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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello. Happy New Year and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Tim Howard from Western Connecticut on the show. For our newer listeners, welcome aboard in this beautiful year of 2025. This is another one of our college deep dive episodes where we explore the landscape of the college theater world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. I'm recording this intro before the holidays as I've hopefully now for the past week been enjoying sipping some metaphorical Mai Tais and not recording any podcasts whatsoever. So if anything transformational happened in the last eight days of college musical theater, I'll be addressing it on January 8th.

I hope everyone is having a great holiday. Maybe HAD is having wherever we are here on January 1st. Maybe you've lined up some beautiful resolutions. And for our seniors, maybe you are ready to dive into the prime season of auditions. I know our juniors are really revving up to go as they look forward at what comes ahead. It's always a really fun time of year for us as we really navigate both of your journeys. The seniors are really in the thick of it and the juniors are really beginning to start the process. I will see many of you at our January mock in a few days and am very much looking forward to it. That's it. I really hope you enjoy this interview with Tim Howard from Western Connecticut.

[1:42] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by Tim Howard from Western Connecticut. Tim has a BA in music from Baldwin-Wallace University and spent some time at the New England Conservatory. He's acted all over the place, including in the Broadway national tours of Showboat and Parade. He's done some amazing directing work, which maybe we'll make him tell you a little bit about. And he's taught previously at Marymount and Stevens Point before becoming the musical theater coordinator at Western Connecticut, which is located in Danbury, Connecticut. They take classes of about 16 and they offer a BFA in theater arts with acting and MT. We can talk about those concentrations, a BA in theater arts and some more stuff. Tim, welcome on the pod. How are you doing today?

[2:24] Tim Howard: I am so well.

[2:26] Charlie Murphy: Oh, good. I'm so glad to hear that. I know I'm catching you at the end of your semester, so we're all ready to celebrate some holidays hopefully in a few weeks.

[2:33] Tim Howard: We are. We are indeed. I'd love to hear, though I'm realizing I'm saying this, watch it's going to get released post holidays and they're all going to be like, this doesn't make any sense. Well, that's the magic of podcasts, folks. I don't know what to say. I love to hear. I gave that brief little bio of you just a couple of bullet points there. I'd love to hear just about your journey to Western Connecticut. Is there anything else before we dive into the specifics of the school that you'd want us to know just about your journey there or in terms of your career or your teaching or whatever you'd want people to know in the previously on?

[3:01] Tim Howard: Yeah, I mean, I think it's it is interesting to know if you're going to come here because I am a professor there and I teach many of the music theater classes. I'm more of the acting end of it, although I've had a career also as a music director. So, yeah, so I think that what is probably important to know is that I'm in this position because of my extensive professional experience, which was accepted to give me the job. And I'm now full professor. But I yeah, so I started at Baldwin Wallace and I was accepted as both a classical voice major and also a piano major. And so I did that and also acted in shows. And then I moved to Boston and was accepted for a full ride at New England Conservatory in Boston and did about a year there, but had also started working with an acting coach.

And that really was where my heart was. And in a couple of months I got my first equity job and I worked kind of nonstop in Boston. So I thought, well, you know, this is the next step is New York, only three and a half hours away. So I ended up there and I was starting out when I first, you know, started acting and I got my equity card about when I was about 24, I guess. And I had been groomed at Baldwin Wallace to be like the next Alfred Drake or Howard Keel leading man. And so by the time I was like 27 and had my equity card, my hair was pretty much had completely fallen out. And casting directors were like, wow, he's great. We have no idea what to do with him because it was before bald was beautiful.

And so then somebody heard me play the piano at a theater, a regional theater in Boston that I was acting at. And so then they asked me to music direct something and that was successful. And then that led me to having a career as a music director, which led me to having a career as a director up through the beginning of my thirties. And then I figured out like Madonna, I could recreate myself into my own version and then started working all the time. And so through my thirties and into my forties, I was very fortunate to work in both plays and musicals and lots of regional theaters, and then ended up booking Showboat, which I did for three years under Hal Prince's direction, and then Parade again under his direction and with Jason Robert Brown actually conducting the orchestra.

So that was a major highlight for me. And then it kind of just started to transfer into academia, but I still keep my professional career going and I am really focused on new works and I try to take that in. And I actually even have a class, which is a new works class to mirror the 29 hour reading to prepare our BFA upper level music theater students to do that.

[6:01] Charlie Murphy: I love it. I think you're one of the only professors that so far described themselves as Madonna on their journey to school. So I really appreciate that. All right. So let's get into where we're starting to already. So let's get into Western Connecticut and, you know, especially with your previous experience teaching at other places and just, you know, your professional experience seeing students from all over the country. What do you think, you know, sort of makes a Western Connecticut student unique? And again, it doesn't have to be completely unique, but what is the sort of oeuvre of what is a Western Connecticut student in terms of the kind of people that you see on campus?

