, it was the lowest rated Tony Awards of all time, but of course it was. They chose Big Brother over it. That was, you know, Patty Murin tweeted that too. I'm sitting here trying to watch the Tony's, it's 9:06 and Big Brother is still happening. What, well anyway, if that's not a metaphor for something Broadway related, that reality TV is taking over.

[2:21] Joe Carroll: So an actor is saying his lines, and then out of nowhere he just starts singing.

[2:31] Dan Tracy: 5, 6, 7, 8, and he's alive with the sound of Jimmy.

[2:39] Joe Carroll: Don't cry for me.

[2:41] Dan Tracy: Oh man, well welcome back to Guys Who Like Musicals. We have been busy. Joe is filming. You can catch Joe in Ordinary Joe on NBC on Monday nights if you haven't yet.

[3:01] Joe Carroll: Original Joe, Ordinary Joe. What did I call it?

[3:05] Dan Tracy: You called it Original Joe.

[3:07] Joe Carroll: What a plug, I am just such a pro at this.

[3:11] Dan Tracy: It's whatever, it's subpar average guy named Joe. It's about Joe Carroll.

[3:17] Joe Carroll: Obviously you're not subpar in any way.

[3:21] Dan Tracy: No, I am just another mediocre white dude winning. I'm in it in a show, I can't, that's funny. That's just, anyway.

[3:37] Joe Carroll: Well I'm in Atlanta right now, sitting in a hotel. It's weird to come back to the same hotel and stay in a different room.

[3:45] Dan Tracy: And stay in a different room and it looks exactly the same.

[3:47] Joe Carroll: That's Groundhog Day.

[3:51] Dan Tracy: It looks exactly the same, but it's just, they're all different but they're the exact same layout, the same art. It's very strange, this is a very strange place. That's why we haven't been here because Joe is busy filming his TV show and we're very excited for him and you should watch it. I watched the pilot and it was awesome.

[4:13] Joe Carroll: And I have also been busy just staring at the ceiling, just kidding. No, I've also been busy trying to pay the bills.

[4:21] Dan Tracy: Are you seeing Dan's work on social media with the behind the scenes, the filming of what do you call it, fashion week? You're getting into some high art, my friend.

[4:35] Joe Carroll: Trying to get into that brand hustle.

[4:39] Dan Tracy: It's so good. Trying to get, I watch these commercials sometimes and I'm like, I want to do that. Anyway, that's what we've been doing. Sorry that we haven't been recording. Should we talk about the whole night as a whole or are we going to break it up into first half, second half? Because it was almost like two different shows.

[5:01] Joe Carroll: Because what I was going to jump into was like Audra McDonald could, should host everything from now until the end of time. I thought she was so fun and heartfelt and funny, and she messed up a couple times, which was incredibly real. It's so scripted. All of these award shows are so incredibly scripted, so whenever there's a real human moment, it just feels so good. I thought that she was fantastic. Like when they didn't play the music on Leslie later in the night too, and he was like, what? We're on? Okay, hi there. I thought this was Broadway.

[5:47] Dan Tracy: I thought he was incredible too because the thing about Audra is that it's kind of inside baseball, and I know it's not because obviously Audra has done a bunch of television. A lot of people recognize her from a lot of things, but it still feels inside baseball. Leslie's one of the only few now that is on that A list where he might not be on the top of the A list, but he's up there. People know who he is.

[6:15] Joe Carroll: I would say that he's at the top of the A list, but they still know him from Hamilton. He's still Aaron Burr, which is also crazy that he's done all these movies and all of this stuff, but still he's at the top of the mountain because he's Aaron Burr, which I think is kind of dope. My takeaway from hosts was that I don't know if there's anyone who doesn't know what Leslie did.

[6:39] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I mean it's like Neil Patrick Harris kind of, but Leslie has so much swagger. And to look like that and sound like that and just be like that, I'm so glad that he sang as much as he did because sometimes Audra didn't sing at all in the first broadcast, and I was like why isn't... Now we'll talk about that Wheels of a Dream in a second, but the fact that he sang as much as he did and that he and Nicolette did You Matter to Me, that was some very special stuff. And I couldn't believe that they cut measures out of it.

