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[0:00] Tess Marshall: Hey, I'm Tess Marshall and welcome to The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales.

[0:11] Alan Seales: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales. That is me, as always. I'm Alan Seales and our guest today is Tess Marshall, who, as of the time of me recording this intro, just made her Broadway principal debut as Celine Dion on Broadway, on Titanic on Broadway. Oh my god, I literally just came back from seeing her and could not love her anymore. Her performance is incredible. If you had not told me, if I had not known that this was her debut as Celine on Broadway, I would have been like, oh, she's been doing this forever. It's tremendous. She did a great job. Anyway, so that just happened in between recording the episode and me recording this intro. And now about this episode, what I love about it is the conversation is how we get into the nitty gritty of what actually takes to be a leader within the company. She's the dance captain, so she has to keep that going along inside while also covering all the female roles. And let's see, so she stepped into Celine Dion, of course, last night as I am recording this now, as I said, but she has a perspective on the show that very few people get to see because she gets to watch it and be in it and do all of the other roles periodically. And she's gone on for several of the other roles already, I believe. She shares the crazy story about when she and the cast performed on the Today Show, they had to be there like five in the morning and that was the day of the Tony nominations. So they found out they were nominated and then immediately had to perform. That was crazy. But goodness, I mean, the chance that led her to where she is, she hated math class. She walked out after a bad math class experience, literally walked down the hall, found her high school chorus, and that just completely changed her entire trajectory. And, you know, she and I get into a little self-diagnosed ADHD, how to process our own doom piles and the catharsis of recording a solo breakup album in Nashville on the very microphone used by Kelly Clarkson. I mean, gosh, Tess is smart and funny and just really grounded and has a wonderful look at what it means to embrace your own kookiness across film, TV, stage, everything. So follow me on social media. You know what to do. Leave a rating, leave a review if you haven't done so in a while. It helps the podcast grow. I can't say this enough. You can watch the video version of this on Spotify and Patreon. And now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Tess Marshall.

[3:07] Tess Marshall: 5'11 and a half.

[3:08] Alan Seales: 5'10? No, you're not. You're 5'9, because if you were 5'10, you would say you were 5'11.

[3:14] Tess Marshall: Okay. All right. Do you want me to cut that?

[3:17] Alan Seales: No, it's good.

[3:20] Alan Seales: We have an amazing guest today with credits that include the NBC series Ordinary Joe, the feature film Beauty and Poverty, and the last two years as a swing and dance captain with Titanic Off-Broadway, and then near the end of that run stepped into the role of Celine Dion. And now has transferred to Broadway with the show, which is now Tony-nominated. Tess Marshall, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[3:44] Tess Marshall: Thank you so much. Tony-nominated is crazy.

[3:48] Alan Seales: What was the energy?

[3:48] Tess Marshall: That's the first time I've heard it out loud.

[3:49] Alan Seales: What was the energy? Oh, wait. You were off yesterday.

[3:52] Tess Marshall: We were on yesterday. We're in a strange schedule at the moment. Today is our off day.

[3:56] Alan Seales: I thought today was Thursday.

[3:58] Tess Marshall: Okay. So you had a show yesterday after the nominations. How was that?

[4:02] Tess Marshall: It was electric. It was so cool.

[4:04] Alan Seales: Boogie, boogie, boogie?

[4:05] Tess Marshall: Yeah, boogie, boogie, boogie. It was amazing. So we all found out, we performed on the Today show yesterday morning. So the onstage cast was called at like five o'clock in the morning, and what noms came out at about 8:30 for best musical and best lead actress in a musical, which were the ones we were really waiting on. And then they were going to have to perform right after we knew whether or not we were nominated. So tensions were a little high. Everyone has had the best attitude you could possibly have. I can't imagine the stress and anxiety I would feel if I were like performing in a sparkly dress waiting to know if I were nominated or not. But they found out just before. And of course, it was good news all around. Marla was nominated. Titanic was nominated. And then they performed on the Today show. And then, yeah, we all went home and went to sleep and came back and did a show for an audience that was like just on fire and so excited. It was amazing. I want to say I can't believe it, but I can because I've believed in this show for such a long time. But it's surreal to be part of an original Broadway company in the first place and then to be nominated. It's huge. It feels like a dream come true and total bucket list moment and kind of surreal, if I'm honest. Really special.

[5:16] Alan Seales: Oh, I'm sure. I mean, we were talking before we started recording just about the journey of Titanic, and you're obsessed with it from a production standpoint, right?

[5:25] Tess Marshall: Yeah. Fascinated.

[5:27] Alan Seales: Fascinated because there's no one path anything takes to get to Broadway, and there's no one type of show that belongs on Broadway.

[5:34] Tess Marshall: Amen. That is the truth. I think commercial theater in the last couple of years has really opened my eyes to what's possible financially and feasibly. And that's not always synonymous with what New Yorkers and audiences are wanting to see. So it's been really, really cool to see something that was so grassroots and really, it's a rags to riches story. Born in a basement.

[6:01] Tess Marshall: Born in LA in a Starbucks.

[6:02] Alan Seales: The show, not any of the characters.

[6:03] Tess Marshall: Not, yeah. Nobody was born in a basement, except there is an Irish baby that is in steerage.

[6:09] Alan Seales: Deborah Cox is like—

[6:10] Tess Marshall: Deborah Cox is, yeah, throwing around.

[6:11] Alan Seales: Like a sack of potatoes.

[6:14] Tess Marshall: So it's just been really special to see something so original and so off the cuff get its flowers in this way. And now with a Tony, now I'm like, really, truly just to be elevated pretty much as high as you can be. And to have been a part of it for so long is just amazing. I'm honored.

[6:30] Alan Seales: It's amazing. Well, how did you first get connected with it?

[6:33] Tess Marshall: I saw it. So I had some friends who saw the show—

[6:36] Alan Seales: In the basement of Gristini's.

[6:37] Tess Marshall: In the basement of Gristini's.

[6:39] Alan Seales: Right.

[6:39] Tess Marshall: And—

[6:40] Alan Seales: The old asylum theater.

[6:41] Tess Marshall: Yes.

[6:42] Alan Seales: The old UCB theater.