[6:30] Tim Howard: Yeah. So for the music theater program, my motto for the program is be the best you. So we're not a cookie cutter school. I really think that there's a place for everyone in the business, whether you're a leading man, an ingenue, a character person. So we kind of groom our students that way to kind of get to know them and to really bring that quality that makes them unique out. One of the things that I think the highlight that would be highlights of our program would be number one, location. So we're just a little over an hour from the city. So if a student is interested in getting to the East Coast and getting close to seeing shows and being connected on Broadway, but not feeling totally ready to be in New York City, which I definitely wasn't at 18 years old, then that's an excellent option.

We have this school was kind of chosen as the premier art school in Connecticut. So it got all these grants and we have this fantastic 98 million dollar facility that we get to play in that is for both well for the theater, music and art. But we have two main spaces, our black box and then our main stage, which is both of them are state of the art. So that's fantastic. So the facility, the location and the faculty. So with our faculty, it's kind of an embarrassment of riches. Almost all of us have had significant careers in the Broadway community. And I think because we're close to New York, we can get a lot of also in addition to the full-time adjuncts who have had major careers. So between all of us, we have Tony Awards, Drama Desk, Astaire Awards.

So that the faculty is kind of crazy. I like that calculation. I tried to do that with my wife. Between us, we have a Tony nomination. Between us, we have a Grammy. Just doing the between us gets to like count. That's very helpful to sort of weave it in.

[8:48] Charlie Murphy: Let's talk a little bit about curriculum specifically. So take me through, you know, especially as a BFA MT, though certainly we can hear this in the acting and you can maybe talk a little bit about those two tracks or how they work at your school potentially differently. I'd love to just hear about, like, what would the four years look like freshman, sophomore, junior, senior year in terms of the kind of stuff I'd be studying?

[9:04] Tim Howard: Sure. So, of course, you would have voice for all four years with a private voice teacher, of course. And also, in addition to that, then you also have 10 sessions per semester with a voice coach where you can really run anything you'd like with that with your coach who is a pianist and will help you with that. And so we have the technician and then we also have the coach. That's for all four years. You start out. It's sequenced with the dance and we have Elizabeth Parkinson and Scott Wise and Marianne Lamb all teaching for us. So you start with ballet the first semester, then go to jazz and that's usually Marianne Lamb and then modern and then finally tap with Scott Wise. And then you have two more semesters of combination class where you come in and learn a new combination each class.

And that's meant to actually be audited so that you would have dance for all four years. You would start immediately with acting one. So you're required acting one, acting two, acting three. You have the option of then, in addition, taking Shakespeare, acting for the camera. We have. Yeah, that's an amazing and very popular class. We also we're basically based in Stanislavski as far as our acting technique, but I also use Meissner and we also offer a separate Meissner class to give the students more tools to work with. And then in addition for the music theater program, then you have music theater workshop, advanced music theater workshop. And I teach both of those. That would be freshman, sophomore year.

Then in the junior year, you have seen the song. And then in addition to that, then you would have the new works class, which, again, is near the twenty nine hour reading equity reading. And then you would have audition techniques, which is really just straight acting that I teach as well in the fall of your senior year. And then the culmination of that is in the final final semester is senior showcase and also transition workshop. So a transition workshop, it's basically learning everything you need to know about the business. I cover all the unions, the different kinds of contracts, how to do your taxes as a performing artist, basically. And everyone's required to have a website when they leave as well so that they're completely set up in that final semester.

With that, I bring in different agents and casting directors to work with them. I know a lot of schools have gone that direction for a senior showcase and have had a lot of luck with that. So in the last two years, I implemented that. And that has been very helpful because we do that in addition to the senior showcase in New York City. So I think as our program has really grown, we've gotten an excellent reputation with the agents. And so when I contact them to see if they want to come, it's so much easier for me now because they've seen what we do and they're very interested. And so I would say that usually for our music theater, for the last two to three years, it's been three fourths to seven eighths of our students getting representation.

[13:01] Charlie Murphy: That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. And another example of the advantage of the geography of being close enough, both with professors, but then also with industry representation, not that you can't get those to the middle of the country, but it's a bigger ask to say, fly out here and stay versus come up for the day.

[13:47] Tim Howard: And so we have certain regulations which keeps us at 16 per class. And so that's true with the BFA Music Theatre, but then our new BFA in Acting, BFA in Stage Management, and then also BFA in Design Tech. And we realized that we really needed, because the quality of work that we were doing warranted all BFAs, but we didn't have that until two years ago. So the BFA Acting track is similar, where you would, again, and our MTs and our Straight Acting are in the same class many times. So that same track would happen for Acting 1, Acting 2, Acting 3, Audition Techniques, Senior Showcase as well, and as well as Transition Workshop. But then they would also have Stage Combat that they'd be, that is part of their curriculum.

In addition, they would also have a Dialects class. They are also required to take the Meissner class. So it's a similar track, it's just more specialized. One of the attributes that I did not mention when we were talking about the highlights of the program, which is a major thing, is we are very production-oriented. We do six main stage shows per year. That's three per semester, and every student is required to do Theater 300 for seven semesters. That means that everybody, we don't buy into the star system. That means that you may be the lead in one show, and the next show you may be running the spotlight. But we believe that theater is the most collaborative art form. And so we really want everybody to have a knowledge of what it takes to really put on a show.

