This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Cats Astrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have a very exciting guest. I have been a big fan of this person's content for a very long time and then loved what they put together for the Joke-A-Ball. You might know him as Kermit MaFrog, but the man behind the puppet is Brett Evans. So welcome, Brett, and thank you for joining me.

[0:33] Brett Evans: Thank you so much for having me. I've never been on a podcast. So excited. This is really exciting.

[0:40] Mike Abrams: I'm excited to have you be the first, be your first podcast. Because I, there was a stretch, like we'll get into all these different things, but I love what you put together. There's, you know, it's obviously really fun. There's the sports angle, but there's also theater. It's incredibly entertaining on all the platforms. I see them all the time. I love them. I watch them and I want to get into your content creation and how you kind of ended up in this world. But what really to me is your videos for the Joke-A-Ball were unbelievable. And, you know, obviously that show ended way too fast. And I love that you were able to highlight the performers and the people. So before we get into that too, though, we got to start at the beginning though. You are a Cats fan. So when did your Cats fandom start?

[1:23] Brett Evans: Okay. So that's such an interesting question. When I was in high school, our theater teacher would always threaten us with Cats. So for, yeah, I mean, like he would be like, oh, we're going to do Cats this year. If you're bad, we're going to do Cats. And like, so in my brain, I always thought that Cats was like a punishment. And so what got me into Cats and made me fall in love with it was there was one year that me and my friend, we were doing, we were joining a theater company and the theater company was doing Les Mis for Cats. So you had to choose between one or the other. And she was desperate to do Cats. And I was absolutely against it because I thought it was a punishment. So we ended up doing Les Mis.

But because it was like basically in rep, the two shows, we all had to go see Cats and I fell in love with it. It is so weird. It's such a bizarre show that I think what I love so much about theater in general is if without the idea of like what Cats became, where everyone's in the leotard and the face paint, if we went back to 1987 and gave 10 different directors the script, we would have gotten 10 different shows. And that's what makes, right? That's what makes Cats so spectacular. And I think it's why the Jellicle Ball specifically is so special, right? Because that's what ended up happening. You gave the material to two brilliant directors and they created and molded this world of ball. I just thought, I just think Cats is a special show. Shout out Brian Stalter. I think he was the director of that first Cats that I saw. But after that, I was in it. I was in Cats. I loved it.

[3:15] Mike Abrams: How old were you for that first one?

[3:17] Brett Evans: The first time I saw Cats, I think I must have been like 20, 21.

[3:22] Mike Abrams: That was the production is when you were doing between Les Mis and Cats was 20 years old. Okay. So this is not like really young. So the punishment was like, as a child growing up, this is like, that's the threat. And then you saw it as a out of school adult. Okay, that makes sense. Because you probably had a very similar reaction to me, which was, I saw it in 2016 as like, you know, when it was the revival, the revival.

[3:47] Brett Evans: Okay.

[3:48] Mike Abrams: Much. I mean, very later in my life, like I never saw a production as a kid. I never really, I knew the punchlines. I knew the jokes and that's a different experience of like, you're seeing this. It's weird. You can kind of like, you can appreciate the artistry. You can appreciate what was put together, but the, the like clear storytelling isn't quite there. The first time you watch it, I firmly believe it's there in general. But if you're seeing it for the first time, you're probably not picking it up right away.

[4:16] Brett Evans: Don't you find also that Cats is in the, what Cats is in the eye of the beholder. Like we're all getting something different from this abstract piece of art, right?

[4:26] Mike Abrams: Completely.

[4:27] Brett Evans: Especially in those first productions. Like I ended, I've watched the video, the, when did they film that?

[4:33] Mike Abrams: 1998 movie.

[4:34] Brett Evans: Okay. So the 1998 movie, I've now watched it. I saw that 2016 Broadway production, and now I see it as much as I possibly can. And you get something different every single time because, I mean, I've, I've listened to this podcast forever. You have such a different take than everybody else too. Like, it's awesome. I like that there's conversation in the show. Built in.

[4:56] Mike Abrams: It reminds me of like, it's a world. Like it was, I compared it a lot to like Harry Potter or some of these other, like the Lord of the Rings where there's, this world's been built and there's a lot of places you can live in this world. And where to me that the show is brilliant, either intentional or by accident. I think a lot of this sometimes it's by accident when you hear like how this show became, but, but there's always a cat that could relate to everybody. And that is when you go watch, like a lot of times when I watch now, I'm watching one performer when they're not the focal point because I'm curious to see how they're doing.

[5:31] Brett Evans: Oh yeah. Big time. It's why the Jellicle ball was perfect because you had to see it. How many people were in that cast? Eight, 20?

