This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Adam Pascal: I'm glad I showered. Jesus Christ. My freezing cold shower. I'm doing that now. Do you guys take cold showers? No. I always was like, don't be a piece of shit. Don't take a cold shower. You don't want to be that kind of person. And then I started doing it. I feel great. I'll be honest with you. I'm sure it does work. I have no doubt that it works. I honestly, like, I just don't want to experience that sensation. I don't like that. Like, I don't like, you know, but I, you know, there have been times in my life where I've done like, you know, the hot, the really cold to really hot kind of dip back and forth. And then there was one time, I think it was like, maybe two years ago, where I did one of those cryotherapy things where you, you know, but it wasn't the kind where, if you've ever seen them, we're like, you're sitting in a pod and your head is sticking out of it. It wasn't like that. It was literally like going into a little closet that was like 110 below zero. And you stood in there naked for two minutes. It was insane. It was the craziest thing I ever did.

[1:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I couldn't do that. See, we're talking like cold shower, like, like jumping into a cold pool and then eventually it gets warm. That's what's interesting. But you just tell yourself, we can do hard things. We can do hard things. This is my new mantra. We do hard things. That's what we do. We get in a cold shower and then that's how we start our day. It's going well.

[1:19] Adam Pascal: I'm sure it is. I envy you that you are able to do that. Well, you know, I'm pretty much a big deal. So this is a good way to start. I like it. Joe and Dan, Joe and Dan taking cold showers with Adam Pascal. Well, put that on a headline. Here we are.

[2:03] Dan Tracy: So an actor is saying his lines and then out of nowhere, he just starts singing. Well, we're so excited that you're here. Thank you for coming in and chatting with us this morning. I wanted to just jump into what you're you have a show coming up next week. And so we heard about this. We're going to nerd out about your entire career and all of the cool stuff. But what is this show? What's going on with this show you're doing next week?

[2:27] Adam Pascal: So this is an acoustic retrospective of my career. It's a show that I started doing live, you know, before the lockdown. I was doing it for about a year or so prior to the lockdown. And it seemed like a good type of project to try and put out there during the lockdown. It was because it's just me, you know, it's just me and my guitar and I talk to the audience and I tell stories and I talk about my experiences, not even necessarily in the show itself. But I talk about like where I was in my life during a certain show that I was in or like, and I try to tie it all together. I talk about how I got into doing musical theater, which is a pretty unorthodox way, you know, and so and that and, you know, and so I and I take people chronologically through, you know, starting with Rent and my audition for Rent and then and it goes up through Pretty Woman. And so and also look, it's taken 25 years for me to accumulate enough shows on Broadway that I could put a show like this together and have like a solid, a solid hour of material to, you know.

[3:30] Adam Pascal: And so but so what I did with with the version that's coming out next week is I filmed it in my apartment that I was living in in Vegas. Right. And I so I set up like three cameras and by cameras, I mean, iPhones, you know, but but 4K iPhones, like, yeah, I mean, like super high depth. And and I shot the I shot myself recording all the songs live. It's all live. I've got like a studio mic in front of me and I'm just playing and singing and we recorded it on these three cameras and it's nice black backdrop and whatever. And it looks great. But then I was like, how am I going to do the other stuff, the other part of the show, which is talk to the, you know, talk to the audience and tell these stories that are very much a part of the show.

It's not just about the music. And and so I really didn't want to just talk to the camera that that seemed kind of stale to me. It didn't seem like that that would translate in the way that I wanted it to translate. So as luck would have it, a buddy of mine, Jared Emick, Tony winner, Jared Emick, lives in Vegas. And and I was living in Vegas at the time. And so I called him up and I said, will you do me a favor? Come over. I'm going to set up these cameras and we'll have a couple of beers and I want you to interview me. And that's what he did. And and it worked out great. It was perfect because I needed somebody to talk to somebody to tell, you know, not just the amorphous, you know, void of looking into a camera, but I needed an actual person to sort of play off of.

I mean, it ends up working out great. And so and that's that's the show. That's what everyone's going to see. So it is live performance. You know, the music is recorded live. There's no trickery. And and and then it's just me and Jared talking interspersed.

[5:15] Joe Carroll: Oh, my gosh, that sounds awesome. That sounds super cool. That sounds like it's like, you know, these are the things that the productive nature of the pandemic where people are like doing things like this and, you know, it's very inspiring.

[5:30] Adam Pascal: Well, thanks. You know, I did I did a number of things during the pandemic to varying degrees of success, you know, because because well, because they're all experimental, you know, like this podcast. And I some good stuff came out of that, you know, and I just mean stuff that will carry on, I think, into the future, certainly for me. But a lot of stuff I never want to see again. You know what I mean? Like like the virtual musical stuff, like I was so grateful to have those jobs and I had so much fun doing them and making them. But I don't ever want to do that again. You know, that's not something that I was, you know, so it was an interesting experience in that it was like, oh, this works great. This was fun. And I would do this again. This no, never again.

[6:12] Joe Carroll: Right. Right. Right. I just did a lot of staring at the wall. I feel like sometimes I look back and I'm like, it's August. Oh, man.

[6:17] Adam Pascal: I do that, too. I did that, too. You know, I did that too. I stare at the wall. I stared at my iPad for months and months on end. You know, I can't watch any more Family Guy. Although I do. But I, you know, like I can't I can't watch any more of these shows that, you know, I've watched out, honestly, like people are like, you need to watch. I'm like, don't don't go any further. I'm not watching it. Whatever you say, I'm not watching it because I can't watch anymore. My fucking eyes hurt from staring at the screen like my whole life. That being said, you should watch White Lotus. It's really good.

[6:55] Joe Carroll: Why not? Yeah. Yeah. This is White Lotus. White Lotus is turning into that the new thing where it is that one of those shows that it's like if you're not watching it, oh, you're not watching White Lotus. And I'm not watching it yet. And I talked to Dan 400 times a day. He's like, you've got to watch this show. And I mean, you know what? I'll watch what I want. All right. When I want to watch it. What's so special?

