This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jordan Litz: My name is Jordan Litz and you're listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[0:15] William J Connolly: Hello and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts. He's the longest-running actor to play Fiyero in the history of Wicked on Broadway, performing an incredible 1,073 shows as the CEO of the Brotherhood of Tight White Pants. Having first joined the show as an understudy and ensemble member on tour, he's danced his way through life to leading the show on the road in the US on Broadway, including during its 20th anniversary at the Gershwin Theatre, and now direct into its 20th here in London as the West End steps into celebrating 20 years at the Apollo Victoria Theatre. So direct from his home here in London, we reflect on a history-making time as the Winkie Prince, including how his time as an understudy under great leaders helped teach him about the power of teamwork, why there's more to Fiyero than just his looks, and how he's worked to ensure his portrayal allows the acting to lead first.

We also dive deep on introducing an American portrayal to UK audiences in this rather signature role, and why mixing in his accent with the English accents in the West End production made for a hilarious encounter when he first joined the London cast. Plus, we explore both the similarities and differences between his performance and that of Jonathan Bailey in the recent blockbuster movie, and what it was like playing Fiyero during the release of the two hit films. And he reflects on the life-changing impact this show has had on his life, his family, and his career, explaining that this was not something that I thought was possible. It's the swankify Jordan Litz here now on this, the next episode of Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

Please help me welcome to this the next episode of Eleven. He is the Broadway and now West End star that's currently leading the Brotherhood of the Tight White Pants straight into its 20th anniversary, and I'm thrilled to say that he's here to celebrate such a milestone moment for the mega musical. So I say hello Jordan Litz, how are you?

[2:06] Jordan Litz: I am wonderful, how are you?

[2:20] William J Connolly: I'm doing very well, thank you so much for agreeing to do this in what I imagine is a pretty crazy chapter in your life. You've come to these very British shores to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Wicked in London. What's it been like firstly for you stepping into not just a historical chapter but also what is so often described as this definitive production of Wicked in this rather huge and rather special space at the Apollo Victoria Theatre? How has it been so far, sir?

[2:46] Jordan Litz: This was so unexpected. You know, every year your job is not guaranteed with this show. People, usually principals stay for a year, especially on Broadway, and so at the end of every year my wife and I always joke around, okay this is it, this is the last time we make, you know, Fiero's Festified Fudge for Christmas, and this is like the last time we do all of this kind of stuff, and then, you know, joke's on me, I'll say another year, and then I really thought at the end of this last Broadway contract that this was the last time I would wear the white pants, and then who knew that this would ever come about. The West End was something that I thought was reserved for, you know, like A-list celebrities in America that would come over and launch some new show, the Hugh Jackmans of the world, and that sort of thing, so to be sort of counted among the Americans that have been able to come over here and do something is really, really special.

[3:47] William J Connolly: And there's been such an extraordinary and excited response when they announced that you were going to be coming to here. How has British audiences been so far to you, judging by social media and the reaction online?

[4:01] Jordan Litz: I think people are really, really, really happy to see you. I was unsure how it would go over, you know, having someone come in that isn't British doing the 20th anniversary of this British production of Wicked. I get the sense that I'm well-loved within the Wicked community, but coming in and kind of stealing a spot from a Brit in like such a milestone year, I wasn't sure how it was going to go over. But everybody has been so lovely, the audiences have been so warm, the cast has been incredible. It feels like a comfortable, like, cozy shirt that you put on when you want to just be happy.

[4:40] William J Connolly: And as you rightfully say, you are no stranger to the world of Wicked and playing this role. I believe, if I'm correct, that you did over a thousand performances of Fiyero. Is it a thousand in the Broadway production? Is that correct?

[4:49] Jordan Litz: Yeah, 1,073 on Broadway, 639 on the tour, and then I'm somewhere in the 150 range here on the West End now. Which is, if my math is correctly, either just under or actually just about to peak over the 2,000 mark in total.

