(The following is an automatically generated transcript, so please excuse any typos or grammatical errors.)

Patrick Oliver Jones

Rejection is a constant in this business. Even when you've had success, some days you can take it in stride, while other days it can really sink in deeper than you expect. I've had plenty of moments where I questioned whether I was on the right path, wondering if I should leave New York or perhaps even find another career or all together. At times it has been a real challenge to balance hope with reality, and there was no clearer example of that for all of us than during the COVID shutdown.

That's when I met actress and singer Adrian Walker. She has appeared on Broadway in the Lion King and Kiss Me Kate as well as the national tour of Dirty Dancing. It's hard to believe that it was five years ago, in the midst of our industry being turned upside down, that she and I sat down and talked about finding purpose as actors and the determination to keep going. That's something that remains an issue even after the Pandemic. Whether professional projects or personal goals, whatever came her way, Adrian handles the ups and downs with perseverance and humor. She shows us that resilience isn't some grand gesture, it's the steady, everyday choices that make the difference.

Welcome to why I'll Never make it, an award winning theater podcast about the realities of a career in the arts. I'm your host Patrick Oliver Jones, a Broadway actor here in New York City, and as we head into the 10th season of this podcast, I wanted to take a moment to look back back at 10 guests who have been so meaningful over the years. Their stories, honesty and lessons are still just as relevant today, reminding us of what it really takes to keep creating, performing and showing up in this business.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:02:16]:

Since the Pandemic shut down, all live stage productions here in New York, actors, directors and producers have gone online in an effort to keep theater going. And one Such presentation in December 2020 was the new Works Virtual Festival, a collection of plays and screenplays read by actors. And that's where I met today's guest, Adrian Walker. She played my wife in a short one act called now you See me, now you Don't. I've included a link to that production in the show notes. Now, although our time together was short in that virtual setting, Adrienne was very natural in the role and made an impression on me. So I'm very grateful that she accepted my invitation to come on the podcast. For part one of our conversation, we touch on some delicate but very important issues auditioning as a black actress and the need for authentic black voices in theater. But we start off talking about the Lion King, the show's history, both culturally and theatrically, and the pressures she faced in taking on the role of Nala.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:03:31]:

All right, Adrienne, it is so great to have you. So great to see you again and have you here on the podcast.

Adrienne Walker [00:03:37]:

Yeah, I'm excited to sit down with you and chat a bit. And, you know, we met from afar, and now we're talking again, so this is really cool. The world is getting smaller, right?

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:03:47]:

Yes. Yes, it is. Yeah. And that festival that we did, I mean, we kind of just met. Hi, how you doing? And then went into the Reading, so it wasn't really much chance to get to know everybody.

Adrienne Walker [00:03:57]:

Absolutely. I guess that's just the structure, because they cast, like, I think, like, 40 different plays or.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:04:03]:

Yeah, yeah. I was part of the selection committee, so we were reading a bunch of different plays and choosing this one or choosing that one, and, yeah, there was a lot to go through. And then. Yeah, I mean, what they put together was kind of amazing with that festival. So it was. I was impressed with the tournament because we don't know. We're just reading on zoom. But then they actually turned it into a nice little production.

Adrienne Walker [00:04:26]:

Yeah, yeah, I agree. It was fun. I actually. I did, too. And that was my favorite of the two. It felt good.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:04:34]:

Since 2016, though, you've been in one of the biggest Broadway shows that's around and has been around for a long time with the Lion King, and you've been a part of it for about four or five years now. What do you think has contributed to the show's longevity and its popularity with audiences?

Adrienne Walker [00:04:53]:

I think that with the Lion King, it's definitely a story that translates over different cultures and different societies, and that's why they've been able to put it over. Put it up in different countries all around the world. And I think the longevity of it is just. I feel like it's the story, but I also feel like it's Julie Taymor's vision and her direction. You know, they brought her on. She's not your typical musical theater director in any way, and she was very firm in her beliefs and what she wanted and her vision for the show. And I think when you give someone creative license like that, especially when they're coming with a fresh view and a fresh insight, then you allow them a chance to either flourish or flop. And this was a time for her vision to flourish.

Adrienne Walker [00:05:44]:

And I think because it's so beautiful, the puppetry and the Garth Fagan's choreography and just everything. And the music, the South African music. It all works in a way where I think. And when they were putting it together in 1996, 1997, that they were just creative machines. And that kind of speaks to the longevity of it, that because their creativity was able to flourish, we're able to see it, and people are able to enjoy it and love it. Sometimes when I look at musical theater, especially when it gets on that commercial level, I feel like everyone's license to be creative is not always free.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:06:33]:

Yeah. People aren't always diminished a bit.

Adrienne Walker [00:06:35]:

Yeah, yeah. Because the money. Because of the money and the risk and, you know, is this going to be mainstream? Are people going to hate it? Are we going to. Are we wasting funds? And, you know, all of that fear comes into play. And I don't know what was going on in 96 and 97 when they were creating this and before that when they were creating it, but I feel like there were some strong voices in the process that said, no, it must be this way. No, I'm standing for this direction. I understand that you may be fearful or you may feel like this isn't going to work, but I'm willing to take the risk. Will you join me in that? And I think that that's powerful, and I want to see more of that in musical theater.

Adrienne Walker [00:07:13]:

I want to see people take more risks because it's. We're breaking out into song. Why play it safe? That's already a very strange thing, you know, Right.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:07:25]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're portraying animals, you know, so you're already. You know, there's already. You're kind of regressing back to your childhood, where it's like, be a tree, be a cat, be a. You know. You know, those little skits we used to do as children. And I think you're so right that the. Yes.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:07:42]:

The story appeals to anyone who can come. You know, anyone can relate to some character on stage. But it is that presentation, the spectacle of that, the uniqueness of the choreography, of the costuming of the puppetry that really adds to it. And for you, most of your roles have been, you know, where you're portraying an actual person, a character, and the costuming is just part of that character. Whereas in Lion King, the costuming, it almost kind of takes over and is the character. You know, there's a lot of puppetry. There's a lot of motion that the masks or things can do. Does that help or impede the acting process when you're starting out?

Adrienne Walker [00:08:23]:

Oh, my goodness. When you're starting out, it definitely impedes for me, it was very uncomfortable. I actually was speaking with Jelani Remy, who was Simba for quite some time, and the first Simba I ever worked with. And he. His friend was telling him that he is kinetic, you know, that he. He understands his body. He knows how to communicate with his body. I am not kinetically intelligent.

Adrienne Walker [00:08:48]:

So being taught the Javanese style and Balinese style that they use in the choreography for Lion King was somewhat overwhelming. And then trying to pair it with whatever motivation my character had in that moment or singing was just so overwhelming. And they know this. The creative team and the production team, they know. So when you come in and the resident director's there and the resident dance directors there, and they're teaching you everything, they're like, giving you just little crumbs at a time because they know that it's like, whoa, what is happening? My body doesn't move this way naturally. How do I make this seem natural and comfortable? And how do I give it direction when you're not kinetically intelligent like Jelani? For Jelani, it's. He's like, oh, this is my lane. You know, he's like, moving around.

Adrienne Walker [00:09:42]:

And there were times when the rock didn't rise and Jelani had to create this beautiful final boosa moment. And he just walked around the stage and it looked as if that was how the show was supposed to end, you know, and he just.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:10:00]:

You have to love those actors who can take a moment that is not scripted and turn it into something beautiful.

Adrienne Walker [00:10:06]:

Oh, yes, yes. He's so good at that. But, yeah, I did find it to be difficult. I probably will discover that again when the doors open again and we're back in rehearsal and we're figuring out how to move our bodies again. I'm curious what it will feel like to be out of the show for over a year and do these movements again. Will it come right back or will I be terrified again for four weeks? I don't know.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:10:34]:

So there has been no plans to delay Lion King beyond anything else with Broadway. It's set to come back whenever it comes back, correct?

Adrienne Walker [00:10:46]:

Oh, yeah. The producers have been really firm with that. They've met with us a couple of times to talk about various things, but when that comes up, hey, are you gonna make us audition again, or is everyone's contract safe? Those kinds of questions. They've put everyone at peace and said, no one will have to re audition. We'll do a really nice, comfortable amount of time for rehearsal. They never really said any concrete what is comfortable.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:11:14]:

Yes. Yeah.

