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[0:00] Alex Wyse: Hi, I'm Alex Wyse. Welcome to The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales.

[0:11] Alan Seales: Hey, everyone. I'm Alan Seales, and you've reached another all-new episode of The Theatre Podcast. Our guest for this episode is Alex Wyse, who just seems to have a different creative engine than the rest of us. He doesn't just wait for the phone to ring, but instead, he just goes out and builds the entire phone company. We talk about the transition from being a theatre-obsessed kid in the suburbs of Cleveland to becoming a multi-hyphenate force in New York. And we get into some really honest territory in the episode, including a hilarious story about him playing soccer in a very calculated feint that basically sealed his career, well, ended his career as a soccer player and started his life on the stage. But we get into the heartbreak of his Broadway debut that didn't go quite as he planned it and how he turned that into a specific kind of fuel for writing and directing and producing. And we also dive into the beautiful quiet power of his current work, which involved telling a survival story through the lens of one of history's most famous mimes, Marcel Marceau. And this is just a fun conversation about staying curious and keeping those creative plates spinning when the industry tries to put you in a box. Can't wait to share this conversation with you. Make sure to find me online on all the social media platforms. You can watch the video version of this episode on Patreon or Spotify. And now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Alex Wyse.

[1:43] Alan Seales: My guest today is an actor, a writer, a director whose work spans from the Broadway stage to the digital screen. And you have seen him on Broadway in the original company of Lysistrata Jones, the Deaf West revival of Spring Awakening, and as Ogie in Waitress. He's the co-creator and star of the award-winning digital series Indoor Boys, and his extensive television credits include The Bold and the Beautiful, Marvel's Iron Fist, and Modern Family. And currently, he's performing in a new show, Marcel on the Train. Alex Wyse, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[2:10] Alex Wyse: Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here with you.

[2:14] Alan Seales: Thank you. You've done so much. And I feel like I've gotten to know you through the directing and the producing and the writing, and it's been a minute since I've seen you on stage.

[2:28] Alex Wyse: Sure, sure.

[2:29] Alan Seales: What brought you back?

[2:31] Alex Wyse: Well, I...

[2:32] Alan Seales: Ka-ching!

[2:34] Alex Wyse: Yeah, exactly. I'm off Broadway for the money. You know, I like doing something that feels different from the last thing that I did. So if the last thing I did is spend some time writing or directing, then I hope that the next thing I do can be acting. And this year has been really cool. I've done two plays in a row, two very interesting plays. I just did Practice at Playwrights Horizons, and I'm doing Marcel on the Train at Classic Stage Company, playing through March 22nd.

[3:04] Alan Seales: Playing Henri.

[3:05] Alex Wyse: Yeah, that's right, playing Henri. But we just say Henri.

[3:10] Alan Seales: Hey, Henri.

[3:12] Alex Wyse: Henri. Sounds like a color. So yeah, I just like having a lot of variety in my life and trying to keep all these different plates spinning. People have asked me, what do you like better? Do you like acting better? Do you like writing better? And I just like doing all the things, as many things as I can do.

[3:29] Alan Seales: Creating.

[3:29] Alex Wyse: Yeah, because it's all different expressions of the same kind of impulse. It's all coming from the same place, but I just like to switch up the way I express it, the way I use my brain and use my voice.

[3:40] Alan Seales: You feel a compulsion? A compulsion, that's the word.

[3:45] Alex Wyse: That's the word.

[3:45] Alan Seales: You compulsion to create? Do you have to wake up in the morning, you wake up in the morning and you're like, I have to make something today?

[3:52] Alex Wyse: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I inherited some lovely OCD from my mother. And you know what I've done is I've... First off, shout out to my awesome mom. But I think I've used that compulsion, I've tried to put it to good use. Maybe when I was younger, I had more of an issue with being overly critical of myself. And now if I put my work onto a piece of paper, I can use that criticism, that critical voice and use it toward what's on that page and figure out, okay, well, how can I rearrange these words? What can I do to these sentences to make this feel more alive? And it's like a never-ending task. But it's really exciting when the compulsory parts of me have a job to do.

[4:38] Alan Seales: The compulsory parts of me have it. I need a job for several of my parts.

[4:43] Alex Wyse: I think you do a very good job of creating jobs for yourself. I mean, you have this podcast, you have so many podcasts in the podcast world that you are a part of. And I think that's an important thing to do to have lots of different kinds of projects. And wait, I'll say, I want you to talk about yourself. But I also want to say one more thing. You know, I've also found that like, in my writing quests, for example, if I say I have a difficult night at the show, like I didn't feel like I did well that night or something or whatever, you know, BS thing I've told myself that evening, or I'm frustrated with something at work, I can go home and I work on another project. And then it feels like the show that I'm in is not an indicator that there's been difficulty with Marcel this I'm speaking in general terms. But I think that I can go home work on another project to remember that the show I'm in is not the entire world. Yeah, it's it's one little universe. And if I dip my toes in multiple universes, then they all then I can have perspective on all of the others. So that really helps me that helps me kind of step away from my own neuroses. And yeah, okay, that's, that's, yeah, that's the end of that point.

[5:55] Alan Seales: You're traveling down a different spoke of the same hub.

[5:58] Alex Wyse: Yeah, you're still part of the same universe. And I find that too, that if I if I'm stuck, and I, I'm obsessing over something, or I can't figure something out, or I'm stressing about something, I literally will just like, go take a shower or like, go blow the heads off of aliens for a few hours, like playing, playing. And then you'll go play some video games.

[6:16] Alex Wyse: And then I go play video games.

[6:18] Alan Seales: Yeah, you know, but like, just having that little bit of time to separate yourself gives you so much clarity. And I love that you have the talent to be able to channel that into instead of, you know, maybe video games, like you're going into writing, writing scripts.

