This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.---[0:00] Craig Conover: I'm Craig Conover, author of the children's book Patchwork, and you're listening to The Art of Kindness.[0:30] Robert Peterpaul: I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.[0:41] Robert Peterpaul: Hello friends. It's so good to be back with you. I return to the mic as a dad. Daddy-o. That's crazy to say out loud. How cool and weird and wonderful is that, though? Full disclosure, as you may have guessed, I have reached a new sub-level down deep, deep, deep in the ocean darkness of being tired, in the sea of sleep, or needing sleep that I didn't know even existed. It's a wild ride, but mainly, my wife and I are feeling so grateful for our healthy and happy little girl, Opal, little Opal. As fate would have it, she made her grand debut during a massive Nor'easter storm on 9-to-5 day, 9-to-5. What a way to make an entrance, Dolly Parton day. Now, you all know how much I love Dolly, so this truly felt like a wink from above, and so did the rainbow that appeared later that day.We looked out the hospital room window, and there was the most beautiful smattering of colors, a coat of many colors in the air. We actually played Dolly in the delivery room, which I don't know if it was allowed, but the doctors loved it, and we did play her autobiographical hit, Coat of Many Colors, which is a tale of a little girl who was bullied for wearing a beautiful handmade coat that her mama made her. This song reminds me of today's guest, see what I did there, who has written a children's book that has a similar feel to it. After chatting with someone who dons many hats of different colors, Craig Conover. Craig Conover is mostly known for Bravo's hit series, Southern Charm, which I want to say like, Southern Charm.Mocked during filming for his enthusiasm for sewing, Craig turned his pain into purpose, co-founding Sewing Down South, a growing and thriving southern-based sewing lifestyle brand. A board-certified attorney, Craig is a graduate of College of Charleston and Charleston Law School, okay. He also serves on the board of Hope for the Warriors, and is the author of a top-rated memoir, Pillow Talk, What's Wrong With My Sewing? He can now add children's book author to his long list of titles, or colorful hats, penning the book, Patchwork, Be Brave, Be Kind, Be You, which is now on shelves in bookstores from World of Kids Books. It is also on my baby's bookshelf. I did read it to her, and it was an incredibly magical experience.I think she's too young to understand the words, but not the feeling. And this teaches kids about kindness and being yourself, and how to handle bullies in a really kind way. So definitely check it out and buy it for the little ones in your life, or for yourself. I enjoyed it. This chat came to us through many acts of kindness. One from our friends at Kindness.org, which studies kindness from a scientific standpoint. And two, thanks to the magic of my beautiful wife, who gave me the time to hop back here in the studio and bring you some positively lovely conversations. You can catch video from them on YouTube and on social media at ArtofKindnessPod and at RobPeterPaul. If you enjoyed the episode, please do us the act of kindness of leaving five-star reviews wherever you listen.It would truly mean the world. Oh, audio hug. All right, I've truly blabbed enough, but I was excited. Without further ado, please welcome the kind Craig Conover. Little Craig. Craig, thank you for being here.[4:28] Craig Conover: How are you, my friend?[4:29] Craig Conover: I am good. I'm just really, really happy to be busy and happy to be speaking with you. I think it's awesome what you do. It's really great, anyone spreading kindness out there.[4:41] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thanks. Well, back at you. I can't wait to get into all the things. And you're not just busy. I mean, you're like Marvel superhero level busy with the things you're doing, which is a little overwhelming. As an interviewer, you're like, I want to talk about the book, but there's also so many other things to touch on. And I mean, I walked right into it. Congratulations on Patchwork, which I tried to represent with my little Patchwork shirt today.[5:02] Craig Conover: No, I love it. Honestly, I feel so fortunate that you wrote this book and that it's out right now because I'm about to welcome my first child and it's going to go right on their shelf. So thanks for that. It's such a cool way.[5:15] Robert Peterpaul: That's awesome. Congratulations.[5:18] Craig Conover: Thanks. Yeah. It's like a beautiful, colorful way to teach kids kindness. So I'm just like appreciative at the top here for that.[5:25] Craig Conover: Yeah. And it's really nice, too, because it's a way to talk to them about, you know, not everyone is always going to be kind and that's okay. And it doesn't mean that you did anything wrong. It just means that, you know, they, you know, for whatever reason, that's a them problem and not a you problem.[5:46] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Don't let it ruin your stitch or your shine. You know what I mean? But I do wonder, now that I've complimented you a bunch, I like to ask, how are you at accepting compliments? Because I feel like that can be a tricky thing on its own, right?[6:01] Craig Conover: I remember it changed my life. I was in college and so, sorry, I was just eating a bunch of watermelon. It's like 95 degrees here and that's my, like, go-to snack during the day.[6:14] Robert Peterpaul: That's so smart. Do you bury it in the sand? Like, bury it? That's what we do in New Jersey. We bury it way deep in the sand and it stays cool at the beach.[6:20] Craig Conover: Yeah. My sister-in-law is from Monmouth County.[6:23] Robert Peterpaul: No way.[6:24] Craig Conover: Yeah.[6:25] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my gosh. My brother's graduating from Monmouth in a week.[6:28] Craig Conover: Nice. Monmouth University.[6:30] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. Well, I'll tell you. It changed my life.[6:33] Craig Conover: Okay.[6:35] Craig Conover: So, when I went to college, I grew into myself, you know? I had, you know, some of my features, like my teeth and just like anyone, I was awkward through my, like, teenage years. My teeth and everything were bigger than my body at that time and I grew into myself and so when I got to college, it was the first time that I had started to really get physical compliments. And then my hairstyle had changed and I did not know how to receive it, you know? If someone said, nice haircut or I like your hair, I immediately went to like, oh, I think it's a little short or yeah, I know, I just got to cut it. And someone one day, like a person a couple of years older than me was like, just say thank you. They were like, if someone gives you a compliment, just say thank you.And I will never forget that. Apparently, I forgot who told me that. But so, I'm good now, basically, as you know, it's, I think it's polite and it's funny how much when you just allow yourself to receive a compliment, it really changes your perspective on things. But you know that initial instinct to be like, oh, thanks, you know, it's not like that great though. And it's like, no, just say thank you.