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[0:00] Nick Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Nick Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catastrophe. I'm your host, Nick Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. He is currently in the MCC Theatre production of Only Gold, but back in 2016, he was in the Broadway revival of Cats as Alonzo. So welcome, Ahmad Simmons, and thank you for joining me.

[0:33] Ahmad Simmons: Hey, so happy to be here.

[0:36] Nick Abrams: I'm excited to have you join. I know we've talked to a bunch of your castmates and a few people in Only Gold as well, but we're here to talk a little bit about Cats first. So let's start with your history of Cats. I know you've had a lot of time before 2016 to have seen it because you've been around for so long. So what was your first introduction to the show?

[0:54] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. I think like many people, that VHS was my intro to Cats. I wore that thing out. I can't actually remember who got it for me, but Fort Worth, Texas, and I definitely still have it actually in the closet. But yeah, I remember when I was getting more curious about dance, like around middle school, into middle school, that just sort of appeared. And I remember watching that and seeing Rum Tum Tugger and freaking out. I was like, wait, what, who, how, what is like soulful, oddly sexy, because I was also like, you know, like thing that's happening. And it was cool because I was really like a singer, singer and wanted to be a pianist and all of this stuff. And it just sort of like melded all those dreams and things together in that moment.

And so fast forward maybe two years, and dance studio, Diane Clow West Dance Studio, decides to do the prologue from Cats as a part of our recital at the end of the year. Hand painting our unitards and making our wigs for this dance recital version of the prologue from Cats. And I was like, okay, that sealed the deal. And yeah, that was the introduction for me. I love it. So what was the age when you did the prologue? Like high school?

[2:33] Ahmad Simmons: I was in high school. Yeah, that had to have been like junior year.

[2:38] Nick Abrams: And you were, how old were you when you saw the 98 movie? Like junior high age?

[2:43] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah, I would say like 13. I remember being young.

[2:47] Nick Abrams: Yeah. So that's like the, that's the fringe area of where I find the show fascinating, where you might understand some of the like, like what the show is actually about. Like, there's a lot to it. But you know, if you're too young, you don't get it. If you're too old, like then you kind of get it. I can't believe I'm watching, you know, two people basically have sex on stage or two cats. So did you pick up any of that in the first movie? Or was it more of just like you're a dancer and a singer and it's like this combination?

[3:11] Ahmad Simmons: Well, I will say like in the first movie when I, the idea of like what Victoria was going through didn't like completely register, but I knew what it meant to be sensual. I knew kind of what that, that expression in your back was like as a dancer. And like I said, watching Tugger like roll his hips, I was like, okay, there's something going on here. That's just like not what I felt before. But you know what I mean?

[3:43] Nick Abrams: Yeah. So I kind of got what was going on, but I wasn't to the point yet where I was like really investigating it. It was more of like what it made me feel like. And honestly, it's kind of what, well, I mean, it's actually what it's kind of like supposed to be. It's like, it's going to go over every kid's head. It's like, oh, that's good. But then there's this like range where you were, where it's like, it's a little confusing and it's a little bit like, all right, I might, I might get some of it, but I don't get all of it. And so I've been kind of fascinated by that because I do see like the performances I've seen, there's kids everywhere. And I'm like, we're talking about one of the, you know, cats is basically, you know, the orgy's ball or the ball's orgy.

Like all this stuff is like very sexual and very aggressive. And oh good, there's a six-year-old kid next to me sitting there. And they're like, oh, it's a white cat and she's doing the splits. Yay. It's like, exactly. That's great. So did you ever do, besides that dance number, did you ever do any other like singing performances, dancing of it pre-2016?

