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[0:01] Jayke Workman: Yes, yes, you heard correctly. The rumors are all true. Alright already, alright. I'll come clean. I got a dog. Oh my god, did you hear? Did you hear? Did you hear? Oh my god guys. Jayke got a dog. I can't believe it. Jayke got a dog. Oh my god guys. Jayke got a dog. Oh my pod, oh my pod u guys. What's up everybody? My name is Jayke Workman and this is Oh My Pod U Guys, a musical theater and pop culture podcast. You guys, what is the cool jams? Okay yeah, let's get right to it because you heard it already. You guys, my life has been cuckoo nutty bananas crazy flipped upside down and all around because I got a dog. My very first dog on my own. You guys, I turned 30 years old. Things are happening.

Yes, I've admitted I'm turning. I have turned 30 years old. And I thought, you know what? I am in this position now where I have a full time Broadway contract. I'm in Chicago the Musicale on Broadway. And I'm 30 years old and I am going to get my first dog. And it happened very quickly. And shout out to my darling dear Miss Emma Flynn, one Glinda Upland of the Upper Upland, who works for the wonderful organization True North Rescue Mission in Brooklyn, who really sort of fast tracked me and got my name to the right people to get this angel dog, Rocky. He is a he's a Jack Russell mix. He's a rescue, of course, so we don't entirely know his exact breed, but he could not be more wonderful. And my life has truly flipped all around upside down because I have this baby dog.

So I'm going to post photos of him on the pod Instagram. So find them there. But, yeah, you guys, we have to dive right into this week's episode. We spoke to the amazing Al Tapper, wonderful producer and writer and composer, and he has a show that is currently playing at the A.M.T. Theater Off-Broadway, where I had the pleasure of doing my Off-Broadway debut two years ago. So it was very sort of special and full circle for me. So without further ado, please welcome into your ears Al Tapper.

[2:31] Jayke Workman: Oh, my pod, you guys. I am so excited to welcome my next guest to the show. He is a creator, a producer and the creator of the upcoming Off-Broadway show at the A.M.T. Theater After All These Years. Please welcome into your ears Al Tapper.

[2:50] Al Tapper: Oh, thank you. And I'm very glad to be here.

[2:53] Jayke Workman: Thank you so much for being here. I always ask my guests, where are you calling in from on this fine day?

[3:00] Al Tapper: Well, I'm in midtown Manhattan.

[3:03] Jayke Workman: Love it. Have you been there for a long time?

[3:06] Al Tapper: I've lived in this apartment for 25 years. And before that, I lived in another apartment for 11 years. So I guess I'm pretty much a New Yorker.

[3:16] Jayke Workman: I guess you could. I guess you qualify for claiming being a New Yorker. It was so funny. I was actually in a cab last night and the driver was like, how long have you are you in New York or how long have you lived here? And I said, I've lived here almost eight years. And he was like, all right, well, we'll let it slide. You can you can claim New York.

[3:35] Al Tapper: Yeah.

[3:36] Jayke Workman: Yeah. Eight years is not a lot of time.

[3:39] Al Tapper: No. I mean, it feels like I've been here for far longer than that. But then I think back and I'm like, wow, I have only been running in the New York circuit for that long.

[3:48] Al Tapper: Yeah, I understand. I'm from Massachusetts originally. And I tend to think that I've lived in New York for 40 years and I just can't imagine living anywhere else.

[4:00] Jayke Workman: That's exactly how I feel, too. I'm a New Yorker. True. And yes, tried and true. Well, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to talk about your upcoming show. But before we dive into that, I really wanted to ask you about the A.M.T. theater specifically, because I have had the pleasure of doing I did my off-Broadway debut in Foul Play at the A.M.T. theater two years ago.

[4:23] Al Tapper: Isn't that great?

[4:25] Jayke Workman: It was so much fun. I had such a wonderful time there. But I love the space and it's so special. And I'd love to know sort of your history with it, because I think if I if I'm correct, it was like partially your brainchild was bringing this theater to Manhattan.

[4:41] Al Tapper: Yes, it was. Well, what happened in kind of I don't know if it's a short or long story, but I've written a lot of shows with Tony Sportiello, who's the artistic director at A.M.T. And we had written a show play called On the Right Track. And we were having lunch around the corner on 95th Street, 45th Street and 9th Avenue. And we couldn't find a theater to play it. All off-Broadway theaters were booked.