[7:13] Joe Carroll: I was so mad. I thought that they were messing it up for a second. I was like wait did he just jump a verse? Some producer was like this is a 2 minute and 45 second song, it needs to be 2 minutes and 25 seconds. They cut, unless the conductor forgot the words and the conductor was like just go with it, but it was so fast. I don't know what happened, but he didn't sing the lyric at the beginning. He didn't sing simple and plain and not much to ask of somebody. He sang something else, so there may have been an oops. There may have been an oops in there, I don't know. Or it was just a bit of a rewrite, which would make sense for the broadcast.

[8:05] Dan Tracy: Wow. Anyway, not to focus on the negative, I thought that Nicolette was my favorite Jenna ever, so it was so nice. It's always nice for me to see her getting opportunities for people to know who she is. And let's start from the beginning though, now that we've gotten most out of the way. Danny Burstein wins his first Tony after 7 nominations. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

[8:29] Joe Carroll: And great speech. And after the year he's had, I was just so struck. I don't know him, I know you know him, so I'll let you take the floor here, but I was so struck by how joyful he was. You know he just lost his life, and he's been working for this thing forever, and it felt like he just had this big jolly smile on his face, and I was like...

[9:05] Dan Tracy: Yeah, to have no woe is me. He didn't say I wish Rebecca were here to see this, you know what I mean? Just totally positive.

[9:11] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it was an incredible, I don't even want to say spin, that's not the right word. It was just the way that he handled that moment. That was probably the most sure of the night was that he was going to win. And also, I was thinking about this, Harold Ziegler is not his greatest role without question. If you go back in time...

[9:31] Dan Tracy: Exactly. With King and I, I remember seeing him in South Pacific and seeing him in Cabaret and seeing him in all of these things and just being like oh my gosh this guy's perfect. Adolfo, I mean like crazy. So to finally get the recognition, he's still a role that is amazing and he's amazing in it. It's like running a marathon, that role. That was just the coolest thing. But the way that he mentioned and paid homage to Rebecca, yeah you're right, that's who he is though. Truly that is who that man is. He is the nicest man in show business, one of the greatest guys I've ever worked with. People say that a lot, but it's 100% true with Danny Burstein. It was amazing. The bagels line, anybody who sent a text or sent a message or sent us bagels, everybody in the audience is like I'll never forget. I love being a Broadway actor.

[10:41] Joe Carroll: Wow. Yeah, that's it. There's an op-ed that he wrote.

[10:49] Dan Tracy: I haven't yet.

[10:51] Joe Carroll: He wrote an op-ed for the Times that just came out like last week, and I quoted this. This is from that op-ed. He says, "The stories in Broadway's theaters are a reflection of our nation's soul and have the ability to heal our aching country. What better way to explore humanity's most pressing moral questions than with one of Broadway's most brilliant dramatists? As a young man, I learned about morality from Sophocles and Euripides, existentialism from Shakespeare, racism and prejudice from Oscar Hammerstein and Lorraine Hansberry. I developed a sense of humor because of Kauffman and Hart. I learned about the strength it took to be a father from August Wilson and Arthur Miller. I relived the AIDS crisis with Tony Kushner and Larry Kramer, and I learned the true meaning of joy because of Broadway's greatest contribution to theater, the American musical."

[11:47] Dan Tracy: Like, oh shit. It's true. I just love that man and read the whole thing if you haven't read it, but he is an absolute gift, that man. And I'm so glad that he won. And then he posted on Facebook or on Instagram or something the next day he was just like so grateful I'm so hungover.

[12:11] Joe Carroll: I can only imagine.

[12:13] Dan Tracy: Which is like, if you saw any of the footage from that Moulin Rouge party, you know, I'm sure that there was, let's just say probably wasn't a cash bar.

[12:25] Joe Carroll: Right. And then moving right along, yeah Lois Smith becomes the oldest person to win a Tony Award at 90. I thought gave a pretty good speech. And then Jennifer Holliday, dude...

[12:41] Dan Tracy: You texted me.

[12:43] Joe Carroll: What is happening?

[12:45] Dan Tracy: What is happening?

[12:47] Joe Carroll: I just have to say that performance was never meant to be recorded in a close up, and they cut into that close up way too much. You could even in the wide, it was a different show because they're not like they're very early using microphones at that period in time. She did that show originally.

[13:09] Dan Tracy: Excellent point.

[13:11] Joe Carroll: It was never going to be recorded for television in close up. It's a completely different thing.

[13:15] Dan Tracy: Well, and the one that like we grew up nerding out over and I'm telling you I'm not going, we nerded out over on YouTube from that original production is just like super wide.