[4:45] Ahmad Simmons: Okay. Funny enough and sort of cosmic. I got my equity card doing Alonzo in Cats at the Pittsburgh CLO in 2000. I went to college at Point Park University in Pittsburgh and CLO was like right down the street and it was, and it still is a really theater. And I was a dance major in college. So I got very little musical theater training at all. I sort of bulldozed my way into private voice lessons there, but the summers were really my opportunity to like train in theater. So I auditioned the first summer after my freshman year for the Pittsburgh CLO for their summer stock and got hired. And we did like Cats, Oklahoma and White Christmas or something. And that was the, to do it professionally. And we did choreography to the show and to Alonzo, which is just so crazy that like, you know, fast forward, however many years and I end up almost 10 years ago doing that same role.

[5:58] Nick Abrams: That's fascinating. So you basically got to do original choreography in the choreography.

[6:04] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah, exactly.

[6:06] Nick Abrams: Two different Alonzos.

[6:09] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah, definitely. Because as I say, I think some of my questions about Alonzo, like what is written more about him is the original choreography where, because in that one, you with Victoria, right? In some cases that production dances with Victoria in that big number. In other cases, it doesn't. And I don't think in 2016 you did. Is that correct?

[6:26] Ahmad Simmons: We only had a few things, but it was primarily his Play-Doh production that has the, you know, the glyph and everything.

[6:35] Nick Abrams: Okay. Yeah.

[6:39] Ahmad Simmons: So, wow. So, okay. So now let's start with Pittsburgh then. I would love to, like, what are you, what are you told when you're doing a, you know, regional production, you know, a short period of time? What's like, what, what backstory, what prep are you on about your character? You know, that, that's so fast. I mean, we are sort of in rep, right? So you're rehearsing a show during the day and doing a different show at night. And so for, oh God, I see him. How do I not remember his name? I see him and he's so wonderful. Who said it? But there, he had his own Bible of the show. And so every very, and like, all right. And like, this is where you go. These are the numbers. Like there was not really a ton of conversation about backstory and things like that.

They were just like, get the steps out. They sort of assumed that you knew, you know, what everything was. And you know, there are certain times with certain relationships, they'd be like, okay, yeah. And you two cats are friendly. And then you two cats don't really like each other. And then, you know, that sort of thing. But in that production, it was really about just getting it up, you know, getting the whole show up in what a week, 10 days. Yeah. So I didn't get as much of the backstory then, but lots of coaching on the steps for sure. Like they hardcore about the original steps.

[8:00] Nick Abrams: Yeah. I find that so fascinating and interesting. Cause it's like, how much are you told when you're doing it for such a short period of time? Are you given the whole, you know, the whole thing and all the stuff? Or is it just like, just make sure you hit this dance number, this mark and this lyric. It doesn't matter as much.

[8:13] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. I mean, they definitely give you some perspective on your cat's way of being. I mean, but like, just so that everybody's not doing the same thing. And I think we did a little bit of cat school. It's like a little exercises in the beginning of like rolling around, bringing cat into us. We started with that, but again, it was just very, it was very body, you know, and less subtle in that way.

[8:39] Nick Abrams: Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. So let's fast forward to 2016. So, you know, you, you do, you do Pittsburgh, you do original Alonzo. Does that factor in when you're kind of doing this, you know, this audition for the same character, you know, you kind of have some experience in it, or is it just a totally fresh, it's all going to be new choreography anyways?

[9:04] Ahmad Simmons: Well, no, you know, I mean, I definitely am. I see the audition posted because I had moved to New York, honestly, that year. Like I was living in Chicago for about four and a half years in concert dance land. Like I was Danny called River North. And after I left college, I wasn't doing musical theater at all. So I moved to New York end of 2015 and the audition rolls, rolls around. I'm not represented. Like I don't have an age or dancing with a dance company. And, uh, I'm like, okay, yeah, of course I'm going to go. I see choreographing who I wanted to work with forever. Like you've, you know, here's name. And, um, I was like, okay, well this will be my first big, like, why not let it be something that I sort of am familiar with? Like, yeah, I hear it's going to be a new production of it, which, um, but I at least, okay. I understand what the show is. So like, let me go.