[5:42] Mike Abrams: More than that, I think. Yeah. I mean, there's a huge cast. You had to see it that many times so that you could follow each track because what each of them were doing the entire time, because they're never leaving stage was so effing brilliant. I mean, yeah, I could, clearly I could talk about the Jellicle ball forever. Like that production is completely where you're sitting matters too, because I was one time on stage and I was sitting next to Sydney for the Tugger and I turned over and all of a sudden he's just lifting weights. He's just literally like bent, but curling and I, like a dumbbell. And I'm like, is he just doing this over here? Yeah. He's like, yep. I'm in my little Tugger zone over here. And could you not see it from other places that you had watched?

[6:22] Brett Evans: Yeah, right.

[6:23] Mike Abrams: There's no chance you're going to notice that when you're sitting on, you know, in the normal orchestra seats or up in the balcony. And I love that part of it is you had the characters interacting with you depending on where you were. So obviously you became a big fan of Jellicle ball. What started you to do that series of videos?

[6:41] Brett Evans: That goes back about 10 years ago. I decided to stop pursuing theater as a main career. And my therapist at the time told me that in order to keep my artistic integrity, I should find something new to do on a day to day basis because I theater was such a huge part of my life. So what we landed on was that I was going to write a poem a day. So I've been writing a poem a day for about 10 years. It, I feel that sometimes my mouth moves faster than my brain. So it's easier to get out my thought on paper as opposed to speaking. It's probably why this might be my first and last podcast ever. But, uh, yeah, that, that really, so I've been writing, that was like before the Kermit stuff. My social media was just writing a poem a day.

I had like 300 followers. I was really doing it for my mom. She was, she's been so supportive of it. Uh, and I love it. I think I liked the writing more than I like anything else. Uh, so what ended up happening was the gel, the gel cabal, they announced their closing and I, there's this sweaty Oracle and Molly bales. They're the two people specifically that I watch. And I love that. They're so opinionated their social media. They know, even if they're saying things that people don't like, they don't care. They always say what they feel. Uh, and they have these platforms and they use them proactively. And I felt like I have these followers and there's these young people that watch me and, and I'm not doing anything.

I'm like, I'm making like silly videos and I'm not, I wasn't putting my poems in at that point. Uh, and I felt like I could do more. I felt like I owed it to this show. I had seen gel cabal twice already. I took my mom and she loved it. Uh, and I loved it too. And when they announced the closing, I was so heartbroken. Uh, so, uh, instead of writing for my poem a day, what I do is I wake up every morning and it's basically just free thought. And I did too. I did Andre, I wrote about Andre De Shields and how he made me feel. And I wrote about Kenneth Art. And so I originally just made wrote those two poems. And I was like, you know what? The show's going to close in three or four months. I should start telling people the reason to go and see it before it closes because the joy in that room.

And, uh, just the, the knowledge that you're getting. Uh, I didn't know anything about ballroom at the, before I saw Jellicle ball, I felt like I owed it to the performers in the Jellicle ball. I felt like I owed it to them just because they changed the way that I look at the world. So I wanted other people to have that experience. So I wrote, I made the two videos with the, this guy, the little pink buddy, uh, because I wanted to be able to speak as me instead of Kermit. Um, so I, I used him because I felt like he could just be my voice. And then I posted the two videos and they didn't get like a lot of engagement or anything, but Mr. Ard reached out to me and thanked me for writing it for him.

And I just felt like, why shouldn't I write about all of these incredible performers? They deserved it. They deserved to be seen because they were changing the world on a day-to-day basis. I still am so sad that we can't go into that room and feel the joy that, uh, did you ever feel anything like that watching a show?

[10:29] Mike Abrams: No, no, it was the, well, the downtown when I saw it at the pack, you know, like that makes me so sad. Yeah. That show had an energy level that you don't see. I mean, there's some that get close, but there was just a level of joy and energy in that, in that theater every night. I see everything. I love theater. Musical theater is the love of my life, but the way that I felt every time I was in that room sitting next to people that saw themselves on that stage, man, that made me, it just, it, it still makes me feel good. Like I get goosebumps thinking about being in the room and it makes me sad that like, where was it? It was at the pack. Yeah. Downtown at the Perlman. Yeah. I wish that, I wish that there was some money that it could have just stayed there.

I think that we need, I think that that's like where theater needs to start going because like, like Cats and the Jellicle Ball, I didn't do it for Dead Outlaw and Dead Outlaw was another show that I felt similarly to with the Jellicle Ball where I loved it so much and felt it was saying so much that needed to be said in the time that we're living in now. And I should have been posting about Dead Outlaw, go see Dead Outlaw. I, I, I needed to use the platform. I need to use it better. I guess it's basically what it all comes down to.

[11:50] Mike Abrams: Yeah. How did you research, uh, about like the backstories of lives? Cause there was stuff like I I've interviewed, I think almost everybody that you, that you did a thing about, and there were some things that I was watching those videos doing. I don't, I don't think I even knew this. And this is really cool to see, like highlighting, not just the performance, but the performer.