Adrienne Walker [00:11:15]:

What is comfortable because when I left Lion King briefly to go do Kiss Me Kate, and when I came back to the Lion King, I had two hours of rehearsal, watched act two, and I was back in the next day.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:11:28]:

So did it feel like getting on a bike again, or was there a bit of what am I doing?

Adrienne Walker [00:11:33]:

Some of it felt like getting on a bike. Other parts, not so much, because there's such a stamina that I acquired in doing the show with, you know, you're talking about the costumes and putting that on, and the corset is beaded and it's heavy and it's very restrictive. And so when you're doing the show, you work up stamina to breathe and to sing through that when you're not doing the show. You know, I'm not a runner. I have terrible knees. So building up stamina like that, it really only comes with doing the show. So that kind of hit me like a brick wall, you know, I'm, like, out there running and singing and belting, and I'm like, oh, my God, I can't breathe. But I have to pretend like I can, you know?

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:12:14]:

So coming into a show with such a long history, did you feel any pressure or responsibility to perform Nala in a certain way?

Adrienne Walker [00:12:24]:

Oh, yes, I felt a ton of pressure and not so much from the folks teaching me the show. I put a lot of pressure on myself just in general, and it's something I am working on. I've had a lot of time to sit with myself and sit with my flaws during 2020 and now this year. So it's something I'm working through. But I think, because Heather Headley was the first Nala, and you've got Renee, Elise Goldsberry is one of the previous Nalas, and it's, you know, such a rich history of the character and who's portrayed the character. I had one of those, are you sure you want me? What moments? You know, when they first hired me and then wanting to prove them right, wanting to prove to them, well, you made the right decision. I'm going to show you that I can do this, that I can handle this. So, yeah, that was a battle.

Adrienne Walker [00:13:20]:

And then something clicked, and I just thought, I think I'm doing a good job, and I need to accept that I'm doing a good job and have peace with that and be happy and really start enjoying this experience, because it's going to be gone and I'm going to look back and think, wow, did I ever enjoy it or did I just beat myself up The Whole time.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:13:42]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's very interesting. There always has to come that moment in every show that we're doing where. Where that confidence, where that surety kicks in and we're like, you know what? I am doing a good job. I can do this. And I think that's when we can really take off in a role. And was there a particular moment, maybe with the director or just yourself, that that started to really click in for you?

Adrienne Walker [00:14:07]:

I think it happened in different moments or segments because the show is, you know, there's the acting, which I felt. I felt came natural to me. I felt very connected with Nala and her motivations and her intentions and what she really wanted. I felt connected with that. Then there was the singing, but singing with the physicality and the corset and the costumes and everything. And then there was the physicality and the movement. So I felt growth in different parts of those three things. So I would have moments of feeling like I had an acting breakthrough, and I'm like, yes.

Adrienne Walker [00:14:43]:

Or I'd have moments where I felt like, oh, I finally understand the Balinese movement. You know, I know how to make this happen. And then I'd have vocal breakthroughs and then vocal plateaus and dips, you know, so it ebbed and flowed. It was never a peak of feeling great all the time. I'd have breakthroughs and I'd sail on that breakthrough, and then I'd have a setback or. I remember the first time during the Nala and Simba fight where I ran. This was actually the most terrifying moment of the show for me, and hopefully I can overcome that when I go back. But there's a moment in Act 2 where, you know, in the film, where Nala and Simba see each other for the first time, but before they know who they are, they fight.

Adrienne Walker [00:15:27]:

Well, in the Broadway show, Nala comes out like a bat out of hell and, like, leaps on Simba. And that kind of movement, for someone like me, who has a classical vocal background, who doesn't run and jump on anybody anywhere, was terrifying. And it's a trust leap. You run full speed and you leap in the air and Simba is going to catch you. That is the. It's a huge trust leap. So you have to trust your partner and you have to trust just all of it that they've got you and that you. You know, that it's going to be a good outcome.

Adrienne Walker [00:16:06]:

And so for me, because I'm not a dancer, I think that that was the biggest hurdle, literally, to just jump and trust that he's got me and jump without fear, because the fear was keeping me from jumping high enough, and the fear was keeping me from letting go and jumping in a way where we didn't collide. But you want the appearance to look like we've collided, but you don't want the impact of a collision on, you know, your fellow Simba. So I remember the first time I ever ran, jumped, and he caught me and it felt like butter. And I was like, that's what it is, you know, it's like a huge breakthrough moment. I was like, so it is possible, you know.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:16:49]:

Right, right. And then it's a matter of doing that every day.

Adrienne Walker [00:16:52]:

Eight.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:16:52]:

Eight times a week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was. Was that fear mostly of your own self and ability, or was it also fear of, is he going to catch you?

Adrienne Walker [00:17:03]:

Well, to be fair, he shall remain nameless. But one of the Simpas was joking that in another company, during a put in, he did not catch Anala. And I wish he had never told me that story because it just. Right.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:17:17]:

Don't put that in your head.

Adrienne Walker [00:17:19]:

I was done after that, you know, like, done. And so that messed me up. And then we had had a rehearsal where I had fallen. And, you know, so things do happen, but here's. Here's the gag. It's like, okay, you fall, but guess what, you're fine, you know, So I still needed to get past that. Even if he doesn't catch me or even if something goes wrong, I'm not going to die, you know?

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:17:41]:

Exactly.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:17:42]:

Exactly.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:17:43]:

Now, you had mentioned that you took a break from Lion King to do Kiss Me Kate. And I wanted to ask about that because, you know, a lot of us actors, we're happy just to get that one Broadway show finally. And yet you booked a second one while still doing Lion King. So how did that process work of being a part of one company while auditioning for another?

Adrienne Walker [00:18:03]:

I. I think it had a lot to do with me needing a creative break and hoping to hook a fish somewhere. And so my agent had been sending me on a few auditions just to see what was out there. And I went in for Kiss Me Kate. And it's so funny, because what they asked me to do in the audition, I was like, there's no way I'm gonna book this. They don't know me from Adam. You know, that whole, like, why me? Moment. And so all they had me do was sing a little bit of another opening, another show.

Adrienne Walker [00:18:38]:

And it isn't even the version that made it into the show. It was More legit, you know, more classical. You know, you just go up to a high A at the end. And that was the end. And in my initial audition, I had a little cheat sheet of the lyrics, because I always get nervous when a song is very fast and it goes from lyric to lyric, especially in an audition. People are staring at you. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm gonna mess up, and then I'm gonna be lost. So I had a little cheat sheet and didn't look at it.

Adrienne Walker [00:19:08]:

So of course, I went off singing other lyrics. And then I was like, I'm so sorry. I have a cheat sheet. And I didn't even bother using it or something like that. I said. And they laughed, and I was like, oh, okay, maybe I've got them a little bit. Maybe they like me a little bit. Let's try this again.

Adrienne Walker [00:19:22]:

So then I sang it again, and they said, thank you so much. And I was like, all right. You know, there was no scenes or anything, so I left. And then my agent called me and said, hey, can you come back on Wednesday morning at 10? And I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I could do that. And so I woke up that morning and I went to the park. I live in Brooklyn, so I went to Prospect park, and I just walked around and sang in the park to warm up, because I couldn't warm up in my building that early. And I wanted to be able to make sure that A at the end was nice. And so got ready, showed up at the audition, and sang for them.

Adrienne Walker [00:20:01]:

And I think the only reason they wanted to see me one more time is because Warren Carlisle wasn't at the first audition, and he wanted to see everybody as well, did that. And then Scott Ellis got up and gave me a hug, and I was like, oh, that was nice. And then a couple days later, my agent said they would like to hire you for Hattie, and they're giving you four weeks to speak to Lion King and work it out and see if they'll let you go. Because I still had. When my Kiss Me K contract would have started, I still had six months left on my Lion King contract, so they would have had to, you know, find someone. And so I went to Company, company management, and they said, hey, look, this is great. We love this for you. Let us make sure that we can find another Nala to replace you before we say yes.

Adrienne Walker [00:20:50]:

And so they went searching for. For Nala's who were available, who had already. Already knew the show and could just come in. They already had a costume for Them. That sort of thing.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:20:59]:

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Adrienne Walker [00:21:01]:

Yeah. And Cindy Winters answered the call, and so I was able to leave. And when I left, I remember John Stephanik, who's the resident director at the Lion King, he came up to me and he was like, well, you know, just between you and me, we're definitely gonna hire you back for it. We're gonna renew your contract. But what if Kiss Me Kate extends? You know, what's gonna happen then? And I was like, well, they're telling us, you know, it's a for sure closing date. And he's like, well, you never know. You know, it's just like, I think it'll be all right, John. Don't worry.