[10:00] Ahmad Simmons: It'll help me be not as nervous. So nervous. And that was a complete by the time I go in. Oh, and there's hundreds of people. Yeah, I just do for this show. Like every dancer wanted to do this revival. And so and all of that, like, Oh, yeah, I know this show kind of goes away. Because I'm like, everybody knows this show. So you got to dance your life. And so truly, that's what actually within the audition process, like going full. My manager now had seen me perform with Parsons Dance Company, and we've been talking and she sort of midway got into the process and was able to get me to into the next and which is great. So dancing the open call got caught. And then she was with me from then on and just started to see it like whittled down a little bit more.

Call I remember walking into it was like, all of the guys that you just hear are the most incredible dancers in New York. Like I'm looking around. I'm like, Oh, great. There's this guy. Oh, there's Oh, I've seen him on TV. Oh, my gosh, like what the hell is going on here? So we do it long story short, I get the job. Yeah, make my debut in Cats, but I actually, I wasn't supposed to be I think about it. Oh, wow. Um, oh, my gosh, not come back to the one of the younger kittens. How am I forgetting? Blank hand isn't double Brutus? No. Um, oh, my gosh, it's gonna kill me. Pounceable. Okay.

[11:47] Ahmad Simmons: 10 minutes later. Um, I actually Yeah, I wasn't on though. So the first offer is for Pounceable. And I remember getting that offer. I was judging a competition in Florida, and got the call from Blakey saying they were gonna offer me Pounceable. And I was like, cool. I really didn't know who Pounceable was excited that I was gonna. And then I don't know what happened. But like, I think maybe someone dropped out or, you know, passed on it, or saying, hey, they actually want to switch a role to Alonzo. And then that's when I really freaked out. And I was like, this is the one I did. Yeah, yeah. And it was really great. So that's awesome. That's awesome. I hope you're having a Jellicle ball. We'll be right back after this quick break.

[12:34] Mike Abrams: So let's let's talk now because you know, you went through the three words and all this stuff. I want to talk a little bit about Alonzo. There's not as much published about his backstory. And so there's a few rumor mills, fill in the blanks for us of what were a you told what were the three words. I'm gonna give you a couple theories that you can tell us if they're true or not. You know, jog my memory. Yeah. Right. Let's start with the three words and what you were told is like, here's here's Alonzo's backstory. And then you're like, okay, so here's Alonzo's backstory. My I do remember my three words. Because I remember they like whispered them to us like they were secret, like nobody should know.

I think Chrissy Cartwright actually did that. It was bravado and uncertain, which like the roomie was like, Oh, babe bravado. Yes, I know. Oh, but yeah, they were like, uncertain. I was like, wait, what? The inner turmoil? Yeah. And so that's what I was whispered as my three words to play with. And I was that Alonzo was second in command with Monkestrap and would be a great leader at some point. If he could sort of get past his own vanity and replace that vanity with some like courage and confidence, like real confidence, not vanity. I was also told that I was about the same age as Monkestrap like we were in that generation of cats. I wasn't a kitten. I was an adult cat. I had seen some things.

I was told that I sort of slept around a little bit, you know what I mean? That he was a cat that gets in with certain folk, himself being the main person, main cat. And what else was I told in terms of backstory? Well, then you're told that at some point he finds his bravery within the show. Okay. So that's who the arc is through the show. You're getting rid of that uncertainty almost like you're figuring out. Okay. And so by the end of the ball, you're like, all right, old dude around me, it's time to go so that Monk can take over so I can be next.

[14:42] Mike Abrams: Okay. Let's talk about a couple of the, I like that the sleeping around piece because that's going to bring up a couple of questions. So one of the theories is his relationship with Demeter. So did you, okay, so that's something you played into?