[7:16] Adam Pascal: Yeah. What's so special about this show that everyone has to watch it? What's so special about it? Just just Rockstar cast. And in the pilot episode, the first thing that happens is that you find out that someone died. So they start in the future at the end of this vacation. And then after the cold, after the credits run, they take you back to the vacation at this beautiful resort in Hawaii where you know something's going to fall apart because someone's going to die. And now we're five episodes in. We still don't know who's going to die, but something's going to happen. So it's just you're kind of waiting for something to happen, but it doesn't live in a place that's too dramatic. It's very, it's very much a dramedy and all star cast. So, OK, that's the sell.

[8:01] Joe Carroll: Sounds terrible. Have you guys ever heard of the show Dark, the German? I think it was on Netflix. It's called Dark.

[8:09] Adam Pascal: No, that was a really amazing show. Like I don't I don't and I'm not saying you should watch it. I'm just saying, like, I was really surprised, like somebody had recommended to me and it was during the time when I was watching shows and I got so into it. It's fascinating. Like it's such a good show. It's just like check out what it's about. And it's it's just like a total trippy, you know, mess with your mind kind of time jumping. And again, it's I mean, you could describe it similarly to what you just said. Rockstar cast, all these people. But but it's in German. And so, you know, it's subtitles. You have to read it. But it's just.

[8:42] Dan Tracy: Dan doesn't know how to read.

[8:49] Joe Carroll: Dan, can I can I can I ask my my question? Can I just want you to know that I'm nervous, but you can do it. It's not it's actually it's it's not actually a question. It's it's a story. And I mean, we Dan and I both are just massive fans of yours and your career and everything. I mean, so much of what we love about musical theater came from the shows that you you built. And, you know, I we love I mean, Rent, we've talked about it so endlessly on the show and we'll get to that, I'm sure. But Aida, I have this crazy Aida story and I've always wanted to meet you because I just wanted to I wanted to just like share this with you. And I was hoping that we get to meet at some point. So I grew up in Chicago and I saw Aida out of town in Chicago in 1999, 2000. Right. Yes. Yes. It was probably. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, yeah, we celebrated the millennium, I think, in Chicago, if I'm not mistaken.

[9:50] Adam Pascal: Yeah. So so my I grew up in a Western suburb and my mom used to take me to like everything that would come to to Chicago, the Goodman, Steppenwolf, the whole thing. And so we she gets tickets to this new out of town try out of of this musical called Aida. And, you know, we know nothing about it. And it was so exciting to see something, you know, to know nothing. I mean, I'll never forget sitting there watching written in the stars with the star backdrop with, you know, being like, how did they do that? You know, that sort of thing. And it was the night in previews when the tomb went up and crashed to the floor.

[10:31] Adam Pascal: You were there that night in the audience that night.

[10:36] Joe Carroll: Oh, my God. I mean, dude, that's fascinating to me because I I'm so excited to hear your perspective because clearly that was a huge event in my life. And I tell this story all the time. I've been telling it every, you know, you know, I talk about it all the time because it almost fucking killed me. So like, yeah, you know, I just I I wanted to I want I mean, I want to hear your perspective as the person. So basically, I mean, I've told the story on the show before, but if people haven't heard it. So at the end, when Rodney's and when you and I are buried together, buried alive in previews, the tomb you guys entered, you know, they throw you in the tomb together. And when I saw it in previews, the tomb rose up like 15, 20 feet in the air over the stage.

And I'm sitting there watching it and I'm sitting next to my mom. And you're and I was hearing you could kind of hear something. I remember this like so sort of viscerally. And then something snapped and the tomb crashed 20 feet to the to the stage. And I will never forget. So like I was I was young. This happened. You guys, the thing crashes to the floor. You guys roll out onto the stage and the curtain comes flying in. And the you know, and truly, I've never heard it before in my life. Is there a doctor in the house over the over the over the speaker? And my mom just grabs my hand and we we bolt and we just like head out because she was like, I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah. And I don't want my you know, I was young at the time.

So, you know, she dragged me out of there. But we're in the car on the way home and she goes, I'm flashing back to this. She goes, did you see Adam Adam Pascal put his arm in front of Heather Headley to protect her from falling out like the thing was crashing? And she remembers you like grabbing almost like you do like a like a like a loved one when you're driving and you know that you slam on the brakes and you put your arm in front of him. And I remember I like have this crazy, crazy memory of this. And then a couple of weeks later, you know, we checked the Chicago Tribune the next morning like, oh, my gosh, are they going to be OK? And it comes out that you guys were OK. And we got a couple of tickets to, you know, to the show a couple of weeks later and we came back and we saw the whole thing. And the tomb was on the stage.

[13:00] Adam Pascal: That's such an amazing account, because pretty much everything that you said is exactly how I remember it. Of course, I don't remember doing what your mom remembered because it was in the moment. I'm glad to know that I did that, you know, that I tried to protect her. I do know that I was very concerned because actually when we just did Stars in the House, we had our AIDA reunion and and I forget who was saying who was backstage and they were saying they could hear us over the microphones. And I was like, Heather, it's going to be OK. You're OK. Like I was like talking to her while we were laying on the stage, you know, and they could hear us backstage. They could hear on the mics, you know.

So I'm glad to know that I that I wasn't like George Costanza in Seinfeld. He runs out when the room's on fire. Oh, my God. Yeah. But I honestly remember I remember it pretty much exactly how you described it. The only difference is that from my recollection, when the thing actually fell, it it actually fell like two feet first and then it stopped for maybe a second or two and then it fell the rest of the way. Wow. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like gave out. It didn't fully give out right away. Well, like, you know what I mean? But that might have been something that was like imperceptible to the audience. You know what I mean? Like and it also it happened so fast. It was just like, you know, but it was fast enough for Heather and I to look at each other and go like we knew and we knew it was happening.

Like it gave us a second to register it as opposed to it just dropping. Wow. So what did you do? How did you brace yourself inside? Like, well, we kind of didn't really. I mean, it was so fast, you know what I mean? The whole it just happened so fast.