[13:29] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's just like...

[13:31] Dan Tracy: But the fact that she can still do that, she sounds flawless, exactly the same.

[13:37] Joe Carroll: Alex, when they said coming up a performance by blah blah blah and Jennifer Holliday and whoever, Alex was like oh my god. I was like what? She's going to do, and I'm telling you, she's got to be 70 something. She's not going to come on the Tony Awards and just do the act one closer from Dreamgirls. She's not just going to do that.

[14:11] Dan Tracy: Alex was like yeah you're kind of right. And then she comes out in the same outfit and there's the guy, and it just was like jaw on the floor. But Alex was dead because she has the same tics in her mouth, like the way that she manipulates vowels and gets things going, it's exactly the same.

[14:29] Joe Carroll: The tics and the whole thing. That's the kind of stuff that you would never, you couldn't do a pro shot of that today, you know what I mean? That doesn't fly on Broadway anymore, but it's a different style and I imagine is a different experience.

[14:44] Dan Tracy: It's from In the House, which you could tell because everyone was on their feet the whole time.

[14:50] Joe Carroll: Right, right. So that was incredible. Yeah, I mean, it was just I thought that the performances overall were really, really great. Honestly, a bit of a hot take. I don't I didn't love "Move On" with Ben Platt and Monique Noni Rose. Like, love them both to death, but I was like, something's not that one didn't lock in for me. Everything else really locked in. And I thought that was one that I was like, I don't know if I totally agree. It didn't bother me. I just love the song so much. It didn't bother me.

[15:25] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I just think that Ben Platt is in an uphill battle against his own fame right now. I just think he's got like a tough go. People are giving him a hard time, you know, and like, yeah, you know, and like, yeah. We'll see how that shakes out as far as how people remember this whole quote unquote controversy. While there are real controversies happening in the industry, you know, people being mad at Ben Platt for wanting to play the lead role in the show he originated. You know, we'll see how that plays out eventually. But I don't know. I think she's amazing.

[16:06] Joe Carroll: Me, too. I didn't mind it.

[16:07] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Adrian Warren's Tony performance was the star of the show. And also, actually, before we move on from Danny, like the Moulin Rouge performance was unreal. Getting to do it in the theater is, yeah, it's the best thing that ever could happen. It's got to be the move. I also, though, that the performance of the night for me was the Daniel J. Watts. Yeah, the slam, you know, his poetry with that choreography. What is silent? You know, what is your silence sound like? Like I was just like I was floored. I've watched basically all of his videos and the virtual jams and all of the stuff that he's released over the last year. He's really good friends with Nick Blamire, friend of the pod, who, you know, they've written shows together and they're writing partners on things.

And I'm like, he is just he is a gift. That man is a gift to the theater. And again, one of these people who like Alex, he and Alex did one reading together like a million years ago and still like goes up to where, you know, calls her by, you know, remembers her name. You know, like he's just like he remembers people's names. He is he's a, you know, just, you know, comes from the ensemble, comes from, you know, dancing and choruses and is just like an amazing performer. And I can't wait to see where he goes and what he does in his life and career, because he's so creative that like, yes, he should be. You know, he's like, you know, recurring roles on Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and all sorts of things, but like also like that type of meaningful stop the Tony Awards live on CBS, like I'm going to make you all this is what's happening in our world right now.

[18:07] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I love that. That was really cool. You know, in the world where every day we're reading about another young person from a unique background who's getting an overall deal somewhere. I want him to get an overall deal. And I know he and Nick have been pitching shows. And I know. But like, I don't know what it's going to be, but somebody needs to see that that guy, that man needs an overall deal so that he can pick and choose what happens. You know, if you know, if you don't know what that is, write him up, give him a blank check. It's basically a blank check from a studio to make stuff. And very few. That's like the pinnacle of being a producer creator is getting an overall deal. And they should just hand one to him, whatever he needs.

Give it. Yeah, exactly. You know, just give it to him. Just give it to him. And somebody who's involved in Broadway, too, should should get involved like, you know, a Jeffrey Seller or a Kevin McCallum should see that and be like, let's work something out and finance this, because clearly the man has his pulse on where things need to be going.

