This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:30] Susan Blackwell: Welcome to The Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart, creative people don't go it alone.

[0:43] Laura Camien: I'm Laura Camien.

[0:45] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell. And we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

[0:51] Susan Blackwell: Hey, you should know that just by listening to this podcast, all you have to do is listen and you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives. But you also may be asking yourself, what exactly is a Spark File?

[1:05] Susan Blackwell: A Spark File is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations. Every episode, we're going to reach into our very own Spark Files, and we're going to share some sparks. And you never know, from time to time, we may even talk to some folks who spark us too.

[1:23] Susan Blackwell: And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own. So without further ado, let's open up The Spark File.

[1:35] Laura Camien: Susan, that was lovely.

[1:39] Susan Blackwell: Laura and I were talking before we jumped onto the podcast. So listener, please jump into our conversation in progress. We were talking about some of our favorite recent moments in the Spark File creative community. And Laura was asking me about our cabaret car on Tuesday in Creativity Lab.

[1:59] Laura Camien: Because Laura, you chose to stay in the quiet car.

[2:02] Susan Blackwell: I stayed in the quiet car, which when we say train cars, friends, we really mean breakout rooms. So one of them is called the quiet car, and you can just focus and screens on, screen off, whatever you want. But focus for 90 minutes or however long you can stay and get your work done.

[2:19] Susan Blackwell: The other car is the cabaret car for things to be shared out loud, anything, songs, stand-up, pages of your novel, your script, et cetera. And I wasn't in there, and so I did hear a little rumor about Eric playing some Amy Mann music in there, and I wanted to know.

[2:40] Laura Camien: Yes.

[2:41] Susan Blackwell: Yes, Laura. Tell me everything.

[2:43] Laura Camien: Yes. So it was a great night in the cabaret car. We had quite a few people reading new writing, reading existing writing that they just wanted to give it a spin, to take a risk, say something out loud. But Eric Lee covered an Amy Mann song on guitar, and he said it was an experiment to determine if he felt as nervous playing his own original compositions as he felt playing somebody else's work.

[3:15] Susan Blackwell: So Eric Lee, playing his own work, contribute extra risk, extra adrenaline to the proceedings.

[3:20] Laura Camien: Yeah, higher level of fear or resistance.

[3:24] Susan Blackwell: So he was like a scientist running an experiment—

[3:27] Laura Camien: I love it.

[3:28] Susan Blackwell: Using an Amy Mann song, and he played it, and then he was like, meh, it's about the same. And I was like, that's actually news you can use because you can work with that, you can account for that, that you know when, you know, at least the first song when you play out sometimes will have that extra adrenaline in it.

[3:48] Laura Camien: But the bonus for all of us is we got to hear this fantastic cover of an Amy Mann song.

[3:54] Susan Blackwell: I love it when artists can play scientists, like really switch your brain over to this is just an experiment. I'm going to run an experiment and find out if A, B, or C. Because it can be that, it really can be that for ourselves. Everything doesn't have to be like make or break.

[4:16] Laura Camien: And full of fear and terror.

[4:18] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, it was great. That spark file creative community. I love it.

[4:23] Laura Camien: I love it too. Check it out. Go to thesparkfile.com and you can try it for two weeks for free. See if it's for you. Come hang out with us. See what happens. You never know.

[4:34] Susan Blackwell: Laura, you've got a spark for me.

[4:39] Laura Camien: I am so stupid excited about this spark, Laura. Again, as we say almost every episode, the world is just nuts right now. And I am seeking sparks that are playful and fun and sort of just a little bit of antidote to some of the heavier stresses that we're experiencing right now.

[5:04] Susan Blackwell: I'm totally into this. Please give me some joy and lightness.

[5:09] Laura Camien: So this is sort of a confession. Not really, but it follows up to the spark that I did on dopamine reset when I was just like, well, I really there was a long period of time where I got into TikTok and then I had to get on out of TikTok. But this is a companion to that. A few months ago, I realized something slightly horrifying about my creative life.

[5:36] Laura Camien: I realized how out of balance I was. I was spending a lot of time being creative, making this podcast, writing curriculum, building our community, all these great things. But I wasn't really dedicating any time to feeding my creativity.

