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[0:00] Bobby Steggert: I'm Bobby Steggart, and this is The Quiet Part Out Loud.

[0:15] Bobby Steggert: Our inner child holds all of our fear. It also holds all of our hope. And isn't that the dichotomy of childhood? The time in our lives where we're free enough to play with abandon and to imagine all of the possibilities, both magical and terrifying. It's also the time prior to when many of our internal parts, our protectors and defenses, the whole point of this show, come online in our psyches to distance us from these boundless capacities and begin to put on guardrails as we learn about the thorny ways of life. My friend Lonnie Price, who you've heard on the show this season, likes to send me quotes. I love them too. He recently sent this one, which so perfectly articulates this very process we all go through as we grow into adulthood.

The original shimmering self gets buried so deep that most of us end up hardly living out of it at all. Instead, we live out of all of the other selves that we constantly put on and take off like coats and hats against the world's weather. One could say that that original shimmering self is the child version of all of us before life has weathered us.

[1:28] Bobby Steggert: Now, I've been waiting for a guest to suggest the inner child as the part they wanted to explore on the show, and it feels so right that this week's episode is with Nicholas Barasch, a young actor now starring in Pirates on Broadway, and who I've known and admired since he was a literal child, first appearing on Broadway at the age of 10. There's a generational divide between us, but from the moment I met him, I so related to him, this serious, earnest, talented little boy who grew up on the stage, just like I did 20 years earlier. The irony is that in our conversation about childhood, Nicholas shares a most evolved perspective on his current life, and to my great honor, opens up on this platform about aspects of himself that he has never shared publicly. His story is ultimately one in which the inner child was just too afraid to truly express himself, and how becoming a professional actor at such a young age complicated matters far beyond that.

[2:31] Bobby Steggert: What we both agree on is that it is only through the embracing of that scared little child in each of us that freedom is ever possible again. You'll also hear that we're together in the same space in this episode; he happens to be my neighbor, and you'll hear it entirely changes the way the conversation feels. It's a lot more extemporaneous, and while the sound is a little less professional, it's something I'll work on for the future. But as this isn't a visual medium, we do discuss an image that you won't be able to see. If you'd like to reference the picture we're discussing, you can go to quietpartoutloudpod on Instagram, where I've posted the picture. What you'll find is an image of the inner children in all of us, kept hidden away, but longing for comfort.

[3:23] Nicholas Barasch: So I think I told you the first part I ever played was Frederick.

[3:25] Bobby Steggert: Yes.

[3:26] Nicholas Barasch: And I had a baby blue bandana over my head.

[3:30] Bobby Steggert: Oh my god.

[3:31] Nicholas Barasch: But is there the only thing I remember, I was 10 years old, the only thing I remember is a lyric about cat-like tread.

[3:37] Bobby Steggert: Yes.

[3:38] Nicholas Barasch: What is that?

[3:39] Bobby Steggert: Cat-like tread happens to be the number where we're all kicking our faces, and it would be huge.

[3:43] Nicholas Barasch: Is it like, they're like police?

[3:44] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, but the idea is that the pirates are really quiet, like with cat-like tread, but the joke is that we're all singing like Forte, so there's no cat-like tread.

[3:53] Nicholas Barasch: And there's something about a paradox?

[3:55] Bobby Steggert: Yep, the paradox is that Frederick was born on leap day, so he's really five years old and not 21.

[4:01] Nicholas Barasch: Okay, I see.

[4:03] Bobby Steggert: Because they're like, actually, legally, you were apprenticed to us until you reached your 21st birthday, and you're really technically fine, and Frederick's so duty-bound, and he's like, oh my god, you're right, I have to be a pirate for 67 more years, like that's the plot.

[4:15] Nicholas Barasch: Oh, he's that pure?

[4:16] Bobby Steggert: Yeah, he's that committed to duty. Talk about inner child.

[4:19] Nicholas Barasch: Oh, so I want to show you something. So I was at therapy, my therapy this morning, and I was waiting in a waiting room, and I looked up and saw this picture, which I've never seen before. I guess it's not a visual medium, so I'll describe it. It's like a huge sculpture, a picture of a sculpture, and it's two people, obviously in conflict, sitting back to back.

[4:41] Bobby Steggert: Oh, I'm just getting it now.

[4:43] Nicholas Barasch: And that's made of wiring, so you can see inside of their bodies, and then internal to their bodies, there are these two beautiful children reaching towards each other, wanting connection.