[14:37] Adam Pascal: So whatever we did, you know, I mean, it just it came down. And like you said, we rolled out onto the stage. And I remember I had the wind knocked out of me. And, and, and actually, these muscles, you're I think they're like your intercostal muscle. Thank you. Yeah, I tore a bunch of these muscles, like, in my Yeah, which, of course, for a singer, could you like couldn't be the worst place. And I, and I think Heather kind of like, fell on top of me or like, you know, I, again, I kind of braced her fall. I don't think that one was on purpose. But I think she kind of fell on top of me. And yeah, but we know we were hurt. Definitely. And here's the funny thing. A doctor did come running up on stage a lovely woman.

I don't remember this really. I remember a little bit of it. But she was a dermatologist. And she came up and she was like, I'm a doctor. I am a dermatologist. But I am a doctor. You know, like, she was lovely. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Well, I you didn't hit your head and you didn't have any more serious injuries than just like this. These torn muscles. Correct. Yeah. So we saw if if I'm not mistaken, that was a Tuesday night. And so we were we were out of the show Wednesday, two shows on Wednesday, our amazing understudies, Eric Scott, oh, and Shelly Williams went on. Wow. That I mean, completely never in a million years where they expect would they think that they were going to go on? Right?

Our second out of town, right? Yeah, they were and they got through two shows. So because they are pros. But anyway, we were back in the show, you know, look, would we have benefited from a good week or two weeks off? Absolutely. But there was a lot riding on this situation. And they were like, if you can all go back in, please go back in. And so we were back in Thursday night. And I was all taped up. And like, you know, just you know, but you know, look, the show must go on. That's kind of true to a certain extent. I've done that many times in my career since, like taped up parts of my body. You know what I mean? So just to like, get through it. I remember I was I was asked to close I was the final MC for cabaret.

And it was the most exciting, most important job I had ever had. You know what I mean? It was it was it was everything to me. And I had the most unbelievable experience. It changed my life. But on the last day, I'm trying to remember if it was the night before the last show, or there was a matinee, whatever it was, I blew the fuck out of my knee on stage in the show before the last show. Like so bad that I had to leave the show. Like I mean, you know, I so I left the show in the middle of the show, my understudy finished it. But I was like, there is no way I am not going to do this last performance. You know, this, this means everything to me, they hired me to close the show, you know what I mean?

I can't not do the last performance. So again, I just taped it up and took all everything I could, you know, and I got through it, you know, and but, you know, and again, I've done that in in Memphis, I remember I hurt my arm really bad once, like on stage, I ran into the corner of a table during a scene like full speed. And like this metal corner, just like blew out this movie's muscles. And again, tape it up, you know, you do. Yeah, I mean, yeah, like, you know, we're not we're not athletes, you know, you be you want to say that that musical theater, you know, that Broadway eight shows a week is not like a high contact sport. I mean, yeah, no, it is. It definitely is. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, gosh, hold on.

That's crazy. Well, I would love to go back to step back in time prior to AIDA. And before we scoot ahead to all of the other amazing things you did. So I've heard your story, read your story, listened to your story and other things. And now here we are getting to talk to you. But for people who don't know, Rent was your first audition. Is that true?

[18:27] Adam Pascal: It was. That is true. Yeah.

[18:29] Joe Carroll: Can you talk a little bit about that story?

[18:31] Adam Pascal: Yeah, absolutely. So so I grew up in New York, in New York City and on Long Island. And I played in rock bands, you know, my whole life. I discovered singing at a really young age, but it wasn't musical theater or being an actor that that I was drawn to. It was it was rock bands. So so so being an actor never actually occurred to me. It was never something that I ever wanted to do. So I played in bands for many, many years. And and in the mid 90s, I just left the band that I was with. And I got a call from an old friend of mine, Idina Menzel, who I grew up with. She. Yeah, she she grew up down literally down the street for me. And I've been friends with her since third grade. You know, it's crazy.

[19:16] Joe Carroll: Wow. That's wild.

[19:17] Adam Pascal: And so, yeah. And so she said, I'm doing this off Broadway musical. And there is a character that they're having a hard time casting. And it sounds a lot like you. And they're seeing people who don't have any prior theater experience. And I thought of you as something you would consider. And I considered it and I and because because the audition was just going with my guitar and sing a song. So I said, well, yeah, OK, why not? It's somebody to sit down and play in front of at that point in my life. Like that meant something. I didn't even think of it almost as an audition. I was like, you mean I can play in front of the one person instead of just sitting in my bathroom, sitting on the toilet?

I was living while I was I was living with a I was living with a woman at the time. We were living in a studio apartment. And honestly, the only place I could go to play and I couldn't even play an acoustic guitar because it's too loud. I just had an electric guitar that I wouldn't plug in and I would go into the bathroom. And so if I'm not mistaken, I actually think that my audition for rent, I played on an electric guitar, but not plugged in because that's all I had. Wow. You know, like I showed up there with an electric like some piece of shit, electric, you know, like guitar that, of course, it was normal to play. Yeah, I think I must have been. Yeah, absolutely. Amazing. I mean, there was one there's and Dan and I were talking about this before you hopped on.

There's a lot of lore for all of us that love rent and how it completely shaped the musical theater zeitgeist as we know it. There's a lot of like lore behind it. Like what did this really happen to that, you know, stories or whatever. And one of the stories that I heard about your audition was that a lot of people were I'm sure this is exaggerated, but that like there was a line of guys who showed up to audition dressed like Alice Cooper. And you were sitting at the end of this line, just dressed like you, like a guy who just like is a musician. And it was like and it was like, oh, no, like we want that guy. I don't necessarily think that that's true, but it's not true at all. It's not even close.

Check it. Check it off the list. It's like that's not real. Not even close to true because because because look, this was an unknown thing. You know what I mean? Like there wouldn't have been a line of anybody lining up to audition for rent back then because it wasn't rent. It was there was just something, you know, and so so so no, I walked in and there was, from my recollection, in all honesty, there was one guy in front of me, it was like some little room that was rented that Bernie Telsey rented, there was no place to even have people line up. It was like some little office, some little room. And I walk in and there was a guy in front of me, like some dude with long hair and like a denim jacket or whatever from my recollection.

He went in, he sang. And then I don't even know if there was anyone else there. There may have been a person coming in as I was going in. But but there was nobody there. No, that's that's the whole story. I love that. I love it. We need to call some professors from college and let them know they're full of shit.

