This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jennifer Apple: Hello! Welcome to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Apple, a multi-hyphenate actor, educator, acting coach, writer, dog mom, and founder of this vibrant community that champions artists as they carve out their own unique paths in this wild industry. Whether you're just starting out, in the thick of it, or seeking a bit of artistic fuel to expand your toolbox, you're in the right place. In this space, we'll have honest conversations, share actionable strategies, tips, and resources, and delve into the messy yet beautiful journey of living a sustainable, creative life. We unmask the reality of life as an artist, from navigating career highs and lows to nurturing your full human well-being.

I chat with women and non-binary guests who share their personal stories, helpful learnings, and hearts to help you unlock your artistic potential, expand your knowledge, and show up fully and fearlessly in your artistry and daily life. Before we dive into this week's conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. If today's chat resonates with you, please leave us a review. It helps us reach even more incredible artists just like you. And hey, feel free to spread the love! Share this podcast with a friend or post it on your socials, making sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can chat with you there. Alright, grab a cup of something cozy, settle in, and let's get to it.

[1:22] Jennifer Apple: What does it mean to devote nearly two decades to a cycle of work while also leaping into entirely new forms? In this episode of our Playwright miniseries, I sit down with playwright, TV writer, and educator Mfoniso Udofia. Mfoniso shares how writing came from a place of healing and purpose, and how her nine-play cycle has grown into an expansive, intergenerational exploration of identity, hope, and belonging. She talks about finding a trusted circle of collaborators, knowing how to keep the emotional spark within the editing process, the challenges of finding balance, and the grief of letting go of a long creative chapter. Together, we discuss her transition into writing for TV, learning the craft of image-driven storytelling, adjusting to the collaboration of a writer's room, and understanding the unique desires of different networks.

With takeaways on finding your voice, nurturing what excites you in your own work, and learning when to listen and when to stand firm, this conversation is equal parts inspiration and toolkit for artists and writers navigating all mediums. Enjoy.

[2:26] Jennifer Apple: Mfoniso Udofia, welcome to the space.

[2:29] Mfoniso Udofia: Hello. I'm so happy to be here.

[2:32] Jennifer Apple: Y'all, I just, I'm really pumped because, I mean, this is going to sound really maybe creepy, but Mfoniso is an alum of the same grad program that I went to at ACT, and her work has been, like, going at places that I've seen it, and also places that I've worked, and also just, like, featuring people that I love and adore, and, like, I feel like your creative space has just, like, it's, it's, like, in my space, and I just, I'm so excited to learn more and know more and understand your process and you as a human and an artist, and I'm just, I'm really pumped. So, thank you for being here.

[3:09] Mfoniso Udofia: Thank you.

[3:11] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[3:11] Mfoniso Udofia: I'm just happy to be here. I don't, I woke up this morning and went, this is what I got today. Great.

[3:16] Jennifer Apple: I love it. And that's all we can start from. So, with that, who are you today?

[3:22] Mfoniso Udofia: Um, I am Mfoniso Udofia. I still am her, which is great, because there's some days I, like, wake up and I'm, like, I don't know who I am today. Um, I am somebody's playwright, somebody's TV writer, an educator, uh, who covered herself in a bouquet of flowers to remind herself that life is good. That's who I am today.

[3:47] Jennifer Apple: Do you have a particular, like, favorite flower?

[3:50] Mfoniso Udofia: I love a dahlia.

[3:53] Jennifer Apple: Okay.

[3:53] Mfoniso Udofia: I, I love any kind of flower where there are multiple, like, uh, pieces or buds, or there's some kind of twisty going. So, like, I, I would, like, look at, like, the pistons or the interior of a flower going, that's complicated. So.

[4:11] Jennifer Apple: And this is how I know you're a writer, because the word piston has never come out of my mouth. I feel like I know what it is now that I've seen you, like, visually put your fingers to it, but I'm, like, a piston, yes, inside the flower.

[4:22] Mfoniso Udofia: I hope that I even said the right thing.