[6:31] Alex Wyse: Oh, thanks.

[6:32] Alan Seales: Or, or, you like have the gumption to go out and like work on your next project with whoever your collaborator of the week is because you've worked with so many amazing people.

[6:41] Alex Wyse: Oh, thanks. I mean, I really try to, you know, I try to, you know, I try to, you know, I really try very hard to surround myself with people who make me feel creative, and to make me feel like I need to work and die. And, and we can pass each other the baton in the race back and forth and help each other continue, continue going till we reach that goal as a team.

[7:07] Alan Seales: Well, you grew up in Beechwood, Ohio.

[7:09] Alex Wyse: I did. That's a suburb of Cleveland.

[7:11] Alan Seales: The Clevelands. There's a lot of theater in Cleveland.

[7:13] Alex Wyse: Yeah, there is a lot of theater lovers in Cleveland.

[7:16] Alan Seales: So were you exposed to that when you were a kid? Like what got you into this?

[7:19] Alex Wyse: Yeah, so much so, you know, I think Cleveland is actually a great place to grow up because it's such a national joke. And do you know what I mean? Like, everybody makes fun of Cleveland. There's so many punchlines, especially in old sitcoms, like you're gonna go to Cleveland, you know? So I was like Roger the Alien from American Dad. Anyway, but I find that because, because Cleveland has this reputation that it doesn't deserve, the people of Cleveland have tried very, very hard to raise their game and to create a really great place to grow up and to cultivate the arts. And there's amazing food. And they're like a really a lot of really nice towns in the Cleveland area. So because of that, there was so much theater growing up. And I was involved in so many youth productions and like small, local professional productions. And so I felt like I got to start working with adult actors when I was a kid in a way that really shaped me and asked of me to grow up and to become a professional, even before I was a professional.

[8:24] Alan Seales: What was it that got you into doing theater, though? Like, why did you not want to do soccer or ballet or something else that other kids love to do?

[8:32] Alex Wyse: When I was a child, I played soccer for maybe one week. And I remember there was this one time, I'll never forget this. I got passed the soccer ball, and it was right in front of me. And I remember looking out and seeing the whole all the parents in the stands start to cheer. And they're like, go, go. And it was like stationary in front of me. And meanwhile, all the other kids were on the other side of the field. And so I pretended to faint. That is an absolutely real story. I was like, oh, and I just fell down onto the grass and all the parents sat down like very confused as to what happened to the six-year-old boy with a stationary soccer ball in front of him. But I think I just didn't really have a choice.

[9:13] Alan Seales: And then someone in the back said, get that kid into theater.

[9:15] Alex Wyse: Yeah, exactly. That child needs to perform. So I just, I think I just always knew that, I mean, it was something I totally loved. I also was very lucky in that I had a really cool grandmother who lived in New York, who was a writer. And she was tangentially involved in theater. But she wrote novels and poems, and she was super cool. And we would come and visit her once a year. And I would see shows with my grandma. I'd see Broadway shows with my grandmother. It was so cool. And I just remember looking at like seeing Beauty and the Beast and looking at that kid playing Chip and thinking, damn, because I could do that. I should be up there. I should be Chip, you know, whoever that lovely kid was, you know, I'm sure he's great.

[10:02] Alex Wyse: Grew up to be John Cameron Mitchell.

[10:04] Alan Seales: Yeah, exactly. I wonder who that person would be. This would be in the late 80s, early 90s.

[10:12] Alex Wyse: Yeah, probably mid-90s is when I was seeing that show. But anyway, that kid is probably fantastic, and I hope they're well. But I just saw these kids up there. And I also thought like, oh my gosh, I fit in with the kid. I fit in up there. Like those are my people up there on that stage. And it was this like, very, very intense calling. And I just always felt my entire life like I had absolutely no choice but to work as hard as I possibly could to be a part of that thing. So I could feel like I am home.

[10:39] Alan Seales: When did you feel home for the first time?

[10:42] Alex Wyse: Oh, gosh. Well, I actually, I have one very, well, the first play I ever did, I was like five, six years old. And I was in, you know, in the ensemble of Oliver. And I walked from one side of the stage to the other. And right, yeah. And sang with the ensemble, Consider Yourself. And I just thought, this is it. I've arrived.

[11:03] Alan Seales: Doesn't get any better than this.

[11:05] Alex Wyse: Yeah. I think every time I was a part of a group like that, and it didn't matter what I was doing, what I was playing, I just I felt I was felt like I was with my people. I'd be at school, at public school with these lots of kids. And there were a few kids here and there whom I liked and, and who understood me and, but I'd go to the theater and all these kids were as funny, and cool and weird and as I aspired to be. So I like to, so it's really, I just did whatever I could to surround myself with that kind of person. And, and so I don't know, I just think I didn't have a choice.

[11:41] Alan Seales: And then do you remember, was there ever a decision? Or was it just always in your head that you were going to go into college and do this for a living? And you went to Boston University, which is not easy to get into.

[11:53] Alex Wyse: Yeah, yeah, it's a good school. I had a terrible time, but it's a very good school.

[11:57] Alan Seales: Really?

[11:57] Alex Wyse: Yeah. But um, I there was never a I never had to be like, should I pursue theater? It was just, it was just so who I was, was I needed to be a part of the arts. And I loved it so intensely. And I just only felt I felt my happiest when I was involved in that. So I didn't have a choice. And I went to BU. Because I, I also figured out that I didn't want to pursue musical theater. Even though I was also a singer, I just thought I would get a better overall theater education. And this is just personal to me. I thought I'd get a better like kind of broader theater education going to a place like Boston University. But also, it was a good choice for me because I could also study playwriting, I could study directing. And I started to sharpen those skills and and those started to feel real for me as well. I think if I had been in like dance training every day, which is not something I'm very good at, then I think I might have been in the wrong place for me and would not have had the space to open up my brain to different disciplines within theater.

