This transcript was automatically generated and therefore may contain some typographical errors in spelling and grammar.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

When I was growing up, it was my mother who sang with the church choir about the time I was joining the children's choir, and my aunt spent her young adult years as a jazz singer. But I am actually the first in my family to pursue a full-time career in theater. While that brought me a certain amount of freedom in finding my own way through the industry, at the same time, None of my family had ever done this before, so that meant often going it alone and not really sure what the next step should be.

But for others like Sharon Catherine Brown, who have a legacy behind them, it can mean inheriting gifts as well as presumptions from those who came before. Back in 2023, she joined the podcast to talk about how she has followed in the footsteps of her talented family. Honoring their profound contributions to her life and career, while at the same time forging her own path in this industry. And I feel so fortunate to have worked with her on a show back in the summer of 2022, doing a new musical version of Anne of Green Gables at Goodspeed up in Connecticut. And as Anne herself would say, she has become a kindred spirit in my life.

And as you'll hear, we thoroughly enjoy each other's company. So much so that our interview lasted more than 3.5 hours. And when I first released the conversation, I had to spread it out over 2 episodes and only subscribers got the final 5-question segment. But now I can finally present it all in one episode. But don't worry, I have edited it down slightly. There's just so much heart and wisdom and passion in what she shares. And I hope you come away from this with as much joy and inspiration as I did.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Hi, I'm Sharon Catherine Brown. I am born and raised in New York City. Also, I was bicoastal for a long time as well and would go back and forth where the jobs were. And I also spent 9 years on the road where I went from one show to another and didn't really— wasn't really anywhere, but yet I was everywhere.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

ShayCat, as she is known to her friends, has experiences and a resume on stage and on screen that any actor would love to have. Her film work includes A Chorus Line and Sister Act 2, and on television, she's appeared in soap operas like Generations and sitcoms like The Jeffersons, Good Times, and The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. But theater is where she got her start and remains her first love. From Broadway productions of Dreamgirls and Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat to the national tours of The Wiz, Rent, and Jekyll and Hyde. And in part 1 of our conversation, she shares with us the long line of performers in her family, a harrowing experience in her first Broadway show, and the moment she knew she was born to be a drama queen.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That's why we do theater. A particular breed of crazy because anything could happen when you're on stage and you just have to go with it.

Welcome to Why I'll Never Make It, an award-winning theater podcast about the realities of a career in the arts. I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones, a Broadway actor here in New York City. And as we head into the 10th season of this podcast, I wanted to take a moment to look back at 10 guests who have been so meaningful over the years. Their stories, honesty, and lessons are still just as relevant today, reminding us of what it really takes to keep creating, performing, and showing up in this business.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Welcome, Sharon Catherine Brown. It is a joy to have you on the podcast.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It is a joy to be here, my dear, dear friend who I love so much.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, and it's hard for me to say that full name because I just know you as ShayKath. That's your name.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah. I mean, I'm fine with you that you'll do your thing and let people know who's on your show. But you have to call— we're friends, people. We're friends in real life. So Yeah, don't do that Sharon Catherine on me.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Now, when was the first time you used Shea Cab? When did you start going by that name?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

A friend of mine, Brian Flores, was in the show Head Over Heels with me on Broadway. And he gave me that name. And it stuck. And everybody was like, that's so cool. And I was like, it was done with such affection. And I loved it so much. And then it just went and then Everybody calls me Shay Cat. And I love it so much because of how it was started.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It's just gone from project to project. And I'm like, yeah, that just makes me so happy. I always think of Brian when somebody calls me Shay Cat. And everybody calls me Shay Cat. Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, because it wasn't until like the— I think the second week of our rehearsals in Anne of Green Gables that I knew your name was Sherrod. People would say— people would say Sharon. I was like— Who's Sharon? They go, Shay Cat.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I went, oh. Well, well, it also came, really came in handy when, uh, when I did Caroline or Change, because I was the standby for Sharon D. Clarke. I was Sharon C. Brown. And I was like, that has never happened ever, ever. And you don't have to worry about who you're calling. Because I go by Shay Cat.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And everybody was like, "Oh, that's great." It was on all my clothes and everything. It was so convenient.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Did you put stickers on everything?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I saved that for you. I didn't get those stickers until we did Anne and the Green Gable.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So what you need to know, listener, is that this woman bought stickers that just had Shay Cat all over them.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

All over them.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And then she proceeded to put these stickers everywhere, in her dressing room, on donut boxes, everywhere.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You don't know what you're talking about. Donut boxes. I understand that you have an audience that you have to appeal to, but don't lie. Don't lie to me. Do it honest, you know? Get the ratings honestly. Don't tell stories like that. That's ridiculous. Who would do that?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, then fine. Why don't we tell some of your stories now? That'll get us into the first one. And so you want to talk about being not just a Broadway legacy baby, meaning that one of your parents was on Broadway, but you're a double Broadway legacy baby. How—

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah, so here's how—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

You come from a long line.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah, here's how it works. So, you know, my dad, Johnny Brown, who is from Lappin and Good Times, he was Mr. Bookman on Good Times. He passed away recently. And so you know that because you're my friend and you went through so much with me with that. And My dad was Sammy Davis Jr.'s protégé, and he was one of the stars of Sammy's show Golden Boy. And he had a huge number called Don't Forget 127th Street. It literally brought down the house, 8 shows a week.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Like, that was my dad's big break. But he was also on Broadway in a play— that was a musical— in a play called Carry Me Back to Morningside Heights, directed by Sidney Poitier. Louis Gossett Jr. was in that, and an incredible cast where you look and go, are you kidding me? So it's rare if you're a Broadway legacy baby. That's pretty cool and rare. You're not going to meet a whole lot of double Broadway where both parents have done. And you're definitely not going to meet someone whose parent did a Broadway show with their parent. My mother was in a Broadway show, Memphis Bound, with her mother, my grandmother.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That's crazy. It makes me so proud, and it makes me so, so happy. And truly, I came out of the womb looking for center and knowing where— I mean—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Did it feel like destiny? You were born to do theater?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It felt like that to me. But my parents were ahead of their time in terms of this. They felt this is what they do for a living, that nothing in them wanted to push their kids to do it. So if it weren't for friends of my parents, maybe I wouldn't have gotten into show business as early as I did because it's my friends that were like, can't you see what you have? Like, she's been, because I, I started at 3 and a half with like baby modeling because somebody put my picture in, a friend of my parents put my picture in and You know, all this stuff started happening because my, my parents were like, we don't wanna be those parents. And when I was doing commercials and print work, I really did see a lot of creepy things. I mean, I, I remember this sticks out in my head the most. I think it was a pudding commercial, maybe Jell-O pudding. And the casting person came out.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

We're all like 6, you know, we're babies. All the casting person asked, who likes chocolate? Raise your hand. Who likes vanilla? Raise your hand. Just so that when we went in, they wouldn't be giving us something that we didn't like. It was not like if you like vanilla, you weren't going to get the job. It wasn't that. And I saw a mother, her daughter raised her hand. She was like, put your hand down because she thought more people are raising their hands for chocolate.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You raise your hand for vanilla. I saw stage mothers like that. My mom was never that. And so on many gigs as a child, my mother was the only parent that was allowed either on set or in the theater because she was normal.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, I mean, coming from a theater background herself, then she knew the business. And she knew— not to take this personally— or kind of how to— manage this or that way.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

She was not only a performer, but she was an acting teacher. I mean, my mom's point of view, as well as my dad's, but my mom, I had to be with a parent or guardian. So it was always my mom, like on set or anything. And she would always look at someone and go, she doesn't pay the bills here. We don't, we're not living off of our daughter. She doesn't have to be in this business. So if things were not correct, or, you know, we have, when you're underage, you have certain laws and rules that have to be adhered to. And if things were not right, she was like, I'm pulling her.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It wasn't like a diva thing. It was like, she's a child and she's a child first. And so this is not a woman trying to live vicariously through her daughter. She's a mom first, and I had to be professional. So I was not a bratty kid cuz that was not gonna fly with my mother and father. You know what I mean? So I'm fortunate in that respect that my parents were my parents first. I give a lot of people in show business that have made mistakes that were child actors. I give them a pass because I see the way they were raised and I see in almost No, in all, really in every single case, the parents got so involved in show business that they weren't parenting.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I really give them a pass for a lot of stuff because this is a hard industry to be in if you're parenting yourself. And it's really, you're always one breath away from being a true Hollywood story if you don't have parents that are like, I don't care whether you're starring on television or on Broadway, your room needs to be cleaned. That's important.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, yeah, it's that sense of being grounded so that you don't get, you know, 'cause how you're treated on set is not how you're treated at home or in the rest of your life. And you need to recognize that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And know that difference.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah. Oh, when I did my first movie, my foundation is theater and I'm just so grateful for that. And I love theater so much. Like it's an incredible medium to me and, when I did my first movie, and I remember this like it was yesterday, I walked through the doors of the theater because it was A Chorus Line. And so we were shooting at the Mark Hellinger, the old Mark Hellinger, walking through the stage door. And to myself, like at this level, I was like, I wonder if I want breakfast, but just like no louder than that. And like 2 production assistants, they were like raptors, you know how in Jurassic Park they come from either side? It was like that. And they were like, can I get you anything? You want a muffin or you want a bagel? I thought in that moment, I was like, oh, this is why people lose their minds.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I got it. I understood. I was like, if this is all you know, then there's no way you can be grounded. If you can whisper, if you're just wondering about something and somebody is, you know what I mean? In theater, it's like if one of your castmates doesn't bring breakfast, sometimes you don't have it. It's like, you know what I mean? If there's no donuts, there's no donuts, there's no bagels, and you may be going hungry until lunchtime. And I love that about us, by the way. But you know, it, I, it's like I got a really big life lesson in one moment of time to go, there are some people that they graduated college and hit it big and all they know is this. They don't know anything else.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

For instance, I played Dorothy in The Wiz on tour and André De Shields was my Wiz. Yeah. Oh, I know, right?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

How wonderful. Wow.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And everyone was really intimidated by him because of his presence. And also, he worked that. He knew people were intimidated, so he worked it. But ding dong, you know, Shekat was too young because I was the youngest to ever play the role. I was 13. And to me, it was Oz onstage and off. And I loved him so much. Like, I would knock on his door, and people would look, and they would go stiff like, oh my God, you're not supposed to knock on his door.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I was like— He loved me. You know what I mean? Like, I— he just loved me. So I got away with anything. And, um, because when I first started the show, I was a munchkin. I mean, literally, I was a munchkin at 13. I was a munchkin offstage. I was literally a munchkin. And I came into my dressing room.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

My mom is there because I'm underage. My mom's there. Threw my costume down, and my mom, like, looked at me and glared, and she said, what are you doing? And I was like, what? I said, you know, cause I'm trying to be sophisticated. And I was like, I'm making a quick change. She's like, your change isn't that quick. She said, hang up your costume. Those are your clothes. Pick up your costume.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

If you don't have, like, I'm so fortunate because if you don't know, then you only learn what your experience is. And if you're parenting yourself, there are some 13-year-olds that hit it big on, on a television show. And their parents are not in show business and may not necessarily be guiding them in that way. And so they become the breadwinner and they're the role switch or the dynamic switches is what I mean between parent and child. And suddenly they're just anything I want, anything I, and that, that would never fly in my household. Oh my goodness. I mean, I never did that again. That's the thing is I never did that again.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I've had wardrobe people and wardrobe assistants look at me and go, wow, you're so, you're so neat. You're so considerate. Don't worry. I got it. And I'm like, no, I've got it. Unless it's a thing of this is a quick change. No, I'm hanging up. Those are my clothes.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Cause the other thing my mother was like, have pride. That's your character. Those are your clothes. This is your costume. This is the integrity of the business is what I was taught by both of my parents. And I'm really, I am always so grateful for that because you could be a monster if you start as early as I did and you have no guidance. You know what I mean?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