[6:42] Tess Marshall: The old UCB. And a friend of mine, we had dinner and they sat me down too, my friends, and they were like, okay, listen, I know this is crazy. I feel bad telling you that the show that's right for you is currently in a basement, but you do need to go in for this. This is right for you. And I was like, okay, well, now I have to go see it. So I didn't get to see it until it transferred to Off-Broadway. And I went with my mom and I remember watching the show and just feeling so seen by this piece of musical theater. For such a long time, I was feeling disillusioned by the industry. I felt like I had to fit into a box of ... Anything that's being written that you're not writing yourself or creating yourself is something you do have to find a way to fit into or be right for or be the right type for, et cetera. So I was constantly being met with just a little bit of a head cock, like, hmm, I don't really quite know what to do with you. You're tall, you're weird, you're quirky and offbeat, but we want you to fit in this ingenue, but we're going to put you in a character heel and you're going to be really freaking tall. You're going to be six feet tall, you're going to be six feet tall, which really just pissed me off in a lot of ways. And eventually, I was just kind of like, I'm tired. This is tiring. I'm constantly trying to be something I'm not and I just want to be me. And I had a dream of being able to just step into something that felt like I could really be the weirdest parts of myself. And I firmly believe that the most marketable part of an actor is the part they're trying to hide. And it is only when we embrace, ah, this is who I am and this is how I roll, things start to open up for you. And then people become in tune with the work that you want to do based on how you're showing up, when you're showing up authentically, and all of a sudden these doors open. And then other people want to be like you. And then other people want to fit in your box. Oh, the cycle. That's what it is. So anyway, I saw Titanic, long story short, I saw Titanic and I felt really seen. I thought, I'm not seeing boxes here. I'm seeing the weirdest, most authentic parts of people represented on stage in this way, singing down. And that was what I wanted to do. So I was like, I have to, I have to be in the show. I have to be in the show. So I got an audition for it. I was doing a contract out of town, got a final call back. The show wouldn't let me. I had an understudy. She had been put in. I actually fired an agent over it because there was a miscommunication there. I was like, got to go. And ended up having to wait six more months for the next audition. I was so upset. I could feel it in my bones. I was like, I'm just supposed to do this. Got an audition for the Celine Dion replacement and Jackie Burns got it. Heard and understood. Heard and understood. Very good friend of mine. Love her so much. Got to do it with her then. And then a couple months later was called in again for the same role that I couldn't go to the final callback for when the position had opened again and got it. And then I was with it for a year and 10 months. Swing, Dance Captain. Show closed in June of 2025. I was like, great. Wow. So special. I did it. In December, there was a rumor. It was coming to Broadway. I was like, this is crazy. There's been rumors before. I don't think so. And then, wouldn't you know it, by the end of December, got a text from my director. It was like a little, made me question, why is he wishing me Merry Christmas this way? With a little wink and a kissy face. What's going on? And then the next day, I was on the train, on the Amtrak back to New York after spending Christmas with my family. Answered the FaceTime in the quiet car. He's like, do you want to come to Broadway? I was like, no. Crying. The woman next to me is like, are you okay? And I'm like, yes. And he's like, what is going on? I was like, I'm so sorry. And then I texted him later. I'm like, I'm so sorry. That was the most anticlimactic call ever. But here we are. And now we're Tony nominated. And I'm with it. And I can't believe it.

[10:22] Alan Seales: You should have just screamed out in the car. I'm going to Broadway, bitches. I don't care about your fucking quiet car.

[10:30] Tess Marshall: I know. Quiet car be damned. It was so fun. I'm going to Broadway. It's a good story. It's a good story.

[10:33] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, did the lady next to you, did you tell her what was going on?

[10:36] Tess Marshall: No. She had absolutely no interest in my life. She was probably—

[10:38] Alan Seales: It's okay. She probably goes and tells a story of like, I was next to this person on the quiet car. She was losing it.

[10:41] Tess Marshall: And she was losing it. And she wouldn't tell me what was going on.

[10:45] Alan Seales: I didn't know what to do. I just sat there. And I'm like a licensed therapist and a vocal coach. I'm a licensed therapist. And I could have totally helped her out.

[10:50] Tess Marshall: I really could have used that in that moment. I was like, help me process this. And then my family was busy because it was still over the holiday and no one was available. And I was in the quiet car. And I was so close to Pennsylvania where my family's from. It wasn't anywhere near New York. So I just had to sit in silence by myself for hours before I could tell anyone.

[11:08] Alan Seales: That's so terrible.

[11:10] Tess Marshall: Yeah. It was awful. But like, fine. It was fun. It was fun. It was fun.

[11:12] Alan Seales: I got to have a moment by myself and then call all my people.

[11:15] Alan Seales: Well, I think maybe you can just go like, start auditioning for Elphabuzz. And then you're going to come like, well, you don't need to anymore. But I'm saying like, the Elphabuzz to Celine Dion pipeline is strong.

[11:25] Tess Marshall: It is strong. We've had lots of Wicked Girlies.

[11:27] Alan Seales: Yes.

[11:27] Tess Marshall: Lots of Wicked Girlies. Yeah, you're right. That is something that has been pretty consistent.

[11:33] Alan Seales: Because Celine Dion ain't no easy thing to sing.

[11:35] Tess Marshall: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. No, it's a special skill set for sure.

[11:41] Alan Seales: And I mean, when you first started rehearsing for this and like, I guess even preparing for the audition though, like how much of your goofy were you comfortable bringing in your weirdness? Because you can't be normal.

[11:52] Tess Marshall: No.

[11:53] Alan Seales: I mean, like Marla personally, this is just who she is.

[11:56] Tess Marshall: Yeah. She's a kook.

[11:58] Alan Seales: She's a kook. And I love her for it.

[12:00] Tess Marshall: Me too.

[12:04] Alan Seales: And like you said, you embrace what makes you kooky.

[12:04] Tess Marshall: Right.

[12:05] Alan Seales: And now everybody's trying to emulate that.

[12:06] Tess Marshall: Right.

[12:06] Alan Seales: But so like, I guess, how does that work? Because the role is so unique to, I guess to whoever is Celine, right? The show is, and I saw you as Celine.

[12:19] Tess Marshall: Did you really?

[12:19] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[12:20] Tess Marshall: Uh-oh.

[12:21] Alan Seales: Because I came to see Elliot Maddox when you went in.

[12:23] Tess Marshall: Yes. Oh, he was so great as Victor Garber.

[12:25] Alan Seales: And you were our Celine.

[12:27] Tess Marshall: Yeah, wow.

[12:27] Alan Seales: Loved you, by the way.

[12:28] Tess Marshall: Thank you so much. Thank you.

[12:29] Alan Seales: And it was a totally different Celine, but still just as good.

[12:32] Tess Marshall: Thank you.

[12:33] Alan Seales: So like when you are working with Tai and working with the others, like what do they tell you about trying to emulate versus just making it your own?

[12:44] Tess Marshall: Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think it shifted over time, because in the off-Broadway production, the show wasn't frozen for very, very long. There was a little more freedom there.

[12:52] Alan Seales: We hadn't hit the iceberg bitch yet.

[12:54] Tess Marshall: We hadn't hit the iceberg bitch yet. Obviously, we're frozen on Broadway. So it shifted after we froze off-Broadway. So for a long time, it was a little bit more of like a personal pan pizza. It was like, whatever kind of floats your boat.

[13:08] Alan Seales: Call back to Pizza Hut.

[13:10] Tess Marshall: Call back to Pizza Hut. Whatever floats your boat in terms of like, you know, the kind of little idiosyncrasies that come into it, but like hit your marks and be in the light and be where you're supposed to be. And I haven't gotten the opportunity to play it yet on Broadway. So when I do, well, we'll see what the notes are. But I think in general, the rule of thumb is Celine is, the reason this show works is because everyone on stage is obsessed with Celine. Everyone loves her and truly embraces all of the kookiness and bizarre nature.

[13:39] Alan Seales: And everybody mentioned is loved.

[13:46] Tess Marshall: Is loved. So loved.

[13:48] Alan Seales: Everyone is made fun of with love.

