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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping the College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got the Greenway Family. That's Holly, Andrew, Jane. It's our first full alumni family, though I guess they have brothers and sisters on the pod, but the first threesome, at least, of an alumni parent and student. We have had parents on the pod together. We've had students, certainly alumni students on the pod, but here's a whole family to talk it through together. And in a few weeks, we've got a great mom-daughter duo just to talk through all the different angles, different aspects of it, different combinations, etc. I've really appreciated the positive feedback we've gotten with these BTDT episodes.

So we're going to keep this series going until you tell me not to. We'll just keep sprinkling them in there. Of course, I'm not going to do all these episodes. We're still going to have our fancy artist guests on for the artist explorations. But I know that Frolic episode got a lot of really nice reviews from different people. So we're going to keep these little mini-series at different times like this. And as always, if you like this, if you don't like this, if you want to give us some of that feedback, you know, if it's private feedback and you're feeling a bit shy, of course, you could feel free to email us at mailbag at mappingthecollegeedition.com. That's mailbag at mappingthecollegeedition.com. Or if you feel comfortable shouting it to the rooftops, if you feel like a brave little boy, throw it into a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Instagram, wherever you happen to catch our content.

And we do have some pretty exciting content coming up. Next week, we have a College Deep Dive episode on Juilliard. We've been trying to book them for a long time. Very happy to have Juilliard represented on the pod. And then in a few weeks, we're going to be heading to Pittsburgh Unified to air our favorite Speed Dating pod that we'll be doing there. Those were really popular episodes last year. It was one episode last year. It's probably two episodes this year, I'll say, where you're going to get to meet a bunch of schools in rapid succession. Some of those schools will be old friends that you've heard longer episodes of before that you heard last year on the pod, but a lot of new people too.

I do think it would be a great way for those of you who don't have time to listen to a bunch of 45-minute episodes just to cram for the test that you haven't been prepping for. So lots of exciting stuff all around. I hope all you seniors are crushing it with your pre-screen seasons and that you've all made a plan for a mock audition. We just had another great one happen on Sunday, and we're really looking forward to an exciting season of mocks this year in New York City, LA, and Chicago, as well as online. We also got fall masterclasses happening in person, online. We've got a private audition weekend coming up only a few months away, individual private auditions. It's all happening. So I hope you're all loving your beginnings to fall and that you enjoy this conversation with the Greenway family.

[3:09] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to welcome on the pod the Greenway family. We've got Andrew Greenway, Holly Maclay, and Jane Greenway. Andrew has a BA from the University of Texas, a BA in Drama, as well as a BSN and MSN from Dominican College and Norwich University. Holly has a BSN from West Virginia University, the Wendatna Ballet Scholarship. We're going to talk about the arts of both Jane's parents, and then an MA in Nursing Education and an MS from Dominican Graduate School and NYU. I may have gotten those exactly not perfect, but we'll do our best. They're both working in the healthcare field, having come from the artist's world of it all. And then Jane here is our wonderful MTCA alumni. This is why we're principally here, who's recently committed to Indiana University after having gone through this process twice.

So that's one of the things I think we're really excited to... The two big things that you guys are offering us in a unique perspective from this episode is this is our first with three, with two parents and a kid. So we're excited to hear about that collaboration. And the first time that at least as an alumni, an MTCA alumni, we've had someone who've done the process twice. I may be wrong about that, but at least that I know of, this is the first time at least we're going to highlight this experience. And certainly a very common experience that many of our MTCA students consider. So we want to talk about all that. Okay. But is there anything... We were talking a little bit in the pre-show. Is there anything that you guys would want to add in terms of narrative versions of your bios or narrative versions of your stories before we dump into Jane's process?