[13:09] Alan Seales: Well, so growing up, then you go to college and you're performing and etc, etc, right? And do what was it? Was there a moment or anything when you were just like, I'm gonna try directing now I'm gonna try writing now like when when was it that you sort of like branched out from what you were comfortable with?

[13:25] Alex Wyse: I think it was always just based on like, just feeling it. Okay, for instance, there was a girl I went to high school with, or went to a neighboring high school is a good friend of mine, a girl named Julie Marx, who now lives in, she now lives in Germany. But she, she's an opera singer and, and especially during our high school and college and I was just so I was so inspired by her voice. And I thought I got to just like maybe maybe I could write a song that my friend Julie could sing. And so I just started writing songs. And then my senior project was I wrote a song cycle. I'd never written songs, but I knew what made a good song by listening by studying musical theater. I was so obsessed with musical theater as a kid. Now I have more hobbies now. But like, when I was as a kid, I just I needed to understand like, what, what makes this song work? And what makes the song not work? And why does this song soar over here? And why does the song have this particular rhyme scheme? And I was just I was just fascinated. And so I tried to emulate these different things. And when I found someone, the first one for me was my friend Julie, who her voice just sent me sent me soaring. So I had to be a part of her talent. And so she got me writing just by the nature of her being so good. And I think that I've had a lot of moments like that where a particular actor is inspiring me. And so I have to write something for them. I have to do that. You know, in fact, a project I'm, I've been working on for the past year started because of my excitement about a particular actor. And now I'm in post production on a film.

[15:10] Alan Seales: Very cool.

[15:10] Alex Wyse: Yeah, thanks. I can tell you all about that, too. But, but it's just I'm just trying to, I think it's just another extension of trying to surround myself with people who understand me and who inspire me and who like, strike that match inside of me. And, and it just gets me going. And I, and I know that I'm like on this earth to follow those impulses and do my best to create things. So I can create rooms filled with more of those people who are cool and inspire me and make me into the best version of myself. And we can all make each other better by making a project as a collective. That's cool, right?

[15:45] Alan Seales: That is very cool. And I, I enjoy that, that you're you put your friends like you create for your friends, you create for the people that inspire you like you find you find muses and all of these little different different areas. Yes. And a lot of people get together and they're like, Oh, man, we should do this thing. Like some people, they're like, let's go have lunch next week. And you never hear from him again for six years. But like, you're like, let's make a film together. And then you just go do it.

[16:06] Alex Wyse: Well, yeah. I mean, it's not to say I haven't had a lot of lunches that didn't go anywhere, but I've had many lunches in my day. But, but, but I, but I really try to find those projects that, that make me feel like I got to work on this for several years. This is worth it because I have something I have to say, or there's this person I have to work with. Yeah. And along the way, I meet so many other muses, like on this particular film I'm working on, it's called Actual Nobodies. And I think it's going to come out maybe at the end of this year, maybe next year, we'll find out we're nearing the end of post-production right now. But it stars Didi Conn and Austin Mackenzie, who was a Melchior in Spring Awakening. When I, when I did that back in the day, I forgot what the beginning of my sentence was. Oh, just like, just, you know, along the way, I've, I've met so many incredible people who like my passion for this particular story fed into theirs, which could feed back into mine. And we could have this sort of loop of ideas and, and, and like, as I said before, like, you know, keep passing the baton back and forth and get to a finish line together. So yeah, that, that feels like that's why I'm on this planet. So I have to, I like, I owe it to myself to follow through with these projects. Otherwise, like I, I don't know what the point is.

[17:28] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, that's a, that's a really good, that's a good point. What is the point if we're not just finishing what we started? Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[17:33] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the episode. Indoor Boys too. I want to touch on that for a second. That's, that's multiple seasons, huge names, multiple awards. Like where did that even, that's, it's an incredible series.

[17:45] Alex Wyse: Oh, thank you. And so like, where did that idea come from? Was that like you're working co-written with Wes Taylor, right?

[17:49] Alex Wyse: That's right. Yeah. That all started because Wes and I were like lonely in Los Angeles and we, and, and we started really like vibing as friends and feeling like we had a great tête-à-tête. And so I think the idea was let's make a web short. So we made a web short and then we thought, what if we made a second web short with these same characters? It honestly snowballed from something so small and we just kept going and going and going and bringing in more characters and developing the story until eventually we had made a series. I don't think I set out to make a series. I was not, that was not even on my radar. I just wanted to do something like this, this time that I'd been given this time and this frustration I'd been given. And I will say, especially, I was on a soap opera at the time where I felt, I don't know if I've said this on, but I can say this. I felt like so closeted on that soap opera.

[18:42] Alan Seales: Really?

[18:43] Alex Wyse: Yeah. Because it was a sort of like, like old world version of TV. And I remember like, there are a lot of fans on that soap opera who were like, no, we hate him. He's gay. You know? So I felt so like, I don't belong in this world. What am I doing here? What, why am I, it was very confusing at the time. And so I think I needed to make something as unabashedly gay as I possibly could as a way to like counteract, you know, this kind of soap world. And not to say there weren't good things in that soap world, there were, I'm thankful for it, but it was also hard. And I don't know that I totally fit in there. So I made a place where I fit in so that for me, that's where a lot of that came from. And then it was like, okay, who's around us? Who are our friends who are, who live in Los Angeles? We'll do this with us. And then Wes had to move to New York for SpongeBob. And I followed shortly after to go back and do Waitress. And, and so we were like, okay, I guess these characters just moved to New York. Who do we know in New York? And, and maybe these characters have family members. And here are some like amazing leading ladies whom we are crazy about. How do we, how do we get to work with them? So Carolee Carmelo did it and Vianne Cox did it and like, and these people and Michael Kostroff who, it's just so many fantastic actors who we got to surround ourselves with. And it was all circumstantial about what was happening in Wes and my life and what was happening socially for us. And, and the things we felt, the things we're struggling with on our own romantic relationships or family relationships, we could just kind of pour it into this series. So it all, it wasn't ever like from the place of, I shall make a series. It was from the place of, I need to say something. I need to do something. I have these feelings. So what's the best container for these feelings? That's this movie too, Actual Nobodies. It came from a place of like feeling so frustrated in the world. And so I wrote this movie about like two very lonely people who find themselves in, who find each other and themselves in this kind of unexpected way. And it's a sweet comedy drama and I'm excited for people to eventually see it. Maybe later when this podcast is revisited down the road, people will be able to say, ah, I shall go rent it.