[12:08] Brett Evans: Oh, it got like intense that it took. That was probably the most work that I've ever put into anything in my life, which I don't know what that says about me. Um, but I, your podcast was an incredible tool. Uh, so don't sell yourself short at all. There is so much to mine from those interviews alone, but you can find interviews from all of them. I mean, Google, you know, you look up the person and you, you mine for the information. It's all there. Uh, but a lot of interviews, a lot of Google broadway.com had a lot of interesting interviews with a lot of the actors. Um, I mean, people like Andre De Shields, uh, and Ken are like, they go back forever, but Emma Sophia had a lot of stuff going back.

Bryce had interesting things to find like through Google broadway.com who, who else had house of, I mean, I mean like looking at the different houses where they came up, like the house of LaBeija and everything there, there are interviews of people talking about him. So I don't know. There's, uh, there's, there's just a lot Google.

[13:17] Mike Abrams: Was there, was there one that as you were researching there, just like this one's that like really stood out to you. I'm going to take out Ken and Andre, cause those are the ones that started the whole thing. But like maybe somebody else that really, really stood out.

[13:27] Brett Evans: Yeah. I mean, Robert Silk, Mason, very, very interesting life. Clearly, uh, Tara Lashan clink scales was an interesting Pum Zile Sohola Pum Zile Sohola, who like you, he was a booth singer, right? Getting to actually like look into.

[14:19] Brett Evans: On a day-to-day basis. How many times did you see the show?

[14:22] Mike Abrams: I think I saw it 10 times between the two.

[14:26] Brett Evans: And how often was Bryce in it?

[14:28] Mike Abrams: Almost every time, and in a different character.

[14:30] Brett Evans: In a different character.

[14:31] Mike Abrams: Every time. Unbelievable.

[14:33] Brett Evans: That's what I ended up finding, was that it wasn't even just the research of these people.

[14:41] Mike Abrams: It was what they were capable of doing, like how Baby and Primo were able to move.

[14:48] Brett Evans: Just their movement kind of blew my mind.

[14:50] Mike Abrams: So then you had to go back into their history of where they learned that movement.

[14:55] Brett Evans: And that's where all of it came. I wrote one of these about you, actually.

[14:58] Mike Abrams: I wrote one of the reflections. Do you want to hear it?

[15:03] Brett Evans: Yeah.

[15:04] Mike Abrams: I'll do it. Yeah, okay. But for you, you...

[15:08] Brett Evans: I'll read it, and then I'll explain how I get to the point. Okay, so...

[15:14] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[15:15] Brett Evans: I think there is something profoundly beautiful about refusing to reach the bottom of something you love. About finding one strange, wonderful corner of the universe and deciding, I want to know everything about this. That is what inspires me about Mike Abrams and The Wrong Cat Died. Because yes, it begins with an objectively hilarious question. Did the wrong cat die? But somewhere along the way, the question became a doorway. And Mike kept walking through it. Hundreds of episodes, hundreds of artists, hundreds of different answers to questions most people never thought to ask. What does this cat want? Who do they love? Where were they before the Jellicle Ball? Why do they move that way? Why does this moment matter?

And suddenly, a musical people have spent decades reducing to a punchline becomes infinite. I love that. Because maybe loving art isn't about completely understanding it. Maybe it's about remaining curious. It's saying, I've looked at this 100 times, and I believe there is still something here I haven't seen. Mike has built this extraordinary archive of people who have lived inside Cats. Performers, designers, creators. People carrying completely different versions of the same strange little universe inside themselves. And he listens to them. Really listens. There is generosity in that. Because every artist hopes someone will care enough to notice the choices they made when nobody was necessarily looking.

Mike looks. That's what inspires me most about The Wrong Cat Died. Find the thing you love, then go deeper. Ask the unnecessary question. Follow the ridiculous thought. Learn every name. Turn over every stone in the junkyard. Because sometimes obsession, when it's powered by curiosity and generosity, becomes scholarship. Sometimes fandom becomes preservation. And sometimes one person loving something enough to keep asking questions reminds the rest of us that there is no such thing as looking too closely at something that brings you joy. There is always another cat. There is always another story. There is always more to love. So what it breaks down to for me, Mike, is you inspire me because you've taken something that you love.

And not only have you, you said in the beginning that you took this question and you made it into a podcast, but that's not what this is. That's not what you're doing. You're making these people who go on tour, the designers, who aren't necessarily showcased in the way that they should be. Bryce Harris, I'm sorry, they deserve to be looked at the same way Andre De Shields is looked at and Norbert Leo Butz and Audra McDonald and Kelly O'Hara. What you're doing is remarkable. What you're doing is remarkable. So you take the one thing that I find inspiring about you is you really love the thing you love and you've created a world for all of us to enter every week. That's beautiful, man. Like, that's such a beautiful thing. So frog bless you.