[4:25] Jennifer Apple: No one's going to correct you.

[4:27] Mfoniso Udofia: They should though. They should. Sometimes the things that come out of my mouth are highly suspect. Anyway, yeah.

[4:34] Jennifer Apple: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you for being here and bringing the flower glory. I'm curious to hear, you know, you obviously have had a beautifully, like, ornate and blossoming career that started from actor land.

[4:53] Mfoniso Udofia: It did.

[4:54] Jennifer Apple: So I would love to hear how that started and how you come to where you are now.

[5:01] Mfoniso Udofia: Yeah, I actually, it's been circuitous. I've been here, there, and everywhere. I, my parents told me that I was going to be a lawyer. Very, very Nigerian in a way that Nigerians might actually roll their eyes now and be like, we all were going to be lawyers, doctors, engineers, or somebody, you know? And so I definitely thought that. And I had, my first trainings were in music, and I was really doing music in order to get into school, because how else are you going to pay for things? So I needed every scholarship, and so I did every, I did everything I could. And so it took me a second, and it was at Wellesley, to understand that the thing that's my hobby can also be my life, my job choice. And so I, it was at Wellesley where I pivoted away from political science and lawyering, thinking that I was going to do that into something like singing, and then that moved into acting, and that's where I went to ACT. I made my parents really confused by my choices. And that's how I, that's how I started, and I loved it. I love stories, and I love storytelling, so my first way in was as an actor.

[6:19] Jennifer Apple: And then how did the writing begin, or why? Or was there a moment that was like, this must be said, or actually I'm seeing, and they're not being done the way, like what was the spark, or was there a spark, or how did that all start?

[6:31] Mfoniso Udofia: There were many sparks. I mean, the first spark was, it was 2009. I am part of that millennial class where every bad thing that happened, or could happen, happened. So I get out of ACT, and I can't find a job. People aren't going to the theater. It's like 2009, the height of the Great Recession. People aren't going to the theater anymore, because who can afford that? Nobody has jobs either. And so the way I dealt with it, a lot of pain was to write, and I wrote in the last form I studied, which is playwriting. So that's how my writing came out of me. I wasn't like in my head going, I am going to be a writer. It was, I need to get these thoughts and these feelings out. And then I was also acting, and at that moment, I couldn't book an acting job to save my life, and a part of it was my, my type, where I have a certain look, and I am Black.

I am thick. I'm pretty bright and bubbly, but I'm not necessarily like the, what those parts are. I'm not that, right. There was a way we used to say it, which I don't say as much anymore, but I'm just going to say it, because that's how we said it. I'm not a great sassy girl sidekick. I'm just not. I am, when acting, either sweeter or tougher, and I couldn't, I couldn't find the parts for me. So writing became the way I processed a lot of hurt, and a lot of pain, and then that starts taking off. That career takes off before I've even said in my mind that I'm a writer.

[8:18] Jennifer Apple: Thank you for sharing that it was a personal way in. You know, I think there's, and that's why I have this series, again, to show that there isn't the, like, one way for the, quote-unquote, title that people have that they associate with human beings that, like, oh, they're a playwright, therefore they must do it this way, and I'm, I'm really on a mission to, like, you know, take that and kind of synthesize it into, like, no, actually, there's so many ways to be it. There's so many ways to enter it. There's so many ways to embrace it, and so I, I applaud you for, you know, leaning into it as a form of healing and knowing that that's a way that you were able to process for yourself, and your work is clearly a reflection of personal life things that you know or surround yourself with, and so I'm curious to unpack your cycle.

Like, this is, like, it's epic. To unpack it, too. I don't know. Right. I mean, was that something that you sought out to do, or was it, like, oh, wow, now I'm peeling back this onion, and oh, wow, there's so much more, and it just has to keep happening? Was it, which was more of the egg?