[7:59] Craig Conover: Yeah, just like kind of nip it in the bud because it is about the other person too. And if you didn't learn that, then when you step into the spotlight and have people coming up to you all the time, you probably wouldn't get anywhere because you would just spend so much time with each person being like, no, no, I, you know, I like your shirt or whatever it is. It's hard. It's a weird thing.[8:17] Robert Peterpaul: Well, yeah. And it also makes them feel good giving you a compliment, you know? And then that takes you to the challenge where I try to challenge people I meet to give at least one compliment a day. You know, the elevator is a great time for it, standing in line, and you can just go right for the shoes, you know, to that's baby steps. You can just say, I like your shoes.[8:40] Craig Conover: Yeah, that's awesome. One compliment. It changes the course of someone's like day, it just makes you feel good.[8:47] Robert Peterpaul: No, seriously. Imagine like if you're in the elevator right before this or going into a meeting and you have the opposite versus someone complimenting you, that's going to change the way you enter the meeting. And then that'll change the person you're talking to. And then, you know, it's like a ripple effect. I mean, just think like how introspective we are when we're getting, you know, dressed up for something, say like maybe not like every day like run, but yeah, like say you're going to a meeting or a job interview or a presentation, you obviously put some time picking out what you're going to wear and you only have your opinion to go by. Most of us are inherently a little insecure and humble about stuff.And so to just have that external validation makes you feel so good, you know, because they don't know how much time, you know, you don't know what's going on in someone else's life. And it means a lot more to them than the output that you have to put into it.[9:45] Craig Conover: Yeah, it's so true. And it's science. There's actual science behind that. Not to get nerdy, but you know, we will get nerdy about it. It's science, my man. It's not just on a home goods pillow. But I'm going to pick your brain about so many things on The Kindest Son today, including your book. I thought we could work a little bit backwards. And I wonder, just to kind of have a baseline here, what would you say is your definition of kindness, Craig? And how do you think it's evolved over the years, I guess?[10:11] Craig Conover: My definition of kindness is making people feel a little bit of safety or good through your actions. You know, I still I went back to saying prayers at night, not necessarily like to anything. They're not structured. They're more like meditative things. But I think, you know, I'm like, help people find at least one sense of comfort, you know, whether that's warmth, whether that's shade, whether that's something to eat, or something to quench their thirst, just please, or a comfortable spot to lay or something like, please help people find a something that makes them comfortable. Because you know, that feeling like, if you're struggling with something, or it can be anything, but then you find something that just feels like a warm hug.And I think if you can make someone feel that, with your actions or words, even momentarily, that would be, you know, kindness to me, whether it's, you know, it's not just giving change to someone that's on the street, not change, yeah, change, sorry. It's not just giving someone change on the street, but, you know, asking them their name, which is something I learned, you know, because so many people will just pass by someone that's on the street that needs help. And it's like, well, even if you're giving them money, that's great. But no one has asked them their name today, and no one's had a conversation with them. And it's like, just that little, it's things that you don't think about really on its face.But that person, you know, just making people feel good, at least to me, you know, it's, you never know what someone's going through, and just taking their mind off it for a second, and giving them a little bit of hope is the goal.[12:22] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. It makes people feel seen, you know, that I think we just walked by, like you were saying. And I wonder, I guess, if you could share an example of someone that did that for you, I think, from growing up in Delaware, am I right? To now?[12:35] Craig Conover: Yes. Like, do you feel like there was an act of kindness that kind of changed your life overall?[12:42] Craig Conover: I think a lot of it was knowing that an act of kindness would have done so much, you know? Yes, I was very fortunate, you know, I had a safe place at home, which is why I made it through, you know, my teachers, everything was great. But in those moments of, you know, anguish or struggle, like on the school bus, when people were being, you know, mean, to just come sit next to me after would have been, you know, you would have meant the world. And maybe, you know, as I say that, it did. Maybe I had a rival in school, her name was Ellen, I was kind of the boy nerd and she was the girl nerd, but she got popular, you know, quicker. But, you know, I think one day maybe someone was being mean to me on the bus and she came and sat next to me and just started to talk to me.I mean, those are, or maybe I think that if someone would have just done that to me or come and, you know, told someone to piss off when they were trying to do something to me in the cafeteria, you know? But no, it's a good question. I think I'm fortunate that I've allowed the nice acts in my life to add up into wanting to make other people feel that way. But weirdly, the only thing I can think of is that I knew it could change a lot if someone, you know, would just... But it's scary, you know, and I get it, but, you know, especially as a kid, you don't want the attention of the bully to turn on you. Like that takes a strong person.[14:38] Craig Conover: And I mean, I remember any time there was any sort of bullying when I was a kid, I would like make a joke out of it or laugh it off or try to just like, you know, move into the same way you're going, which I think is to ultimately lead with empathy and kindness. And I think what we're talking about kind of, you know, dances around a huge thing that changed your life, which listeners will come for me if I don't ask you anything about Bravo, because being on a reality TV show, I think requires immense vulnerability. And to me, kindness also requires vulnerability. So I don't know. I wonder what is being on a reality TV show, especially on a network like Bravo, taught you about kindness?