This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Helen J. Shen: To me, the diligence and the hard work is kindness because I feel like other people are relying on me and there's so many people. It takes a huge village to make any theater thing happen, let alone this Broadway thing. And there's so many people working their butts off to platform me to get to sing a really beautiful song or to tell a really beautiful story. So I feel that as well. And on the other hand, I can't always understand and completely empathize with experiences that I don't have.

[0:45] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[1:14] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, friends. Happy February. It's Random Acts of Kindness Month, and we have a lovely episode to inspire you to choose kind acts, random or intentional, featuring my new friend Helen J. Shen. Helen J. Shen is an actor, musician, and writer who has quickly established herself as a force within the entertainment industry. Helen rose to critical acclaim starring in the Broadway musical Maybe Happy Ending, which won the 2025 Tony Award for Best Musical. I love this show so much. Her performance was recognized not just by me, but by incredible institutions like the Drama Desk Awards and the Grammys. She has also been recognized in Time 100 Next, Variety's 2024 Power of Young Hollywood Impact Report, and the 2025 Gold House A100 list.

She recently wrapped filming a highly anticipated sequel you may have heard of, The Devil Wears Prada 2, okay, which is her first movie. I mean, how impressive is that? Set to be released this upcoming May. Gird your loins. From her New Jersey origin story, I'm trying not to fist pump right now, to how she's feeling about closing the chapter on Maybe Happy Ending. Surely a happy ending awaits. To what it's like to be in The Devil Wears Prada 2 alongside Meryl Streep and Anne Hathaway. Another set of Jersey girls. Helen is incredibly thoughtful with her responses. Some might call her a true helper bot. She provides such great advice for artists and I encourage you to share this with a friend who might be inspired by it.

I also hope you'll Maybe Happy share our social media pages. We are on Instagram at Art of Kindness Pod and at Rob Peterpaul, sharing positively unhinged content, both from our episodes and also some content that, you know, might surprise you. You can watch full video episodes on Spotify as well as on our YouTube channel, so check that out if you have the time, friend. Now, without further ado, please enjoy the heartfelt Helen J. Shen. The J stands for joy.

[3:40] Robert Peterpaul: Helen, hello. How are you?

[3:42] Helen J. Shen: I'm good. Thank you for having me.

[3:44] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you for being here and congrats on literally all the things.

[3:48] Helen J. Shen: Thank you. Thank you so much.

[3:49] Robert Peterpaul: I am so pumped to chat with you today, not only as an admirer of your work, of course, but also how thoughtfully you just seem to approach your career and now being a role model. And we have a bunch of mutual friends and I just hear like the loveliest things about you. So I'm super pumped.

[4:06] Helen J. Shen: Thank you so much. I'm so excited.

[4:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yay. OK, first of all, wait, rewind, roll the tape. You're from Basking Ridge, New Jersey?

[4:14] Helen J. Shen: Yes, I am.

[4:15] Robert Peterpaul: I'm from Chatham.

[4:17] Helen J. Shen: No way.

[4:19] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. And my whole family is in Basking Ridge right now. They have my cousins have always lived there. My dad lives there now, so I'm always there.

[4:25] Helen J. Shen: What a small world. That's crazy.

[4:29] Robert Peterpaul: You might have gone to high school with one of my cousins or my brother, actually, which is wild. I feel like every time I say I'm from Jersey, someone says, where? And then I say Basking Ridge and nobody has any clue what I'm talking about.

[4:41] Helen J. Shen: Oh, my gosh. No, I know it very well. I know like the cookie cutter fences and the richness and the sort of like beautiful horses, the horses, of course, is which is awesome. Sorry, I'm already cracked out. And I do I don't know if you felt this way, but I mean, growing up in New Jersey, you're pretty close to New York City. So that must be so nice as a budding theater kid.

[5:03] Helen J. Shen: Oh, my God, it was amazing. And also, I don't think I came into the city nearly as often as it was available to us because it was close, but it was still an ordeal. Taking the NJ Transit is still kind of a hike.

[5:16] Robert Peterpaul: And it's double decker now, so it's double the hike, which is wild.

[5:21] Helen J. Shen: Sometimes if you're lucky.

[5:24] Robert Peterpaul: Sometimes.

[5:28] Helen J. Shen: True. Sometimes it's the old rickety ones and then, you know, it's a real journey.

[5:33] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. But what's not is I think you also studied at Paper Mill, which I did.

[5:37] Helen J. Shen: I did.

[5:38] Robert Peterpaul: So like a lot of crossroads here. Did you enjoy that?

[5:40] Helen J. Shen: I loved Paper Mill. I loved it. That was like I was a very shy kid growing up and Paper Mill. And I don't know if you ever bumped paths with Mickey McNanny.

[5:54] Helen J. Shen: No, she was a theater educator at the time that I was doing it. And she like really pulled me out of my shell. And it was amazing.

[6:02] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. Well, I think you're amazing. And before I just compliment you this whole time, Helen, I always like to start out asking, how are you at receiving compliments and love? Because you've got a lot of it in the past year and a half, two years, especially.

[6:19] Helen J. Shen: I think I'm working on it in terms of receiving kindness from other people. I have been, especially this past year, trying to reframe some of my discomfort with receiving kindness, with letting my younger self receive them, who really needs it, or like my Paper Mill days, or my college days, or the days of like the naysayers stuff. It's nice to affirm the part of myself that didn't believe in myself to begin with, I guess. And there's obviously days of imposter syndrome and that kind of stuff. But yeah, I think I try to these days, when somebody at the stage door or somebody comments something nice on my Instagram, I let my inner child receive that.