[5:04] William J Connolly: That's a lot of shows.

[5:09] Jordan Litz: That's a lot. That's a lot of Wicked, man. That's a lot of Green Girls. It is, as I said, unexpected that that now makes me the longest-running Fiyero in the show's history, which was something that I never thought would happen. When I first started and dreamed of being on Broadway, I've said this before, but I would have been happy being like, you know, tree 11 in the background just to be on a Broadway stage. So to be the guy now for so long and be entrusted with this role is incredible.

[5:44] William J Connolly: You think because you had your time as an ensemble member and as an understudy to Fiyero on the national tour, do you think that taught you about the power of patience, but also about watching other people, learning from them, learning how to lead a company, and then actually how special this role is and how special this role has now become to you because you've seen what it feels like for other people to have ownership of him and actually sort of waited for your moment to be able to say, and now I get my time?

[6:10] Jordan Litz: I think that is part of it for sure. I got to understudy an incredible Fiyero named Kurt Hansen. He was the Fiyero on the first national tour of Wicked and then on Broadway and then again on the second national tour of Wicked. So he was one of those perennial guys that Wicked really trusted and would continue to bring back. And I actually only did about 40 performances before I took over for his paternity leave. So I didn't get a ton of time to watch because in that time I was still trying to learn my track and make sure that I knew what I was doing. But when we came back from the pandemic, they knew that I was going to be taking over two weeks after we returned from the pandemic. So we had a five-week rehearsal process and then Kurt was going to do the first two weeks and then I would take over after that.

And so in that rehearsal process, we got to kind of trade time rehearsing with the principal cast and that was where I learned so much from watching him. Not necessarily from watching him in the show but from being in a roundtable situation where I got to sit right next to the guy and see how connected he was to all of the witches and Bach. And he was just so... that cliché word dropped in, but he was just right there with them. And I wasn't used to seeing that in bootlegs of Fiyero. Typically, Fiyero can be... often he can be very attractive and sing really well and that's like the extent of it. But I think, especially based on who originated the role, Norbert Leo Butz, two-time Tony Award-winning Norbert Leo Butz, he is an acting role first and then singing and then dancing.

And I think a lot of Fiyeros forget that sometimes that I think he has to lead as an actor because he only sings a song and a half. He's on stage for, you know, an hour and 15 minutes or something like that, but a song and a half, that's it. Everything else is acting. So I think that's the mark of a truly great Fiyero. And to sit there and watch Kurt, who was a phenomenal actor, I learned a ton in that roundtable situation.

[8:37] William J Connolly: It's so interesting you say that because one of the things I remember so vividly about when I had the pleasure of seeing you play it on Broadway with MK was that you are really funny. And so often Fiyero is all the things that you just say, but also it looked like you were genuinely enjoying it. And I felt like if you're in it and then the comedy comes just that little bit easier because it's authentic and it's real. Do you think actually doing it for this period of time and perhaps even more here in the West End, it's actually given you a sense of ownership over where you can play a bit more, you can be a bit more fun with him?

[9:06] Jordan Litz: Sure, yeah. When people start and they begin to do a role as iconic as Fiyero or Elphaba or Glinda, a lot of them come in and at first try to put their mark on it immediately. There have been now 23 years of hundreds of Fiyeros that have played it that you can kind of take from and build on and mold and shape into your own. So you kind of start with what's been done and then make it your own as you go along. The comedy was not something that really came naturally to me right away. I don't consider myself a really funny human being in real life. So having Lisa, who is our Associate Director and working with Joe, working with them and having them mold my comedy was so helpful because they made me realize that the funniest lines are not over-delivered.

One of my favorite lines that he has is just after As Long As You're Mine and he says, my family has a castle in Kiamako. No one's ever there except the sentries who watch over it. We've never lived there. Where do you live? The other castle. I freaking love that line because if you don't over-deliver it and you just say like, hey, it doesn't matter. It's the other castle. Don't worry about it. And you just barrel on through. It kills every single night. But if you try and go like, well, the other castle, it comes across like you're hamming it up too much. Just say the line. Get out of the way. The writing is incredible. It will do the work for you. And having Lisa and Joe explain that to me as I went along really, really helped me find my comedy that can be so painful. And the harder you work at it, the more diminishing returns you have.