[15:17] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I think that's so as you were asking that, because my ADD is so all over the place, I'll be thinking about every question. So the one that you asked about an act of kindness that came later in life, and I think I had so much appreciation for him because it's all I wanted as a kid in my social world that I think when you grow up, which is a lot of the message, just like make it through some of those tough times. People have been really kind in our adult years. But yeah, I, you know, I'm so blessed and I speak around the country during the spring and it's funny because I'm like, thank God, I was bullied as a kid, because it set me up perfectly for reality TV. I was like, you can't do anything to me that I didn't already go through.You know, the vulnerability with TV is the only way that it works. You see a lot of people these days, they think that getting casted is the answer, right? They'll get casted for one of our shows. And they're like, my whole life is going to change and I'm going to have this long career on reality TV. And it just doesn't work because yes, getting casted is hard. But that's not the hardest part. Being yourself is the only route to success on a network like Bravo. And I remember my first year, I had no idea what was going on. And you really are bashfully yourself, you know, and your good qualities are highlighted because the network wants people to like you. And what happens to everyone is second season is the worst because you show up and you act a fool.And some of those not so great qualities are highlighted your second year. And then third year, you show up and you shut down and you try to control everything. And what you realize is by trying to control and protect yourself by basically putting a bubble up around you and not being yourself, it does you no favors. And then your fourth season, you just for me, I said screw it and was, you know, authentically myself to a fault. And that's when things started to really change for me when I just when I let people see all of me instead of trying to curate, you know, this image and that vulnerability is what, you know, is the reason that I'm still here today. But man, does it feel good when you open up?But for some reason, you know, it's tough. Like I had years ago, you know, when I was still in, I was studying for the bar exam. I was prescribed Adderall and I used to take it all the time and everyone's issues with me stemmed from that. But I never talked about it. And then one day I was just like, it's because of this. And then everyone was like, oh, well, that makes sense. And you like spend all of this time trying to protect certain things because you don't know how people are going to react. And then it just, I don't know, being yourself is the answer to so much. It is.[18:49] Craig Conover: Yeah. Well, being with, I guess, two E's to bring it back to your book, but I feel very similarly in that I also have ADHD, but I've never taken medication for it because I've always worried like what it would change about myself. So it's so funny how we like worry about ourselves and how we present ourselves. And at the same time, we like don't show our full selves. It's like such a complicated, weird thing that speak like I was. So I, um, I was fortunate that I haven't taken it in like six or seven years, but because it was hindering my personality, which everyone's different, but I was very, um, very in my own head and, you know, it's whatever, there's pros and cons to everything. What's funny is after I was able to openly talk about it on television, I was able to help so many people that I had no idea were struggling with it.People in my life, celebrities that I knew, athletes that I knew, um, all started to reach out and were like, wait, I have no one to talk to about this. Uh, do you mind if I pick your brain? And you know, communication is funny like that. If you can put yourself out there, a lot of times it opens the doors to help other people.[20:02] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Like communication leads to community, which is super cool. And you, you have like, you know, you have your own little community down in Charleston cause I mean, full disclosure, I got to watch Southern Charm, but I know everyone's obsessed with it. I get it from my friendly shout out is like your number one fan. I think she's gone to some of your mixers in Charleston and she's always like, he's so kind. I wonder in that sense, as you are a leader at these events, you're a leader in your business, you're a lawyer, as you mentioned, you're starting your own reality or just TV production company, I believe. I mean, what lessons have you taken from your life to be a leader who leads with kindness?Because I think we need more kind leaders in this world. You just, there's so much power that comes from it. Um, I think it's just the right way to do it. It comes naturally. Fortunately, it's what I prefer. I mean, I used to pray, I don't know, I've never talked about praying this much, but I used to pray that one day I remember seeing famous people when I was little and the only desire that I had to be famous one day or a professional athlete was that you could make someone's entire day by just saying hi to them. I'd see, and not everyone takes advantage of that, but I was like, man, if I was famous, I would say hi to everyone that wanted to. What a superpower that is, just getting to be yourself and you can make someone so excited and happy.And so when I was given that power or granted it, I take full advantage of it. And I love to the personal connection that I get to have with people. My leading leadership style comes from my dad. He started a cleaning company when I was born and it evolved from that. But I watched him work with his employees and clean carpets and clean houses. And then I, you know, then I wanted to work. And so I cleaned houses and painted and then tore out homes when it became like a construction company. And he just led by example. He was my coach my whole life and constructive criticism became really important to me. It's so funny as you explore relationships and you get older in life, adjusting to people that played team sports or individual sports or didn't play sports because things that inherently come from that not everyone experienced, like constructive criticism is huge. I mean, for me, if you know a way that I can do something better, tell me like that to me is kindness.