[7:18] Robert Peterpaul: That's beautiful. Does that help you with the imposter syndrome-y moments too? Just letting the child-like joy come out? Because when we're kids and we're doing this, it's like, we're not thinking of the business end of things, we're just kind of playing and having fun.

[7:30] Helen J. Shen: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this whole year has been a huge exercise in allowing the feeling of imposter syndrome to happen and just noticing it as like a leaf on the water and like letting it pass.

[7:51] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, leaf on the water.

[7:52] Helen J. Shen: Yes, analogy. Come on, analogy.

[7:54] Robert Peterpaul: That was beautiful. A leaf on the water. And like, brilliant. It takes people a very long time to learn just sort of, when you fight these things, they get worse and they grow. But if you just kind of acknowledge it and let it pass you by, it takes the power out of it a little bit.

[8:07] Helen J. Shen: It's like a crumpled leaf versus a flourishing leaf, you know? Goes down the waterfall and we're like, bye, bye, Felifa.

[8:13] Robert Peterpaul: Bye, Felifa.

[8:14] Helen J. Shen: Was that? Okay, sorry. Okay, I need to calm down. It's a Monday, a holiday morning. But I really, I love that a lot. And it makes me wonder, you know, from growing up in New Jersey until now, what do you think is your definition of kindness, Helen? And how do you think it's kind of evolved over the years from being a rainbow fish to a robot?

[8:38] Helen J. Shen: Yes, I, wow, what a question. I think I, growing up in the Northeast, there is certainly a difference between nice and kind. To me, I think initially, I didn't know what the difference was. And so there was a lot of like, minimizing myself for the sake of others, or, or getting out of the way for the sake of other people in that way. And then to turn around and say, me stepping into my power, and allowing that power to like, bring other people who are maybe a quieter presence in the room to speak and using that space within myself to kind of give it to other people. To me, that's more kind, or like honesty is kind. And diligence is kind. There's things that can be kind to your body kind of to others that necessarily that don't necessarily on the surface, make people comfortable.

Or like, it's interesting to want to like, get into like, what, what am I trying to uphold here? The status quo? Like, what kind of energy am I trying to partake in? And I think there's always, for me, like, I'm learning how to express my kindness in the most generous way possible. But I think yeah, like, it doesn't always behoove the whole room.

[10:20] Robert Peterpaul: Good word, behoove.

[10:21] Helen J. Shen: Behoove.

[10:22] Robert Peterpaul: I do think of the Grinch when people say behoove though.

[10:24] Helen J. Shen: Behoove.

[10:26] Robert Peterpaul: Behoove.

[10:27] Helen J. Shen: You have to say it like that.

[10:28] Robert Peterpaul: Agreed. Yes.

[10:31] Helen J. Shen: It doesn't always benefit the room to be just nice, I think. Like just, yeah, upholding that kind of thing. So I think that's what I've been trying to find within myself. And figuring out what that difference is, and what kindness actually means is like seeing a person for who they are, and allowing them to flourish.

[10:55] Robert Peterpaul: Mmm.

[10:56] Helen J. Shen: Yeah.

[10:57] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. I think there's oddly a lot of parallels too, between that and your first role, which was the Rainbow Fish. Everybody, that's why I said it.

[11:03] Helen J. Shen: Yes.

[11:04] Robert Peterpaul: Giving out your skills, letting everybody else flourish and being generous, but also balancing your needs. And it's really interesting, Helen, no one's ever said diligence is kindness. And every person I've interviewed has had a different definition. And so I imagine as the lead of a show, and as you go on to be a leading human in other shows, that's tough, because you want to uphold your definition of kindness, but also everybody in that room experiences kindness differently. And so if you're being quiet to yourself, as a self-kindness, someone might take that a different way.

[11:34] Helen J. Shen: Totally.

[11:34] Robert Peterpaul: Which is tricky, right?

[11:36] Helen J. Shen: Totally, totally. And that has been such a journey for me too, is to me, the diligence and the hard work is kindness, because I feel like other people are relying on me. And there's so many people, it takes a huge village to make any theater thing happen, let alone this Broadway thing. And there's so many people working their butts off to platform me to get to sing a really beautiful song, or to tell a really beautiful story. So I feel that as well. And on the other hand, I can't always understand and completely empathize with experiences that I don't have, like other people in the building who are experiencing early parenthood for the first time. And I think there were times at which that I would get uncomfortable, because I just didn't understand that way.

I couldn't in my body understand what that was like. And so I could say, Oh, I empathize with you. And I can imagine what that's like, but I actually don't know. And my standard for myself as a young person, fresh out of whatever, and being in this particular chapter, there were times that I would project that expectation that I had for myself onto other people. And I realized that that wasn't fair. And so that's been a huge learning curve for me, is to meet people where they're at.

[13:30] Helen J. Shen: Leaving Maybe Happy Ending has been quite a journey for me. It’s a show that has really shaped my career and my artistry.

[13:56] Helen J. Shen: The experience of being part of such a groundbreaking production has been incredible.

[14:22] Helen J. Shen: I’ve learned so much about myself and my craft through this process.

[14:43] Helen J. Shen: It’s bittersweet to leave, but I’m excited for what’s next.

[15:09] Helen J. Shen: Speaking of what’s next, I just wrapped filming for The Devil Wears Prada 2, which was such a dream come true.

[15:38] Helen J. Shen: Working on that project was an amazing experience, especially being part of such an iconic franchise.

[16:08] Helen J. Shen: I can’t wait for everyone to see it when it comes out!

[16:28] Helen J. Shen: There’s something really special about being involved in a story that resonates with so many people.