[13:51] Tess Marshall: It's all with love. We always say like, it is a love letter to Celine. So because I am obsessed with Celine Dion, I've watched like every interview and everything she's ever done. So a lot of her has permeated just my sensibilities when it comes to singing her music and whatever. And luckily, before I auditioned, that was already the case. I was just obsessed with her. So to answer your first question, my audition was wild because I was asked to do like a full improv as Celine Dion in my audition, which is nerve wracking to say the very least, because, you know, speaking in her voice with her facial expressions on words that aren't scripted, that haven't been rehearsed, was wild. Improv, like true improv. Yeah. Which is really helpful, turns out, because there is a whole improv section in the show. And now I think it's mostly about Tess loving Celine, playing Celine and paying homage to this person while enjoying it. And I think, too, over the course of time, I used to sing Celine really pretty much as Celine as I possibly could. And a lot of that has kind of, I think, shifted into like higher parts of my register. I'll kind of pop into something that's just easier and more comfortable on my instrument and then kind of fall back into those back French vowels because it does create some habits.

[15:12] Alan Seales: Paint me like one of your French vowels.

[15:14] Tess Marshall: Yeah, exactly. It does create some habits that then have to be kind of beaten out of you to play anything else. And I do cover everyone.

[15:21] Alan Seales: Oh, do you?

[15:22] Tess Marshall: I do cover everyone.

[15:23] Alan Seales: All the women or do you cover like Jim Parsons, too?

[15:26] Tess Marshall: Hilarious. I would die. If I was Jim Parsons cover, I would.

[15:31] Alan Seales: That's a good question. I cover Celine, Rose, Molly and all of the background vocalists, including the male background vocalist.

[15:37] Tess Marshall: Yo, that's a lot.

[15:38] Alan Seales: And I'm dance captain. So really, I know everyone's.

[15:42] Tess Marshall: So there's five tracks plus dance captain. Six tracks.

[15:44] Alan Seales: Celine, Rose, Molly, BGV, BGV, BGV. Six tracks plus dance captain.

[15:48] Tess Marshall: Damn, girl.

[15:50] Alan Seales: And do you enjoy that or was it easier? Is it easier to go on a Celine eight times a week or to easier just to stand by and have the anxiety that you could go on for any of these?

[15:59] Tess Marshall: I think it's easier. I think it's I think it's easier to perform eight times a week. It's easier to go on and just like do the things like do one track. You know what you're showing up to do.

[16:06] Alan Seales: Yeah. Waiting in anticipation is my least favorite part of the job. Otherwise, it can be really rewarding and fun. And I do like that things kind of you're kind of on your toes and things are different day to day. I like that. I get bored easily. So that's nice. But every once in a while, I'm like, man, it'd be really nice to just like be on for eight shows and know what that looks like.

[16:25] Alan Seales: You went on for Rose a few weeks ago, didn't you?

[16:28] Tess Marshall: No, I was on for background vocalist.

[16:30] Alan Seales: Oh, that's right. Yeah, because I think Brie was telling me our fan Breezes Christ Superstar was telling me she was going to see you.

[16:37] Tess Marshall: Yes, yes, she was there.

[16:38] Alan Seales: Yeah. And I had said, yes, I'm because that's when she had just introduced us.

[16:42] Tess Marshall: Amazing. Yes. Okay, great. Yeah, the timeline is crazy. The last couple months have been absolutely insane with previews and tech and opening and everything else. But we're in it now, which is great. It feels like there's a little bit of a sigh of relief.

[16:56] Alan Seales: You had the, I will put in parentheses, displeasure of going through the insane, you know, 12 out of 10 out of 12 days, like your tech schedule, your opening, and then you squeaked in. And of course, this is all on purpose, squeaked in under the Tony eligibility cut off because you wanted to get it right. And then now the show is going to get bazillions of attentions because this next month until the Tonys are just going to like amplify everything. So like the whole show doesn't get to rest even though you've opened.

[17:25] Tess Marshall: Right.

[17:25] Alan Seales: And so you've got another month of just like powering through it.

[17:29] Tess Marshall: Full force. Yeah. It definitely feels like marker after marker. I think like getting through previews was the first one because those 10 out of 12s into performances every day was really, just everyone's exhausted. And the mental acuity required to be able to make change, you know, when you're in an original show and new pages are being handed out every day, the task at hand is just massive.

[17:52] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[17:52] Tess Marshall: Changes are being made that are going into that show that night for a paying audience. And I think the misunderstanding about previews in the Broadway community is like, they're not billed as previews. We know they're previews, but they're just patrons who are excited to see this new show that's open. They don't know it's not open or frozen yet.

[18:10] Alan Seales: Well, people who know, know, but the rest of them, they're just like, oh, like less expensive tickets. I'm going to do, I'm going to go, I'm going to use that. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to the episode. During previews though, I mean, I'm interested about like the Broadway iteration of this versus, versus the old UCB theater versus Daryl Roth now versus St. James because like Eleanor Scott, I interviewed her. She was sitting right where you sat. And choreographer Eleanor Scott. Great.

[18:37] Tess Marshall: Tony nominated.

[18:42] Alan Seales: For Ragtime, baby.

[18:44] Tess Marshall: Oh my God.

[18:45] Alan Seales: I'm so happy for her.

[18:47] Tess Marshall: Yeah. Eleanor, like you as dams, dams, the dams captain.

[18:52] Alan Seales: The dam captain.

[18:53] Tess Marshall: The dams captain, her like, did much change between like really between the two different sets, the two stages.

[19:02] Tess Marshall: Yeah. And I would love, I, you know, we haven't had time to like sit down. I'd love to sit down and like chat with her about what vision was for what she wanted to change. What maybe changed just because it needed to because of the space or what, but I think she's done a brilliant job filling out the choreo for a stage this big. Cause moving from the Daryl Roth, I don't know who saw it at the Daryl Roth, but did everyone, everyone. Yeah. Everyone in New York, teeny, teeny, teeny tiny stage. And now we're at the St. James theater, which is like 1700 seats and it's deep and wide. That stage is big. I think they did a brilliant job filling out the stage with the set, but there's just more play space. And so, um, there's like two, two new dance breaks that weren't there before. Um, lighting of course helps, but which dance breaks were there? There is a, the river deep dance break is completely different now, which is very exciting. And now there's a drove all night dance break. Oh, right. The fans, the clack clack fans that used just to just be Victor Garber's solo. And now he gets back up. You're right. Yeah. Was integrated so seamlessly. Cause I saw it three or three times. I think maybe three, maybe four times off Broadway at Daryl. And I've seen it three on Broadway. Wow. Oh my gosh. I caught the heart of the ocean the other night. So not going to brag, but Marlon went right into my lap. It's hefty. It is. It's a hefty, it's got, yeah, it's got some, got some weight now.