[18:26] Mike Abrams: Thank you so much. And that's basically how I make them is I find one thing about the person I take some of the because first I write the poem before I write the reflection. For you, I wrote the reflection before the poem. Like whenever this podcast comes out, I'll make the video. But you write a poem of just free thought. You find like what the narrative of the thought is and then you create the reflection. That's basically how I've been doing them.

[18:55] Brett Evans: That's incredible. First of all, thank you. I cannot wait to see that. I mean, that was awesome. I'm like, I'm like, all right, what can I I got to clip this and just send it to everyone. It'll be there. It'll be a video just for you. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. But there's a couple of things that really stand out about that that I love. One is is we talk a lot about the just how like the muscle memory of doing things and like building that muscle. To me, you've been writing these poems every day and you can see how much that that pays off by that like continuous muscle memory of doing it, because that's so well written and so well done. And I don't think I would love I mean, you probably go back, but your first few probably aren't that way.

[19:40] Mike Abrams: Brutal.

[19:42] Brett Evans: They're very, I still don't feel like I'm that talented of a writer.

[19:47] Mike Abrams: I'm so thankful.

[19:47] Brett Evans: You are.

[19:48] Mike Abrams: No, you are.

[19:49] Brett Evans: Very, very sweet. I just I told you before, my brain moves so much faster than my mind, but my mind also moves. It's constantly in motion, but it's usually only in motion about these like bizarre things like I'm obsessed with musical theater. That's really what it comes down to. It's I think about all the time because so with this show, I didn't know much about it when it started recording and I go back to like as I've built a listening fan base and following. I'm like, oh, God, what happens when you listen to episode like 15, you know, like, oh, I didn't know.

[20:22] Brett Evans: And they're amazing. You come off so natural. You're such a nice person. Everybody is. I'm I'm already so comfortable with you. Like it's it's clear that you're incredible at this.

[20:34] Mike Abrams: I appreciate that. It's central place of curiosity, which is just like, because I didn't know anything when I started, I was asking the questions because I was I wanted to actually wanted to know and there was so much to that. And that's honestly a lot of times when I find guests who I'm looking for. So Bryce, Bryce and I had time to record. I'm still Bryce. I still want to be on the show so badly. I had time to record.

[20:56] Brett Evans: No, and it's because we had the time to record and then it was during the joke of all and then Bryce pulled into a rehearsal to go help somebody else. And I was like, this is the most bright situation of like right to reschedule.

[21:08] Mike Abrams: Exactly. Because they're working so hard.

[21:10] Brett Evans: Because Bryce, to me, was the MVP of that entire production. I will never understand how swings and understudies are capable of doing what they're doing, but how Bryce was able to cover every single track that the way that these people that those people were moving. I don't understand how like his body was capable of it. I mean, it's a skill. It's a complete skill.

[21:35] Mike Abrams: Oh, what the swings were being able to do. And I mean, I gain respect. I mean, honestly, where it stood out in the I keep calling it the original cast, but just the cat's non Angelica ball. But I was when I was with the national tour and there were two different performers and they were telling me how they go on for Bombay and Demeter on the same day in the two show that's wild. So and my brain doesn't work that way to be able to do the same song, but the other half and spin the other way and sing the other lyric and do that all in 24 hours. I can barely memorize one song with three weeks notice.

[22:16] Brett Evans: Exactly.

[22:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's wild what they're able to do, but it does it does show that these people have put in the work because they they really, really unbelievable talent. And that's the whole other thing about the Angelica ball. Every single person was perfect. No matter what, like the first two times I saw the show, Kalen West was shimble shanks. So and what they gave in that performance was so different than what Emma gave. I don't know. Brilliant people. Brilliant.

[22:49] Brett Evans: They're all just. Yeah, I hope it has another life coming. I I'm not convinced it's it's done. I don't know. You hear rumors and stuff and you get your hopes up. And then my hopes get broken and shattered.

[23:01] Mike Abrams: My dreams are.

[23:03] Brett Evans: Yeah, I constantly am pushing behind the scenes on things. And I'm, you know, you talked about some of the other influencers. I'm not breaking news. I'm not. I'm not ever in that place. And so I'm all a lot of times I'm like, I'm going to shoot a note to this person. Oh, I'm deep in that sweaty Oracle discord. I want to know every single thing. And he usually knows. So I don't know. We'll see. I hope I do hope that there's more life to it. And I do hope it's somewhere downtown in a small venue because the intimacy in the Broadhurst was beautiful. But I think intimacy at a place like the pack must have been unbelievable.

[23:39] Mike Abrams: I was convinced it was going to circle in the square before just in time took it.

[23:42] Brett Evans: Yeah, that would have been amazing for that. I think just in time lasted way longer than they thought it was going to completely. It's I mean, it's very well done.

[23:52] Mike Abrams: So if you know, it's amazing.