[22:10] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that's amazing. But that's a good point, though. You know, I know that you've spoken about and I think there's something interesting there. The the the ability of a show like Rent to capture the imaginations of a new generation of theater fan, which is something that we've seen now with Hamilton and, you know, with now this In the Heights movie that is going to kind of open up a new sound to like new groups of people who may fall in love with theater for the first time. Did you recognize that that like when did that become something that you thought, oh, shit, this might be something? Was it not until Tony's and Pulitzer time or, you know?

[22:49] Adam Pascal: No. Well, you know, we we knew it was something before everyone else knew it was. Sure. You know what I mean? And what I mean by that is we didn't know if this was going to be successful, but we knew from the very beginning that was it was really special and really interesting and really different. And not only because we felt it, but just the reactions from the people in the inner circle. And, you know, and of course, when you're in the inner circle, you have those reactions. But there was just something about it. You could tell. And there was this chemistry between the 15 of us that was just like you couldn't you know, it was like lightning in a bottle, you know, like we just like we all fell in love with each other, you know, and we couldn't we couldn't get enough of each other.

And like, you know, so but no, it's only in hindsight that you can look back and see you mentioned, you know, Joe, the you know, how it sort of has changed the zeitgeist of musical theater. I agree with you. It has. But only in hindsight, are you able to see that and go, wow, and look back 25 years, it's been 25 years and and see all the things that it has wrought, you know, and all the and all the you know, and all the the branches that have come off, you know, like, like Lynn and like, you know, Tom Kitt and Pasek and Paul and like, and all these like, these all these composers that are so influenced by Jonathan, right? And not just rent by Jonathan, his other stuff, take whatever it is, you know what I mean?

It's just and, and you can hear it in the music, you know, and you can pull things out and go, Oh, my God, that it's, you know, especially with Lynn's music, which I love because he, you see, you can hear the influence you can, but then he twists it and does such a unique thing with it. And it's just it's so cool.

[24:27] Joe Carroll: Yeah, when I think you, I was just thinking about this now that that would I mean, rent, obviously, for so many, but like being sung through that, that that Hamilton being in the heights is there's more scenes and stuff. But I wonder if that was at all in his head that like, like, does does Hamilton sing all the way through if rent was not written? I mean, I don't know if there is a Lin-Manuel Miranda without a without a Jonathan Larson. But, you know, well, certainly not the one that exists now, right? There isn't.

[24:54] Adam Pascal: Yeah, yeah. Kind of a shitty question. But when you look back at that time, is there something that you that you take away from the whole rent experience? I mean, it's been so much a part of your life, you know, for your whole career, like, is there something that you value the most or that you're like, you know, wait, that the coolest part about that whole thing was X.

[25:15] Adam Pascal: The people, the relationships that I made and the lifelong friendships, you know, the Daphne's and the Jesse's and the Anthony's and, you know, like and the Wilson's. And, you know, it's like the love I have for these people that are now my family. You know, that's that's that's the undoubtedly the best, you know, for me personally, part of the whole experience.

[25:37] Joe Carroll: That's so cool. So totally. So you start this show, which becomes, you know, a worldwide phenomenon and you star in the movie and and, you know, the you go from being a rock star without any acting experience to like at this point now you're a bona fide.

[25:50] Adam Pascal: I do not go from being a rock star.

[25:54] Joe Carroll: Sure. Not at all. I went from being a sure. Thank you. Let's clarify. Fair, fair. I see a true real life, Roger Davis. And then you became you kind of like found this career as a bona fide Broadway actor in dozens of of shows. And and did you ever have a moment where you were like, what the fuck am I doing here? I don't belong here. Did you ever start training?

[26:22] Adam Pascal: Yeah. Do you like?

[26:24] Adam Pascal: No. Well, the training for me has always been like, you know, I have sort of an interesting relationship with that concept. And I've been fortunate enough to get all my training on the stage. People have been crazy enough to hire me to do things that I didn't know how to do. And allowed me to learn to do them on a stage on Broadway. So, you know, that's where my training has come from. And it's been invaluable. And I wouldn't you know what I mean? It's I couldn't have asked for better training in that kind because that's what works for me. You know what I mean? But but yeah, I see I just got sidetracked. I distracted. What was your original thing? What were we talking about? Just did you ever feel like you didn't belong like?

Oh, yes. I always, always did. Always did, especially in the very beginning, those first few years. And it really wasn't until cabaret that because because doing cabaret for me did so many different things, you know, personally and professionally, but I knew after I eat, I had to make a leap in a way a leap of faith in myself and and take a risk, knowing that like, if I didn't do something that showed that I can do more than people have already seen in these two shows, then I was going to get pigeonholed as just like the Broadway rock guy. You know what I mean? And so so, you know, I aggressively pursued that job in cabaret, you know, for the entire run it was on, you know, so I knew that I had to succeed in it.

I didn't know if I could and I was terrified once I got the job. But um, but I did. And that instilled in me this, this, this respect for this thing that we do. And this, this is the newfound respect that I didn't have up until that point. And, and, and it also showed me that I could work incredibly hard at something and have it pay off. I've never done that before. Not hard in the way and honest, but not. And when I say work hard, not in the way that I learned that role in two weeks and, and nailed it on night one, you know what I mean? Like I worked cause that's all you get is two weeks. And so I, I, I, I think I probably rehearsed between actually being in a rehearsal studio and all the work I did at home, like, you know, 15 hours a day, 16 hours a day.

Like, I was just like, I have to get this in my skin. It's gotta be in my body before I hit the stage, or it's not gonna, I won't be able to do what I want to do, you know? So, so it just, it changed my life in that way. And, and also again, and then people in the industry said, oh, wow, he can do other stuff and, and he can act, you know? And, and so but especially when I, like when I got the Tony nomination for Rent, I, I felt so guilty. I was like, how in the world did this happen to me? And how did Jesse not get one? How did Anthony not get one? I was like, I felt terrible. And I felt so guilty. And I was like, I'm just a fucking poser. Like, and, and, and these guys are like, you know,

[29:15] Adam Pascal: And I get one and they don't, you know, like it really bothered me. I didn't have the reaction that one would think that you would have when you when you get nominated for a Tony. I was like, what? What are they crazy?