[22:53] Craig Conover: Yeah, I know. But to some people, it's offensive. It's interesting. We had Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank on here a while back, which is kind of an interesting conversation. But that was his definition of kindness. He was like, kindness is honesty and you don't want to waste people's time. It's so right. But like that's not but not everyone receives things the same, you know, and I'm actually like one of my employees now I am going to have a meeting to be like, what is the best way to tell you that there is a better way to do that, you know, because also, though, if your criticism doesn't come off as constructive to me, I might be like, well, you're just being like, it's funny, like love. It's almost goes to love languages, but it's communication styles.And, you know, I got to meet Mr. Wonderful on the set of Shark Tank recently, and I grew up watching those, you know, those incredible entrepreneurs. But I have a different style than him, you know, like I he's incredibly successful, but I also value being friends with my team. And I'm very fortunate and not saying that he's not. But you know, for me, at Sewing Down South, Jerry gets to be the tough one. And he's the reason we make money because without him and that business aptitude, we want to be and I get to be the fun boss. And that's just my strength. I mean, people love Jerry too, but I'm not firing anyone and I'm not like, busting people, you know, chops for things. But yeah, you need both. I think there's a strength to that. Like I tell him what I observe and then he, you know, executes it.[24:44] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I think you need both. Otherwise, it swings too far in one direction, you know, it's like, it's a great balance. I wonder how all this applies to you as an author to get to patchwork, be brave, be kind, be you, which I think, again, is such an act of kindness to kids everywhere. And then, of course, adults, as I imagine, I'll be like having insomnia reading this book and like really taking it in and probably crying as well myself. It stemmed from you being bullied as a child, which, you know, you mentioned, was it hard for you to go back and like revisit that as you were putting together this book?[25:18] Craig Conover: It's a great question. I've just made it such a mission in my life to help children who are bullied. And I've been so anti-bullying since I got on television that it hasn't. You know, I wrote a memoir about five years ago, and I really visited it and that book too. I mean, I think it makes other people uncomfortable sometimes to hear what kids, the cruelty that kids can have. You know, we talk about bullying a lot, but not what that looks like. I mean, like, I remember one of the, it's so strange that it sticks out at me, but, you know, I can handle so much, but one time, you know, I was on the soccer bus and my book bag went missing for a while and I didn't understand it. The next day, an English class, and I mean, I never got a B until I got to college, like I went to, I was a straight A student and in eighth grade, I joined a program that allowed me to go to the University of Delaware for math and English.So I started to go to college in eighth grade or take college classes. And I, but all that to say is like my school was like, schooling was really important to me. I liked school and I got to English class and opened my, and it was like, I opened my book bag and my book was completely like medical taped shut, like soccer, like what we would tape our cleats with. And I was like, I already felt like some pain because it was my stuff. Like now, why are you touching my stuff? Like that's intrusive. And when I opened the book, they had put Doritos between the pages and it ruined the book and I had to pay for the book. And I just thought like, you know, it was like 300 bucks for this huge textbook.And I just remember being like that level of cruelty. Like I didn't understand, like I just couldn't figure it out. And I think as you tell stories about how cruel kids can be, people wake up a little bit because they're like, Oh, like what's the big deal? Like they made fun of your, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, Oh, sometimes it gets a little, you know, survival-ish with children. Someone took the time to do that on purpose.[27:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Like that's mean.[27:41] Craig Conover: And to be a child. So this book is to help children understand that when people are mean to you, it has nothing to do with you because I couldn't process that. I just didn't get why they were so mean to me until I think we were at a baseball game one day and one of the main bully's dads like hit him in front of us. And I was like, I was able to be like, wait, he is just doing to me on the school bus what his dad is doing to him at home. And then it was able to turn into this empathy for the bully, which is a really weird place to be as a child. But the book is brilliant because you don't, I mean, I guess to spoil it, I mean, little kids aren't listening. So I think it's okay. But yeah, like you don't, you forgive the bully and there's like maybe a door opening, but you're not friends at the end.[28:33] Robert Peterpaul: Exactly.[28:34] Craig Conover: Like it's just kind of left a little bit open, which I think does such a service to kids because in reality, it's, you're not always going to become friends, you know?[28:41] Robert Peterpaul: No, you're never going to become friends.[28:44] Craig Conover: And yeah, you probably are. You aren't. And like they were a huge, one of the biggest disagreements I got in when my publisher and we have this excellent expert that came on Chad, like he leads quantitative research and bullying across the country. So he's, it's the first children's book he's ever signed off on because they're not real. And this is no offense to other children's books. But as I was doing research, I was like, the bully does not apologize. Maybe in his thirties, his or her thirties.