I want to toss it to you, Andrew and Holly. Anything that you'd want to add in terms of your journey to this experience and to Jane applying? And then I'll give Jane the same opportunity there. But anything you want to add in for you? I mean, it's been an interesting process to go through this twice with Jane. It's not something to be taken lightly, certainly. We both have, as we indicated from my resumes, artistic backgrounds and our own experiences specifically with kind of interfacing with the whole performing arts world. And we felt like we were attempting to be good advocates for Jane as an 18-year-old and then as a 19-year-old to navigate through this potentially very kind of, it's tough.

It's a tough process. And to balance her dreams and support her with a measure of responsibility of being, you know, a patron, developing this whole process of being, you know, her own patron in a way of the arts. And we are very proud of the resilience that she's shown, particularly, you know, going through this twice. And I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot for these kids to do this. It's a lot. Holly, is there anything you want to get in there before I throw it to Jane?

[6:01] Holly Maclay: Yeah, I just want to say too that we both have, as adults, all through our adult life, even though we've been on a, you know, had rich and large nursing careers, we've still managed to stay involved both in dance and the arts and community theater and dancing here locally. And yeah, part of that. I mean, we talk about that now with many thousands of MTC alumni, knowing that the majority of them will not spend 40 years as professional actors. That's realistically, but that it can still be a huge part of your life. I didn't become a professional baseball player, but I play softball twice a week. I love it. It's still part of my life, even though it's not, you know, the thing that I'm making money doing.

[6:40] Charlie Murphy: Okay. We've waited too long to toss it to Jane. Jane, the only thing I want to throw to you before I let you really give your perspective on this, I want to relieve you of the need to encapsulate the fullness of all possible different considerations for people who are doing this twice, and only need to speak toward your own experience, just because I know it is such a big, we're going to treat that decision with the weight of what it is of going, do I want to go through this process again, and all the different considerations. You only have to speak from your perspective and sort of what your experience was and why you, you made the decisions you made and how you did it the way you did it. And I'd love, we're going to go like forward and backward, but I'd love to kind of, if I can zero you in and start you at the point, basically at the end of last year, as you're now thinking about, maybe I want to go through this process twice.

Can you just talk to me about where you were then, what you were sort of experiencing, what made you think, Hey, I think I might try this again. I might not. I just love to kind of get into your, if you can take me back a year, get into your mindset of where you were as you first started thinking about it. Maybe it wasn't exactly end of your last year, maybe you waited a little bit, but what, what was that experience of when you thought, Hey, maybe I think I want to do this again.

[7:49] Jane Greenway: Yeah. So I, at the end of last year, I really didn't get into like a lot of schools or like schools. I felt like a lot of people got into more schools or like schools that they were really excited about. I was like, you know what, I'll pick the best one on this list and go to that one. And I was like, okay, I guess we're going to go here. And I quickly learned when I was there that like, oh, maybe this isn't the place for me because just of the curriculum and like the, even like the location a little bit. And are we allowed to say the location being in New York city? Are we being secretive about which school it's up to you? You get to choose how much you want to share of your process. You went to Marymount, right?

So both, you know, of course it's not encapsulating all of what is good or not good about Marymount, but for you and the fit, both location. And then also other considerations of the school felt like it wasn't necessarily the best fit. It felt like, did you make that decision? You think based on, Hey, this is the best reputation of a school that I got into.

[8:44] Jane Greenway: Yeah. And also I was like, I was excited to live in New York city. Like there were certain parts about living in New York city. Those are different from going to school in New York city. And I think I could have thought about that more. So is it more in the fall when you arrived that you realize, Hey, this maybe isn't for me? Or did you think that a little bit at the end of the process, at the end of the process where you're like, Hey, I'm going to Marymount and I'm going to be okay. Or were you more already thinking, I might want to do this again. I'm not sure if I, I completed it the way I wanted to do it.

[9:09] Jane Greenway: I kind of like, I finished it and I was like, okay, I guess we're going to Marymount. But there was a part of me that was like, I feel like there's something better. Like I had, like, I feel like I knew, like I knew that they're like, this would happen again for you. You didn't feel that completeness of like, I found my fit. I mean, it was right for me.