[16:54] Helen J. Shen: And then there’s the whole Broadway ghost phenomenon, which is fascinating.

[17:21] Helen J. Shen: I’ve had some interesting encounters in the theater world that I’d love to share.

[17:51] Helen J. Shen: It’s amazing how many stories there are about ghosts in Broadway theaters.

[18:21] Helen J. Shen: I think it adds to the magic of the theater, don’t you?

[18:41] Helen J. Shen: There’s a certain energy in those spaces that feels alive, almost like the spirits of past performers are still there.

[19:11] Helen J. Shen: I’ve heard tales from fellow actors about their own ghostly experiences.

[19:26] Helen J. Shen: It’s a topic that really sparks curiosity and conversation among us in the industry.

[19:52] Helen J. Shen: I think it’s important to honor the history of the theaters we perform in.

[20:22] Helen J. Shen: Each show carries the weight of those who came before us, and that’s something special.

[20:42] Helen J. Shen: I love the idea that we’re all part of a larger narrative in the world of theater.

[21:02] Helen J. Shen: It’s a beautiful community, and I feel grateful to be a part of it.

[21:22] Helen J. Shen: The connections we make with each other and the stories we tell are what make this art form so powerful.

[21:52] Helen J. Shen: I truly believe that kindness and support are essential in this industry.

[22:12] Helen J. Shen: We all have our struggles, and lifting each other up can make a huge difference.

[22:32] Helen J. Shen: I’ve experienced that firsthand, and it’s something I try to carry with me in my work.

[22:58] Helen J. Shen: It’s about creating a positive environment where everyone can thrive.

[23:13] Helen J. Shen: I think that’s what makes a successful production—when everyone feels valued and supported.

[23:33] Helen J. Shen: I’m excited to see how my journey continues to unfold in this industry.

[23:53] Helen J. Shen: There’s so much more to explore and create, and I’m ready for it all.

[24:21] Helen J. Shen: Thank you for having me on the show to share my experiences and thoughts!

[24:41] Helen J. Shen: It’s been a pleasure to chat about my journey and the importance of kindness in our work.

[25:01] Helen J. Shen: I hope it inspires others to embrace their own paths with positivity and authenticity.

[25:21] Helen J. Shen: Let’s keep spreading kindness and supporting one another in this beautiful community.

[25:41] Helen J. Shen: I’m looking forward to what’s next for all of us!

[26:01] Helen J. Shen: Thank you again for this wonderful conversation.

[26:21] Helen J. Shen: I can’t wait to see where our journeys take us!

[26:41] Helen J. Shen: Here’s to more kindness and creativity in the world of theater!

[27:01] Helen J. Shen: I know that feels cliché or like, you know, whatever, there's always going to be some feelings of like, insecurity or jealousy, I think that will come up. And it's good to acknowledge those, and feelings of competition. At the same time, like, I have now, I think it then comes down to like, being fans of your community, and going to see the shows that your friends are in, going to see your friends' work, suddenly, you're sitting next to them, it doesn't feel like, so life or death, it doesn't feel so like, I have to get this. Otherwise, I'm not good. Well, I know this person I'm sitting next to is amazing. So the fact that I'm sitting next to this person is wonderful. Yeah, how wonderful is it that I get to feel like this person that I look up to, and have looked up to for a long time is now my peer.

That's wonderful. Like, I would say my final callback for Claire, I was thinking about a lot of things. But mostly thinking about how much I loved the material, and how much I felt like I could bring to the material. It's interesting, I think, for listeners out there. Like, especially when we love something, we're always trying to like, listen to some singer that we love and try to emulate that sound, or we're trying to do, we see what we love, and we want to do it because we love it so much. Yeah. And I think what I have found with originating this huge role is at every turn, when I had the opportunity to like, make some kind of creative decision that the creative team allowed me to do, I was thinking about my authenticity and what my North Star would be like, if, if in a vacuum, I could think of just what I want to do, let me now collaborate with our music supervisor, let me collaborate with our director and our writer and ask, like, what's the idea here?

What are you trying to accomplish here? What do I think that my toolbox, my specific toolbox can give you to make that come across? And so then you become an asset in the room, you become like another idea forming. Yeah. And that was really exciting to do. Obviously, that is also a testament to the room that Michael led and Will and Hugh and the writers and Darren too, and everybody all wanting the best idea to win, as opposed to, I'm, insert job title here, and I need to have the idea, whatever. There are rooms like that. And then, you know, you read the room and you journal about it.

[29:44] Helen J. Shen: Literally, yeah, you get it out in a different way. And you find your people in the cast and in the back of the theater, you're like, are we okay? But I think that's so beautiful. And, you know, I had the extreme pleasure of seeing one of your first, one of your, my jersey just came out, one of your first previews. But before that, I got to pop into a tech rehearsal. And it was insane to witness. You and Darren were sort of like, influencers, which is not me. But you might, you might remember that moment.

[30:12] Helen J. Shen: I do remember, we were, we were doing the fairy scene. And we were like, looking up there and see how easy it would be to see some phones in the audience.

[30:22] Helen J. Shen: Oh, yes. I remember you saying that. I'm glad we could help in some way. But, you know, first of all, Michael Arden, okay, you touched on this a little bit, but talk to me about the kindness of this beacon as a leader.