[29:28] Dan Tracy: That's super interesting.

[29:29] Adam Pascal: It's it was like one of those roles that you I mean, and you are brilliant in the role. I actually got to see you when you and Anthony came back to close Broadway.

[29:40] Adam Pascal: OK, see, I was much better than I was. Honestly, I mean, well, we didn't know. We didn't we didn't come back to close Broadway. That wasn't Anthony and I. We came back. We came back in 2007 for the summer.

[29:50] Adam Pascal: Got it. And then we did a tour in 2009.

[29:53] Dan Tracy: Yeah. No, I think that was Renee and Will, I think that did. And who was Mark?

[29:59] Adam Pascal: Oh, God, I can't even remember who Mark was in that closing cast anyway.

[30:03] Adam Pascal: Yeah, I got to see you in the back of the orchestra. It was epic. Super.

[30:07] Adam Pascal: Well, you know, it was great for us to be able to come back and certainly for me to be able to come back and do the show again as a more seasoned actor. You know what I mean? And because I found so many more things and I was actually able to enjoy doing the show a lot more, you know, vocally, I was much stronger. I knew how to take care of myself by that point. It had been all these years later, you know. And so it's just a much more pleasant experience for me.

[30:32] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you touch on that. I'd actually love to know the vocal, vocal health, vocal training sort of stuff, because you have one of the most iconic voices of this ridiculous art form that we love. Did you ever take a voice lesson or train with people or was it? Did you get your training and truly like in clubs and singing in rock bands and how do I sustain this life?

[30:55] Adam Pascal: Yeah, yeah, I kind of did. That's really sort of where it came from. Well, I'll start by saying whatever I do and however I've learned to do it, I'm assuming that I have proper technique. I because I don't lose my voice. You know what I mean? Not that I don't have vocal issues and have problems like everybody else. But, you know, I never had nodes. I never had vocal cord issues. I never had like that kind of stuff. I get fatigued. I get tired. I get flam. I get all that kind of stuff. But like so I think my for whatever reason. And again, it's just luck. I've developed a proper technique in the way that I sing. That doesn't mean that every note that comes out of my mouth is done with proper technique. I do all sorts of crazy things with my voice.

[31:39] Adam Pascal: And I use different parts of my head and face and body. You know what I mean? Especially when I'm doing my stuff, not necessarily in musical theater. But and so, yeah, and it just it came out of, you know, I used to sit in my bedroom with headphones on big stereo headphones and, you know, the early 80s listening to, you know, Iron Maiden records and listening to Ronnie Dio records and like and singing along. But having to sing so loud that that I could hear myself come back through the headphones, you know, I wasn't Mike. There were these headphones on.

[32:11] Adam Pascal: And so I and also these guys were such powerful singers. Right. Right. And Queen and Journey and and and the Who and Zeppelin. Like I just I was I was always I always gravitated towards strong singers, you know, and even Billy Joel Elton John, who I adore and I'm saying my whole life like, you know, they don't get enough credit for their singing. You know, those guys are great singers and and their style of singing is is I mean, you know exactly who they are immediately. Nobody sounds like them. Like they are they are unique vocalists, those two.

[32:43] Adam Pascal: And I always try and say that to like give them both, you know, like they should get more credit for that.

[32:46] Dan Tracy: That's a really, really good point that I am thrilled that you brought up because it's something I've wanted to say on this podcast and highlight, which is that Joe and I went to Michigan and studied musical theater. So we're basically the opposite of you. We like went to school and they were like, this is how Broadway must be done. Learn it this way and then go and figure out what it will be.

[33:07] Adam Pascal: Well, with Michael McElroy about to be at the helm, I don't think it's going to be taught that way.

[33:12] Dan Tracy: I agree. I think they've drastically shifted the go ahead.

[33:16] Adam Pascal: And that's huge. Actually, Michael McElroy taking over the musical theater program in Michigan. We haven't actually talked about it on this podcast yet, because but that is the greatest decision in the history of decisions for the next generation of majors at the University of Michigan. I just we have to say I agree anyway, for sure.

[33:32] Dan Tracy: Yeah, the point I was trying to just get to really fast and just highlight of something that you just said is that like it's OK to sound different and be different. And I think that Joe and I lived in this generation where we were all trying to sound like someone or like everyone in this weird way. Like I have a couple of voices and yours is somehow one of them. But your voice is so uniquely you that no one could ever do that. And I don't think that musical theater performers when they're younger allow themselves or are taught to do that.

[34:05] Adam Pascal: Like as we bring pop music back into musical theater more and more, it's going to be even more important that you have these like unique characteristics to your voice to really call to how pop music functions because of all of these artists that we listen to who never sound like anybody else.

[34:22] Adam Pascal: Right, right. I couldn't agree more. And I and I always encourage that when I work with students and I do masterclasses is encourage their uniqueness and what makes them them.

[34:33] Adam Pascal: Now, look, especially when you're young. You know, when I was a teenager, I just wanted to sound like Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden. You know what I mean? Like that's just. And so and so everything I sang sounded like Bruce. You know what I mean? It was just like and the guys in the band were like, do you have to sing with so much vibrato? And I was like, that's what I do, man. You know, because that's what Bruce does, you know.

[34:57] Adam Pascal: So I get that. You know what I mean? And it look, it takes a long time and it takes an active continuation and process to find who you are. You know, look, I'm still finding it. You know what I mean? It's I think it's a constant evolving process. You know, when you're in show business and you do something artistic and as it should be, it should never, you know, become stale and stop.

[35:22] Adam Pascal: Like and so I'm like vocally for me, I'm still trying to push myself. I still do. I'm still trying to be a better singer. You know what I mean? And, you know, I don't want to be one of those people that like as they get older, they lose their voice. You know what I mean? For me, like I want my voice to get better and stronger and richer. And quite frankly, it has because I push it. You know what I mean?

[35:45] Adam Pascal: And yeah. And so and so but but to get more back to your specific point, yes, more uniqueness needs to be encouraged. And and I think it is because because of the eclecticness of the styles of music that are being produced on Broadway and becoming popular, you know, parts of, as you say, the zeitgeist of musical theater. So it's it's going to require unique voices.