[20:23] Tess Marshall: It's got to go. It's got to go some miles. Uh, no, I, it was interesting. The behind the scenes too. Cause, uh, Alejo the costume designer did my show play when playwrights kill. So Alejo, yeah. Alejo left Titanic to come up to Boston to, to open Boston with us. That's where he went. And then he was MIA for a couple of days. He was with me and then came back to open with you guys. So yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun. But he was showing me the behind the scenes of like the cost. Some of the costumes, especially for tight, the iceberg bitch were like 3D printed. Now like the technology that goes into all of this. It's just, it's definitely gotten a lift. It's just gotten an upgrade in a way that I think really, I think, I think the community was concerned that it wasn't going to translate from, from kind of the rag tag charm of the off Broadway production. Cause we were really held together with like cardboard and scotch tape, maybe. And then we moved to Broadway and everyone, I think not everyone, but those who doubted were like, this isn't going to work in a commercial space. Like it's just not going to. And I personally, as someone who watches the show, I mean, I've probably seen it now, I don't know, 25 times. Cause I'm noting and watching it, whatever. It totally works. It works. The costumes have elevated. The set has been elevated. The props have been elevated. They're like four times the size of what they were off Broadway, which is hilarious. Except for the Fisher price car, except for the, it is the same Fisher price car. Yeah. Still from like, before it came to Gristini, like forever and ever amen. They did hollow it out. So now it's a lot like, I didn't realize it was so heavy. And now it's just like, yeah. And they like sling it over their shoulders. Like before. No, if that wasn't set, you're not flinging that very quick. Okay. Yeah. Upgrades all around, but I think it totally works in this, in this huge theater in a way that surprises a lot of people.

[21:30] Alan Seales: All right. So you're from PA PA. North central. I'm from Williamsport, Pennsylvania. North central, south eastern Western side. Yeah. Yeah. North. Okay. So North. What city? I don't know if you know Williamsport, Pennsylvania. I don't know if you know little league baseball. I know of the concept of little league baseball. Okay. Well then you know what this is. The little league world series happens once a year in August for two weeks. That happens in my hometown. It's like our only claim to fame, but it's kind of a big one. Obviously I never made it that far. I didn't want to say it. Glad you got there on your own. Oh, you played, but you know, my little league team was not good. Not good. Uh, no, my, I don't even think my team won our, our like tiny little division or whatever. I'm from Wilkesboro, North Carolina, North Wilkesboro. Okay. Um, where our claim to fame are two things. One is that's where NASCAR was invented. Oh, okay. I mean, that's cool. So zoom, zoom. If you like to just drive in a circle for hours, go to my hometown. It's not for me. Okay. And if you, not for me. Uh, and if, uh, you eat Tyson chicken of any form, processed Tyson chicken. They have those frozen ones now with the little nuggets. Probably came from the manufacturing plant in my hometown. Those are really good. Put a little dollop of mustard on there. 10 o'clock at night. So I know I'm, I'll put an air quotes home when I'm driving. Like I either have to fly in from Charlotte, Greensboro or, or, uh, Raleigh. There's those are the three closest airports. Okay. Drive down, uh, I 40 to four 21. And then there's this, as soon as you hit the County line, you Matt, you go over this like foothill. And especially right now, this time of year in the spring, the wafting of chicken farms, chicken hits you chickens. If you know, chicken farms, you know, that smell it is indistinguishable from anything else.

[24:08] Tess Marshall: Welcome home.

[24:08] Alan Seales: I'm like, oh, yep. Yep. All right. If you get stuck on the highway behind a truck heading to the farm, you got chicken feathers and poop going into your air intake. Nice. For me, it's usually when I see the Amish that's I'm home. I see a horse and buggy. I had a stint at the Dutch apple, the Dutch Lancaster PA. Yep. So I know that is like Amish country Lancaster is like home base. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And Oh my gosh, they make the best baked goods. And everyone in like, in my, in my hometown, anytime they need work done on their houses or whatever, they hire the Amish because they work so hard and so fast. Yeah. These like modern day construction companies don't hold anything. They're like, we can do it there. You know, you get a quote and it's like, it's going to be this much and it's going to take four weeks and they're like, we'll do it in two for half. Yep. And it's done perfectly better. Yeah. That's all. I just love it. Okay. So grew up in PA and then what got you into performing? My mom was a singer is, is she's very much alive and well. My mom is a singer and, um, we, I grew up like doing my like church choir and church plays and whatever. And then in fifth grade, I played Annie curly red wig and everything. And I knew everybody's lines and I was so, I just loved it so much. I kind of got bit by the bug and my mom auditioned for it because your mom, because I loved, I loved singing and I just, I like enjoyed being in front of people. I was like always the girl who was like, yeah, like I was always like the kid who would, I would like go into my brother's room and stand on his bed and start making up a song that was like, I don't know, three hours long. He'd be like, please stop, please stop. And my parents would just be laughing. I just like love to entertain. Um, and then I remember distinctly, we would go to the beach one week every year and we would all be in the family car and we'd be listening to the radio and my mom would turn around and she would challenge me and my brother to not sing the melody, anything but the melody, just find a note that isn't the melody. And if you lose it, fine, just jump back and you find it again. So I, I like learned how to sing harmonies when I was like six years old in the back of my car, because I think she just, she knew that I loved it and it was, oh my God, it was painstaking. I remember, you know, it's never fun to not be good at something, but I, I just, when I, when I got it, I remember this feeling of like elation. Like I understood something about music that was hard and difficult and I like had conquered it. Of course I hadn't, I was six years old, but it was so fun. So by the time fifth grade rolled around, I had already just like loved to sing and tell stories and I had done like my church plays and things. Um, and then in, in middle school there was, I grew up in this wonderful, vibrant arts community for such a small town, but there was a school of music called the Uptown Music Collective and it was in conjunction with my public school. So it was like after school and you could go and you could get certificates in singing and piano and guitar and, and directing and tech if you wanted to. And I went and I learned so much about live performance. At that time I was like, this is, I'm obsessed with this. It wasn't until I was a junior in high school though, I failed a math test. I'd never failed anything in my life before. And I left, I walked out of the classroom, which was crazy. I just like left and I walked down a hallway and I heard some grade was in their like chorus class and I just sat in the hall and I was just listening to them. And then I thought, this is a subject in school. Like these kids are here because this is a subject in their curriculum. Maybe if I do that, I never have to take another math test. And that's how I decided to not be a lawyer and go to music school. So we can thank whoever your math teacher was for your Broadway career.

[27:54] Tess Marshall: Mr. Lee. You know what? He came to a gig of mine like years and years later, I was doing a rock gig somewhere and I was like, Mr. Lee. And he was like, I was just telling my friends that girl hated my math class. I was like, yeah, I really did. I don't know if you know the part that you played in my trajectory for my life, but like, thank you very much.

[28:14] Alan Seales: That is cool that he actually like realized that. He just let people walk out.

[28:21] Tess Marshall: Yeah. I guess I was such a good kid. So maybe it was just like, Ooh, something's really going on. I don't know, but I just left. Wow. Well, good on him. And letting you sit in the hall. That's, uh, that's actually cool.