[30:34] Helen J. Shen: He's wonderful. He's really wonderful. I really respected him and admired him for so long before this process. So actually, it was intimidating at first. I was like, Oh, God, I want the right quote. He's the blueprint. And at Paper Mill, first of all, that I saw a bunch of times. Yeah, so, but he would start every day with a little circle up. And even, I think, as a leader, if you set up that space, you also delegate to other people, you give them the permission to also make that space when you're not around. So he set the tone. Once opening happens, once opening happens, the director leaves. The director has other things to do, and comes back sometimes to note it. But because he set that space up, in terms of the cast, and the stage managers, and everyone who was in the rehearsal room, we all already felt like we could take a breath and put down whatever was outside, which, obviously, in the past couple of years, past decade, lots of things outside rehearsal rooms have been influencing rehearsal rooms.

And I think like, and everyone is dealing with all of those things in a different way, and not knowing how to deal with them and, and trying to rediscover our humanity with each other. And be in space with each other. I'm not even talking about like, politics in the world, I'm talking about like, technology and, and, and isolation, and which is all things. So I think, to have the opportunity to like, put it down for an hour, put it down for two hours, is, first of all, luxury, and also like, a necessary part to keep fighting the good fight, and to keep being world citizens and all that stuff. So he really set that tone. And then when we got into tech, which I'm sure you saw, the way that he led and trusted his team of designers, and then the assistants under the design of like, everyone on the tech team who was working tirelessly during tech and previews.

It was amazing. He like, led people into battle, he, he led people with such like, belief in them, so that they could do their best work. And so all I wanted to do was live up to that and, and, and not be the weakest in the chain, which we all knew, like, we had to, like, hold each other because it was, previews is, I don't know, for, I can't quite put into words how difficult previews are for people who, who have never done it before. I hadn't, you know, in college, and you don't go through that process of changing things and thinking about and responding to an audience. And then having to like, in real time respond to all the notes that you're getting from all these other people, you're getting notes from the audience, you're getting notes from your producers.

I think like, Oh, God, previews is just with maybe happy ending, we didn't change all the book all that much. Okay, we changed a bunch of some like little things, other things. Yeah. But yeah, my teeth, the teeth previews process was really an eye opening one. And at least Ellen Lewis was a person that I really looked up to during that time, because she was our leading lady. And she like, she let everybody know when she was full, in terms of getting the changes that you wanted out. So like, she would be like, I got guys, this is the last change, because I, if you want the changes up till now to be put in, I can't take any more on. Oh, you can actually acknowledge that within yourself. Because you want the piece to be better. You want the changes to be implemented with the care that they deserve.

[35:06] Helen J. Shen: Yeah. Hello. Hey, how's it going? Fix it? Yes. Okay, bye. Are you? Can you hear? Oh, bye. Can you? Oh, yeah, I can't hear myself. Wow. He's good. What do you like him to be my producer? That's amazing. Hey, it's so available. Okay, there's okay, so much to download there. And I think it's interesting, especially in a show. Certainly your show is about humanity. But it's literally about helper bots. Yeah. And so I'm sure there's something to you were like, No, I'm going to be a team player, I'm going to keep helping. But as a performer alone, some of the notes that you have to download into your brain, that's pages and pages. And then on top of that, you also have to remember the tech they're changing, because that informs where you're standing.

I know with etc. And I know with maybe happy ending, it boasted so much new technology, like I think a Chiron scrim and I don't even know all the weird names, like something with like a fruit or a pineapple. I don't know. Of course. Is there something like that? I make that up. hollow gauze.

[36:11] Helen J. Shen: A hollow gauze. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. Not a pineapple. Of course. Pepper scrim. Pepper scrim. That's what I was thinking of. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And it's interesting with Michael that checks out that was like the exact question. I asked him at the Tony's where I stole this sign. And he said what you said, which is that he delegates to everybody. So his answer checks out. But of course, all of this comes with frustrating moments. And I just wonder if there's anything from this process specifically you learned about how to handle those very kind of tense, frustrating moments that are maybe just caused by tech. When I was at the tech rehearsal, I think you guys did maybe one move over the course of like, two hours or something. What have you learned about that? And you two were so patient, by the way. Like so beautiful and just standing there and professional. But what's something you learned there?

[37:08] Helen J. Shen: With this process, in particular, I look back and we every minute of tech every minute of any process of doing that and standing there and being annoyed at it or like, wondering if my feet hurt or something like it was every minute was a was a dream and a gift because we had pushed back for a month. We had rumors swirling that it wasn't gonna happen. I watched Michael be stressed that it wasn't gonna happen. Like, I know he like posted a story on like, I think, early previews that was like, please, theater gods, smile down on us. I was like, Wow, if he's posting this, that means we're in real trouble. Like there was writing on the wall in a way that I felt like, in order to do my best work, and to not get bogged down by hopelessness, I had to just kind of be present for each moment.

So I'm really actually, the way that it has played out, obviously, I'm obvious. I feel very grateful for it. If it had not worked out the way that it did, I still think I would have been really grateful that I squeezed every moment out of the beginning. We all felt very aware that this was kind of impossible. Yeah. And I think that that like, gave us camaraderie and togetherness. And so we were working towards a common goal. Yeah, I think also for if I'm trying to think of some, like tips and tricks for previews, I would say like, don't let anything go into your long term memory yet. Or I don't know if there's any way to like, force your brain to do that. But I tried to keep my brain sticky.

So I wouldn't, I'd be like, Okay, well, this version I'm doing is just this version is the next minute to minute version. And then once you're frozen, then you can put it into your long term memory and like, sit with what the dramaturgy means of it and sit with like, do go back to your homework a little bit and, and all that stuff. But because you're changing a lyric, or a word, it has to be in your short term memory in the beginning.

