This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. He was the Rum Tum Tugger in the German Tent Tour and then the Vienna revival of Cats. I'm excited to have him here today. So welcome, Dominik Hees, and thank you for joining me.

[0:28] Dominik Hees: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to have you here because I was recommended you and I've heard your multiple experiences as the Rum Tum Tugger was always fun and exciting and entertaining. So we'll get into your multiple jaunts with Cats, but let's start with your Cats history. So when was the first time you saw it? When were you introduced to the musical?

[0:51] Dominik Hees: The first time I was introduced to the musical was when my agent back in 2000, I think it was 2009, called me and said they're looking for Rum Tum Tugger on a German speaking European tour. And I said, I've never seen it. I need to check it out. And then I watched the DVD. And you know, my background with musicals is I have no training in school. Like I haven't been to university. And I kind of got into the job through band music. And I played Buddy Holly and they were looking for somebody who could play the guitar and was kind of like a young rock and roll singer. And then when I saw that DVD, I was like, no, that's not gonna happen. That's not my kind of thing. And then my agent said, you know, that's it's such an iconic show and such an iconic character.

And they're desperately looking for somebody that was already a casting, like, you know, where they couldn't find somebody in the first round of auditions. And then they had another audition. And it was like, it was late to get somebody. And she was like, why don't you just give it a try? And, you know, the song is a cool song, it suits you. And whatever happens to what character you're going to create, think about this later, just go and meet those people. And then I went to the audition. And I can remember in my first audition, Chrissie Cartwright asked me to do a pirouette. And I didn't know what it was. I said, What, what exactly is that? And this was like, a turn on one foot. I was like, okay, I can do that.

So I had nothing to do with dance. I had, like, I had no clue. And but somehow, they liked me, they liked my character, they liked, like my type, and maybe my voice. And then the company who was producing this said, Why don't you come three times a week and practice with one of our dancers? And she can, she's done Cats before, and she can teach you a little bit of the opening choreography and some basics. And then they had me come in three times a week for two hours, and I had private dance lessons, and then did a callback, and then I got the role. And I was terrified. I was really terrified, because I only knew John Partridge's interpretation. I was like, I cannot do that. There's, there's no way.

And I said that straight away, I said to Chrissie Cartwright, I was like, I'm not that guy. It's just like, we'll find something, we'll find your character. It's fine. And that's also what I think is the beauty about Cats and about, especially the Rum Tum Tugger, that there are many ways to interpret this role.

[4:18] Mike Abrams: And so, yeah, I'm fascinated by this. So at this point, you're not doing musical theater. You're like, you're rock and rolling, essentially.

[4:25] Dominik Hees: Well, I was, I always played instruments. I played the piano, the guitar, bass, drums, and I was playing in bands. And in school, I was involved in concerts and stuff. And then, at some point, I got into the, like an amateur musical group as an MD. And we were doing like, like a version of Spring Awakening. But Spring Awakening wasn't out in Europe, it was only on Broadway. So there was basically no material that we could use. But I was kind of getting into musicals at that time, like when I left Watts High School in Germany. And then Spring Awakening came to Germany as a professional production, and they were looking for people that didn't need to have training. It said in the audition form, you don't have to have training, we're looking from 16 to 25.

And then I just went there. And I got a job in Spring Awakening. And yeah, basically, it was like, I never thought I could be a professional performer on stage. And then it just happened. And from there, it went, yeah, now it's 17 and a half years that I do musical theatre. And it's, yeah, it's, it's crazy. It's a great intro. Yeah. And Cats, Cats was the third show that I did. And, but it was basically the first, like, classical musical. And I didn't, I didn't see myself there. I was, yeah, I was always interested in like pop and rock music and, and playing instruments. And Cats was so far away. And also my friends, they were laughing at me. They were like, yeah, Dominik, you don't know what you're doing.

You don't know what you get yourself into. And I was like, oh, yeah. And, and I was terrified. And I thought that it's, I'm probably gonna hate it. And then it became the character or the show that I love the most, I think, and has also, it had, it made me learn how to perform, it made me learn what it means to play eight shows a week and, and to entertain many people every day. And it's, that was basically my school, Cats was my school. And I played the Rum Tum Tugger for, I think, 800 or 900 times. And I loved it every single time. It's just such an amazing role.