Our production standards are extraordinarily high because everyone is required to work on each show. We either bring in a guest director, or it's one of the full-time staff that would direct. But we also hire professional designers as well. When a student is getting to be a place where we feel like they could be a lighting designer, for example, for one of the main stage, we will definitely try to give that opportunity, and we have. And as that program builds, I would imagine that's going to happen more. But we are very, very production-oriented. And we treat it as a department. So that means that I direct musicals. I direct straight plays. I just did Angels in America Part 1 and Part 2. And so there were music theater students in that and BFA acting.

When I did Sweeney Todd, we had some BFA actors in it as well. So we mix and match. You get a full range. It used to be that you were a music theater actor, or you were just a straight actor. And I don't think the business really buys into that very much anymore, and we certainly don't.

[17:00] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, that's well said. You mentioned a little bit about this, but I'd love just to hear in terms of the broader campus life outside of the theater school. What is my campus experience? What is the experience of being on this college? And then also, academically, are there any options, or what are the options outside of the theater school that the MTs and actors might take?

[17:26] Tim Howard: So, yeah, there's a number of things I probably would like to mention. It's a conservatory-esque training within a liberal arts college. So it's 120 credits total, 80 in your major, 40 outside. Now, there are some cognates, like music theater history, I didn't mention. So you can take that music theater history one and music theater history two, and those actually count double dip, and so those count towards your 40 as well. So it means closer to maybe 75% of your classes are going to be musical theater-oriented than the 66%. Yeah, definitely. I would say, yes, 75% to 80%, depending. If you come in with any AP credits, then it's going to be less, and you can take more electives. Currently, we're on a competency-based program. They're looking at maybe changing that, but right now, it's competency-based.

[18:19] Charlie Murphy: Incompetency-based program, or what would be?

[18:25] Tim Howard: Oh, yeah, competency. Now, I said, what would you change it to, to something incompetent?

[18:29] Charlie Murphy: Well, that would be an interesting option. Sure, yeah, wouldn't change away from competence. But no, but how many of your students end up choosing to do a minor, or do something outside of the theater world? Do you get psychology minors? Do you get people who say, I'm going to get a minor in English, or even a double major?

[18:41] Tim Howard: We do have students that minor in something like business or psychology. It really depends on how many AP credits they come in with, because it's a pretty rigid program to get through in four years with that many credits that you have to take. So if someone comes in, and they have a lot of college credits already, then I definitely encourage them to get a minor. So some of them do that as well.

[19:11] Charlie Murphy: Yep. But you also mentioned seven semesters of Theater 300. So I could be in my junior year still writing. I'm still running Lightboard, and not so easy to do my psychology homework while I'm running Lightboard.

[19:21] Tim Howard: Correct. Yeah, we work hard there, and we keep everyone very, very busy. Yeah.

[19:29] Charlie Murphy: You mentioned the showcase in New York. How many of your students end up going straight to New York City versus to other places? Do you notice, especially in the past couple years, you mentioned the reputation growing. Do most of your students end up going, hey, I take that trip an hour down? Do more students go somewhere else? What is that diaspora after?

[19:46] Tim Howard: It's kind of morphed over the time that I've been, because it used to be pretty much a Connecticut school. Now it's nationally known, and we have people from all over the country. So it is definitely, if you are from Connecticut, and you got in as one of the 16 incoming for either one of the programs, then you could possibly take that train in, and still have representation, and still be hitting some of the auditions. I would say the percentage right now, I would say probably about half that move to New York, and others that just say, you know what, I'm going to try to make this work. It's a bit cheaper, and I'm very close, so I can make it to as many auditions as I want. But that's why we're in a rare situation, because we are so close.

But it depends on where someone's from. We have reciprocity, that means for the tuition. So if you're a Connecticut resident, you get obviously a lower, because it's a state school. But they have opened it up, so that New York and New Jersey also get the same benefit of in-state tuition you're talking about.

[20:57] Charlie Murphy: In-state tuition, correct.

[20:59] Tim Howard: Yep, which from our crack research team, it looked like it's about 13,000, is that true, in-state, and about 17,000 out of state. That's before we talk about scholarships. What does that look like from a student perspective, in terms of, if I were a student, I mean it's already lower than a lot of schools are to start, but if I were a student coming in, maybe I'm in New York, and I'm getting that in-state, are there any ways to get that number lower than the 13,000?

[21:24] Tim Howard: Oh yeah, I mean there's a lot, and they've increased, there's a lot of academic scholarships. So if you get honors that has its own scholarship, then there's two to three other higher levels. So there's, if you get the top scholarship, which is the presidential scholarship, that's basically a full ride.

[21:43] Charlie Murphy: And that's an academic scholarship, the presidential.