[9:29] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. All right. So then Andrew and Holly, how does that really all three of you, how does that conversation begin? And how does that land on you as you hear, Oh my gosh, we did this whole process. She got into a school. She's at school. We're going to do this whole darn thing again. How's that going to, so how does that conversation begin among the three of you?

[9:42] Andrew Greenway: Um, so Jane was, I mean, I thought, you know, her lack of complete enthusiasm at the beginning of the semester was due to just, you know, a lot of adjustment to being a new college student. And when she did audition for the year before for Marymount, she was excited about the school and had a good experience at the audition and, you know, seemed like that would be a good fit for her. And she'd done a, an intensive there, but then as the semester went on and she seemed to not really be any happier or enthusiastic about the curriculum and her teachers. And, you know, I think it's kind of settled in academically on some level, but just wasn't artistically getting what she was wanting and was mourning the loss of what she had in high school. That's when I, we kind of realized, well, okay, let's then, if you're going to transfer, we have to reach out to MTCA and see what that process is.

[10:59] Charlie Murphy: I love it. And I want to let everyone get in here too, in terms of more of the pros and cons of this process. Again, just to say though, this is not a criticism of this, how everyone feels about Marymount or that there's a, that this is not nothing negative about this program in terms of a larger scale of it all. I also think what Holly just identified there of, huh, this feels like maybe this is something that everybody experiences when they go to college. I mean, I would just say in the journey of the decision tree that we're about to talk through, many students do feel a little discomfort and then decide, let me give it another month. Let me ride it out. Maybe this is me. I haven't made friends yet, but I will, like some of those things, we do experience that a lot and students then choose to stay in school too.

So it's not that every time the fit isn't immediately perfect that we go, hey, re-audition, let's, let's try this whole thing again. So, but so talk me through that as you're starting to realize, hey, this does feel like it wants to happen. Jay and Andrew, what were you thinking in terms of weighing the pros and cons and what ultimately made you decide, all right, we are, we're going to do this. We're going for, for the whole round again.

[11:55] Andrew Greenway: One of the things that concerned me as part of my nursing duties, I was a tutor to medical students at an Ivy league medical thing that was hard, really hard to get into. Although I would argue that getting into some of these musical theater programs is just, it's probably not 1%, 2% some of these schools. And I would talk to these medical students and interns who had worked so desperately hard to get into this and a large proportion of them went, wow, maybe this isn't for me. You know, and they felt they were so far into this. And I kept hearing echoes of that from Jane and being able to navigate through a young person's potential.

[12:31] Charlie Murphy: Of course, it was like Snapchat and Instagram, but then it would also be like, I like went, this was one of my closest friends and I would like text her and be like, how's school? Yeah, and I would just go to people, yeah. I love that, and I love that, you know, Andrew Nathan named it with that Ivy League comparison of like, something can be objectively sought after. There can be other people who want, go, God, what is she complaining about? I wanted to come to Marymount and I didn't get in. That can be true and it could still not be for you. I mean, it could be, we see this romantic relationships that go, this person's so great, but maybe they're not great for me. It might not be the fit for me.

Okay, so that really helpful. And we'll probably talk a little bit more about some of the doing it again, certainly how it happened, and maybe even some more of the decision making behind it. But let's step now back a little bit, maybe a bit kind of back and forward. I wanna talk about the divvying between the three of you in terms of like the responsibilities of the process. I think that's one of the things that's really helpful from our alumni parents. Oh, it's helpful to hear how different families broke up the responsibility. What did Jane do? What did Andrew do? What did Holly do? And if it's different in version 1.0 and 2.0, I'd love to hear toward that too. But what, you know, did you take more on Jane in the second version or et cetera? But maybe let's start with the 1.0 of divvying and then the adjustments if there were any to 2.0. How did the three of you divvy these responsibilities up, the buckets as it were?