[4:52] Bobby Steggert: Ooh, wow.

[4:55] Nicholas Barasch: And that's their inner children.

[4:57] Bobby Steggert: Yeah. What do you get from that?

[4:59] Nicholas Barasch: Oh, yeah, it's interesting. I can almost see it inverted, too, of the adults reaching towards each other, and the kids kind of turned away, being sad and not knowing what to do. Because I do think the inner child, yeah, absolutely wants that pure connection, but also is struggling, and needs an adult to be like, hey.

[5:22] Bobby Steggert: That's so right. The inner child is afraid.

[5:24] Nicholas Barasch: So afraid.

[5:25] Bobby Steggert: So, what I want to say to you up front is, I'm so impressed and grateful that you wanted to talk about your inner child, because so many people, they talked about something that was probably a little easier to talk about.

[5:35] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah.

[5:36] Bobby Steggert: So I'm wondering, first of all, why that was the part that resonated with you the most?

[5:41] Nicholas Barasch: Well, I think doing this show, Pirates, he's been way more present than I thought he would be. You know, I'm 27. I think I've worked through some of, I mean, I'm in therapy, and I've gotten to a place where he's not as loud. I think also in the career place, like, I feel comfortable on stage. I've been doing it my whole life. But for some reason, he was really kicked up for this experience. I think I know the reasons. I mean, one is that I'm working with people who are incredibly kind and know what they're doing. I mean, I work with Alice Warren Carlyle, Rupert Holmes, but they hear me at 13 first. And so my 13-year-old self has been hella triggered about this experience.

[6:27] Bobby Steggert: Have they been treating you like a 13-year-old boy?

[6:30] Nicholas Barasch: Well, I think consciously. And I think that's been at the forefront. And that 13-year-old is not a great actor, not super free, like not self-loving, like none of the things that I'm actively working on. So it's been this real conflict lately. It's like going to a high school reunion, and that part of you comes back.

[6:53] Bobby Steggert: Absolutely. But you're just doing it on Broadway.

[6:55] Nicholas Barasch: Or with your parents, where you're like, oh, my God, I'm falling into these old habits, and you're my dad, and oh, my God.

[7:01] Bobby Steggert: So that's part of why I've been having to really direct my attention to him and be like, oh, we need to have some conversation.

[7:09] Nicholas Barasch: That's amazing.

[7:10] Bobby Steggert: Well, I'm so glad you're willing to do it with me.

[7:12] Nicholas Barasch: Of course.

[7:13] Bobby Steggert: Yeah. We ran into each other a year ago.

[7:15] Nicholas Barasch: Yes.

[7:16] Bobby Steggert: And you said yes, but it's wonderful that the timing is now.

[7:20] Nicholas Barasch: Yes.

[7:21] Bobby Steggert: I agree.

[7:22] Nicholas Barasch: I agree.

[7:23] Bobby Steggert: So the first question I want to ask you about an inner child is if you can picture him in your past, what did he look like? And what's the environment you see him in?

[7:32] Nicholas Barasch: I probably see him in an audition waiting room, because he was working at a very young age.

[7:39] Bobby Steggert: Your first Broadway show was when you were 11?

[7:41] Nicholas Barasch: 10.

[7:42] Bobby Steggert: 10. Yeah, West Side Story. I see him kind of hunched and wide-eyed and very, very ambitious and determined, but just terrified out of his mind and so fragile and just white knuckling it.

[7:58] Bobby Steggert: So you had other parts that were pushing you towards success.

[8:01] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah.

[8:02] Bobby Steggert: But what was the fear under all of it as that little kid in the waiting room imagined the audition ahead of him?

[8:08] Nicholas Barasch: I think definitely my sexuality played a part in just needing that validation. I read The Velvet Rage last year, which was a great resource for me, but it felt like if I can get these people's validation behind a table or whatever, then I can be seen and I can feel worthy, but also I have to hide at the same time.

[8:30] Bobby Steggert: So did little Nicholas know that he wasn't straight?

[8:33] Nicholas Barasch: 100%.

[8:34] Bobby Steggert: How early?

[8:35] Nicholas Barasch: 7, 8.

[8:36] Bobby Steggert: Me too.

[8:38] Nicholas Barasch: So he was always known.

[8:39] Bobby Steggert: What was your knowledge?

[8:40] Nicholas Barasch: I knew I was attracted to boys. I mean, it was ironic because I grew up in a very liberal New York household.