[21:45] Tim Howard: That's an academic scholarship, yeah. So many of our, because we have a decent amount of scholarships through academic, that is largely our scholarships. But you are correct, when you look at the price for our school compared to others, it's kind of incredible, because the facility is outrageous, and I've been around, and I've seen other facilities, and you know, where they get to play, and so it's kind of bizarre, almost, that you would be able to get this kind of training and be in this kind of facility for the cost, that I don't really know how they do it.

[22:25] Charlie Murphy: I love it. My last question on this subject is, as you're doing those, having those conversations, and you're saying some of those conversations, certainly with agents and managers, become easier as their reputation increases. I'm sure that's true with families too, that you have more students as they're signing on the dotted line of going, hey, I'm getting excited about this school. Why do you choose, I'd love to kind of hear, like why do you hear that students choose to say, yes, I'm going to Western Connecticut, and then if you hear back, are there reasons why you hear someone says, here's the reason I'm going with a different school? Why do they choose your school? And then maybe, are there any reasons why you find they don't choose your school when they're making their final decisions?

[22:59] Tim Howard: Yeah, so I can speak to that a bit. I think that my goal, when anybody makes it through the pre-screen and comes to, you know, hopefully see one of our shows and audition at the same time, I think once they see one of our shows, that's kind of a deciding factor for a lot of our students, because almost all of them say this is the top level of a production that I've seen for any of the schools. When people audition for us, I also, I don't get the mentality of not treating someone with respect when they come to audition for you. And some schools, I think, I hear that a lot, is they went and auditioned and they just did not feel welcomed. And so I always want everyone to walk away wanting to come, whether we have a spot for them or not.

So our students are our strongest advocate for that, and they all volunteer to work audition days. There's a good vibe. And I, you know, I often talk about the attitude and that we are lucky to do theater, but we leave the drama for the stage. And so I think that that is one of the reasons that people come, because they know they're going to be in a very competitive yet supportive environment. In terms of, you know, I think it really depends on what you're looking for. I mean, in a school, one thing I didn't mention was the musicianship class that our chair, Justin Cowan, teaches. And that's a two-semester, and he teaches the best musician class I've seen. And students really come out extraordinarily strong musicians, and many of them don't have those skills before.

[25:50] Charlie Murphy: Your success so far ducking the reasons they would not come to your school. It's okay if you want to duck it, but are there any reasons you hear where they go, you know what? I choose a different direction. I'm talking, I'm trying to think some of the reasons. If you are going, because we are not a music theater-wide program, and because we are heavy acting-based, if you really know that you're like a dancer first, and you know that you just really want to land a job in the chorus of a Broadway show, then maybe you're going to go to a different school that has the emphasis in dance first. Or, you know, so that would be, and it feels weird to say that when I have these Tony Award winners, you know, teaching.

So they're getting amazing training, and there's amazing dancers there. We have a wide range. But again, because I believe in the fact that there's a place for everyone in the business, and because we run the season almost like a regional theater, we want a variety of young artists, actors, and not just a cookie-cutter school.

[25:54] Charlie Murphy: Yep. Well said. Okay. So we're going to take a quick break, and on the back end, we'll talk a little bit more about the audition and admission process. So we'll be right back.

[26:02] Tim Howard: Sounds great.

[26:04] Charlie Murphy: All right. We are back with Tim Howard from Western Connecticut, and I want to talk a little bit about the audition process. So, you know, let's start with maybe those pre-screen videos you mentioned. I'd just love to see, like, as you're culling through pre-screens, as they come in, you know, and you're making those decisions of going, yes, I want to see you for an on-campus audition. We'll get to that in a second, or a regional audition. I'd love to hear about what are you looking for in those pre-screen videos that might lead you ultimately to a yes or a no from that video?

[26:27] Tim Howard: Well, that's a great question. I obviously know from working in the business that you have to have a great voice, but I also know that the acting is ultimately what's going to book the job when you leave WesCon. So I'm definitely looking for someone who has an acting clue, or an it factor, that might be trainable in that way. Obviously, you know, we want them to have a great voice. And then once they make it through the pre-screen, then of course we dance them in the actual audition. But in terms of, again, I'm looking for diversity, big time. That has been my mission. I live in Jackson Heights, New York, which is the most ethnically diverse area in the world.

[27:35] Tim Howard: I have always wanted my program to mirror that and I think as a department we want to mirror that so we're looking for diversity. We're looking for as many different talented actor-singer singer-actors as we can possibly get to really support our program.

[27:55] Charlie Murphy: And about what percentage of those students, we don't mind sharing, like, you know, in terms of you get a certain number of pre-screens and you a certain number of people are gonna get a live audition. Do you have a sense of what that initial cut number is for pre-screens?

[28:11] Tim Howard: Yeah, I would say a little more than half make it through the pre-screen.

[28:19] Charlie Murphy: So it makes sense. And then with that next phase, where are they auditioning? So let's just talk about what the opportunities are between potential on-campus auditions and Unifieds. It looks like you guys traditionally have gone to Chicago and New York at least for...

