Patrick Oliver Jones:

Every June, Broadway's biggest night reminds us just how thrilling and transformative live theater can be. The Tony Awards don't just celebrate excellence. They spotlight the stories, the voices, and the people who are shaping the stage and pushing it forward. Since 1947, the Tonys have been honoring some of Broadway's best, and this year is no exception with Buena Vista social club, death becomes her, and maybe happy ending leading the pack at 10 nominations each. But the Tonys also mark milestones that ripple far beyond the theater district. Just two years ago, Jay Harrison g from some like it hot along with Alex Newell became the first openly non binary performers to win a Tony award. It was a pivotal moment not just for g's life and career, but also for what the Tonys represent and who they recognize.

Jay Harrison G:

My mother raised me to understand that my gifts that God gave me were not about me, to use them to be effective in the world, to help somebody else's journey. So thank you for teaching me how to live, how to love, how to give. For every trans, non binary, gender, non conforming human, whoever was told you couldn't be, you couldn't be seen. This is for you.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I first met and worked with Jay in a production of Kinky Boots at the Muni in Saint Louis. It was a fantastic production, and Jay definitely stole the show as Lola. We discussed that role as well as his award winning turn in Some Like It Hot and talk about the community that theater brings to all actors, especially those looking for a place to belong and be their best selves. I'm Patrick Oliver Jones, and thank you for joining me on season nine of Why I'll Never Make It, an award winning theater podcast where I talk with fellow creatives about three stories or moments of personal struggle and professional hardship. Subscribers will get additional audition that's why I'llnevermakeit.com. Again, that's why I'llnevermakeit.com. Welcome, Jay. It is so good to see you again.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So good to be talking with you.

Jay Harrison G:

Thank you for having me today. Good to see you.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Now you and I got to know each other with Kinky Boots, a show that has meant a lot to you, of course, for your career. What was it about theater in general? You know, whenever you were young, what was it about that first sparked that curiosity, that interest in you?

Jay Harrison G:

Well, I've I grew up singing in church, really, and my brother plays the piano, and music has always moved me. No matter where I was or what I was doing, I was always engaged by the arts. And then I got to high school and was in show choir and the movement and the day ends, putting it all together. And then I finally was like, oh, I could go do this as a job. This will be fun and actually have a, like, happy life. And then I really found community. I found a safe space. I found somewhere to really continue the process of freeing myself.

Jay Harrison G:

That's the the ministry I try to walk in in my life and share with others, and that's what theater is for me. It's a a place of freedom, of exploration, of growth, of expansion. And I I think that is is something everyone can and should benefit from. And that's one of the things I love about only make believe, like tapping into the imagination, to the play, to the freedom, and its healing.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah. Because theater I mean, much like you, theater was a place that I I found my community, my people, the the the ones who kinda got me just because I I thought a little differently or I felt things a little differently. But taking that that that community, taking what can be just a hobby as we kind of, grow up and then turning it into a job, a profession, a career, what was that transition like for you, or or what made you think, oh, I can actually make a living at this?

Jay Harrison G:

It was truly a leap of faith. It was it was my ticket out of North Carolina. I grew up in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and, I just watched people living complacent lives, and I knew that there was more for me to explore and find. And so, choosing theater was just a way of saying, oh, I can have a a happy life. I was gonna do PR or communications or do something very safe, that my parents wanted me to do. And I was like, no. I'm a risk taker. I like to be different.

Jay Harrison G:

I like to be bold. I like to be brave. So why not leap into the unknown? And it truly has been a journey ever since.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I bet. I bet. Now speaking of that journey, the when you and I met doing Kinky Boots, you had been a part of that show in various incarnations for many years. What was it about that show that that really spoke to you? What was it that, that you love so much about Lola, that character?

Jay Harrison G:

Well, it was very parallel to my real life. I was the only Lola to ever actually be a drag queen. Like, I worked New York City nightlife. I'd done the parties and the gigs and, hosting shows at bars and all the things and entertaining kids at their birthday parties and drag all the things. Like, the whole spectrum of it. And I had that relationship. So singing not my father's son every night was truly cathartic, and it was therapeutic for me. I got to get my mess out on stage.

Jay Harrison G:

So it was, it was really therapy for me for five years doing that that that show, and it changed my life and my career and and really elevated me in so many ways.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah. Because theater, yes, we we are inhabiting characters. We're exploring the different nuances of what this character wants and what he does. And at the same time, we're doing that within ourselves. We're figuring out what we want, what it is that I need. And it seems like that that journey for you was in parallel because a lot of times they can be happening at different times, but it seems like for you, they were happening at the same time.