[8:48] Bobby Steggert: You're a true New Yorker?

[8:50] Nicholas Barasch: True New Yorker. We moved to Westchester when I was six. It was almost like the signals I was getting were like, come out the waters fine, what's the problem? But the world and people who I would have encounters with were not telling me that. So it was like mixed signals and I was like, well, it doesn't feel safe, but you're all saying it's safe. So I had a kind of, I think, rarer experience that way.

[9:16] Bobby Steggert: It's also a really valid example of how just because you're in an environment like the Broadway community where it's very normal, it doesn't mean that you will internalize that.

[9:26] Nicholas Barasch: Absolutely. And I had people kind of trying to poke and prod and pull me out of the closet, which did the opposite of pushing me all the way back in. So I think, yes, I think the inner child was really motivated by, yeah, all of the kind of praise and the nods, the respect, quote-unquote, I was getting through performing.

[9:48] Bobby Steggert: You say that young Nicholas wasn't a good actor, but he was obviously gifted in some way.

[9:53] Nicholas Barasch: Totally. I think the talent was always there, but he was just so rigid that there was no, I mean, I worked so hard, so much harder than I had to on every scene and every line and every scene. I mean, I was just, I was obsessed and he got me to where I am now, but he can't, he can't leave anymore. He can't drive the car anymore.

[10:18] Bobby Steggert: Was he passionate about what he was doing?

[10:21] Nicholas Barasch: Yes. I think the love, I was thinking before I came here today, like the love has always been threaded throughout for what I do. I don't think I would still be doing it if I didn't really love it.

[10:34] Bobby Steggert: I'm always curious about people who start young and I did too. Were you driving the train?

[10:38] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, I was driving the train. I mean, my mom likes to tell the story that she walked into the kitchen one day and I was like, did you get me an agent yet? I don't know how or why I was doing community theater. Someone probably dropped the word agent and I got that in my head. But yes, I was always driving the car and my parents were so supportive. And so it was just, I fell into it in a very organic way. It was kind of just go, go, go.

[11:07] Bobby Steggert: What about in terms of Little Nicholas's connection to others, whether it be family or friends?

[11:14] Nicholas Barasch: Didn't have a lot of friends. It was so insular. It was like my parents, my sister, but more my parents and my manager.

[11:25] Bobby Steggert: You had a real close relationship with them?

[11:26] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, and they were kind of the ones doing my schedule every day. It was like school and then an audition. I had friends at school, but I knew that I couldn't really develop close relationships. And I actually wasn't about that. I was like, cool, I'll see you all later.

[11:42] Nicholas Barasch: I think the white knuckling came more with adolescence. So maybe like 10, 11, 12-year-old Nick was more free and just like, whoo, I get to act and sing. I think adolescence and bullies and hormones and all those things made me way more self-conscious. And then the white knuckling became. That's also a really important point because I think we have many inner children. Like I have a four-year-old and a six-year-old and a 10-year-old, 14-year-old. The adolescent version of your inner child, I would imagine, became more self-aware and more afraid. So he became a harder worker. He became filled with more shame and very motivated by success in the business as a way, as you previously said, to avoid some of the other stuff that was brewing. And so now it's like that shift of, oh, okay, I'm not motivated by this terror or this need for validation. Like, what am I motivated by? And were you allowing any even private exploration of sexuality at that point?

[12:59] Nicholas Barasch: Yes, I would. Yes, I was. But it was kind of like two halves of my brain. One was dark and painful and the other was on stage. Like it was kind of like that duality. And then I remember coming out to myself at 20, just not that long ago.

[13:22] Bobby Steggert: What did you think might happen to your career? Because I remember being very afraid to come out, even though all my friends knew, my agents knew. What were you afraid would happen?

[13:31] Nicholas Barasch: I grew up not seeing any gay roles, like maybe one in a blue moon. And thank God things have changed so much. But I just was like, oh, if you're an actor and you're a boy, you're gonna be straight. That was the only blueprint for me. So that's just what it was. The auditions came in and I always felt resentful and still do sometimes because it felt like I had two acting jobs. It felt like I had to play straight. And on top of that, play whatever role I was required to play.

[14:01] Bobby Steggert: It's also interesting in that your earlier roles had little to do with romance. So there's something to hide in totally.

[14:10] Nicholas Barasch: Totally. And character work and accents and costumes. You know, like, I loved escaping as much as possible from myself.