[23:53] Brett Evans: It's very well done. It's got multiple former cats in the cast. So I'm always like, have a blast every time I see them on performing. Yeah, quick tangent, like the cast, the recasting of Hadestown of just in time, like it's interesting how certain shows are able to do it that make you want to go back to see it.

[24:12] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah.

[24:13] Brett Evans: Oh, there's definitely a lot of those shows. I'm also not a I know a lot of people are maybe this is like the non New Yorkers and the non theater people because like you meet some of the theater influencers or like the deep theater fans and it's like, yeah, I've seen that show 25 times. But like where I'm from, my family's shocked when I go back to a show. And then I'll be like, well, did you just rewatch that movie yesterday? Like it's to me, it's the same thing. Just life. It's even better because the movie is always going to be the same. The show is always going to be different.

[24:44] Mike Abrams: That's what I like about it.

[24:45] Brett Evans: Completely. Yeah. I want to hear more about how you started your content creation journey. Because it's I know, I know a little bit of the beginning just from us talking before. And then you reminded me of the history with our shared sports love.

[25:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I don't want to get we can only go too far into the sports love here. Just based on this, this audience. We'll have a few that'll love it. But how did you how did you start this your channel?

[25:11] Brett Evans: So it actually started because I've always wanted to live with the Muppets. I've always felt this, this strong kinship with Kermit, where Kermit's dream is to just hang out with all of his friends and put on a show. That's that's always been my favorite thing to do. So I've always wanted to live with Kermit. So the second that I had any money, I bought a Kermit and I never used him. He was he just basically sat in my closet for like four years. And one day something tragic happened to one of my best friends. And to make him laugh, I bought a little baby onesie, Kansas City Chief Patrick Mahomes onesie. And I made a little wig of curly black hair. And I had this red bandana and I tied it around.

And I started going up to the TV after the Chiefs were playing. And I would do here I have them. I would take Kermit and I would say I would pretend to be Patrick Mahomes. So he would say, let's say Patrick Mahomes would be like, oh, we had we had a great time. We we played our the defense played great tonight. We have to a lot to work on on offense, Kelsey. And so what I did, you exaggerated. Hey, baby, it's me, Patrick Mahomes here. We need to score more touchdowns. So so what I was my friend, Brandon, he told me that I should put it on TikTok. So I put a video up on TikTok and the algorithm gods blessed me. And a bunch of sports fans saw it. And they loved it because who doesn't love Kermit? So what ended up happening was I would make video. I think that was right around the Super Bowl where they beat the Eagles. I think it was I think it was that year.

[26:57] Mike Abrams: Can Mahomes see it?

[26:59] Brett Evans: No, I doubt it.

[27:02] Mike Abrams: Okay, okay, where?

[27:02] Brett Evans: So it was the it was the Super Bowl where the Kelsey brothers played each other in the Super Bowl and Trav, the Chiefs, won. So I did a lot of videos. And then it just started like trickling in the musical theater stuff where I didn't really know how to make videos. I didn't. The sound was all awful and I stopped doing it. So then my grandpa died and I was really sad. And there was a gap of like six months where I stopped making any videos. And it was when Ben Platt.

[27:36] Brett Evans: I was in Parade. And there was that trend that was like, you could cancel. Do you remember that? And everybody would dance and everybody would be so mad. So my grandpa died. And the funeral was the day after the Tony Awards. So I made a video. And that did well. And it was me. And so I was making videos with Brett. But Brett, just, I didn't find myself very interesting. And then Rise of the Pink Ladies got canceled, just like Jellica Ball. And I was so sad. So I made a bunch of Kermit doing Grease videos. And that's how it slowly got to the point of Kermit meets musical theater. And I saw, I've always thought about, I've always cast Muppets in musicals my entire life. I felt Sweeney Frog, Demon Muppet of Sesame Street is the funniest thing in the world.

I don't understand why it doesn't exist. Cookiestown instead of Hadestown, where Cookie Monster is Hades. What did I say for Jesus Christ Superstar? It's Kermit, Fozzie Bear, Fozzie Bear Soup. No, Kermit Frog, Kermit. I forget what I call that. But where Gonzo is, how am I, Jesus and how am I, oh my God, Judas, where Gonzo is Judas. There's just so much to mine. The Muppets meets musical theater is such an easy thing for Disney to do. I didn't understand why it wasn't happening. So it basically, that's what happened. It started as Patrick Mahomes as Kermit and then just became musical theater and the Muppets. Yeah. And then, I mean, I think I saw, it's funny because I don't think I pieced together until today that those two things were the same. Because I was sent the memory when you, it was Miss Piggy Singing Memory, I believe.

[29:34] Mike Abrams: Muammary.