Jay Harrison G:

It it's seemingly has been my career of finding things that and I love it. I love finding things that are parallel to my real life that I can work on in and out of the show. You know, Lola, that was a time to really free me and help me step out of how I conditioned myself or how I was conditioned to operate in the world and in theater. And then doing Doubtfire after that was so wild because my parents were divorcing at the time. And so I got to deal with that on analog stage. And then now stepping into something like it hot, it was an even more freeing journey of really allowing myself the expansion of of being the human that I am and allowing that to be a mirror for others as well. I I love to say there's a little Daphne in everybody, and that doesn't mean that you need to go run out and put a dress on, but find that freedom and that expansion beyond what you were told is right or the the the successful way to do something.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Now the musical did update itself a bit from the old movie. How much of that was the writers themselves themselves taking these characters in new directions? How much of it was you once they cast you and basing it around that?

Jay Harrison G:

It was a it was a collaboration. Truly, the first time I read the script, I joined the project in 02/2019, when we did a reading. And that then I I saw the potential of what it could show audiences, how it could affect people, how we could touch hearts and minds. And then as we continue to work on it and build on it together, I got infused into it more. Things I say in my real life found their way into the script. And it wasn't a need to, like, sit down and have a conversation of I need this to be a part of my character's journey. They were just actively listening to how I moved and operated as a nonbinary person and let that inform the arc.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And that has been your own arc of finding yourself as a non binary person discovering these different facets of yourself. What has that journey been like? As you say, theater's kinda mirrored it, but at the same time, you've had your own personal walk to go through as well.

Jay Harrison G:

Yeah. It's really just made me ground myself in who I am that much more. It's made me understand myself and then also give myself the grace and the space to grow. The mantra I've been living by this year is you have to free yourselves in order to see yourself. You have to give yourself the permission to be and play and explore and not wait for someone else to give you the space to do that. And so every day, I wake up and when I get dressed, I get dressed according to how I feel and and how I wanna express myself, not based on societal limits or labels or boundaries to keep me confined or compartmentalized for the sake of others. So I I encourage people. I love when people look at me and say, oh, I can never wear that thing or I can never do that.

Jay Harrison G:

I'm like, no. Because you haven't freed yourself to see yourself there. You haven't given yourself the space to even play in that area or use that crayon out of the box. Like, you really have to, like, break how we've been taught to live and experience life.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And with the Tony nomination, obviously, that was a confirmation of the work that you've done in some like it hot. But then winning it, did what was that feeling? Obviously, there there's a sense of of joy and excitement, but but what what did it mean to you to have that type of award?

Jay Harrison G:

It meant everything. And just like I said in my speech, I did what I did for those nonbinary, transgender, nonconforming people to feel seen. And that approval of of the work and humanity was so fulfilling far beyond me. Every day at the stage door, I interact with queer and trans and non binary people who feel so seen and so represented, kids and students who are saying they've never seen themselves like this in theater, and it, like, gives them hope. And that's why I do what I do. This is more than a job to me. This is my ministry. This is me walking in my purpose and being intentional about what I do and how I move in the world.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And do you think that with Some Like It Hot because you have Christian Berle there as well, a straight actor, and then you a non binary, both of you wearing dresses. Does that also say something about freeing ourselves and about allowing ourselves to be something more than we are?

Jay Harrison G:

Oh, absolutely. And that was the thing. We were so intentional and conscious of making sure that the the comedy and and the work that we were doing was not based in in a man in a dress and making the comedy about that fact.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Which is what the movie did a lot of. Right?

Jay Harrison G:

Exactly. And it and it worked for its time and was ahead of its time. And so we had to do our version of So Like It Hot and be true to us and to today and the future. And it was so wonderful to get to collaborate with Christian and to build our relationship of trust and love, and he had to give into it and trust that he was capable of doing it. And he really did step up to the plate, or we just had fun. We came into it, and we were respectful of each other, respectful of the work, respectful of of humanity, and then allowed the collaboration and the trust to really be our foundation of how we built everything.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

As as you were saying that, it made me think whether you were doing Lola or Daphne. Was there ever any internal pushback of, oh, can I go that far? Oh, can I go there?