[9:34] Mfoniso Udofia: It was more, okay, like, the first play I wrote was The Grove, which just, the title of it, The Grove, I just actually got a production of it. Oh, goodness, what is time? Time is a flat circle, and every day is, like, Wednesday. I think, was it two or three months ago? Yikes, my brain. As directed by Oye Tempo, but that play was 16 years old. It was the first play I'd ever written, and I thought it was a standalone play, so that particular play, The Grove, when I wrote it, it was my interrogation as a Nigerian woman, what it means to self-identify when you come from a collectivist culture, and when I first wrote that play, it wasn't very, very good, and I've had to put it away for a little while, and it would, you know, over time, I'd start re-editing it, but I was, like, okay, there is something here.

I'm not certain how it's going to live. It had many readings. It had great, like, positive response, but I knew that there was something inside of it that needed to go further, and so I turned my eye to the Nigerian immigrants who'd first come to this country, who are featured in The Grove, and so that's Abasiyama Ufot and Disciple Ufot, who are my main matriarch and patriarch, and I decided to write about them and to continue following this question-based interrogation through play, and I found that as I kept doing that, more and more story unfurled underneath me, and I was endlessly fascinated about what makes people come to this country want to build, where they put their dreams, what happens when you have children, and the dreams for your children are not the dreams you had for yourself and for them, and so the cycle just grew underneath me, and then I want to say around play four or something, her portmanteau, I go back and I'm re-editing inside The Grove, and that whole starts standing up, so it was organic.

I didn't actually start out going, I'm going to write a cycle. I started out, I'm going to write one play. That one play became three plays. Three plays became five. Then five became nine, and I said in the press, it's going to be nine plays in order to make sure it didn't become 35.

[12:15] Jennifer Apple: Because you feel like there's still so much more to say?

[12:15] Mfoniso Udofia: Yeah, and also to give myself an actual end. That was important for me. At a certain point, I wanted to rest.

[12:28] Jennifer Apple: Yes, yeah, I just needed to go nine. Three sets of three felt like a wonderful amount of story to tell a hundred years, and then to leave it with enough hope at the end for Adi and Chloris, and that's joy, which is the last play. Enough hope where you know this family will continue on, that the cycle is still going, and that they are most likely fine. I'm just not writing it anymore.

[13:11] Jennifer Apple: Okay, oof, so much, so, so much, and so gorgeous, and wonderful, and I don't even know where my brain wants to go first. I guess I'll go backwards in that, how do you know when to stop? Obviously, nine as a number is a concrete framework within to play, but in terms of the stories that might still be bubbling underneath, or the angles of this character, or the world, how do you decide, and make decisions, and be decisive around your own investigation?

[13:45] Mfoniso Udofia: For me, I just made the decision, and listen, I'm about to like, run against myself, because there might be a sleeper tent to play, but like, just to be, just, anyway, I had to just make,

[14:04] Mfoniso Udofia: A decision that, um, I wanted to write other things one day. I also want to do other things. I am like a surround sound artist. I like interior design. I love to garden. And there's a way that when I am writing, it is the only creative thing that is really happening. It's like my body becomes the story. And there are times where I just I'm like, I think as I get older, it'd be nice to explore different creative modes. And so I wanted to give myself a point in a future that was I am done. Now, the reason why I think that that's funny is you just heard me go, there might be a tent. Yeah. So I also reserve the right to run retrograde to anything that I say.

[15:01] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. No, but I think you're naming something really true. You know, it's I think that's maybe why I asked, which is like, there felt like a very decisive culmination to the thing, which is necessary when we're living in a world that requires you to have like, here is a play that I can produce on a stage. Like, if that is what we're trying to do, it has to be a thing that's very tangible. And it can't be this nebulous, like, there's stuff. It's like, no, this is a thing we're doing. And I, you know, in hearing you talk about it, it's this thing that has been underneath this undercurrent for so long. And it's this family that's going to continue. And so I guess as a creative, and maybe this is me projecting, it's like, these people are living inside of you.