[14:17] Bobby Steggert: Were you afraid? Was your inner child afraid of being rejected personally by anyone?

[14:22] Nicholas Barasch: Absolutely. I didn't really identify with any group of friends. Like even the weird theater kids that I should have identified with, I didn't. For some reason. I was just, I always felt like I was one foot in every room. And so developing community and closer friends has taken a while and I'm just starting to be like, oh, I think I have my people, which is nice.

[14:48] Bobby Steggert: What a relief.

[14:49] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, absolutely.

[14:50] Bobby Steggert: I wonder if you relate to this. When I was working as a younger person, a part of me really needed to feel special because my inner child was so scared. And did that need to feel special take you away from connection with certain peers?

[15:05] Nicholas Barasch: Absolutely. Yeah. What comes to mind is doing Leap of Faith, the out of town tryout in LA. Where I felt like the most special kid on earth. I was singing my heart out, Alan making ballads. I was really in shape. I was like playing tennis every day. So we're at the Oakwood.

[15:23] Bobby Steggert: How old are you?

[15:24] Nicholas Barasch: I was 12.

[15:25] Bobby Steggert: You're really hot and 12?

[15:26] Nicholas Barasch: I was like hot and ripped. I was living my best life.

[15:31] Bobby Steggert: Were they sexualizing a 12-year-old boy?

[15:33] Nicholas Barasch: No, no. But I was like, you know, doing eight shows a week. I just absolutely feeling special.

[15:41] Bobby Steggert: That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. If I felt special, then I was protected from any ridicule and any doubt.

[15:48] Bobby Steggert: What about the opposite? Because oftentimes people think about inner child and they think about fear and vulnerability. But the inner child also has a great deal of play in them.

[16:00] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah.

[16:01] Bobby Steggert: What is your history of your access to play?

[16:04] Nicholas Barasch: I think my access to play has come in adulthood. I really don't think I had access to play as a kid. I definitely did pre-professional actor. I was the kid coming up with characters and fantasies on the trampoline and at recess. But I think during the business, the play went away.

[16:28] Bobby Steggert: So part of the business killed your inner child.

[16:30] Nicholas Barasch: Yes. Yes. And he was working overtime. And my therapist, she calls him a heroic, like very militant.

[16:37] Bobby Steggert: Oh, I love that.

[16:39] Nicholas Barasch: Because he was able to even through the rigidity, he was able to do some good work. People were hiring him. But no, the play came later. It's like still coming. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's play. Even now in this Broadway show, I'm like, oh, yeah.

[16:54] Bobby Steggert: Well, how are you finding it now?

[16:56] Nicholas Barasch: Well, it's still taking time. And I will say, in early previews, that inner child was trying to take the wheel and he did for a couple of performances.

[17:07] Bobby Steggert: Which version of your inner child?

[17:09] Nicholas Barasch: The terrified one who is rigid and tight and is just trying to please others. He took the wheel and there were a couple of performances in there that were not great. And I think

[17:18] Bobby Steggert: What was happening for you internally?

[17:20] Nicholas Barasch: The overthinking started to happen. And in the middle of scenes and songs, and it was almost like a panic would set in and I was unable to kind of stop it. And what I'm working on now with my therapist is we can see and love this inner child, but we also have to kind of be firm with him. He does need to be like, hey, we're going to be quiet for the next couple hours. And I love you, but I got to leave this show. You cannot.

[17:48] Bobby Steggert: They call that reparenting.

[17:49] Nicholas Barasch: Yes, totally. I'm very much in a reparenting phase. And now I'm able to find which I think is the biggest lesson of this experience is ways to soothe him in an instant.

[18:02] Bobby Steggert: What do you do or say?

[18:03] Nicholas Barasch: I say, what do I say right now? I actually try to put my hand on my chest or my shoulder and I-

[18:09] Bobby Steggert: Is that where he lives?

[18:10] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, like my little heart. And I say, I got you. Don't worry. Don't worry. I got you. And major shout out to, I mean, I rarely meet the stage in this play. So that's also part of the challenge of like, how do you stay present? But a couple days ago, I was just in my head and I have a couple minutes to sip water before dashing back on stage. And one of our stage managers, Rachel, and my delightful hair person, Charlotte, I got a hug from Rachel and I'm explaining to them, I'm like, I'm in my head, I need help. And Charlotte gave me a hug and just said, just do it for you. And just those little nuggets of like being pushed back out there by these people who are so loving. So I'm grateful for that.