Jay Harrison G:

No. I I was pushing everybody else in the sense of asking that you know, everyone was so conscious of, well, we you know, people are gonna think, what can we add? And there came a a moment where, again, I had to stay firm in myself and be the voice and say, can we just create art that causes conversation? I also, like, you know, I used to say I wasn't a political person, but during the pandemic, I had a a revelation for myself, and it was confirmed with, an interview I saw of Toni Morrison saying that as artists, we are innately political. Our existence is political. We comment on the times. We we represent the times that we shape culture. And so sometimes more oftentimes, effective art is going to cause conversation or should. And we should allow it to do that and and and not be so bogged down by making sure that we are politically correct all the time. There has to be a little grit and there has to be some growing pains in order for change to effectively happen.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah. I mean, because it's a matter of not just showcasing the wonderful things that can happen and the wonderful ways that we can progress and improve our lives and lives of others, but we have to kind of get into the dark stuff too. We have to show because the only way that you know where the light is is if there's darkness around you. It's that kind of thing. You only know one if you have the other. So as you say that the characters that we choose to do, the types of shows that we audition for and characters that we portray, These are making a statement.

Jay Harrison G:

Yeah. Always. And, again, it's it is it's something we we, as the artist, have to be considerate of of of the work we choose to do. Yeah. We get those gigs where you're like, yeah. Yeah. This is a paycheck. This will, you know, pass time, and I I'll do it.

Jay Harrison G:

Whatever. And then there comes a time where you're like, no. I I can't give up myself in that way because that breaks something in me or it doesn't align with my morals or where I stand or again, I look for roles that there's some truth that I can connect to. And if I can connect to that truth, I can effectively share that with audiences and be a mirror so that people can see humanity and themselves and and and expansion.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Both Jay and I have been involved with an organization called Only Make Believe, a nonprofit started back in 1999 that brings interactive theater into hospitals, care facilities, and schools for children dealing with disabilities and life threatening illnesses. Jay and I will be discussing this wonderful organization and more after the break. In a broader sense, that's what Only Make Believe does. It brings these actors into these facilities and children who in in for various different reasons, may not see themselves fully. And these shows allow them an opportunity to really come out of their shells, to maybe even get out of their wheelchair or use their crutches, whatever they have, and inhabit these characters and have a sense of joy and imagination on a stage. And I think all of us as actors, we want an audience to feel that kind of freedom.

Jay Harrison G:

Well, that's the beauty of theater and art. We come into these spaces and we surrender to the imagination. You let go of reality and you give in to whatever world is being presented to you. And it's amazing how we collectively come in and do that and forget about ourselves as individuals and allow that space to heal us, knowingly or unknowingly. That's, you know, one of the things during the pandemic, I I kept so true and and close to my heart that artists were essential workers because what we do reaches hearts and minds on a molecular level that people can't grasp the fullness of, and it's something I encourage artists to understand the power we possess. It's not something to take lightly.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Because what I what I kept hearing on the news and other things and what what were people doing during the pandemic when they're in their homes? They're watching Netflix. They're watching TV. They're reading books. They're they're going to artists to kinda fill their day, to fill their lives with something when outside, where they can't do anything. So Yeah. You that I I was of the same mindset thinking, well, art is essential. It's it's what everyone's going to right now. When there's nothing else, you you shop, you sleep, you know, you eat, and then you go to the arts.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I mean, those that's what everyone was doing.

Jay Harrison G:

Yeah. And and then it's that thing. It's like you binge watch something because you're connected to it. Something has grasped you in a way that your attention is is is focused there, and you're you're invested in this world, again, that has been created. And if that was taken away, what would people have? And it's more than just entertainment. It it makes you feel things. It literally releases all kinds of things in your brain, in your body that allows you to to feel so much. And that's something I I want people to to to tap into more that and it's something I'm doing even for myself of getting back in touch with with feeling more and allowing all feel all the things, be all the things.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Because it it reminds you of that quote from First Wives Club, Goldie Hawn. I'm an actress. I have all the feelings.

Jay Harrison G:

Yeah. That is so true. Like, as the artist, we we possess all of those things, and we are able to tap into that to be able to tap into it in the audiences, to to make you feel whatever it is we want you to feel. And it is again, it it just it goes so deep, and I don't think people really understand the power of that.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, I think us as actors, I think we can forget too because, I mean, it does become a business, a profession. You know, as you say, we take those jobs where it's like, okay, well, I'll make this amount of money a week, I'll get some insurance weeks, you know, and sometimes we have to do that. But you're right, there are those performances, those roles where we get to tap into something that's that's more than a paycheck. It's something personal within us.

Jay Harrison G:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And for you, I understand it was Brad Oscar that introduced you to Only Make Believe. How did that conversation go, and what was it that interested you?