[29:14] Craig Conover: When they have children or whatever, you will get an apology from them. But as a child, the only way that they apologize is if they're forced to apologize. And then it doesn't mean anything like they're just—and to set the victim of bullying up to expect an apology or an insincere apology. I didn't want to do it. Fortunately, we ran all these focus groups and we had these little kids with us and it actually is filmed for the next season. I can give a little spoiler. You know, I don't know if you'll see it, but it's really funny. But it was really important for kids that young that there was an apology at the end of the book. And so what we did, you know, I asked the little kids, how did it make you feel when Trent— which I'm sorry, it's all the Trents out there.And actually the only Trents I know are nice, but that's the name of the bully. It's okay. It's fiction. Everybody in some regard. Yeah. I was like, well, how did it make you feel when Trent apologized? And they were all like, it made us feel really good. And then there's parenting questionnaires at the back or questions where it's like, yeah, well, what if Trent didn't apologize? How would that have made you feel? And we had this little girl running around that was like, Cynthia never says sorry when she does that to me. And the mom who was like, kind of cocky-ish, which I'm not judging her. She was just like, my kid doesn't get bullied. I'm just here for what I'm supposed to be. All of a sudden was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.Who's Cynthia? And chased her daughter and was like, wait, tell me what's going on at school, you know? And one of the dads was like, Craig, don't worry about the apology. Let us parent at the end of the book if we want to. And I was like, oh, that's great. So anyway, the book is for the kid getting bullied to be like, your weirdness is your superpower. It has nothing to do with you if someone is mean to you. And we might be able to get to some children at an age before they have any damage from bullying. And the goal is if someone's mean to them in class, they actually are like, wait, that's weird. I mean, you can join us if you want. Like, you don't have to be like. Yeah. And people aren't rallying around the bully.It's sort of the opposite. They're like, yes, following the good. I think that's the most important part of the book is like it does open up these conversations for parents and their kids to have and be honest about bullying. And after everything you just said, I also, again, have ADHD, so I'm still thinking about Doritos. And I'm like, Doritos needs to fund some kind of anti-bullying campaign with you or buy a bunch of books, give them out Doritos. I love that. Yeah. And, you know, in doing research, I don't know, I was like so taken aback to find maybe not because, again, it's reality TV, but that you were still mocked as an adult, I think, on Southern Charm for sewing. And I guess you had a famous line like, what's wrong with my sewing?And you kind of, again, turned it into something good for yourself. I'm so curious about—and I've heard you say like it's innate to you—but what makes you able to sort of just like lean into your love for what you're doing and not go in the other direction of just kind of like feeling sorry for yourself and thinking you should stop? I was so taken back when I experienced in my 20s what I experienced as a kid, different, but same, you know, different flavor, but same like, it came from the same place. It came from people's insecurities and really jealousy that they don't have the confidence to pursue things that they want to pursue, but they're worried about what people think, which is, you know, what Patchwork also is about is about a kid that wants to sew and then he doesn't at first because of what people think.I mean, it happened to me as an adult. And I remember—and to my ex's credit, she's been nothing but supportive and made it, you know, she's been great the last few years, but because fans would want to know that—but, you know, my ex, yeah, it's very important to them because the girl, Naomi, that I was dating at the time was a little, you know, she couldn't comprehend what my goals were at the time, but she is—we don't, no hard feelings to her and that's such a pressure cooker on camera, like, it's like real, but under the container of being filmed and you know, you're going to be at a show like, you know, she was, I mean, she was worried about what people would think if I, you know, put my time into sewing.And to me, I was taken back because I think it's an attractive quality to have the confidence to do something that's a little different. You know, I think that's inherently an attractive quality. And I remember being like, wow, like some people really do think, you know, they're worried about what people think, what the masses will think, not about, you know, just their close friends or parents or what they think, but, you know, they give this power to people that they don't know and whose intentions might not be that good. And then I also saw the cruel side. I mean, there were some people on my show who were the bullies growing up and we're still the same person and you could see it come out where they are too scared to chase their dreams and they see it as a mirror and the only way is to try to tear you down to make themselves feel comfortable.But then you saw the popular girl who I saw as a sister and I still do, but she jumped on the bandwagon of bullying and then you're like disappointed with someone. And of course, she's said some incredibly nice things since, but it was basically the exact same kind of ecosystem that existed when we were little. And I was just like, you know what? This doesn't go away. Everyone can relate to this. And I really want to affect this one day. You know, I want to find an outlet to be able to help, you know, the people facing this adversity.[35:37] Robert Peterpaul: No, I love that you did that. It's that herd mentality, but at the same time, the people that we look up to are singular and they're singular because they push through the bullying. I mean, I keep thinking of—go with me here—Dolly Parton. I don't know if anyone's said this to you yet, but "Coat of Many Colors" is like very to me paralleled with your book. And she was someone who like saw, you know, a woman on the street and copied her makeup and her big hair and all this stuff and used to get made fun of all the time. And now she's, I think she's ranked above Jesus in like the National Survey of Who People Love. I love that. I mean, but it's—it requires you making it through, you know, and like all of the stuff that made her Dolly Parton is what she was being bullied for.And it's everything that made her so special later in life. And if we can just, you know, reach kids to show them that that's their superpower, that's what, you know, if you get to college or out of some of those tougher years, like you find your people, that's what makes you cool. And I mean, look at those things that I was bullied for is why I am where I am today. Like you and the bully can coexist and you should be friendly to everyone, but they have their own stuff going on. And when they're ready to be friends, then great. But you know, someone that's being mean and cruel to other kids, like you don't need any space for them anyway. But also that's not the publisher wanted to not be inclusive of the bully at the end.So when the bully asked for one of our bee patches, yes, they were like, no, one day you can have them. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. We don't turn into the bully. We don't act like the bully. We show them that it's cool to be nice. You're not going to be friends with them and you're not going to act like it never happened. But that doesn't mean it can steal your kindness. So.