[5:09] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[5:10] Al Tapper: So I said, let's build our own theater. So he looked at me like I was crazy.

[5:15] Jayke Workman: Right.

[5:16] Al Tapper: OK, so we took a walk out and walked down 45th Street where there was a studio, a dance studio. I don't remember the kind of dance it was, but it was pokers or something like that. And they were closed down. So I looked in the theater and I said, yeah, this looks good. Let's build a theater here. So we did. I had a contractor. I had an architect. I designed it. I knew what I wanted. And within a year we had it all built. And we've been there for five years now.

[5:52] Jayke Workman: It's so amazing to know that, like, even with I guess I just I think like often people think of New York as being this like fully established thing where it's like, OK, well, this is it. This is all there is, you know, like, how do we everything's full? And it's like, no, no. You could literally stroll down 45th Street, spy up an empty place and be like, OK, this is going to be where we're going to go.

[6:16] Al Tapper: Absolutely can do that. If this if I were just lucky to have found this one place. But if we didn't find it, we would have found dozens of other places. There are so many spaces that are available in New York that that either the people that were renting and are no longer renting it or or it's an empty space. And if it you have to have a certain size in order to build a theater.

[6:42] Jayke Workman: Sure. But yeah, there's a lot of there's a there's a lot of real estate available in New York.

[6:46] Al Tapper: Yeah. And I think it's also just the the imagination and the ability to to think, you know, I'm I have something that I need to create and we need a space to do it. So we'll find the space. That's so cool.

[7:01] Al Tapper: That's exactly how it happened. And I knew what I wanted in terms of I wanted it to be all black and white. I wanted to have a drama feel to it. Yeah. And I think we captured it. And we've been very, very successful. And it's been a joy to do it.

[7:20] Jayke Workman: It's so special. And I just, you know, of course, I'm like coming at it from a place of like, thank you for having that vision and the desire to to create a space where new off Broadway theater can happen. But I've also, you know, had the pleasure of seeing other shows there and the space is really transformative. It's really cool to see what people can do on that little stage. And with that room, I got to see actually a friend of mine who was on the pod, Jessica Hendy. She did her solo show, Walking with Bubbles there. And I loved it. And I just think it's so special that, you know, that's great that you've been there. And also that you've performed there. That's that is wonderful.

[8:01] Al Tapper: Yeah, I think. I thank you for that. Come again.

[8:04] Jayke Workman: I absolutely will. Any any time you'll have me. Have you always had that that sort of spirit of of wanting to bring new works to life and help like foster?

[8:16] Al Tapper: Well, I think generally it's a good question. I think that that I've had that sense in everything that I've done in my life, that if I wanted to do something, I never I never thought, no. So if I want to do something, it doesn't mean I always got it done, but I always attempted to do it. If I had an idea, I would pursue the idea. It was never. Gee, I think I'd go home and go to bed. It'll be easier. Whatever thought, every idea I had, I tried to turn into a reality. Many times it was successful and at times it wasn't.

[8:55] Jayke Workman: Where do you think that came from? Was it was that like the style in which you were raised of like, if you want to go and get something, go and get it?

[9:03] Al Tapper: I don't know. I don't know where it came from. I don't think it came from either of my parents. But I, I always felt that the opposite of doing something would be failing. And the fear of failing was so great that I think it was my motivator, my engine, that if I didn't do something, I failed.

[9:29] Jayke Workman: Yeah. So at least if I did it and it was successful, great. If I did it and it wasn't successful, it was still great because I did everything. I still did it. So I think that the energy or the inspiration comes from a fear of not accomplishing something or failing.

[9:48] Jayke Workman: Well, it's interesting to think of that in terms of being a creator and a writer, as you are, because, you know, like you said, even if it's not, quote unquote, commercially successful, if you've created something, you've achieved that already. You have put the pen to paper and there is a product there.

[10:04] Al Tapper: Yes. And also when you write it, if it's not successful right away, it doesn't mean that 50 years from today somebody might find it successful. Somebody might say, gee, I heard about this show. I read it. I found an old book in a trash can. And so, you know, if you write something or if you write music like I do, it doesn't disappear. It's always out there. It may not be a hit right away, but it's something that has a life and can't die.