[7:08] Mike Abrams: So I want you to fast forward now to, you're getting private dance lessons before you were even cast. And then you're now cast in the show. And you know, you've seen the 1998 movie, you've got the idea of what you're going to do. I want to hear the moment when you like, because you danced the Jellicle Ball. What was that first kind of like rehearsals where you're like, I've got to, I don't know what a pirouette is. And now I've got to dance this 14 minute, 13 minute intensive dance number where you're doing all kinds of stuff. Like what was going through your head at that time?

[7:44] Dominik Hees: Well, I think generally, I have a moving talent, like sports was also always a big part of my life. So I could, I could learn certain movements in certain sports quite well. And also dancing. And I mean, the flexibility was not there at all, of course. But you know, I can remember steps and I can, you know, I was, I was not terrible at that. And then the beauty of how they put up the show is that they, they look at you, they see your talents, and they feature it. And John Partridge obviously had a, has a, is a fantastic dancer. So they put him in the ball in the first row. And sometimes he would lead, you know, the sections and, and they didn't do that with me. They just had me do like the bare minimum in the Jellicle Ball and made me look good.

Like when I see recordings of it, it looks good. And knowing the fact that I didn't know anything about dancing. Yeah, it's a cool thing that Chrissie Cartwright, she just, she saw my ability and, and they just, yeah, we created that part of the Rum Tum Tugger. That's not on the DVD. But I think they do it with everyone, they put you in sections that they know you can do and, and you're safe, and it looks good. And yeah, so but I have to say, it was by far the most, the most demanding, physically demanding show that I've done.

[9:37] Mike Abrams: Completely. Yeah, it's, it's interesting to hear that, that there was, you know, because Cats has so many dancers and ensemble members, and the ability to kind of move parts around, there's really no even two productions that are identical. Like there's a lot of like, when I, you know, I'll see this new version, and I'm like, oh, they decided to have this person do the lift or this person do that part. And so it's kind of there's a lot of chance for that and a lot of opportunity for that. But it's interesting to hear, you know, how you, you know, how you approach that and how you got to make those adjustments. So, so you're now cast, you do two years on this tour in Germany. And this was the tent tour. So it was like massive in the round kind of big theaters most of the time, correct?

[10:26] Dominik Hees: Yes, yes. And I, I, after one year, I basically made the decision to leave. Because I mean, it was a great, it was a very, very great production. It was on being on tour, I was 21. Back then. It was a dream. And then I had a girlfriend on tour. And it was just a, it was a beautiful, beautiful life. But the show was demanding. And also, for me, I'm I was, I was also interested in, in acting. And I mean, acting in a human, in a human character. So, so I, I was ready to leave. And then I did like, small other things in between, but they kept getting me back into the show. So I left several times and I came back several times. And, and yeah, all in all, it was, yeah, I think two and a half years.

Yeah. Two and a half years, I think I was with the tour or something like that. And, and it was the tent. I mean, maybe you have spoken about it with somebody. But I mean, Cats is, is a tough show anyway. But in the tent, it was like winter, sometimes we had 10 degrees on stage. And then in the summer in Vienna, we had we had 40, 45 degrees on stage, people in the audience were fainting. And, and, and we were playing eight shows, sometimes nine shows a week. It, yeah, after that, after that job, I was like, I can do anything that I know. Yeah, no matter how hard it's gonna be, I've done this and I know I can do, I can push through anything. It was, it was a tough school. Good school. Yeah.

[12:23] Dominik Hees: It is fascinating because I do, it's like one of the beauty, I got a beautiful part of Cats is that it can be said a lot of places. And so, you know, I went to the Regents Park in London recently and it's outdoors and, you know, you have the, in the round or you've got a tent and you've got all the elements you've got to add into, you know, the fact that they're, they're cats. So yeah, it does work, you know, to do that. I want you to take me back to the rehearsal where we talked about, you know, in 2010, when you're, you're doing the dance part of this, but what do you remember about the storytelling part? Cause like there's, you know, there's, Tugger's got a very set part of their, you know, part like, hey, they're the rockstar cat.

This is what they're doing. But then there's a lot of loose interpretations of like, how do you play the relationship with Mustafili's and Bombalurina and Grizabella? So how much was told to you and how much did you, over the course of your multiple years of doing the show kind of add in, or did you not even think about it that much?

