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[0:00] Jennifer Apple: Hello! Welcome to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Apple, a multi-hyphenate actor, educator, acting coach, writer, dog mom, and founder of this vibrant community that champions artists as they carve out their own unique paths in this wild industry. Whether you're just starting out, in the thick of it, or seeking a bit of artistic fuel to expand your toolbox, you're in the right place. In this space, we'll have honest conversations, share actionable strategies, tips, and resources, and delve into the messy yet beautiful journey of living a sustainable, creative life. We unmask the reality of life as an artist, from navigating career highs and lows to nurturing your full human well-being.

I chat with women and non-binary guests who share their personal stories, helpful learnings, and hearts to help you unlock your artistic potential, expand your knowledge, and show up fully and fearlessly in your artistry and daily life. Before we dive into this week's conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. If today's chat resonates with you, please leave us a review. It helps us reach even more incredible artists just like you. And hey, feel free to spread the love! Share this podcast with a friend or post it on your socials, making sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can chat with you there. Alright, grab a cup of something cozy, settle in, and let's get to it!

[1:22] Jennifer Apple: My dear listeners, this week marks our 135th and final episode of Season 3. I still pinch myself that we have grown into three seasons, 135 episodes, and a community of listeners who show up with such care and curiosity, it's beyond what I could have ever dreamed. This season has been filled with such generosity from the guests who have offered their time, wisdom, vulnerability, tools, truths. We've shared tricks, dispelled myths, and held space for the messy, beautiful, complicated journey of being a creative human. And together, we've created a library of conversations that's here for you whenever you need it. This podcast is meant to be a resource you can return to again and again, to revisit an episode that resonated, to share with someone who might need it, or to spark curiosity about something you wanted to learn more about.

And even though we're going on a hiatus, please, never hesitate to let us know what episodes have stayed with you or what you'd love for us to explore in the future. Your reflections help shape this podcast. So, before we dive into this final conversation of the season, I want to ask a small favor. If this podcast has moved you in any way, would you please take a moment to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify? A few words of 5-star rating? It helps more than I can accurately say. The more this work is shared, the more artists we can reach and uplift. And thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for being a part of this community. I am endlessly grateful.

[2:50] Jennifer Apple: And now, our final episode of Season 3, as part of our Casting Director miniseries, I sat down with Emmy-nominated independent casting director Bess Fifer to dig into the realities, responsibilities, and rewards of the work. Bess shares candid insights about navigating the freelance hustle as a casting director, redefining success on your own terms, and why even with hit shows like Severance on her résumé, stability in this industry isn't guaranteed. Together, we discuss practical tools for actors, from how to approach self-tapes with a strong perspective, to the importance of framing and sound, to why asking thoughtful questions can actually signal professionalism rather than overstepping. This episode closes out Season 3 with a reminder that building a creative life is about finding your version of success, showing up with curiosity and generosity, and trusting that good work will always be recognized. Enjoy.

[3:42] Jennifer Apple: Bess Fifer, welcome to the space.

[3:47] Bess Fifer: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

[3:52] Jennifer Apple: For anybody who does not know you, who are you today?

[3:59] Bess Fifer: Today, I am an independent casting director based out of New York City, or specifically, Jersey City, New Jersey. I have been a casting director for about 20 years. This is my 20th year and I'm just happy to still be working.

[4:16] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, and you're working on some incredible projects that we 100% will get into. It's really such a gift to have you in this space and the breadth of work that you have done. 20 years is no small feat, so congratulations.

[4:28] Bess Fifer: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

[4:31] Jennifer Apple: I feel like to move through 20 years of this industry, and certainly the last, I don't know, 5 to 10 years of what this industry has been, and to make it out on the other side, thriving, is like the biggest of feats. I'm curious to hear for you, I mean, starting from the beginning of your career and why casting, directing specifically, but the way that it's morphed over 20 years.