[10:40] Jayke Workman: Totally.

[10:41] Al Tapper: So the hope is that it will be successful. If it isn't, it doesn't stop me. Not having a successful outcome doesn't really negatively affect me. I mean, of course, we'd like to have great reviews and we'd like to have our work accepted.

[11:06] Jayke Workman: You've certainly had your slew of great reviews.

[11:09] Al Tapper: I've had enough success so I can handle failure.

[11:12] Jayke Workman: Sure. That's a great way to put it. So how has your writing career, and I guess also in tandem with being a producer, lent itself to the show that you have created now After All These Years that's about to open, I think, in like three days at the A.M.T. Theatre?

[11:32] Al Tapper: Yeah, it opens on September 10th.

[11:34] Jayke Workman: Yay! That's so exciting! The reason, I had written a book not too long ago. It was called Sitting on the Stoop. It was about a guy. I want to tell you a little bit about it so I can get into your answer.

[12:01] Al Tapper: He was excited. He was sitting outside on a stone wall and he was walking up his steps and he said, my God, I'm retired. This is great. I don't have to go to work anymore. I don't have to go to work tomorrow or any time after that. So this is great. And then he says, so what am I going to do? What am I going to do now? And in my book, he falls and hits his head against the stoop, becomes 22 again. And he swears that he will live his life the way he wanted to live it and should have lived it the first time. And he goes through all the things that he wanted to do in his life. So from there, I wanted to write a memoir. I've done enough things in my life that I wanted to write a memoir. But I said, I'm a songwriter, you know, so how can I write a song, a memoir without music?

So I said, well, I won't write them. I'll just write stories of different aspects of my life. And I'll write a song that relates to that particular episode. That's what the show is about. It has me on video. Oh, no way. And I tell a story. Yeah, I tell a story. And when the story is over, there's live singers on stage and they sing the song that relates to the story that I just told. So it's, it's an interesting idea in that sense that it's never been done before. That's the risk we took. And there's never been a theatrical entity, which has video combined with live theater. Right. So who knows how it will be accepted, but I think it's pretty good. I mean, you know, what should I say? It's not good.

I think it's pretty good. So and I hope people feel that way. Because I'm sharing different aspects of my life with them as a memoir. But also at the same time, I've written 18 songs that relate to the stories that I've been telling on the video. And then the live performances are the singers who come on stage and they sing the song. Yes. So that's what the show is about. And that's how it came about.

[14:28] Jayke Workman: That's so exciting. I actually have a pal who I went to school with Lawson Llewellyn, who's going to be one of the understudies in the show. I'm very excited to come in.

[14:41] Al Tapper: Oh, yeah, yeah, he's good. Yeah, I think I think he's gonna be on. Oh, I think I think I think there's one show, at least one, and where the character, the actor that's in the show right now has to take a day off. And I think that he's, you know, that you might find out from him if you're friendly, I was gonna say, I'll just have to find out from him. And he because believe me, he'll know. I mean, yeah, the day that he's gonna know, because he's got to be rehearsing. There's a lot of there's a lot of work to do to a lot of work to learn 18 songs.

[15:17] Jayke Workman: Absolutely. Yeah. So in talking about, you know, creating basically a score for your story, what do you take inspiration from? Are there other creators and writers or, you know, pieces of art that inspire the way that you write the way that you hear melodies in your head? Or like, how do you even begin to think like, okay, this is the story, this is the era, the episode of my life, I'm going to put that into a piece of music?

[15:50] Al Tapper: Well, I wouldn't say it's inspiration, I would say it's more perspiration. But the I think the answer to your question is the kind of music that I write are standards. They're not of 2026. I don't write hip hop music, although I've written hip hop songs, it's not what I like. And I don't do and I don't, I respect it. And I put a couple of hip hop songs in one of my shows. But my style is more of the great composers of the past, who wrote these great Broadway shows, like Richard Rodgers, or George Gershwin, and Cole Porter, and Jerry Herman, and also a page out of the book of the Beatles and Billy Joel and some of the top groups in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I worked at the Brill Building, as a songwriter, when I was a teenager.