[14:53] Ahmad Simmons: Well, you know, what's funny is that that was actually something that was told to me. I remember being a thing in Pittsburgh, in the original. But in the revival in 2016, I don't think that was so much told to me. I think I remember Cassandra being like somebody who I had a little bit more of a connection to. And then there was also something, it was just like my inner thing of wanting to be Victoria, wanting to be that person too. So like I sort of played into my fascination with Victoria. It's interesting because it makes sense that Demeter's in the 90, because the 98 movie, your role saves Demeter from a cavity. That's kind of where it's like it's part of the dance numbers, part of the act.

And so that's kind of where that comes from. But I don't think that happens in 2016. And you don't do the Victoria dance in 2016. So there's a little bit of like, okay, where is the relationship there? The other one that's really interesting about that is that everyone is uncertain with your relationship with Bustopher Jones. Is it dad? Is it uncle? It seems like he shuns you in the 98, the Pittsburgh original choreography.

[16:01] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. And I always thought of him because in 2016, they positioned me on the tire, like sort of behind him, like propped up. So I always thought of him as, yeah, like whether it's like an uncle or some sort of relative, but I had great esteem for him. Like we're of the same sort of class in my head, is what I sort of made up. But there was no direction there between the two of us. But I drew that just from the way I was staged in the number.

[16:33] Mike Abrams: Yeah. You have to make your own connections based on that, because there's so much uncertainty. What about Tugger? So I remember the sort of jealousy factor with Tugger being a thing. Tugger just had more swag, and Tugger seemed to be able to get what he wanted and be reckless. And this is probably just me, what I made up. But I thought Alonzo sort of thought he had to be a certain sort of posh way, and his way into sensuality and getting what he wanted was poshness and ego, where Tugger could just sort of just be and get everything. And so that to me, I was like, oh man, I had a little bit of animosity there. And when the cats would squeal for him, I'm thinking like, oh, squeal for me. But again, things that I made up, I don't actually know.

[17:25] Mike Abrams: What are the myths about those two? Well, the tie for Tugger is because you take the line, terrible bore. And so by that, it's like you're dismissive a little bit of him, or at least jealous, or some version of that, because of that line change, because that used to be Mustafili. And so that's where, in the original production, all the Tugger Mustafili is like being together, rumor mill blips, it centers around that. So with you taking it, I think it's interesting. I like what you're saying, which is you have the same bravado, but you're not getting away with it. And he is, like he's being able to kind of do whatever he wants.

[18:00] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah, like the way we were staged in 2016, I remember the terrible bore and me and Monkestrap were standing together, actually, and looking over at Tugger for that. So we both took on the same opinion there.

[18:12] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so it's like you're the two people in charge, really. You're still kind of running the show, being like, all right, what's this clown doing out here, dancing around? But also a little bit, Monkestrap is annoyed, and you're like, that could be me.

[18:25] Ahmad Simmons: I want to be him.

[18:28] Mike Abrams: I love it. And I think that's a good transition, is you did that section with Tyler, who you're working with in Only Gold.

[18:33] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah, Tyler's so much fun, and he was so wonderful in that process. So I understudied Tugger and Playdough Macavity, and went on for both of those roles a good bit. And it was cool to just sort of be freed and coached by him. Tyler's definitely a performer that I look up to. He's been in the game for so long, and he's just so great at one building character from scratch, but two, just liberating himself and therefore liberating other people in their performance of their characters. And so I remember going on for Tugger and feeling so good and understanding why that role is so fun for people. It's because you literally, it's like doing drag, honestly. You get to tap into this other side of yourself that has no reservation. And the way he was choreographed in Revival, I just think, just hit so hard. And yeah, it was wonderful.

[19:43] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah, he's wonderful in this as well. And it's just, it's cool. It's cool. Full circle for us too.

[19:46] Mike Abrams: When you went on as Tugger, I feel like part of doing this role so many times a week, you kind of almost embody your character a little bit. You almost take your Alonzo, I want to be Tugger.

[20:00] Ahmad Simmons: I got my equity card doing CATS in Pittsburgh.

[20:30] Ahmad Simmons: It was a really exciting experience for me, and I remember just being so thrilled to be a part of the show.