[28:29] Tess Marshall: Yeah. It was, gosh, I remember in, um, middle school in middle school, it was sort of cool to be in chorus. And then the early in high school, it wasn't not cool anymore. And then once I got on the soccer team, junior, uh, sophomore year. So 10th grade, I was like, you know what? Screw it. I want to be, I want to sing again. And so I was doing, cause I was like, I had, I had soccer to kind of like level out the uncoolness of chorus. Uh, and then I felt cool in chorus because like some of the jocks came with me and I was like, the athletes are here. The athletes are singing in the chorus. Strength in numbers. Yeah, we're cool. We're cool. We're cool. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, all right. So then Mr. Lee, he's a 10th grade. I think it was 11th. Statistics seems like 11th, maybe. Maybe 10. It's around that time. Anyway. So then like at that point you have to say, all right, I'm going to school for this, or I'm going to do this professionally or whatever. Like that was it literally, you know, you just said, I'm going to go to chorus junior, senior year. And then that was it.

[29:19] Tess Marshall: Yeah. I, I had wanted to be an attorney. My dad is a phenomenal litigator. Um, and my whole life, like I was, you know, we grew up, my mom's like a gourmet cook and my dad's this like brilliant mind. And we would sit at the kitchen table and my mom and my brother are so artistic and creative and smart. And my dad is like, so logic minded and not creative at all. And so smart. And we would all just sit at the table and we would have debates about what do you think about this? Or this is what's happening in the world. What do you, you know, what do you think? And what would change your mind? Um, and it developed this like incredible, like psychological curiosity. I wouldn't say that I'm like, um, exceptionally curious person in other lanes in my life. Like if, you know, if, if you told me you can learn how to do this skill that, you know, is changed gentle to your career in some way, and it's not really going to help you, but like, are you, are you interested? I'd be like, no, I'm not interested, but I love that you love that. I don't care any, like I have lots of curious friends who'd be like, well, show me how to do that. What is it? I don't, that's not me, but as to how the human mind works as to like interpersonal connections and relationships and, and, um, challenges and debates. And why do you feel that way? And can I change your mind? And maybe you can change my mind. The sparring nature of my family dinner table lit me up, which now looking back is totally in line with being an actor and getting into characters and like getting to know people and, and being a dance captain and how to communicate with others and learning people's, you know, communication styles and all of that. Anyway, I digress all this to say, I, I had learned by about 11th grade that I had all of these pieces of this puzzle. And the only way it all made sense was to go do something creative. Um, and I did, and I was really, I was really fortunate. I know a lot of people don't have this experience, but I was never discouraged. My parents were, you know, they came from nothing, both of them and built this beautiful life in this really kind of, you know, normal suburban way. My dad had a really great job. My mom was a stay at home mom. And the idea of a kid going to like performance school was probably really crazy, but I never heard a word about it. It was like, I love that you want to do that. Let's figure out how to do that. Um, and we didn't have any like acting classes or, you know, I had a voice teacher, but it was mostly just like classical technique. And all of my training really came from that music school. And then just like self-discovery and school plays and school musicals. Um, and they like really encouraged me to do it. And I'm so glad they did. Cause I don't know who I thought I was trying to get into these crazy programs with like no training, but I danced when I was very young. Um, I did like tap jazz and ballet at Lori Welteroth studio. It was a really, really cool dance studio. Um, and then I quit to play soccer and I played soccer like my whole life and I was, I loved it. And I like had to pick and I, I really, I really did like little, little, you were dancing. I really did pick wrong. Yeah. I wish I had stayed in it more. I mean, over, over the course of my then like young adolescence and stuff, I would take classes every once in a while, but I wasn't in like a regimented dance program the way that I was before I was like 10.

[32:44] Alan Seales: How does one become the dance captain? Is that another thing that you're, did you have to audition for, or are you offered that just based on how good you are during the audition?

[32:48] Tess Marshall: Um, that's a good question. Uh, Titanic is not a heavy dance show, which is part of the reason for sure. Um, but I think I'm really good at zooming out. I think I just have, I have an ability to see the whole picture. Um, and I think I'm a really good communicator and I can certainly do the choreography. So I think a mixture of all of those things is, is kind of how, but did they, did they just bring everyone in and they're like, all right, raise your hand if you want to do it.

[33:19] Tess Marshall: No, no. Um, I think they saw my skills as well. Yeah. They were like, this makes sense. Um, which was great. And when I came into the production, I wasn't, I wasn't initially dance captain. There was another dance captain, Shawnee Meissner, and then she left the show. And when she left, obviously we needed a dance captain and, and everybody was like, yeah, you, which is great. All right. Yeah, that works. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so outside of this, uh, of the theater world, like we mentioned, like you've done TV and you've done film. And then I think you're also, you've got an EP that you're putting.

[33:54] Tess Marshall: Full length.

[33:58] Alan Seales: I've got a full length. Yes. Hopefully in July and yes, hopefully in July. What's the process with that? And again, long process. Um, what, I mean, why, why did you make this album at this time?

[34:08] Tess Marshall: Yeah, that's a great question. I, last summer, my birthday's on June 5th. It's coming up June 5th. Happy 25th birthday. Thank you so much. I'll be 25 forever until I die. Um, I went through a crazy breakup on my birthday last year. It was brutal. And I thought I was getting engaged and starting a whole new chapter of my life. And turns out it was not. And I left this relationship on my birthday on my, you know, this day that was supposed to be something it wasn't and went through a whole journey of just kind of feeling a little bit lost and in a season of reinvention and, Oh, my stomach's growling. Sorry. If you can hear that. Um, and so I, along the lines of feeling with, you know, before I saw Titanic feeling kind of disillusioned by the industry and feeling like I needed permission all the time to show up or be me or, you know, tell me that I can fit into this world. And in this space, I was feeling that all across my life, I was kind of like, you know, I had this plan to do this thing with this person and it didn't work out. And now what do I do and what do I want to do and how do I feel about it? I'm a creative person. I'm a writer. I've been writing forever. Um, and I decided I wanted to take control of something when in a season of feeling totally out of control in almost every way and own something and make something that was mine. Nobody else. I didn't need permission. I didn't need anybody else's input. And it was really is, I'm still going through it still in the process of going through like the mixes before the masters and everything, but feeling like I was in control of the narrative. I was going to make something good out of something really bad and find so much joy and creativity and freedom in it without asking permission from anyone else.

[35:32] Alan Seales: Is it what style is it?

[35:59] Tess Marshall: That's a good question. So, so to answer this question, I do have to tell you, I've been the lead singer of a rock band for 15 years and we have two albums out of our original music and it's classic rock. Um, like true Clyde frog, two words, Clyde frog, and really proud of it. Have been playing with those guys forever, have dated almost all of them. And we were just like, we love each other. We're just like this family. We've been making this music for so long. So I did know I had this in me because I've been writing with them for a long time. Um, and my music has classic rock influences, but it's really singer songwriter folk, classic rock. Um, it kind of just truly it's kind of an amalgamation of, of a lot of things, but it really just sounds like me to me. Um, I'm so excited to release it. I cannot wait. I like that. You can't pinpoint what it is because that goes back to what you're saying about like embrace what makes you unique. And so it's going to, yeah, it's going to be exclusively you. It sounds like me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get the Clyde frog guys to play on it or is it different?