[4:53] Bess Fifer: Yeah, it's definitely changed. I think like a lot of people fell into casting, although I guess I fell in an interesting way because I was in graduate school, kind of deciding what to do and what kind of professional path to take and knew that I wanted to be in the arts, pretty sure I wanted to stay in the arts, and I took an aptitude test.

[5:27] Jennifer Apple: What was your graduate school for?

[5:34] Bess Fifer: I was studying drama, but my undergraduate had actually been in exercise science because I, being a practical, grounded person, was like, oh, you need to go and get a serious job. And so for me, I was like, well, I'll do this serious thing, but ideally I'm going to go and then work with dancers or work with actors. And I got my undergrad and was like, oh, no, actually, so you have to go and spend another $100,000, $200,000 to go to PT school. And I just actually started having panic attacks about that. So I was like, I'm going to do some graduate school. I'm going to switch gears. I'm going to do some drama studies. And I say drama studies because I wasn't at a place that I was going to be able to get a master's degree.

So I was like, okay, let's just switch gears and dig in a little bit. And so I took an aptitude test while I was basically doing a day job trying to get office management skills. It was a very generic aptitude test. It wasn't industry specific. It was life specific. It was 750 questions. I think it was like $75. It took me like three hours to complete. And casting director came up on the ends of the aptitude test, which to this day, I'm like, who put this in there? And like, can I send you a thank you? Because I didn't know what it was. I had no idea. I was like, what's a casting director? And my husband, who had spent, you know, more than a handful of years in LA in the industry before we met, and he switched gears to music, but didn't really know much. He'd never really worked directly with a casting director. But he basically was like, I don't know, people seem to really have trouble with them. And they seem to be kind of unhappy people.

[7:28] Bess Fifer: Oh, no. Okay. But as the more I learned about the profession and like what the job was, which is essentially working day to day to actors, which actually has now changed, you know, being in the room day to day directing actors, you know, dissecting a script, working with a director and a writer to see what the fleshed out real life person of the person on the page is. And I was just like, this sounds fantastic, mainly just because if there's one thing that I've always had, it's opinions. So I'm, this sounds really great. And so yeah, that was really kind of, it's all I've ever done. And moved to New York, with that purpose of like, let's see if I can do this. And I spent, you know, a couple months in an agency and, you know, both as an intern and then as an assistant to kind of just like, get in where I could and get some industry experience.

Essentially, that was then how I got an internship in casting, you know, and basically worked for free for about a year. But it got me in the door. And thankfully, you know, internships are not things that are that are free anymore. And we don't have all of that because it is absolutely for the privilege to be able to sit and work for free in order to break into an industry. So not on table, it's I'm glad it's over, right? Like, I'm glad that is not a way that people get to break in. There are more classes, there are, you know, college classes, there are apprenticeships as opposed to internships. But that was how I got in and essentially convinced them to hire me as their office manager and then worked my way into being a casting assistant and being a casting associate before kind of being like, I need to go out and see, you know, I think it's important, like, you may study, you know, a certain technique of acting.

But you should also check out others, because you don't know what's going to be the one that helps you access. Correct. Same thing with dance, right? You might be an incredible tap dancer, but who knows what you could do in tap if you learned more about modern or incorporated more jazz or blah, blah, blah. And so and so yeah, that was kind of my decision to be more of an independent casting director and then work with a bunch of different people who became mentors or just, you know, moments in time that I kind of built the way that I like to do my job. Some things I said, great, this works for me. Other things I said, absolutely not. And, you know, I kind of came up with my own business model based on the things that I saw and liked or saw and saw that worked or saw and saw that didn't work.

[10:22] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, this is I'm just still in awe about the fact that casting director 20 years ago was on an aptitude test. I mean, wild.

[10:27] Bess Fifer: Yeah, I mean, technically, it was 2004. So yeah, it was even.