But at the same time, it sounds like that, yes, your parents taught you a certain way and having respect and integrity, but at the same time, you still got to be a kid and enjoy it. It was still a playground and fun for you.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Absolutely. Yes, because that was the reason that my mom was always willing to pull me off set because she knew and my dad knew that I was professional and that I knew what that meant and my, and that I learned it's show business. It's two words and, and they knew that. But if they felt there was any kind of abuse that was getting ready to happen, they were like, we No, she doesn't need it bad enough to have someone, you know, to have a Judy Garland thing, give her amphetamines to keep her— You know what I'm saying? Oof.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

But at the same time, based upon your own parents, then you growing up in the theater, and now you are a mom yourself, did that affect how you mothered and how you raised your own son?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yes, because it caused me to— put the brakes on. My son is an incredible actor who has no interest in being an actor. He's 18 now, and when he was younger, he did some really wonderful performances. And I discovered that he could act when he was 9 or 10. And I said, do you mind? Because I had an audition coming up. And I said, do you mind reading with mommy? And is practicing with me. So I've got the copy for him and the copy for me, and we're doing the scene and I'm like, can we do it a couple of times for me? Obviously I'm trying to get off book. And the second time he's doing the scene, but he's not looking at the side, but I'm looking at the right.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God. So I'm trying to stay in character and not go, oh my God. My child is doing a cold read. My child is doing something that adults, like, melt before they're able to do it. They, like, they find so intimidating. And then the third time that we ran it, I was in a scene with a really good young actor, and I was like, OMG. Now, the reason why this is an OMG moment for me is because I adopted my child.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And there are lots of people that don't know that because he has my smile. And so people just assume, they're like, well, of course, of course. You know, he's thinking, I was like, no, no, not necessarily. Of course. You know what I mean? And I don't know whether it'll change, but I, I had to check myself because, you know, when he was like, I'm not, I'm not interested in that. I couldn't accept the fact that it was a hobby and that he was like, that was then and now I'm 'Cause, because he was so good, because the stillness that actors take many, many classes and years of classes to get, he had it naturally, that stillness. And there's this, and, and so I was like, you've got, you cannot have your great parents and then you be Mama Rose. You can't, this cannot happen.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

So, and he, cuz I never got to that. Yes. Yeah. But I would be like, your school's having an audition for this. Yeah. You, you were killing that role. Like I, and I, I put the brakes on that because, you know, it, it's not fair for me to do that. Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

He's going to be his own person.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That's right.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Whether or not you push him really.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That's right. And that's why, you know, there's nothing that my parents could have done. It was gonna be that for me. You know, if he chooses it later on, that's incredible. And if he wants to be a lawyer or a doctor, I'll scream my lungs out and go, my God, no, not steady work, you know, but whatever.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

For your second story, and I found this to be hysterical, for your second story, you wanted to share when you knew that you were a drama queen.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yes. OK. So this is when I— this is when I knew. So a little backstory. My Broadway debut was Maggie Flynn with Shirley Jones and Jack Cassidy. And in that cast, Irene Cara, who just passed away— I've known her all my life— and Stephanie Mills, and Giancarlo Esposito, who's an incredible actor, And there's 9 kids all, all together. We went to the same school, but we were in different grades. They were all ahead of me.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I was the baby of the, of all those babies. And we went to Lincoln Square Academy, which was a school, it's no longer a school, for performing kids. Lincoln Square Academy is like, you could be, you could be on Broadway and go to school and play, you know, that you could do them both. So adults don't wanna work with kids. Or animals, except for me. I'm that different adult that I'm like, put me on a Disney Channel and surround me. Please surround me with all the animals you got and all the kids you got. That's my dream job.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Okay. That's my dream role, whatever that is. But we were aware that the adults were like, these kids are kicking our butt. Like, this was a super talented group of kids with huge voices, huge, big, like we, like we were little adults. We're all hams. Every one of us is a leg of ham. And you know that kids can do no wrong. And there was this big set and it was a staircase, but huge, huge staircase, big staircase.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And there was an elevator, like a lift that came out of the floor. So one night the stairs started to crumble and whatever the mechanism was that moved it from underneath the stage, it just started to crash while we were on it. It starts, something happened and you heard things going, but this staircase went all the way up and there was like a kid on each stair. So we were high up. And it started to crumble and you heard the audience start to scream because they were aware of the fact that, oh, this, this is not a part of the, the show. And the kids started to scream, you know, everybody was screaming and the, and the curtain had to come down. Stage managers and a lot of the adult cast, they ran and, you know, we were crying and screaming and just, you know, shit's like all of that. And they had to remove this huge set.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And kids just— now, what, I was 4 and a half or 5. 5, I think. I felt it change from we're in real danger, we're going to die to this is the greatest performance of our lives. I felt it because it was an energy that passed from one child to another, all at the— but all at the same time. It was like a lightning bolt that hit us all. It was like, this is scary and we're all gonna die. And this staircase, this wooden staircase is crumbling and we're having to jump into the arms of stage managers and other cast members. And suddenly we were backstage.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

They were surrounding us and my mother was nearby and had a feeling, she just had this feeling. She was with our teacher and she said, I gotta go to the theater. Something's up. My mom's always been that way. And when she came into the theater is when it was crumbling. She felt something was wrong. And one of the cast members that was also a friend of ours, he was like, he put his arms up so that I could get off the thing. He was like, I got you.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I got you. I jumped into his arms. And my mother— because my mother was like— she was running down the aisle going, all bets are off. I'm coming up. I'm getting my child. We were backstage. And in the time it took to get the set off, the stage was bare. And they were like, do you think you can sing? Because our big number was coming up.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

All the kids sang this big song. It was like an eerie ballad. And they were like, do you think you could do this? And we were like, yes. And it was just very— it was getting more and more dramatic. Yes, yes, yes, the show must go on. Patrick, let me just tell you, when that curtain came up, the ovation that the 9 kids got, that was the beginning of the end. That was— they created 9 monsters, 9 little monsters there. It was like, there's nothing better on the face of this universe than what is happening to us right now.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And life has to be like this. It can never not be. I can never not be on stage. And we all felt it. That was the moment I knew that I was a drama queen. We could— this is the greatest moment. By the way, the danger was real. That's the funny thing is that—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Right. Something really could have happened to you.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

No, no. It was crumbling. And the way it was crumbling, if we fell, not only were we gonna either get hurt or break bones, but we also could have fallen through the floor 'cause there was an opening. That was what the problem was, is that there was a staircase, but there was an opening around it. So we also could have literally like, you know.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Wow.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That could have been the end of us. And so it was like that, it was very real danger. And then we were, in the paper the next day. Why? Why would you put 9 hams in a paper? And with this giant root beer float that they got for us because we're alive. Our lives were spared. And the show was going on. It was the best thing. And all the adults that night, they were atmosphere.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Because we came back, we were children, and we came back on that stage. On a bare stage with nothing and sang our song and brought the house down. It was incredible. And then I was like, this feeling is the feeling I want to have for the rest of my life.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, that's such a dramatic moment. I mean, yes, dangerous, but also dramatic. And then, as you say, once that ovation starts, you never, never want to get rid of that, ever.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

The whole audience is looking at you, going, you little brave children, you. You brave little brown kids— because we were all brown— you brave little children, you. If you just move your pinky, we're here for it. And we're going to get— come on, are you kidding me? And that was the other thing, that it's live. It was the best thing to happen because you could get through anything. That's why we do theater. We are a particular breed of crazy because anything could happen when you're on stage. And you just have to go with it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I was cast as Lucy in the touring company of Jekyll and Hyde. And there's a lot of moving parts to that set. Again, 8 shows a week. So what could go wrong? Stuff is going to— you can't have things that are moving electronically and not know that you're in for a ride at some point.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Never in a show. Never in a show.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Come on.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Anne of Green Gables that we did, remember?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Wait a minute. That one, that was when the planks were just— I was like, oh, are we just going to keep on spinning?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It's a turntable of planks, and they're supposed to turn a certain way at a certain time.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And stop at a certain time.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And stop at a certain time. And of course, I mean, from tech rehearsal, I looked at the girl running automation, and I said, this is nothing on you, but that is going to break at some point. It just is.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It certainly did. I remember, and I was like, of course it is. Of course. They're like, well, well, we're— I was like, no, it's not about you. It's going to happen.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

You're just asking for it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah. And you know it's going to happen. That's the thing is you're like— and you know that you will deal with it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Because what did you do in Jekyll and Hyde? How did you deal with it?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

There was a set that the scene switches from outside to Dr. Jekyll's office. And Lucy is sitting in the office, but that part of it slides in. You know, again, it's all electrical. And it slid in and creates the office, right? It's a segue. But then it slid right back out. And I was like, well, there you go. I was supposed to start talking to them.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And then it stopped and slid back in. And we were starting the dialogue. And my chair just started to turn. Just started. I was like, well, there you go. I mean—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

But at the same time, that is also what is so magical about theater, just that anything can happen. Whether it's a line or something happens with another character or the chair beneath you just starts to move.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And you know, the audience loves that too, because they get to say, "Oh, I was there the night—" You know, you love that. Like, I saw Mean Girls the night that the lady playing the lead, her wig fell off and it was just her wig cap. And Ashley Park was trying to hold it on. And they were, of course, hysterically laughing. She was trying to hold the mic on because it was— she was just left in her stocking cap and mic on top of her head because it was supposed to be a quick illusion thing where suddenly she's in another top or something. That wig came off. But they couldn't go on because they had to reset it. It was important to me.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

So they had to bring the curtain down. Ashley came backstage. When did I see her? I guess— oh, I guess she saw Head Over Heels. And I got to tell her that. I said, I was there the night that the curtain came down because it was one of the funniest things. They could do no wrong. The audience, first of all, we're all fans of the movie. The whole audience is there because we love it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

We were screaming laughing. And when the curtain came back up, they practically got a standing ovation because that's what it is. In that moment, it's not about the fourth wall because we're all just involved in whatever that moment is. And it was great. You know, I've had a bunch of those moments.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, when it comes to theater, obviously the highs are wonderful, and that's why we keep doing it. But it's going to have its little low points, disappointments. I know for me, like, one of mine was back in middle school when another boy was cast in the high school's production of The Sound of Music. I didn't get to do it. He got to do it. Very devastated.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah, because when you audition for something, and you really want it, and you feel that you have fired on all cylinders, and you don't get it, I think I went through a period of time where you were made to feel like, "Look, just shake it off. Just shake it off, and you go on to the next." You know, you hear people say all the time, your job is auditioning. I get that. And yes, but auditioning, you know, unfortunately, like a job does not pay your bill. You know, I'm not so into the hiding of my disappointment anymore because I feel like sometimes we're asked to hide our feelings or change the way we feel or feel bad for feeling bad. I mean, I think as you get older, you look and go, what do people keep telling us that no longer serves me? Sometimes I'm just really disappointed and it's, it's okay to be that. And then sometimes I will not get something and I can, you know, shake it off, but it depends on how much I really want it. It depends on if I.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I'm thinking, gosh, I know I can, can do this. And it's okay to live in that for a bit. I think when we start denying our feelings, it doesn't make sense. We're actors. We're, we're a bundle of feelings and we're supposed to expose them.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, and especially for you starting out as a child, I think that's why some adults don't want to be with children because it can be so unpredictable. It can be just this bundle of emotions. It can be unprofessional. Quote unquote, but then some children that are just a delight to be with, both on stage and off. So you never know what you're going to get with that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Oh, the kids in Caroline, or Change, oh my gosh, I love them so much. They're so talented, it's ridiculous. They are real show business kids. There was a trend. We go through trends in the industry of using real kids. We want real kids. You know what? Give me a show business kid over a real kid any day because I need somebody who knows, number one, that this is make-believe. I want them to hit their mark.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I want them to cry on cue. I want them to be— that show business kid, they're invaluable. And every one of those kids in Carolina Change was a show business kid. Realism, we can get. Let them go to a reality show. And if you want, if you want those kids, let, but for theater and movie, I, I love a kid that knows that this is a business and knows what they're doing. There's a very rough scene between Caroline and Noah, the little boy in Caroline or Change, and some things are said from Caroline that I found really difficult to say just as a human being. When we were in rehearsal the first time that I had to say that to one of the Noahs, you know, we did the scene and we're in it and came off stage and I just, I just bawled my eyes out because it was so difficult for me to say something that cruel to a child.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