[19:09] Dan Tracy: Right. Right. So that was super cool. That was super cool. But yeah, I mean, you know, another positive and then we'll get into obviously there's a lot of controversy this year. But I was really happy to see the Moulin Rouge crew take it down. I feel really happy for having members who's also, I think, like gotten the short stick on some other projects. And you pointed that out to me at one point that like it may not be that Moulin Rouge is his best work of all time. But, you know, I think we have to recognize the overall impact of an artist. Which is kind of what they got to, you know, and Danny and, you know, I think that it is it's the overall impact of an artist. I think that's really well put that, like, you know, I think that he won a Tony Award for Here Lies Love last night, you know, like that, you know, it was it was or or bloody, bloody, you know.

Right. Bloody, bloody. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and so and again, like truly one of the nicest dudes on the planet, like just a wonderful man. And then, you know, just to have have a rich, you know, having worked on the development of that show from the workshop through the Boston production. You know, I got a lot of friends over there still. And just to see them take it down, you know, I hope that it runs for 20 years. And it seems like it was really it was definitely got it looks like it has kinky boots legs on it now, because now that everybody's seen that it's going to be the show that everybody wants to take, go to a date to see Moulin Rouge. You know, it's like a fun night in the theater, a little bit of escapism that we all need.

[20:50] Joe Carroll: Yeah. So that was very cool. That was cool. It was cool to see Kenny Leon up there for a speech. Yeah. He gave a great speech, which I think, you know, you know, calling Brown and Taylor by name and calling George Floyd by name and just also one of these people who is trying to push things in the right direction. And that's cool. And I'm getting to do a workshop with him next week. And that was also really cool to, like, see that and get the sense that people are excited about what he's doing. Little bright spot, personally.

[21:28] Dan Tracy: Definitely, definitely. Broadway Advocacy Coalition winning that Tony Award. For sure. We attended all other seminars in the past year. Kenny spoke at that first one, that big one. Yeah, yeah, he did. And, you know, the work they're doing is just incredible. Britain was it was just such a great speech that he gave. And that was so that was really a cool they do that. Would they do that with, you know, theater educators? Obviously, there was that, you know, it feels like every other year for some reason, Carnegie Mellon gets a shout out for theater educators. But like, I think that the activism, the organizations that that are activists, you know, that are leading that charge should be recognized.

I think that that I hope that this is just the beginning of that where, you know, it's not just regional theaters that get a Tony Award. It's not just like special productions that get a Tony Award. It's not, you know, you know, colleges or whatever that like, you know, these places that are trying to make a more equitable workspace and a more equitable Broadway deserve to be recognized. And so that was really cool to see. It was definitely cool.

[22:25] Joe Carroll: And then on the tail end of that, one of the original founding members is Adrienne Warren, and she finally got the Tony that she deserves for this, you know, and she didn't win the Olivier. She lost the Olivier.

[22:35] Dan Tracy: Oh, I didn't realize that. Who did she possibly lose?

[22:41] Joe Carroll: She lost the Olivier to the woman from Carolina Change. And if Carolina Change had played, there was this controversy of like, is Tina, is she going to lose to this woman again? But then obviously, Carolina Change didn't open. And so now she's clearly the front runner and she better win. And she does. And she gives just this, like, really nice speech. And she grew up with our friend RJ. And we know, know of her and how hard she works. And obviously, you were able to see it in her performance. So that was good to see her win.

[23:15] Dan Tracy: Yeah, but we got to talk about the reunions. And I just have to say really quickly that it was a little bittersweet to me.

[23:23] Joe Carroll: Yeah. And I don't know if anybody like I don't know if my opinion really matters, but part of me was like. We can't show any of the shows on Broadway's performances to get people excited about the theater that is coming slash will be we have to go 20 years into the past to relive a time when, you know, oh, with the duets, it's like people only know three shows. I mean, ragtime, I guess at least they did a ragtime and it wasn't. I can't think of another show from that era that is that is like one of the handful that people name. But yeah, yeah, it was really nice to see Adina and Kristen perform together. And I loved it. And I got choked up when she got choked up. And that stuff really gets to me.

Like me, too. That song in general, but also just like the meta of the show. And it's like, the meta relationships that characters and people are having gets me always. So I knew that she's having experience and I'm having experience because of it. Somebody on Twitter was like, I think that Kristen and Adina worked through some shit up there.

[24:38] Dan Tracy: Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, like, because there's all that. Exactly. It was almost like an apology. I just got chills. Yeah. It was like something was happening.