[10:35] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. Yeah. Because even now in the zeitgeist, like people have been everybody knows the casting director at this point. There's like a director, but they're not, you know, worse. There's still finally the recognition of like, I mean, awards or a whole other conversation. But like, finally, now it's like, oh, casting directors maybe should be rewarded for the work that they did to have all these people in the movie or TV show that you're seeing. Who are you looking at?

[11:03] Bess Fifer: Yes. Yeah, exactly. Mm hmm.

[11:09] Jennifer Apple: Specifically, my own parents don't know what I do. So you know, it's just why.

[11:13] Bess Fifer: Same actually, that was an actor. They're like, this is a still a career. This isn't, you know, no, they've come around. But it is a thing that like, yeah, early, early 2000s, in my mind that that was like a thing that they put up there is is kind of incredible. And, you know, I really applaud you for recognizing that, like, okay, I got to like, figure it out. What is working? What isn't? What do I like? What do I not like, and then you can take your own model. And so I'm curious for you, what would you say you refer to it as your business model? Like, what would you say is the special sauce for the way that you work?

[11:37] Bess Fifer: Oh, gosh, my special sauce. Um, part of the reason that I have remained as an independent was because I actually do love to collaborate and want to be able to collaborate freely. And the other reason that I've actually remained an independent is to keep my overall overhead small, which also means that I don't need the same amount of workload as some other people need at this point in time. Because, you know, I have a long term associate, Aaron, Aaron Schoonover, and he's amazing, but he's

[12:15] Jennifer Apple: Welcome back to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. Today, we are continuing our Casting Director Mini-Series with the incredible Bess Fifer, CSA. Bess is an Emmy-nominated casting director known for her work on shows like Severance. Bess, thank you so much for being here today.

[12:45] Bess Fifer: Thank you for having me, Jennifer. I'm excited to dive into this conversation.

[13:15] Jennifer Apple: Absolutely! So, let’s start with your journey. How did you get into casting, and what drew you to this side of the industry?

[13:45] Bess Fifer: I’ve always been passionate about storytelling and the arts. I started out as an actor, but I quickly realized that I loved the process of bringing stories to life from behind the scenes. Casting allows me to shape the narrative by finding the right talent to embody those characters.

[14:15] Jennifer Apple: That’s such a unique perspective! What do you think are some of the biggest challenges you face as a casting director?

[14:45] Bess Fifer: One of the biggest challenges is navigating the freelance hustle. There’s a lot of uncertainty in this industry, and even with successful projects under my belt, stability is never guaranteed. It’s a constant balancing act between creative vision and the realities of the business.

[15:15] Jennifer Apple: That’s a great point. How do you define success for yourself in this industry?

[15:25] Bess Fifer: For me, success is about finding fulfillment in the work I do and the impact I have on the projects I’m involved in. It’s not just about accolades or recognition; it’s about creating meaningful connections and telling authentic stories.

[15:55] Jennifer Apple: I love that! Speaking of authenticity, how do you approach self-tapes from actors? What can they do to stand out?

[16:25] Bess Fifer: Self-tapes are such an important part of the audition process now. I always encourage actors to bring their unique perspective to the material. It’s essential to understand the character and the story, and then to make bold choices that reflect that understanding.

[16:55] Jennifer Apple: That’s such valuable advice. What about the technical aspects? How important are framing and sound in self-tapes?

[17:25] Bess Fifer: They are incredibly important! Good lighting, clear sound, and proper framing can make a huge difference in how your performance is perceived. It shows professionalism and respect for the casting process.

[17:37] Jennifer Apple: Absolutely! And what about questions from actors during the audition process? How should they approach that?

[17:47] Bess Fifer: Asking thoughtful questions can actually demonstrate professionalism. It shows that you’re engaged and invested in the role. Just be mindful of the timing and context; it’s all about striking the right balance.

[17:59] Jennifer Apple: That’s a great tip! As we wrap up, what’s one final piece of advice you would give to aspiring actors navigating this industry?

[18:09] Bess Fifer: Trust your instincts and stay true to yourself. The industry can be tough, but if you focus on your craft, build genuine relationships, and approach your work with generosity, good things will come your way.