'Cause you know how much I love children. You got like— if you're around me for like 3 seconds, you know I love children and animals so much. And my castmates were like, I know, I know. He's OK. He's OK. And he came to me. He came to me like an old man. He was like, we're good.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

We're good. You know what he said to me? But he was like this grown man. I was like— I said, I love you. And from that time on, whenever— because I went on several times and from that time on before we would always start, we, we'd look at each other no matter who I was going on with. We love each other. This is just make believe. Nothing we say matters. Nothing we say is true.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

We love each other. And, uh, when, when we were closing, uh, Jaden, who I went on with a, a lot, my Noah and, um, He made cookies for everybody with sayings on them, and he put on mine. And I still have it. I have it in the freezer. I was like, there's no way I could eat this. He said, we love each other. Remember that always. We love each other, and this is all just make-believe and nothing.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I was like, looking at my cookie going, how sweet are these kids? Give me show business kids any day of the week, any day of the week.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It's interesting you talk about being able to say harsh things on stage. Because it's one thing when you do it on camera, you get, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, maybe 5 takes, you know, depending on what it is, different angles, but then it's done. But theater, there's something about it. It's that 8 times a week. It's that week after week, sometimes months ongoing, where you're in, in these rough scenes like that. And certainly with a child, you know, you want to know— you want— you want that child to know it's make-believe. But even with adults, because I've been reading about, you know, just as we've gone through the last couple of years and a little more racial awakening and just trying to navigate that. And now certain plays are being produced that have tough elements in it, and presenting things like that between people of different racial, different classes.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And so have you found that same type of connection even with adults or kids when you're having to present tough material that has a historical reference to it as well like that?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I am careful about the roles that I choose when it's either, you know, straight play or musical theater because of— when you're doing 8 shows a week, you know that it's pretend, but your cells don't know. You know what I mean? Your body doesn't know that. That's why taking care of yourself physically, emotionally, and financially is important because it's a difficult thing to do, but because we love what we do, it is diminished by so many people. I find that a lot. I've had people say that to me. No matter how hard the schedule is, I've had people say, but you're doing what you love. Yes, I am doing what I love. But that doesn't mean—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It doesn't mean it took a lot of work to get there.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Nobody ever says that to a producer or a director or a casting director. Nobody says those things. But you're doing what you love. They're like, yes, it is hard. With actors, they're like, put on your clown collar and get out there and make us laugh, you know.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Because they say that with Olympic athletes, like, oh my gosh, the training and struggles that they went through. It's like, but they're doing what they love. I mean, they love those sports, whatever events they're in. It's interesting. We recognize the hard work that someone who does a marathon or someone who does a high jump or all these different gymnastic events. But yet someone gets on stage and sings their guts out and they're smiling and they hit that high note and it's like, wow, they're just doing what they love. It's almost like we don't see the hard work. And I can point to you when we did Anne of Green Gables, your big 11 o'clock number as Marilla after Matthew dies.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Like, it was interesting, some of the vocal choices that you make. I was like, how is she going to do this 8 times a week? And yet Every show you were there, your voice was there, and I know that it was, it was preparation on your part. Like, the things that you would do vocally, certainly I know on stage, and hopefully an audience gathered that, that it was something that took training and precision and exactitude to get night after night. Because doing it once for a recording, fine, you could do probably even more than you did. But to do what you did takes training, it takes hard work and you love it, but it, as you say, it doesn't diminish the craft and work that goes into it. Yeah.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And we also, when you're doing 8 shows a week, you live a certain way. If you're going to do 8 shows a week at 100%, I was always taught, you know, you give 100% and that's valuable. You know, I think sometimes when you're talking about Have I been disappointed with roles that I didn't get? I've lost roles to people that had a higher social media profile than I did. And I know that sounds like an excuse, but like really, like I've lost hard theater roles that I believe in my heart should go to theater people, to people who've won contest. And I, you know, I'm, I wanna say I'm not putting that down. It's just that sometimes I would think exactly what you just said. It's not just about one show or even a week of shows. It's 8 shows a week.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I get it. It's a business. You want the person who's out there. Famous on television to play, but it's unfortunate because I, there were a couple of instances where I absolutely knew that I would be the better choice and that I also would be the person that will be there every performance and bring their A-game because of my experience. So sometimes that is frustrating because that's happened a couple of times and and you're just like, okay, I can't fight this. But by the way, you, you should have picked me. And you know, there have been instances, I'm speaking carefully because I wanna be able to get my point across without bashing something else or outing something else. So I will just say, because I don't wanna get into specifics, there is a role that, that I played for a, a length of time.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And when they did the revival of that show somewhere else, it took 3 people a week to do what I was doing 8 shows a week. And I was like, what? To me, I'm thinking, why are you going for less experience? You know, it's, it's something that sometimes you just don't get. You're like, why couldn't you just get the person that could do it? Why 3 people? You know, they didn't start off with that. They just— the one person couldn't make the whole week, so they got a second person, but then that person couldn't do that, so they had to juggle. And I thought, I know 8 women that can do that. You know, like—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I think that I find that with a lot of musical theater that I go to. And as you say, it is a commercial business and they got to put butts in the seats. And to a certain point, I get that. But they often go for this big name that will bring in, they hope, that will bring in tickets. But yet, I know, as you say, I know this line of people that would be around the block that could do it 8 times a week and in their sleep, more so and more easily than this person. But we are definitely, I mean, it's kind of always been this way, but I think even more so now with social media and YouTube. YouTube and just videos and personality is around us all the time, more so than actual talent. Right.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And so I think personality grabs our attention and gets us and excites us or makes us laugh or whatever it is. And we gravitate toward that rather than the nuanced artistic work that can go into someone's craft. Right.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Well, I do agree with with most of that, but I think what happens is I'm one of those people that also thinks while personality may not be enough to do 8 shows a week, I do think there's a skill to that, to making these platforms work for you to be able to monetize them. So I, I don't think that the person that is, uh, YouTube famous may not necessarily be able to do 8 shows a week, but they might be able to successfully do television and films. I point to the Kardashians because everybody is always talking about them and claiming they don't watch them. And I'm like, the people that claim not to like the Kardashians, like, know way more about them than I do. I'm like, you're watching something. But when people say that they're angry because they're famous for nothing, I want to look and go, even if you thought that was true, can't you have respect for the empire they've created off of quote unquote nothing? Like, can't you have respect for it is a business? They employ so many people. There are people like you. I'm not so quick to turn down, uh, the hustle that people have.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It is the hustle for the technology that we have for the day that we're living in. And by the way, if I luck up on something like that, you can hate me too, because it's about paying the rent and taking care of my child. And you know, it's, it's, it is about working smarter, not harder. And so I guess Because I'm older, people expect me to have a different point of view, but I don't. I look and go, you found a way to make your, your dreams come true. It doesn't mean I have to like them personally or what I'm not talking about personally. I'm talking, I'm literally talking about business and what they've made. There are 20-year-olds that are making so much money.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

From TikTok. I get that people are like, well, they're not doing anything. I get that. However, don't be angry at them. Why don't you talk to the people who want to see it or who are buying it or who, like this person finds a hustle and it's working and you're attacking them. It doesn't make sense to me because first of all, you're How do you know about them if you're not watching them? So what are you getting so mad about? I try to find less ways of getting upset. There's so much stuff. Really, there's so much stuff that's coming at us.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I'm like, that's what you're going to get upset over? You know, like people lost their minds. This is, again, I always want to be respectful. The funny girl. With the lead being replaced. I'm not talking about how one actress, how that must have felt. I'm not talking— I'm talking about the fervor over that situation, but not Paradise Square. And for actors, the trouble that they had on Broadway because of a crooked producer, And the, and the awful things that that cast and company went through, to me, that's what you should be getting upset over. That's really a bigger issue because that man never should have been allowed to produce again.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I mean, that, like, that's a big deal. Like, people were really hurt. And to me, people choose what it is that they want to, like, get all crazy about, and then the real stuff that we should dig in and go, wait, we have to make sure this doesn't happen again. It just goes over everybody's head. They gloss over that. That becomes, we'll talk about that for 5 minutes, but then we got to get to this other stuff. And, and the people that are discussing it the most are people who aren't even in show business at all. So sometimes I see these comments and I'm like, You don't even know what you're talking about.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And then I, I'm like, stop looking, stop looking. You're not, you're not a part of this. Stop looking. Because one time I scrolled and I made a comment. I was like, this is none of your business. These people are not in show business. But I made a comment and I said, why let me do, let me be tactful and not confrontational. But I was, Strange Loop announced that they were closing and everybody knows that, that, that's surprising when a show wins the big Tony for it to close.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You know, that's a big deal. And people in theater know exactly what that means and the jobs lost and what that means for actors and the technicians and how surprising it is. But the people having the dialogue online were not in show business, were not actors. And this one person was like, don't worry about them. It gives them a— it gives the actors an opportunity to find new work and was all like, This is a jolly thing. This is a good thing. This person that I shut down was answering everybody's questions, but this person is not in show business. So this person was giving out information that was wrong, talking down to this woman who said, I feel so bad for the people that are going to be out of work.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Sort of made, made a comment to make them feel like you're stupid. You don't know what you're talking about. And so I commented to the lady and said, thank you for showing empathy. Our industry is difficult. To have a show finally get to Broadway after 18 months of a lockdown in an industry that is already unstable, and then to get there and to have a short run when most people have not worked in now 2 years, it's not a la la la, let's just get— it's not— actors don't see it as, oh good, finally get an opportunity to look for more work. I said, so I wrote that and I said, thank you. And then the other person wrote back, I have to remind myself that because we're online, you can't see intent and I have to watch my words and, you know, that's not what I meant and blah, blah, blah. And I said back, this is why I don't look.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I said, I love the fact that we can't. See each other and that it's just words only because it forces you to choose your words wisely or not choose words at all, which sometimes is the wiser choice. No comment back. Shut that down. I was, I just was like, and I'll just say this once and then I will keep quiet for life because I can't get into that. And I, and plus I didn't want to, I wasn't trying to be confrontational. I was just saying, especially because we're online. Choose your words wisely.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Like, that's, that's the great exercise that we have with social media is that you don't have, no one's holding a gun to your head and first of all, asking for your opinion. No one can, no one is asking you. No one is begging you, please, please impart your wisdom, you idiot. Please impart your wisdom. No one's doing that. So if you're going to make a comment, Why don't you just give it a few minutes?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Think about it. Yeah.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Just form that thought. Just think about it. Or how about this? Just think about it and you don't have to post it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Move on with your day.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Move on with your day. That's what people used to do back in the old days. It just keeps them young. We didn't have to, like, my mom said this all the time. She said, everybody's not entitled to your opinion. I'm so tired of social media gurus. I cannot tell you. We don't, none of us have this figured out, life, none of us.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And everybody wants to get on social media and go, hello friends, you know what you should do today? And I'm like, turn off my cell phone because I don't want to hear you talk. Right. That's what I should do. We don't have it figured out because this is actually really hard. It's really, it's difficult. And, and unfortunately now people believe social media. What you're showing them is your best, your highlights. And so that, yeah, that's not, that's not healthy.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Because if I come over to your house when you're not looking, well, first of all, I'll be arrested because, you know, that's breaking and entering. But if you were to see people, if you were to see people in their private time, you will see nobody has it all together. That's their hustle. And you're a part of it. It's like, I'm a life coach and, you know, more power to you, but I'm not going to listen to you because I personally want— I'm older than you. So, and I'm not even like wanting to give that kind of advice. Right.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