Adrienne Walker [00:21:30]:

So I still can' that I was able to just bounce from another show into Kiss Me Kate and then go back into the Lion King, you know, and everyone was okay with it, so it felt really good. You know, sometimes it could. It could be scary to ask your employer, hey, can I leave for a little bit?

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:21:49]:

Right, right. Because. Because you do not want to mess up, you know, your. Your term with Lion King, you know, because that. That show is going to obviously keep going. Kiss Me Kate has a limited run, so. Yeah, you don't want to mess up your opportunities with Lion King.

Adrienne Walker [00:22:02]:

It sounds like to me, especially when I sat down and talked with John about it, that they want their actors, especially when their actors have been there for a while, they want them to be fresh. And if leaving for a bit and coming back makes them renewed, makes them feel renewed and more fresh to do the job, then they're open to it, as long as they're covered as well.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:22:25]:

And so I assume you were gone for what, three or four months then from Lion King?

Adrienne Walker [00:22:29]:

I was gone for just over six months, so I. Oh, it was six months.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:22:33]:

Okay.

Adrienne Walker [00:22:34]:

It was. Yeah. I left Lion King, I think, just before New Year's Eve. And then I started kiss me Kate January 2nd, and I was back in the Lion King by. Actually, they gave me two weeks in between. I needed a break because I only had two days off between the two shows. And when I finished Kiss Me Kate, I really needed a break. I needed a vocal break.

Adrienne Walker [00:22:55]:

My voice was done, and I had also broken my toe and Kiss Me Kate and never let it heal. So I just needed a second so that I could run and everything. But they gave me two weeks off, and I started back at the Lion King, I think, like, July 14th or something like that.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:23:11]:

Wow. Wow. And did it feel. Feel crazy getting back into Lion King again?

Adrienne Walker [00:23:18]:

It Felt at that time, it felt good. It felt really good. But then after a few shows, the old aches came back. Yeah, it's so crazy. It's like I was like, oh, I feel like a new woman. And then, like, by Sunday, I'm like, oh, my God, my knees. You know? So it's interesting how that all happens. I don't know if it's mental or if it really is physical, but we'll see what happens when we all go back to work.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:23:46]:

Right, Right, exactly. Now, when it comes to the roles that you audition for, what is it that attracts you to a particular show or role?

Adrienne Walker [00:24:06]:

You know, I've auditioned for quite a few, not so much shows that are already running. Like, I've auditioned for just a couple of shows that are already running, and then I've auditioned for workshops of shows. And I'm really not one to say no. I'll pretty much say yes to just about everything, at least if it's an audition. And I think what attracts me the most is when I love the music. I've auditioned for a few things where I immediately fall in love with the music. And I know that I love the music if I can learn it quickly, and if I'm singing it weeks after the audition, then I'm like, oh, yeah. Ooh, I remember that.

Adrienne Walker [00:24:47]:

That was fun. That was great. So that really attracts me to auditions. I've also gone in for stuff that I don't so much believe in, but I think I'm not a writer. And so this is being produced. Someone believes in it. There's a vision. Maybe I just can't see it yet.

Adrienne Walker [00:25:06]:

And it's always really fun to be called in for stuff that I'm not, that I don't see myself in, you know, because that excites me. It means that someone sees me in. In a way that I haven't yet seen myself. And that means that if I were to book it and work in that show, then I would. There would be some growth there because I would be reaching into parts of myself I don't normally give energy or time to.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:25:34]:

And this is something that, in speaking with other people of color, that I think someone like me, someone who's white, may not think about in that, whenever I go into an audition, I'm thinking about the character, the scene, the song, whatever. And I'm not really thinking about my whiteness, so to speak, bringing it for you. Is your blackness? Is that something that you feel like you bring into an audition? Is that something that you either need to Highlight or diminish, depending on the role. How does it feel to you going in and auditioning for different characters?

Adrienne Walker [00:26:08]:

I feel for me, it's always something I'm aware of. It's never been anything I ever turn off. Being black is something I'm always aware of, especially when I'm called in for a leading lady or for her best friend or something like that. I am curious why, because we haven't moved far enough in the casting process for that question to not come up. And so sometimes I feel like, okay, are they really considering someone that looks like me, or are they just trying to make sure that they continue to call people of color in for all roles? And especially when I read copy that I can't identify with at all. You know, if there's a lyric in it talking about blue eyes or blonde hair, it's a little off putting to say, sing it. I'm like, are y' all gonna change this? I know it's a revival, but, you know, it's. It's that.

Adrienne Walker [00:27:06]:

So that's a little uncomfortable. But I don't know. I haven't. And I'm grateful for this since I moved to New York because I got my theater start in Chicago, but since I've moved to New York, I haven't had an experience in the casting room where someone has asked me, you know, for lack of a better phrase, to black it up or to make. Make it look more. You know, people like to use the word urban or street or black, you know, but all black folks are different, you know? Right. So I know what people mean when they say that, but it doesn't mean that I'm less offended just because I know what it means and because it's still based.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:27:47]:

That question is based on a stereotype. Rather than taking Adrian for Adrienne or someone else for themselves, it's like, no, we need you to be this black character that we all think about.

Adrienne Walker [00:27:59]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't really consider myself an Effie, meaning her voice. I'm not an Effie style singer, and I will say that that kind of has come into play throughout my career that people see a black woman and they expect that that black woman can sing that style, and it's just not true. I'm a classically female trained singer that can belt because I grew up in a black church. And, you know, that was the first singing style that I did learn. But my voice really does mesh better with a vibrato sound. And, you know, a fully supported covered tone is more, you know, What I dig, that's more my.

Adrienne Walker [00:28:46]:

My thing. So, yeah, I feel like that's still something working through. I don't know when that will end. It's about what people have decided is true and what actually is true. And I think it's also going to take more actresses like me that look like me to say, hey, no, I actually sound like this. Can I try it this way? Actually, my voice doesn't do that. And if I sing like that, I'm going to lose my voice. So I think that that's important, too, to speak up.

Adrienne Walker [00:29:22]:

Because we are where we are for a lot of different reasons. But one of those reasons is not feeling empowered to speak up. So if I've learned anything about the 2020 and everything that has transpired in 2020, it's that I need to speak up more. And I feel good about that. I feel really good about that.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:29:40]:

And this is just in my own experience. I happen to be thinking about it. I was talking with my husband, this was a couple of months ago, and we were talking about the casting process and how, you know, since I've been in New York since 2008, I tried to think about the number of black casting directors that have been behind the table, and I can't think of one. There's been. I remember there's been maybe a couple of Asians, a couple of Latinos, but it's mostly been. It's mostly been women, but it's mostly been white. And I wonder if that is a part of that reason why we. Why you're still asking yourself that question.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:30:19]:

Why me? Why? Is it because I'm black? Is it because they want something specific?

Adrienne Walker [00:30:25]:

Yeah, it could be that. I think part of it is just my personality and me working through my insecurities and deficiencies. But I think also it is, you know, a paranoia that I feel like people are trying to do the right thing and overcorrect. And in their overcorrection, they're not really seeing us or seeing people in their whole selves. Because, yes, I am black, but I'm also. I consider myself a certain type, you know, within the character spectrum. And so because of that, if I get called in for something and it doesn't really fit in with the type or how I see myself, it could mean, okay, great, this is a chance for me to grow. But it could also mean.

Adrienne Walker [00:31:12]:

And this is the paranoia setting in is that they don't see me and they're just trying to fill a quota. And that definitely comes into the creative process. For me, when I'm trying to learn an audition, because in the back of my head I have this question of, okay, well, why am I being called in for this? You know, what's going on here? Yeah, that definitely happens.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:31:33]:

Yeah. Cause when I had Michael Kilgore on, he brought up the example of Oklahoma. Stage full of white people, and then there's this one black couple off to the side, and it's like, wait, what are they doing there? And why is it that these two people together, why aren't that, you know. So it's. Yeah, it is. I can imagine that it would feel like, okay, they're casting directors. They're just trying to placate. They're trying to be this inclusive, diverse company, and so they add a sparkle of color and then they're good.