[18:21] Jennifer Apple: Thank you so much, Bess! This has been such an enlightening conversation. I appreciate your insights and the work you do in the industry.

[18:31] Bess Fifer: Thank you, Jennifer! It’s been a pleasure to share my experiences with you and your audience.

[18:43] Jennifer Apple: And to our listeners, thank you for joining us for this episode of the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. We hope you found it as inspiring as we did. Until next time!

[24:30] Jennifer Apple: Welcome back to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. Today, we’re concluding our Casting Director Mini-Series with the incredible Bess Fifer.

[25:00] Bess Fifer: Thank you for having me, Jennifer. I’m excited to dive into our conversation today.

[25:30] Jennifer Apple: Absolutely! So, Bess, you’ve had such a remarkable career in casting, especially with your work on shows like "Severance." What do you think has been the key to building longevity in this industry while still protecting your creative vision?

[26:00] Bess Fifer: That’s a great question. I think it really comes down to staying true to your values and your vision. It’s easy to get caught up in the hustle and the pressure of the industry, but I’ve found that when I focus on the projects that resonate with me and align with my beliefs about representation and inclusivity, that’s when I feel the most fulfilled.

[26:30] Jennifer Apple: I love that. It’s so important to define success on your own terms. Can you share a bit about how you navigate the freelance hustle and maintain that balance?

[27:00] Bess Fifer: Sure! It’s definitely a challenge. I try to set boundaries for myself, both in terms of the projects I take on and my personal time. I also make it a point to connect with other artists and collaborators who share my vision, which helps create a supportive network.

[27:30] Jennifer Apple: That’s such a valuable insight. Speaking of support, what advice do you have for actors approaching self-tapes?

[28:00] Bess Fifer: One of the most important things is to approach your self-tapes with a strong perspective. Know your character and what you want to convey. Also, pay attention to the framing and sound quality. It can make a huge difference in how your performance is received.

[28:30] Jennifer Apple: Those technical aspects are often overlooked. Why do you think asking thoughtful questions during the audition process can signal professionalism?

[29:00] Bess Fifer: Asking questions shows that you’re engaged and invested in the role. It demonstrates that you’re not just going through the motions; you’re thinking critically about the character and the story. It can really set you apart from others who may not take that extra step.

[29:30] Jennifer Apple: That’s such a great point. As we wrap up this mini-series, what final thoughts do you want to leave our listeners with about building a creative life?

[30:00] Bess Fifer: I want to remind everyone that building a creative life is about finding your version of success. It’s not just about the jobs you book but also about showing up with generosity and trusting that good work will be recognized in time.

[30:30] Jennifer Apple: Thank you, Bess. Your insights have been incredibly valuable, and I’m sure our listeners will appreciate your perspective on the industry.

[31:00] Bess Fifer: Thank you, Jennifer! It’s been a pleasure to share my experiences with you and your audience.

[31:30] Jennifer Apple: And that wraps up our Casting Director Mini-Series. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you in Season 4!

[36:45] Bess Fifer: Doing their work, what is ultimately the thing that you're quote unquote looking for, which I know is like a bizarre, you can't, it's not tangible, but... Yeah, yeah. I hope I don't forget what you just asked, because the one thing that I do want to say is, you know, somebody actually messaged me, an actor that I know pretty well, and was like, about Brit's tape, and it was like, did you guys ask for her to be like, people to shoot against the floor, do these things? And, you know, um, because I think a lot of people get very caught up in like, trying to stage a scene. Yeah. Right? And so I think, you know, you can look at Brit's tape, and you can see all of that. And then I think, but I think the answer to his question was, well, I knew what it was.

No, we didn't ask for that. You know, we just asked, we want to see you, and we want to hear you. But knowing what that scene was, which you can watch, it's basically the opening of the entire show. She made a decision based on what she felt like was going to work best for her as an actor in the moment to shoot the scene. And that's as simple as that should be. Right? For her, because she had to wake up on essentially a table and create half of this on a table. You know, I don't, it doesn't seem like she had somebody really like shooting for her, you know, but like, she wanted to create an intimate situation. And that worked best, right? That is not something that casting directors expect you to do, but create a visual perspective.