[39:46] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, that's such smart advice, especially because sometimes I mean, it can be as like granular as it is, you know, it can be like, very specific. And I feel like I kind of saw you learn something in real time when we were creepily watching your tech rehearsal, which was from Darren Criss. And I think you were having this long moment. And he kind of looked at you and everybody was like, do we need to be here? And like, you guys kind of were able to walk off and take a break. And I mean, that that might have been one thing might have not been but he's led so many Broadway shows obviously been a part of so many big television and film productions. What I guess is one of the things you took away from him during this process that you think you'll take with you as you go on to lead other shows?

[40:32] Helen J. Shen: First part with such confidence and he's everyone's first cheerleader and biggest champion. So he was always gassing Michael up and gassing all the designers up and thanking the front of house staff and being very like, your work matters. And I think that especially for somebody who has that kind of platform, who has name recognition, that is a responsibility to see. And so I wanted to be the kind of co-lead that could match up to his stature. I think I learned a lot about like, your voice has weight. I think there have been all these other moments where I think a lot of the time actors actually in the grand scheme of the totem pole and stuff are pretty low in terms of like creative decisions and influencing like, what, I don't know what the wrap of the building looks like.

Like, there's a lot of other people have jobs that you might think that the actors have say in and they actually don't. And so I actually walk by every day and they're like, I hate the way I look in that. Right? Like they actually never showed it to me. But that's not even my hand. Right? Exactly. Exactly. And that's the norm. And so it doesn't, you know, there's no need to like rail against it. But I will say, in terms of my specific situation, and being a colleague with Darren, he also was a producer, he is a producer on the show. And so his voice had weight and he cared about my voice. So I was like, Oh, actually, it behooves me to seize that and to like step into that instead of shying away from it and being like, I don't know, I have no opinions about anything like I actually do. And if you're willing to listen to that. Wonderful. Great.

[42:42] Robert Peterpaul: No, I think that's really beautiful, too. Because then is maybe you're sort of the one holding up the tent as like, Andrew comes in, or you have other people coming in opposite you, you sort of have seen the way I mean, someone wearing multiple hats, and that has just been around for so long has led and especially in the Belasco theater, which let's be real is haunted. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of shit that can go down in the Belasco from what I've heard.

[43:02] Helen J. Shen: Yes. I've also heard you describe yourself as spooky as a spook. So on my buddy, I got to shout out the drama podcast.

[43:12] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, run that pod. Okay, I guess my question I'm dancing around is like, have you experienced any freaky moments? Yeah. Any hauntings?

[43:17] Helen J. Shen: I not I haven't seen it. But what the story that happened during maybe happy ending tech was there was, I think, Dave, our house carpenter at the time was checking sight lines and was sitting in the balcony and doing stuff. It might not be Dave, but somebody was checking sight lines in the balcony. And suddenly they felt a chill. And they looked over and there was a man in a suit, like looking over like leaning over and like looking at what was going on, and then looked away and looked back and he was gone. And he like came down he was in his face white as a sheet. He was like, in a cold sweat. And he came and he was like, I just saw David Belasco. I just saw David Belasco.

[44:12] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my gosh.

[44:21] Helen J. Shen: And David Belasco was checking out tech. Same as the influencers when you guys came. I put powder on my face and I was wearing a suit.

[44:31] Robert Peterpaul: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It was you.

[44:35] Helen J. Shen: Wait, I love that so much. Because I've talked with a few folks that have worked at the Belasco and everybody either has like had a haunting or experienced one. And I don't know, I just think it's really fun. Do you think as a theater person, though, like his theater impact? He cares deeply about what's in the theater. And I actually do feel his presence and feel like he gave us a leg up and helped float us a little bit in the beginning parts. Like we were praying to David. Michael was like, everyone, go say hi to David Belasco. Thank him for being in the theater. Everyone go right now. And so we all like took a little moment and like, thanked him for being in the space.

[45:11] Helen J. Shen: I also think spiritually theater is yeah. Church or, or congregation or some kind of spiritual practice. Like I actually think being in a space together, doing one collective thing, trying to answer some kind of cosmic question. To me, I'm not a religious person at all. But I do feel spiritual. It is church to me. And it feels very sacred. So to that doesn't feel actually like woo woo to like ask David Belasco and thank David Belasco for being in the theater. Granted, I'm you know, we can go on to all sorts of other things. But yeah, I think I'm a spook. So I love this stuff. I always try to know like who the ghosts are in the theaters that I work at. I think it's probably for that reason, because you want to respect them in a way and you don't want to like actually break your leg. You know what I mean?

[46:06] Robert Peterpaul: So I think it's cool that you've had that moving into another aspect that's sort of maybe happy ending themed. I thought we could play a quick game called memory chips. And so in line with the memories uploaded to the helper bots in your show, I'm going to throw out a little prompt that has to do with you and kindness in your career and maybe happy ending. And you just say like the first thing that pops into your head.

[46:26] Helen J. Shen: Okay, does that work?

[46:30] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[46:30] Helen J. Shen: Okay, I'll probably add some music and make it fun. Full disclosure, like this will be a fast paced game, but I'll probably slow it down. Like I'll probably make it longer. But okay.

[46:35] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. So the first one is the kindest acting note you've ever downloaded.

[46:43] Helen J. Shen: Um, Michael. Before first preview before we had our first audience, said told Darren and I to just fall in love with each other.

[46:58] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's beautiful.

[46:58] Helen J. Shen: Yeah. Simple.

[47:03] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Favorite kind of note.

[47:12] Helen J. Shen: Favorite pre-show ritual that you've uploaded throughout the course of this process.