[18:55] Bobby Steggert: When you get positive feedback, like you got a Drama Desk nomination, which is so cool. Does that help your inner child to feel braver? Does it make him more scared?

[19:05] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, it's so interesting, because I remember Rewind nine years ago to when you gave me my Theatre World Award. I also got a Drama Desk nomination. So it's like a weird full circle moment.

[19:17] Bobby Steggert: That was so cool for me to present that to you. So special.

[19:20] Nicholas Barasch: But it creeps me out then way more. This time, I think I'm able to recognize that the external validation is actually not gonna really serve me in any way. I think it's a nice like, I was telling my parents the other day, it's good that people are like, oh, we want you. You belong. You do what you're doing, you're doing some good work. If I can take it as that, instead of like, oh my god, I have this weird expectation of me. That's better. But I'm learning that it all comes from inside. It's all internal. And from there, if I'm in a place of confidence, and courage, and adult, then I can do some good work and then hopefully get the feedback I want.

[20:11] Bobby Steggert: We'll be right back. How does your inner child feel about this being sort of your adult debut?

[20:20] Nicholas Barasch: Weary. Weary. But he's, you know, I love tiny metal. But it's very helpful. But he's slowly getting behind it. I can see when I have conversations with him. Him kind of being hesitant, but saying, okay, I think you know what you're doing. A friend sent me the other day, a page wasn't really mean, but it was just the words, your inner child is rooting for you like, 20 times in a row. And I think that's interesting to me. I never thought of it that way. But I'm like, I guess he is. Because we need to grow and evolve.

[20:57] Bobby Steggert: Well, he's probably watching you slowly let go.

[21:01] Nicholas Barasch: Yes, yes. Yeah. And so I find, I wish I didn't have to do it in front of 700 people a night, like on Broadway stage. But I do find myself loosening and letting go more. And then I just have more fun. I'm like, oh, actually, this is play.

[21:18] Bobby Steggert: Speaking of the play, this is a nuance question. And it involves a paradox.

[21:23] Nicholas Barasch: Aha.

[21:25] Bobby Steggert: It does. So your inner child knew he was gay. Yeah. And he was terrified of that. But I think in terms of this idea of play, we have to be connected to our full selves in order to play.

[21:37] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah.

[21:38] Bobby Steggert: So you're playing a straight person who's in love with a woman in the show. Are you allowing any of the right kind of queerness to affect your work now?

[21:47] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah. I mean, only very few people could ask that question really know they're talking about. Yes, the answer is yes. I think people like Jonathan Groff had really inspired me because I remember seeing him in Merrily and being like, his confidence and kind of just presence trumps all the other crap about, oh, what's their sexuality or gender? He just is who he is. So yes, I think there are moments now when I'm allowing myself to be myself as Frederick. And I think it goes hand in hand with the loosening.

[22:28] Nicholas Barasch: And also, I'm looking forward to playing queer roles.

[22:31] Bobby Steggert: Yes.

[22:31] Nicholas Barasch: I think that's on the agenda.

[22:34] Bobby Steggert: It's very freeing to get to kiss a boy on stage.

[22:38] Nicholas Barasch: Oh my goodness. Yeah.

[22:40] Bobby Steggert: That's exciting. I hope that for you.

[22:42] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, my version of that was that if I were playing a straight role, which I did a lot, I fell in love with a lot of girls on stage, but I would let that part of me that adores out and it's a little queer, but letting that fullness inform a straight character was very successful.

[22:58] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, absolutely. That's another lesson I'm learning. This is such school for me.

[23:04] Bobby Steggert: How are you seeing it inform your performance?

[23:07] Nicholas Barasch: I think there's more relaxation. There's more joy. I mean, there's a moment where Frederick is essentially proposing to all of these women, like, please, please be my girlfriend. I love you so hard. I love you so much.

[24:25] Bobby Steggert: Have you been thinking about whether or not to talk about your sexuality in terms of being an actor for a while?

[24:55] Nicholas Barasch: I think luckily in the business too. Everyone's queer now. It's very cool. Everyone's queer. It's very cool.

[25:04] Bobby Steggert: When I ran into you a year ago, obviously, you didn't know you were going to do Pirates and you said, I think I'm gonna write. Yeah. What is that in your life?