[29:36] Brett Evans: Okay. I was sent that probably a thousand times. And it was like, and I loved it. It was so funny. And then that was when I started really following of like, oh, I love it. Here you're doing Hamilton and here you're doing this. And they all pop up and they're all really fun. And I literally watch every single one of them. I follow you on all platforms. I follow you on every single platform. It wasn't until today that I realized that I definitely saw the Mahomes one because it went so viral and it was so funny because people had been poking fun at his voice sounding like Kermit for years. And you were the first one that I saw that did it, that actually took the puppet and did it.

[30:14] Brett Evans: Oh yeah. I love Patrick Mahomes. The year that he threw for like 50 touchdowns, I had him and Kelsey on my fantasy team. So they won me a bunch of money. All about the chief. I'm a Jets fan, unfortunately. But I love the Kansas City Chiefs. Love that they're off to a hot start. I'd love Kelsey to have one last really nice run and not go out like you would have last year. Sorry to all the theater fans that I just talked about.

[30:42] Mike Abrams: Well, hold on. I'll bring it back because he, well, he's looked, Kelsey's looked great this year. This will come out a few weeks later. So I hope he's continued with this. They should be 6-0 around.

[30:51] Brett Evans: This is after week three that we're recording this for any sportsmen out there. They're 3-0. They beat my team in overtime in week two. But we'll bring this back to Cats because I have, again, I'm a huge sports fan. So I don't talk about it as much on this show, but you'll see it pop into my stuff every once in a while where I'm like, I compared the Jellicle Ball to the WNBA and people love that minus a couple of my choices I think they weren't super thrilled on. But Bombay Arena married Travis Kelsey, and I still make a lot of memes because of Taylor Swift being in that Cats movie all the time. So every time I see her on screen watching a Chiefs game, which also I'm like, all right, people, I don't care that they're showing her. She is the most famous person in that entire arena.

[31:38] Brett Evans: There is no better marketing than the NFL. The NFL knows exactly what they're doing. They tried to get the Chargers to win this last week so they could get more Madison Beer on the screen. Let's be real. The NFL knows what they're doing. They're reaching across a lot of different audiences. That's why they're going to have John Mulaney and Stephen Colbert do the Odd Couple because they want to bring a bunch of people that love them to the theater. I love it.

[32:03] Mike Abrams: I do think there is a piece of theater marketing that could take from some of the sports leagues where the sports leagues have turned into, they are entertainment and they've always been entertainment, but there was a competitiveness before that. I was talking to somebody about basketball the other day because I'm in Seattle right now recording this. I saw a bunch of Sean Kemp stuff. It's going to be nothing to most of you, but that, yeah, former pacer, that time, that era, that competitiveness was very different than what we see today. And today what we see is entertainment. And I do think what they've done and where they thrive is areas where I think Broadway could learn from and improve of like, how do you take this?

Because Broadway to me is very similar in like the artistry and the skill and the talent is the peak of what they're doing. And I've always compared it to like, these are athletes. These are incredible athletes that are dancing and performing, but there's a little bit of the, like, can we get a little bit more of the showmanship into why we get the person in there or highlight the stuff or cross over more because the Taylor Swift fans going to a football game is different than the football fans going to a football game. And that's good for the league. And I constantly am telling people that my network is definitely, I have a very good and fun theater friend group and like group that I know well.

A majority of my family and people I know and people I talked to that I grew up with see a show every five years. And I'm trying to like, that's where it's like, how can I bring that group in or how can I cross over to what they're interested in to show them that they actually would love this. And it's maybe it's this one show in particular or some of this thing that are, they're crazy. But I mean, I see a lot of shows and I'm like, God, that's for this friend and they would love this. And how do I get them to know about this? You buy them the $500 ticket yourself that that's what I ended up starting to do is that when there's a show that I'm really obsessed with, I just start taking them people that I think need to see it.

That's where I am at this point. Like that Once on this Island at Circle in the Square like that. I think I bought about 25 people tickets to it just because I thought and same with Jellicle Ball. I think I took about seven different people to see it because I felt that they needed to. They're starting to get there with the marketing, right? Like they're understanding the Mormon wives. Everybody loves the Mormon wives. So let's throw the Mormon wife into Chicago and Ariana Maddox. Let's throw her into Just In Time. I get it. I get what they're doing. They're doing that in the big longstanding shows though or newer popular already. You're right. I want it in some of those like and I don't know if you got a stunt cast everything, but there was so many people that I think in the Jellicle Ball would have loved it that didn't go either because they're anti-Cats or they don't know ballroom or everything.

And I did the same thing. I brought a lot of people. I also like most of my friends and family are not in New York and that makes it a little tougher of like how can we can they lie? I mean I love live streaming. Like what are other ways to get people? Oh yeah. I wish that with me and my sister talk about this all the time. I wish that with every ticket you got to have that show. I wish that there was a way that you could watch that performance forever. Starkid does it really well where they have the live streams that you could watch even before they go on YouTube. I think that should be the future. You're totally right. Well put.