[5:59] Laura Camien: I was doing so much in support of creativity, writing, producing, planning, solving problems, answering emails, being responsible, being present, holding space, being professional, all in support of creativity. And that's awesome. But my inner artist, my little curious, playful weirdo, the part that actually can generate ideas was basically sitting in a corner scrolling on TikTok.

[6:28] Laura Camien: And if that sounds like you, I invite you to refer to our dopamine reset episode. So things felt very out of balance. Like I was asking a lot of my creative output, but I was not doing much to care for, feed, or restore my creative wellspring. My little pond of creativity was way overfished.

[6:49] Laura Camien: So if you have ever felt creatively dry, blocked, or cranky, or like you've driven too long with your creative tank on E, this spark goes out to you. And this spark centers on the brilliant concept known as the artist's date.

[7:18] Susan Blackwell: I love it already.

[7:20] Laura Camien: It's a classic. I'm just going to let it wash over me.

[7:24] Laura Camien: So if you're not familiar, you might be asking, what is an artist's date? The concept of the artist's date comes from the great author, teacher, and creativity expert Julia Cameron, who wrote a book in 1992 called The Artist's Way.

[7:40] Laura Camien: Now if you hang out with creative people long enough, you are eventually going to see this book on somebody's bookshelf, or someone will say something like, have you done The Artist's Way? It really changed my life. Susan, did you ever do The Artist's Way?

[7:55] Susan Blackwell: I have done it many times. It changed my life.

[7:59] Laura Camien: It's life changing. I think the first time in college.

[8:04] Susan Blackwell: Every time I've worked through The Artist's Way, because it's like a workbook, something big happens. Because you meet it as who you are now, as a new person.

[8:14] Laura Camien: Every single time, right? It's a, I would say a seminal book on creativity. Before the book existed, Julia Cameron taught folks about creativity, and doing that work and teaching workshops to artists who felt blocked, she discovered something profound.

[8:33] Susan Blackwell: She realized creativity isn't just about output. It's also about input.

[8:41] Laura Camien: Artists who are constantly trying to produce work, but they had stopped doing the things that inspire the work and feed the work. So she created this concept of the artist state.

[8:56] Susan Blackwell: Do you mean like you can't apply your imagination if your imagination isn't activated?

[9:03] Laura Camien: It's not activated. It's not fed. It's not cultivated.

[9:06] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. It's a little bit like the spark cycle. It's an ecosystem. You can get really imbalanced. What is going to get us back into balance? It's an artist state, and her definition is so simple. It's so elegant. An artist state is a block of time, about two hours, once a week, set aside to nurture your creative consciousness and your inner artist.

[9:30] Laura Camien: In other words, you take yourself out on a date with your creativity.

[9:38] Susan Blackwell: Now, when I first read about this concept in Julia Cameron's book, The Artist's Way, I had a very introverted and perfectionist and productive reaction.

[9:50] Laura Camien: Do tell me more.

[9:53] Susan Blackwell: Do tell me. What does that look like, that reaction?

[9:55] Susan Blackwell: Well, there was a real anxiety around it. The introvert in me thought, oh my God, I've got to leave the house and take my weird self out solo, which felt awkward. My perfectionist self thought, am I doing this right? Am I doing this right? Is this how I'm supposed to be doing it? Am I doing it right?

[10:20] Laura Camien: My productive self wondered how I might be able to optimize or multitask my artist's states.

[10:28] Susan Blackwell: Got a lot happening there. That's a lot to put on the tiny creative shoulders of your little inner weirdo. But I did, I thought, could this be educational? Should it involve culture? Can there be a learning outcome? And I think if Julia Cameron were here on Mike with us, I think that she would say, no, your inner artist is like a kid. Take it somewhere fun.

[10:55] Laura Camien: That is the assignment.

[10:57] Susan Blackwell: That is the whole assignment and it has to be solo. So the first time I tried this was way back in 1994, I'm going to say, and recently after a long hiatus, I reinstated my commitment to artist's states. And I started by taking myself to breakfast on my own, no agenda, no goal.

[11:26] Susan Blackwell: And this is important for me, no scrolling. When Julia Cameron wrote The Artist's Way, cell phones did not exist. And her big thing when it first came out was no reading. Can't put your face in a book. And I've updated that for no scrolling. Laura, before I go any further, talk to me about you and artist's states.