[28:34] Tim Howard: Yeah, sorry, we have always gone to the Unified in New York. We have many times gone to combined auditions, which is I don't believe happening this year. We've gone to Cap United. We did not go to Cap United this year because of some scheduling issues and this year is actually the first year that we're going to Chicago.

[28:55] Charlie Murphy: Great. Oh, we love it!

[29:02] Tim Howard: Yeah, so this is our first year to go. So I'm very excited about that. But those are basically, yeah, we cover all the biggies pretty much in terms of trying to see people from all across the country.

[29:11] Charlie Murphy: And then how would that work in terms of, are there virtual options too if students aren't able to make one of those Unifieds?

[29:18] Tim Howard: Occasionally, yeah. If there's somebody that has an extraordinary situation where they can't get to campus, then we will honor that. I always let students know that it's just so important to go to where you're interested in studying because you have to make sure that it's the right vibe for you. If you don't actually come to campus and see the amazing facility and see where you'll be on campus and see whether that feels right for you, then we really highly encourage that. But yes, we will do a virtual audition, but they're never quite as successful as an in-person.

[29:55] Charlie Murphy: Totally makes sense. Yeah, so let's talk about that audition in the room now. So I've passed my pre-screen, so there's enough of a talent or a potential it factor that you've seen at that point. You know, when you're in the room then with them, what are you doing to kind of sniff for that it factor to make that ultimate yes decision? What is it more about what they bring in the first time? Is it about the interview? Is it about the potential adjustments you might give them? What is really sort of giving you the most information about students?

[30:26] Tim Howard: Yes, yes, and yes. It's about seeing, you know, as we know, it's become a bit big business with preparing students. Sometimes students come in and they're very well prepared and they're just... I want to see, I'm very, I'm absolutely the most interested in just getting to know them once they're in the room because if you are, you know, everyone is unique and that's what I'm really looking for. Then we can groom you and train you, but you know, what are you giving? And so some people come in very, very prepared and it's what I call an actor Tron and it doesn't allow me to really see and let them come through their material. So that's something that I really work with them on if they do. And listen, I get it.

I mean, I auditioned so much of my life that I know the stress and so I try to make people as comfortable as they possibly can be. The interview is not like an interview of like finding out what they did that got their resume; it's finding out who they are and getting their sense of humor. You know, if we're only taking 16 per incoming class, we're gonna spend a lot of time together and I want to make sure that we vibe and I feel like I can be that person that can make differences in their artistry. I want to get to know them; I want to see what's gonna make them unique and just see the real person. So that's really kind of, you know, kind of what I'm looking for.

[32:14] Tim Howard: You know, we will occasionally, you know, ask for something that wasn't, you know, that might be in their book just to kind of shake it up a bit or I may ask them to do their monologue again, and if I do that, that usually means I'm interested. So that's what students really need to know. It gives them a chance to see what my style is in directing them or coaching them and also lets me see how they can make adjustments and whether they can really take that or what they bring into it. And then on the other hand, there are people that haven't had the luxury of being coached as much, and so that's sometimes when you're really looking for that it factor. Yeah, you can see that it's like, okay, they're making simple mistakes, but those mistakes are just because they just haven't been coached appropriately and coached at all. So you kind of have to be very intuitive, which I think I am, and kind of choose people that way.

[33:38] Charlie Murphy: That's well said. And then as you're making those final yes decisions, you mentioned sort of the importance of diversity to you in terms of just the way you're putting together your classes. You know, what is the ultimate magic of how you're balancing out the talent you're seeing, the human beings that you're seeing, and then you're trying to put together a class of 16? You know, what are all the things that you're thinking about and you're putting this together? And especially, I'd love to hear, knowing you might not yield 100% of your class, how does that work with the first round of yeses? But then also the potential waitlist movement or other people if someone says no to you, then, you know, how things fill those slots? How do you sort of break that down in your 16th?

[34:01] Tim Howard: Yeah, well that has gotten... It's a real... It's like gambling. You're kind of choosing how many people you're going to accept to actually hit that magic number of 16. And as we've grown in reputation and as a result of COVID and Zoom taking over, many more people can now, because of the pre-screens, audition for you, but they're also auditioning for 20 schools. So it's, you know, and they may get 10 other yeses. Yeah, so you obviously put out more yeses than what you can fully accept. And total transparency, this is what every school is doing. And then in addition, I have a waitlist. I don't make that waitlist huge, but anybody that's actually on the waitlist means like I am okay and excited if we could actually offer them a spot. So they would get through if they made it through the pre-screen and I saw them at one of the locations, then it's either they would get an acceptance letter or a waitlist letter or we're sorry, but we don't have a spot for you.

[35:08] Charlie Murphy: How do you factor in your perception of their interest to that decision? Like, you know, of course, we know all the factors in different ways they may weigh in terms of what would make you interested in them. But is it a factor for you when someone's on a waitlist or even before the waitlist moment of going, "Hey, this person seemed really interested in us. We think we might get a yes back." How do you sort of weigh that or do you weigh that at all in those acceptances?