[36:14] Adam Pascal: Right. You know what I mean? Out of necessity. Right. You know, right.

[36:18] Adam Pascal: So so I so I'm I'm I'm glad that you guys are embracing that, you know, that that concept, because it is so important. It's what makes anyone stand out. Anyone who is a successful singer on Broadway, if you think about any of any of us, you know what I mean? Who are the stars? None of us sound like any each other.

[36:36] Adam Pascal: Right. And, you know, and and and and kind of none of us sound like anyone else. Like so. Right. So it's interesting that it's that uniqueness is not pushed more because uniqueness is clearly what is celebrated and it's what elevates people to stardom, because all of the stars on Broadway who do Broadway have a unique sound. There is something about all of our voices that is, you know, uniquely us.

[37:06] Adam Pascal: You know, Idina doesn't sound like Kelly O'Hara. And, you know, and and and and Heather doesn't sound like Willis White and Heather, you know, like whatever it is, like whatever comparisons you want to make. I don't sound like Norbert. You know what I mean? Like you can you can compare, you know, you can any of us.

[37:25] Adam Pascal: And so so it's it's I think that it should be encouraged more because it's again, because that's clearly what works. But yet somehow the opposite tends to get enforced.

[37:37] Dan Tracy: Yeah. And I and I realize as an educator, it must be a double edged sword because I think a lot of I came into school being heavily influenced by voices like yours and shows like Spring Awakening and came into college kind of like growing up listening to Fall Out Boy and Pop Punk, and like that's what my voice sounded like.

[37:54] Dan Tracy: And I could have just kept going in that direction and carved like a really unique lane for myself. And I kind of still have. But my teachers were trying to foster a richer, more developed sound and encouraged me to do things that I didn't do. So it's it's not that they were trying to push me, but.

[38:12] Adam Pascal: Right. Well, but see, and that's what needs to happen. They need to take what's already there, your existing talent, your existing instinct, and nurture that as well. Not not try and at all stifle it because because what a great look. I look at it. I think of these things. And this is something that I have worked on in my career, which is developing different characters for my voice so that I can sing in different ways and sound in different ways, depending on a character that I'm playing. Right.

[39:04] Adam Pascal: And not so just not so different that it doesn't sound like me. But just, you know, and so and I consider that, you know, having tools in your toolbox as an actor and as a singer. Right. You know, and so, you know, if I can if I can sing a show like, you know, or just not that I've done it on Broadway or anything, but like music like Hedwig, OK, like a real rock score, like that's real.

[39:10] Adam Pascal: I mean, you know, when I think of a rock score, I think of Hedwig. Like that is real. Like I just I put that on, you know, in my just my rock mix. You know what I mean? Because it's just such awesome rock music, you know.

[39:12] Dan Tracy: Anyway, you've never done Hedwig.

[39:16] Adam Pascal: No, I have.

[39:17] Dan Tracy: Oh, my God.

[39:17] Adam Pascal: But anyway, so don't distract. Sorry.

[39:17] Adam Pascal: So I yeah, so so there's so, you know, there's that. But then, you know, if I if I want to sing the Phantom or if I want to sing, I mean, it's like I have to sing a different way. I have to bring out a different tone and I have to approach it differently vocally. And and so it was really important to me and continues to be to be able to do that. Depending on the show and what I'm doing, it makes me versatile. It makes one versatile.

[39:40] Adam Pascal: It's like being able to speak in different accents. You know what I mean? I sort of look at it as this as a similar thing.

[39:48] Dan Tracy: But no, I've never done Hedwig. I love Hedwig.

[39:50] Adam Pascal: But no, I've never done.

[39:53] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I don't know. I'm putting that out there. Can we please do that?

[40:00] Adam Pascal: Is so that's I hope people get a lot from what you just said, because that is incredibly valuable for anybody who's trying to develop their voice and, you know, and even for Dan and I. I mean, that's just I mean.

[40:11] Adam Pascal: Yeah, it's a really good point, because like I say, I wish that I like followed my unique sound more. But I also wish that I had something like a Jesse Mueller has, which is like the girl can sing every style. She can go from carousel to Carole King to Sara Bareilles. And it's still her, but it's very much the right style.

[40:32] Adam Pascal: And that's what you have to do. You know, I agree. Because because, you know, we want to be able to be, again, as versatile as we as castable as we can. Right. You know what I mean? And and to me, that's what's so fun about this career is to be able to to disappear into these other characters and play make believe. I mean, that's what's so fun.

[40:50] Adam Pascal: And I mean, it really is like sort of like the best career. You get to play make believe and dress up and sing amazing music and and get paid moderately well for it.

[41:04] Dan Tracy: Oh, that's so good. Classic.

[41:09] Adam Pascal: What has been what would you say has been the greatest challenge that you face so far?

[41:12] Adam Pascal: Not quitting when things get really hard, which is most of the time, you know, you sound you sound like us. You sound like you've been listening to our show.

[41:25] Adam Pascal: Well, no, that to me, to me, from my perspective, that's the job. You know what I mean? I have a career in show business, and my job is to not leave that career and show business when things just get desperate, which they periodically do and always will. You know what I mean? The when I work, when I get hired for something, those aren't jobs. Those are the that's that's the prize.

[41:49] Adam Pascal: That's the prize that I get for sticking it out over and over and over again and not quitting. You know what I mean? And so for me, that's the job is to just do all the things that I need to do to not quit and not give it up because I just can't stand it anymore. You know what I mean?

[42:04] Adam Pascal: Because, look, I I wish that I was somebody. And when I first got into the business, I was like, I got a thick skin. I thought I had a thick skin because everybody loved me and I was the star of Rent. And, you know, I don't you know, I don't have a thick skin. I don't deal well with rejection. I don't like not getting parts, which I do often not get parts.

[42:22] Adam Pascal: People think, oh, like, oh, they're knocking down your door and you're constantly getting offered this and offered that. That's so not the case. Right. And so and I go for long periods of time where I'm not in a show. You know, luckily, I have this aspect of my music career where I go out and I do my own gigs. And that has been a mainstay of my career lots, you know, over the years where I wasn't in a show, you know.