[24:47] Joe Carroll: Absolutely happening up there. Yeah, no, I'm with you. Like there's just like, you know, there should have been more of a celebration of what is going on right now. Like where are. Yeah. Like take us into the theater at Six and into the theater at Come From Away. Yeah. Into the theater at these places that like, you know, these shows are going to, you know, Diana, whatever is going to happen with that. Like these things, these shows are opening and need need butts in seats like right now.

[25:16] Dan Tracy: Right. And it was almost like they made the choice to say, well, people aren't going to tune in. They don't care. Let's you know what I mean? It just was a weird thing to. It was weird. It was weird. I don't know. But I just had to say that because ultimately, like I was texting you, I can't believe that Adam still and Anthony still sound that good.

[25:41] Joe Carroll: I yeah, they sound the same. They sound exactly the same. And I know we just had Adam on the show and I'm thinking to myself, he's talking about how much vocal work he's been doing. And I'm like, yeah, OK, buddy, you know, in the back of my head, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thinking about how little vocal work I've done, thinking like there's no way like, you know what I mean? Just like kind of being kind of being a little bastard about it. And then he gets up there and does that and the B flats are just cleaner than they've ever been in his life. Wow. And the two of them right off the. Yeah, it was it was truly amazing. Followed by Audra and Brian Stokes Mitchell, who made every man in our generation wish that we never chased Aaron and Jeremy and should have just stuck with being baritones because he's such a badass. I was like, man, I wish I had that resonance.

[26:37] Dan Tracy: I know it's like no one, no one. Hopefully it inspires the next generation of like writers and singers that like there will be no there will be no tenors, maybe.

[26:49] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I mean, or at least not only tenors. Right. Exactly. Exactly. But like listening to him again, also, they sound they sound better, like they sound different. Yeah, I think like still the same, still great. I would say even even richer. I mean, like his impossible dream and like. Yeah. And then and then doing "Wheels of A Dream" just like. Oh. God damn it, that show, I do wish that they started from the beginning of the song, though the very beginning, I was like, no, don't know. No, I needed I needed it. Yeah, come on. I know. I know. I know. Me, too. Me, too. And then they and then they say, and we'll be right back for the finale. And I turned to Julia. I was like, that wasn't the finale. What are they doing? How are they going to top this?

[27:48] Dan Tracy: Right. Right. That wasn't the finale. Unbelievable. And then it wasn't. Come on. And the finale wasn't as good.

[27:56] Joe Carroll: I know. It's really like a dud. Oh, it was a dud. And it was like, you can't. You know what was crazy? Do you remember? I think it was at the Academy Awards where Utkarsh did the recap. They did do a recap. It was within the last year where Utkarsh from Freestyle Love Supreme did a breakdown of the thing, but by himself. He just got up there and did it all by himself. And it was so unbelievable because it really did feel like it was off the cuff because like it was like he was referencing all of these things that just happened. But he was also freestyling. He was truly freestyling.

[28:34] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Freestyle Love Supreme got up there and did a performance that there were lighting cues. There were sound cues. Yeah. That's not, you know. It was more like sketch where than improv where it was like some. Yeah, it was more of sketch and it was funny. There was some really good bits, but yeah, but like that was rehearsed and. Which I think we would have given them credit for had the like freestyle jokes hit harder, but it was like they didn't take. They didn't go from like A to B to C with any of the jokes or anything. There was like a couple of funny callbacks, but not right. You know, and who am I? I can't obviously can't do any of the things that they did, but yeah, I know. I know. I think, you know, I don't know if you saw the cutaway to Kerry Butler and Jesse Tyler Ferguson sitting in the audience watching Brian Stokes Mitchell and Audra McDonald sing "Wheels of a Dream" and he's clutching his pearls and she's.

[29:28] Joe Carroll: Her hands are like clasped together firmly, and she's bawling down her mask, like shoulders curled together in almost a ball, and I'm like, I am them. To then just, Freestyle Love Supreme is just never gonna, you know? I know. I know. It's just not what they do, and I get what they were trying to do, but yeah, that Wheels of a Dream, like that is just, that was unbelievable. That was unbelievable. Also, I think that we have to, we'll talk about Jagged Little Pill, because there's a lot going on with that show, but Elizabeth Stanley just had a baby. She is like, she had a baby like a month ago. Because I was gonna say, when we saw Heidi, we did a shoot with Heidi like six weeks ago, I guess, or so, and we were talking about how she was pregnant, so I wasn't sure if she was about to have the, she must have just had it.