And they have worlds and lives that you want to continue unpacking and knowing that, like, I imagine that that duality is complicated to name, and also at some point, yes, you need to rest. It is, you know, like, to be able to say now that it's been 16 years. Yeah. Since I first started writing this cycle. And knowing in my heart, I probably won't be writing past like the 20th year of this. And that's okay. And I'm in Boston right now. I think they're putting up all my plays in Boston, which is an incredible thing. But it's also I'm entering the door of the that marks the end of this. And there is a kind of grieving that's also happening. Before my podcast with you or doing this with you, I was on a meeting for the ceremony.

I apologize, my brain's a little scattered, which is the seventh. Oh, God help me the sixth play in the cycle. And it's in that play that I have made the decision I'm not writing Disciple Ufot again. You know, and that hurts. And so before this, our moment together, I was actually tearing up while writing an edit in the room on a zoom rehearsal for Disciple to say, this is the closest he will get to telling his son he loves him. And then after this play, he will pass away. I'm going as my way of going, I'm not writing him. Oh, yeah, arc of him. And so yeah, there is also a grieving inside of it as I'm like ending and I don't know if it ends in a year or like five. Like I said, I don't know even what's happening with the 10th play. But I am my body is ending inside of this.

[17:44] Mfoniso Udofia: Yeah, yeah. And that you've grown for 16 years within it. I mean, not only to have this thing that lives on, and many parts of this thing that lives on beyond this, you know, type literal time period of your life, but now this, this work that you have that will live on forever. That it helped, I would imagine carried you as a human as an artist throughout a huge part of your life. Yeah, that's hard. Purpose. Yeah. Yeah. Many days. That was why I woke up. I woke up going, I want to write this. I want to see this. I am a part of the production for this. I am. This is my it was the anchoring of my world. It was this cycle. Yeah. And I'm and for anybody who hasn't seen this work, like go to Boston, at least for the rest of however happening and also like around the country because it's incredible.

I've had the privilege of seeing some of your plays in San Francisco, also in New York, and I just it's so impactful and human. It's so human. And obviously, it's not of my own culture. But like, people know, lineage and grief and pain and joy and these universal familial deep feelings are so, so unbelievably palpable through your work. And it's just incredible. And I it's really beautiful to hear how long it's been because I think so often so many of us are like, oh, this play was written, it's done. And it's like, no, this, this has lived and it's breathed. And it was a thing that has sat and grown and expanded and contracted. And it 16 years is not a short period of time for you to be sitting with people in your mind and heart and body.

[19:40] Mfoniso Udofia: In many ways, the cycle and myself grew up together. Yeah.

[19:46] Jennifer Apple: Hi, actor friends talking to you. If finding the perfect monologue has you feeling stuck, I've got just the thing. I've put together a free monologue selection toolkit just for you. It's packed with resources, free and paid options plus tips for choosing editing and customizing pieces to showcase you head over to Jennifer apple.net slash freebie and stop avoiding the auditions that ask for a monologue or waiting for the perfect piece to simply fall into your lap. Dive into this free toolkit that I set up just for you. That'll set you up to feel agency over your process and artistry. That's Jennifer apple.net slash freebie and get started on finding your next go to monologue.

[20:28] Jennifer Apple: I am curious to unpack your literal writing process, as you say that it sits with you and it's of you. And that in some ways you're consumed by it while it's happening. Are you the kind of person that's like, okay, on Mondays, I sit down for four hours and I write or is it like when it's consuming me, goodbye, everything else and I have to sit? Is it, I know myself and if I have a deadline, this is how I operate. Like, what is your process?

[20:50] Mfoniso Udofia: It changes per play. I don't know. I've written nine of them now and then things outside of the cycle as well. There are some plays where it's a more academic exercise where I actually need a deadline in order to like make myself get up and do the thing. And then you've gotten certain plays like run boy run, where I feel like I go into fugue state and my dreams are this play, my waking life. I'll be talking like, say I'm talking with you, but the running log is actually what is happening in that play. And those are moments where I know if you are in any kind of love relationship with me, friendship, intimate partnership, shoot, like just familial, you're like, I'm funny. So it's gone now. And I, and that's just what it is until the play comes out and I can get to the editing phase, which is a very different part of my brain, a little bit more clinical and far more technical.