We certainly don't have our lives together. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Still learning.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

We're still learning. It's like, how can you get up there and go, you know what you should do when you know you're probably like one super life event away from a nervous breakdown yourself. Like that is where everybody's doing the best that they can do. And that should be the only advice given. Do your best. Do the best you can. Do the best you can. Because this is hard.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

This is hard stuff.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

In part 1, Shake It talked about coming from a family of performers and when she knew she was born to be a drama queen. And in this episode, we pick up with her third story about the nerve nervousness and panic of being a last-minute replacement in a stage production.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Okay, so I was doing a soap opera at the time for NBC, and you know, when you're under contract, you're under contract, even if they're not using you every day. And also, whatever the shooting day is, that's not a guarantee of ending at any particular time. That's just how it is. So I auditioned for Flora the Red Menace and gotten it. And by the way, Jodi Benson, who is the original Little Mermaid voice, who I did Joseph in the Technicolor Dreamcoat with, she and her husband Ray, they were in the ensemble. She was Flora. So I was like, oh, that's great. If I get this, I'll be working with Jodi again.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

So I got it. But they didn't have understudies. They were not providing understudies for this production. And so my agent was like, look, she's under contract to NBC. We cannot guarantee. She'll probably be finished by 6 or 7 at night, but that's not a guarantee. And we're not going to pull her from the set like that. We're not getting sued over this.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And they hemmed and hawed a bit and they're like, you know, we don't, this is not, we don't have it budgeted, blah, blah, blah. And, um, and my agent was like, well, she can't, she can't do it then because they can't guarantee. Okay. Boom. They go off, they hire who they're going to hire. And I'm still doing my soap opera. Two days before their first performance, I'm glad you're laughing. Call my agent and go.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

We let her go, wasn't working out. Please, can Sharon do this show? We will hire a young lady to be her understudy. Please, please, please. Can she? So my agent, so that's a nut, you know, my, my theater training tells me yes, say yes, because this is drama. And my brain is like, are you insane? Like, this is 2-day bait.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Oh, 2 days.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

So I said, yes, of course. You know, I said yes. So, so they have to get a rehearsal room. I'm working, I'm still like doing the TV show. So they have to get a rehearsal room and go over everything. And I'm go— I'm going on the music and in my head I'm like, wow, we're, we're doing this. Right? And then the next day there's the put-in, but it's like a full-fledged rehearsal for me because we got entrances and exits and entrances and exits and this and that. At some point, all actors have had the dream of being on stage and not knowing what show they're doing.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But I, like, I lived it because when the curtain came up, I realized in that moment I almost wanted to fake fainting. That's how scared I was. I was like, if I just drop, then they'll have to stop the show. So every time I had to make an entrance, you know, there was somebody on the side and with a script and everything. I didn't, I couldn't have the show committed to memory, but I literally didn't know the show, Patrick. I'm talking about literally like I was The curtain was up and I went, I, I don't know anything. I don't know any, I don't know time, space. I don't know what the show is about.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I was like, I don't know. It was very terrifying. And I was like in the group numbers, I was just a little bit behind with the lyrics. I would like, you know, like where I'm a little bit behind you because I'm like, oh yeah, that's it. It was so, it was, it was terrifying because it was like that for the first week. You know, there was no time to go to get comfortable. It was just fear. It was fear all the time.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I was aware of the fact I'm doing a show and I don't know what I'm doing. I'm living the nightmare instead of living the dream. I'm living the nightmare. And that like, I— it was lots of little things where I would make an entrance and we'd be in the middle of a group number and I didn't know one thing about it. And I was like, oh my God, I'm standing here and I don't even know when to leave. This is so horrible. The main scenes that I had, I got through. All the rest of the stuff was just a— it was a nightmare for me.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It was a nightmare. I was like, the only other thing that can happen now is that all my clothes fall off. I just pull it. And I'm on stage. Just suddenly, I'm like, why am I naked? It was really hideous.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Did it ever not become a nightmare? Did you ever start to feel Flora the Menace: The Show and get into it?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

The last week.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, there you go. The last week.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

No, seriously, the last week. I always felt— it was a short run anyway. It wasn't a super long run. And you know, I don't know if this is true for you. I always feel like the 3-month mark is the sweet spot for, okay, we're here and now we go to another level. Another, like, I feel it the first 3 months is when you are letting it gel and finding things and you, but you need 3 months before, or at least I do before it feels like, okay, I know, I know what I'm doing. It's, it's that third month that you're like, now I can go to the next level. I keep wanting to dig deeper and get better and, you know, do more and more.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I don't think, I don't think the run was that long. So I never really felt it in the, like, things started to gel in the final week. I was like, oh yes. This makes sense that I enter here and God gets— and then we were— it was done because it wasn't that long. It was an uncomfortable gig where I loved who I was working with. I loved the people. But my own life on stage was always really scary. And because I was working in the daytime—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It sounds like a horrible place to be in.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It was terrible. It was terrible because it felt like that nightmare all the time.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It felt like I was always coming in going, "Which show is this?" Well, it's interesting when you talk about regional theaters that don't really have a lot of, you know, that 3-month window. You don't get that in regional theaters. I mean, you may get 2, maybe 4 if you're lucky, weeks of rehearsal, and then a month or 2 of run, and then you're done. So you often don't get that. But I think that's one thing that I love about regional theater. It just kind of like throws it up and it's a different muscle than, say, when you're on a long-run tour or a Broadway show like you've done. Like, for me, I know that I was cast in one of my dream roles, Don Quixote in Man of La Mancha, but I did it for $400 a week, less than $400. Sorry, less than $400.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I mean, getting paid nothing. But it was like, but I get to do this role. And, you know, we had 2 or 3 weeks of rehearsal and then I got to do it for a month. And it was like, I may never get to do this again. So it, that's one thing that I love about kind of doing the regional circuit, you know, kind of away from the eyes and the high profileness of New York. I don't like the pay. Yeah.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I don't like the pay. This is just going to make so many of my friends mad because it's so polarizing, my opinions on this. But I remember when LORT was started. God, that makes me sound like a stone, but, and like a rock. But, um, I remember hearing about that and, you know, being, I mean, I was much younger, but I was very cocky when I said that will never work. I remember saying that to my friends. I was like, no actor is going to fall for this contract. That will never work.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Because I thought, how can you take care of yourself on that little money and you're You're not going to do less because that's not what you do as an actor. You don't put in based on what you're getting paid or else our industry would suck. Right.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I've never given a performance that was based upon my pay ever.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I mean, can you imagine? Like, you know, so I, to this day, I'm, I'm like, I'm not in love with that aspect of it. I'm not in love with it because, and the older you get, the more bills you have. So you're like, "You're still paying me like I'm 18." Well, yeah, because I mean, as you say, a lot of performers—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

and I've been there— a lot of performers will sacrifice personally, financially, just to do theater, just to do this particular show. And of course, as we've been talking about, we artists love what we do. We do it because we love it. We're passionate about it. But how have you found that balance with making a living, the business side, getting paid, but then also being an artist and doing what you love?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Oh, I don't know that I've found the balance. I mean, I don't think I've found the balance.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Then do you just have to choose one or the other?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Well, because I— Don't do this at home, kids, okay? Don't follow my lead. But I will always choose to starve rather than not paid my worth. That's just a, a pit that you fall in that you don't get it, or, or to do something that I know I am not gonna have a good time doing this. Like, I am the person who will leave a bad situation without necessarily having a situation to go to. In life and in my career. So I don't know that I've found the balance. I know that a lot of people would look at me and go, you're a fool, but it's okay because they don't have to worry about it. You know, it's me.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But I mean, I don't know that I've found that balance. I just know that there are certain things that I will do and certain things that I, that I won't do. I, so when I was married, you know, we had joint taxes, and then when I was divorced, I, I was doing my taxes and, you know, it had been a while since I did them, uh, by myself. You know, I mean, I mean, as a, as a single person, right? So I kept looking each year going, is this all I made? Because I was working all the time and it was like my taxes. Changed what I say yes to. I, I looked and went, I've been working for peanuts and putting out that same energy as if you were paying me, you know, a million bucks. And my taxes revealed that to me, that I was saying yes more times than I should, and that I wasn't getting paid my worth. I was like, I have worked so hard all year and this is it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

This is because I did this for free and did this for little and did this for that, you know, and this was this favor. And the second year and the third year were different because I learned how to say no. And it was like, you have to create, set your own precedent and go, if, if I'm going to say yes to these things, it gets you in a hole and you're, you're the sacrifice that you have to make is. I'm going to struggle here, but people are going to either learn to hire me for what I'm worth as a performer, or they'll get somebody else. But I don't want to work for under this amount. I don't want to do it. And that is not an easy decision to make. And it's definitely not easy when you're not 18.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You know what I mean? That's not, it's just not, but I just looked, it was so revealing to me. And that's the thing is, you know, it's not just the business for the producers and then the directors and the incredible technicians. And it's not just a business for the investors. It's also a business for actors. And I think what happens— not I think what happens, I know what happens. We're always told and reminded, as if we have to be reminded, how much we love this business and what we're willing to do to play a role. I mean, you just said it, but I could never do a reading and get the great Tom Kitt. I'm only mentioning him because I worked with him and I love him so much and go, can you do this reading? Can you do the music for my reading for $300? It's just 29 hours.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Tom Kitt. Do you know what I'm saying? But you can be hired as an actor to do a show where Tom Kitt is doing the music and they ask you to work for $300 or $500. And I'm like, how come it's a business for you guys, but it's not a business for us? We have bills to pay. But this is a polarizing thing I'm saying, because not all actors agree with me, but you know, I know a lot of people, so I've been to a lot of homes, you know, when you're just socializing. And none of my actor friends have apartments like the directors I know or the producers I know. None of them live that way.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

That's a good point. Yes.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I'm not saying that actors don't live this way. What happens is the actors that are working and that have the awards and that they, that are famous. That are, you know, celebrity status that keep on getting the roles on Broadway because it's a business and you gotta have the people pulling them in. That's all anybody focuses on. But when you're not that, what you are aware of is there are more actors that are not living that life. And so actors, there's so many of you and everybody wants to do what you're doing. And so. In order to get this big production on, we gotta skimp somewhere.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

There's so many of you in the pre— in the— do you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. I could never go to Michael Mayer. That's, that's another director. Like, I'm, I'm pointing these people out 'cause I worked with them and 'cause I, I love them. Yep. And go, can you direct my reading? He's got a price. He'll do the reading, but he's got— his quote is way higher than ours. Well, I guess I'm crossing over into a question you were going to ask later on, which is, who is the most invaluable, do you think? You're like, who is the most undervalued? But I mean, actors, there's something about paying actors their worth because we are thought of as the 2% instead of the bigger portion of actors are not making huge money.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