[25:12] Nicholas Barasch: Family full of writers. My grandfather was a TV writer and actually a playwright as well. And my dad spent many years as a journalist. My sister's a novelist. My mom's a songwriter. So I think it was inevitable I would try it at some point. And I'm loving that. And I think having another creative outlet that's not all about acting is really healthy. And I've written like a little short play. I write little scenes. I was in a little writer's group in the fall just with some friends and we got together once a month and read our work. And I think it's really fun. I think it's also great to have the page as a buffer. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so much less vulnerable. I'm sure writers would fight me on that.

[25:58] Bobby Steggert: Different kind of vulnerability.

[25:59] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, different kind.

[26:00] Bobby Steggert: Oh man, I imagine having to trust other people to interpret your work is really hard.

[26:05] Nicholas Barasch: Oh yeah, for sure. Painful.

[26:07] Bobby Steggert: So I'm thinking about all the iterations of My Inner Children and My Inner Child so wanted to be seen. And then also when I started to act and then had a whole career in front of people, often My Inner Child was telling me it needed privacy. Like it was sick of being on display.

[26:24] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah.

[26:25] Bobby Steggert: And does that ever occur to you? Do you ever have the desire not to be an actor?

[26:30] Nicholas Barasch: Absolutely. I literally was in a scene the other night where I don't say much, but there's a lot going on and we have to stay very focused on the action that's happening. And I find myself turning upstage. I'm hiding. I literally still am hiding. I turn upstage and I was like, Nick, you should let the audience see your face. I mean, you're in the scene. So there is always that push and pull of hiding and wanting to be seen and wanting to hide. But I'm feeling very open right now in terms of career. And if I'm lucky enough to keep getting acting gigs and doing that, great. I don't want anything to be set in stone. And if I decide to take a break or write or whatever, I'm open to that.

[27:11] Bobby Steggert: What does your inner child want for you in the future? You're telling it you have this, but if you were to ask him what he wants for you?

[27:18] Nicholas Barasch: To just have fun. I think to just enjoy. He didn't get to, I was talking to my therapist the other day about it, he did not get to enjoy himself. And it was all self-imposed. And I think the stakes were always so high. So I had a rationale for it. Because it was Broadway, I had to muscle up and do really great work. And so that was an excuse to be mean to myself. And so now I think he just wants me to relax and stop caring as much about what others think. In our show right now, I can see everyone. It's so light, and the theater is so small, and we also break the fourth wall a lot. And I find myself, I'm not doing it as much anymore, but I would spot literally everyone, every theatergoer, every industry person, and now I'm kind of trying to blur them out and just sing out Louise to the back of the house. Because it's not that healthy.

[28:18] Bobby Steggert: What's your relationship to singing? I had to work very hard for my voice.

[28:22] Nicholas Barasch: Really?

[28:23] Bobby Steggert: Yeah. And so it always felt like sort of a nuisance. I'm thrilled I'm not singing anymore. But what is your relationship to singing?

[28:30] Nicholas Barasch: I love singing. I think that's what got me into a lot of rooms was my voice.

[28:35] Bobby Steggert: And your red hair, and your cuteness.

[28:38] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, it's funny. I was always excited to get to the scene in the room, but I knew that my voice would capture their attention. And then I would do the really juicy stuff. No, I love singing. I have an amazing voice teacher, Neil, and I think being in a show eight times a week, I have to remember to sing a couple other ditties throughout the day to remember why I love music and singing. Because it can get, you know, it can be a nuisance. And I'm waking up, I test the top of my range and the bottom of my range. So I go,

[29:13] Bobby Steggert: Every morning.

[29:14] Nicholas Barasch: That's a shortcut.

[29:15] Bobby Steggert: It's a shortcut. And if I don't have a falsetto, then we panic. Then we call people and then we text my voice teacher. But you know, it's a lot of discipline involved. And that way, I'm grateful for my inner child to really learn discipline. So it's second nature to me. I don't have to work hard at being disciplined.

[29:30] Bobby Steggert: I'm curious about your therapy. Is it IFS therapy?

[29:34] Nicholas Barasch: I don't know if she like classifies herself as that. But yeah.

[29:38] Bobby Steggert: You're just using the language so fluently.

[29:41] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, that is a lot of what we do. She had me write a note card this week of, I guess more like exposure therapy of like, why do you contort and constrict yourself into this perfect, your idea of perfection on stage? And the answer was that if I don't, there won't be a place for me.

[30:01] Bobby Steggert: Well, that's your inner child's fear.