Right? We expect you to create a character perspective. And those are the things that stand out on a self tape, because the hardest part about all actors doing all of these self tapes is that we're no longer being able to give you direction and redirection with your tapes. Right? And I feel for actors, because I see you guys, and I hope this sounds good, but I see you as beautiful clay, right? And you have all of this potential and can, and, and strength and surface and can fill all of, you know, what a director needs you to fill, right? But you have to have some sort of molding or idea, or be given some sort of direction of what shape you're supposed to be, right? And so, A, as a casting director, I'm trying to think of advance and say, you know, because it used to come so naturally, right?

I'd see a bunch of people for a role and by, you know, sorry, first and second people, but generally by the third person, you know exactly what direction needs to be given to each character. It just, it just becomes obvious. Now, sometimes you might be fine tuning each actor's little, that's the redirection, right? But you kind of get into a role of like, okay, here's what you're going to need to know in order for me to know that you're in the right place. Here, I know what you're missing, right? Here's the backstory. Here's whatever directorial tone, whatever that is, here's what you need to know as an actor before you do this thing. And then let's see if we need to adjust how you approach it, right?

So, as a casting director, I'm trying to be better about thinking ahead to those things and, and saying, what, what, what do I think this direction is going to be? Problem solving in advance. What's, what would the in room direction then be, right? What I can't do, of course, is redirect. So, the important thing, I think, for an actor doing a self-tape, it's just to pick a strong perspective and go with it. In the idea that if you were right for the role, we can then show a director and say, look, this just means a redirection, as opposed to, I'm not quite sure if they're right, if they're filling this space. No, this is a cold tape with no direction, and they made a strong choice. So, I can see whether you are not need to just say if it's a redirection issue, or maybe you're not right for the role.

So, go ahead and make that strong choice, even if it's wrong, because I would rather it be wrong, and you'd be right for the role, right? I'm not going to blame you on your choices, but I will blame you on your lack of choices.

[43:02] Bess Fifer: Yeah, yeah, you can't give somebody direction based off of nothing. You have to give them direction based off of something. And if they made a choice, then you can give them a correction or a redirect. But if yet there was no point of view, then where are we going? And where are we going? I don't know how to I don't I can't say, hey, I see what they're doing. I know this actor, I know what they're capable of. They just need a redirect. Or it's very simple for me to say, okay, great. I may have, you know, been able to have 40 people tape for this role. But these are the 10 people I think would be worth, you know, setting a chunk of time aside to just give them a quick redirect, right? Because I no longer really have self, you know, zooms take actually even longer than in room auditions used to take, right?

And so then you're like, losing your ability to then watch the tapes that people are taping. So it's a we don't have the ability to zoom everyone that we would want to zoom. Right? Or like do the in person because it just it all takes much longer. It's actually much more. I think you know, as an actor, it's a lot. It takes a lot more out of you to be present and to communicate and to act over zoom. And so I know actors have to do it, you know, and that's part of your job of the auditions. And so all I can say to that is, turn it to the other side. And what if you were doing that scene, but you were doing it with 30 different people over zoom? Right, right. And so that's where that repetitive and so and then also, it's just, you spend a lot of time getting people to a zoom audition place and not working on actually the structures of the acting, which is why I think that self tapes are better than zoom auditions.

Because you can you can control more of the in room perspective, you control your sound, you control how you're looking, you have a reader in the room with you that you can look at. But I don't like the stress of actors then being like, Oh, I have to have this big backdrop, and I have to have sound and I have to, you know, and I'm getting a lot of times where I do jump on a zoom call. And I can tell that there is the computer, like the camera is here, but their computer is here. So even though I'm here to read to them, they're still just staring into a blank camera, which then gives you a complete dissect, because I don't know if you can act with another person, you're acting with a camera. Right. And so yeah, it's just gotten very convoluted. And I think even more so you're doing a self tape, find a perspective, just got to choose.