[15:54] Holly Greenway: Um, so I can speak to that. I was kind of the CEO. Yeah, so in both versions, I primarily, well, 2.0 is very different as with my end of responsibilities than it was the first time. So all the college applications and creating the, you know, the grid with all the different schools and websites and audition requirements and all that, I took a lot of, most of that on. Yep. And then when Jane was in high school though, the actual college application process was very, it was very much facilitated by the school counselors and, you know, they have all those automated systems that pull in all the letters and the transcripts and all that stuff that the schools need and then they put them on the common app and all that. Second time around, I had to do a lot of that.

[17:00] Charlie Murphy: You're being more counselor, guidance counselor.

[17:02] Holly Greenway: Yes, I was the guidance counselor and that included manually getting transcripts from both Marymount and her high school and going on these websites and requesting them and then having to go back to the school's website and see what the, you know, exact email was to send it to and all that stuff. So that was actually a lot more work the second time around. Fortunately, we had experience with what, you know, Jane took more of that on this time around, what the pre-screen requirements were and setting up, you know, she did all the artistic stuff. Yes. Well, sort of as a baseline assumption, the students should do all the artistic stuff. I mean, certainly through the artistic work, how much stuff like looking up requirements sometimes.

Yeah, she did a lot more of that the second time around. Because the first time around, we were all new to it and it was so overwhelming and I think she applied to a lot more schools the first time around. The second time around, we limited the list.

[18:04] Jane Greenway: With the plan, in the second time around, the plan was if we don't get in, we'll stay at Marymount? We don't get into a school that we like better?

[18:11] Holly Greenway: That was mine.

[18:12] Jane Greenway: Yeah.

[18:13] Charlie Murphy: Was that your plan, Jane?

[18:14] Jane Greenway: The plan was first, I think. And so I only really applied, I think, to like 10 schools this time. Or like, yeah, it was around that number. And, but I like, my number did get limited though because of like essay requirements. Like we didn't have time to be writing a million more essays. Like it was, let's do essays from last year and-

[18:35] Holly Greenway: Yeah, we kind of like that, last year's essays.

[18:39] Jane Greenway: Yeah, so save all your stuff. That's my advice.

[18:42] Charlie Murphy: That's a good point. But that was the plan for you or not, Jane, in terms of if I didn't, because 10, of course, would be small if you didn't have any yeses from that. Sounds like you picked 10 that you go, I think I feel confident I would leave school for these 10. And if not, was the safety backup option, hey, I'm gonna stay in school?

[18:57] Jane Greenway: I think at the beginning, yes. But then later on, as like the year went on and later on, like second semester even, I was like, if I don't get in, I don't know what I'll do.

[19:08] Charlie Murphy: What would you do? Are you touring the country on a bus? What's happening?

[19:12] Jane Greenway: I don't know. I was like, it would be really hard for me to have stayed there, I think. I think it would have made it work, because like, you can always make it work, but I don't know.

[19:26] Andrew Greenway: In the divvying of it all, was there any buckets that were a little more, were you looking more at the strategic? Were you looking more at the psychological? Were you more, I'm in the backseat and I'm financial support? What was sort of your feeling in terms of how you were thinking?

[19:41] Andrew Greenway: I was like the emotional hostage negotiator. We lived in breakfast. You know?

[19:46] Charlie Murphy: He was.

[19:47] Holly Greenway: Between the two of you?

[19:48] Andrew Greenway: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, we live outside of New York City, so I would go into the city, Jane and I would have lunch.

[19:57] Holly Greenway: Yeah, he was the driver, too.

[19:59] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, I was, I was. Definitely. The chauffeur. I'd drive everybody around. I only went to one school with her by myself, and, you know, I'm a person that was an, I think actors and dancers can be the same, and I think they can be different, and you know, I had, you know, I had a relationship to rejection acting-wise. It's tough. And I think Holly's so practical and so adept at navigating through this.

[20:30] Holly Greenway: Logistics.