[37:39] Craig Conover: Yeah, I love that because coexisting, I think, is an underrated quality today. Like, yeah, it is nice in a nice way. Oh, it's—sorry, I didn't mean to.[37:51] Robert Peterpaul: No, you're good. I don't know. I was going to say it's impossible on reality TV, especially. It's like, yeah, there's no room for how I am a lot of times, which is I still want to see you eat, just not at my table. You know, I like you. I'm never going to root against you, but like this entitlement to friendship and access to friendship is an interesting space, you know, you still need to earn people's friendship and trust, and that's from being, you know.[38:26] Craig Conover: Yeah. And it is like athletics in a lot of ways, what you're talking about too, because just because you may not get along, you're still sort of coworkers on this show and you still all have been—there's something no one else knows about. So it's like learning how to play together. And I think one thing we haven't touched on is not the bully, but the people that are actually there for you, like the teachers and little Craig in the book has Mrs. Hemingway, I believe, who I wonder if that's inspired by Mrs. Marlene. Miss Marlene is like, is there a teacher? Is that a teacher that inspired you?[38:59] Craig Conover: She is someone that worked at the law school when I was in college. And so I spent a lot of time with her and she stuck with me. She was just incredibly inspirational.[39:04] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. The teachers, you know, they're so underrated in this world in so many ways, but it just takes one kind teacher to sort of save a child, quote unquote, in a classroom that can be toxic with bullying. And while we mentioned the bees, you know, this book really, to me, speaks to kind of the attention spans that we all have now, because not only is it like a fast moving, entertaining story and the illustrations are so beautiful. Shout out to Maine, I believe.[39:34] Craig Conover: Yeah. On another level. Yeah. You have this fun bee patch hunt, which speaks to my ADHD because you can do like two things at once. Is that just—is that a nod to your—you’re into beekeeping too, right? Is that sort of how that came to be?[39:47] Craig Conover: Yeah. I have bees in the backyard and I hobby hop. So I get really passionate about hobbies, but I don't really ever abandon them any more later in life. Like I just have a lot going on at all times. But the bee, so yes, there's a bee with a red scarf on every, hidden in every page and we turned it into a little game. And yes, hopefully this is a book that parents love to read too. So that when the kid, when your child asked to like read Patchwork at night, you're like, ah, I think we should pick something else. Like it's a good, it's a good length and it should be fun. And looking for the bees has responded really well in the—you know, the interactiveness in the focus groups. My mom was a school teacher and elementary school teacher and my—it's funny, this movie I just filmed in August.[40:40] Robert Peterpaul: I know Actor 2 now adding, I think you said that was the original dream, right?[40:45] Craig Conover: And it was one of them. It's really fun because it's collaborative and creative. I love being on set. But what's funny is the girl who's going—it's a family drama, but her safe space is her teacher. And she writes her a poem at the end of the year and the teacher, you know, it just shows you the impact that these kind individuals have on their students. Especially if you don't have a safe space at home or you are the safe space at the school. And I think teacher's hands are tied a lot with bullying because, you know, they really can't discipline the bullies in a way that would stop the bully. And so their kindness to the kids is really what gets the children through it. But you know, I was very fortunate to have a safe space at home, but I didn't really, I didn't tell my parents about the bullying because I didn't know how, like I was so overwhelmed, confused, and stressed why it was happening to me.And I didn't know how to fix it. And I didn't want to compound the problem. And even though my parents were—did everything right. Like one of my favorite parts of the book is when little Craig kind of just falls apart because his mom's there for him. She's sitting there and his golden retriever, who's his best friend, which is how I was growing up. But he finally just breaks down into tears because he can't carry it all himself anymore. And his mom's there to be like, you know, sweetie, what's going on? And he's finally just like, you know, the way he tells her is this confused thing where he's like, all I want to do is sew. And these kids are being, you know, this kid's being mean to me about it.[42:26] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's a beautiful moment. And a beautiful mom. And I mean, it's interesting too, your mom probably knows this as a teacher, how teachers sort of get—I mean, this might be an extreme word for it, but bullied by parents, like parents of the kids. Like the emails my wife used to get when she was a teacher made me want to like hit reply and, you know, be like, you're talking to a teacher this way, especially during the pandemic. It's my mom retiring. I mean, I don't want to speak for her, but a lot of it was that she couldn't necessarily teach how she's always taught. And she also won, which Christopher, my little brother and I found out later in life, she won teacher of the year three times and gave it to another teacher.And I was like, oh, okay. I was like, why have you never won teacher of the year? And she's like, why have I just give it to someone else every year? And I was like, why didn't you ever tell us that? And she was like, because you and your brother would have never let me do that. But then, you know, a lot of times with, you know, there's a lot of issues that teachers deal with now, which they can see when it comes to learning issues with children that parents don't want to hear. And the parents are made—like parents are tough. And my mom was bullied a little bit with some other stuff. And it finally, she taught for like 25 years and retired, but she loved it.[43:51] Craig Conover: You know, people's cruelty exists and it's all projection of things that they're going through. But, no, she was an incredible teacher and she also didn't tell me, she just told me another story like a year ago where I was talking to her about why she retired and she loves retirement now, but she told me and I was like, same thing, I was like, why didn't you tell me? And she was like, because you guys would have killed the person, like you would have gone, like she was like, your little brother definitely would have, you would have just had some strong words for them. But I think, you know, getting bullied turns you into an incredibly protective person for people on the receiving end of it. Yeah, there's a strength there.And I'm sure you learned about that, like you said, with the Bullying Prevention Center at USC. What do you feel like you learned overall from working with them on this book? Because it's so cool how the story is rooted in SEL and then also their incredible work, you know, at the forefront.