They're not living in huge mansions. They may not have that regular role on television. Most of the people in both of our unions, in SAG-AFTRA and Equity, are not that upper echelon. Right. Okay? So people look at the whole as if we're that 2%. And there's this thing of, you love what you're doing. And do this for this little bit of money because look at the exposure you get. And look, you get to do this role.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And so I'm like, okay, so say all that is true. And that's certainly what Equity's point of view is. Hey, at least you're working, right? You know, that's what they always say. But my point is this. Everyone is really, really important. On any set, any stage, and you get everybody. Everybody is important, literally. When you go into the theater, from the time you're buying your ticket to the ushers to everybody, it's a collective effort.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But you have to have something to see. And if you don't have something to see, if you don't have someone willing to bring the story to life, Then what you have is a book. And what I feel is that people wanna produce these big, huge things, but pay us as if we're just reading a book. And if you ask to be paid what you're worth, what everybody is worth, you get the different narrative. You get, well, this is free for art and exposure, and look how big this project is going to be. And you're like, I get all that. But what is it going to do if you have no one to perform it?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

We continue our conversation as Shekat does something most guests don't do—call me out for my shenanigans backstage.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Patrick, you should tell your audience how you tortured me in the wings. How come you don't let those stories be heard? Tortured?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I was a model of professionalism at all times. You know what?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

What the audience can't see is that your nose is growing, reached the other counties, because that's not true at all.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, the thing is, is that that's what I love about theater, I think more so than being on a TV or film set, is that there is camaraderie, there is that playfulness. I don't feel like I can play around on a TV set. It is so like, "We have to do this scene." Depending.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Once you're on camera— If you're in the core group, that core group decides when laughter can ensue. But when you are— when you're a guest star, It's Shakespeare. Do you like, you can, you know what I mean? Like you can't, if somebody laughs, then you, you can, you can go, huh, but you can't join in like you're one of the regulars. You know, you have to be like, because it's not your tribe. Uh-huh. It's like literally they're inviting you over to, to their house and you have to be a really good guest. But our, you know, theater is that the core group is as large as it is or as small as it is. Then there's no like people coming in it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Like that's it. It's the family. You, you, you know, and it's also funny, like when I'm thinking about the Anne of Green Gables cast, shameless plug, shameless plug, shameless plug, is so incredible. But you and I specifically, the dynamics of not, you don't know the first couple of days, like who is who, or like you said, you're like, who's Sharon? But I just remember like The first— somewhere in that first week, we joked about something, and it never stopped. It was like from that moment, it was like— because your character is very stern, and my character is very stern. You don't know whether somebody is really that care— and once I was like, oh, he's literally like the most foolish person ever. And then it was on. I'm like, oh my gosh, my jokes.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And that's the thing that theater is like, gives you that opportunity to be like, see, a kindred spirit.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And to that point, I wasn't sure about you either because my first impression of you, I mean, you were so put together and you were so like ready for rehearsal.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I was so not put together, right? But what I'm saying— Because my father had just— Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

But what I'm saying is like how you were coming into the rehearsal space, you were very together and on top of things. And then you were so very serious, like, We are back on stage and we need to be grateful for that. It was just like you were just very impassioned about, you know, during your little rehearsal speeches that you would give from time to time. I was like, wow, she is really intense. And so then once you and I started like having a little like joke that— and it was like, oh well, and then many facets and then, and then many, many sides.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And then take that joke a little further and you, we've And then it was off to the races, which is what I love because in theater, I have found so many kindred spirits and lifelong friends that I haven't found doing TV commercials or whatever.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Right. You have to depend on each other in a different way. And it works best when you are each other's safety net. It works best when everybody's not just— well, I mean, I think that way for it. I've done television and film. I just think you should always be a team and a family. But it works best when you are like, I got you. And live theater, you have to have that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That was the thing that made me so happy and proud is people constantly said when they would see our show, they're like, we know that you're close. We can see that. We see it and we feel it. And I'm like, yes, that— it's so strong. And if something happened, you knew that the rest of the cast was like, I got you. Everybody had each other's back. Everybody. Just we are the ones that would see the different things that would happen on stage and go, look at how they recovered.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Look at how they recovered. Like, it would warm your heart. It would just warm your heart. So yeah, that's the thing that is really magical about theater and that you're just out there, never really know, within the framework of what you've rehearsed so well and what you've tech'd and made sure within that framework is a complete unknown world of, oh my Lord, this could happen. I didn't— I didn't know that this could happen, you know.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, in many ways, that's what that 2 or 3 week rehearsal process is all about. It's a— yes, it's about finding out the things you want to do and the directions you want to go. But it's also about getting those kinks out. It's about getting the mistakes out of the way. That's what I have to do. I have to get all my mistakes out of the way. I have to like just kind of like lay it all out there. Do the stupid things.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Because if I don't do them now, they're going to happen in performance. Right.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You want to— that's something that I grew stronger in the more experience I had, the older I got. The older I got, the more comfortable I got with being vulnerable in front of the cast, whatever show I was doing. Because there is a certain point in my career where I embraced what I knew was going to be a total you-know-what show in rehearsal. You know, it's always like that for me in rehearsal. And I'm like, I learned to embrace it. At some point in rehearsal, every show that I do, I'm going to say, why did they hire me? At some point, I'm going to go, how did I get this job? At some point, I'm going to go, why am I still in show business? How did I get— you know, like, And I, and I now, I know it's gonna happen and I embrace it and go, and by the, by the time that we open, it's gonna be different than this, what it feels like now. And so, you know, you, you, I lean into making choices that might be wrong cuz I'm like, it's rehearsal. If I don't do it here, like this, I learned how to be comfortable in rehearsal because I used to, I used to be uncomfortable in rehearsal and want to jump 10 steps ahead.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I wanted my, to already be performance ready. And I, and if I made a mistake, it wasn't good to me. It wasn't funny to me. It wasn't, I couldn't laugh it off and I couldn't shake it off. I, because I was younger, so I took myself too seriously. Like you tend to do that when you're younger. Oh yeah. And so when, when I was younger, I was like, I have not had the perfect performance.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

How can I go on? And also, this isn't, this was another thing that people didn't know until I felt comfortable enough to tell anybody who would listen. I had like just short of debilitating stage fright most of my career. And no one had any idea because I was working so much and getting big things. How difficult that was for me to keep getting things. I always wanted to be in the theater. You know, I can be in the dressing room and my favorite thing is as the theater comes alive with sound, whether you're doing a play or a musical. But the musical has its own thing because you hear the orchestra warming up and that's its own different thing. And it makes me Very, very happy.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But getting to the theater used to be torture for me because the entire day from early in the morning until I went to the theater, which I'm always in the theater early, but still it took the entire day to get me there, to get up the confidence. And then it became, it was always worse for me after I got the job. And I was like, this is terrible. I got the gig and I'm more nervous now and more scared now than auditioning for it. It was almost worse. And there was one audition where it was the final callback and I said I wasn't gonna go cuz I was thinking I, oh, they, this is so weird, but I'm sure some, some actor will relate to this. I was like, well, they obviously like me, and I don't want to disappoint them. So I should leave now.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Right. I can't give any bad— I was like, this is going too well. Out of the park. And now there's a final, final— Patrick, when I say final, I mean someone was walking out of the rehearsal hall with the job. Because people did things— In different times, there was a lot of different things when I was growing up. You did auditions in the theater on stage. I mean, that was the best thing ever. Even if you didn't get the gig, you're like, but I loved it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Like, that was big and huge. And because you couldn't see the creative team, they were somewhere out there in the dark with the rest of the audience. You know, it was so cool. It gets me excited just to talk about it. But someone was walking out with the gig and this is going so well. I can only disappoint them and I can't take that, so I'll just not go. And my mother was like, you know, that's the decision you should have made 3 auditions ago. She said, this is not good at this point.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It's gonna make you look— she said, you waited too long. She didn't care whether I took the job or not. It was the way it was going on. She said, no, they're like, they're That's unprofessional. And she said, and you're getting in your own head in that, in a way. She goes, they're calling you back because they like you because of what you don't have to, you know, she gave me a great, a great pep talk, but, and I'm, and I'm so glad she did. But like that was most of my career was, was that.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

When did that finally start to change for you? After my divorce.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I, I remember it was after my divorce, so it sounds like it was linked to that. But I don't know whether it was linked to that or not, but there's a lot of things that changed in my life. And I think maybe in some, I mean, 'cause I think when I got married, I got off my path a little bit for the amount of time that I was married. I think that I really was praying. I, 'cause I did, I prayed. I, I literally got on my knees and prayed to God. I was like, I love being on stage so much. And I just don't wanna be afraid.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I, I, I, because I was always thinking that it's like, I don't, I have all these credits and it, I would never see my body of work as a body of work. And that, that's just one of the things my mom, my mom was always like, you're never living in the moment. You're never, you're just gonna miss everything that you're doing. You know, I mean, she was, she was so correct. And at some point, I, I know what it, I know what it is. So maybe it is linked. I think the divorce was so like nasty and yucky to go through that my mind was focused on what was going on in my personal life and came through all my auditions. So I wasn't, I wasn't auditioning like, love me, love me, like me, like me, or what did they, I was telling a story differently and that I'm grateful for that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

So from, I started coming into the room and like telling people my story through whatever, whatever the character was. I'm bringing me instead of, you may have asked for 4 things, but I wanna show you why this is actually the way it should go. You know, I didn't know whether I was gonna like book stuff and I was just I couldn't wait to get on stage and that was so different. I was like, no matter what, how big the songs were, or, you know, emotional, I was like, I was fully there for the first time. And I never went back to that, you know, feeling like, oh my gosh, I, I would almost rather give up the gig than to do this final callback. Isn't that kind of nuts? But I mean, when I was relieved of that, when I was free of that, I was like an 8-year-old girl skipping in a meadow. That's what it felt like. I felt like I was free of this thing that really made my art not fun, you know? So I felt like I was this tortured artist instead of being this free artist.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

You have been in the cast of some of the biggest shows of my childhood. Yeah. Good Times.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Wait. So when you say that, it makes it seem like— the way you phrased that, you have been a part of some of history's greatest— tell me, tell me, because I know you know, what was Moses like? Right. Like, did he like— Dang. I mean, you asked that question and dust flew out of my laptop. Like literally, is what you just said is that you grew up watching me. Yeah. That didn't happen. No, that's not, I'm gonna be on the side of the podcast audience and they're gonna be on my side and we're gonna say that was shady.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

All right. But yeah, that's good timing. Oh, hold on.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Hold on. I'm going to rephrase it then. Okay, you ready?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But leave in the way you first did it so that they know how shady you are. Leave it in. Don't edit that out.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

For you, I will leave that in. All right, well, let me rephrase it then. You and I were similar in age, but you started so much younger than I did when it came to doing TV and stuff. And so some of the biggest shows from my childhood— and you were also young yourself— was Good Times Different World, Fresh Prince, The Jeffersons. I mean, these, these are all shows that I loved from the '80s and early '90s. And I mean, these were like milestones, not only in my TV watching, but, you know, like in history, these were, you know, milestones. Did it feel like you were a part of these big, huge shows at the time?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Um, A Different World did. It just feels like work. That's my honest— you're not looking at, oh, this show is it. With Good Times, it was irritating because my dad and I didn't work together. I was like, how is this possible? You know what I mean? So like, I really wanted— my dad wasn't working that day. And I was like, I can't believe this. And I had auditioned for other things and not gotten it. I feel like I auditioned— because I grew up with Janet.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I feel like I auditioned for Penny and didn't get it. I've auditioned to be my dad's daughter in commercials and didn't get it. I'm like, are you kidding me right now? Are you kidding me? You know, so when I did The Fresh Prince, it was just good to get the credit. That's how I always thought things like, oh, I auditioned for this and I got it. You don't know when something is new, what it's going to be. You know what I mean? And even with The Jeffersons, like, That actually, I was surprised I got. But A Different World, I really, really, really wanted to be on that show. And I was very happy about getting that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But what I didn't know is I didn't know that was going to be one of the most popular episodes of all time. That made its own history, my episode. And Don Lewis, to this day, you have to realize this is so long ago, we all get messages about that specific episode. And people will repost it and repost it to this day. Dawn and I were talking about that because it's also her favorite episode. I play an opera singer. These are the lyrics, and I penciled in our part. So we'll sing it first, and then you repeat it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