[47:15] Helen J. Shen: Besides praying to the blast. I hang out in the clerb with my girls, Claire, and Hannah Kevitt, or anybody else who wants to come into the clerb. That's my dressing room. I just like hold court. And I'm while I'm doing my makeup. People come in and tell me about their day. That's my favorite part.

[47:31] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I love that so much. I guess this leads perfectly into kindness toward cast mates. What's your favorite way to show kindness to your team? It can be your company to not just the actors.

[47:37] Helen J. Shen: Seeing how they are. It's can be if we let it can be an isolated cast in an isolated building because everyone is in their own like our stage managers in a dressing room. Our conductor is in a different room with our orchestra like it's a very like segmented thing. But we all visit each other and we all ask about our lives and stuff and, and ask about vacations and things. And, and yeah, it just feels like a really wonderful microcosm.

[48:20] Robert Peterpaul: Sounds like a party because even though it's a smaller cast, I think you still have some of the most people working on a Broadway show backstage just with the amount of people that I think it's 19 people backstage.

[48:28] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, that's a lot.

[48:28] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, people might not realize that.

[48:33] Helen J. Shen: Yeah. So amongst those people, what would you say is the way you're kind to yourself during a Broadway run?

[48:38] Helen J. Shen: Hmm, show up how you show up. Your 100% changes day to day.

[48:46] Robert Peterpaul: I almost said Helen J. Shen, which is a full name. I don't know if that makes you feel like you're being reprimanded because people say my full name. I'm like,

[48:49] Helen J. Shen: Helen J. Shen to me feels like I am performing. I am in my like, this is my stage name for sure.

[49:01] Robert Peterpaul: And friends call me Shel.

[49:09] Helen J. Shen: Oh, that's beautiful. I picture like the beach, which is very pretty.

[49:14] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, what you're like, duh. Okay, I was gonna actually ask you this might be a weird question. But what made you just like have the Jen, the J in there?

[49:20] Helen J. Shen: I said Jen as a stage name.

[49:27] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, I mean, I have the joy. I think there's something about the three entity name. It actually happened when we were trying to figure out what name I was going to put on. My friend Nicholas craft at school wrote, like a parody to Gossip Girl. Like a sound cycle to parody to Gossip Girl. And we recorded a couple and we put it on streaming. And they asked me what name I should put down. And I kind of was like, you know what, I feel like I might step into the J a little bit.

[49:54] Robert Peterpaul: Oh yeah, I love that. It's like, hello, New York. Hello, Jen was spotted.

[50:01] Helen J. Shen: Right, exactly. Kristen Bell.

[50:08] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, sorry. Back to the game, a projection from the show that you would save in your brain if you could do you have like a favorite projection?

[50:12] Helen J. Shen: Oh, my God.

[50:24] Helen J. Shen: So many. I know. The fireflies, the first fireflies.

[50:30] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it's so beautiful.

[50:30] Helen J. Shen: So beautiful.

[50:35] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, but also maybe motel sex.

[50:35] Helen J. Shen: Oh, that's really that's a fun scene.

[50:41] Robert Peterpaul: Everybody go see the show if you have not already. And you don't have time.

[50:41] Helen J. Shen: I know.

[50:47] Robert Peterpaul: So my last one here is part of this not flash on flash on is one memory from maybe happy ending this chapter that you'd really want to preserve the most as you take your leave, which might be very hard to pick. But is there like one memory that sort of defines it for you?

[51:01] Helen J. Shen: To me, the beginning is the I think the day at opening night, and then the day after opening night, like that whole run up into opening and seeing what was going to happen. And then waking up the next day to the reviews that we got was pretty insane.

[51:19] Robert Peterpaul: Does all that acclaim and these reviews inform the way you see yourself or treat yourself as an artist?

[51:24] Helen J. Shen: I didn't read any of them.

[51:29] Robert Peterpaul: That's smart, because sometimes if you read the good, then you kind of have to believe the bad. It's like a tricky dance, right?

[51:32] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, I imagine that I might revisit them and relive them. But I just trusted that whatever I needed to hear, whatever I needed to see, somebody would show me and I didn't go looking. But it does. I think the fact that it was so beloved was like, people want an original story. They were like, so excited to sit in a Broadway theater and not know what was going to happen at all. What a rare feeling that is. And to for those of us who like, grew up loving the form. This is like, what a dream to get to be a part of something that like, it came from somebody's brain, and they put it down on paper, and they worked it and molded it. And many, many, many lives touched it to make it something better. I mean, it's magic that that's pure magic.

[52:27] Robert Peterpaul: And it's preserved. And I'm sure you can't even wrap your head around the fact that people are listening to this cast album and then going to do it regionally and then maybe try to replicate you for some, you know what I mean? Like, I think it's gonna have this life that's kind of wild and probably something you won't even be able to see fully.

[52:45] Helen J. Shen: I actually wonder because congratulations. I mean, we can add Grammy to that list now. Is that something that like, you feel like you get a little psyched out with like, what's the process of recording a Broadway album? Like, it was so you know, it's gonna live forever.

[52:54] Helen J. Shen: Oh, yeah. Okay, that's a good. It was fun. Well, yes, it was fun, because I love the music. And I wanted everyone to hear the orchestrations. I like ride or die for the orchestrations. I love the instrumentalist, the musicians that we got to play with us for the album are some of them are like, I would say, I don't know, the word overqualified isn't the word, but they're like giants in their own way. Jazz cats, like people who are amazing. And then they're all we're all just like putting our own little splash into it. And it makes something that's greater than the sum of all of our parts. It's quite remarkable.

[53:40] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it's like new and familiar at the same time. I mean, I had to Google I think an intermission, maybe or maybe after the show, why love and if it was like a Frank Sinatra song, like I had to Google where that song came from.