So each play is different. Right now, I would say I am kind of in that fugue state with the ceremony where it's always playing in the back of my mind what's happening inside of this. And that's my thinking is always inside the play. So it depends.

[22:23] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. What is that too? And again, does that change per play and how do you stay structured? Do you read the whole thing through in order to start from where you need to start? Do you have a, you know, a thing that's like, this has to be edited. Let me go and live in this little moment. Like, what are you doing?

[22:38] Mfoniso Udofia: I have to, I have to talk to myself. Sometimes the editing is just this tiring, even though it's a different part of my brain, because I have to make sure that I am not editing out the spark in order to figure out the structure and make it or give it legs. How do you do that for you?

[23:05] Mfoniso Udofia: The worst, the worst, the hardest was The Grove, which just got its world premiere, but I wrote it 16 years ago. I think I was talking about how that was a play, which is interrogating what it means to individualize within a collectivist culture. And it's also a story that is of me, has a bit of me inside of it, in that it is a queer African woman who is struggling with internalized homophobia. And also dealing with a Nigerian ancestral spirit that lives inside of her. And so when I read it, it's almost, it had an emotional logic to it. But it needed more structure, actually. Yeah. And so I was in the edit realizing that sometimes my desire to give it structure was pulling away from the emotional movement.

And so I had to stop that hand or else I would gut the heart of the play. Yeah. And ask myself to slam myself into my 16 year old, like go back 16 years and put myself into that body. Remember those emotions, which I no longer live inside of in the same way. Yeah. With this structural brain, go, okay, this moment is imperfect, but it's going to live because it is emotionally correct.

[24:55] Mfoniso Udofia: Right. Right. So it was, it was a, it was a, I don't know how to like explain it more technically. I was moving from the top through the end. I wasn't like partitioning it out. I had to, I usually have to edit and flow state. For things like The Grove, it was actually really important to talk to people who had known me around that time. And that is why it's so wonderful. I was working with Awoye because she could stop my hand in certain places and be like, I think you don't touch that. And I trusted her enough to know, okay.

[25:33] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, it's one of the hardest things to do is talk about that kind of process. Yeah. But I needed help from people around me who knew me 16 years ago. And then I needed to continually put myself back in that body as much as possible with the new structural tools that I had to know when to use them and when to let it go.

[26:03] Mfoniso Udofia: Yeah. Well, that brings me to another question of your, I guess, the community that you do lean on, use for assistance, trust. Do you have folks that are like every, like when you have a play, and obviously with this cycle, it's been a bit of a different kind of journey than say, a one that's just living on its own. But when you are working on a play, and it's newer, are you bringing in similar folks that you've now had to read it out loud at various points throughout? Do you have a say director or director friends that you're like, I need you? Who are the people and how do you use them? And how do you trust them differently in those dynamics?

[26:38] Mfoniso Udofia: I do. There are some dramaturges that I work with who know my work really, really well. There is Catherine Kovner, who I work with a lot, who programmed Sojourners for the 2014, I believe so, at Playwrights Realm. And so, I mean, she's been around for a long time inside of the cycle and knew me when I was a baby writer. So has learned how to talk to me, give me a note. And usually every play goes to her. My partner, Donetta, knows me and knows the plays really well. And so every play pass goes through her. There are reasons, like Oye has actually directed in some form, every single one of the plays. And even if it is not always her who will ultimately do a production, she knows what the plays are.

And so I can talk to her through how things have moved. And then you've got people like Loretta Greco, who's been programming them for a while and who I know and who has been in this world. So I've accumulated a group of people who've known me over a span of time and who also won't yes me alongside, you know, I mean, I know you did a podcast with her as well, Ngozi, who will come.