[13:24] Dominik Hees: So we started rehearsing in, in, in this first production that I did with Chrissy Cartwright. And, and then we had, I had the privilege to, to work with Jillian Lynn for a week. And I can remember when I was doing another show during rehearsals and I was not there for, for the day that she arrived, but then in the next day I would join for rehearsals. And, and when I entered the room mid rehearsal, she stopped the rehearsal and then she was like, okay, everybody take a break. And then she came straight up to me and did like a solo session for an hour. She, it was like, as if she had waited to work with me on the Rum Tum Tug. Because I think she, she just loves that character or loved that character so much, but her interpretation and Chrissy Cartwright's interpretation are very different.

[14:26] Dominik Hees: Okay. Say more. I think, I think that Cats in the eighties and especially the Rum Tum Tug was much more sexual and, and let's say, yeah, old school rock star, bad boy, misfit. And I think it has become over the years, because it is a family show, it has become more family friendly and certain movements, certain movements had been changed to not make it too, how you say, vulgar.

[15:13] Dominik Hees: Yeah. You know, when, when, when I rehearsed with, with Jillian, she would say that, she would say the word, the word that starts with C and means penis. She said that, she said that at least 50 times in the rehearsal. She's like, it's all about your penis. So this moment is about your penis. And you show your penis and you go, well, you want my penis? You don't want, you don't get it. It was all about the sexual, the sexual energy of that character. And then, and then when she, when Jillian left, and I was a little bit confused, because that was not the way we approached this in the first week. Then, then Chrissy Cartwright explained to me, yeah, that that is the, that is one of the energies that he has.

But we, we also want to make it family friendly and, and make it not too vulgar. And I totally get that. I mean, times, times change. And then there's also feedback probably about the show. So that was really interesting, I thought. And then in 2019, when I did Cats again, that's when I met Trevor Nunn. And then there was a, an another interpretation of what the character is. Right. So like, in during the time that I've been with with the show, it has like, layers have have been added. You know, in the beginning, in the beginning, I thought, you know, I cannot be I cannot be what the character was maybe originally meant to be exactly. But I will find my version and I was kind of like a pop, like a boy band type of guy.

And, and, and I would have a lot of fun with the clown side of the Rum Tum Tugger, like the, the ADHD, the kid, you know, that needs attention all the time, and is just is the way it is because he needs the attention and he needs to just express, express, express that in a, in a loud way.

[17:37] Dominik Hees: Yeah. Yeah. In the beginning, it was, it was not a very sexual thing. It was more like a, an adolescent ADHD kid who was just messing with everybody all the time, especially with Munkustrap. And, and then it later in my in my later production of Cats, then it was, I felt that sexual energy more, and the sexiness of the character, which also has to do with more stillness and with, with looks and with, you know, like, especially with Bombalurina, more like a seductive energy. And that, that has, for example, changed. And then also when, when I worked with, with, with Trevor Nunn, that was also something that he, yeah, that, that he told me that there is, there's an energy that I can explore.

[18:47] Dominik Hees: That's very, that's the very boy band version of it, too. You know, at first, it's very wholesome and you're doing that. And then slowly it gets a little bit more, your solo show and break free. And we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. I do find it really interesting to hear how, you know, from three different, incredibly important people to this show from the beginning, have three different interpretations of the character. And it kind of is really highlights what the show is about, is that it is kind of open-ended and there's a lot of, like, freedom of movement and opportunity there. And then the Vienna part, too, is kind of interesting because I think that timing should have been just coming off of when they tried the hip-hop Tugger and then decided they didn't want to do that anymore. So you were either in the first batch of coming back to kind of the more traditional Tugger style.

[19:43] Dominik Hees: I was. Was that talked about at all? Um, so when I heard it, it came to Vienna again. I was afraid that it's not going to be the character that I know. Because I mean, I have fallen in love with this character. And that's also why I wanted to do it again, because I wanted to see, it was almost 10 years later, what I could do with that character now. And I was afraid that I would be the Jamaican hip-hop guy because I love that original Rum Tum Tugger so much. And then they told me, no, no, we're going back to the old version. But it was exactly that time when they had tried that, I think, in America, right?

[20:31] Dominik Hees: It was London. It was in London, Australia, that they tried it. And it seemed to come with mixed reviews. Like, I think some people really enjoyed it. Some people did not like it. I know some of the performers really enjoyed it. Some didn't enjoy it. But I think you all might have been the first time that they brought back that original piece. So would you have even auditioned, or did you audition, or did they just call you? Because this is, again, it's 10 years later, you're coming back to the role, or probably seven or eight years later. But you're coming back to a role that you did for on and off three years, or two years. So was it a phone call to you, or a phone call to them?