Adrienne Walker [00:32:06]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of times they call it the token, you know, And I know that that's gonna. I hope it starts phasing out, but I don't know. It's so nuanced. There's so much to it.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:32:23]:

Because I think in general, I think it's coming from a good place of trying to be like, okay, you know, we're recognizing that a lot of these kinds of shows or this type of casting has been mostly white. And they're trying to. But it can seem like they're just trying to fill a quota rather than. Yeah. So I think there's going to be that transition of trying to overcorrect forward. It's going to feel like a quota until it eventually. It's like, now everyone is kind of on the same playing field. Everyone is being considered equally.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:32:57]:

And your skin color. They're not trying to fill a black hole or a white hole or an Asian. They're just trying to get the right person for the right mix of people. And. And, yeah, I think we'll eventually get there. And I think that is everyone's goal. It's just a matter of how we're going to achieve that.

Adrienne Walker [00:33:14]:

Yeah, I agree. And I feel also to that point that when they are trying to fill a quota, sometimes they miss casting the best person for the part. So it's like, well, I just want to see the best person for the part. Yeah, I do want to see some diversity on stage. You know, we're craving that. But don't just fill a quota and then hire someone who's just passable because that makes us all look bad. It's like, well, see, this is why we don't hire you guys. That's how it Feels right.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:33:49]:

Which is a horrible place to be. Yeah, exactly. Now, this is something that I found to be interesting. And on Disney, they have all these different categories of movies, and one was called black voices. And so it's mostly black cast of this movie or this. This animated show or whatever it is. And the Lion King was on there, and it got me thinking. I was like, why is Lion King considered a black show or a black voice? Yes.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:34:18]:

Certainly on Broadway, it's a majority black cast. But like you said, I see the story, and you're portraying animals which aren't any color. So. And the story is universal. So do you see Lion King as being a black show or a black voices type of category?

Adrienne Walker [00:34:36]:

Hmm. I guess I've never really given it any thought. And if I go back to my young self that saw the movie in 1994, did I think of race at all? No. Did I say, oh, this movie is about me? No, the movie is about Simba, and Simba was voiced by a white actor. And so I guess I didn't really see it that way. I think with the recasting of the film in the 2019 production, there is more diversity in the casting. I think the only reason they might have said black Voices is because of its rooting in South African culture and the music. But that.

Adrienne Walker [00:35:29]:

That's probably. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I see a lot of that in the streaming networks. You know, Netflix has their level of their equivalent to black voices. I don't know what they call it. The same for Amazon prime and Hulu, and I get the importance of that.

Adrienne Walker [00:35:55]:

For some reason, it kind of rubs me the wrong way, and I feel like it's because it's great to have a fast, quick way to discover these materials or find them or just, you know, skim through them. But it also is a nut. It feels like another iteration of white until proven otherwise. For me, if I'm searching for braiding styles, if I go to Google and I'm like, ooh, you know, I need some inspiration for my hair. You know, I wanted some braids. Whatever. If I Google braid styles, I'm going to get 100,000 hits of white girls in braids. But if I Google black women braid styles, then I finally get what I want.

Adrienne Walker [00:36:39]:

And that's kind of what walking through this world feels like is just white until proven otherwise. You always have to have a little, you know, prefix to explain it. And then, you know, so I'm sure there's people that would disagree with me, and they're just happy to see Black Voices up there as a category on these streaming services. I'm also happy to see it, but I'd be lying if I denied that I also feel these other feelings about it too.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:37:11]:

With every guest I bring on the podcast and the conversations we have, I pretty much learn something each time or see something from a new perspective. But talking with Adrian was rather eye opening. What she said about White until proven otherwise really struck me and drove home the point that none of us should really have a default setting with how we relate or communicate with other people. It can be too easy to know one, maybe two things about another person and from that little information extrapolate an entire personality and personhood upon them. If we focus too much on this group or that group, then we can lose sight of the individuals that comprise these various communities. And that's one of the biggest things I love about this podcast. Getting to sit down with individuals like Adrian and getting to know them on a more personal, individual level. And we're certainly not done yet, so stay tuned for part two of our conversation where we talk about her weekly series called 32 Bar Cut.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:38:18]:

We also get into audition specifics and other favorite roles she's had on stage. When it comes to auditions, there are three basic reactions that we actors have. There's the joy and elation of nailing the scene or the song and really connecting with those in the audition room. On the flip side, there's the frustration and disappointment of messing up or maybe not being as prepared as we thought we were. And then there's the third one, and for me, this is the dreaded shoulder shrug. I don't know ambivalence of what just happened in the room. I kind of walk out of the room, not really sure how I did yet. The job of us actors is to pick ourselves up and move on to the next one.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:39:16]:

That, of course, is certainly easier said than done. For part two of our conversation, Adrian and I swapped stories of fateful auditions and performances. We also get into her YouTube series called 32 Bar Cut, where she seeks to help others navigate this tricky business. But first, I dig a little deeper into something she said in Part one about bringing her blackness into the audition room and try to gain a better understanding of what that means to her.

Adrienne Walker [00:39:49]:

When I say I bring my black self into the audition, I I just mean that I'm very aware that the casting process is dependent upon looks and everything, and so I know that I may or may not book the job because of my blackness and not simply based on talent. So that's what I mean by that. Not so much how I portray myself. Everything I go in is very, I feel like I hope I'm doing it is very character driven and, and I don't really see myself putting on anything that doesn't feel natural to me. I really hate this. Happens a lot in TV and film auditions for me. I'm not great at putting on a character that has grown up in a crime riddled area or can speak with slang, with ease. It's not really something I do easily.

Adrienne Walker [00:40:52]:

But you know, if you want to see a southern girl, I got you. You know, I'm from Georgia, I can do that. So that part is difficult because I wish that I could tap into that. But it does feel like a bit of a war because if I tap into it then that means that, hey, look, I'm an actor and I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. But it also feels like I am, I don't know, I don't, I don't really think stereotype, but it feels like I am putting on someone else's clothes. And that doesn't feel good.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:41:28]:

Yeah, because then you don't want to perpetuate any of those stereotypes. You don't want to just, you want to show that diversity of, you know, this is one way a black person is. Here's another way. Here's another voice, you know, the way you sing, the way you carry yourself. Yeah, it's all, it's. There's not just diversity of color, but there's diversity within each color.

Adrienne Walker [00:41:48]:

Yeah, absolutely. And don't get me wrong, I celebrate all types. It's not that, that I feel like, you know, I live in Brooklyn, so it's not like I'm saying the girl down the street cussing somebody out is not worth her salt on the screen. I want to see her too, but I don't want to pretend to be her for the sake of booking a job. I feel like someone else can play her better than I can and I want to see that person do it rather than me trying to pretend to be something I don't do. Well, that irks me when I see, when I see that, if that makes any sense.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:42:27]:

It does, it does. What we've been talking about is that the inspiration that led you to start 32 bar cut.

Adrienne Walker [00:42:41]:

Well, actually it all kind of sprang up for me in May of 2020. I was bored. I was staying at my in laws in Holt Summit, Missouri, which is outside of Jefferson City, Missouri, wouldn't even know it existed if my husband's dad didn't live there. So I was. We were staying with them, and I was needing a creative outlet. So, honestly, I was going to start a blog. I was just going to start a blog where I just talk about what I'm up to and what I'm doing. And my sister pointed out to me, like, that I, you know, that this was not my passion.

Adrienne Walker [00:43:18]:

What are you doing? And I was like, oh, you're right. Let me sit and think about what I am passionate about. And that's kind of how 32 Bar Cut was born. And the name came to me simply because that's what you're asked to bring in for general musical theater auditions. And so I was like, oh, that's a great name for a block. I'll call it 32 Bar Cut. Looked up on the Internet, you know, if 32barcut.com was taken and it wasn't, I was like, how is this not taken? So I just went ahead and got a, you know, a domain and then Instagram and Twitter, and I thought, okay, let me come up with what this is going to be now that at least I have the platform for it. And I talked with some friends about my ideas, and they kind of steered me towards creating a YouTube channel instead of a blog because it's more accessible and more searchable.