[28:38] Jennifer Apple: Welcome back to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. Today, we continue our Playwright Mini-Series with the incredible Mfoniso Udofia. Mfoniso, it's so great to have you here.

[29:08] Mfoniso Udofia: Thank you for having me, Jennifer. I'm excited to be here and share my journey.

[29:38] Jennifer Apple: You’ve dedicated nearly two decades to your Ufot Family Cycle, which consists of nine plays. Can you tell us what that journey has been like for you?

[29:58] Mfoniso Udofia: Absolutely. It’s been a long and transformative process. Each play in the cycle has allowed me to explore different facets of identity, hope, and belonging, particularly from the perspective of my Nigerian-American heritage.

[30:08] Jennifer Apple: That sounds profound. How did you find the emotional spark to keep going through such a lengthy creative endeavor?

[30:18] Mfoniso Udofia: It really came from a place of healing and purpose. Writing has always been a way for me to process my experiences and connect with my roots. The characters in my plays often reflect parts of myself and my family, which keeps the emotional connection alive.

[30:28] Jennifer Apple: I love that. Finding a trusted circle of collaborators must also play a significant role in your process. How did you go about building that community?

[30:38] Mfoniso Udofia: Yes, collaboration is key. I sought out people who share my vision and values. It’s important to have a supportive network that understands the emotional weight of the work. We lift each other up and push each other to grow.

[30:48] Jennifer Apple: That’s so important. As you transitioned into writing for television, what were some of the challenges you faced?

[30:58] Mfoniso Udofia: The biggest challenge was adjusting to the collaborative nature of a writers' room. In theater, I’m used to having more control over my work, but in TV, it’s about teamwork and compromise. Learning to navigate that was a learning curve for me.

[31:08] Jennifer Apple: What have you learned about image-driven storytelling in this new medium?

[31:18] Mfoniso Udofia: Writing for television requires a different approach. You have to think visually and consider how the story translates on screen. It’s about creating moments that resonate not just through dialogue but through imagery and action.

[31:28] Jennifer Apple: That makes a lot of sense. How do you balance your creative pursuits with the emotional toll they can take?

[31:38] Mfoniso Udofia: It’s a constant balancing act. I’ve learned to prioritize self-care and set boundaries. It’s essential to step back and recharge, especially when dealing with heavy themes in my work.

[31:48] Jennifer Apple: And what about the grief of letting go of a long creative chapter? How do you navigate that?

[31:58] Mfoniso Udofia: Letting go is incredibly difficult. I’ve had to remind myself that every ending is also a new beginning. It’s about honoring the work I’ve done while being open to new possibilities.

[32:08] Jennifer Apple: That’s a beautiful perspective. For artists and writers navigating their own journeys, what advice would you give them about finding their voice?

[32:18] Mfoniso Udofia: Trust your instincts and don’t be afraid to explore what excites you. Your voice is unique, and it’s important to nurture that. Listen to feedback, but also know when to stand firm in your vision.

[32:28] Jennifer Apple: Thank you for that wisdom, Mfoniso. It’s been such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.

[32:38] Mfoniso Udofia: Thank you, Jennifer. I’ve enjoyed our conversation and hope it inspires others on their creative journeys.

[42:12] Jennifer Apple: Head to EmpoweredArtistCollective.com slash podcastpromo to register and claim this special offer. That's EmpoweredArtistCollective.com slash podcastpromo. I cannot wait to help you find monologues you absolutely adore.

[42:27] Jennifer Apple: How is it in this collaborative space too then with other folks who are writers in their own right and also as you're creating together? How did you adapt to that? What were some of the things that you feel have been really beneficial to your own writing? Do you enjoy that kind of process?

[42:45] Mfoniso Udofia: I do now. In the beginning, I was like, bro, I said what I said. Why are we having such like an interrogation on this? I was used to being the singular because that's what you are when you're the playwright. The buck stops with you. If you don't want something to happen, it will not happen. That is not the case in TV. The reason why you have so many different people at a table is so that no element of story is abandoned. It's also so that every vantage point can be held, so that there can be wonderful fights over what the story needs to do to build the best story. It took me a while to understand what that kind of collaboration was because I was coming from playwriting and maybe also my own personal temperaments going, but this is what I wrote.