[21:08] Dominik Hees: No, I heard about it. I was in Salzburg by that time, and I was working with the boyfriend of the boss of the company that produced it, the Fein, the Bühnenbien. And I just spoke to him. I said, I heard you're doing Cats, you're bringing Cats. I need to audition for it again, because I think I'm not done. I'm not done yet. And he was like, yeah, perfect. And then I wrote Chrissy. What her feelings were about this, because I was 10 years older, and I know that they like to cast this very young. And I was a little bit worried that I could still find the energy to do that six, seven, eight times a week. But she was like, yeah, definitely. And then in the audition, it was a beautiful audition. And just I felt yes, it's just right.

I know that I'm just in the right place. And then when I got it, and we got into rehearsals, it was crazy, because I could remember almost every step. And it had been seven years since I'd done the last show, and I could still do every step. It was crazy.

[22:40] Dominik Hees: And did they keep it the same as what you did on the tent tour? Or did they add more? Did they add you into more dance, have much more experience in your career? Is it the same thing? Or is there much adjustments? I think it was 98% the same. Small things in the ball had changed. Some steps had changed. Some steps were added. But then the number, the Rum Tum Tugger number, was basically 100% the same.

[23:11] Dominik Hees: And then I'm assuming the Mistoffelees stuff is all pretty similar, too? Yeah, I mean, in the tent tour, we had 270 degree audience. So it was naturally changed a little bit. The formations were changed more into the round. And in Vienna, we had a flat stage. So yes, it was a bit different. But for me, the steps that I had to learn and the lines that I had to sing and the ways that I had to go roughly were exactly the same.

[23:46] Dominik Hees: Okay. What is it like doing it? You said it's seven years later. Is it the same? I mean, obviously, it's maybe a little harder because you're a little older, or maybe it's a little easier. What was it like stepping back into something that you know so well with that kind of gap in between?

[24:05] Dominik Hees: It was actually much easier.

[24:45] Dominik Hees: In stillness. I think much about performing is trusting the stillness and the containment of energy. And back then I was just like a whirlwind, like a hurricane. I always wanted to be a hurricane on stage. And then in this production, 2019, I found a more, what I said earlier, like a sexy, seductive, easy, cool and still way of performing this. And I think that worked very well in that time. I wouldn't say I should have done it like this before. It was right the way I did it before. And then it felt right to change that energy. Because you change as a performer. So it was a different version. It was a different version of the Rum Tum Tugger with the same steps. Does having a child and being a father change how you approach the, as Gillian Lynn's telling you, to how you're shaking your little Rum Tum Tugger all over the place?

Does the pre-kid versus post-kid version differ? Yeah. I mean, having a child changes everything. Now I'm playing Beauty and the Beast. We're opening next Friday. And I feel now that so many emotions that I was always struggling to approach on stage, to really feel them and let them out, was always like a struggle, like sadness or shame, was always a struggle. And now that I have a child, it's so easy to get to this. Like, for example, crying on stage was always really hard for me to genuinely feel that sadness or what makes you cry. And now I have to be careful not to cry in scenes. And I think it's because I have a child and the emotional toolbox has expanded and it has shifted a little bit to a more, yeah, paternal.

Do you say paternal? Yeah. And like, you know, like, yeah, that has changed a lot. Like the relationship to Grizabella also has had changed for me in that time. When I was young, when I was 21, I would always just see her as a dirty prostitute and just, you know, no interest at all. And I was always I was angry that she would take the attention. You know, I was fighting for attention against Grizabella. And when we did it in Vienna, then that was very different. That energy was very different towards her.

[28:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I want to talk about relationships, because this is a part that is with Tugger. It is pretty open ended in a sense. Like there's I think the things that are fairly agreed upon are that Munkustrap is your brother, Old Deuteronomy is your father, and then the rest is kind of open ended. And I would love to hear your take on a couple of them, because I have heard versions where Grizabella could be Tugger's mom, and that might just be some of the staging of where they leave in the beginning. I've also heard a lot of different interpretations of the Mistoffelees relationships, from dating to best friends to all kinds of other pieces. And then Bombalurina is the other kind of big one. So how did you play those three relationships? And you talked a little bit about how the Grizabella one changed, but was it different from the tent tour to Vienna?