OK. OK. Ready? I really got to use— I've really got to use— Imagination. My imagination. Angela, dear, no one appreciates good diction more than me. I thank you. The word is I really gotta use my imagination. That's what I said.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And no, you said I've got to. It's a little thing but a big thing. I'm sorry. Shall we continue? Sure. To think of a reason, to think of a reason, keep on keeping on, keep on keeping on. I hate to raise that little diction flag again, but you're hitting your -ings too hard. It's just keeping. There's no such word as keeping.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

There is in this song. Well, I guess I can sound I'm stupid for a good cause. Here's something that is really scary that has happened on Instagram. I'm not an opera singer. If I were doing a movie and I had to play an opera singer and I worked with a vocal coach, I could play an opera singer. But I literally was like, you know, it's a sitcom. I got the thing. I made up this character.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It's a joke. I get this message from an opera Instagram account of black opera singing. I'm on that account. They're like going to remember, you know, Sharon Capitano. I'm like, no, no, no, no. You know, because people come to this account that like, you know, they know opera and they are. I'm humiliated because I'm like, no, no, no. Why, why am I on that? I'm on that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I just. I don't know what to say about that. It's like there's no part of me that is— that, that wasn't real. That's—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

well, yeah, it is crazy the things that we are a part of that we just don't know what they're going to turn into or what they will become. No, I remember we both started in commercials, or we both did a lot of commercials. You did it more when you was younger. It wasn't until I was in high school or college that I really started to do commercials. But I remember This was when I was living in Orlando, and I went to do what was going to be just kind of a funny spoof of a thing. And it was for this cable company. It was a series of commercials that they did, and I was the lead guy, kind of a Crocodile Hunter parody spoof. But little did I know that I do this commercial in the summer, and by that Halloween in Orlando, people are going as my character for Halloween.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Wow. Right?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Like, what? You don't know. Yeah. You don't—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

like, to me, it was just another gig. It was certainly fun because I was like in the water, and then I was like wrestling things. And I was— I mean, it was a very active shoot. But then come to find out, people really loved it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

My dad was spokesperson for Wright Brothers. That was papermate. Yeah. And then TWA, when there was an airline, TWA, and his character was Bud Jones. And I just remember back then when he was— it was, it was huge, like, because he was the spokesperson for that, and they would be like, Bud Jones! You know, they, they were calling my dad out, and I was like, this is incredible. I will say about A Different World, I learned something that, that was just very interesting for me. I did a movie with Molly Ringwald. And the script started out one way that's very incredible.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And unfortunately, the movie that was made was not incredible. So not incredible the writers asked for their names to be taken off. And I got it, but I got— I understood it because the script was so good. So I was on the road with Dreamgirls. I played Effie. And they were like, we're going back to Broadway. And I got this movie and I was like, oh, I've done Epi for a year. And I was like, this is a movie.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I wanted to get more movies, you know, I wanted to get more under my belt. And it was my company that went to Broadway and they got Lillian. And then they asked me to come when my movie was over there. Like, can you come and close it out? So it's funny to me because everybody's always like, oh yeah, you're the one that replaced Lillian. So I was like, Yes and no. They had to replace me. But that script that we ended up with, I would not have left Dreamgirls for. That— you see what I mean? Like, that's the scary thing about movies to me is I learned it firsthand.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I was like, that— the script that they originally wrote and that they were proud of, that was like, this is going to be a game changer for me, for my career. And this is a script I'm like, I love this, that they're treating young people not stupid. We were in our early 20s when we were playing high school. But then it turned out to not be that. But when I got the movie and people would ask me, what are you doing? Molly Ringwald was huge. She was the Brat Pack, you know, and her red hair and all that. So I made the assumption when I told people, oh yeah, I'm doing a movie with Molly Ringwald, there would be this, oh my gosh. There wasn't this huge reaction.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

When I did A Different World, people were like, Lisa Bonet show? And I know that it seems like I would have learned that lesson before that moment, but it was, you know how certain things you go, wow. There is nothing like television. I'm in a movie with a huge movie star, and half the people that asked me what I was doing did not know her. I was like, how do you know? They're like, Molly Ringwald. I was like, what? How do you— A Different World, the Lisa Bonet spinoff. They were saying, oh, the Lisa Bonet, the Cosby Show.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Cosby Show was so huge. I mean, everybody knew, all those kids.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But television, it's so incredible, the power of— The, it's a box. I know people have flat screens that are huge, but I'm talking about how it started. And I watch more television on my laptop and my cell phone than I do my TV. So it's even smaller that I'm willing to somehow it translates. You know what I mean? It's very funny to me. That's why I guess when you're saying like, did you realize you were doing this? I think I'm always thinking of it's work. I auditioned for this thing and I want it. I, I'm not gonna audition if I don't want it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I got it. And now what's the next thing? Like, that's how I always saw things. Later on, if it's all of a sudden on a, on a list of shows that are, that made history, then you, you do feel like, oh, that's, that's cool. I did an episode in that, but. When people are sending stuff. I think that's the part I'm just never going to get used to because it's so creepy. You know, I'm going to tell you what it feels like. And I hope that this analogy is not too crass.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I'm not saying a bad word or anything. But when people send me— look, everybody means well. I'm just saying it's me. It's not them. It's the way I react to the fact that I do not watch my myself. There's no reason I've done it. There's no reason that when somebody sends me a clip of whatever I've done and it's on YouTube, I feel like they've handed me my underwear and I'm like, how did you? I'm sorry. That's how I feel.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I'm going, how did you? You know, like, it feels like "Look at this!" And I'm like, "How did you?" That's what it feels like to me. I don't know how it feels to anybody else.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, I mean, granted, I have not done some of the big profile stuff you've done, but every now and then an episode or something or a commercial will come on and yeah, people will send pictures and I don't quite feel like that. But I'm more in just like wonderment. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's still showing?" Or, you know, that people are still watching it. It's just so weird.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It feels— I'm not— that's my analogy because that's what it feels like. So I'm always, I'm like, oh, that's cool. Thank you. And I'm like, I, when I would do photo shoots, my least favorite part was then having to pick out the actual headshot. You know, when you're getting your headshots done, I'm like, oh, why can't somebody else? Like, I, I did it. We got through it. Now you want me to look? And now digital, you could look at like 500. I'm like, I can't tell the eyes up, eyes down.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It's such a slight amount of movement either gets you the job or not. And I don't— it's too— it's just too much, too much shakeout. Right, right.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

We get in our heads about the littlest things because we feel like smallest incremental movement, or maybe if I do this a little bit better or a little differently, or like, we just feel like the smallest moments make the biggest impact. And for TV, film, when you're on camera, that little eye movement to the left or to the right can mean a world of things to that character or to that moment.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That's what self-tapes are great for. For. Like the world of self-taping is, it's a pain in the neck and nothing is scarier than the slate. I will do 2 takes on, on the scene, right? The thing that's supposed to get you the job or not and do 18 takes of just saying my name. And I don't understand, like it never, it just never, hi, I'm Sharon Caffey. Oh no, that's too desperate. Hi, I'm Sharon Caffey. That's too cheerful.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That's gonna scare them. I'm like, it's just your name. It's just your name. They just want to know who you are. Why is that so hard?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

You know, and well, to your defense, casting directors have stupidly made the slate, okay, not just your name and your height and where you live. No, that's normal. Now we need you to give us these 17 other things about your vaccination status and about have you ever done this and what do you feel about It's like, what?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Like, and then do we need a full shot of you?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Zoom in and turn around. Now show your hands back and front. Like all the different things. I'm like, like, I just—

Sharon Catherine Brown:

and you're making an assumption that my New York apartment is even big enough to give you a full shot that you want. You're making the assumption that I can back up without stepping on a cat or bumping into a wall.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And, and now I am— I'm not Sharon Catherine Brown, so I'm not at your level, but the roles that I go out for are usually 1 or 2 lines. So my slate is often much longer than my actual audition. So, right.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Oh no.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm like, I'm putting so much work into my slate and then literally it comes down to your range. Right. Show your personality. Yeah. And then it comes to the audition and I'm like, The reader has more lines than I do, so the reader's doing their monologue, and then I go, "Really?" Oh my gosh.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I get that. I totally understand that. No, the good thing that happens with self-tape is you are— like what you just said about the slightest little move, because you can't, obviously— there's no reason to perform to the back of the house, obviously, when you're doing a self-tape. Televisio— film. And for the longest time, that's why they didn't want to hire theater people. It was an assumption they made that there is no way we can pull them in. There was a time where that was a thought. Theater actors are too big or they're too loud or they— but you're an actor, you're an actress, so you adapt to each medium.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I mean, that's just what you do. And with self-tapes, you're getting to see it. Before sending it, as opposed to there are times where they would put you on film when you would go into the office and you always wanted to, to see it, but you know, you're not going to ask to see it. You know what I mean? Which one are you going to send? What do you think of it? You don't, you don't have that kind of thing. You're one of several people coming in. That's the part of it that's, that's good because I've been able to look and go, oh, I I don't need to look all the way over here. Eyeline is so important that they see you, see that person for real. And I am really grateful for that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But the rest of having to be my own crew member, I mean, those guys are members of IATSE for a reason. And the Teamsters, they know what they're doing.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I'm like, I'm with you. I'm with you.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You're everything. You're everything. But, but I, there's another part of that. The flip side is when, like, we have the technology, we have those things now. And I don't think there's a better time to be an actor because I, I used to stress over whether I had all the tools I needed. You know, I get headshots and then you need to get a new agent and they want you to get more headshots and you're like, I Excuse me. I, you know, all of this stuff, because everything is digital and it's the best time to, you always have your tool. I don't ever feel like there's something that I need that I can't get or don't have.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But that's the good part of it is that I have learned from it. It's just hard when you have several and you're working, you want to get it all in. But you don't want to just hand it in. Sometimes I'm concentrating so much on all the technical stuff, I'm like, hey, maybe I should learn my lines. Yeah. Yeah. How about that? Maybe I should get in character. I know.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I know. Yeah. It's a struggle. It's a struggle for me. And now that we've somewhat reached the end, if there ever is an end with us. But— Is there really an end? Is there really? It's more just a pause. Isn't this now—

Sharon Catherine Brown:

it started off as a podcast and now it's the Patrick and Shay Cat series. Yeah. You're going to win a lot of awards. Lots of— yeah, it's going to be— and you're going to get a BET Award. Hello, woman of color.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And that's really what I want. I can't win any other award, but BET, they'll give it to me. That was very smart.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Oh my gosh.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Oh my gosh. Well, let's get to these final 5 questions. What do you think is the most undervalued job within the arts? Actor. And why is that?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

This is my opinion, but it's my opinion based on, you know, it's— I have over 45 years in showbiz and I just think that when people think of actors, there are some people who genuinely love actors, but there are more people that tolerate actors. It's like we're a necessary evil, and you feel that. We are taught— this industry teaches you a mentality. As an artist. And I know people will say, no, a painter is the most— and I will explain. If you're the next big thing, or if you died 200 years ago and they find your art, they will pay ridiculous amounts of money for a painting, maybe just a few squiggly lines. Do you know what I mean? Depending on collectively what the community is saying is valuable. Now I get it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That doesn't help the artist if they're no longer here on this earth to— I get, I get all that. And so now here's my other opinion about this. I love Broadway debuts. I mean, I had one myself once. Like, I love when people are making— but when you have a show that has over 10 Broadway debuts, That's not simply because people are like, I just want young people and fresh and— it's because they don't want you asking for stuff in addition to your talent. Somebody that's making their Broadway debut that may be in their late teens or early 20s, they're not going to necessarily ask for stuff. They're going to take what you give. And then on the next show, they're going to be like, hmm.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