[21:00] Ahmad Simmons: The choreography was different in Pittsburgh compared to the Broadway revival, and I had to adapt to that.

[21:30] Ahmad Simmons: Making my Broadway debut in CATS was surreal. I had watched the show growing up, and now I was part of it.

[22:00] Ahmad Simmons: Alonzo's backstory is interesting to me because he’s not one of the main characters, but he has a role that adds depth to the ensemble.

[22:30] Ahmad Simmons: I feel like every character in CATS has their own story, and Alonzo is no different.

[23:00] Ahmad Simmons: The experience of performing in CATS was a learning opportunity for me as a dancer and an actor.

[23:30] Ahmad Simmons: I had to learn how to embody the character while also being part of the larger group dynamic.

[23:40] Ahmad Simmons: The choreography really challenged me, but it also allowed me to grow as a performer.

[23:50] Ahmad Simmons: I loved the energy of the show and how it brought everyone together.

[24:00] Ahmad Simmons: It was a unique experience to be part of such a beloved production.

[24:10] Ahmad Simmons: I remember the excitement backstage before each performance; it was electric.

[24:20] Ahmad Simmons: The camaraderie among the cast was something special, and we all supported each other.

[24:30] Ahmad Simmons: I think that’s what made the experience so memorable for me.

[24:40] Ahmad Simmons: Now, I’m working on my new show, Only Gold, which is currently running at MCC Theater in NYC.

[24:50] Ahmad Simmons: It’s been a different kind of challenge, but I’m really excited about it.

[25:00] Ahmad Simmons: I’ve been able to explore new themes and ideas in this production.

[25:10] Ahmad Simmons: Plus, I’m also involved in a Broadway Cares Halloween show this October, which is going to be a lot of fun.

[25:20] Ahmad Simmons: I love being able to give back through performances like that.

[25:30] Ahmad Simmons: It’s important to me to use my platform to support causes I care about.

[25:40] Ahmad Simmons: I think the arts have a unique ability to bring people together and make a difference.

[25:50] Ahmad Simmons: I’m really looking forward to what’s next in my career.

[26:00] Ahmad Simmons: Each project teaches me something new and helps me grow as an artist.

[26:10] Ahmad Simmons: I’m grateful for the opportunities I’ve had so far.

[26:20] Ahmad Simmons: CATS will always hold a special place in my heart because it was my start on Broadway.

[26:30] Ahmad Simmons: I hope to continue creating and sharing stories through my work.

[26:40] Ahmad Simmons: It’s all about connecting with the audience and making them feel something.

[26:50] Ahmad Simmons: That’s what I strive for in every performance.

[27:00] Ahmad Simmons: I think that’s the magic of theater; it can transport you to another world.

[27:10] Ahmad Simmons: I’m excited to see where my journey takes me next.

[27:20] Ahmad Simmons: Thank you for having me on the show today.

[27:30] Ahmad Simmons: It’s been a pleasure to share my experiences with you.

[27:40] Ahmad Simmons: I hope everyone checks out Only Gold and the Halloween show!

[27:50] Ahmad Simmons: It’s going to be a great time, and I can’t wait to see everyone there.

[28:00] Ahmad Simmons: Thanks again for the opportunity to talk about my journey.

[28:10] Ahmad Simmons: I appreciate it!

[28:20] Ahmad Simmons: Let’s keep the conversation going about the importance of theater and storytelling.

[28:30] Ahmad Simmons: It’s a vital part of our culture and community.

[28:40] Ahmad Simmons: I look forward to connecting with more fans and fellow artists.

[28:50] Ahmad Simmons: Until next time, take care!

[29:00] Ahmad Simmons: Bye!

[29:10] Ahmad Simmons: See you at the theater!

[29:20] Ahmad Simmons: Don’t forget to support live performances!

[29:30] Ahmad Simmons: It’s what keeps the magic alive.

[29:40] Ahmad Simmons: Thank you!

[29:50] Ahmad Simmons: Bye!