[11:50] Susan Blackwell: I loved them. And I think, yes, at that time, at that age, I was also like, by myself? Like by myself? And what was so awesome, once I got over that initial response, I felt like, oh, I have permission to go and eat by myself at a restaurant. I have permission to go see movies by myself. Now I can't even tell you. Like I embraced that so wholeheartedly. I'm like, I'm going to that movie by myself. I don't care who else wants to go. I'm not even going to ask anybody. I'm going by myself. And it probably changed me in more ways than I imagined. You know, because that, the impact of empowerment to go and be alone in the world, out on an adventure, see where the day takes you. That felt pretty phenomenal. Yeah, it is a really, really distinct sensation that I get. I do still notice in myself the desire to have a plan. Even when my plan when I leave the house is, I'm going to wander. I think that's okay.

[13:10] Laura Camien: That is the plan. Yeah. But I still will fight against my brain being like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to go to, let's go to 23rd first. And then we'll walk up to, you know, we'll walk over to the river. And then I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. It's not about a plan. It's not about a plan. So those things are, it's interesting to observe oneself when given freedom. To translate that into Jill Bolte-Taylor, Whole Brain Living, it's like your character plan is just like, no, the most efficient way will be if we go to 23rd, then we cross over on 6th. And what I think Julia Cameron wants for us is so much more character three, like so much more play. So much more. And now I find that if I have the time and I'm just out walking, I find it to be so fun to be like, okay, so my plan is to just be guided by whatever instinct.

So I might like look down the street and be like, oh, I've never walked on this street before. Or, oh, look at that door on that apartment is so fricking interesting. I've got to, it's telling me to turn down this street, you know, and then just agree to follow the impulses.

[14:22] Susan Blackwell: Do you know what that reminds me of, Laura?

[14:23] Laura Camien: What?

[14:24] Susan Blackwell: I think I can count on one hand. And in fact, I remember only one specific example of a time when I was walking in Manhattan, broad daylight, I was walking on the West Side Highway, I turned onto a street and I could see not a soul in the middle of a New York City day. And I was like, no.

[14:51] Laura Camien: That would be an impulse to turn around and go the other way.

[14:55] Susan Blackwell: That's right. But you know what I love about it? It's still about following your intuition. I'm so into it. The feeling that I have observed in myself with this new relationship with Art Estates is like, it's slightly different than pleasure. It's pleased. I'm so pleased with myself that I did this, like I got out of the house, that I'm having this experience, that I'm having this beautiful, this beautiful glass of tea. It's pleasure, but it's also pleased. And I have observed how when you are solo and when you are just not scrolling, you're not reading and you're simply present to the world with a little bit of curiousness and a little curiosity, I think they call it, and a little bit of playfulness. Those do start popping into my head and connections do begin to appear. And I remember something that I forget and I have to relearn and relearn and relearn, which is that curiosity and openness is like rocket fuel for creativity.

[16:12] Laura Camien: Yes.

[16:13] Susan Blackwell: And I forget it and I have to relearn it. And to me, I'm obsessed with just how quickly, I think even pre-pandemic, we did a podcast about boredom.

[16:24] Laura Camien: Yes. Laura, I think about it all the time. That podcast, Your Spark on Boredom, I think about it all the time because I want to run screaming from it.

[16:38] Susan Blackwell: And everyone does. And our tolerance for boredom has gotten so small because we have so many things that we can, even if we're not scrolling, we can put on a podcast, we can put things into our brain rather than the idea of like clearing it out, letting it be empty so that ideas can emerge from within.

[17:02] Laura Camien: Why am I so resistant to it? I'm resistant to it like a hot burner when I'm just like, it's just boredom and you need to go there.

[17:11] Susan Blackwell: It's just your own thoughts. I mean, really, if you ask yourself, what are we afraid of? Being alone with our own thoughts.

[17:18] Laura Camien: I guess.

[17:19] Susan Blackwell: Well, what's in here that's so scary, like grab a flashlight and look around.

[17:24] Laura Camien: Yeah. Like go into the haunted house, but it's not a haunted house. That's the crazy thing.

[17:29] Susan Blackwell: It's not.

[17:30] Laura Camien: It's not a haunted house.

[17:31] Susan Blackwell: It's where you live.

[17:32] Laura Camien: I guess for some people it's a haunted house.

[17:33] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, but it's your own mind. It's literally the home you live within. So I'm fascinated by how almost immediately effective this artist date situation is, like how quickly it was delightful and how quickly it was like, oh, I almost feel like I'm getting away with something is another way of saying how I feel where I'm just like, oh, look at me. I'm in a restaurant.