People were like, I could care less. I could care less because that will actually stop the story from moving forward. I know that you think that that's great, but it's going to kill us by mid-season. This is what we ought to do. I had to learn how to listen. I had to learn how to pitch a pitch story. I started out going, this is what the story is. Not the thing to do. To move that to this is what the story could be. Then into that going, oh, I see your pitch. In order to move the story forward, I give you a story beat that can make you do that. Now to the point of going, oh, I could see an entire story arc. Bear with me here. Here's what that story arc is. Anybody want to take a look at beat eight and go, how do we make that better? Because I think my turn could be wrong. I have to learn.

[45:05] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. Now that you are balancing the TV writer's room hat with your own personal plays, finishing this cycle, continuing to develop new stuff besides the cycle, how are you finding that things maybe bleed stylistically or structurally? Are you finding that? How do you balance your creativity when it's needed in so many places?

[45:27] Mfoniso Udofia: The bleeding and the blossoming and the balancing, all these B words currently, how are we doing them? The balancing is a thing I still struggle with. I won't say that, I mean, if you all have, if anybody here has listened to other interviews with me, they'd be like, oh, she's still dealing with the same thing. I am, this is a tiring thing to be using your brain this much. And the, you know, I said it before, every day is Wednesday, time is a flat circle. And the new thing is like Swiss cheese brain, where they're like, sometimes I'm like, reaching for words that should be there. And I know it's about brain exhaustion. Yeah. So when you talk about balancing, I am in the middle of a balancing act where there is, there are nine plays going up in Boston.

And I am working on one writer's room right now and have, I think, two development things going right now, alongside some musicals. And then trying to maintain my friendships, my relationships with family, intimate partner relationships. And that can cause real stress. And so I'm inside of something that is maybe not as sustainable. And, you know, it is why I say, also, to get to the brass tacks of it, at a certain point, I must be done with the UFO cycle. And I must have the plays at a place where I'm like, this is great. I might revisit and re-edit at a later time, but they exist. And then I am starting to exercise nose in film and TV. And now I need to stick to them, you know, so the only person who can balance it will be me.

And I have to just do it. When it comes to, though, how my TV writing might be affecting my playwriting, my playwriting affecting my TV writing, and the bleed between those, it's actually been really good for me and my writing, I think, to be within different writing modes.

[47:57] Jennifer Apple: Tell me more.

[47:59] Mfoniso Udofia: So I'll say it for a play like The Ceremony, where I'm writing a contemporary figure, and the protagonist of that is Ekong. And he is very much so ported into television and music in a way my other protagonists, like Abasiyama and Disciple, are not. I was thinking in that play frame to frame, while understanding the realities of a stage. So I was able to play inside form in a different way, going, this pushes in, that pushes out, like kaleidoscopic, as if frames are cutting in. And that was really fun. And then the way I think playwriting will affect my screenwriting is I am still a dialogue hound. Like, finding the exact way to say I love you, even though I wrote the picture, is so satisfying.

And I do think that that's why a lot of production companies, studios, whomever, they are looking to hire playwrights if they can, because that's the thing they'll fill in. It is not just the picture. There's a way then that the storytelling can get deeper through dialogue, even as you're privileging a picture. So it's been very helpful, actually.

[49:38] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. For anybody who is a playwright, or wants to lean into their writing hat more, or they want to trust themselves a bit more in their own writing capabilities or creativity, or they are wanting to get more into writer's rooms, or the writing land, if they are wanting or already do this, how or what would be some advice that you would give somebody who is like, this is, I have the feelings, I have the things to say, or I'm freaking out, or I don't know where to start, like that?

[50:03] Mfoniso Udofia: I would say, I know everybody's like, find your voice. Like, that is, like, that's not the most esoteric thing to say to somebody.