[11:01] William J Connolly: He has so many iconic moments and scenes with some of your co-stars that actually he's such a pivotal part of this story. And actually, it must be great for you to be able to have these moments with some of your cast members. I always picture Fiyero as like, he is the picture frame and the witches are the actual piece, the work of art. And oftentimes, the work of art can be really ugly if the picture frame isn't there to complement and support the actual work of art. I don't know that Fiyero can necessarily make or break the show, but he kind of can in some ways that you have to make that connection with both girls believable. Joe Mantello always talks about the love triangle between the three of them and how all three of them love each other equally, but in different ways.

I think oftentimes, Fiyero can maybe lose that love for Glinda because he does love Glinda. Just because he chooses to go with Elphaba doesn't mean that he doesn't truly deeply love Glinda in a compassionate friendship way. And that's what makes it so heartbreaking in The Second Wizard Chamber when he says, I'm going with her. And it makes it so unexpected. And particularly on Broadway, the audience can gasp at that moment because they don't see it coming sometimes. Because if you set up that relationship with Glinda and your love for her, it's just, oh God, it just really hits you in the gut when he chooses to not turn his back on her, but go off with Elphaba and leave it all behind.

[13:02] Jordan Litz: I think also as well, he's the only character in the show, including Elphaba's family and actually with Glinda, he's actually the only character that truly cares for her a hundred percent through the whole thing. Particularly as we see in that closing scene, literally just before the very end, where actually he's the ultimate protector of her. And actually that's when I feel like the audience really believe this magic and believe their love because he's the guy that shows up for her throughout all of act two. And that feels incredibly special to see this sort of journey that he gets from where he is in an incredibly different place in the second act.

[13:12] Jordan Litz: I love Fiyero's character arc. I think it's one of the strongest in the show. Maybe Glinda's is... Glinda's is definitely stronger. But I think Fiyero's right there. Act One Fiyero was very hard for me to find at first. It is very unlike Jordan Litz. Growing up I was never the class leader. I was athletic and I did stuff that could consider someone popular. But I wasn't necessarily the popular guy. I was the guy that was on the side that would participate in things and that's it. But the guy that would step out in front and say this is what we're doing and forget about all that stuff, that wasn't me. So that was "Dancing Through Life" in particular was the thing that I got the most notes on when I first started as Fiyero.

And I almost never got notes on Act Two. Act Two just came so naturally. It felt so cozy and so familiar to me. But having that swagger and that confidence to pull off "Dancing Through Life" was not at all something that came naturally to me. Has any part of Act One of Fiyero penetrated into your life as Jordan where you find yourself a little stronger and a little harder? No. It's an act. It's an act every single night, dude. I think maybe I've grown in confidence because "Dancing Through Life" is now my favorite song to sing. I love doing it. The dancing has grown on me. I have no formal dance training whatsoever. So to be surrounded by these phenomenal West End and Broadway dancers that could dance circles around me was terrifying to start.

But now I fake it pretty well enough that people believe that I actually know what I'm doing, which instills a lot of confidence in yourself to be able to pull it off. So maybe that has worn off or rubbed off on me a little bit in daily life. But it's still something that I struggle with that confidence to even carry it into an audition room, believing that you are the star of the show. But I guess that's what makes them so much fun to play.

[14:40] William J Connolly: When people talk about Wicked London, they always use this word definitive. They always talk about the fact that the London production was this sort of definitive production that saw the creative team from Broadway come back together. They very openly spoke about the changes that they made. I went through some of the remarkable ways in which they did that with Winnie and Steven this week. And they were talking about the fact that one of the biggest changes was the introduction of the British accent to this world. And that's something that you're experiencing for the first time. It is exclusive to London. Zizi and I were just talking a second ago, and she was saying that sometimes it's the pronunciation and enunciation between you and her where you do sometimes sing opposite things but the same word. Is that correct?