Jay Harrison G:

Brad and I did the all fired together, and I just love him as a human being. I I adore his heart, and he and his husband, Diego, and the beautiful work that they love to do and be in the world. And so him coming to me about Only Make Believe and the incredible work that the organization does to heal and to inspire and to expand, was so easy to say yes. Again, he taught me so much about how to love and how to give and watching Brad operate in the world and then the work he does beyond the stage. It was so easy to support him. He will always be my work husband. Like, he brings me joy just seeing his face. And so, again, it's easy to just support him in all that he is and all that he does.

Jay Harrison G:

And, I mean, the name says it all. Like, only make believe. If you really just give into the idea of of imagination and surrendering to your circumstances and allowing art to to heal and to fuel you and to give you strength beyond your own means, that's something I can always support. As a kid, I would go sit on a swing in our backyard and just look at the clouds and truly make believe of what was possible beyond that physical place. And I hope to be able to help people to tap into that kind of living, that limitless thinking, that, the that the bound the limit does not exist of of what's possible and how healing can happen.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah. Because it's it really is a part of finding audiences, whether it's in a Broadway stage or with only make believe in the facilities of of meeting an audience where they are, but then at the same time, helping them see something beyond that, beyond themselves. So it's it's this two step process of recognizing what is, but also what can be.

Jay Harrison G:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And for you, you'll be supporting through the gala and performing. What song will you be performing, and why did you choose it?

Jay Harrison G:

I'm singing I am what I am, and it's such an anthem. I have a a disco dance version that I do, and it's such a a an empowering statement. I am what I am, and what I am needs no excuses. No matter what the circumstances are, no matter who you are, what you're doing or being in your life, standing in who you are is the most radical thing you can do, beyond anyone else's understanding. And so I wanna empower people to really stand in in who you are and be proud of of the fullness of who you are.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And I would certainly say that over the years as I've known you and watched you, I would say that no matter where you were in your career or personal life, it seemed like you were always, at least from my perspective, fully embodying that. Even as you've grown and changed and evolved, it seemed like that is and in some ways, just like you have a beautiful voice and it comes across so easy on stage, it almost seems easy for you. But I I is does it come naturally to to be so fully embodied in wherever you are in your particular point in life?

Jay Harrison G:

I I I guess seemingly, but it's I mean, it it's an everyday journey. It's not it's not easy. I will say that it's not easy, but it's the choice. It's the choosing every day. The first thing I do every morning is go to my altar, pray, meditate, meet myself, meet the day there, and I repeat the lyrics. My friends have this song, a group called the Shindellas. There's it's the lullaby. And the lyrics say, I am what God made, beautiful and brave.

Jay Harrison G:

Every fiber of me is perfectly lovely. I will be myself today. I have to remind myself every morning the way I was created, the way I rose today, everything that I'm feeling, everything that I'm going to is just as I am supposed to be. Now take the power of who I am, who I was created to be, and the energy of knowing that I am in control of my own experience, and take that into my day, and anything is possible.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I I I love that. Yeah. And it's a constant reminder for all of us to live within not just what we are and what we see, but the power that comes with that as well. What is possible for us to do that day and going forward? So thank you so much for talking with me today and sharing your your lovely story. It it always is inspiring to me to hear from you, so I I greatly appreciate it.

Jay Harrison G:

Thank you. Thank you. It's again, I I really I hope that people will be inspired to free themselves even if it's just a little bit. It just find the smallest thing, one of my favorite things during the pandemic. I stopped asking people how are you or how are you doing? And I start asking people, what's bringing you joy these days? And it's always wonderful to watch people to have to take a second and really think about what's bringing them joy. Yeah. And then to encourage them to do that just a little bit more. Even if it's like, oh, I love my cup of coffee in the morning.

Jay Harrison G:

Great. Add a flavor to it or something. Like, do something to, like, make it a ritual that bring like, really infuses joy into your life. And keep seeking joy and keep seeking the freedom and and and stretching beyond again what is to what's possible. Because we are a society and a world where we are conditioned to live a certain way and just keep our head down and do this to be successful as opposed to finding the fun and the frivolity and the the the silliness and the imagination and the creativity to just, like, elevate everything a little bit more.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, you certainly elevate things as well. So thank you so much for being here.

Jay Harrison G:

Thank you so much, Patrick.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

To learn more about Only Make Believe and how you can support them and be a part of their mission to help children, then please visit onlymakebelieve.org for more information. Well, that about does it for this episode. I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones, in charge of writing, editing, and producing this podcast. Background music is from John Bartman, and the theme song that was created by me. Be sure to join me next time as we talk more about why I'll never make it.