[35:30] Tim Howard: Oh yeah, I definitely do. And I'll also look at where they offered scholarships, where they offered, you know, one presidential scholarship because it informs me, number one, okay, that's gonna be a pretty sweet deal for the student. And number two, you know, if they've got talent and they are that intelligent and that hard worker to become, you know, a scholarship winner, academic scholarship winner, that means that they're probably going to be more successful. What we do is offer for anybody that was accepted or waitlisted for them to come and do a shadow day. And most actually take advantage of that once they've had an acceptance. And so we arrange for them to shadow for a full day one of the students so they get to see a variety of classes and voice lessons, dance classes, and kind of see what the vibe is and talk to the students and see if they can imagine themselves there. They also meet with me. I chat them up and kind of try to answer any questions that might still be there for them.

[36:40] Tim Howard: Yeah, that's really the process. For the students that I really feel like it's a good fit instinctually, but I also try to be a little bit more open-minded for the students that I really feel like it's a good fit instinctually. Then, of course, I'm gonna try to pursue them a bit more and, you know, see how else we can just get them there.

[37:00] Charlie Murphy: And you mentioned looking at the, did they receive the presidential scholarship in terms of the academic side of things? Is there any other interaction that you have with the academic side of it? Do you read their essays? Do you look at their grades and SATs directly? How does it work in terms of their barrier to entry from an academic perspective and then how that factors in for you guys artistically?

[37:17] Tim Howard: Yeah, I have a great relationship with admissions and so I will pick up the phone if I have a question about somebody, but they immediately, once I've given the list of the people that we're accepting and waitlisting, then they will get immediately to me the scholarships that have been awarded to those students so that I see where they are and, you know, whether that's going to be a sweet deal for them. But I don't, as far as like an essay and things like that, I'll see what their GPA is and, you know, their scores because that comes out on the chart when they provide that information with scholarships. But in terms of an essay, no, I kind of replace that with the in-person.

[38:04] Charlie Murphy: Totally makes sense. All right. Well, we have a little bit of time to do some bonus questions, so I'm going to do at least one bonus question on you and then we'll see where it goes. But I'd love to talk a little bit about, you know, your journey from actor to director. I think that's something that people are really, a lot of people are interested in. You know, I just had a question last night at a workshop going, "I'm someone who wants to act and then ultimately direct." They're kind of already planning a 20 years from now, I'll be wanting to transition into that. I just love to hear how did that happen for you in terms of, you know, not having formal quote-unquote directing training, you know, necessarily, which a lot of people don't. You know, you're working on a Broadway tour.

How do you then, I think you're eventually gonna work with one of the directors that you worked with, I think, did I say that correctly? So how does that work in terms of your transition and how that worked?

[38:49] Tim Howard: That's a great question. So my first major thing that I directed was in Boston and I directed a production of Hair. It was the 20th anniversary at that point, and so I kind of wanted to make it our own. And there was a song that was done. They did a concert down at the UN of Hair songs and it was like a variety of stars like Bea Arthur singing "Black Boys" and so forth. There was a song that I wanted from that about the homeless that I thought would work really nicely in our production of Hair. I think I was like 29 or 30 years old and I just, you know, had crazy courage and I contacted the writers and said, "Hey, I'd love to use this song in this production I'm directing." I sent it to their agent and the next day, I got a call from Jerome Ragni and he said, "I understand you want to use this song."

He was like, "Well, you can't because it's for another show, but tell me about the show." And so, you know, so I did and I told him my ideas and he liked them and so they got involved. They pulled some of the script from the original show down at the Public and so they ultimately, it became the 20th anniversary production, revised version of the script, and some of those revisions are actually in the Tams with Mark. You rent it out. So that was the first major thing, but then when my acting career kind of really retook off in my 30s, your Madonna phase is here. I again was very fortunate to work with Hal Prince. And so Hal actually became my mentor and I learned so much about directing from him.

I know that particularly during Parade, when we got into tech, when you're, you know, as an actor, you're supposed to be in the dressing room just waiting to be called on, and I would sneak out into the house to see how he was working with the lighting designer and the set designer. At first, he kind of glared at me like, "What are you doing out there?" I was kind of scared, and then he kind of caught on that I was actually just observing him.

[41:23] Tim Howard: And he kind of started to perform for me. And so at that point, then, you know, he was a really amazing resource for me to kind of help mentor me in my directing career. And so I was very fortunate to have had that experience. And that really influenced my directing a lot.

[41:44] Charlie Murphy: Did you do any official assisting, like we're doing any assisting directing? Or was it more just I'm observing while I'm acting?

[41:49] Tim Howard: No, it was just a lot of conversations. And it was me just observing pretty much because I was already acting in the shows. So I couldn't really.

[42:01] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, as you're trying to do more directing, because I think there's a lot of mystery for actors, especially to be like, but then how do I like, go get directing jobs? Like, how did you then get your name out there? How did you, you know, once you've done a couple productions, it's easy to be like, well, someone saw your production. But how do you sort of start off going? Hey, come? I'd be interested in directing the show. How do you sort of make those reach outs for yourself?