[29:03] Dominik Hees: Yeah, I think all the relationships were different in both productions. In the first production, our Mistoffelees was Mark John Richardson, who is a legend, who has played that character 5000 times, I think, in so many different countries. And these rehearsals that I had with him and Gillian Lynn, they will stay with me forever. I was so inspired as a young guy. And naturally, because he was so confident and so elegant. And there my relationship to Mistoffelees was, I was in awe with him, you know, it was basically, hey, I know this guy, and he's the master of the magic, and maybe he can help us. And when he performed, I was just in awe and like, wow. And then in the Vienna production, we had a very young performer, and I was the mature guy.

And it was almost like a coach. I felt like a coach. I was like, you know, you can do it, you can do it. And with Grizabella, as well, just what I said, I had a very hostile relationship with her in the first production, no relationship actually at all. And then in the second production, there was a much warmer feeling I had towards her, and I wasn't as hostile to her. And I never thought of her being my mom. I never did that. I was just, you know, Chrissie Cartwright, she told that beautiful story about a lady who would, she would always see in, I don't know what station it was, maybe Victoria station. Every day when she went to work, she saw that homeless woman sitting on the stairs, and nobody was looking at her.

And she would kind of see Grizabella as somebody who has been, who's just left out or once was part of society, but now is just like an invisible, an invisible person, you know, nobody cares about that soul anymore. And, and I felt that much more when I was, when I was older, that how lives can, how lives can just go down the drain, you know, and, and that sadness. I felt much more sadness and, and empathy for Grizabella. And with Munkustrap, it was always, I played the first one played with Jack Ribaldi, who was also a legend. And basically, I think my personal, my personal relationship with them, with those performers, and the way they, they treated me, like supportive and, and showing me know the tricks and how to do this and how to do that.

It trans, it, it, it determined what my relationship on stage was with them, you know. And, and in the second time we did it, I had established in musical theatre, I had a great career. And I had done the show before. And it was more like, yeah, it was my, it was my time to, to, to be the father a little bit, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So that clown energy wouldn't work for me anymore. You know, it was more like, yeah, like a sexy, crazy guy. And with Munkustrap, that brotherly, winding up energy was not so strong as it was in the first, first production. And also with Bombalurina, like in my first production, it was like a, like a little boy who was trying to make out with a hot mature woman, you know, like, trying and trying and she was very, she was very dominant.

And, and, and making me feel like, yeah, she, she made me feel like a little boy. And then in the second, in the second production, it was more something that we, yeah, we had, we had the same energy. And there was like a mutual, a mutual sexy energy, like a wanting energy.

[34:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it is, it is kind of fascinating because of how the age or just the life stages can change perceptions on this show so much. So it's like you're, when you're younger, you're in, if the, maybe the Bombalurina is older than you, you're playing it differently. And it's honestly a big reason of why my show exists is I saw such young Grizabellas that there's this like belief of like is amazing of a performer they are. And as much as they're, you know, putting that kind of worn out view, it is a little harder to suspend the disbelief that they're, you know, they're on the, the doorstep of death. But I am curious, you've done seven years between, we're right around the seven year mark since you finished. Are you, there's another Rum Tum Tugger under your mist here in the next year or two?

[35:03] Dominik Hees: Oh my God. I think I will not play the Rum Tum Tugger again. No, you're ready for Gus. And I have to say the Vienna production also, that was COVID time and I stayed again with the show for three years and it was on and off. And I think, I think now I can really say I have, I have had my journey with that character and it will probably forever be the part that I felt the most home in where I could just express who I am and what I can do. It's, it's, yeah, I am so, I have, I have a photo with Gillian Lynn in the rehearsal studio in Dusseldorf. I have a photo of Chrissie Cartwright in, in Vienna at a, like an event, a press event. And I have a photo with, with Trevor Nunn at the opening night. And those three pictures, they are, they, they are together in a box that I have, that I keep. And it's, it's, it's, it's always going to be a very emotional and probably the most important thing that happened in my, in my career, that show.

[36:06] Mike Abrams: Wow. Wow. I still think you can come back as Gus and then maybe you'll get the, you got to get an Andrew Lloyd Webber photo.

[36:12] Dominik Hees: I, I don't know who it was, but I listened to one Rum Tum Tugger and he also said, there's only one, uh, one character I can go back to and that's Gus. And I feel the same. I feel in 10 or 20 years, I, I will audition for Gus.