[18:01] Laura Camien: Like skipping school or something.

[18:03] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[18:04] Laura Camien: Playing hockey or something.

[18:05] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Yeah. That is how it feels. But when you think about it or you look back and you think about how creativity happens in childhood, kids are constantly exploring. They're poking things with sticks. They collect weird objects. They just squat down and stare at bugs. They draw nonsense. They wander. But in adulthood, I do think that gets replaced. Productivity, deadlines, responsibility, optimization. I study on these things. And so I think it really can cancel out and tamp down some of that. Just like poking a bug with a stick.

[18:48] Laura Camien: I agree.

[18:49] Susan Blackwell: That's good. Let's call that the name of this podcast, poking a bug with a stick.

[18:55] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[18:56] Susan Blackwell: I agree, Susan. And I mean, there are many people who are studying now how we're in real danger that kids today are not actually doing the things that we did.

[19:09] Laura Camien: Yeah. And how fucked up that is developmentally.

[19:13] Susan Blackwell: Exactly. How detrimental. But I do remember and I think we've had this conversation where, you know, if you're not thinking it yourself, someone else will probably pop the question to you. Like, what are you going to do with that?

[19:27] Laura Camien: What are you going to do with that?

[19:28] Susan Blackwell: And how are you going to make money? What good is that going to do you?

[19:31] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[19:32] Susan Blackwell: I'm like, wow, when did this become the barometer for like, so every ounce of our time must be spent on something that can be monetized? We must remember creativity still requires the same raw material it always has. Novelty and play. Novelty and play. And artist states, I think the reason why they're so effective is that they reintroduce novelty and play. And creativity research supports this. Psychologists studying the incubation effect, which is a phenomenon in creative cognition developed by British social psychologist and economist Graham Wallace. When psychologists study the incubation effect, they find that creative breakthroughs often happen when we step away from focused work and we expose ourselves to new experiences. The brain needs time to wander, Laura Kamien. And if it doesn't want to go to 23rd and cross over to 6th, you want to let it. You want to let it.

[20:38] Laura Camien: Let it wander.

[20:39] Susan Blackwell: I mean, stay safe, everybody, but let it wander. One of my favorite things about artist states is that when you look back through history, you realize artists have been doing their own version of artist states forever. The novelist Charles Dickens used to walk miles and miles through London every day, sometimes up to 20 miles. And he would just wander through the streets observing people and neighborhoods and characters. And apparently those walks inspired characters in his novels. And look, that bitch walked up to 20 miles a day and he still got tons of stuff done. So don't tell me I don't have time for an artist state. The painter Georgia O'Keeffe apparently took solitary walks through the New Mexico desert, collecting bones and stones.

Just like a kid, collecting little treasures. And she said those quiet explorations shaped many of her paintings. The musician David Bowie was famous for visiting art galleries, experimental theater, strange little cultural spaces in whatever city he happened to be in. And those adventures influenced his albums. None of these artists were technically working during those moments. They were just filling the well. They're just filling the well.

[22:02] Laura Camien: Filling the well. Did I tell you that when my nephew Joe came to visit, one of my favorite things that we did, we of course packed the trip with theater shows and movies and all the regular stuff, which I love. But Joe was also like, can we go on some photography walks? I was like, excuse me, let me dig under 17 piles of storage to get my camera. Like my actual camera. Heck yeah, we can do that. And Joe brought his camera and I had mine, which was also great to be using a camera not attached to a phone.

[22:49] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[22:50] Laura Camien: So it wasn't just like-

[22:51] Susan Blackwell: That's phenomenal.

[22:52] Laura Camien: Hold on a second. I just got a text. Let me just read this message, blah, blah, blah. It's just like we are equipped with our cameras and off we go.

[23:01] Susan Blackwell: Fabulous.

[23:02] Laura Camien: That's so good. That's a really, really good one. Let's talk about the strict rules of the artist state. Laura may have just violated one, but that's okay. We're going to give her a pass.

[23:13] Susan Blackwell: Joe was with me, number one. Rule number one is you go alone. So you've broken the first rule of artist states. Don't talk about artist states. But seriously, you go solo and this can, if you're anything like me, feel slightly awkward or vulnerable at first. But the reason for this rule is important. If you bring someone else, your experience becomes social. And the whole point is to listen to your own voice.