[21:02] Alan Seales: We can re-release it. We can re-release this episode when, when your movie comes out.

[21:06] Alex Wyse: Wonderful. I'm doing like my pre-press for it now, you know, because why not? You're doing a press for your press.

[21:10] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to, I want to just grease the wheels a little bit. But it's, but all these different things are just from me having this impulse and trying to figure out where it best fits in. Also this musical I'm writing right now with Ben Fankhauser. He and I are hard at work. We've been hard at work for about a year on this brand new musical that we're so excited about. And it's this wild story about like, some sci-fi elements, but it's all because of these feelings of like, of jealousy or feelings of like feeling small in the light of somebody else's moments. So, so things that I like dealt with in my own life that I was then thinking, okay, what's the container for these feelings. And so each one of these projects is a kind of therapy for me. And then if I can create something out of it, every time I can think to myself, wow, well, it's a really good thing. I went through that heartbreak. It's a really good thing because look what I made. I got to make my album called Picking Up Speed, which you can hear right now, which is a solo musical, which is all about like a, a calamitous relationship that I went through, but I'm so glad I went through it because I got to write this piece about this character going through something similar and creating a show and then an album out of it. So it's all like for something. If I make it into something, that's my, that's what I try to, that's what I try. And I'm gonna take a sip of coffee.

[22:40] Alan Seales: Um, so then when you finally get to Broadway, make your debut in Lysistrata Jones, that was a powerhouse of a show that like were bright and fast, right?

[22:48] Alex Wyse: Yeah. Yeah. Like working with, with that team, was it what you had expected it to be like making the debut and being in New York and you know, like the, the, the goal that so many people have is to be on Broadway and then you've made it.

[23:00] Alex Wyse: I know, I know what a, what a fairy tale that we've told ourselves, right? Yeah. It's so, it's really beautiful the way that that's so untrue. Um, but I'm so thankful that I got to be a part of that show and that that show was my first Broadway experience. What's funny too, is when I was a kid, I was really obsessed with flop musicals and I was really into that book, Not Since Carrie by Ken Mandelbaum, which is like chronicling so many notable flops throughout Broadway history. And I was just, I was just fascinated. And I was like, how is it possible? There are all these shows that I haven't heard of didn't work or didn't get good reviews. Um, what is this whole underground world of musicals? And then my first outing turned into exactly that. So it was like my greatest dream come true, followed by my biggest heartbreak. So it was a huge learning experience about learning how to like pick myself back up and redefine what this dream actually was, which is why, which is when I started getting closer to the dream of like, I need to work with people who inspire me, which is a lot of why I'm so thankful for Marcel on the Train playing a classic stage company through March 22nd. Can you tell I've watched a lot of Drag Race? Um, and, uh, but being a part of La Sisterata Jones, like when that show closed, it was, it was so easy to feel like, uh, that show's, um, lack of success was my lack of success. I couldn't personally, yeah, I couldn't separate the two. I was really young and I didn't understand that I wasn't my career. I, I was actually a human being who was going through these different experiences and, and thank goodness I had more experiences, good and bad that were still ahead of me that could help further deepen and add more pieces to the puzzle that is me. But at the time when all I had was like this success and this fall, it was so hard not to take it as my fall. So I'm, I'm glad that experience came first because I think, uh, it prepared me for so many other tough times that were ahead and gave me more tools by learning how to pick myself back up. I could have more tools going forward when I inevitably fell again, which I have, I've fallen so many times, but that's a career in the arts.

[25:18] Alan Seales: Yeah. We just keep stumbling and then we have to learn how to pick ourselves back up and find a new chapter, a new adventure to go on. Right. And so when, when you fall, is that when you kind of want to try, not, not try, but when you sort of leapfrog into another category of like, I'm going to write now or I'm going to go back and produce something or now I want to get back on stage. Or is it just like you, you've done one for a certain amount of time. You're like, it's time to switch lanes for a second.

[25:42] Alex Wyse: Maybe it's more of that. And I can't really control if something is going to be a success or not. Um, things are going to be received, how they're going to be received and everything I work on. I love them all the same. I love all my children the same and whatever job they get in the world, I can't control, you know, I guess you could think of it that way. But, um, uh, yeah, I just, uh, I just am trying to find different ways to, to, I don't know, different ways to learn about myself through all these different medium.