[44:50] Craig Conover: Chad told me something the other day.[44:53] Robert Peterpaul: Is it Dr. Chad Rose?[44:55] Craig Conover: Yeah, he's great. The best thing that I've taken away working with Dr. Chad and the center is that there's so much more for me to learn where I have the intuition and the instincts, correct, of like, I want to react and do things, my intent is good. But there's so much more to this than just an easy fix, which sounds obvious. But to me, you know, I haven't always thought of it that way. I'm just like, you know, we need to go in and we need to do this. We need to tell the kids it's going to work out. We need to tell the boys, you know, to get a grip. And why we brought. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, why we brought them in, though, is because even though our intent is good writing this book, there's still safety issues when working with children or anyone.And so we brought in experts to really. To make sure we were doing this right and make sure we were doing this 100 percent, I did like that Dr. Chad was on my side about that. You don't become friends with a bully at the end because it's not real life. I think the research was just outstanding. Like. It's really overwhelming when you hear the numbers and trying to figure out, you know, even when I clean my house, I have to take it like piece by piece. I'm like, go do that corner, go do that counter. Don't look at the huge picture, because sometimes when you look at the numbers, it gets overwhelming and there's some dark statistics when it comes to bullying. But this is our, you know, our baby step or our entry point in.I know now I'm picturing myself outside weeding because it's like I start cleaning the house and then like a half hour later, I suddenly I'm outside. I'm like, how did I get out here? I don't know. It's the ADHD thing of it all. But yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. And I think it's like the simple solutions are often the hardest. I mean, Helen Mirren spoke about this one. She's like, as an actor, the hardest thing you can do is walk into a room as yourself. But it sounds so simple. So it's like it feels like it would be for bullying and solving that as well. But it really is so complicated. And what I love about the patchwork metaphor is that to me, a patch doesn't hide damage, but it kind of makes the damage a part of your design.So is there something I wonder for you that you once saw as a flaw in your life that you kind of now celebrate? I mean, we've talked a lot about your journey with sewing, but yeah, I wonder how you've kind of like patched over things in your own life, if that makes sense.[47:40] Craig Conover: Yeah, to me, I mean, think of a quilt or blanket that's just one piece of fabric. I mean, there's a, you know, I'm sure like it's got a really clean aesthetic look, but there's no character to it, you know, and what a beautifully made quilt with patterns with no rhyme or reason, which, you know, with my like, OCD and stuff, when I did start to quilt, Missouri Star, like, taught me how. I thought there was some special skill to it, but it's not, it's just sewing a bunch of imperfect pieces together into this kind of amazing piece. And I don't want to say perfect piece because everything's with flaws, but your flaws are what makes you, you, you know, I, when I wanted to start a clothing company years ago, it was called like flawed perfection because your flaws, like you're saying, like a patch, like the patches in a quilt and basically all the patchwork, like that's what makes you different than the person that's standing next to you.And that uniqueness is where your popularity and where your importance and where your, you know, what you have to offer this world and your fellow individuals comes from. And so there is definitely some hidden or not so hidden innuendos there. And I'm just big on embracing like everything. Like when I go, I speak to so many people throughout the day, you know, whether it's, I don't want to say the, but I'm not, I'm not really at the bus stop, but we'll use that example. Like, or I'm at the airport a lot, like even in a line, you know, waiting to board a plane, I'm always talking to someone, I'm talking to someone on the, you know, next to me, if they want to, I don't bother them if their headphones are in, but like, think about all the incredible stories people have to share with each other.And if they were telling the same story, the world would be such a boring place. And you just have to look at yourself as this makeup of patches. And, you know, we've, everyone's been through tough stuff and like your resilience and how you got through it is, you know, where you're at now. I mean, when I go, gratitude has been so, I've been, it's been so important to me throughout the last few years. But, you know, like if I didn't go through some of the things I went through the last few years, like I wouldn't be, you know, in these scripted projects, like acting out, which is what's something that I've really wanted to do a long time. And I'm sure the other path would have been great too, but you are, you know, your complete story. And that's what people are interested in.[50:14] Robert Peterpaul: Well said. And kindness too, is a key ingredient on set. I mean, you're not going to stick around long on a film or TV set if you're not leading with kindness. That's a big part of the job. So I'm glad you're there. I can't wait to see the movie.[50:26] Craig Conover: Even ChatGBT will tell you that. When I ask any tips, walking out, just last minute tips, um, it even, you know, but everyone I spoke to that's in the business, but be easy to work with and be kind to everyone. And that's the answer to so much though, just be kind. And there's a magnetism that comes from that, that people just want to be around.[50:51] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I agree. No one wants to be around the opposite. And I've loved, you know, getting to be around you. I thought we could wrap up with a little flash round here that I'm calling sew and tell, although we're not really sewing, but we're going to stitch together your little kindness blanket. So I'm going to say a phrase and then you respond with like the answer or advice. I think you'll get it kind of as we go. Not really a game. I made it up. It's like a flash round situation, but should we try it out?[51:14] Craig Conover: Yeah, let's do it. Sew or tell.[51:19] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, here we go. Sew and tell or tell your favorite way to show kindness to others.