[46:03] Bess Fifer: Yeah, when it comes to people submitting, you know, whether they have reps, or whether they're unrepresented, or whether they, you know, found a project that you're working on, and, you know, do kind of like a little like, don't necessarily call me in for an audition, but like, Hi, here I exist of it all. What for you is a helpful way of being communicated to when somebody is trying to pitch themselves for something? What have you found successful in that? Well, I have a website, you know, www.pfeiffercasting.com, you know, that my email is on the website, I am somebody who's always like, you know, send me send me a submission, I have an email address, specifically for submissions, so that you can always send it to me.

Generally, I think, you know, after you've introduced yourself to me, you follow up when you have something I can see, either you're inviting me to come see you, or you're saying, here is a link or these things. I've never been a fan of like agents sending me their client self tapes for other projects, because I worry about the privacy of the other project. And then as a casting director, if I was like somebody sending their severance clients tapes out, but like, okay, y'all, I'll find an NDA and like, is the episode out and you know, anyway, I just sends me down a mental rabbit hole when I'm trying to be present. And yet at the same time, I think, you know, actors may be saying, Oh, I didn't audition this, but I have these sides.

And I just want to do this. And this is just me auditioning, right? Because I think as actors in a way that you guys can create, to keep your art going, is just is just to act whether it is an audition, whether it is or going out, right, you can, you know, take a moment and, you know, read a play and act out a play in your living room, like maybe it's not real, but it exercises the muscle and keeps you, you know, as an actor, you need to be vocally dexterous, right? So you can't just go into, I'm an introvert, I love to sit alone and maybe not talk for hours and hours at a time. But an actor who isn't working for a long period of time, you can't lose this muscle, right? And so you got to just like, you have to exercise it and it can't just be your normal speech pattern, because acting isn't always your normal speech pattern. So, yeah.

[48:04] Bess Fifer: Yeah. And for, I guess, going back just like a hair to, you know, we have to see, we have to hear you. What are your thoughts, though, as to say, props, say to an unconventional environment? Obviously, we see a very specific example here. But what are your thoughts generally for people, quote unquote, breaking the rules? Or are there rules at all? Or is it just you need to know for yourself in order to make, you know, to have a point of view? What is the best way to tell the story? And then you are open to it? Like, what is that? I mean, I think, you know, framing is important, is more important than what's happening behind you or what's in your hand or everything, right? Because we're not in the room with you. Right. And so what is more important to me, like I said, see and hear, you have good sound, you have good lighting. And I want I want you to be about right here. Right. And so.

[49:00] Bess Fifer: Intention still reads. If you need to pick up your phone and go like this, the intention reads and you don't necessarily need to be here where I'm seeing it. And so I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is an audition should be a close-up. Right? And as an actor, you should know your framing in any scene so that you know how to act within the scene and whether the scene on paper would shoot as a close-up to shot, whatever. Your audition is still going to be a close-up. And that is the exercise of auditioning, right? Because it's not what you're going to do on set. It's literally what you're just going to do right here because we got to be able to see you. And I'm not going to read as much from here in your nuance as I am from here in your nuance because on-camera acting is all about this.

And it's not about what you're saying. It's about what you're hearing and how you're processing, right? The interestingness of on-camera acting is not watching somebody's lips move. It's watching somebody's process and hear it and laugh or cry, right? It's the voyeurism of TV and film that we love so much that we don't get from theater because we're way back here and they don't get to be as intimate because it won't read from the balcony. And so TV and film is the way that we get to get so close to somebody that we've never met and watch them go through the human experience in literally a bird's eye view, right? And so that's what I need to know if you can do. I don't need to know if you can hand something to somebody, right?