So they got to get a new crop. Do you understand what I mean? To me, that devalues all of us. I don't think that you should be paid less because you're younger. I was younger once. I don't think, I think if you're giving, if you're giving me the job, if I went through, if I jumped through all the hoops to get it, then that's worth something. And so I've never been of the, like, we all pay our dues. But as an older actress now, I don't look at younger actresses and want them to go through mess just simply because that's what I did or what other people— there's something to be said for being encouraged and for being uplifted, for lifting. You don't have to squash people down.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You actually get the best from them when you encourage them. And also when it's okay for us to be comfortable. That's the reason why I'm like, when you, ooh, I mean, I just know that this isn't a popular thought, but my feeling with regional theater, because I do regional theaters sometimes too, but the reason I pick and choose, I feel like if you're going to have Broadway, if you want Broadway caliber, You got to come up in the money. And if you're not going to do that, then you need to only cast locally and give your local actors an opportunity to be the stars and to draw the audience in. Make them into— give them an opportunity to be on a different level. Because what you're asking, we're always, as actors, expected to get 2 and 3 jobs. Everybody else can have the one gig that pays their rent, but not you, actor, because you love what you do. You're an artist and there's so many of you.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

So have that thought of, but don't you want to do this role? If we keep having that thought and having us devalue ourselves, um, what was it last, was it last year? Where something disparaging was said about understudies by the Broadway League. Everybody went to Instagram and went so crazy and all that. Understudies! And I was like, the reason I didn't throw my comment in the reading is because I've seen the way some actors treat understudies and standbys and swings and dancers. And We have to fix that within our community before we go and yell at somebody else for saying something stupid. That person can say something stupid because we have not fixed that within our own community. And we all know that. We all know that. Those, and it doesn't hurt to have these conversations and say, you know, fix it, let's do better.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You can't just pick that one person and go, we're going to grind you into the ground for what you said.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, but here's the thing. But based upon what she did say, I think it started what you're talking about. I think it started people looking at it, appreciating it. And I think it started a conversation of, well, let's value the— and I know that Equity has started to push a little bit more for swings and understudies to be paid on par and to give them bumps that they can get. So I do think that, yes, I hear your point about don't go after her when we need to fix it. But I think her statement is causing us to fix it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

No, she should have been gone after. It's just that some of the people that went after her, I know them, and I know that they were just jumping on that bandwagon. And I'm like, you're a little high and mighty. Because I know you and you're like, you know what I mean? If you roll your eyes and somebody else is going on, you're a part of the problem. You know what I mean? Because if it, it, like everybody's doing their job, but I feel like if somebody's going on and you, you feel that they may get in the way or something, you could always come to understudy rehearsal. I mean, you could do that. You could make one understudy rehearsal and go, can I just work with you on this or work with it? Would you allow me? Understudies would love that. So you have one or two members of the cast.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I'm not saying you have to do it. I'm just saying, rather than roll your eyes, you could always be uplifting, always encouraging. We could always act like, the family we are, that we say we are the tribe and go, let's help each other out with this. So that was my point of saying that is that there is a way that we have been taught to look at our own craft. Uh, that kind of, it makes light of what we do. Like I said earlier, it's a business for everybody. Not just the investors, not just the producers, not just the sponsors. I'm talking about film, television, and theater here.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I'm not just talking about theater. It's a business for us too. And so when you ask us to leave our homes, knowing we've got the, the home has to be kept up, the bills have to be paid, but now you're going to stretch. You're going to, I'm being stretched. Because now I'm in this place that's not my home. And that's, I've got bills here. There's a certain amount of stuff you need to be either on the road or in one place for a certain amount of time. But none of the people that you work for would accept that as a, as a weekly wage.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And when you speak about it, like I, I,, there was a reading that came up and they were paying $300. But for the work, you look and you go, you're not val— you're not, that's not value for the work that's being done. It's just not, it's 2022 getting ready to be 2023. The cost of living everywhere just goes up. It never goes down. And you're still paying people like they just got out of college. And even if they did just get out of college, I don't think you should punish people for that. Everybody, everybody that I know has a roommate because they're trying to make their rent, you know, especially New York and certain cities like New York, San Francisco.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And not everybody wants a roommate, not the people that I'm talking to. It's by choice. They love their roommates, but I mean, they would also like to live on their own. And not any like investors or producers are roommates. I mean, they may have spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends that they live with, but you know, it's not help me pay the rent, you know, and it's not that. It's we're choosing to spend our lives together. I think that you have to. To, uh, you have to cut this down to basics and say, if it's a movie, if it's a television, what if no actor showed up? I know that's never going to happen, but I'm saying, what if, what if people just are like, no, I'm not? Then how would you, then what would you have? You'd have a book.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I love books, by the way. We all do, but you know what I mean? They're not, books don't get ratings. Like that, you know, he'll put a book on a stage and go, there you go. It's valuable what we do. And it's not a, it's not, we're not clowns. You know what I'm saying? Like sometimes we may be childlike, but we're not, you don't have to act like we're children and it's not. It's not important as we're, as we're growing up and as we're gaining experience, that should be celebrated. But the, what I always say is don't give me the verbal tip.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I used to be in one of my day jobs, I was a hostess in a restaurant and I, I used to hear the servers say that, you know, somebody would go, you were wonderful. You were wonderful. And like give them a dollar and they had like hundreds of dollars and they'd be like, don't, please don't give me the verbal tip. Like give me the actual, you know, we pool our tips. This is how we make our money. And I was like, that's, that's what I feel like sometimes that actors get the verbal tip. And, and I know somebody will say dancers. This is why I didn't say dancers because dancers for the longest time were the bottom, just the bottom layer.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

They didn't get any respect. The only reason— if you get injured, yes, your career can definitely be shortened if you're a dancer because of how crazy that they have to work. But when you have a musical, there are more dancers hired than actors with roles. I know several dancers that have not been out of work since 2018. Like when Broadway was down, several of them did movies still, you know what I mean? Like they still had stuff coming. They've just gone from it. They're fabulous and they just book and book and book. Now you can be fabulous as an actor, but how many roles, right? The ensemble is always more.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

In each play, there's no ensemble, only actors. Okay. So how, how many for the plays? How many for the musicals? There's less to go around. And also, thank God, finally dancers are being elevated. You've got all these shows, you know, way back when So You Think You Can Dance premiered, it put the dancer out front and suddenly dancers were known by their name. This is like incredible. Hadn't happened in for so long. Yeah, people knew Sintrice and Fred Astaire, but these are ensemble dancers that people know their name.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And these are ensemble dancers that are becoming these big choreographers or projects. Their longevity has changed for them. It's changed for them. I just say this about actors because there's a possibility of getting less work all the time because there's not that— the numbers are just not as large. So, and I'm sure that there will always be people that know where the most underdeveloped, where the— but really think about actors are tolerated a lot of times, you know, because sometimes you'll hear a conversation. And I am also friends with several stage managers. That talk is different. Some people really, really love actors and some people are like, if we, if we could hire robots, we would, you know what I mean? And, and that's why I think, yeah, I mean, I really, I really think there's a, there's that some of the things they ask people to do for the amount of money, I think it's insulting.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I really do. I just think it's insulting. And I think that you're not supposed to ask for more, and you're not supposed to share your— what you're being paid. Don't let the other actors know.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And I'm like, well, that's a trick, right? Yeah, that's definitely something that needs to change.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You need to know, this is what I'm getting paid, and this is what— you know, that they want to keep you in the box of insecurity. They want to keep— they, who's they? Whatever this system is, is designed to keep you doubting yourself and feeling insecure. And I'm not saying that you should go to the total other side and be a jerk, a big-headed jerk. I'm just talking about value. I'm just talking about value. If you're not a multiple Oscar winner or Tony or Emmy winner, You're, there's more of those, those actors than there are other people that you know by name. Right. But they, they look and go, you guys, you guys are so, oh, you have the life.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And you're like, some, some do. And some of us are working actors trying to get, trying to get the brass ring or trying to get a piece of it. But, you know, it's, it's, I don't know that that's just always a sore spot with me ever since that. That year I did my taxes and went, and I'm saying yes to stuff I should not say yes to because it's not paying me. Like, this is crazy to end up with this when I've been working steadily. Something's wrong. Something has to change. And it takes bravery because nobody wants to be out of work and nobody wants to not have money.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Like, it takes you. Sometimes you are your own sacrifice. Yep. Yep.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

All right. So let's get to number 2. Wow.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That was just number 1. I thought, I thought we were on 7. That's what I love. Yeah, I was, I was like, I was like, that was one. Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I mean, you covered it though. You covered it. That was, that was the thing is you always know that you've got coverage. Yeah. That's Britannica. That's like, you need, you need, you need an answer. Britannica is here. Let's dive in.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Because I have so many thoughts on that.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, no, no, no, I get it. No, I get it.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You never ask me that because you're not ever supposed to say that by saying actor, because people are like, what are you talking about? Like, look, here we go. It's always talked about. But Patrick, you know that this is discussed on every project you're on. People say what I said, but they say it privately.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Oh, you know, behind the scenes they're talking about it. Yeah.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

All the time. You know, like all the time. I'm the lunatic saying it on your podcast. Oh, all right.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, number 2, in what ways— we've talked a little bit about this throughout our conversation, but in what ways has the industry changed since you first began? What would you say would be one of the bigger 1 or 2 things?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Social media and how it is used for— as a tool. But sometimes there are tools using it, and that's the part of social media I don't like. I want to use social media as a tool and get the tools off of social media and then we'll be good. We'll be good. But that, that's the biggest way it impacts everyone. And I don't think it's all bad. You know, the worst part, the worst part is the mean spiritedness. That's the worst part of social media.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I hate that. Um, I left Facebook in, I know my face is up there, but I left Facebook in 2016 because don't you miss, Patrick, don't you miss not knowing everything about everybody? Don't you miss the days where you can just kind of give somebody the benefit of the doubt instead of like doing the Home Alone, placing your hands over your mouth when you find out, oh my Gosh, you're hateful. You know, I miss not knowing so much of that and just like, I, I miss not being swayed by articles of clothing, you know, depending on what somebody's wearing, all of a sudden getting tense because how are you looking at me? Do you hate me or do I miss not having that extra stress? But in terms of, it's nice to let people know what you're doing, where you're doing it. You know, if it, it's a good way to keep track of many of your friends that are all over the place. Um, there's, I mean, it's powerful. I feel like social media is to our industry what television was to the, the world. I feel like when people were gathered around their television and whenever it was, the '50s, whenever it, the first one came out. I know you think that I was around then, but uh-huh.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Told ya. I'm guessing these numbers and they're like, wow, this little thing. I think that's what social media is. Well, not just to our industry, obviously to the world, but we're talking show business, that we're like, wow, this is so powerful. And that's why you should think before you post stuff because it's so powerful. It goes to so many places. Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And also social media has been a way that people have been able to not only create work and put things out there and talk about things maybe that they wouldn't, but it's also been a way that they put a big foot in their mouth about things that they've said or done. Yeah. Whether it's 75% or other comments that can kind of be taken in a certain way. Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