Adrienne Walker [00:44:08]:

And I decided that with my knowledge of kind of having an unconventional route to Broadway, that I would speak on that and then also just give audition advice, because I worked as a reader for quite some time, and I've seen so many auditions, and I feel like I've seen what goes right and what goes wrong and kind of why. And I thought, oh, let me help people out with this a little bit, you know, and that's really kind of how it was formed. And since then, it's kind of turned into something similar to what you're doing. I just interviewed some friends, and so I'm just going to sit down with friends and chat with them and talk to them about their audition experiences and any guidance they can give, because I can only give so much, and I can't sit down and talk forever because, I mean, I've made my way, but I don't consider my way the only way. And so I want to sit down with friends and chat about. And so that's going to happen February 19th. That'll be the first episode. And it's been really fun and difficult, and it's pushed me in a way that I wasn't expecting at all.

Adrienne Walker [00:45:20]:

I'm sure you've experienced that with your podcast. Why I'll Never make it is that you have an idea and then it takes flight and you get to watch it flourish. And that's kind of what 32 Bar Cut has felt like for me. And it's been fun. It's been rewarding. I've gotten to connect with young performers and encourage them and give them guidance, and it's way more than I could have imagined. And it's still just a small following, but it really fills me up and makes me feel like I'm helping or contributing while I have this extra time to do so.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:45:56]:

And for the advice and the stories that you tell through 32 bar cuts. But what advice have you given that seems to have resonated the most with the followers and listeners you have?

Adrienne Walker [00:46:07]:

Actually, the black hair on Broadway 1, I was so scared to put it out there. I hadn't planned it. I read this one follower's question and I got so triggered by it that I just turned on the camera and just spoke. And I was so afraid because I didn't know how people would receive it. I knew that other people would have a different experience and think, oh, no, you should look like your headshot. It's not a big deal. But like we've said before, our hair textures are different. Someone who's also black but has a different hair texture than me might be able to pull it off, no problem, but I can't.

Adrienne Walker [00:46:48]:

And girls with textures like mine can't do it. So I was nervous and I was so surprised by the response and, you know, just the number of people who shared it and wrote to me personally. I had, you know, a few emails and a few messages from folks who wrote to me personally and, you know, wanted to see things change. And so, yeah, that's the one that's impacted me the most. It has made the most impact. It scared me the most, but it made the most impact.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:47:22]:

And with the audition advice that you give, what nuggets or pieces of advice have you felt has resonated and been the most helpful to people?

Adrienne Walker [00:47:34]:

I think the first one I noticed was talking about rejection. I shared a really personal story about being invited to do a workshop, and the role was life changing. Had I booked, had I moved with the show, it would have changed my life. And I was so excited to be chosen. I had another YB moment, you know, and it was at a time where I was struggling vocally. So even though the role was perfect, for my voice, because my voice hadn't yet healed, I couldn't put my best foot forward. I went to the ent, I got a steroid shot. I was doing everything I could, but I think that the director no longer had confidence in me.

Adrienne Walker [00:48:21]:

And even though I sang the presentation like no one in the audience could tell, but because I had had a few hiccups just in that one week of the 29 hour reading. And who else knows? I can't cast myself. I don't know why else they didn't pick me, but that was really difficult to book something so quickly. It was just a one quick audition, you know, they hired me for the 29 hour reading. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. And the people that were in the room, the people that were cast alongside me were just amazing. And I thought, wow, this could really change my life. This could really prop me up.

Adrienne Walker [00:48:58]:

And the sad thing about our profession is that you don't really get a follow up. No one ever says, hey, you know, thank you so much, but we're going to go a different way. It's like you, you don't hear back. You just hear that they're doing a workshop and you're not invited. I wish it wasn't like that. I wish that producers or the creative team took a little more kindness for us folks at the bottom.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:49:25]:

Yeah. Because when we're cast in a show, it's great to get the feedback from the director or the choreographer and then you work on things, you fix things. But in an audition setting, nine times out of ten, it is just silence. We get no feedback. We, you know, we'll go to our agent or whoever and be like, did they say anything? I mean, that's, you know, we just want something like, yeah, work on this, or here's why we didn't do that. But yeah, that silence can just. Because then we're in our head and we're coming up with our own reasons. And it may be the right reason or it may be completely wrong.

Adrienne Walker [00:49:58]:

Yeah, I think that is the difficult part. And it's funny because in the classical world, when I was auditioning for programs or for grad school or anything like that, I always got a rejection letter. I always got a letter. Tie it up really nicely. And that's just not the case in theater. I'm not sure why. That isn't the culture. I know that it's so competitive and there's hundreds and hundreds of folks, but yeah, that part is still challenging.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:50:27]:

Yes. Yeah, it definitely is. It Definitely is. Yeah. It's one of those things where I think casting directors just have so much on their plate. So it's just not something that they want to devote time to because it's not going to get them, you know, because they have jobs, too. They have to get the next job, the next show. So, yeah, that's something that they're working on themselves.

Adrienne Walker [00:50:48]:

Yeah, definitely. So the lesson is, okay, how can you train yourself to not care? How can you leave it in the room? Right. And I'm going to go get a croissant. You know,

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:51:09]:

You had mentioned, especially as singers, that our voice is really what we come into the room to show off, you know, and when it's not at 100%, we have to adjust or maybe we can't do that audition, whatever. But I had a similar experience to you in a show that I was doing. It was an off Broadway, but it was, you know, showcase. So it's like a 800 bucks, and that's all you get. It was one of those where the music, the role really resonated with me, and it was going great. Then we get into opening week and just the busyness of tech, the busyness of the rehearsals, and not getting enough sleep. And so by the time we're starting to open, my voice was just not what it was. It was maybe 80% of what it needed to be.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:51:49]:

And I had some pretty rangy stuff that I had to do. And, you know, then the music director's having to come in. Okay, well, let's. Let's alternate this and maybe, you know, take this alternate note. And then they're checking up on me. How are you feeling? So I felt like that they were taking care of me, but I also felt like an imposition, and I felt like that I was failing my job as a singer. And so they did some altering of notes and this and that, and then once we got past that opening weekend, then my voice started to come back, and then I was back to normal. But I do feel like that week of not being 100% affected what they thought of me.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:52:28]:

And as you say, that maybe the director just didn't have the faith in me that they once did. And so after that show, there was another presentation of the musical, and everyone was asked back but me. So it's one of those where it's like, oh, so they really had no more faith that I could do this role, so they kept it going without me.

Adrienne Walker [00:52:48]:

Yeah, it's a terrible feeling. And with that show in particular, the music was very challenging. So I had spent the month before we even went into the 29 hour reading working on the music, even though my voice wasn't completely healed. I was like, well, I have to dedicate time because this is not simple music. And after the. I think it was the third day where my voice started acting funny. The director called me after rehearsal and said, well, do we need to bring someone else in here to do this? And I thought, no, you don't. But also, do you know how hard this music is? Like, I don't.

Adrienne Walker [00:53:26]:

Okay, good luck finding someone. Like, I just felt like. It felt disrespectful. It felt like that he didn't value what I brought to the table at all. And I've never felt more replaceable, you know? And so, yeah, I had a director

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:53:45]:

do that whenever I was doing a production of Les Mis. And it was the first time I had done it, you know, a regional production. And we had just. So I was playing Anjaras. And so the barricade scene's kind of one of his big ones, where he's, you know, leading the. Leading the troops, so to speak. And, you know, it's our first time doing the scene. I have my book, which is basically the score.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:54:08]:

Trying to follow along, write things down, do this, you know. You know, I'm looking for lines, and, you know, so first time through, we finished that rehearsal, the director pulls me aside. Do we need to have someone, like, go over lines with you, or do you need some special rehearsal? I'm like, well, it's the first day, so maybe let me just get through the first day, and then by the next time we do it, I'll. So, yeah, it's. It's those times where directors really have a lot of power of putting little seeds in our brain that can be great. Seeds that grow big and strong, or seeds that just wilt. And then we have no confidence.

Adrienne Walker [00:54:46]:

Yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting. So I guess the work is within us, right, to take it on because you can't change other people. But I remember that moment. It took me a while to get over that. It was just difficult. It was a really tough time. And I got an inside look into the workshop because someone I know was one of the key players when the production kept going forward and it was just a toxic environment.