[36:26] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. So there's, there's still a Jellicle future. I mean, you're, you're, you're in the Jellicle tribe.

[36:30] Dominik Hees: Yeah. Yeah. I love Gus.

[36:32] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. Let's, um, let's do some rapid fire here.

[36:39] Dominik Hees: So if you could play one character, male, female, any night, one night, who are you going on as?

[36:46] Dominik Hees: Um, I think Grizabella is a killer role. Um, just as like the Rum Tum Tugger, you have to work even less, you earn more and you're the star of the show and you have that beautiful song. Um, and I think Grizabella is what, what, um, I also heard you talk about

[37:08] Dominik Hees: My knowledge is that it was Trevor Nunn's idea to take that character into the piece, which was too dark for the children's poem book. But he said that we need that character throughout the show that we connect with and that we follow and that we have like an anchor point so people stay interested in what's going to happen in the end. And I think Grizabella would be the female character that I would love to play. If I would be a very good dancer, maybe Bombalurina. That's also a really cool character. And then a male character would be Gus. I think Gus is such a beautiful character. And that opening second act was always beautiful. I love it.

[38:06] Mike Abrams: Okay. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats from a personality standpoint? So who do you want to hang out with or who's going to bug you? And I'm asking all these from the Dominik perspective, not the Tugger perspective.

[38:16] Dominik Hees: Yeah. Dominik perspective. I think, I mean, Skimbleshanks is probably very far away from my personal character. Like very controlling and very organized and very correct. You know, that's basically the opposite of what I am, personally. And what you say, female character? Who's your favorite? Who would you want to hang out with?

[38:48] Dominik Hees: The Rum Tum Tugger I would hang out with. I mean, my version of the Rum Tum Tugger, at least, I would hang out with. I would try to portray him as somebody that I would like to hang out with. I think he's genuinely a cool guy. And he's fun. And then also, he's very important in the show because he has the idea to bring Mistoffelees, who then brings back Old Deuteronomy. So basically, without the Rum Tum Tugger, you know, the show would end very sadly.

[39:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah, incredibly important.

[39:40] Dominik Hees: I also feel from first act to second act, he changes to a more responsible side. You know, in the beginning, he just messes up everything and creates chaos. But then in the second act, he becomes more loving. Then when Old Deuteronomy comes back, he cuddles up with him, and you see the loving side and the warm side of him. So yeah, I think he's a great guy.

[40:25] Mike Abrams: Okay. Favorite song in the show?

[40:29] Dominik Hees: Oh, favorite song. I'd say, I'd say "Macavity." Parts of the Jellicle Ball are amazing, I think, music-wise. What's this section called? You know, every section has a name.

[40:53] Mike Abrams: I do know that, because I learned that the airline one changes depending on what country it's set in. So yeah, the national airline. So that was one of the fun little tweaks I learned. Was it different in Germany versus Vienna?

[41:12] Dominik Hees: It was probably Lufthansa, maybe? Because it was American Airlines in the US, and then I heard it was something else in London.

[41:18] Mike Abrams: I think you're right. I can't really remember. I mean, also, I was never part of this section. But my ex-girlfriend, who was dance captain in the show, she would probably be like, "Oh, Dominik, how can you not remember this?" Yeah, no, I can't remember. But there are parts in the Jellicle Ball that I find amazing, amazing orchestra music. And then for me, Rum Tum Tugger, to sing Rum Tum Tugger, the ad-libbing in the end was also great. But then "Memories" is probably the most beautiful song.

[41:55] Mike Abrams: I always like to ask one fun one. And since you said that your 2010 Rum Tum Tugger was more boy band, I've thought a lot about this, because this was a lot of my first interpretation of this show. But if you could make a boy band of the Jellicle Cats, who's your boy band? It's obviously Tugger, but who are you adding to your boy band?

[42:12] Dominik Hees: Yeah, definitely. Mungojerrie has to be part of it. I think Munkustrap could be in the boy band, too. He would be something like Kevin was for the Backstreet Boys. You know, more like the mature guy. And then who should be in it? Yeah, Mistoffelees could be in it, more on the dancing side of things. Then we have four already. So let's take another one. Skimbleshanks cannot be in the band, for sure.

[42:50] Mike Abrams: No, he's managing your band.