[42:43] Adam Pascal: But point being is, is that. It's a miserable business. It really is. And I don't sugarcoat it. I tell, you know, and, you know, if you want somebody to tell you how wonderful it is, then you're going to have to ask somebody else.

[42:57] Adam Pascal: I love that. Again, the the prize of of doing work is is what it's all about. And and and and I love it so much. And that's why I keep doing it. And now I'm so far into it, I can't get out of it. Now it's 25 years in and I'm 50 and I'm like, well, I'm going to give it up. You know what I mean? And go, you know, look, I wish I had the skills to be a carpenter. I would use them. I really would use them.

[43:22] Adam Pascal: But I can't go back and and and and learn that now. It's, you know, when I'm 75, I'll be a good, successful carpenter. I don't want to spend the next 25 years building a new career.

[43:34] Dan Tracy: You know, right.

[43:35] Adam Pascal: I love that so much and couldn't agree anymore.

[43:39] Adam Pascal: He's been inside my head. It's like he's been inside my head. I mean, I know just with the last year, especially, I mean, and Dan and I, you know, we've gone through massive bouts of unemployment in the last year has been so incredibly depressing that it's like

[43:52] Adam Pascal: I hear that from someone like you. It's like misery loves company. We're all going to be okay and we're not at the same time. That's the thing. I do the best I can, certainly in recent years, to try and live in my truth. And that's not always been easy for me. But one of the ways that I try and do it is when I'm asked things like this. And not that I've ever really been someone to sugarcoat stuff. But to be honest, I've been doing this long enough now that I think I have a little bit of wisdom. You know what I mean? And so I know that I talk loud and I curse and I gesticulate. And it's like I probably have an air as if I know what I'm talking about. You know what? I do know what I'm talking about.

Ten years ago, I probably talked the same way with the same air of confidence and maybe didn't quite know what I was talking about. But I think now I do. Now I feel like I'm confident in my own wisdom and that I've navigated this business for enough years. I've done enough things. I've seen enough things. I've had enough experience that I think that my wisdom carries weight to it. And so, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[45:04] Dan Tracy: I love that. We ask everybody, is there a book or a resource or something that you found invaluable in your career? Is there something like, you know, you talk about living in your truth or, you know, it can be an album or something that you're like, oh, this is my, you know, something that really steers your ship.

[45:20] Adam Pascal: No, I haven't. I have found things about the world and life and the things that interest me that keep me engaged. In recent years, I have a – again, it's about this sort of pursuit of truth. And I follow people who I feel are good guides in the pursuit of truth. And I listen to people like Sam Harris and the late Christopher Hitchens and Ricky Gervais and Lawrence Krauss. And these are all scientists and philosophers and authors and people who are interested in the nature of reality, you know what I mean, and the universe and culture and humanity and our brains and all of that stuff. And so, you know, that has occupied a lot of my mental thinking in recent years. And I'm just really excited by those things.

[46:28] Dan Tracy: I love that. Yeah. And there is such access to it through podcasts and through, you know, making sort of the democratization of information in that way. I love that. Love that. Love that. You know, we ask everybody what the most influential musical is on your career. And it doesn't have to be something you've done. It certainly can be. And it sounds like Cabaret. I mean, we talked about it a lot earlier that that may have really been sort of a big sort of shift in your career. But is there something else? Are there any other shows that are incredibly influential to you that you found?

[47:08] Adam Pascal: Well, I love doing comedy. And so getting to do Disaster and then Something Rotten, I think, was really, really important for me personally, again, and career wise. I think people said, oh, wow, he's funny. Right. And that, again, talk about tools in your tool belt. That opens up a whole new world. You know what I mean? I would love to play Max in The Producers. And again, nobody would ever look at me and think that. But you know what? I'd kill that role. And I love doing comedy. And so in all honesty, it's kind of like my favorite thing. There's nothing more I love more in this world than to laugh. And there's nothing more I love than to make people laugh. And so to be in those shows and experience that and to work with these other comedic actors who are so brilliant, who I learned so much from, between everyone in Disaster and then Rob McClure and Josh Grizzetti and Blake Hammond and all these people, I just learned so much.

You just you're around these people, Roger Barton, Kevin Chamberlain and Faith Prince and Kerry Butler. You just you're around these people. You can't help but absorb. And Jen Samard. You can't help but absorb the funniness. So I think that that's been super important for me of recent years.

[48:39] Dan Tracy: I love it. What advice would you have for somebody who's starting out? If you could go back, it could either be for an omnipresent somebody else or it could be something that you wish you'd known that you wish that you had done earlier or something like that. Or for Dan and Joe right now.

[48:54] Adam Pascal: I wish that. Yeah, right. That's usually how it ends up. Yeah. Well, no, it's just that if you can understand the uphill battle and that it's always going to be uphill, it never plateaus. The slope will ease and the gradients will change. But it's always uphill. And if you know that and if you're prepared for that, that's, I think, the best advice I can give you or anybody going into show business. Look, choose A-list actors. You know what I mean? Granted, their issues are different, but to a certain extent, they're not. And I used this example yesterday, and I don't know why I pulled her. I just pulled her out of the air. So this has nothing to do with her in particular. But like I said, take someone like Jennifer Aniston.

Jennifer Aniston is arguably an A-list star, right? Not even arguably. She's clearly an A-list star. Jennifer Aniston undoubtedly doesn't get a lot of the roles I'm sure she wants. Right, right. You know what I mean? Right. You know what I mean? I'm sure that there's lots of things that Nicole Kidman gets or that this one gets or that that one gets that she doesn't get. You know what I mean? That she really wanted to, and it hurts her, and it makes her feel rejected, and she goes through the same things that I go through when I don't get the show or that you don't get the show. You know what I mean? So it's important for people to know also that it will never get to that place, and you will never not feel rejected when you don't get something, and you will always not get something, even when you get to the level of Jennifer Aniston.

[50:35] Dan Tracy: Right. You know what I mean? Totally. Totally. Totally. Right. Oh, that's so good. That's so good. It's tragic. Yeah. But it's also unifying. Yeah. No, it's a reality that needs to be accepted. Yes. It's a reality if you are going to survive and not kill yourself because it's just a reality that you have to accept. Understand – look, in any business, in anything you do as a young person, if you're moving ahead in life, you should be as well informed of this whatever chosen career you're going into of what the reality of that career is, whatever it is. And with show business, most people don't give you the reality.