Adrienne Walker [00:55:20]:

So I actually really dodged a bullet. And you don't know that at the time, it just feels like, why is this happening to me? This feels so awful. I want these feelings to end. And then you kind of have to see on the other side of it, well, maybe this wasn't for me and that's okay, and I can have peace with that.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:55:39]:

I think that's one of the hardest lessons us actors have to learn, is that a lot of times it isn't personal. It's just what the role requires, what the show needs, A mix of cast that you may be great for a role, but not with this particular person that they do, you know. So there's so many things that go into why we're not cast, and a lot of it isn't us. Certainly we have our own things. We need to be at top of our game, prepared for an audition. But a lot of times there's so many other factors, and that's hard to reconcile with when it's so personal. The emotions that we bring, the song, the voice that we give to our character. It's so personal that when that is said no to, they're saying no to me.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:56:24]:

Not to just a performance or that particular character, they're saying no to me.

Adrienne Walker [00:56:30]:

Absolutely. Because we tie so much of our self worth, or I don't want to speak for everyone, but I have in the past tied a lot of my self worth into my talent, and that's only measured by whether I book something or not. Right. Right. So, yeah, when I was losing my voice In 2019, I was like, I'm not worth anything if I can't sing, then what's the. You know, who am I? You know, that's been my edge. Yeah. My whole career is.

Adrienne Walker [00:56:56]:

Is my voice. And so there's a lot of life lessons in that. And I actually think something like 32 part cut is the remedy for that. Well, I can also help people. It's not just about performing. I can also help. I can provide advice and reassurance and personal experience stories and all of that.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:57:16]:

How has your definition of making it, of succeeding, how has that changed over the years?

Adrienne Walker [00:57:22]:

Oh, that's a good one. I thought that Broadway was making it.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:57:27]:

Yes.

Adrienne Walker [00:57:28]:

So when I booked Nala and I was on my flight back to my tour, I was like, I made it. Oh, my God. And it came out of nowhere, you know, so I was like, wow. You know, and then I moved to New York and I started rehearsals and I was like, this is hard and not as glamorous as I thought it was going to be at all. You know, like this Ripley Greer that they keep having me rehearse in is the ceilings are so low. I feel like when I jump, I'm going to knock my head off. You know, so it just. It was not what I expected at all.

Adrienne Walker [00:58:02]:

And so then I thought, well, when I book my next show or when I book an original Broadway show, then I would have made it. What I have discovered when I really sit down is that I have to learn how to be happy with wherever I am now. Because when I book that one job that I think is going to make me happy or that I think is going to change my life, I still may not be happy. And so. And that is, you know, kind of been the case. So I need to figure out what happiness looks like, what contentment looks. Looks like, and hold true to that no matter what jobs I book or don't book or, you know, whatever my voice is doing. But have I.

Adrienne Walker [00:58:47]:

Do I feel like I've made it? Absolutely not. I don't know if I'll ever feel like I've made it, and I don't know if I want to make it, whatever that means, because I don't know what that means mentally. I don't know what that means. What will happen to my personality when I feel like I've made it, you know? So I think for me, it's just about feeling joyous in whatever I'm doing and feeling fulfilled in it, and that I feel like that's like, ah, I'm doing something I love and someone's paying me for it, or I'm doing something I love and I'm not getting paid at all, but I'm. I'm helping people. So that feels good. But made it. Ooh, I don't know.

Patrick Oliver Jones [00:59:29]:

Well, that is certainly a beautiful place to be when you can find that contentment, and whether you're in a community theater or a Broadway show, and everywhere in between where you can find contentment in each of those different parts of our creative journey.

Adrienne Walker [00:59:44]:

Absolutely. One of my favorite roles was at a community theater. Like, I was in Hammond, Indiana, and I actually paid. I actually came out of pocket to actually do it because. And I love the guys that run the theater. They're awesome. Jeff and Kevin. But they were offering $300 to do the production.

Adrienne Walker [01:00:07]:

And, you know, there's rehearsals all over the place. And then, you know, three weekends of the show. And I wanted to do it because I hadn't done a principal role yet. And I was like, well, it was. They were doing Brooklyn, the Musical, and I was cast as paradise, and I was like, oh, my gosh, she's so fun. I gotta do this. And so I was like, okay, okay. So I took the train out There.

Adrienne Walker [01:00:28]:

And that's when I discovered that the money wasn't going to add up. I was like, ooh, the train, the train. Round trip. I think it was like seven something. And I said, you know, over time, with all the rehearsals you have and everything, it's going to cost me 700 bucks just to go out there.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:00:44]:

Oh, wow.

Adrienne Walker [01:00:44]:

And so they were like, okay, well, don't tell anyone. I mean, it's years. It was years ago now, so I'm telling everybody now. But they were like, don't tell anyone, but we will bump your salary up up to 500. Can you still do it? And I was like, yes, I'll do it, because I wanted to do it. And I had so much fun in that role. Like, you know, with Brooklyn, they're creating. It has this look of them creating their own costumes.

Adrienne Walker [01:01:08]:

So all of the costumes had that look and that feel because they actually were making costumes out of garbage and thrift store dives. And it was so much fun. It was so much fun. And I grew a lot from that experience and at a community theater, not Broadway at all, but it was a lot of fun.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:01:39]:

For the past few seasons, subscribers have gotten early access to episodes as well as the bonus audition stories. Well, as we take this look back at 10 memorable guests, I'm glad to be able to share these audition stories now from guests like Adrienne Walker with the wider why I'll never make it audience, and then top it off with the final five questions, all in one episode. So here is Adrienne talking about the audition for her Broadway debut.

Adrienne Walker [01:02:10]:

So my most memorable audition is. Is actually my Lion King audition, because it was unlikely. It happened in a moment that I wasn't expecting. I was on tour with Dirty Dancing. I got a call from my agent saying, hey, would you like to go in as a replacement for Nala in the Lion King on Broadway? I was like, what? You know, it's like, of course. Yeah, of course. Of course I want to do that. But because I was on tour, I only had a couple of personal days, and the audition was in a couple of rounds.

Adrienne Walker [01:02:38]:

So there was a. I can't remember the month now. It might have been in February of 2016. And then there was another round a couple of weeks later. And I said, well, will they take a tape? Because that's all I can really do with the way that my personal days are set up. So my first audition was a tape. I taped it in the basement of the Pantages. I had my iPhone on a mic stand, and Our music director at the time on tour, Alan, he played for me, and then I had to shoot the scenes in my Airbnb.

Adrienne Walker [01:03:09]:

We hung a white sheet up. A white sheet up with Scotch tape and no lighting. Like, I looked back at this audition table, looked awful, Absolutely awful. I don't know what they saw in me. And one of my colleagues on tour, he read For Simba, and we sent it into Mark Brandon, and then Mark Brandon followed up with my agent and said, hey, I want to chat with her with some notes. And I was like, oh, my gosh. You know, And I'm talking to a New York casting director. And so I chatted with her, chatted with Mark Brandon on the phone, and he gave me some notes about the character and, you know, pump her up a little bit.

Adrienne Walker [01:03:43]:

You know, the stakes. I. My stakes just weren't high enough. He's like, we need to see more stakes. So they called me back in New York and I applied those notes. And for my first audition, I had to fly overnight after the show, and I. And take two flights. I didn't have a direct flight from San Francisco to New York.

Adrienne Walker [01:04:03]:

And I got to the airport, I changed in the airport bathroom, hopped in a taxi, and I got to my audition just 10 minutes before it was supposed to start. They were running late. So I was grateful because I was like, oh, my God, if I'm late to this audition, what will they think of me? So I got in and I sang for them, and then I got some notes about my vibrato. They were like, you know, this is more straight tone. Just seem more straight tone. I was like, okay, okay, cool, cool. So I took those notes, and they were like, we want to see you later this afternoon. Can you come back? I'm like, sure.

Adrienne Walker [01:04:36]:

I'm not doing anything. I'm just in town for this, so I'll be back. And as I was on my way out, Mark Brandon pulled me aside and he asked me about my shoes. So I had worn a pair of character shoes that I brought on tour with me, because that's how I learned the show. I learned my tour show in character shoes. I was a replacement on tour. And so he asked, do I always wear character shoes to my auditions? And I said, well, no, actually, I don't, but I was on tour, and I didn't have the right shoes for this dress, so I wore these. And he was like, well, just so you know, you shouldn't wear character shoes to your auditions.

Adrienne Walker [01:05:13]:

It makes you look green. It makes you look unprofessional. And I was like, thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that bit of advice. I will take that to heart. And he said, now don't go buy some shoes or anything. You're okay.