[30:04] Nicholas Barasch: Yes. Yeah. So I'm reading that note card. You know, we're in it. We're in it right now.

[30:11] Bobby Steggert: What's so beautiful about what you understand, and you understand it earlier than I did, is that these parts can hurt us in their extremities. And you can also really help them to evolve to aid you.

[30:24] Nicholas Barasch: Yes. Yes. There's a healing, a larger healing.

[30:30] Bobby Steggert: And the fact that you appreciate how rigid he was, at times, and in certain circumstances, it's really beautiful.

[30:37] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, thank you. I mean, I had to, I was responsible for turning the stairwell on the Tonys with Gavin Creel and Jane Krakowski were standing on this piece of furniture that I had to make sure they didn't fall. I was like, go off 18 year old Nick for making that happen.

[30:56] Bobby Steggert: That sounds like a lot of pressure.

[30:58] Nicholas Barasch: A lot of pressure? Like now, I would like, I would try to get out of it now. Like I would actively try to get out of it.

[31:04] Bobby Steggert: That's not in my contract.

[31:05] Nicholas Barasch: Not in my contract.

[31:06] Bobby Steggert: You can start saying that. I guess I want to end with the future. What do you want for yourself?

[31:11] Nicholas Barasch: I want to continue to put the little guy in the passenger seat and just grow and expand as an actor and an artist and really not lead with fear. Fear can be there and will always be there, but I don't want that to be the thing that's at the forefront that's preventing me from being bolder and more free. Because that's hellish. And a lot of even this rehearsal process was me just being tied up in knots with that. And I'm like, okay, rehearsals can be laborious. And like, sure, we're not going to find it till later. But it's such a hindrance when the fear is the number one thing. So I want it to be lower on the list. Two, three, four.

[31:58] Bobby Steggert: Out of curiosity, do you think that you were hiding the fear or was it recognized by people?

[32:04] Nicholas Barasch: Definitely recognized by people. I was lucky enough to be surrounded by people who really know how to be kind, tread lightly.

[32:17] Bobby Steggert: With cat-like tread.

[32:18] Nicholas Barasch: With cat-like tread. I mean, shout out to Jenks Monsoon. This really helped me be kinder to myself in moments. And she's just incredible. And I'm not the youngest person in the room anymore. Whoa. Like there are a lot of older people who feel comfortable being like, hey, I'm older than you. And I know a thing or two. And I'd like to share that with you.

[32:42] Bobby Steggert: And what about that relationship to fear in your life outside of being an actor?

[32:48] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, it's interesting. My therapist, Andrea, talks about how, I mean, I fear sometimes ordering a matcha at the coffee shop. The kid has taken over there too. And I muddle my words and then I'm self-conscious. And so I think that'll be once the show ends or once, you know, normal quote-unquote life resumes again, that'll be, I think, the next challenge. Like, okay, how can I take what I've learned in this very heightened experience and take it to the coffee shop and walk into the coffee shop with the same confidence that I would on stage?

[33:22] Bobby Steggert: What an interesting reversal. Is there something about the everyday that in some ways is more complicated for you?

[33:30] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah, I think so.

[33:32] Nicholas Barasch: I think being on stage, being in the show in particular, has forced me to figure it out in a way that I don't have to, getting a coffee at Solo Steaks.

[33:40] Bobby Steggert: Oh, let's do that RuPaul thing. This just came to me. They do that inner child exercise at the end of one of the final episodes. Do you watch Drag Race?

[33:47] Nicholas Barasch: I'm pretty bad when it comes to that.

[33:49] Bobby Steggert: Wow.

[33:50] Nicholas Barasch: I know. I know. I know.

[33:51] Bobby Steggert: It's okay. You're forgiven. But he shows them a picture of them at four or five. And he asks them to address that four year old.

[34:02] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah.

[34:03] Bobby Steggert: What would you say to your inner child if you got to talk to him?

[34:06] Nicholas Barasch: Okay. I think I would say hang in there. There's a knowing that you'll always have underneath it all. Lean on it. Trust it. And when it goes away, know that it'll come back.

[34:31] Bobby Steggert: Oh, I love that. What I love so much about that is that you respect its knowledge, even if its knowledge has been painful.

[34:39] Nicholas Barasch: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to be processing that. I'm going to go home and think about that. Yeah.

[35:01] Nicholas Barasch: I'm going to go home and think about that.