[42:23] Tim Howard: Well, I know that when young artists who are actors or have an interest in directing, you know, I highly encourage them to go and really have their acting career first, and really learn their craft and really learn the collaborative process. I think unless you're going to go to a school and a master's program to just get your directing degree, then I think you really need to just learn your craft more so that you can really be an actor's director.

[43:02] Charlie Murphy: What was the original question?

[43:03] Tim Howard: How did you actually? How did you? How did you, you're not 29 years old, you're directing this production in Boston? How did that happen to me?

[43:10] Tim Howard: Happened because of my, you know, it just went from acting to then music directing, and then, hey, we think you could direct and then I did. And then I just started submitting my stuff. And I had a lot of success. I mean, we were involved for many years when it was really hot with the Kennedy Center American College Theater Festival. In my first year at Western, they asked me if I would direct Parade when I was like, okay, that would be exciting. And so I did. And for I think the first three years I was there, we won top honors with Kennedy Center for those that I did, Drowsy Chaperone, Parade, and Evita. And they flew me and my leads down to Kennedy Center in DC. And so that helped. And, you know, I also was nominated for a Berkshire Theater Award for my directing for Big River.

And so these awards and things like that, it kind of just one thing leads to another and, you know, but, you know, you got to hustle. Yeah, that's the thing. It's just important, whether it's acting, directing, whatever it is. There are jobs out there, someone has to get them. So it might as well be you is what I always say to my students, but you're not going to get a job unless you show up, they're not going to come to you, they're not going to come knocking on your door if you're not out there hustling for them.

[44:38] Charlie Murphy: It's so true. No, no. Good. Okay.

[44:40] Tim Howard: One thing that I didn't mention that I really wanted to, we have a connection, and actually a partnership with several of the top equity theaters in that area. So we've had for about six years now, a kind of an unofficial partnership with ACT, which is built and it's only about 15-20 minutes away. So they hire a lot of our students. But more importantly, now we've become connected with Goodspeed Opera. Yep. And so they hire, they come and audition us because they heard about us. And so for the last three years, they have hired 10 to 15 of our students for their new works festival. And so that's kind of a built-in and a huge stepping stone for a lot of our students. Because that's kind of the premier music theater theater in the country.

[45:31] Charlie Murphy: I love it. So there's always so exciting when you have this kind of regional connections and the specific in this what a help at 18 when you're 19 or 20 when you're starting to start enough.

[45:41] Tim Howard: It's great. I'd love to wrap with just a little bit. We've given a bunch of advice to the students in the process. I'd love to wrap up a little advice for the parents. Many of our listeners, of course, are parents who are listening for their children. And so just from your experience, guiding families through this process and talking to parents, you know, what advice do you have for them in terms of how they can help support their child through this crazy process? You mentioned 20 schools and stuff that they, so many of them are doing? What advice do we have to those parents in terms of how they could best support their kids?

[46:11] Tim Howard: That's a great question. I mean, I think that it's really, I think it's really difficult. I mean, I have a goddaughter that went through this process a couple years ago. And I see it and I'm actually more empathetic to the students and the parents now, because of going having gone through that experience with her. But the main thing that I often say to the parents who are worried about their child going into theater and getting a BFA, what are they going to do with it? It's a very hard business. And indeed it is. But what I say to the parents is that really, just supporting them is the most important thing. Because if a student, if someone wants to do this for the rest of their life, you have to follow your dreams.

You know, I was a person that came from a town of 2300 in Ohio. And it was a crazy dream that I had. But I knew that I had to get out. So I needed to work really hard so that I would be skilled enough to do that. And so I tell the parents that really just support them. Because a BFA does not mean that if you choose not to pursue the acting, you still have learned incredible discipline, and time management, and people skills, so that you are actually very hireable, no matter even if you're not going to do that. And because we require our students to take tech one and costume tech and all of that, they've got skills. So sometimes a student ends up being, you know, a designer or a dresser on Broadway.

We have a lot of connections with costumers. And, you know, our costumer, Joni Lerner, you know, still paints all the silks for Lion King. And so she hooks a lot of our students as well. So I think that the most important thing for the parents is to just support the student, the child, and know that there will be a place. And it's not going to do any good to not support them on this. Because you can't tell a dog that he's not a dog. It's like you are what you are. And we're kind of if this career chooses you, it just did.

[48:35] Charlie Murphy: So true, cannot go wrong with a little bit of support. And I like that idea of you, it won't do any good to not support them, it won't actually help them necessarily.

[48:41] Tim Howard: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I love it. All right. Well, Tim, I really appreciate the time today. I know we got to get you out of here. So thanks for this chat. If people want more information, where should they check out more? Do you like them going to Instagram? You like them going to the website? You like them emailing you? What's the best way for people to hear more?

[48:59] Tim Howard: Yeah, they'll just, if you just Google, we have a lot of media on Instagram and Facebook. And of course, they can always email me at howardt@wcsu.edu. But also, if you go to the website, you'll get a lot of information, you'll see a lot of production photos and some videos as well. But our website's really, we have a professional person who comes in and films all of our productions. And so they look fantastic. And the students get to have those for their reel at the end. And you get to see prior, the kind of work that's going on as well. Really? So all of those are options to kind of get to know us better.