And right there on 49th. Oh, yeah, right one side of me. I had a little cubicle with a piano, everybody did. And on the left side of me was Carole King, who was then Carole Klein. She was my age. She was a songwriter. And the other side of me was on the left side of me was Neil Sedaka. And I was in the middle. Sure, those two. I thought that my music was equally as good as theirs. I really did. But they could do one thing that I couldn't do. They could sing. And I couldn't sing. I mean, I sing okay. But, you know, nobody really wants, nobody really wants to hear me sing. They even said to me one time, they even said to me, don't sing, just write them. So it was around the days of the singer songwriter.

Yeah, that this started. And before that, all songs that were written were written by composers or lyricists. And then they had brought it to a publisher or a record company or an artist directly, and they sang it. But when the kind of the Beatles came along, they had written their own songs. And that became the style. And if you didn't write your own songs, you couldn't get a record company to really take great interest in you. I mean, I sold songs to record companies, but not as if I if I could sing, I would have had a much greater chance the way the others did. And we all worked together. Yeah, I mean, there was like a row of people with the in rooms the size of five feet by five feet with a with an upright piano.

And that's all you had. And Don Kirshner was the producer. Wow. I don't know if you heard that name. But of course, he was big in those days. And if you wrote a song, you took it and you put it on a pile of a basket. And then he'd send somebody by and take the song if he liked it. You know, I sold him one song that I still get royalties for all these years later. And I it's a lot. It's about 18 cents every three months. Sure. And that's a lot. Hey, but you get the credit. That's the right. That's the most I ever got. But I still get it. So somebody's got to be singing it somewhere.

[19:33] Jayke Workman: Well, and how wild. I can't even remember the name of the song.

[19:39] Al Tapper: But you cashed that check.

[19:44] Jayke Workman: Oh, yeah. I take 18 cents.

[19:51] Al Tapper: How crazy. 18 cents. Can you believe that? Every time. That's so funny. I love, too, that there was an era where that really was the standard. And now it's like completely shifted where now it's like you're kind of an anomaly if you are a singer who also writes your own stuff in the world of contemporary popular music. It's so different. But I would love to know, too, does it feel different this show and this project for you? Does it feel more vulnerable at all because it's so tied to your own story as opposed to writing a show that isn't necessarily about you or your experiences?

[20:32] Al Tapper: Well, I've written 11 shows. Yeah. And that's a lot. And I would say so. Yes. And I can't say that I haven't learned from every one of them. I think I have. I've learned something about myself from every show. And I put a little bit of myself in every show. I write the music and lyrics to every show. And sometimes I also write the book. Cool. But when I have all those pieces together, there's no other way other than to draw from your own experiences and put them on paper, put it on the computer or put it on the piano, wherever it might go. So yeah. So I would say that this one, although is about just about me and about my life, the others always seem to be the same. They might be writing for a character who maybe nothing not named me and and just a character in the show.

But he had a little bit of me in him because I created him. So I think we all draw from our own experiences in order in order to create something that is going to be meaningful to other people. Yeah. If people want to know about who you are and in some ways you have to tell them, even though you don't tell them outright, you don't come out and say, this is me. You do it in the form of a song or the lyric of a song, or you do it in creating a character for a musical.

[22:01] Jayke Workman: Sure. That's so special. And I think it's so cool that because you have written it, but you are not singing your songs, you get to sort of hear how other people channel your experience through themselves and through their own voices.

[22:17] Al Tapper: Absolutely. It's a great point. I find that they improve it. They make it better. If they're good performers and they really feel something, they give something of themselves to it and it adds to what I wrote. I don't think I've ever said I can do that better. I don't think I've ever said that. I mean, not I mean, I do have to sing it in order to teach the song. Sure. But I believe that if the performer is really good and really has a great singing voice and has a soul, they usually improve my songs. I would probably imagine. And therefore, it's a joy. It's a joy to listen to them.

[23:43] Jayke Workman: Absolutely. And they probably, you know, mine things out of it and find things that you may not have even noticed that you put in there or noticed that would be significant.

[23:54] Al Tapper: That's right. You know, I'll write the melody and they might decide, you know what, I'd like to have this harmony note in there. And I said, yeah, why didn't I think of that? And now they get your 18 cents.

[24:02] Al Tapper: Sometimes, of course, the other is true that if the song and the singer is not that good, then I'm disappointed in their performance. But I would say more often, it's a pleasure for me to sit back and listen to somebody sing something I wrote.