I don't need to know that you can drink the glass of water. I need to know that you can take the beat. Why did you drink the glass of water? You drank the glass of water because you were stalling. Why were you stalling? Because you needed to think of what you were saying, because you were deflecting, blah, blah, blah. That's what I'm looking for.

[51:23] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I'm obsessed with the, for anybody who did not tune into the video version of whatever just took place, go onto YouTube and watch it. Because I mean, just even watching, I know you don't self-identify as like an actor, but even just the way you were being so specific with the movement of just to show what you were referring to was so cinematic and clear. And so I think it was a very helpful visual representation of exactly the difference of how things read. And I think, yeah, you know, especially for many of us who started in theater and are transitioning into TV film or, you know, do both or, you know, have at least a background or training in some sort of theatrical stage space, you know, so often that transition, it shouldn't necessarily be, it's not about big or small, but it's just recognizing what the medium is and what the medium requires of you and how can you frame it in a way that brings in those elements that are required for a visual medium.

I think using that as a helpful reframe versus like, oh my God, all of a sudden now I cannot be so quote unquote big. It's like, no, no, no, what is natural and organic? How much do you let out? That's what it's how much do you let out on stage? You got to let it all out. It's got to all come out. It's going to be full part of your physical being. Right. And then we get smaller, we get more and more and more internal. But at the same time, the same things in your brain as an actor should be happening. It's just how much you let it out.

[52:59] Bess Fifer: Yeah. What do you find sticks with you in the work that you do? Is it, you know, somebody's self-tape that like leaves an impression for some reason? Is it the feeling that somebody gives you when you meet them in a Zoom room? Like when you are going to sleep at night, what are some of the things that energetically you're like, this is what I remember or like what leaves me with an impression at the end of the day? I think, I mean, honestly, I just like when somebody looks like they had a good time. You know, so especially when we do get to do like those Zoom callbacks and you just know that somebody felt good about their work. And I mean, that was my joy of being in the room when somebody would even be like, they enjoyed the process.

Right. Because as we've gone back to as an actor, you have to find those moments to be able to act. Right. And the moments you're going to get the most are the moments in which you're auditioning. And so for me, when somebody just enjoyed acting, you know, in the room with me, you know, and felt like they had had a moment of art. That was really like the joy to me, you know, somebody like, thank you, that was fun. Those were the moments like, that's awesome. And that was always the biggest thing for me was an actor's comfort in the room. You know, I spent a lot of time, I spent five years in a very working for Bernie Telsey and Telsey and Company and I did a lot of commercials, which commercials can be up to like 200 people a day, because you might bring them in four or five people at a time, right.

And at that point, you know, people, actors are coming in, they don't always know who's going to be in the room, right. And so for me, it was the best thing when somebody would walk in the room, and they would see me. And it would make them happy to see because they knew they were going to be well cared for. And so I think that's just I like, you know, I think we all like feedback. And so for me, when I first started doing like, I do one sheets on top of all my sides, to try and give direction to try and give the actor direct information about the role, the breakdown, tone, all those things. And, you know, and I also provide an email address to the actor to say, if you have questions, this is an email address that you can reach me and I will answer your questions.

And, you know, when I first started doing those, I just got a really positive feedback because the actors felt supported. And my job is to get the best performances out of you to get you a job. And when you get a job, and you do the job successfully, I look good. Yeah. And so I need you to be well supported. So it's still the joy to me knowing that an actor felt like they went through the process and still had some sort of connection and a human experience.

[55:40] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. It also is, you know, it's really beautiful to hear that your process is to just like very explicitly to say, like, I want you to get the job because ultimately, like that feedback loop is exactly what we're all here for. You know, and I think so many artists sometimes get discouraged being like, well, that, you know, the casting director isn't on my side. It's like, you wouldn't have you know how many people submitted for this appointment, you know, you got the appointment, like, clearly, they see something in you and are trying to maybe you're they believe that you can be the puzzle piece for this. And it makes everybody's lives easier when they fill that puzzle. Like, like, let's all get clear.