[23:40] Susan Blackwell: And I will also say to listen to what is rising up. So one of the things I love about Artist Dates is you can't turn to anyone and say, "Oh my God, look at that woman's hat." You just have to sit with yourself and be like, or if you have your camera, you can record it, but it's sort of like you are holding your own counsel. And I think that there's something about that that feels like you're putting things into the well, turning to someone saying, "Look at that woman's hat," and then it discharges it. If your experience is anything like mine, those solo feelings of awkwardness or vulnerability can give way again to satisfaction or feeling very pleased or almost like, I was trying to find language for this and I was like, it's almost like pride again, like I'm getting away with something or playing hooky. I don't know. Rule number two, it should feel slightly frivolous. If it feels productive, you might just be running errands. I've probably broken that one a few times too.

[24:45] Laura Camien: Yeah, I'm sure I have.

[24:46] Susan Blackwell: Rule number three, follow what fascinates you. That's the compass, what fascinates you. So what makes for a great Artist Date? The best ones include at least one of these ingredients: beauty, novelty, play, sensory experience, curiosity. For example, go wander an art museum, visit a flea market, walk through a botanical garden, browse a toy store, explore a neighborhood you've never been to, sit in a cafe and watch people, try a food you've never tasted before. One of my favorite recent Artist Dates was getting my library card from our local library. And I had to go to two libraries to figure out which was the correct library. I talked to a lot of nice people. I met a lady with a dog. I held the door for a really, really fabulous woman who was a great character. But these are the kinds of things, because I was on an Artist Date and I was just following curiosity.

[25:48] Laura Camien: I'm just going to do it.

[25:49] Susan Blackwell: It was great. It also felt a little productive there. Borderline.

[25:53] Laura Camien: Borderline.

[25:54] Susan Blackwell: I didn't have a strong attachment to the outcome, but I will tell you, it's something that I had wanted to do for a long time and had never done it. And I was like, "I want to do this. It'd be fun." And I spent a lot of time looking at the architecture of the library, even the library where I couldn't check out a book, just browsing the shelves. I picked up an old copy of Mad Magazine. I haven't read Mad Magazine in years, but I used to read it religiously as a child and just read really dumb Mad Magazine cartoons. I'm going to say it was very light on productivity, Laura.

[26:29] Laura Camien: Awesome.

[26:30] Susan Blackwell: Awesome. Another Artist Date that I experienced recently that was so fun was I happened upon an antique liquidation warehouse. So these guys bought from a lifelong antique seller, they bought an entire warehouse and storefront and the guy was like, "You can buy the building, but I don't want any of the contents. They're yours now and you have to deal with them." And they are just selling off all of these really, really weird antiquities. And I was looking through the storefront and I was like, "This is so interesting and weird." And they were like, "There's a whole warehouse in the back and you go through this door to an unheated warehouse." And I just wandered. It was like Citizen Kane. I wandered aisles in a warehouse that went up to the ceiling of stuff and I was like, "What is this?"

And then I went back out to the front and I was like, "Can you just answer some questions for me? What is that thing? It looks like this. It looks like a torture device. What is that?" And they're like, "Oh, that is an ancient tool used for weaving." And I was like, "What's the thing that just looks like a pokey stick?" And they're like, "Oh, that's like a primitive pitchfork." And I was just like, "Fascinating. It was fascinating."

[27:53] Laura Camien: How much for the pokey stick?

[27:54] Susan Blackwell: What do you take for five pokey sticks? That's what everybody's getting in their stocking, pokey sticks.

[28:01] Laura Camien: So excited.

[28:02] Susan Blackwell: But I will say, nothing productive happened. I did have fun. Ideas started to bubble up about things that I wanted to make. So I found vessels for candles that I want to use to host a candle making party. Laura, you're invited to the candle making party. Listeners, if you can hear this, you might be invited to the candle making party. If you're part of the Smartphile community, you have a better shot at it.

[28:31] Laura Camien: Oh, that's so good.

[28:36] Susan Blackwell: It was huge. And all it was, was I went to two libraries. I took myself to breakfast. I wandered the halls of a very weird, dusty, antique liquidation warehouse. But it was restorative, is an understatement. It was really, really remarkable.