She just had that baby, and she is, she was up there screaming for the freaking heavens, you know, belting for Jesus, and so just shout out to working moms, man. Like that was, I'm like, holy shit. The things that they ask of mothers in our industry is insane, and I think it's really cool what they're doing, which Heidi was able to share with us when we saw her, that she's playing, they're splitting the role so that Elizabeth doesn't have to work eight times a week as a brand new mother in this new show, which is something that has never happened before. Yeah, like true, true maternity leave. She's getting like a leave from the show, and then she gets to come back, and she's gonna do a couple a week, and then she's gonna kind of work back towards it.

It's just great. I just hope that, I hope that more shows take notice. Because obviously the mother who's getting to fill in needs the work, you know. We shouldn't be asking these things of people. These, you know, and the industry as a whole needs to work on that, and obviously we're not going to get into what's happening in the Screen Actors Guild and IATSE, but you know, that's also part of it. There's also a movement in the strike that might happen with the television and film world to not do 10 of 12s. So it's all kind of lumped into this like work-life balance conversation that we all need to kind of re-evaluate. Should we be doing eight shows a week or not? You know, like what should we be doing here? And this is a positive step in the right direction that's worth pointing out, because I think it's awesome.

[32:06] Dan Tracy: Yeah, me too. And then, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Joe and I wanted to point everybody toward the, you know, to read about and understand like what's going on with Jagged Little Pill. Essentially there are two major issues happening at Jagged Little Pill, and one of them involves Michigan graduate Nora Schell, and a health and safety issue, as well as this issue with Lauren Patton. And again, nobody cares what two cis white guys have to say about this issue, so I'm not gonna sit here and provide you with what I think, but I'm just, we can, all we can do is kind of point you in the direction of the controversy so that you have some context when you see these comment sections of some of these posts, because it's getting crazy.

It's getting crazy on Twitter. It's crazy on Instagram. If you read comments, like recently Lauren had to, she turned the comments off on her post about the Tonys because she didn't want to get flack from people, and then people are giving her flack for doing so. So it's getting really crazy, and in case you don't know what's going on, basically with Lauren out of town, her intention or hope was to have the character of Jo be a non-binary character, and then when they brought the character to Broadway, that was eliminated, and instead they had the character basically being a cis lesbian character instead of a non-binary character. There's a really good Deadline article here if you just want to google it about kind of like, and you can read all of the details, but that's the gist of what's happening there.

So a lot of people are saying that there's erasure of, you know, this character and that she shouldn't have been playing it in the first place, so that's kind of one side of it, and then obviously her side is like, well, she was hired to play a role. She thought she was doing the right thing. I don't think she meant to harm anyone. There was not, you know, I assume that, but that maybe I shouldn't assume that. Maybe that's also part of the issue here. So it's a really complicated thing there, and then obviously the other issue is this health and safety concern that ex-cast member Nora Schell, who's also actually a non-binary identifying actor and Black, was making their Broadway debut in the show, and they approached the creative team because of a medical issue involving ovarian cysts and they requested time off and were told that they couldn't. So that's a really complicated, dangerous thing that Equity has opened an investigation into. So if you start hearing about the show being investigated, I think people are lumping together two issues.

[35:07] Joe Carroll: Right, right. One is this issue about a character in the show. That's not what they're investigating. What they're investigating is this work safety issue with a cast member, because that's obviously incredibly problematic. If their doctors were telling them to get the surgery and they were not able to because of some decisions that were made, that's obviously a really big issue that needs to be dealt with. So I've seen a couple people clumping those two ideas together, saying that, oh, well, they're being investigated for how they're treating trans characters in their show, and that's not what they're investigating. So just there's a lot going on here, and it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

[36:29] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah, because we really are at a time where the conversations about representation and who gets to play whom and who should play whom and how that plays out, like the conversation has never been more at the forefront. And, you know, and I think like Joe said, like I have thoughts about it, but straight, cis, white dude, who gives a shit? Like, you know, it doesn't fucking matter. Like, it's just hard. It's hard to watch. It's hard to read. But like, it's incredible. It must be unbearable to live as someone who has to deal with that in their life. So, yeah, just worth checking out. And then somebody else just left the show, too. One of the there's the other guy, Capriani. I forget. Yeah.