Adrienne Walker [01:05:27]:

But I just wanted to give you this advice. Well, I had two hours to kill, so I looked up the clothes.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:05:33]:

So what do you do?

Adrienne Walker [01:05:35]:

Yes, I went and bought shoes. And then they're still like my favorite audition shoes to this date because it's a heel, but it's like a nice chunky heel. So I still have the support that I need. And bought this nice pair of nude. My nude pumps and brought those in to the callback. And there was a moment where Mark, Brandon and I shared a look. And I knew that he was like, this girl went and bought some shoes. And I was like, yes, I did.

Adrienne Walker [01:06:00]:

Like, I am not coming back to this Broadway callback without, you know, and look green. I'd rather not. So that second audition was with the same. Like it was with the music director and the resident director as well as Ann Court, one of the co producers on with Disney Theatricals. And after that, they called me back to come in for a movement call the next day. And I was so nervous about this because I'm not a dancer and I had no clue what the movement was. I had seen the Lion King in an Atlanta production on tour maybe 10 years before, and I couldn't remember any of the movement at all. And I thought, oh, my goodness, what can this be? And to be fair, because I come from a classical background.

Adrienne Walker [01:06:52]:

My first ever dance call, I wore men's gym shorts and a T shirt because I had no clue what you're supposed to wear to a dance call. So I don't have a good history of dance calls just to say that. So I walk in. No. So the next day, I'm getting ready for the dance call. I've awakened early. I've warmed up just in case they asked me to sing afterwards. I'm ready.

Adrienne Walker [01:07:15]:

I hop on the train in the wrong direction because I don't know where I'm going. I don't figure it out until at least 15 minutes in. They're calling out stops that I remember I don't remember seeing on the map when I was looking this up. And so I get off the train, and now I'm nervous because I had given myself so much time, but now I've gone in the wrong direction and I still have to wait for the next train. I do make it to the audition, but I'm 10 minutes late and we both know you cannot be 10 minutes late to an audition. But you really. You really can't be 10 minutes late

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:07:47]:

to a movie, not a dance call, because they're already, like, you know, two minutes into the number, and now you got to catch up.

Adrienne Walker [01:07:54]:

Yeah, exactly. And I have no dance experience, right. So I'm freaking out. And I have all my luggage, because after this call, I have to get on a flight and go back on tour. So I get to. I think it was at. Oh, Pearl. The audition was at Pearl.

Adrienne Walker [01:08:13]:

So I go up and I walk into the audition, and thank God, they haven't started yet. They've been waiting on me, which still doesn't feel good. So the dance coordinator, she says, I apologize. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And she gestures to the five other women who are waiting to audition. She says, don't apologize to me. Apologize to these ladies.

Adrienne Walker [01:08:36]:

Oh, my gosh. And I'm like, oh, God, she hates me.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:08:39]:

What am I gonna do?

Adrienne Walker [01:08:40]:

This is awful. You know? And of course, you know, on top of the fear of doing a dance call, just because I'm not a dancer, to include in that. That the choreographer now hates you.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:08:51]:

Yes.

Adrienne Walker [01:08:52]:

Is very difficult. So we get right in there. I don't even know where I set my stuff. I was just like, let's go. I'm ready. And so we start learning this movement break that Nala has in the middle of Shadowland. And it's very high energy. There's jumps, there's sprinting across the floor.

Adrienne Walker [01:09:09]:

I don't know what's happening. She's like, pas de ja. And I'm like, oh, my God. I don't know what that means. And so I made it through that. And there was one moment where she's telling me to reach through the lunge, and especially you. She points at me, and I'm like, oh, my God, this is. This is so intense.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:09:27]:

I never want a choreographer to point me out for any reason. Oh, my gosh, no.

Adrienne Walker [01:09:33]:

So I'm trying to, like, tap into my inner peace, and I'm just thinking to myself, well, I have nothing to lose. You know, I'm here. I'm doing it. You know, who knows? And so I make it past that round, and very quickly, it's just down to me and one other actress. And they have us start working with Balinese and Javanese movement and balance exercises across the floor, and then they bring in a Nala mask head. And now I'm freaking out because we're about to put on this mask head. And practice movement with this mask head. And of course, here's now the hair conundrum, because my hair is out.

Adrienne Walker [01:10:12]:

And I'm like, oh, my God, how am I going to put this mask on and my hair is out? But I figured it, it out very quickly. I figured it out. And that was the end of the audition. I think we worked with the movement for another hour and then I thanked them because I actually had a good time in spite of my terror with the movement call and my fear of the dance coordinator. But, yeah, then I hopped on the train, made it to the airport really, really late, almost missed my flight. And by the time I got to the airport check in, I had a voicemail from my agent saying that I had booked it and to call them back.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:10:52]:

Crazy, crazy, crazy. Oh, my. And what I love about your story is that along the way you made so many quote unquote mistakes. There were things that you did that weren't the best that seemed, you know, you, you know, from your shoes to, you know, to showing up late, you know, all these different things along the way. Even your first audition, what casting director calls you back and says, you know what? That was not great. Do this. Here's some notes. Try it again.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:11:25]:

What casting director does that? I can count on my hand, maybe one finger. The time that a casting director has said, you need to do that again, and here's how you need to improve it. I mean, normally, again, you just hear nothing and then you move on with your day. So all along the way, it just seemed like, like for one reason or another, no matter what you did or didn't do, this was meant to be for you.

Adrienne Walker [01:11:51]:

It does feel like that. It does feel like that. And I'm grateful for it all because it taught me so much, because it wasn't. I didn't do everything right. Even though I was trying to. I didn't do everything right and I got called out for it, which is great because I knew where the missing pieces were, least some of the missing pieces. There could have been a lot of other things I did wrong and they didn't even bother saying anything to me. But it is powerful to believe that, you know, what is for you is for you, and just stay the course and see what happens.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:12:25]:

I've been in for Lion King once. Like one of my bucket list roles is to do Scar. I just love, love that character. And because I've played Jafar before and I think they're very similar type characters, but Scar has a bit more because Jafar is almost Buffoonish in a lot of ways, as evil as he is. But Scar is just, he's just nasty and he has like a subtlety that I like about it. But anyway, so I've gotten to audition for it once and it was just me and Mark in the room. And it was very interesting because at the same time, right around the same time, I was auditioning for Dear Evan Hansen, so they were within a month or two of each other. And it was interesting.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:13:08]:

Dear Evan Hansen, which is a more contemporary show, I thought I could bring a bit more of myself into that role, but they really needed me to fit into a certain groove. This is how you do it. This is how you sing was very rigid. Whereas Lion King, I thought, this has been around for 20 years. I need to do it a certain way. This is how I need to sing it. I watched all the tapes I people who done and I was like, this is how I need to do it. Yet I get in there, he's like, you need to loosen up.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:13:38]:

Like, like what you're, you're play acting, but I need you to really be. It's like, oh, okay. So I need. So it's, it's, it was an interesting way to, to think about these auditions where you have a certain thing in your mind. Then you get in the room, it's like, oh, it's the exact opposite, actually.

Adrienne Walker [01:13:57]:

Yeah, that does happen. And it's especially when it's when you've been rehearsing it and you've got it down. That's the hardest time to pivot. That's the hardest time for me to take direction is because I'm like so gelled into what I thought they wanted that I don't. I'm like, oh my God, you know, my mind is blowing up. But when I was reading a little bit for auditions, especially for the Lion King and then also Wicked, what I discovered is sometimes these long running shows really want to see how you are and how you can become the character. And they're a little more interested in you and your nuances rather than how you might be like Glinda or the Glinda they've seen before. And I thought that was really cool.

Adrienne Walker [01:14:45]:

But I went in for Hamilton a few times and I thought it was very rigid and especially vocally what they wanted. And, and I got kind of close. But I think what I discovered was that when it's that big new show that works and that model works, they don't want to mess with it.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:15:06]:

They don't want to touch It.

Adrienne Walker [01:15:07]:

Yeah, they don't want to touch it. Yeah. But then when it's these longstanding shows and they have a little wiggle room and just the name of the show sells, they can. And they have more time with replacing people and bringing people in. It just seems like they're a little more grateful for people's differences and nuances than I felt when I went in for other new shows. That.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:15:35]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I certainly hope that Mark will bring me in again. I mean. Cause the thing is, Scara doesn't leave very often. I know that that's been a role that's like, whoever gets it, they stick with it for a long time.