[51:16] Adam Pascal: Right. You get some bullshit Instagram version of what you think a life in show business is, and you go, I want that, which has always been the nature of show business. Right. You know what I mean? Right. It's, oh, I want to be a star. I mean that's always what – but I've lived through it, so I can tell you that it's – there are things that are wonderful, and then a lot of it sucks.

[51:37] Dan Tracy: Well, I think, too, that there's something – I was just thinking about this. There's this – I don't know. I think we're the only career where somebody says, oh, I want to make it. I want to make it. I want to – oh, I've made it. Which is such an amorphous concept. What does that even mean?

[51:50] Adam Pascal: Exactly. What does that look like? And it's bullshit. It's a life of slowly climbing uphill and having the gradient change as opposed to making it because I don't think that that expectation is on any other career. And also it shouldn't be on ours because it is bullshit.

[52:07] Dan Tracy: Right. Exactly because it's not a meritocracy. It's not about how hard you work. You're going to work really hard for shit you don't get. And it's fleeting because even if you do book the thing that you've always wanted to book, it will come to an end. It will come to an end and eventually, no matter how hot you may be because I've gone through this, eventually you won't be. You know what I mean? And you could get – again, it'll go up and down, but like you're of interest in the moment. Like I'm doing a ton of press right now. You know what I mean? I have a concert coming out. I'm talking to people. I was on press all day yesterday. I'm getting all this narcissistic supply. I'm talking to people, and everyone is telling me how wonderful I am, and it's so nice to talk to you, and I'm talking to this outlet and that outlet and this. But you know what? After today, it's over, and I'm not going to talk to anybody for months on end. So it's like – people need to understand the reality of what it is.

[53:45] Adam Pascal: That's awesome. That's awesome. You just need to store it away in the narcissism ego bank and let the –

[53:51] Dan Tracy: Exactly. Take as long as you can to let it defrost.

[53:54] Adam Pascal: That's so funny. Well, we're getting to the end. We're so grateful that you – it was actually – well, here, we'll say this. It was so horrible talking to you. This was terrible. But the last question that I always like to ask people is – I call it the unreachable star question, which is like what do you have – what are you pointed towards now? Is there something on the horizon that you really want to do? Like you said, comedy. Like you want to do more comedies. You want to do the producers. Is there something that you really love to accomplish now even after you've accomplished so much?

[54:26] Adam Pascal: Well, I want to continue the longevity that I've had. I want to just continue to work and continue to follow paths that are laid out in front of me that maybe weren't there yesterday. That's been a really exciting thing about my career. So I don't have any particular goals like I want to accomplish this or I want to get on a TV show or I want to do – I don't. I enjoy, quite frankly, having steady income. And so I have a family and I have a son in college and I'm going to have another son in college. So I want to accomplish continuing to work wherever that can be.

[55:09] Dan Tracy: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. For sure. Well, I want to thank you for coming on the show and for being – living your truth, for sharing your truth with us. And I just wanted to highlight like when I fell in love with musicals, and I'm sure Joe feels very similarly, a lot of people said it was corny and it wasn't cool. But you were one of the people that made it cool. And I guess I'm thanking you for that even though you were just being yourself. But it is really amazing to get the opportunity to talk to you on this show, this idea that Joe and I had. And for you to share your truth with us here is just a true blessing, and I want to thank you for sharing that with us.

[56:10] Adam Pascal: Well, thank you for saying that. I really appreciate that, and I'm humbled by that. And I'm just – I'm so grateful that I'm part of this community and have had any impact whatsoever on anything. This is the best.

[56:12] Dan Tracy: Thank you so much, Adam. This was truly, truly – and like I will – I made the joke, but it really was just amazing to talk to you. And we've been fans of you for a long time.

[56:23] Adam Pascal: Thank you. And thank you for – I'm so glad that you told me that story about Aida. I've never met anyone who was there that night. So I'm actually – it's great to talk to you. I have always wanted to. I was like, oh my gosh, maybe I get this opportunity too. But in what context? Because if we were to work on something together, like if I was in something rotten, I wasn't going to come up to you on a 10 and be like, hey, man. So what's crazy is that –

[56:44] Dan Tracy: Remember when you fell?

[56:46] Adam Pascal: Remember when you fell? It was the perfect opportunity to tell you the story. And actually I was doing Frozen back in 2019, and I told Tom Schumacher. And he had a similar reaction. He was like, I've never met anybody who was in the audience that night. And he told me he was like, we were on a plane back to Los Angeles and basically landed and got right back on a plane and came back. And so I just – an unbelievable sort of little piece of musical theater history that I didn't even know that I was a part of.

[57:15] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Well, it's amazing. And I appreciate you telling me the story. Thank you.

[57:19] Adam Pascal: Yeah. So best of luck with the concert and everything else.

[57:22] Dan Tracy: Thanks, guys. And thank you for this. And hopefully it will be awesome to work together.

[57:27] Adam Pascal: I hope so, man.

[57:29] Dan Tracy: All right. If you guys become big actor, director, producers, remember to hire me.

[57:33] Adam Pascal: Exactly. In a rock star comedy.

[57:35] Dan Tracy: In the rock star comedy.

[57:36] Adam Pascal: Yes, that would be good.

[57:37] Dan Tracy: Awesome, man. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you soon.

[57:40] Adam Pascal: Thanks, guys.

[57:41] Dan Tracy: All right. Thank you.

[57:45] Dan Tracy: Thank you for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals. We are now part of the Broadway Podcast Network. Woo! We are hosted by Dan Tracy. That's you. And Joe Carroll. That's me. And I'm produced by Ryan Kincaid. And Matthew Mucha is the social content manager. You can find us on Instagram at Guys Who Like Musicals, on Twitter at Musical Guys, or the old-fashioned way at www.guyswholikemusicals.com. If you'd like a chance to be featured on the Ask the Guys segment of our show, please call 203-900-7990 and leave a message with your question. As always, thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.