[26:14] Alan Seales: Well, you've been on both sides of the stage multiple times, right? So even, even something like, uh, you just said it doesn't, you can't control how people receive a show, but, and, and you took like Lysistrata Jones, you took personally, but there are so many things now I'm sure you know, that are completely outside of your control that you had no idea were even decisions to be made of, of just like, how do we market a show? Where do we spend the money on? Where are we going to get our funds from? What are, how long is rehearsal? That's going to affect the chemistry that we have between these people before, you know, like the, the recipe that goes into making the final product is so freaking intense. And then by the time it gets into the actor's hands, I would say a good bulk of it, the majority of it, the pre-prod work sometimes take years. It's already done and it's out of your hands. But like you, as a kid, you didn't know this, you didn't realize any of this. I mean, I guess how could you until you've jumped into the deep end? But, um, now I know that any projects getting made is the result of like a million tiny decisions and like a million tiny miracles and, uh, fortuitous moments. Um, just a quick anecdote, like about the, this film that I'm making right now. Um, I've been working with a music supervisor to get, um, certain songs for the film in the edit. And, uh, and there was this one song that was approved and we had it in the edit for months. And then we got an email, this was like two weeks ago. And he said, I'm so sorry, but Sony will not release the rights to this song. And so I was like, no, no, this moment's going to fall apart. What am I going to do? And because, uh, he, well, well, he sent over all these other songs. He said, here, these are some others that you could potentially use. I tried them out. Um, and there's this one song that unlocked this whole new thing in the edit that we could do. I was like, oh my goodness, this is a whole different way to tell this story. And I could add in this footage that I had previously gotten rid of because I couldn't find a place for it. But now with the accompaniment of this song, this moment works in a whole new way. It breaks open the story in a whole new way. It enriches this character in a whole new way. And, and had first quote unquote failure not happened, I never would have had this like brand new moment in my film. And so I think that's like a microcosmic example for how we're supposed to look at life. Right. That when we fall, it's actually, it's for something, even if we can't see it yet, it gets a little like woo woo spiritual. But I think as someone who like is constantly faced with all of these different paths to walk down in at like hyper speed, it feels like that's the life of an artist. So many wild chapters and changes, I think, and so many decisions you have to make, like, what do I want my, my present, my future to be? What's the, what gamble should I take? So I, I think when something doesn't go your way, it's actually, it's actually in service to us, even if we can't see it in the moment.

[29:13] Alex Wyse: So I'm going to try to remember that advice for myself the next time I get discouraged when I don't get some job, which will happen again, or, you know, or something doesn't come together the way I thought it was supposed to, which will happen again. And I'll just try to remember that that is actually happening for me, even if I can't see how yet, because it's going to give that character and maybe that character is me a new perspective and a new kind of depth and enrich this character in the span of this story or my life.

[29:41] Alan Seales: So that's what I kind of think about life. I'm going to take another sip of coffee now.

[29:45] Alex Wyse: Mic drop!

[29:49] Alan Seales: Are we still recording? Have we started yet? We haven't started yet.

[29:51] Alex Wyse: No, no, this is a great rehearsal.

[29:52] Alan Seales: Okay. Yeah. I'm excited to start. Let me know when we're recording.

[29:56] Alan Seales: Let's talk about Henri.

[29:57] Alex Wyse: I'd love to.

[29:57] Alan Seales: And Marcel on the Train. The, based on the true story of Marcel Marseille, very famous French mime.

[30:05] Alex Wyse: That's right.

[30:06] Alan Seales: And I heard this name growing up. I knew of him. I knew about him as in the entertainment world and had zero clue that he was risking his life multiple times to chaperone Jewish children and get them out of occupied France in World War II.

[30:24] Alex Wyse: Yeah, it's really such a fascinating story. And it was an untold story for so long until toward the end of their lives, Marcel and his brother, George started opening up about these transports that they would do to take these children to safety. Just an incredible thing. And there are so many of these stories, I think, that I love like this and Operation Mincemeat and these other shows that are now like bringing names and attention to literal dead bodies, right? Like Mincemeat is just like, let's say the person's name because it's a body that shaped the tide, turned the tide in World War II. But like the story that Marcel and the Train has, I mean, when did this even come to you and what did you think about it when you first read the script?

[31:11] Alex Wyse: I thought it was fascinating. Ethan Slater and Marshall Paylett co-wrote this together. And this is a story that I know Ethan found and brought to Marshall. And I think it spoke to both of their passions about, well, about what it means to be Jewish, what it means to survive something. Their love for clowning and physical comedy. They're both so incredible at that. So Ethan's like done straight clown school. He's unbelievable. I cannot say enough things about Ethan Slater on and off stage. He's a fantastic person. And I just want that to go on the record. He's a fantastic person. When they asked me to do a reading of this, I guess it was about three years ago. I was just, honestly, at first I was just so excited. I got to work with Marshall and Ethan. This is my third show with Marshall. He previously directed me in Triassic Park, and he also directed a musical that I wrote called A Commercial Jingle for Regina Comet.

[32:17] Alan Seales: I love Regina Comet.

[32:19] Alex Wyse: Thanks, Sal. Thank you. Marshall did both of those. I was just like, heck yeah, let's go again, Marshall. I'm so excited. What I loved about it was how it told this very challenging and dark story in very creative and comedic ways. I think the show is also, it's so funny and it's also a thrill ride. I love that it took this unknown chapter of history and of this one man's life and turned it into the universal story about the right to survival told through both dramatic and comedic ways. I was just so happy to be a part of that and happy to work with these guys. I think they're very, very special people.

[33:07] Alan Seales: So Henri and the other children, the other characters in the show, you're all adults playing children, but all of them are real people, were real people, yes?

[33:16] Alex Wyse: I think they're all sort of vaguely based on real people. The kids are more an invention of Ethan and Marshall, as the actual kids who were saved, those stories have not emerged as much. So these characters are really much more created by Marshall and Ethan. But Henri is, I don't know, the smug, wisecracking, prideful, deeply sensitive, I think, the guy who will do anything to survive. What's cool about the show is each one of these kids also represents different ways to survive. And Henri's is by being smug and being right and by biting back. And so it's a real joy to play that. Unfounded the word I'm looking for, it's just like a dumb confidence.

[34:17] Alan Seales: Yeah, totally. That's absolute, absolute dumb confidence. I think Henri is a brilliant idiot.

[34:23] Alex Wyse: Yes.