[49:51] Charlie Murphy: I love it. All right. Well, Tim, thanks for the time today. I really appreciate it, man.

[49:54] Tim Howard: Thank you so much.

[50:00] Charlie Murphy: Yes, yes, yes. Really enjoyed talking to Tim. I'm gonna keep this takeaway short, all short takeaways in 2025. And of course, that's not true. And really, this is the last of 2024. Because I'm recording this in 2024. But maybe I've just got a little senioritis before I head off for the holidays. I did hope you caught Tim's mention of the Goodspeed. I've said it before, but really to check out that idea of any kind of regional connection a school has and how they can be really cool differentiators for a program. Definitely not something that's a prerequisite at any great program. There's plenty of great programs that don't have particular pipelines to other regional options. But I think it can be a really nice perk, right?

It can really vary from program to program in terms of how those connections work. Is it an official pipeline, like where you're coming up to school, and they're auditioning those kids, or they're guaranteeing those kids get a certain number of roles? Or is it an unofficial one, which also can be really cool as well, and can be so different? And how does it work? How do they work with classes? Do they help you schedule the round classes or not? You know, is it a part of the curriculum that actually gets you college credit? That can be cool. It's all these different ways that it can work. But it's just always worth noting, tell me more about that regional connection. To me, those can be interesting differentiators that are just a bit different than some of the other things that can make one BFA program different from another.

I also really liked the conversation about transferable skills, especially this idea of transferable skills specifically within the industry. You know, it's funny, that might be a pretty obvious thought to most people. And we've certainly talked about how people can end up in different parts of the industry. But it's not something we've necessarily talked about explicitly this idea of like, the skills themselves that you learn as an actor will help you in other jobs in this industry. You know, we often talk about how like, increased communication ability and storytelling, all that kind of stuff that can make you an awesome lawyer or a great entrepreneur, or many other things outside of the industry.

But I think it does bear actually saying that the most common transferable skill is to one within the industry, or at least somewhat correlated, right? I certainly am an example of that as both a teacher and someone who runs a company. My theater training has helped me toward the non-artistic parts of my current job, but also very directly and maybe very obviously, as I speak about art into a podcast microphone with the artistic parts of it, right? And that's true with so many aspects of the business too, right? Most of the casting directors and agents and directors and so many of these other hyphens started out as performers first, and the skills that they acquired as an actor, it may help them with what we call those transferable skills in the non-artistic parts of it.

But of course, their direct expertise into what acting is also gives them a real leg up from the other side of the table. If you can be a director or a casting director who knows what it's like to be an actor in a real way, that directly makes you better at those jobs, you know? And it's a bit less direct for some other aspects that, you know, go behind the scenes, whether it's wardrobe or those kind of things, but it's still helpful across the board to someone who understands the process of theater both holistically and granularly, which is often the case of most good actors, right? Most great producers have known what it is to be on stage, even if they didn't end up pursuing acting professionally.

But so, I just think it's worth saying that out loud, that when we talk about transferable skills from a larger career perspective of how great a BFA can be in becoming a nurse, it's also really helpful in those smaller mini pivots within the industry. You know, sometimes you look at these daunting numbers of how many people become successful professional actors or something like that. How many are actively using their degree? Meaning, are you making a living specifically as a performer? And I always want to push back on that because I've seen these actual narratives both within and without of the industry of people that I know who've gone to the school, right? That's so many people that I know are radically successful and happy in their professional lives who would be counted in the negative part of those numbers.

And yes, of course, that's true for the big pivots that we talked about. You know, the lawyers and the doctors and those kind of things. But it is also true for those smaller ones, right? I can think about with my classmates. I just watched one of them in one of the biggest Netflix holiday movies out there. So, shout out to Ian Harding, a former podcast guest. He's in this huge Netflix movie doing great, right? But then I saw another schoolmate just the other day who's working for the LA Times and he interviews celebrities as a video producer. So, there's all these like wonderful like social media clips of him interviewing all these amazing people, right? Now, he wouldn't be counted in the pool of successful professional actors because he's not technically acting while he's on camera but he's obviously crushing in his career with the LA Times like an award-winning video producer, right?

And his skill set as an actor, of course, bears fruit as he banters with Kate Winslet or Timothee Chalamet or all these amazing people that he's chatting with. It's very evident that this person has the skills of an actor and it's directly applicable for him, right? So, it's not just when we talk about those big transfers but even within those little mini transfers, those skills are very helpful too.

[54:36] Charlie Murphy: Okay, that is it. Another episode of Mapping the College Edition and an actual short takeaway. We've done it. Check us out on social media, like and subscribe wherever you can do so and head over to mtca.com to check out information on how MTCA can help you with your individual college preparation needs. To my young artists out there mapping their journeys, happy, happy new year. We'll catch you in 2025.