[51:25] Craig Conover: Ask a stranger their name when you say hi to them as recently, what I've been doing just to make them feel a little safe and connected to you or random compliment. It's an easy way to start, you know, like I said, just, just saying, you know, nice shoes to someone and change their whole day.[51:45] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it's a great icebreaker. Your favorite way to receive kindness.[51:51] Craig Conover: Probably just a smile. I like when people smile at me because it's sincere. Usually, you know, it's not something that people can really fake that that much.[52:02] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's a good one. The kindest thing a stranger has ever done for you. I mean, you did share that story at the beginning, but they weren't necessarily a stranger. We just...[52:11] Craig Conover: Yeah. You know, to be honest, that comes from when you get to college, and you're probably out later as a young kid for, you know, the first time in your life around all of these strangers and new people and probably just in a time of need someone, you know, get home or if you weren't feeling good, you know, in public, you know, once you start traveling for work, just take someone taking care of you when you're not feeling your best.[52:40] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. What would you say speaking of best is the best piece of advice you've ever received?[52:46] Craig Conover: Honestly, it goes back to that how to receive a compliment. It really sticks with me of, you know, if someone gives you a compliment, just say thank you. That and there will be a time in your life when you're trying to level up, which for a year, you should try to make everything your fault, like everything that happens to you in your life, make your fault. And it changed my life. I used to have, I was really good at making excuses for stuff and explaining things away and trying to offer context. But for a year, I said, What if none of that matters? And it's just what could you have done to fix it or do better? And when I started to make things my fault, and not everyone else's, it really changed my life. I stopped, you know, good, like, no one's coming to give you permission to chase your dreams that you decide, you know, all you need to do is give yourself that permission. And we'll see. And, you know, you'll see where you end up.[53:49] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I never heard that one. I like that. That's a great one. What about Okay, the book has to do a lot with Little Craig. So I thought we could incorporate Little Craig here. What would you say was your favorite childlike indulgence? One that you still love besides sewing? Is there something that makes you feel like a kid today?[54:09] Craig Conover: I was allowed to cook. I got free reign in the kitchen. And I loved coming home from school and cooking. I was very fortunate that my parents, you know, if I wanted to cook dinner, I could cook anything that I wanted. And I just it was such an outlet of creativity. And my poor dad, my mom cooks, my dad cleans the kitchen, but I was such a messy cook. I still am. And they're always laugh because when I go home, I, I like come home and I go crazy cooking for my family. And they're always like, Well, you can tell Craig's here because the kitchen's like a mess. Everyone has. It's how I show my love is through cooking for others a lot.[54:51] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, as long as it's, you know, delicious in the end, you know, you'll get forgiven.[54:55] Craig Conover: Yeah. Okay. The next one here is the most ridiculous thing you've ever sewn.[55:00] Craig Conover: Oh, a hunting vest. We were going hunting on Southern Charm and I embroidered a hunting vest after sewing it together. I put turquoise stitching, turquoise blue stitching on it. And it actually looked sick because it was still like did its job of being like orange and green for, uh, for hunting standards, but I personalized it and made it, you know, my own. So when people looked at it, they're like, Oh, that's definitely Craig's.[55:30] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Okay. The last one here is something a lot of people struggle with, which I think I maybe know yours, but what would you say is your self kindness is sewing and stitching? What you go to when you need to recharge?[55:41] Craig Conover: Recently, it's been physical activity, which is another thing that changed my life. I used to really not talk about it because I didn't want to intimidate people or to, you know, I, I just didn't want to overstep in other people's lives, but it changed my life, especially with my ADD and not ever having structure, but needing structure is I, by adding physical fitness into my life in the morning, um, my entire life has changed. And that's just my favorite place to be now. It's like at the gym or working out. And, um, you know, you start for many reasons, but it becomes, you keep doing it for this level of peace that you attain that I've just never had in my entire life. And I am very close with my parents these days.I always have been, but I call them a lot now. And, you know, I'll be like, is it lame that I'm going to the gym on a Friday night or something like, well, is that what you want to do? And I say, yeah, that's what I want to do. And I think that's another lesson from it is, is doing what you want to do instead of things for other people. This has been a big year of not doing things because you know, like not going somewhere just because I'm expected to be there from other people. Like just really being a little more selfish with your time, I guess. Like if you want to do something great, go do it. But if not, like you're, you don't have to please every, you know, everyone.[57:17] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, you got to be with two E's true to yourself. Well, I think that's such a beautiful place to land this conversation. And, you know, we've touched on so many of your incredible accomplishments today, just like a little of them on the CVS, like receipt that is your life, but I'm sure little Craig would be really proud of big Craig. So thanks for stitching a kinder world and being here today. Really appreciate it.[57:38] Craig Conover: You know, what he would be the most proud of though, is being is the kind part. Yeah, it really is. That's if you told him everything that you haven't accomplished, it's like, well, please tell me that you, you know, I think all he would want to know is how you used all of that to, to give back. And that's what, that's what we're working on. No, I appreciate you doing that. I think that's the point of life. So yeah, I'm, I'm agreed there. Thank you. Oh, I'm a big fan, Robert. You're an awesome person and love everything that you're doing right back at your friend until next time. Remember everything is going to be okay.