[53:56] Helen J. Shen: I was like, Oh, it's literally brand new. The standards that they wrote feel like something that you've heard before.

[54:02] Robert Peterpaul: It's so cohesive and yet eclectic at the same time. I mean it has such a unique sound that blends together. We were listening to it last night by the fire while it was snowing as I was like typing out little questions and it felt like a record was playing even though it was coming from my silly iPhone, you know? It just was so magical and congratulations. I'm sad to see you leave but I'm sure you must feel so accomplished and I know we're all so grateful to have gotten to see you shine. And you know, before we wrap up our time together, I gotta move into something else that feels familiar but it will be new, which is The Devil Wears Prada 2, and that rhymed. This is not a drill, Helen. Can you like share anything from that experience, which in my mind is like, did you get to meet Meryl?

[54:38] Helen J. Shen: Yes, I did get to meet Meryl. I have a slay picture of us sitting on the couch together just between takes. And just she is, yeah, she is just such a class act. Watching her do anything, I mean, they built a whole office set in Astoria, and so I got to like feel like I was sitting in an office and watching Meryl Streep. I was watching Miranda Priestly walk in her heels through and like barrel through this room like a tornado, but so precise. I mean, she's just brilliant, and Anne Hathaway is also really brilliant and a wonderful, wonderful leader of a room. And to get to be a fly on the wall for their reunion with Stanley Tucci as well, and like, yeah, I mean, that was just a really crazy, crazy thing.

It's a huge project, it's a huge ensemble, of course it is, and I met so many wonderful people on it and got to kind of, oh, I think I was pretty silly though. This is my first movie and I don't know how I'm gonna feel watching it back because, wow, you know, theater, you're like, well, tomorrow I get to do it again if I messed up. So we'll see.

[55:35] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my gosh, I'm sure this is great and it is obviously such an editor's medium and that like, right, you kind of whatever takes they pick, you know, it can be so crazy to watch yourself back on film sometimes. But okay, Meryl, Emily Blunt, Anne Hathaway, like yeah, I hear such kind things about them as leaders, but they're also diligent, which is your definition of kindness. So it's like, did you witness that kind of balance at all? Like being very hard working but also still kind of everybody, like I think Meryl said she wasn't going to stay in full character this time because the last time she was very like, I don't know, weird.

[56:12] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, I just have a million questions. Yeah, she was a little bit more around, but you know, I think my take on her, which is like so silly because it's, you know, whatever, is she knows that everybody who's going up to her is like, you're the best, you're amazing, and she holds it really well. She doesn't make you feel kind of silly for fawning over her, but I imagine that, I don't know, I imagine that that kind of, if that's the only interaction that you get, like, yeah, I wonder how isolating that can be for, you know, not knowing what other people want from you. And so I just, yeah, she just cares so deeply about her work and I really admired that, and she cared deeply about the cast and the crew. She loved the crew, she was really like here to want to say hi to people and it just felt like there was such a family and I wanted to be a part of it. And yeah, I learned so, so much in not that much time, which is crazy.

[57:35] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah. Did I read you were playing what, somebody's assistant? Is that what it is?

[57:40] Helen J. Shen: Anne Hathaway's assistant.

[57:45] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, oh my gosh, so you must have learned a lot from Anne.

[57:50] Helen J. Shen: Well, she's also a Jersey girl.

[57:52] Robert Peterpaul: Girls from Jersey! Well, Meryl too, Meryl also, but Anne is a Paper Mill darling. Yes, she went to my mom's like dentist or something, I don't remember what my mom was saying, but like they also—

[58:00] Helen J. Shen: Okay, here's the thing to me. I mean, I get to talk with a lot of amazing people and I'm grateful for it, but like, I mean, Meryl's different. Like I probably would black out, but at the end of the day, it's like we're all people and like a lot of us are actually really silly and weird and like they strike me as people that also just like are really fun to be around.

[58:20] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, they were really, it was amazing. I was watching, we would do crosswords together and Anne was learning how to crochet.

[58:27] Robert Peterpaul: Crocheting with Anne, it was a novel!

[58:29] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, that is a novel. That's the chapter title: Two Weeks with Marilyn.

[58:33] Robert Peterpaul: Is that like the Michelle Williams?

[58:34] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, My Week with Marilyn. My week with Anne, my week with Meryl.

[58:39] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, sorry, I know I gotta let you go, Helen, but before we do, I have a surprise game. It's called the Compliment Game, and basically I reached out to someone in your life for a loving statement about you. It's not Meryl Streep, but maybe next time. I'm gonna read it to you and then you just have to try and guess who said it with yes or no questions, okay?

[59:01] Helen J. Shen: Okay.

[59:02] Robert Peterpaul: You can get three guesses and then, yeah, you can ask me for hints. I think I have a built-in hint for this one, but okay, this is called the Compliment Game. Insert cheesy theme song here, which I'm not going to play because it's me harmonizing with myself and we don't need that right now. Okay, here's yours: "Getting to know Shell this past year has truly been such an honor and a privilege. Of course, she is smart, talented, and an amazing artist. She is also one of the most gracious people I have ever met in my life. This past year has been full of so many big life things, and watching her navigate all of it with grace and a deep understanding of herself is just so inspirational. I just think the world of her," which is very kind, but I do have a hint because I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. Okay, do you want me?

[59:59] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, okay, I'm gonna give you the hint. The hint might give it away. I don't really know. Okay, this is the hint: ABF's, which I'm assuming is Andrew Barth Feldman's mint chocolate chip ice cream. You have some mint chocolate chip ice cream, that's the hint.