[20:30] Andrew Greenway: It was kind of a weird kind of gender bend that I was more, when now that Jane's going away, her old high school music teacher's like, is your dad gonna be okay?

[20:41] Holly Greenway: Oh, yeah.

[20:43] Andrew Greenway: You know, it's that whole thing. And yeah, no, we both have specific relationships with Jane that blend over, but I was the emotional, not completely, but.

[20:54] Holly Greenway: And so then mom got to be more of the hard-ass of like, let's get this done, we need to be whatever, and then you could go, tell me about what your terrible mother is asking you to do. I can't believe she's supporting your dream in this way.

[21:03] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, that's very nice. I like that role. It's important for us to keep the channels open because it can seem like one parent is sabotaging the other in order to feel supportive yet hold to a line.

[21:14] Holly Greenway: Yes.

[21:15] Andrew Greenway: So it wasn't tough on our relationship, but we had to be very conscious to be really clear about what it was. But meaning, I think that's what some of what I'm hoping to name and help future parents, that you have a specific relationship with Jane, but also you're saying the communication between each other, of going, hey, this is where she is. You know, I think we need to give her a week off. I think this is too much. It may be a little bit in both processes. That's very normal in this process that everybody's gonna get stressed. Everybody's gonna pick up each other's stress and it's gonna cause spiraling stress of, now mom's mad at me and I'm just worried for you. And that sort of becomes its own thing.

[21:45] Charlie Murphy: Go get in there, Holly, please, yeah.

[21:46] Holly Greenway: And 2.0 is different because she knows more about it than we do. She's lived it, we haven't. So she had a perspective that we had to respect because she was in it and we weren't.

[21:56] Charlie Murphy: Well, and Jane, and I'll open this to everyone, but Jane, especially, were there other things, we've mentioned some of the things that were easier in the second, harder in the second round of like the guidance counselor stuff. Was there other stuff that you felt was much easier the second round or anything artistically that was actually harder the second time where you're like, when I didn't know what I didn't know, it was easy, but now it's like stressful because I know what's coming. So how did you approach it in the 2.0 at all?

[22:16] Jane Greenway: I feel like it was easier. It was a lot more, I feel like I just knew what I was doing more and like my coaches both times were so amazing. And my coaches the second time, I was seeing them a lot more. And because my schedule at school was, I didn't have class sometimes at like 1 p.m. So I was able to like have a lot more coaching and I could see like, I was seeing my monologue coach, I think twice a week during pre-screens and like my song coach once a week. And we got, like I filmed my dance pre-screen in I think four sessions because we just banged it out. And I think I just had to be like, okay, we have to get this done and we got it done. And they like kept pushing me to do it.

[22:58] Charlie Murphy: I love that in the scheduling of it all. I mean, not everybody's necessarily works better in the morning or the afternoon or the evening, those kind of things. But so many of our high school students when they're doing this, they're doing the work after a day of school and exhaustion and homework. And there's something nice about when it's at 1 p.m., this is scheduled and prioritized in your day as like part of your work day, not like a secondary extra thing. We always talk about that with now the sort of larger MTCA leadership staff where I was like, are we prioritizing in our schedule the things that we think are our priorities? And it's really hard when you're in high school because high school just is naturally the priority.

It is holding so much space in your schedule that it's harder to do that. It's cool to hear, even if it's only, hey, I'm grabbing this lunch break, but I'm going, this is becoming my, it's a big part of the middle of my day is doing this.

[23:42] Charlie Murphy: I like that a lot. What about, was there anything that was harder for you in the second time around? Anything that was more, whether it's scheduling, whether it's, you know, sometimes people talk about the auditions of it all, almost knowing it makes it harder. But that may be, I think more often with people who are not, who didn't stay in school, right? Some people, when they take the gap year, they can almost feel out of the rhythm of it. And then they're like, oh God, getting back into it and stuff. But was there anything that you felt like was harder around too?