[36:57] Tess Marshall: Yeah. So, so I'm very lucky. My, I have two, two guitarists. One of them, um, is the studio manager for star struck records in Nashville, which is one of like the premier recording studios in the nation. Um, and I did get to record there for free because he's amazing. Um, and then my other guitarist is producing the album. So he's like in studio with me while I'm down there, like singing on the mic that Kelly Clarkson recorded breakaway on, like she recorded at Kelly Clarkson's before you cheat. I mean, Carrie underwoods before she's crazy. It was very much like a pinch me moment. I can't believe this is happening in this way. Cause a lot of times when you make an album, it's like you're working on an interface and in private in your room or whatever. And this was very much like I'm going into the studio, going to Nashville, hiring a tech and, and doing it that way, which was really, really special and cool. And my bassist and drummer also played on a song. So the whole band is represented in this album in little ways. Um, yeah, I'm just, I'm, I can't wait. I'm so looking forward to it. And also I think it'll feel really cathartic to finally put it out because I've been holding it in here for a breakup album. Hell yeah. Oh yeah. I guess I didn't say that. Yeah. It's a breakup album. Sure is. Sure is. I feel great now, but there's a lot of stuff representative of how not great I was feeling. It's just cool. It's a moment in time. It's gotta be cathartic. It's gotta feel good. And I get the need as a creative person to have to build something. Yeah. You just gotta make something, gotta make something. Even if I'm not talking about what's bringing me down or up, whatever that is, I just have to make. Yeah. And that's, and with the tech background, that's how I leaned into podcasting and now leaned into, uh, the producing and the other things I'm doing. Cause I just, I have to make, cause I don't feel like whole at the end of the day. I totally understand that. I think I'm new to that understanding. I never really, I didn't ever think of myself really as like, a, a super, um, not create, I don't know if creative is the right word, but I, I didn't necessarily identify with like, I'm a maker, I'm a doer, I'm a creator until recently the last couple of years, which is so strange because again, I think it came with ownership of, of like being who you are and stepping into things wholly as opposed to trying to be something else. Um, that's kind of when I found, Oh, like my unique perspective and my voice and my, all the things that I bring that are uniquely me are what make me marketable and interesting and niche. And, um, I think it's really, it's, it's, this is a continuation of that in a way that it's just like pen to paper in a different way. Yeah. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to the episode. I've never understood the need for, I mean, I get why I was going to say understood the need for secrecy. I do understand the need for secrecy in creating projects. I, what I was going to, what I mean by that is I have a ton of ideas and I talk about them all the time to whoever will listen because I don't have enough time to do them myself. And I want somebody else who is smarter than me in some other form to be like, all right, I'm going to do this half as long as you do the other. Yeah. Inspire somebody to, to get involved. Yeah. So all the time. And as someone who now is self-proclaimed undiagnosed ADHD, I do really well with body doubling and I'm like, yeah, just like sit down with me and I don't care what you're doing. Do a puzzle. But just you being there, I'm like, yeah, just be there. I'm so productive if someone else is in the room.

[40:29] Tess Marshall: Yes. 100%. Yes. I am so not productive if I'm on my own. Exactly. If left to my own devices, I will rot. Yeah. I feel that way. I'm constantly like, hey, can, can we FaceTime? Can you, can I just like clean while we FaceTime or like, you know, with my producer, I'm like, I actually don't need a writing session with you right now, but can we just hop on and talk about a couple of things? And as soon as we do, I'm like, wait, wait, shh. It's like, yeah, the, the using somebody else's presence for motivation is, is totally, we are, we are ADHD. Do you have doom piles?

[41:03] Tess Marshall: Oh, three. I have two, three, four. I have five. I have five doom piles.

[41:11] Alan Seales: Yeah, cause it's, it's for my different hats that I wear. The producing hat, the podcasting hat, the engineering hat, and the, the home maintenance bill pay hat. And, uh, what's my fifth pile? I'll forget. Anyway, for those who don't know what a doom pile is, um, basically ADHD folks just stack a bunch of shit together that all makes sense. It all makes sense in one place.

[41:32] Tess Marshall: And you're absolutely not going to touch because the, the, the thought of processing it is so overwhelming. You just don't start, but you can keep adding until somebody is with you and you're like, Oh yeah, manageable. And you know what the most fear infuriating part about all of that is when you look at that pile, it feels absolutely insurmountable. There's no way I can start this cause I cannot finish it. By the time you get to it, it is a five minute task. Oh, I know. It takes five minutes and we are also more susceptible to the clutter being overwhelming. So when it's gone, we do better. We know this. We just can't do it. Nobody has diagnosed me. I've diagnosed myself. Oh yeah. We are totally, we're totally there. Uh, my therapist, what did she give me? She gave me once she, cause I had her, she evaluated me and she's like, you're definitely like on the spectrum somewhere of ADHD, not full blown ADHD. Um, so I forget what she gave me, what medicine it was, but anyway, it's the stuff that you have to take at like 7am because it, it's, it's like, I felt like I'm on prescribed cocaine. Okay. In a good way. Um, because I'm like, I'm alert the whole day. I'm focused the whole day.

[42:44] Tess Marshall: That kind of focus is I think the hardest part of it.

[42:48] Alan Seales: It is. It is. And if I don't, and I've, and I tell myself as the perfectionist, Oh shit, it's eight o'clock. I didn't take it early enough. I just can't take it today. So then I just go through the day and I don't take it.

[42:56] Tess Marshall: It's a, it's a medicine or it's a supplement.

[43:01] Alan Seales: It's a medicine. It's a prescription. Yeah. So you are ADHD. I guess. Yeah. So she was like my guy.

[43:08] Tess Marshall: And then in my forties now I've developed anxiety on top of it. I'm like, Oh God.

[43:11] Alan Seales: Well, we live in a really stressful place. So I've got, yeah.

[43:16] Tess Marshall: On top of all of, all of the things that are going to ale us because we're predisposed or whatever. We also live in New York city. Did you hear that firetruck 10 minutes ago?

[43:24] Alan Seales: Oh, I, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I hear, I live in downtown Brooklyn, so I hear it all the time.

[43:29] Tess Marshall: Yeah. It's overwhelming. I know, I know we think that we're desensitized.

[43:34] Alan Seales: No, because, because as soon as I go somewhere where I don't hear it, I'm like, Whoa, I can think I can like my whole, I can feel my body de-stressing like my neck just kind of, it just can't be good for us, but it just can't, it just can't be good for us. Anyway. Coming from, yeah. Like rural PA, I guess. Yeah. Like you probably go home to visit your parents and feel the same way. Yeah. It's like pitch black and you can see the stars and I love driving so much. Yeah, I do too. I love going to the grocery store in a car. The grocery store. I love the grocery store in a car. I love, um, going on walks in a residential neighborhood, walking in the street. Yes. Not in the sidewalk. Um, I love grass. I love when like dogs are just like off the leash, like running around. I just love that. There are a lot of things about suburban life that are like, that sounds good. And there are a lot of things about suburban life that I'm like, I'd rather die. I'd rather die. Yeah. You can't have both. Yeah. I've lived in Manhattan the whole time I've lived here though. So maybe, maybe Brooklyn would be, I just don't feel like I'm a Brooklyn girl. I don't know. I did not think I was a Brooklyn girlie until I went to Brooklyn.

[44:42] Alan Seales: And now you are a Brooklyn girlie.