[24:02] Al Tapper: He knows exactly what I want. I mean, after the first show, there was a little bit of discussion. Second show was a little bit less discussion. Now there's no discussion. I send him the song, he knows exactly what I want, and he gives me exactly what I want. He's a really good guy and a real talent. That's fantastic. I'm so excited to see it. Well, switching gears a little bit, before I let you go, I do want to ask about your experience in the production of documentaries and film, because you have done quite a few of them. And I wanted just to know sort of the difference of your approach for those projects. How you go about doing a musical, creating music and lyrics, not just for After All These Years, but for other previous musicals. Where do those meet for you? Or are they completely separate?

[24:59] Al Tapper: They're totally separate. They're totally separate. I think it goes back to what I said in the beginning, which is, if I think something's a good idea, I'm going to try it. I'm going to try to do it. I'll give you an example. I wrote a show called Broadway, The Jewish Legacy. As I had found out, that 95% of all the songwriters of the golden age of Broadway were written by Jews. But I didn't know why. So I went to see Julie Stein, who is a great, who wrote Gypsy and he wrote Funny Girl. And I knew him, I met him at a restaurant, so we had a little bit of a relationship. So I asked him, he said, because all the music on Broadway is Eastern European in its style. If you take a look at, listen to Rachmaninoff or Shostakovich or any of the great composers, Russian or Polish composers, they're all melodic.

And you can take from those symphonies, melodies that you could turn into a song. And so the root of Broadway music, or I can't say the root of hip hop, because that's a different ethnic culture. But Broadway was very Jewish because Jews all came from Eastern Europe, a majority of Jews came from Eastern Europe. And either these great songwriters like Gershwin and Richard Rodgers or Jerry Herman, and I don't know, I can't think of more, but they all were, Irving Berlin, Harnik, Harnik, and all either were born in Eastern Europe, or their parents were born in Eastern Europe, and they were born here. But their parents were still very Eastern European in their style and the way in which they lived.

And in the Jewish home, there was always a violin or a piano, one or the other, they had to have one of them. And so the kids, like Irving Berlin was probably the foremost American songwriter. Somebody once asked Jerome Kern what he thought of Irving Berlin and American songwriting. And his answer was Irving Berlin is American songwriting. And Irving Berlin was born in Russia, at a pogrom at his home in Russia, and came over here when he was eight years old. And look at the output that he came up with. And his lyrics are so American, so uniquely American and uniquely New York. I mean, it's amazing. And that's where it all started for him. So that's when I wanted to do the movie. I know who did it, and I know why they did it.

And I thought, you know, I gotta tell this to the world. So I did that. And I did another movie called Ted Williams, the greatest hitter that ever lived. Ted Williams was my hero growing up. Because I was from Worcester, Massachusetts, and he played for the Boston Red Sox. And when I say he was a hero, he was a hero. There was nobody else. There was only Ted Williams. And I felt I owed it to him to do a story on his life. And so the title was Ted Williams, the greatest hitter that ever lived. And Broadway, the Golden Age really is all the great stars of Broadway during the 40s, 50s and 60s. And that was a love too, because there were 100 of them we interviewed. And what I found out about them was, they were really nice people.

I mean, they weren't, they were, they were stars. They were huge Broadway stars, when being a Broadway star was something really to talk about. Today, it's not, it's not as much, you know, movie stars are more significant. But in those days, if you were a Broadway star, you are larger than life. And interviewing all these people, I found them to be so likable, and so courteous, and so respectful of their art, and of the people and us, the people they were talking to, who weren't anybody, we were just interviewing. And, and, and they were, they were just great. The only person we couldn't get was Marlon Brando. Oh, couldn't get Marlon Brando. So, so somebody, I wanted to get Marlon Brando, this gives you an idea of what I said about doing something until I could fail.

So I knew somebody that told me once that they knew Marlon Brando, so I called him. He said, Well, I didn't know him that well, but I know somebody that does, and here's his number. So I called that person. And that person essentially said the same thing. Well, I know him, but I don't know. Here's another number of somebody that really knows him. This went on four times, until I found a person that really knew him. And I said, Well, can you give me his address or his telephone number? And he said, Well, you can't call him. Okay, right. I said, Okay, can I have his address? And he said, Well, there's one thing you can't write him. You have to write the letter to his dog. True. I said, I said, What's his dog's name?