[34:25] Alan Seales: And it's really fun to play that. And it's fun to play someone who gets to be funny in the face of this tragedy. Not tragedy, in the face of this challenging time.

[34:35] Alex Wyse: Right. Did the cast, all of you, did you have to do research or were you given research to look up and stuff when you were prepping for everything?

[34:40] Alex Wyse: Yeah, yeah. We did a lot of learning about, well, learning about Marcel, but then also talking a lot about what it means to be in Nazi-occupied France versus what that would have meant to be in Poland. Like being in France, we learned, is different than Poland. It was a little more like, oh, there are no camps here. It was a little more, you could be a little more blasé. And so we tried to apply all of that to the way we played these scenes and how some of this action unfolds and to what it means for there to be Nazis outside the window. It might mean something different to these French children than it would if it were set in a different part of Europe. So it was all really interesting information, but history, history, blah, blah, blah. It's a great show. It is. It is a very great show. The audience for this, the reaction is, I went, I saw it last night, I was telling you, and it was a packed house and everybody, just the reaction. To me, everyone was leaning in and watching this in a way that I haven't seen people watch theater in a while.

[35:36] Alex Wyse: That's cool.

[35:49] Alan Seales: Because I look around every now and then because classic stage theater, it's like a thrust stage. I was in the center and you can look at the sides and everything. So I look around every now and then I'm watching how people watch it and they leaned in and you can tell they're very into it. They're not looking around, they're not playing with their candies or whatever they're doing. And this stuff is, it draws them in in a way that I haven't seen in a while. So the audience reactions, the feedback that you've been getting, is it different from other things? I mean, Spring Awakening was also like a serious subject matter with some comedy in it, but I feel like when you're dealing with matters of Jewish history and Holocaust and World War II, especially, there's a special place for people to come to consume this stuff.

[36:33] Alex Wyse: Yeah, I think so. But I also think, to your point, there's so many moments of stillness and of silence. And so it asks the audience to tune in in that way, kind of like, though this play is nothing like the movie I'm about to mention. Do you remember the movie, A Quiet Place? It's about like, you know-

[36:50] Alan Seales: John Trudensy.

[36:54] Alex Wyse: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I remember being in that movie theater and you could hear a pin drop because the movie was asking of the audience to be very mindful. And I think this play is doing something similar. These kids are being rambunctious and loud and then there are moments where it's like, wait.

[37:10] Alan Seales: Well, there's literal mime in the show.

[37:14] Alex Wyse: And there is literal mime where everyone's attention has to go to the silence and the stillness and the physical work that can punctuate that stillness. So yeah, it's cool. It's doing something different than I think a lot of plays do. And I think that's part of what makes this play so special. It really is. It really is different. I enjoy that it is different because right now I think there's a lot of recycled crap.

[37:42] Alan Seales: I would never say that about our lovely theatrical season of which I support everything.

[37:51] Alex Wyse: Cast me. Cast me, cast me, cast me. And I get it. I get that maybe crap's not the right word. Um, unoriginal material. We'll go with that because when you're talking about the commercial viability of a show in the great city of New York where it is cost prohibitive to try a new work, it's cost prohibitive to try to work. So to have a story that is original, that tells something so unique that isn't guaranteed to be a blockbuster because it's recycling a story that everybody knows already, right? Totally.

[38:29] Alex Wyse: So I truly enjoy what Marcel on the Train has done and is doing and is bringing, again, if we can sneak in some education while being entertained, all the better.

[38:40] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. And, you know, I think the arts are obviously not in like the best place, like just with capitalism getting worse and worse. I think it just becomes more and more difficult to make things that are original or to take risks. But I'm really happy that there are still things happening. There's still some like really cool shows if you look around. I mean, especially Off-Broadway.

[39:04] Alex Wyse: Oh, yeah.

[39:04] Alan Seales: Like, I mean, Off-Broadway has had such an incredible year.

[39:08] Alex Wyse: A couple of years since COVID. Yeah, there's a huge resurgence of Off-Broadway.

[39:12] Alan Seales: And I'm so, I'm so happy to be a part of that. Happy to be a part of shows that are trying new things and that are still exciting, cool. I think Marcel on the Train is a very cool play that I think, yes, there's an educational element and yes, it deals with like capital T themes, but like it's so exciting. And I think it's filled with, I mean, me aside, it's filled with beautiful performances. And then I'm in it too. And I feel like the actors are just remarkable. The designers are, have done top tier work and it's gorgeous. So I'm just like, I'm just excited to be a part of people who are at the top of their artistic game and doing something that might be important, but like effing cool. That's what I think.

[40:07] Alan Seales: We're at a time now where most, if I was going to say most, if not all, but probably like there's only a handful left of people who survived the Holocaust are still alive.

[40:17] Alex Wyse: Yeah. We had a woman came to our show who is a 95 year old Holocaust survivor.

[40:24] Alan Seales: Wow.

[40:25] Alex Wyse: Right. And we were reflecting on, pardon me for not remembering her name in this moment. I feel like a crap person for blanking, but she was very, very lovely and was very moved by the show. And we got to talk to her and we were reflecting on, as a cast, we were talking after and we were like, gosh, isn't it incredible that the number of people who are quote unquote Holocaust survivors, that's not going to be a thing soon. Those people won't exist the further we go into the future. So all we can do though is do our best to tell this story. This is a play about how that particular story told by these particular people can reflect on all of these other stories that are still happening in the world. All of these injustices that are still happening in the world and these bursts of creativity that come out of injustices that can still happen in the world. So that's what I think is cool about the play. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[41:32] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the episode. What the constitution means to me.

[41:36] Alex Wyse: Sure. That was cool to be a part of.

[41:37] Alan Seales: That was cool to be a part of. What got you going with that? And will we see more constitution soon?