[35:36] Brett Evans: Yeah. So a lot of things. Again, as you put in your poem, I focus on one thing and I go real deep on this one thing. Sure. And so I have a lot of thoughts and I will share them with people and then I'm like, all right, someone that's a producer can go figure out how to make that happen. Everybody's better start listening to The Wrong Cat Died over here.

[35:53] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, can you do my, can you do my intro and Kermit?

[36:00] Brett Evans: Yeah. A hundred percent. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there and the wrong one died and the wrong one died.

[36:10] Mike Abrams: Hey, that was awesome. Was that the right words? Did I nail it?

[36:10] Brett Evans: Yeah, that was right. Yeah. And it's funny cause I don't listen to the intros anymore when I'm like all together. And when it was created, like we, this show was supposed to be 10 episodes and it was just supposed to be me talking about the characters from my perspective. I was in my research. Yeah. And, and so when they created the, uh, someone, I forget who made it, but, um, my producer, Alan Seales, he reached out to somebody and they made that song and I heard, I'm like, that's so funny. And that's great. And it's very catchy. And so it's like, it is stuck in people's head on the, I sing along with it as Kermit every single episode on the train, anywhere I'm going.

[36:49] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah. That's so fun. Um, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. You, I love the idea of the Muppets being in more things. How would you do Muppets Cats?

[37:00] Brett Evans: Okay. I actually knew that this question was coming. I wrote down every single character. Okay. Um, I think that Grisabella is clearly Miss Piggy. Um, that's just because I do think like, that's very funny. The her singing Lomari makes me laugh. I think she's Grisabella before she gets like, before she leaves, like she's the, like, I don't think she's the rugged Miss Piggy. Like she's, she's still the early Grisabella. Right. Like, I don't think she's made it to where she needs to come back. You think that she's always just like very beautiful, like the entire time piggy is just, yeah, yeah. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm, you've got a different version. I can see it. I see the Betty Buckley like rags and tatters, like the makeup all down piggy's pink face.

Like I see that. Okay. And then, and then at the end she's like elegant with the boa and the pink dress and her hair is perfectly quaffed. I see, I definitely see him as piggy as Grisabella. I think another definite, uh, casting, I just don't ever want to mess up the name of the cat. Oh, I can get you the names. Don't worry. Who is that? Okay. So I think Yolanda Rat and Rizzo are Mongo, Jerry and Rumple Teaser. And I think there's going to be some discourse to that because I think most people think the rats should just be the top dancing mice or whatever. But I think that's silly because I think that there, there, there are animals in the Muppets that you have to get past it. Like, I think that Ralph is Old Deuteronomy, even though Kermit is Old Deuteronomy, you get the Old Deuteronomy, Ker Frog me.

You could do that. But I think that it's Ralph just because Ralph has this like grounded nature where everybody really loves him. And like everybody does like Ralph's around the piano. Everybody comes around the piano and there's something funny about a dog being the leader of the past. Like, that's funny to me. So then I think Kermit is Monk a Strap.

[38:57] Brett Evans: Yeah. Next in line, right? Like he's next in line. He is like the, the narrator for all intensive purposes. Um, Gonzo is definitely Mr. Mistoffelees. Not even a question. I think that works really well. Uh, who am I missing? Oh, okay. Uh, Shambles Shanks Scooter. Scooter is always on time with the checklist. Uh, always making sure everything is in line. Who else am I? Oh, uh, Robin, Robin, uh, Robin, Robin, Robin, Robin, Robin. There was perfect casting for him. Oh no. Who's the number one fan of Grisabella? Syllabub. Syllabub. Robin is definitely Syllabub. Think about how cute little Robin would be singing the memory reprise. Um, who else am I missing? Who? So who's our, who's Cookie Monster?

I don't know if Cookie Monster's in it. Who do you wait? Who would you cast as Cookie Monster? I half it's, it's only half there. So half of it to me is Buster for Jones. Just because I could see the excess eating, but Buster for Jones is so posh and Cookie Monster feels a little like I think that Buster for Jones who I cast with Sam, the American Eagle. I think I wrote it all down. It's, um, Mr. Offaly, uh, Victoria, Macavity, Bumble Arena, Demeter, Jenny, any dots? Yeah, I had Sam, the Eagle, which, but I like Cookie Monster. Cookie Monster totally works. Who's our, our Macavity. Who's our villain? Macavity. Who did I have as Macavity? See Macavity. I don't, I think that my Macavity was bad.

Yeah. My Macavity I don't think is correct. I wrote Uncle Deadly, but I don't know if that's right. It, it didn't feel right when I was thinking about it, but I couldn't think of anybody that had that gravitas of what they did in the Jellicle Ball. So maybe that's the human. Yeah, that could be. Yeah. The other one that I feel like has to fit somewhere, but I can't figure out where it is. Beaker. Beaker just feels like Beaker. Yeah. Maybe Beaker's Macavity. That would be funny. That could be pretty good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I like Beaker though as Macavity. I did a cement. I loved when Beaker went viral, uh, with everyone telling this unhinged stories on social media using her image.