[50:20] Jennifer Apple: Yes, yes.

[50:26] Mfoniso Udofia: But there is a way, when you are scratching out on paper, a story, and there's a line that might come out of you that you look at, and you're kind of proud of it, to interrogate the why, too. Going, you're probably, there's something inside of you that's living in that line, in that monologue, and the more you know the why that made you peak, that will become your superpower over time. And so, for, I will say, for me, there was like, a formality inside the Nigerian's language, sometimes even like a hyper poetic. So, like in Run Boy Run, I think there was a line going, it all began in black. And I'm saying this because I was just inside some kind of conversation with that play. And there's a way in which the music of it, the lyricism of it, I understood I was on to something, even though I didn't know what it was.

And I just sat with it for a while. Keep turning it around, going, that's me right there, and hold that precious, while also hearing what other people are giving back to you, of course. But the nurturing of those moments that you love in your own writing is going to be so helpful for the sustain. So, I don't know if that answers that question.

[52:08] Jennifer Apple: A thousand percent it does. You know, because you, so often we, especially again, in a world where if the goal, if one's goal, or one's mission is to get something produced in some way, if that is the thing, then many voices start to enter the room. And to know when those voices are helpful, or when they're hindrances, or when sometimes they might be helpful, but you just know internally that that ultimately is going to not be in alignment with your own self, like to have that compass, I would imagine is desperately important, especially as you continue moving into the quote unquote goal land of it. Because otherwise, there's the compromise in a way that might not actually continue being in alignment. And then what are we doing?

[53:00] Mfoniso Udofia: That's right. That's right. And it's, the lesson of my life has been the balance between hard and soft. Soft enough to be able to hear what somebody is saying without rejecting it wholesale, to hear it at least to the end of the sentence, and go, I will consider. And then maybe I shouldn't say hard, but hard slash strong enough to understand what my internal is also saying. So that those two things can meet.

[53:29] Jennifer Apple: Ooh, beautiful. So that's so beautiful. Thank you so much for taking time out of this wild balance that you are currently in. I feel grateful and honored that you've given time to our listeners in this way and that you shared your process, your art, your mind, your heart, your spirit, and the way that you work. It's palpable even just talking to you in the way that you care and also the way that you are very specific, not precious about how you communicate. And I'm just, I'm so grateful to, A, like share it, like be an alum with you of the same space, but also to like know you as an artist and to continue championing your work. So thank you for being in this space and taking the time.

[54:15] Mfoniso Udofia: Yeah. For anybody who wants to find you, work with you, read your stuff, where within your boundaries is the best place for people to reach out?

[54:25] Mfoniso Udofia: You can find me on the Instagrams. I'm really trying to be, I'm sure my age, go find me on the Instagrams. I'm really trying to at least let people know through Instagram and Facebook what I am doing because I wasn't really on it. But yeah. And then I also have a website, www.mfonisoudofia.com. So you can find me through all of the social medias. If you do direct message me, I usually get back. It might take a month, but I try. Yeah. Yeah. And I do. I hope if there's anybody in Boston that you go out, you see a show.

[55:09] Jennifer Apple: I love it. Thank you so much for being in the space. Thank you. That's it for today's episode. I hope you walk away with some fresh insights, feel inspired and a little more empowered to take the next step on your artistic journey. Remember, whether it's a small shift or a big breakthrough, every step forward counts. You've got this and we're here cheering you on every step of the way. If you found today's episode helpful, don't forget to hit subscribe. So you'll never miss out on the discussions we have each week. And if something today really resonated with you, please leave us a review. It truly is one of the best ways to help other artists find our podcast and join in on the conversations.

Plus we feel the love too, when you do. And don't keep all this goodness to yourself. Share this episode with your people or post about it on social media. Be sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can see what's landing for you and keep the conversation going. As always, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. And thank you for being a part of this incredible community. Keep creating, keep thriving, stay empowered. I'm Jennifer Apple, until next time.