[28:56] Laura Camien: Oh, I love that so much. Laura, do you have any artists, not to put you on the spot if you don't, but any artist dates that are particular favorites or top hits for you that you've just loved?

[29:09] Laura Camien: Well, I mean, they really sound sort of indulgent. I like an extended alone artist date. Like if I could go to a hotel by myself for a full 24, 48 hours and no offense to anybody because I love so many people.

[29:29] Susan Blackwell: No, it's not about that.

[29:34] Laura Camien: Maybe not talk to anyone. Now, I would break some rules, I'm sure, because I probably would read and I probably would write, you know, during that time. But the quietness of it is something that I long for.

[29:51] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[29:52] Laura Camien: But then other things, this is, I'm breaking a rule here with productivity. So I do apologize for this. But some of my favorite artist dates in the past, so I don't think I've ever talked about this on the podcast, but I used to make handmade tops. They were kind of halter tops out of 100% vintage fabric and it could be vintage handkerchiefs, vintage aprons, vintage linens. And so one thing that was really fun for me is like go to estate sales and just clear my brain and just like wander and look. And my brain would always be like, "Those curtains, could that pattern and that fabric go with, yeah, that could go with this and this could go with that," and just be kind of in a zone of finding these fabrics. I think finding the materials for the tops was just as satisfying and fun as the making of them.

[31:03] Susan Blackwell: That is so spark seeking. It's so good.

[31:05] Laura Camien: Loved it.

[31:06] Susan Blackwell: So what do we make of it?

[31:07] Laura Camien: Yeah. What do we make of it, Sue? Besides candles and halter tops, what do we make of it? Well, maybe if you're listening to the sound of my voice, if you're looking at my face on social media, maybe this week, schedule two hours, put it on your calendar, take yourself somewhere that's interesting to you. Maybe it's a museum, but maybe it's not. Maybe you're like, "Museums feel like rickety rackety, rusty dusty." Maybe it's a weird little shop or a neighborhood you haven't been to.

[31:39] Susan Blackwell: Yes. Maybe it's a walk somewhere beautiful and just follow curiosity because creativity, it often appears when we do something very simple. We just make space to wander and to wonder. And sometimes that space begins with something as small as taking your creativity out on a date, an artist date. Get into it.

[32:08] Laura Camien: I love it.

[32:09] Susan Blackwell: And special thanks to Julia Cameron. Thank you, Julia Cameron for your work. What a life changer she has been to me and to Laura and to so many creatives.

[32:20] Laura Camien: Amen to that.

[32:23] Susan Blackwell: Amen. Susan, I love this spark so much. And you just made me think about this term artist date. You know, sometimes we've had mentors and teachers, whether it be about money or other things, and they will often ask the question like, "Well, why don't you ask money what money thinks of your relationship?" And we're like, "Oh, money thinks that I am hot and cold. We are off and on money. Money thinks I neglect them or any of the above." But when you think about it in this way, like if you think about your creativity and you ask yourself like, "Well, how would my creativity describe our relationship? Am I consistently there for it? Am I nurturing it? Do I take it on dates? Do I plan it and do I take care of it and make sure like that this happens and I'm consistent?" Just something to think about.

[33:21] Laura Camien: Yeah. My creativity for a long time would be like, "Oh, you're asking a lot and you're taking a lot. And how about a little reciprocity?" And so now I'm tending to that, my relationship with creativity.

[33:35] Susan Blackwell: I love it, Suze. This is a great spark. Thank you so much.

[33:39] Laura Camien: A classic. Friends, I think that's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people. And as always, we hope it put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, there's a spark you'd like us to explore. Or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to clarify and accomplish your creative goals, you can email getcreative at thesparkfile.com or reach us through our website, thesparkfile.com or just go to thesparkfile.com and get into the Spark File creative community. Zip, zap. There you are.

[34:14] Laura Camien: Zip, zap. That's where it's at.

[34:16] Susan Blackwell: Zap. We will happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. You have to share a creative risk that you've taken recently.

[34:24] Laura Camien: You can follow us on social at The Spark File and be sure to subscribe, rate, and five-star review this podcast. It really helps other listeners to find us. If you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, turn it off immediately and go take yourself on an artist date.

[34:41] Susan Blackwell: I love it. If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[34:55] Laura Camien: You know you got to take it and make it.

[35:16] Susan Blackwell: I jump into my Spark File. Let's open up the Spark File.