[16:16] Jordan Litz: Yeah, and I've kind of just turned into the skit at this point. There's that moment, she probably talked about it, but at the end of "Dancing Through Life," or at least the Courtyard scene where we walk together, and now that you met one another, it's clear to serve each other, you're perfect, you're perfect. And she says, so we're perfect together. And I say perfect together. And the first time we did it together, it was just like nails on a chalkboard. It was so clashing. It did not fit at all. But now I've taken it upon myself and it makes us giggle every night. And I hit the perfect together as hard as I can. It gets a little ridiculous at times, but we have a good time with it. But honestly, as long as you're reminded, maybe I've just morphed into Emma's vowels at this point, and she's kind of morphed into mine.

I don't notice the clash as much in that song. And maybe Chase sings it more with an American accent than you would normally do as a British actor. I feel like sometimes, particularly with the Wicked music, even people that are British tend to sing it with an American accent. For instance, Jonathan Bailey sang "Dancing Through Life" with an American accent, except for one or two moments of the, woes are fleeting. He hits that T really hard. Whereas I say, woes are fleeting. But yeah, just little bits. But he says "dancing through life" instead of "dancing through life." And I feel like all Fieros on the West End have said "dancing through life" for 20 years. But no, with Emma, Emma, I don't notice as much. But Zizi and I, oh man, she's got that proper British accent.

[18:01] William J Connolly: You were part of the 20th anniversary in 2023 on Broadway, so you've been able to feel what it's like in this 20th anniversary moment. So while it's astronomical for Broadway, and of course now, this time next week with London, to be able to celebrate those moments, did it also give you a sort of a viewpoint and an insight into how important this show has been to sort of the molecular structure of modern musical theatre? Because you get to hear people's firsthand experience of when they were in the show, how it changed their life. And perhaps from a fan perspective, just like how people show up for each other and for the different performers, you've actually been able to experience sort of the real world impacts of the show and just truly how special and singular Wicked is.

[18:44] Jordan Litz: I have a very unique perspective on this show through the years, just because I've done it in a principal capacity from before the pandemic all the way up until now. And I haven't really taken a break except for that pandemic year and a half. So I've watched it pre-pandemic. I watched the excitement of the return of musical theatre, not just Wicked, but just musical theatre in general. And oh my gosh, dude, Wicked was the first production in North America to reopen August 1st, 2021. And hearing Alison Bailey, our Glenda at the time, say that, it's good to see me, isn't it? For the first time, any production had performed in a year and a half, and the audience erupted and went crazy for two minutes straight.

It was unbelievable. To be in the room for that kind of experience is incredible. It's one of a kind. And then getting to tour the show with it for a year and a half, the 20th anniversary Fiero. They did something similar with the Pink and Green show, but that anniversary show was the craziest night of theatre I've ever experienced in my life. It felt like the opening of a brand new show, except that everybody knew every joke and every high note and every riff and every lick. So there was no hiding. Everyone that had ever been involved with the production or mattered to Wicked, and even people outside of it, Lin-Manuel Miranda, the entire Platt family, there were so many movers and shakers in that room that night, and so many fans of the show.

And you could feel the love that people had for this show. And as I said, every joke that was said got the biggest laugh. At one point, I was like, guys, we are not this funny. I appreciate the love, but this is insane. It felt like a Friends episode, like some sort of crazy sitcom with a laugh track, because it was outrageous. Every character got entrance applause. The father, the mother, Bach, me, everybody. If you were even in the ensemble, anybody, everybody got entrance applause. It was insane. Looking back, I'm so grateful that I got to be a part of the cast. It was hard to enjoy the night because the pressure was so high for that performance, which is why I'm grateful that I get to be a part of this cast, because I know what to expect.