[44:46] Tess Marshall: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like I'm right off Atlantic terminal so I can take any train here to midtown in 25 minutes, 30 minutes door to door. And if the trains are running, right. Yeah. It's almost like living in Manhattan.

[44:53] Alan Seales: Well, the prices, the prices are the same. Well, right. Anyway. So are you paying for parks? Is that what you're paying for?

[45:04] Tess Marshall: I don't know. I mean, you just pay for a little bit more. Yeah. A little bit more space, a little bit more quiet. And like you can, like what I'll put, you know, the heavy residential areas in Brooklyn are, are quiet. They can be, I'm just right. I happen to be right on the edge of downtown and I picked that location purposely just because.

[45:22] Alan Seales: Are you close to that like Target, Trader Joe's, AMC area close to downtown? I do love that area.

[45:29] Tess Marshall: That's Fulton street mall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do.

[45:32] Alan Seales: So we go to the Alamo there all the time. I love the Alamo. I love the Alamo.

[45:37] Tess Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, okay. I don't know. Maybe you hit me. I don't know. Drop something in my lap. I don't know. Yeah. I think you should consider it for your next move.

[45:46] Alan Seales: I do feel like a lot of, a lot of friends have recently moved to Brooklyn. A lot of friends have recently gotten dogs. A lot of friends have recently gotten married to Brooklyn.

[45:54] Tess Marshall: To their dogs.

[45:55] Alan Seales: To their dogs.

[45:58] Tess Marshall: Married to their dogs in Brooklyn. You can marry whoever you want these days.

[46:00] Alan Seales: Yeah. I guess I'm in love with the dog. Okay. Anyway. All right. So let's wind down here with plot in 60 seconds. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm going to put 60 seconds up on the screen.

[46:07] Tess Marshall: Okay. Dun, dun, dun, dun. I have the Brooklyn crud today.

[46:14] Alan Seales: My chest crud. All right. 17 popular musicals on my screen in front of me. Okay. You give me a number one through 17.

[46:20] Tess Marshall: Six.

[46:28] Alan Seales: The number six. Oh, you're going to know this one. The number six is Les Mis. Go.

[46:32] Tess Marshall: Okay. A young girl who sings really high, um, gets really upset and, and is a little spoiled. And her dad is like, Oh my God. Well, he's not her dad. A girl named Fontaine gets syphilis and dies. And then she gives this girl to a guy with, um, who's been in prison and she's like, Hey, will you take my daughter? He's like, yeah, we'll take her daughter. And then she falls in love with this guy who like insists on fighting on this barricade. And then he gets effed up and then she ends up with him and Fontaine dies. Oh, and she sold her hair and her teeth and it's brutal. It's really, really bad and no one should ever be bald. And then, and then, um, she sings some really high songs and Oh, Eponine is really upset because she loves this guy that she can't have because this little kind of like whiny girl gets him instead. And, uh, there's a revolution and they wave some flags and ultimately it's simply too long.

[47:30] Alan Seales: Good, good button. Okay. That's your, that's your producer pitch.

[47:34] Tess Marshall: Yeah. Uh, it's not getting picked up. So would you like to invest in my show? It's simply too long. It's simply too long. That's the pull quote. You know what though? I think about those actors on that tour and I'm like, that is how you do that. That's how you go make your bag.

[47:47] Alan Seales: I love Les Mis disclaimer. I really do love Les Mis. I think it's one of the best.

[47:51] Tess Marshall: It's just, I think it's one of the best things. It's absolutely gorgeous and heartbreaking. Oh, the Tarnies. I forgot the Tarnies. They're my favorite part. Oh yes. They're my favorite part. And I do think about the actors on that tour though, with the overages, you lucky ass obese. That's a lot of work though. I mean, yeah. Cause it's what? Simply too long.

[48:13] Alan Seales: It is. It's really long. I feel bad for not bad. I guess I lack of understanding for the actors who are still doing the two part original length Harry Potter in London. Is that still happening?

[48:27] Tess Marshall: It's still two parts? Isn't it? I don't know. I think in London it's still original because they keep shortening it here. Now it's down to a tight three hour one act here in New York, but I think London it's still two part. I didn't realize that. I think. Let me know people. Yeah, chime in. Chime in in the comments. That's wild. Also the idea of your job one day, an eight show a week schedule is hard enough. Prepping and preparing for the vocal expenditure, the physical expenditure of one show eight times a week is hard enough. The constant back and forth that would take so much conditioning and stamina in a way that I don't think we're designed for. That's hard. That would be really, really hard that your Tuesday would look different from your Wednesday with the same or more expenditure in a different lane. That's like having to do Celine Dion one night and then sing eight different Celine Dion songs the next night.

[49:25] Tess Marshall: Yeah, no. That's crazy. You can't get muscle memory in that. The constant, it would take months. Let's go to London and watch both halves. Okay. I've never seen both halves. Get us tickets. I'm going. I haven't either. I've only seen the abridged. Yeah, I'm only seeing it here. Is that the right word? Shortened. Shortened version. I want to see the shortened version. Three standard closing questions. Okay. To wrap it up, number one, simply what motivates you?

[49:49] Tess Marshall: Passion, faith, joy. I think knowing that you're made to do something, I think there's a lot of freedom and peace in that. I like that.

[49:55] Alan Seales: What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[50:00] Tess Marshall: If you don't really love it, don't do it because it's just too hard and it takes too much. If you do really love it, you need to know what your non-negotiables are. What are you willing to forfeit? What are you not? Because you will come to a crossroads where you will have to choose. If you have not thought about it, it's very overwhelming. If you're not having fun with it, if it doesn't light you up, if it stops lighting you up, it's okay to change your mind. I think so many times in this industry, people view other people leaving the industry or changing dreams or starting families or moving out of New York as a failure and it's not. Dreams are dreams. We live long lives. You are allowed to have multiple joys in your life. You're allowed to change your mind and there's no shame or failure in picking a different lane. It's so stigmatized. I think it's so silly. It's so silly.

[50:53] Alan Seales: I like it. Last question, hardest one. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[51:00] Tess Marshall: This is going to sound like a plug, but it's actually tried and true, Titanic, and here's why. It's short. Also, I have sung the show, seen the show, sat backstage and listened to the show every single day for an accumulative, I don't know, three years now and I'm still not sick of it.

[51:20] Alan Seales: It's fun.

[51:21] Tess Marshall: I'm still not sick of the songs. I'm not sick of the comedy. I'm not sick of the jokes. I'm not sick of the writing. It's so entertaining. I cannot believe I'm not tired of it, truthfully, but I'm not. I love that.

[51:33] Alan Seales: And I don't ever want to sit through a three-hour musical, ever.

[51:36] Tess Marshall: Les Mis would not be your choice.

[51:37] Alan Seales: Here's the thing. You know how sometimes, well, we're ADHD. You know how you can literally turn off your brain? You can be like, I'm in. I'm hyper-focused. I'm totally out. That's what I would do. I'd pick my parts and then see you later. In a world of decreasing attention spans, we're not built for that kind of experience anymore. I don't know that we ever were. You know the secret to social media success right now is seven seconds. Anything longer than seven seconds, you're toast.

[52:08] Tess Marshall: Tell me more.

[52:09] Alan Seales: Seven seconds. That's the number.