Adrienne Walker [01:15:48]:

Oh, yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:15:49]:

So the fact that there was an opening, I was like, oh, this could be my shot. So of course, you know, then I put the pressure on. But. But yeah, hopefully, who knows, maybe once it comes back, that guy or one of the understudies needs to move on. Who knows? Who knows?

Adrienne Walker [01:16:07]:

Yeah. And then that'll be your shot.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:16:08]:

Exactly.

Adrienne Walker [01:16:09]:

Scar is fun. If I could play any character other than Nala, it would be Scar in a heartbeat.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:16:13]:

Yeah, yeah. Scar is. He's just delicious is what it. I think that's the best word to describe it. Yeah. I always enjoy playing the bad guy because I remember when I did Gaston again, a lot of Disney stuff in my past, but when I did Gaston and I was pushed out the window and I died. APPLAUSE. I was like, yes, I did it.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:16:36]:

I did it. When people are happy to see me go. And those kind of characters, I know I've done my job. So, yeah. So hopefully, fingers crossed, Scar will come back for me, I guess.

Adrienne Walker [01:16:47]:

Yeah, I hope so for you too.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:16:57]:

So, final five questions. Number one, if you could have any other job outside of the arts, what would it be?

Adrienne Walker [01:17:04]:

Ooh, this one's difficult for me because I am so very happy performing, which my childhood self would be terrified at what I do now because I was a really shy kid. But when I was a kid, I really wanted to be a veterinarian. I have a huge love for animals, and so if I could start over and go to school and do all of that, then I would go that course. But if I had to start right now, I think it might be a little too difficult to go to medical school and do all of that.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:17:36]:

Yeah, very true. Are there particular animals that you gravitate more toward?

Adrienne Walker [01:17:40]:

I love anything furry, really. I'm a little afraid of cats, but I think I can work through. I think it's just my. Because I didn't grow up with cats and my fear of their temperament sometimes. But I love dogs I get along with. I haven't met a dog I'm afraid of or haven't gotten along with ever. Even I had a pit bull jump on me muzzled, and I was like, oh, it's okay. You know, like, so definitely dogs.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:18:04]:

No, I, I, I'm the same way. I grew up with dogs my whole life, and so cats, every time I feel like when I go to pet a cat, they're going to swipe at me. That's just my assumption.

Adrienne Walker [01:18:13]:

Yes, same.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:18:16]:

So, number two, what is a bucket list role or show that you hope to be in one day?

Adrienne Walker [01:18:20]:

Oh, I love this question because it's a little off the beaten path, but I really want to do an animation. Like, I want to be the voice of an animated character. And I've gotten a chance to do it once for a grad student, but the voice that he chose, that he settled on for me was very gravelly and very difficult to sustain. So if I got another chance to do an animated voice, I just want to do something that feels good and that's exciting. I just love everything about creating a character and making them sound, you know, believable and emotional and fully, fully realized.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:19:01]:

So, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a whole other gift to incorporate everything that we do as actors and singers into a microphone. You know, there's no visual, there's no body language. Nothing else can help us. It's all in the voice. And that's a unique skill to be able to put everything, all of our emotions and character into a voice.

Adrienne Walker [01:19:23]:

Absolutely.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:19:25]:

Number three, who do you look up to as a mentor or someone that inspires you?

Adrienne Walker [01:19:31]:

I am inspired by so many people, so many women, really, because when I look up to folks, I look towards folks that look like me or kind of have a similar trajectory or something like that. And for me, I truly admire Audra McDonald. I know I feel like every woman probably says that, but what I admire so much about her is that she is so strong in her convictions and unafraid to voice them them. And that's something that I'm getting better at, but it hasn't been my, my go to in my life. And so I always admire women who use their voice and are not afraid to use their voice and that sound intelligent when they use their voice and all of those things. So definitely Audra McDonald. And also that, you know, because she comes from a classical background as well, I can identify with that. And I just appreciate her grasp of it all and how she's made it work for her.

Adrienne Walker [01:20:35]:

And I admire her so much.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:20:38]:

Number four, what is a personal lesson that took you a while to learn or maybe one that you're still working on to this day?

Adrienne Walker [01:20:46]:

I think for me, that I'm still working on is just accepting that what I have to offer is enough. And if it doesn't match what someone wants, no matter what, if it's booking a job or just in life, you know, friendships, or meshing with different groups of people, then that's more helpful than harmful. If it doesn't mesh naturally, that's good for both of us. It means that we're not pretending or fighting for something that shouldn't naturally be happening. And so for me, I still struggle with just accepting that I'm enough, that I'm interesting enough, just how I am, that I'm kind enough, or I could probably work on kindness. I think we all could work on kindness, but that I'm enough wherever I sit, wherever I stand, and as long as I'm seeking to be the best version of myself, even on my bad days, that that's enough. And for those who take me, great. And for those who leave me, great.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:21:45]:

And that connection that you speak about is just as important with the show we were talking about. Sometimes you connect with a show and it's right for you, and other times, as good as you may be, as always a performer, it's just not a connection. And so that show is not for you. And it's a matter of maintaining and realizing that we are still good enough. As you say, we are still talented enough. But we'll find. We'll find that fit in the next audition.

Adrienne Walker [01:22:12]:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:22:13]:

Yeah. So number five, what is the most useful advice that you have received for

Adrienne Walker [01:22:20]:

me, and this is career based, actually. But a couple of years ago, I was getting ready for an audition and I went over to my colleague Elle, Steven Taylor, who plays Mufasa because he does a lot of TV and film. And I was asking him some advice on going in, going in for a casting director rather than a self tape. Because at that point I hadn't done a lot of in person auditions. Most of my auditions had been self tapes. And I was nervous and he was like, look, Adrian, you got this. You just really need to focus on. On being in the moment and making this like a miniature performance and not so much an evaluation or waiting for feedback or anything like that to just enjoy the work.

Adrienne Walker [01:23:06]:

Just enjoy that you get to do this audition and let that be enough. And not waiting to hear back or waiting for the booking to just enjoy the craft. And I thought that was really good advice because there's going to be so many auditions and if I can just enjoy the process of auditioning, then that should be enough. And I may not need to be fulfilled with booking it because look, you know, there's so hundreds of auditions. You might book three, you know, so.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:23:36]:

Right, exactly.

Adrienne Walker [01:23:37]:

You gotta enjoy at least some of it. Right.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:23:40]:

Were you able to use that advice for that audition that you asked him about?

Adrienne Walker [01:23:45]:

Ooh, for that particular one, I don't think I was. I think I was still in my head. I did get a chance to go in person a few more times around that time and it felt better and easier. And especially when the role felt good, like, especially when I was like, oh yeah, I could see myself playing this detective or you know, I could see myself playing this. Yeah. Then it felt good and I got into character and I walked in and it felt good and I could leave it there. There was still a little twinge of, well, it felt good and I thought it did the job. Why didn't I hear back? You know, there's still a little bit of that left over, but that's.

Adrienne Walker [01:24:23]:

That even that is going away, doing a lot of self takes at home now and sending them off and being proud of what I'm sending off, it's somehow helping. That anxiety that I. That post audition anxiety that I usually get,

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:24:40]:

as much as you and I may long to be on the Broadway stage, it's all about realizing that joy and even contentment can be found no matter where we are, no matter what job or show we're doing. And it is that kind of mindset that will not only get us through the tough times where things aren't going quite the way we want them to, it will also give us a greater appreciation for the those wonderful moments of artistic fulfillment. And if you'd like to find more fulfillment than frustration, maybe it's time for a tune up, a fresh look at your monologues or songs or even your self tape process. Whether you're looking to work on the artistic or the business side of your career, I'd be happy to help you in any way I can at any point along your creative journey with some support as well as concrete steps to bring more ease and confidence to your performance. You can reach out to me for coaching or consultations at why I'll never make it dot com. Thank you so much for joining me and Adrian this week. If you've got something out of this episode that means something to you, I would greatly appreciate it if you would share this podcast with someone who you think could benefit from this conversation. Conversation.

Patrick Oliver Jones [01:26:00]:

Well, that about does it. For this episode, I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones, in charge of writing, editing and producing this podcast. Background music is from John Bartman and the theme song that was created by me. Be sure to join me next time as we talk more about why I'm never make it.