[42:59] Dominik Hees: Yeah, he's the manager or the bus driver or the train driver for it.

[43:05] Mike Abrams: And Bustopher Jones is funding you.

[43:12] Dominik Hees: Bustopher Jones is funding. Yes, that's great. That's good. I think there's two choices left. And they're the younger characters. You know, actually, we could take Macavity, because every boy band needs the bad boy.

[43:22] Mike Abrams: I didn't think about Macavity. You could do an Alonzo or Tumblebrutus.

[43:28] Dominik Hees: Yeah, Tumblebrutus. Yeah, that's a good choice. Tumblebrutus is a good choice. I like Macavity, though. You do need the edge to the boy band a little bit.

[43:38] Mike Abrams: My final question is the most important question I ask everybody. So I have argued at length, I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So I want to hear who is Dominik's Jellicle choice and why.

[43:52] Dominik Hees: Well, for that, first, we need to determine what is the Heaviside Layer.

[43:59] Mike Abrams: I agree.

[44:03] Dominik Hees: If it is a new life to be born as a different soul and getting the chance for a fulfilling life, then there actually is no other choice than Grizabella. If the Heaviside Layer is like an award that you earn because you've done great things, I would probably say Gus should get it or Mr. Mistoffelees because he brought back Old Deuteronomy.

[44:41] Mike Abrams: So what is your interpretation of it? What's your answer?

[44:45] Dominik Hees: Well, my interpretation is that the Heaviside Layer is reserved for souls that for some reason have gone away, that their life was miserable. And it's like a second chance. It's a reincarnation and getting a second chance to try again, something that we will never, never have a second chance to build a life. That's why we're struggling so much with life, because we know we only have this one chance and it's a lot of pressure. But if you would get a second chance to live again and to be a different version of you, I think it should be Grizabella.

[45:36] Mike Abrams: OK, OK. So I agree with that. I think where I've argued against is I just I had a different interpretation of the Heaviside Layer. And it's interesting because like you saying that right up front, I think is exactly the root. And a lot of times when I would argue with people early on in the show, that is the difference. Like that is the like we have a fundamental difference of what we believe that ending is. And that is so beautiful.

[46:07] Dominik Hees: Yeah, it's great. I think it's one of the best parts about the show is, yeah, we've talked about all these different versions of you doing it seven years different and you're doing the same character, a lot of the same steps and a slightly different interpretation of the personality and the relationships. And if someone saw it in 2010 in Germany and then in 2019 in Vienna, they're probably not noticing those dramatic differences. But it makes it for you as a performer. It makes it for the superfans to have something to listen to. And I love that about the show. I think it's one of the best parts about this musical is you have that ability to do that.

[46:38] Dominik Hees: Yeah. And I think especially in musical theater, things always have to be very clear, obvious, readable. You know, there's typecasting so that we see a person and we already know what's going to happen. You know, it's always very explained and very definite and clear what wants to be told. And in acting, I think it can be very different. And in dance, it can also be very different. And I think that's the beauty of the show, that there is no definite version of characters. There's no definite version of when Grizabella goes up on the tire and children are like, "Where's she going? What's happening?" And that's imagination. That's what art is about, actually. And that's probably one of the reasons why it's such a successful show, because it just doesn't put something on you. It just makes you interpret and everybody has a different feeling about it. And that's great.

[48:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's why it works. It's why it's still going, 45, nearing in on 50 years later. Well, this has been so fun. How can people stay in touch with you on social media and Beauty and the Beast and all the other things going on in your career?

[48:15] Dominik Hees: Yeah, I mean, social media, you can find me. And if you are in Vienna, come and see our amazing show, Beauty and the Beast. I have to say, it's something that I have an excitement about, which I didn't have for a long time. It's an amazing show. It's an amazing team. The work was so satisfying and so beautiful. And now we're in previews, and my family also saw it, and they all say, you can see every detail. It's so good. And I wish for everybody who's in Austria and Vienna, come and see Beauty and the Beast. It's a really, really, really beautiful show.

[49:00] Mike Abrams: Awesome. We'll link how to get tickets, too. So it'll be in the description. But this has been so fun. Thank you again for coming on.

[49:08] Dominik Hees: Thank you so much.

[49:10] Mike Abrams: And thanks for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died. The podcast breaks down the Cats atrophy. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and listen to podcasts. Follow us on social media at thewrongcatdied.com or check our website, thewrongcatdied.com.