[52:10] Tess Marshall: This episode is about one hour and seven seconds too long.

[52:13] Alan Seales: One hour and seven seconds too long. Truly, people want quick dopamine hits. Any longer than seven seconds has proven that people zone out.

[52:23] Tess Marshall: Oh yeah. And I saw too that you're supposed to give away the punchline or the payoff in the first three seconds, or they keep scrolling. So you give away the big reveal.

[52:30] Alan Seales: And then you go and do your seven to 10 second-ish, I guess, build up for it. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think it's poisonous and really bad, and we're all headed straight toward a cliff. But I also think at a certain point, we do have to acknowledge that it's happening, and that two acts is tough. You give somebody a break.

[52:51] Tess Marshall: I watched Wuthering Heights last night.

[52:53] Alan Seales: Yeah. I haven't seen it.

[52:55] Tess Marshall: Did you like it? There's so much controversy.

[52:58] Alan Seales: About what?

[53:02] Tess Marshall: I mean, I think in the book, right, isn't Heathcliff supposed to be a man of dark skin?

[53:07] Alan Seales: I think that, and I also think that people are just like, why mess with a good thing? The book was so great, and this movie is like watered down. But I haven't seen it, so I can't speak to it.

[53:17] Tess Marshall: Disclaimer, I've never read the book.

[53:20] Alan Seales: I did read Outsiders in high school.

[53:22] Tess Marshall: The accents too, I think they're having an issue with.

[53:24] Alan Seales: Really?

[53:24] Tess Marshall: Because Margot Robbie's accent was so beautiful, and it really would have been a horrific, more closer Yorkshire accent.

[53:30] Alan Seales: Oh. Oh no, she did, I don't know.

[53:32] Tess Marshall: Okay, so I went in blind after.

[53:36] Alan Seales: Yeah, I watched it yesterday because it just popped up on my feed of like, people are talking about this.

[53:39] Tess Marshall: And I was like, oh, okay, I like Margot Robbie.

[53:42] Alan Seales: Yeah, me too.

[53:43] Tess Marshall: If she's going to produce something, lucky chap, then I'll go watch it.

[53:46] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[53:47] Tess Marshall: She does good stuff.

[53:48] Alan Seales: Yes.

[53:48] Tess Marshall: And was at the end of it, I finished it at midnight last night. Just like, it was so sad.

[53:53] Alan Seales: Yeah, I was like, oh my god, this is the best, again, the best worst thing ever.

[53:58] Tess Marshall: Yeah.

[53:58] Alan Seales: And no, I, what did I bring that up? Oh, because it was set in a time when literally there was nothing to do.

[54:09] Tess Marshall: Uh-huh.

[54:10] Alan Seales: Attention spans.

[54:11] Tess Marshall: Yeah.

[54:12] Alan Seales: So like the, they just sit around and they just wait on cliffs for each other.

[54:20] Tess Marshall: Yeah.

[54:23] Alan Seales: And they sit and be with their thoughts.

[54:27] Tess Marshall: Yeah.

[54:29] Alan Seales: And you can't even call anyone because phones hadn't been invented yet.

[54:27] Tess Marshall: Right, solitude.

[54:29] Alan Seales: And letters get intercepted and thrown in the fire.

[54:33] Tess Marshall: And you never know if somebody, there's no read receipts.

[54:35] Alan Seales: Did they receive word?

[54:37] Tess Marshall: Yeah.

[54:37] Alan Seales: Like, and so people come up with things like ribbon collections and making it in ornate dollhouses because there's nothing else to do except either be rich or be poor and work for someone who's rich.

[54:54] Tess Marshall: Right.

[54:55] Alan Seales: I do think we could all benefit from some more hobbies.

[54:58] Tess Marshall: Right.

[54:59] Alan Seales: I think as a society, we do need to take up hobbies because everyone else's, maybe for the most part, people's hobbies are scrolling.

[55:07] Tess Marshall: Yeah.

[55:07] Alan Seales: When you've got free time, it's just—

[55:09] Tess Marshall: Doom scroll.

[55:10] Alan Seales: You just doom scroll.

[55:10] Tess Marshall: Yeah.

[55:11] Alan Seales: And your head is down.

[55:11] Tess Marshall: We're all going to get those knots on our necks.

[55:13] Alan Seales: We're all going to be humpy.

[55:14] Tess Marshall: Maybe I should take up a ribbon collection.

[55:17] Alan Seales: Either that—

[55:17] Tess Marshall: Or make some dollhouses.

[55:19] Alan Seales: Or make a doll out of someone's hair that you collect off a brush that you're obsessed over.

[55:23] Tess Marshall: That's, that should be diagnosed.

[55:27] Alan Seales: Listen.

[55:27] Tess Marshall: Heathcliff and what's her face?

[55:30] Alan Seales: The daughter or the sister of the rich husband?

[55:33] Tess Marshall: I never figured that out.

[55:34] Alan Seales: Listen, I got to go watch the movie.

[55:37] Alan Seales: Anyway, yeah. So Heathcliff marries the other girl and they get into some freaky shit.

[55:44] Tess Marshall: Some freaky shit?

[55:45] Alan Seales: They get into some freaky shit.

[55:46] Tess Marshall: With the ribbons or with the ribbons?

[55:47] Alan Seales: Oh, I don't know what they do.

[55:49] Tess Marshall: In the stable.

[55:50] Alan Seales: Oh, hi.

[55:52] Tess Marshall: But that smells good.

[55:55] Alan Seales: All right. We were supposed to wrap this up.

[55:56] Tess Marshall: Okay.

[55:58] Alan Seales: Yeah. Sorry. So where can people find you, connect with you, learn Clyde Frog's tour schedule?

[56:05] Tess Marshall: Yes. Plug all the places. My Instagram is Tess underscore Marshall. My Spotify or Apple Music, we are Clyde Frog. Again, two words, Clyde Frog, and my music will come out this summer, hopefully in July, under just my name, Tess Marshall, wherever you stream music. Please follow me. I will always be posting about, you know, dates and drops. And I should have a single coming out, hopefully in June, which is very exciting.

[56:33] Alan Seales: Pre the full length.

[56:35] Tess Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. Well, send it over. I'll post it.

[56:36] Alan Seales: I will. Oh my gosh. Thank you.

[56:38] Tess Marshall: Oh my gosh. I will.

[56:39] Alan Seales: Of course. Thanks. Well, you can find more me on theater. Just go on Theater Talk. Go on Theater Talk. Theater Talk, Instant Theater, Broadway, Tiki. I don't know. Facebook. I'm out there. Leave a rating review. Thanks to Jukebox the Ghost for the intro and outro music. Thanks. Welcome to Times Square dot com for this lovely, beautiful studio and Tess Marshall. Thanks for having me.

[57:00] Tess Marshall: I will not. I was going to make a forgetting Sarah Marshall joke, but it just came out completely wrong.

[57:07] Alan Seales: Tess Marshall.

[57:10] Tess Marshall: I was going to say, I will not forget you.

[57:12] Alan Seales: But that was that was a stretch.

[57:14] Tess Marshall: Yeah, well, it was a stretch.

[57:16] Alan Seales: Well, thank you so much.