But Antonio, who plays Phoenix, announced on Sunday that the Tony performance would be his final performance of that show. And sure enough, Monday morning, the breakdown went out for his role. So it didn't sound like he had told anybody. Crazy. That was on the back of former cast member Celia Rose Gooding, who was obviously in the audience because she was nominated and performed because in the show. But she is not in the show. She did not return to the show as either. She left and is in this new Star Trek series, Star Trek Strange, Stranger Worlds. So she's got gigs.

[37:32] Joe Carroll: But she's got gigs. That's a lot going on over there. That's a complicated theater space. There's some stuff going on. So, yeah, I just have to say, though, too, about the Tony Awards in general, that like it was a weird it was a weird fucking night in general to to watch it, to be have have an experience with a show that I'm now no longer a part of, like go the distance. Go the distance to not have worked in 18 months, to not have any theater on the horizon that is truly like auditioning, because all of these people are going back to work. Congratulations. Y'all have jobs on Broadway that you that you had in February and now y'all going back. I get it. That's great. But, you know, we're sitting on the couch, you know, it's painful to watch. It's it's painful and joyful at the same time. You know what I mean?

[38:36] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I think it was definitely a weird moment to watch, like, you know, on social media, people at after parties like masculists celebrating. And you're like, you know, as somebody who doesn't have work, we're not out of the woods, I can't get work unless I test negative. So it's like it just is a whole the whole experience is just so bizarre because it's just such a different time. And it's like to say Broadway is back when most of the theaters around the country can't open or will never open again. You know, it's just the whole thing is just very was was definitely challenging for me.

[39:25] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I'm having an interesting fall with it. Yeah. And everything. No, totally, totally. So we I want to I just want to bring that up, too, that like it is joyful, but it's like I it's you're so right. It's not that Broadway is not back yet. We have not like these shows. Hamilton's been open for two weeks. We don't even know if any of those people have have covid. And if they do, what do they do? And is it going to stay open like our like talk to us in six months, you know, like one of the cast members at Waitress had covid before they opened and someone had to come in and emergency replace them and they were not in the show for two weeks. Like if you're in the position to be in the show and get cast in the show and then you get sick, it's OK.

But if you're on the outside looking in and you don't. Really proud of myself for that was horrible. Oh, I love it. When you're on the outside looking in the second time, tap, tap, tapping on the glass, tap, tap, tapping on that glass, waving through a window. And the way it works is like I need a negative covid test in order to get any job. So I'm on hold for two jobs like need a negative covid test or I can't get the job. Same thing with the workshop I'm doing next week on Friday. I have to have a negative covid test or I'm out. So when people invite me to these Tony parties, I'm like, nah, right, right. My one activity is playing golf with my friend Joe. That's about it. Right. Outdoors, family, outdoors.

And yeah, and even seeing families. Yeah, no, totally, totally. And it's the same thing over here. I mean, you know, I, you know, ordinary Joe is the same way. Like I have this great TV job. I'm super duper grateful if I get if I test positive, it might be easier for them to just write me out of that episode. You know what I mean? So like it's it's hard, but I think it's a crazy time and it was nice to celebrate, but it was also it was also bizarre. And I feel like a lot of people felt that way. And I saw a lot of people on Twitter being like, hey, if you if you're feeling anything other than just total joy about the Tony Awards, like I'm with you and your feelings are valid because this is a strange time.

[41:46] Dan Tracy: Yeah. But that wheels of a dream. Fuck. I know. So thank you for listening to this rambling nonsense about the Tony Awards. Joe and I appreciate it. We got a ton, a ton of guests coming up, all sorts of cool stuff happening. Don't get it is exciting that Broadway is back for that reason, because that's very maybe can get some people back in here who are actually excited to talk about stuff. And now because we're working with Broadway Podcast Network, we get these fancy emails. That's like such and such PR person is interest. Do you guys want to have an episode with someone? And we're like, oh, OK, OK. Yes. Oh, us. Yeah, I could be available. I think I could be available basically whenever this. Yeah, this used to be a little production like in, you know, my apartment in Chelsea.

[43:29] Joe Carroll: Exactly. Don't go listen to the episodes. Oh, God, we should probably go back now. No, it's all good. It's all good. But thanks for sticking around with us. Thank you. We got some more stuff coming for you. And shout out to Jillian Hirschman for listening and being our number one fancy listener. Number one, maybe maybe number two behind my mom. So she's probably number three behind your mom and my mom. So my mom doesn't listen. So she's above my mom. Don't don't. I don't want to be.