[41:45] Alex Wyse: Oh, I don't know. I mean, thankfully it's being licensed around the country now and Heidi Schreck has created a version of the show that can be performed by anyone, even though it originally included her autobiographical elements. Now there's a version of the show that can be done by anyone and has been performed all over the country. So that's very, very exciting. And I hope that that play continues to be seen. I was a small part of the original producing team on the play and I became a part of it because I saw it downtown and was like, I just felt like it woke me up in a way that a piece of theater hadn't done in a long time. I started making calls and asking how I can be involved, how I can help out. And I thankfully got to be a part of it. I don't know why. Something about it felt so urgent to me and it felt like it was speaking to a lot of the things that I care about in the world, a lot of the ways I've seen subjugation of women in the world and the generations of women in my family that have come before me. And I wanted to be a part of a story that was giving voice to that. So I don't want to pretend that it's like that that show was my doing or anything, but I'm really proud that I got to be at least tangentially associated with it. It's a really, really cool play and you can watch it now. It's on Prime. They did a taped version that's on Prime.

[43:14] Alan Seales: I want to watch that tonight. I didn't know that.

[43:16] Alex Wyse: And also you can read it or hopefully you can see a local production of it. So anyway, it was really cool to be a part of something in a different kind of way and to also learn about theater business through that. I also did it partially in a selfish way because that helped me learn about producing in a way that helped me create more of my own projects. So it kind of set me on a path to learn how to raise money and to learn about negotiations and to learn about acquiring theaters and all those kinds of things. And now I've even if I've that's the only show I've officially produced. But still, I acted as a producer on my current film, Actual Nobodies. I kind of shadow produced a little bit on my last film, Summoning Sylvia. I was a big part of the producing of Indoor Boys. So when things need to be done, it gave me more know-how to help those things happen so I can get my projects done. And maybe I'll be a part of another show in the future that I am not creatively involved with but can be producerally involved with. That can still potentially happen. I was excited about these new perspectives on this crazy business I find myself in.

[44:30] Alan Seales: Yeah, producing is such a loose term.

[44:34] Alex Wyse: Yeah, that's true. And I'm doing my first lead producing role now.

[44:37] Alan Seales: That's awesome. Doing what?

[44:38] Alex Wyse: When Playwrights Kill. With Beth Lovell and Matt Doyle.

[44:41] Alan Seales: Oh my god. Kevin Chamberlain and-

[44:43] Alex Wyse: That's amazing. Congratulations.

[44:44] Alan Seales: Thank you. And it's all just giving people a credit card to go spend some money and hoping they don't screw things up.

[44:50] Alex Wyse: It can be that.

[44:54] Alan Seales: No, we're doing our out of town in Boston, April 3rd through 18th at the Huntington Theatre.

[44:59] Alex Wyse: Alan, this is so cool. I didn't realize that you were-

[45:02] Alan Seales: We start rehearsal on Monday as we record this.

[45:06] Alex Wyse: Should I check my spam for the offer? Because I didn't see anything in my main inbox, but I can just check spam.

[45:12] Alan Seales: Yeah, sorry. It definitely went in your promotions tab.

[45:15] Alex Wyse: Ah, it's promotions. This has happened to me before. This is why I wasn't in Names 10,000 Shows.

[45:23] Alan Seales: But yes, producing can mean many things. It can mean you write a large check and show up to collect an award if it wins one, or it can mean you write a large check and get to meet your favorite actor. Or it can mean you're a part of the fundraising.

[45:38] Alex Wyse: Or it means you're part of the fundraising.

[45:39] Alan Seales: It can mean that you help do the day-to-day tasks to keep the show running in terms of money allocation and managing the theatre.

[45:49] Alex Wyse: I mean, a lot of it is, depending on how you're structured, yeah. It could be a CEO or a co-CEO of a company, because it is a company that you form when you're creating these entities, right? These productions.

[45:59] Alan Seales: I am a part of six LLCs.

[46:01] Alex Wyse: Right, right.

[46:02] Alan Seales: It's awful for my taxes.

[46:04] Alex Wyse: Right, yeah. I'm like, damn it! Stop making projects!

[46:07] Alan Seales: Yeah, disaster.

[46:09] Alex Wyse: It's so much fun. And along those lines, too, I feel so in line with you in that I just have to create. It's just something in every way possible. I'm like, I want to write. I want to record. I want to edit. I want to help other people shape their work. I want to bring in $1.6 billion in capitalization so we could do this wonderful out-of-town comedy. All of this stuff is such a different part of your brain, but at the same time, it's all at the end. What exactly we were talking about at the beginning was just this obsession to create.

[46:40] Alex Wyse: Yeah.

[46:40] Alan Seales: And I don't feel complete at the end of the day unless I've made something.

[46:44] Alex Wyse: I agree. I think it makes the tough parts of the day a lot less tough.

[46:49] Alan Seales: Yes.

[46:50] Alex Wyse: And speaking to the young actors out there, whenever I'm making something, whenever I'm writing a scene or something, I care a lot less whether or not my agent sends me an audition or if I got that job on that show or whatever. I just care so much less. It feels so much smaller to me. Whatever it is, I think we all have to do things for ourselves to survive this business that make the tough parts of the business feel smaller. My particular way is by writing, by directing. That's what does it for me. It brings a whole host of other stresses into my life, believe me. But it does make the pain of waiting to be selected as an actor, it makes that pain manageable.

[47:37] Alan Seales: Because you're still working. And if you're not stressing about the audition, then if you don't get it, it's that much better.

[47:45] Alex Wyse: Right. It doesn't matter.

[47:46] Alan Seales: Yeah, it doesn't matter because you're still doing things.

[47:48] Alex Wyse: Yeah, I don't care if I didn't get it. I don't care if I got it. I wasn't supposed to get that job. I was supposed to work on my thing and then another thing will come.

[47:54] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[47:55] Alex Wyse: Right?