And, and so he, so he gave me the address, and I wrote to his dog, you know, and, and ultimately, he wouldn't be in it. But he did call us. He said, I think I think he was not looking so well in those days. You know, he was older, and he was not wanting to be on camera. He was so heavy. And he didn't he didn't want to be on camera. Sure. But he was incredibly nice. He couldn't find a nice person on the telephone. He said, Anything you want from me? I'll give you I'll get you have you got calm all in yet? And he said, No, we haven't. He said, I'll get you calm all. I mean, he did that about he did that about three or four times. So he was really, wow, a very, very, very lovely guy. That's so amazing.

Anyway, that that's, and the and the last movie that I just did, was called this ordinary thing. And it's about Gentiles that save the lives of Jews during the Holocaust. And it's an honors the Gentiles that risk their own lives, to allow Jews to live in their house and hit them. And they're heroes. So yeah, there's a lot of stories about the Holocaust, but there's never been a story about those people that risked their own lives to save them. And that's the movie. And that's playing now. It's on. It's on. Prime. Prime. I think I mean, it's on one of them. Prime Netflix. I never know. I can't wait. Yeah.

[32:02] Jayke Workman: I cannot wait to watch. I'm particularly thrilled about this ordinary thing. But also, I am a huge Broadway nerd. Obviously, I have an entire podcast about it. So I have to watch the Broadway legends.

[32:12] Al Tapper: Oh yeah, right. That you're going to really love that. And again, you're going to see how nice they are, even on air. Yeah, you know, they're saying, is it okay if I sit here? Yeah. Do you want me closer to the camera? I mean, everything was just just so accommodating to us that I was really struck by it. I'll tell you one quick story. I left with Gwen Verdon left at the same time. And she said, How are you getting home? I said, well, I'll take a cab. I live in the I live in the east side. She said, Never mind, I'll take you. She she she lives nowhere near where I live. She drove me all the way home.

[33:02] Al Tapper: No way. It gave me another 10-15 minutes of interview with her. And and she was just, you know, maybe maybe the best dancer on that Broadway has ever had is Gwen Verdon, and she was just delightful.

[33:14] Jayke Workman: Oh my God, I have a framed photo of her in my dressing room.

[33:20] Al Tapper: Oh, that's great. Great. I have a picture of her too. She she was a she was a lovely, lovely, kind person. Wow, who loved to talk about her career and love to talk about Broadway. And especially we love to talk about Bob Fosse, her husband.

[33:35] Jayke Workman: Yeah, yes. So it was it was a treat for me to be able to have her do that for me. I always feel like this strange connection and maybe it's just because I am, you know, self indulgent and thinking about it in terms of me. But like, I always feel a connection to to Gwen Verdon and Mr. Fosse because of doing Chicago and being in such a legacy show where, you know, even we're about to celebrate the 30th anniversary of this revival of the show that opened in 1975. And it's still so relevant. And it's still we do it eight times a week. And so it's just so wild to think of, like, you just casually in a car with Gwen.

[34:20] Al Tapper: You know, you know, I think that's great that you do that. I mean, when you talk about a musical director like Fosse, Fosse created something that had never been done before. To me, that's art. Art isn't somebody that can just paint, for example, you could say the same thing for music. Art isn't something you can just a lot of people can paint. But if you create something that's never been created before, that's art. Right. Now, this talent and people can paint and and it can be very good, but it's not art because it's been done before. So when you create something that's never been done before, that's that's true art.

[35:03] Al Tapper: And it is so clear. It's so apparent when you feel it and you get to take in something that has. Oh, yeah. You know, like when you see something that is really different, you know, it's it's special. Right. It is never been done before.

[35:23] Jayke Workman: Well, Al, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. I am so, so excited to come see your show. It literally opens in three days from when we're recording on September 10th and it runs until October 10th.

[35:34] Al Tapper: October 10th. Right. You know, I'm great, Jake. Come come when you come. Hopefully I'll be there and we can talk.

[35:40] Jayke Workman: I would love it. Yes. I'd love to meet you.

[35:46] Jayke Workman: You guys, that's it for another episode of Oh My Pod, you guys. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe anywhere you listen to the pod. And you can follow the show on Instagram at Oh My Pod, you guys. Talk soon. Bye.