I've been through it all before. This just feels like a lovely victory lap that I get to have, and just enjoy the ride and enjoy the experience. But then I was with the show for the release of the first movie, and then also with the show on Broadway for the release of the second movie. And watching how the audiences changed throughout that entire period, it was staggering how much the vibe of the audience changed.

[21:40] William J Connolly: You think that because you've done that 20th anniversary, and as you say, the pressure is slightly off. I know that you obviously still will show up 100% in London, but to be able to have experienced this, what do you think that moment will feel like for the people that haven't done it yet, for the people in London that are coming back to the show, or for Emma and Zizi who are experiencing this for the first time? What do you think that will feel like for them?

[22:07] Jordan Litz: I hope, at least for Emma and Zizi, that they have the night that they've always dreamed of. When Alyssa Fox and Mackenzie Kurtz were my 20th anniversary, which is on Broadway, and I remember when they finished the show and the map came down, they were so ecstatic because they had freaking crushed it. With the immense amount of pressure that they had leading up to that, and how much talk there was, and all of the craziness of the night and the two performances the day before, they smashed it out of the park. And I just wish for Zizi and Emma that they have that exact same experience, that they're able to sing the crap out of the score, connect with each other, and have a night that they can look back on and say, that was one of the greatest nights of my entire life.

And if that happens, which I think it will, because they are consummate professionals, both those girls are incredible, that will be a trickle-down effect to the rest of the cast, and that will wash over the audience as well. If it's even half the energy that that Broadway 20th performance was, it will be a night that no one will want to miss.

[23:22] William J Connolly: And very finally, if you think back to, was it the start of 2020 when you first joined the ensemble and were understudying Fiyero, through to the rather extraordinary journey that the show has taken on that you've so perfectly explained, if you think back to the Jordan then, and obviously you would be completely unaware of the journey that was about to begin, and that pretty nigh-on 2000 performances as this rather special human being, what do you think the Jordan back then would think of the fact that you've done 20 almost twice, and you've managed to do this record-breaking number of performances? Could he ever have imagined you'd be sat here in London going, yeah, I'm Fiyero in the West End?

[24:03] Jordan Litz: No, dude, at that point I was like, man, if I could be the understudied Fiyero on Broadway, that would be the dream come true. And if I could ride that out for like 10 years, that'd be amazing. I would love that. This, no, man, this was not something that I ever thought was possible. Look, I don't think I'm the most talented Fiyero there's ever been. I just think that you show up and you do your job every single day, you be as consistent as you possibly can, treat people around you with respect, and kill yourself for the show, and it will repay that back to you tenfold. And it has. My life has completely changed since I first started this show. I got married two weeks after I started rehearsals for the national tour back in January 2020.

The pandemic happened. During the pandemic, we got a dog. We moved into our dream apartment on the Upper West Side. We relaunched the tour. Julie, my wife, came out with me on tour. We traveled the country together, her and I and our dog, came back. We had our first child a month before the 20th anniversary. We bought a house the second year that I was on Broadway. We had our second child the third year on Broadway. And now we're living in a foreign country with Wicked. I am a completely different human than that guy. He was a boy, and I feel like I've become a man now after six years of life changes. Not necessarily just because of Wicked, but Wicked has been the through line through all of that, through all of that change within my life and within my family's life. Wicked has facilitated all of those incredible opportunities. This is the greatest experience of my life. That's the only way I can put it, you know.

[25:49] William J Connolly: Congratulations on a rather extraordinary journey with Wicked, and thank you so much for being with us in this 20th anniversary. I know we all feel very special that you are with us, so thank you so much. And most importantly, have the most extraordinary time next weekend. It's going to be really special.

[26:01] Jordan Litz: Thank you. Absolutely. Such a pleasure.

[26:06] William J Connolly: You've been listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast. Find out more about Eleven at elevenpodcast.com or via the Broadway Podcast Network.