[47:55] Alan Seales: I like that a lot. That's good advice. All right. So as we wind down here, we're going to play plot in 60 seconds.

[48:01] Alex Wyse: Okay.

[48:01] Alan Seales: We got 60 seconds up on the screen. I have 17 musicals listed in front of me.

[48:05] Alex Wyse: Uh-oh.

[48:05] Alan Seales: You're going to give me a number, one through 17, which will correspond to a musical on my list. I will tell you what you picked. You give me that plot in 60 seconds or less.

[48:10] Alex Wyse: I have to tell you the plot of a musical?

[48:15] Alan Seales: In 60 seconds or less.

[48:18] Alex Wyse: And if I don't know the musical, then-

[48:20] Alan Seales: Then you better make it up.

[48:22] Alex Wyse: Okay.

[48:22] Alan Seales: One through 17.

[48:24] Alex Wyse: 10.

[48:24] Alan Seales: 10 is The Lion King. Go.

[48:27] Alex Wyse: Okay. I just saw The Lion King like a month ago with my little niece and nephew. This is part of the plot.

[48:33] Alex Wyse: Okay. So there is a lion.

[48:37] Alex Wyse: First off, it's Hamlet. And there's a lion who-

[48:42] Alan Seales: 45 seconds already?

[48:43] Alex Wyse: Okay.

[48:44] Alex Wyse: The mask work.

[48:46] Alex Wyse: The lighting.

[48:47] Alan Seales: How's this? Is this good?

[48:48] Alex Wyse: This is great. Great pitch.

[48:50] Alex Wyse: Yeah.

[48:50] Alex Wyse: So Scar wants to be the king. He kills Mufasa, and then Scar overtakes the land, and it is up to Simba, who is Mufasa's son, lion's son, to grow up to be the king he was always meant to be, and to own his power, and to overthrow Scar, and take back Pride Rock.

[49:13] Alex Wyse: So my niece and nephew can have a really nice time at the theater.

[49:19] Alan Seales: And that's the plot of The Lion King.

[49:21] Alex Wyse: All right.

[49:22] Alan Seales: All right. I might not invest in that.

[49:25] Alex Wyse: Oh, well, let me tell you your mistake, because it's made billions.

[49:30] Alan Seales: That's fair. Very fair.

[49:31] Alan Seales: All right. Three standard closing questions.

[49:33] Alex Wyse: Okay.

[49:34] Alan Seales: To wrap up every episode, first one simply is just what motivates you?

[49:39] Alex Wyse: I guess you'll have to cut down this long pause.

[49:42] Alex Wyse: I don't know. I feel like, didn't I just talk about that for an hour?

[49:45] Alan Seales: Yes.

[49:46] Alex Wyse: But let's see. In brief, what motivates me is getting rid of any pain that I feel inside of me by turning it into action, positive action.

[50:02] Alan Seales: All right. I like that. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now, starting out down a similar path?

[50:09] Alex Wyse: Wow. The more you surround yourself with people who inspire you, the better life is going to be. And I would also advise you to beware of narcissists. If there are people who make you feel like you have to be smaller. I've encountered a lot of people like that in my life. People who make me feel like I have to shrink myself in order to be tolerable. Then that's actually the wrong person for you to be around. Their view on you is actually not correct. What's correct is that you need to shine as brightly as you possibly can.

[50:51] Alan Seales: All right. Last question. Hardest one. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you could see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[50:57] Alex Wyse: Well, that's a nice question. You know what I would choose right now? Illinois.

[51:01] Alan Seales: Mm-hmm.

[51:03] Alex Wyse: That was one of my favorite shows I've seen in years. And I saw it on Broadway four times, which is the most I think I've ever gone to see a show as a fan.

[51:16] Alan Seales: Wow.

[51:16] Alex Wyse: I loved how much story I got with not a word spoken. I loved how deeply it made me feel. I loved how beautiful it looked. And I loved how much it made me think about my inner child and the parts of me that are still hurting and looking for connection. And it helped those parts of me heal. I think Illinois is one of the most special things I've ever seen in my life.

[51:43] Alan Seales: Wow. I love that.

[51:44] Alex Wyse: Yeah, that's my answer.

[51:45] Alan Seales: All right. Where can we connect with you online and stream your film in a year and all the places, all the things?

[51:51] Alex Wyse: Well, connect with me online. I don't know. I hate the internet. I guess I'm on Instagram at AlexJwise. I don't care if you follow me. It's not interesting. Don't follow me. In fact, don't follow me. I dare you not to.

[52:07] Alan Seales: Yeah, don't follow me. I don't want you to follow me.

[52:10] Alex Wyse: And you can rent my first film, Summoning Sylvia. You can rent it anywhere. You can see Indoor Boys on HERE TV. You can see Marcel on the Train at Classic Stage Company playing through March 22nd. And you can check out the film Actual Nobodies when it comes out in the coming life.

[52:36] Alan Seales: In the coming life.

[52:37] Alex Wyse: Yeah.

[52:38] Alan Seales: And hopefully there will be more places to connect with me, but those are just a few.

[52:42] Alex Wyse: There will be so many. I can tell you're just going to keep going until you can't goes no more.

[52:47] Alan Seales: Thanks.

[52:47] Alex Wyse: Yeah.

[52:49] Alan Seales: You can get me on Instagram, threads, TikTok, Facebook, all the places. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm out there. Leave a rating, leave a review. Special thanks to WelcomeToTimesSquare.com for the lovely use of this studio. And thanks to JukeboxTheGhost for the intro and outro music. And thanks to Alex Wyse for opening up his mind and his soul and giving us this convo.

[53:12] Alex Wyse: Thanks, Alan. I'm really happy to talk to you.

[53:13] Alan Seales: Thank you. It's good to see you again.

[53:15] Alex Wyse: You too.