[41:25] ⚠ About 9 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.

[50:25] Brett Evans: Right. Well said. Are you, um, if you could put together 10 of your poems and make a, or however many, 15-year poems and make the next CATS? I think that that's my goal at this point is to create a book of poetry and take all of these poems that I'm writing. A lot of it is just about the love of art and the love of human creation, because I'm afraid that that's what's going to disappear in the next five years with everything that's coming up. Um, and I think that human creation now more than ever is super important. Uh, so yes, I do think that I could do that. I think that that's a good idea. Make a book and then the book will turn however many years down the road. Somebody will find it and say, you know what? I'll be long gone. Singing to this. With puppets. With puppets. And that's going to be the next, the next, uh, the next big thing.

[51:20] Mike Abrams: This has been so fun. How can people stay in touch with you on all social media? All platforms will link everything too.

[51:25] Brett Evans: Sure. So on Tickety Talk, my thing is KermitMafrog. I think if you type KermitMafrog into anything, I come up. But on Instagram, which is, I find right now the most interesting social media platform, it's Brett EvansMafrog.

[51:41] Mike Abrams: Okay. Well, we'll link both of those too. But yeah, if you just, you just gotta look up Mafrog.

[51:48] Brett Evans: Yeah, Mafrog, I think. You might be the only Mafrog out there.

[51:52] Mike Abrams: For now. Eventually there'll be another one.

[51:56] Brett Evans: I love it. Well, this has been so fun. I'm so excited for this to come out. All the things I'm gonna, I now have on my to-do list to pick five more songs.

[52:01] Mike Abrams: Five more songs.

[52:05] Brett Evans: Yes, please. And, uh, and I'll send them to you. I got to think of which ones I got to start. Let me, let me do some like real thinking, because I want to think of some puns with it.

[52:12] Brett Evans: I want to think of some like more Muppet-based. I just gave you my two songs. Give me some obscure stuff. I love that these are two things that I don't know. I love learning new theater. I do. I just gave you the ones that get stuck in my head. Okay. They're very, they're just, those two are just fun. Or, well, one's really fun. Madison's House is just so fun and funny. The other one is just a little weird. And so, uh, and I, and I like that. I'm a big fan of the, like, a little odd, a little off at times. Who is your favorite Muppet? Who, like, who do you relate to the most? I guess I should say. Relate to is a little bit harder. My favorite's probably Gonzo, just because it's really, I just love, it's just fun.

Um, relate to, let me think. See, I relate probably, I'm between Kermit and Gonzo, for sure. Yeah, I could see. There's, I probably, the thing about it is I probably have a mix of a couple. Yeah. Because I could definitely feel a little bit of the, like, there's a part of me that's a little bit quieter. And, um, when I'm not doing this podcast, like a little bit more, like I have a job that has a lot of public speaking and all this stuff. And I go, but then like, I go back. And so there's a little Fozzie Bear to that, where it's like, I can, I'll go on stage and I'll go do those things. I'll do the standup or whatever. But I, but, uh, we'll be a little bit more back. I think I do have a little bit of Rolf though, uh, the dog just being a little bit more easygoing.

Like I'm a very Midwesterner at heart. And so there's, there's some of that too. Yeah. I know I'm very much not an animal or, uh, you know, like some of the other ones. Yeah. You're a little too even-tempered, I think to be an animal for sure. So it's, it's a fun exercise. And I hope that they have a, I hope the Muppets end up on Broadway again in a show that does better than the one I saw. I believe that it's coming. I think that Lin-Manuel Miranda and Joe Iconis, like their voices lend themselves to the Muppets so beautifully that I just think that it's, it's an unavoidable thing to happen. Like eventually it had Carmelton has to happen where Lin-Manuel Miranda needs to be the guest on the Muppet show.

I don't understand what they're waiting for to announce that. And they'll do wait, Kermit. I'm willing to wait, Kermit. Like it's just there. It's all there. Just come on. What are we waiting for? It's ready for a lot of stuff. I love it. So, um, awesome. Well, thanks again for coming on. It was great to meet you and, uh, I'm excited for this to all come out. And just like really quick. Thank you again to everybody that was involved with the Jellicle Ball. You did change my life. You did. You changed a lot of people's lives. And again, I hope there's more. There's a future for this beyond the cast album. So that's fine. That's my help. We're going to manifest it. If nothing else, and already manifesting done.

Awesome. Well, thanks again. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died. The podcast breakdown, the cast has your feet to follow along. You can subscribe to Apple podcast, Spotify podcast, follow us on social media, TheWrongCatDied or check our website, TheWrongCatDied.com.