[1:00:15] Robert Peterpaul: Which maybe we should brand, I don't know, call Ben and Jerry's ABF's mint chocolate chip ice cream. This is a Maybe Happy Ending person, by the way, too, if that helps you.

[1:00:26] Helen J. Shen: Maybe it's mint chocolate chip ice cream.

[1:00:30] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, is it Carly Terea?

[1:00:41] Helen J. Shen: No, no, it's somebody that we went to American Dream with.

[1:00:46] Robert Peterpaul: You went to the American Dream mall? Okay, I have a million questions about this because I've like been dying to go there.

[1:00:51] Helen J. Shen: You should definitely go, there's so much stuff to do.

[1:00:54] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, I would say the indoor water park is what you want to do, not necessarily the amusement park because it's too much. It's too much whiplash.

[1:01:01] Helen J. Shen: Okay, I picture like Baby Geniuses. Do you remember that movie Baby Geniuses? There was like an indoor—

[1:01:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I picture.

[1:01:10] Helen J. Shen: It's like great whiplash. Anyway, great, great whiplash. Never been there, but I want to go. A deep cut.

[1:01:16] Robert Peterpaul: Oh God, oh God.

[1:01:18] Helen J. Shen: You can ask me like yes or no things, which I don't know much, but I might be able to help a little bit.

[1:01:23] Robert Peterpaul: I'm remembering the ice cream. I don't like mint chocolate chip, I'm so sorry.

[1:01:27] Helen J. Shen: Oh, that's okay. It's like an after-dinner mint.

[1:01:30] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, but some people think it's like toothpaste.

[1:01:32] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, I mean, I've never really had it, to be fair, probably since I was little, so I shouldn't really say that, but I'm a cookie dough. I'm like a cookie dough.

[1:01:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God, oh God. Who was it? Who was it? Do you want me to tell you?

[1:01:47] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, who is it?

[1:01:48] Robert Peterpaul: It is—no, I can give you another hint, actually, after having this chat. Okay, I believe it would be someone that comes to your, what'd you call them, Claire?

[1:01:56] Helen J. Shen: My Claire, but party?

[1:01:58] Robert Peterpaul: Is it Hannah?

[1:02:00] Helen J. Shen: Hannah Kevin?

[1:02:02] Robert Peterpaul: It is Hannah Kevin, yes!

[1:02:06] Helen J. Shen: Oh, okay, okay.

[1:02:08] Robert Peterpaul: Hannah, thank you so much. Hannah, you're—I believe she's your standby.

[1:02:13] Helen J. Shen: She is, she's my girl.

[1:02:15] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, this is super sweet though because it was your boy that I had been in touch with and he was like, I get to say so many kind things about Helen publicly. I want to give some other friends a chance, and so he sent me like four or five emails of people. Hannah sent one right away, and so I just thought that was an act of kindness in itself.

[1:02:35] Helen J. Shen: She's the best. She really is just the best. Like I would be—I keep, we joke about this all the time, but I would be down on the ground without her. There were so many moments both of us were like, we just need girl time and just to like get to sit in a room together and just like not talk, talk. She's probably, I would say like top three takeaways of my whole year, honestly.

[1:03:01] Robert Peterpaul: That's so beautiful, Hannah. I hope that makes you feel good, Hannah, and thank you again, Andrew, for making that happen. You know, I mean, what was it like getting to do this show with Andrew too for like six weeks? Was it? I mean, that must be really special.

[1:03:15] Helen J. Shen: It was nine weeks and it was unbelievable. It was very crazy. I think it was like a huge chapter of our lives. We would come home and talk about all the things that we were feeling, which is a lot of amalgamation of things, but to get to fall in love with each other every night and to say the things that we got to say in the show together was really beautiful. And I think a lot of people who got to see it, it was wonderful to get to invite other people into our relationship. Like that was a very special thing. I don't think a lot of other couples get to do. I will say, don't necessarily recommend doing it if you're not in a relationship where you can like get uncomfortable because we were spending so much time together and I'm a person—we've talked about the perfectionist in me—I was like giving him notes.

This is a big no-no. It was all very silly and we grew a lot from the experience, but yeah, I think I'll look back on it and see a lot of joy and like people like Hannah and the whole building came together to support him and me so much. Like we saw a lot of love in our lives from that time, so yeah, it's beautiful.

[1:04:43] Robert Peterpaul: I wish I could have seen it. I was—I really wanted to come back to see y'all together, and I think, you know, it's kind of like the pandemic. If you can make it through something like that, you're probably doing okay, which is really beautiful.

[1:05:01] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, and before we leave this, you know, beautiful time together and I let you enjoy your day off, I'm so sorry I've been just non-stop. I love, love, love blabbing. I'm having such a good time. Would you mind if we just could end our time together by you sharing a tangible kindness tip? So is there something you would like all listeners out there to do just to try and make the world a brighter place?

[1:05:26] Helen J. Shen: Stay curious about other people's experiences, ask about them, and don't assume that you know. So just ask. And also fill your own cup, put your own oxygen mask on first before you put on everybody else. That's what my nanny always says.

[1:05:43] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, and put on the—on everybody else.

[1:05:46] Helen J. Shen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it behooves you to do all of that, Ellen.

[1:05:50] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, I appreciate the reminders, and I just appreciate your time. I think you're so special, and I truly cannot wait to see what you do next. You've lived up to your kind reputation that everybody has spread out there, so thanks very much.

[1:06:06] Helen J. Shen: Thanks for chatting with me. It was so much fun.

[1:06:09] Robert Peterpaul: Of course. Until next time, remember everything is gonna be a-okay.