I won't say we are as disappointed as you are. But we are also disappointed when you are not right for the role. We want you to solve our problem. Right? When I get a script, I have however many speaking problems. Yeah. And that's just how my brain works. I like to problem solve. So I think it was like, Okay, I got 50 speaking problems right now. So who I want you to solve my problem, because then my job is easy. And it's like, amazing. So whenever I'm watching a tape, whenever I'm seeing in somebody in person, when I see you, and I know I have at least one option to solve my problem, that makes me so happy. But also, I want you to succeed as you and you because I was like, I like your look, you feel right.

I like your vibe. I want you to be right for this. And it's like, we tried it. It didn't work. It doesn't mean I don't like you anymore. It means I'm going to wait for the next thing that I feel like you're really right for. And we'll try it again. But we go back to the opportunity versus being right for something. And for artists, those things have to coincide. Unfortunately, know the casting directors are on your side, at least most of us anyway, you know, know that all of us, a lot of us are struggling in the same way, because we're, you know, there's a lot less jobs for us too.

[57:32] Bess Fifer: And I think another thing, don't be afraid to ask questions, just ask questions. If people aren't going to answer you, like just know that maybe they're dicks, but like try, because there are people out here who are like here and ready to answer your question.

[57:45] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I think there's an idea, at least, and I'll speak on behalf of myself, you know, there's an idea of, and again, like, I don't consider myself somebody who like, I consider myself probably more of like a rule breaker than a rule follower. But there is like, you don't want to be that person that like somehow makes an impression on somebody that are like, Oh my god, this person is insert whatever. And so, you know, the etiquette around asking the questions or, you know, getting the clarity that you need in order to do your best work feels somehow like you're overstepping sometimes. And so that's a helpful reminder. Asking a question does not mean that you don't know what you're doing. It means you're thinking about it and you want clarity. I just I've never been like ask the question.

[58:29] Bess Fifer: Yeah, I love that. Congratulations on everything that's happening in your life. And simultaneously, I hope that these next five years continue to be the easiest years of your career. Let's hope for all of us, right? No more strikes and pandemics. And yeah, truly. And I'm really excited for, you know, again, as we talk about success and what that is and awards and blah, blah, blah, and who what does that mean? And yada, yada, yada. But I just I really am excited that you are getting this recognition and the people that you have facilitated their opportunities for are also getting their recognition, because I really do believe that, you know, that karma is is real. And then that gives people the faith and the trust to reach out to good people and you're one of them.

And so I'm glad that that's happening for you. And so I'm excited and congrats in advance and good luck on all the things. But also, it doesn't ultimately really, quote unquote, matter. It's just like being a good person. And with all of that, thank you for giving us the time to hear your perspective as you've been navigating all of it and the way in which you've been so candid with it and open and vulnerable through all of it. I'm just so appreciative. So thank you.

[59:45] Bess Fifer: It's great to be here. For anybody who wants to follow your work or reach out or, you know, see the happenings where within your boundaries is the best place for people to find you. Yeah, I have a website fifercasting.com and Instagram is at castingbybeth. Obsessed. Thank you so much for being here. Great to meet you.

[1:00:11] Jennifer Apple: That's it for today's episode. I hope you walk away with some fresh insights, feel inspired and a little more empowered to take the next step on your artistic journey. Remember, whether it's a small shift or a big breakthrough, every step forward counts. You've got this and we're here cheering you on every step of the way. If you found today's episode helpful, don't forget to hit subscribe so you'll never miss out on the discussions we have each week. And if something today really resonated with you, please leave us a review. It truly is one of the best ways to help other artists find our podcast and join in on the conversations. Plus, we feel the love too when you do. And don't keep all this goodness to yourself.

Share this episode with your people or post about it on social media. Be sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can see what's landing for you and keep the conversation going. As always, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. And thank you for being a part of this incredible community. Keep creating, keep thriving, stay empowered. I'm Jennifer Apple. Until next time.