If you're, because you, because social media is, it's like anything else. Once it's written, it's in stone, even if it isn't true, right? It's like it's in black and white, it must be true, even though people weren't there. What I really love, like really, really, really love so much, I love YouTube because there are performances that we would never have been able to see that even if it's not great quality, you know, there's certain things for us as artists that you could see, but then also You could see so many cats that are adorable and dogs, but then also 5 hours later, who killed Biggie and Tupac? You know, like it takes you down the rabbit hole. You're like, I came here for cats. I now know who killed Biggie and Tupac. I didn't even come here for that. Oh, and then now I know how to bake a cake with just 3 ingredients. YouTube is like, no, I mean, if you have insomnia, YouTube is where you want to be.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It is, but I do like, like what technology does is it puts everything that you ever want to know in one place. And so that's good and bad. I can't get enough of cute animal videos and cute videos with children. I can't get enough of that. But the flip side of that, there's also like bad stuff that you're like, it's just, you could, you should not. It's too much. You weren't, we weren't designed for. So much of this mess that we're, that we're taking in, we were not designed for that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It's again, it's, it's easier because there's more access to it. You know, we can self-tape from anywhere now. So, so yes. But then at the same time, it makes our job harder because there's now so many different avenues that we kind of have to cover that if we're not in this social media, if we're not over here, if we're not reaching out, if we're not networking, You know, now there's just so many things, whereas before we would just go to auditions, but now we have to go everywhere and kind of be present in order to— and I think that that has made success and whatever that is going to be, it's made it a different path for all of us, a different meaning. And so that is number 3 of our questions. What is—

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Now that was smooth. Do you like that?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Do you like that?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That was— that was— yeah. You could get a date from that segue. Thank you. You could. That was smooth.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So number 3 then, what does success or making it mean to you?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I don't know that I've figured that out yet. I always like to be thoughtful. I never like to give an answer just because one is expected if I haven't really thought about it. Um, I am not the same since the death of my dad, and that just is. That, that is a fact. It's recent. I am very raw. I love my dad so much and it's, it's so unreal to not have him and it has It has colored my, my everything, every part of me.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It, I can tell that it has changed the way I go about my, that the way I go about my work. It has changed the depth of my acting. I can see it. I can see it. I'm different now, and I don't know whether it's for the better or worse. I don't, I don't know whether it's either. I just know I'm not the same and I don't think about anything the same way because my world has been rocked. And so I know what my answer would have been before, and it would have been a lot of credit, you know, if I could get a recurring role on a television show, if I could get in that core group and be on TV and still be able to do theater.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

That's what I always used to say. I want to be able to be in a show, whether it's a play or a musical, and taping in the daytime and being like, that's, you know, Just everything. But I know that I'd rather have my dad here and that, that's the place I'm in right now. And I don't, I know that, and well, you know this because we've had this talk, but for your audience, when my dad passed was 5 days after I booked Anne of Green Gables. And I didn't know that I would be able to take the show because I was so, I was just so destroyed. And I also, I, I was working the day that he passed. I, it, it just, it, I think I resented my career because it felt like I was working and doing all this stuff. And making plans to fly to LA to see my parents after the work was done.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And it felt like I chose my career instead of being with my family, and I resented it. You know what I mean? Does that be— I felt like, how could that choice be correct? Even though I didn't know it was, it was simply going this thing that I'm doing is going to be done on this date, and then I'm going to get a cat sitter, and then, you know, I was making a plan. And so it felt like that. It felt very much like I was supposed to go out after Carolina changed, and then this other thing happened, and it was so good. And so the things that I wanted before, if I get them now, I don't, I know I'll be grateful, but I don't know if it'll be the same because I'm used to having both of my parents root for me and run, and that, that's the first call I make. I mean, to this day, that's the first call that I make. It's the thing that mattered to me the most. Just like being the best mom that I could be, even though you don't get to really say that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It's your children that get to decide that, I think. But I'm trying. That's, that's important to me. So I think success has switched for me from, are you answering from a career point of view? It would always have been a career point of view, and I know it's not that anymore, and I don't, I don't really have the answer because of the place that I'm in right now. I'm very much in that place of going, I don't know. You know, it, it, I'm rolling this back to 5 hours ago when we started this conversation going, I'm doing the best I can do right now. This is the best I can do right now.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, that leads us perfectly into number 4, which is what is a personal lesson that's taken you a while to learn or one that you're even working on to this day?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

When my mom was trying to always get me to live in the moment, because she said it to me so many times. And when, I mean, I'm just speaking for myself, not all younger people, but being younger, I just was like, you don't get it. I gotta go for the next thing. What is the next? What is next? What is next? What is next? And my mom was like, you're not living in the moment. And I mean, I had a bad case of that. It's like, the second I would land a gig, I would be looking for the next one. I'm like, you haven't even started rehearsal. But I was like, I gotta keep it going.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I gotta get my summer booked. You know, that was my big thing when I was young. Gotta have my summer booked because you know how it gets, you know, in the summer if you don't have it booked. And I think for me, if you have enough life-changing events, it— life will force you to be in the moment. Life will force you to be in the moment. And, and I think that is what happened as I was getting older, that, because for instance, like the 2020 lockdown was really horrible because of the amount of people we lost to COVID. And so what I'm about to say, that is in no way minimizing that. I lost an aunt to COVID, so I'm, I am not minimizing that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But that is part of where I learned that lesson too. I mean, I'm still, you know, getting better at it. I don't feel like I've learned it. Let's on to the next. No, this is an ongoing thing. But no one can go anywhere. And actors know that's the break you would never, ever take, even though you need it as an actor. You need a mental health break like every couple of weeks.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

We would never take that kind of time to go, just going to do nothing. You can't do it. You would never do it. But I was, I was in the, in the moment for the whole pandemic. I was, I was like, when, whenever we get through this, at the time we didn't know, they're going to go into overdrive because this is a lot of money that the universe is, you know, all the countries are losing so much. We're going to go into overdrive. Take it in. Take it in.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Take the time. Take the time to just be and, and regroup. I, that, that helped me, but I had already been in the, in the process of learning that, but that was really like went into overdrive and, you know, I'm, I'm grateful that I'm better at that now. It really, 'cause I remember stuff. That's what I'm realizing when you are in the moment, you remember things, the little things that makes up the big important parts of your life. You know, and my mom, she just, that was a constant thing with her. I was like, boy, the older I get, the smarter my parents get. Right?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It's like, oh, I guess they actually knew what they were talking about.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Yeah. It was. I'm like, I get that. I get that.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, when it comes to advice, number 5, what is the most useful advice that you've gotten for your career and how have you applied it?

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Well, really, that would be— it's funny, it both comes, comes from my mom because, um, she said that always, you know, stay in the moment, stay in the moment, stay in the moment. But my mom taught me when I was little, she said, remember, you, you give a performance, you don't take a performance. And she drilled that. And I know it's not, it's not advice, but she was trying to, to get me to, to not be on stage and to do the, do this. Well, okay. Well, your podcast people can't see that. Wait, the audience. Okay.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Audience, podcast audience. I am very dramatically throwing my arms out like, I am the best thing ever. I'm the greatest star. That would be taking a performance because it's not for you. It's like we rehearse and we rehearse and we rehearse. And then when we get on stage, we've been given a gift and then we give that away. Not to say that we are God's gift to the theater, not in that way. Way, not in an arrogant way, in a grateful way, in a way of gratitude to go, that's the reason why you can have hundreds of people in the audience and they see the same scene differently.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

If you're doing it correctly, it'll hit people in a different way, but it'll all be great. So I mean, I know that's That's not really like advice. I never got, I've got so many lessons. You know, when I, when I was coming up as a, as a child, you, you were expected to listen. It wasn't up to you. You, you wasn't like have a big head. You're all that. And those chorus girls would look at you and go, oh, you're none of that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And you could be the star of the show. But even your age, it was like, you are learning from all of us. So sometimes it wasn't verbal advice. Sometimes it was just watching Dinah Mae Davis Jr. on stage and going, oh my gosh, watching my dad. Like, they, they, they, those people, they come from an era where they literally did it all. You know, my dad would sing, do impressions, play drums. Sammy did that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

They played instruments. And, but I mean play, I don't mean like, I'm gonna get up. Like, that's, that's what they, what they did. Um, so that's not in the form of advice, but you are watching people perform with integrity and do, and you're watching them. Just give and give, like Judy Garland. You know, there are certain people that the reason why they're great, they're legends, is because of the way they perform. You never thought that they were performing for themselves. You never felt that, even though we get so much from it, right? We get tingly when the audience is responding well.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

But those people, you saw them just like constantly give. I was mesmerized in, in the wings once. I was with my mom and I was, I think, 4 or 5. And then I was watching Melba Moore on stage in Pearly Victoria. And when Melba, I mean, she's still like, will contact me, which is crazy. She's such a legend. I'm like, what? You know, but I love her so much. And even though we know each other, I still like, I can just separate myself from the fact that she's a legend.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

And I was so mesmerized that while she was, this is the middle of Pearly, she's like, she's there on stage, they're doing the, and I started walking on stage and like my, just barely, you know how quick children are, right? Just barely got me. Melba was I was almost doing a duet. I was so mesmerized by her that I just started walking on stage. I, I mean, I mean, so that's what I can't think of, like advice that somebody gave me. It's me watching people going, this is, this is what I want to do in terms of the level. This is what, this is the level I want to be at.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And you weren't just seeing— I want this to look You weren't just seeing what you wanted to do, you were also seeing how to go about doing it. Yes, exactly that.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Exactly that. And that's, that's why, that's why I guess it's a weird way to answer that question, but that's, that's was my experience is I, I spent so much time watching. I spent so much time around, uh, grownups. For the longest time I was the youngest, so I've been in show business long enough to have been the youngest at one point, and then we were all kind of the same, and now I'm one of the oldest. Well, Lord, if it weren't for DC, I would have been the oldest.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Do you see what I'm saying? Well, I was one of the oldest in 42nd Street. 42nd Street, yeah.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

It's when you're— I mean, it's fortunate. It's so cool. It's so cool, but it's also— It's not super common, you know, to have somebody stay in. I guess you're, I don't know. I was talking to somebody once. I'm not going to mention their name because it was a private conversation, but they were, he was saying he was almost going to leave. He thought it was time for him to leave. And I was like, well, what else would you have done? Now this is, this is brings me back to your your original question when you were saying who's undervalued, I was like, we don't think of ourselves as this is what we do.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

This is what we do. You know, like a doctor will work and work and work, or a lawyer will work and work, but they never look at, oh, well, maybe I should leave. They never do that. Only actors do that. Maybe I could, maybe And by the way, this person works constantly, like constantly. So I'm so glad that he didn't make that decision because he's got like big, big things and he's phenomenal. But when I looked at him, it was like, it's funny that you thought that just because he was getting older, it had nothing to do with anything else. I was like, why? This is what— this is our profession.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, I got to say, it has certainly been a joy to work with you this summer. I love working with you so much. And it is, you know, it's one of those interesting things. As I said, I wasn't familiar with Sharon Catherine Brown. But as I was researching this interview, as I got to see some of the things, you know, and all the, all the childhood shows that you were a part of, and—

Sharon Catherine Brown:

I saw you in my childhood, just kept rushing back. Suddenly, I was like, "Wow, she's been a part of the fabric of my life since I was a lad in trousers." But it is amazing, just the breadth of the experiences that you've had, both on stage, on screen, and the family that you grew up with.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So, I mean, you've just had such a rich experience, and I'm just so honored to be a part of your performance history. History now and to be a part of that and to have watched you and learned from you.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

So it's been a joy. Oh, it's awesome. A joy to talk to you. You too. This has been incredible. And also, I've missed you so much. So it was double for us because we're doing the episode, but also, I haven't seen you in so long. So it felt great.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

For your audience, as soon as we saw each other, there was laughter. Of course.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Before we actually had words. Always. Always.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

Always.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Oh my goodness. You are exhausting in all the best ways possible.

Sharon Catherine Brown:

You're gonna have a lot of editing to do, young man.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, that about does it for this episode. I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones, in charge of writing, editing, and producing this podcast. Background music is from John Bartman, and the theme song, that was created by me. Be sure to join me next time as we talk more about why I'll never make it.