[24:06] Jane Greenway: Yeah, definitely. I think having to be in college and do this again is like, it's a lot. Cause I had more work. I had more like of a different, I had like a whole different life and not like, and I also had to like kind of keep it a secret when I was at college. Like some of my friends knew, but like really like not a lot of people knew.

[24:25] Charlie Murphy: And did you feel that isolation from them the ones you know are staying while you're sort of not betraying them, but you feel like I'm abandoning you, I hope. But even to the point of what you're saying, like, I don't know if I could have stayed at that point. Was that an emotional experience of like, I feel isolated from the people around me?

[24:41] Jane Greenway: Yeah, definitely. And also like when I would go, when I went to my first audition and like my first mock, like a part of me did feel like kind of like shameful, like, oh, I have to do like, I'm older than everybody in this room. And like-

[24:54] Charlie Murphy: It's only one year, but yeah.

[24:55] Jane Greenway: Yeah, and I like, I told my song coach about that and he was like, Jade, like, that's ridiculous.

[25:03] Charlie Murphy: It feels ridiculous to old people because we're like, it's one year. What's it? But like, I know at 19, 19 and 18 feels very different. Even though, of course, you'll see it at school, a lot of there will be 19 year olds who just took a gap year, but just started high school late. What I mean, the idea of 18 and 19 is not, you will not feel much older than your classmates, as you know. Did you consider a gap year? I guess it was maybe because of the timing was a little late for that in terms of, you know, what the idea of how difficult it can be to be in college while doing it. Was there any consideration of do I actually not finish the semester? Do I not finish the year? Or was that from a family perspective? Like, hey, we paid for this semester, you are going to college.

[25:40] Holly Greenway: I yeah, they, they let me do that.

[25:45] Charlie Murphy: I like it. What about, you know, were there any in a, for any of you Holly and Andrew too, but any big takeaways, big wins and losses from the process twice, like anything that as you think about, because now you have two data points, or two sets of data points, I should say, things that you go, I did this both times, this was absolutely it, or I made a change. And this was a big improvement, or both times I did this, and I wish I didn't like any big wins and losses that now having gone through the process that you would say, you know, we think about sort of advice wise to other people, any big things that you're thinking about there?

[26:17] Andrew Greenway: I think some big, well, the differences were that the second time around Jane was, even though, yeah, she was much more mature, the second time around, as far as sure he knew how to navigate New York City, made all her own appointments with all her coaches reserved her own spaces at Pearl Studios and Ripley Greer, you know, she take care of all those logistics. And I thought that was extremely beyond, you know, what a high school student would be able to do. Yes, that was much easier. And then that's why and we were on a time crunch, because we made the decision in like October, so we had to hurry up and get all these applications and pre screens in, like the two days before the pre screen deadlines, Jane and I were sitting here uploading all to a bunch of colleges, you know, so that was that was tricky. But because she was more mature, we were I didn't feel as nervous about doing it right under the deadline.

[27:19] Holly Greenway: Yeah, totally. It feels weird to be late, even though you're like, wait a second, we started this process three years ago, never, but you're like, Oh, my late now to a deadline. I felt like we went into the audition process and the whole process this time around with a much more. Let's just do this and see what happens. There wasn't, you know, let's assume that you're going to get rejected. That sounds terrible to say, but kind of having a more throwaway attitude about it rather than I think it relaxed Jane throughout the audition process and I actually don't have a sense of humor about it.

[27:58] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, sense of humor. I mean, let's not you don't want to go in dour like, Oh, I'll never get in.

[28:01] Holly Greenway: No, the silly attitude. Yeah, let's just go ahead and audition for that school, even if it is something that would have been a total reach last year.

[28:10] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, it releases the stakes of it. I mean, I find I see people achieve that from well, I'll never get in. So let's do my best shot. And I'll see people achieve that of going, I'm definitely gonna get it. I've heard that that can work. It can almost work both ways. But either way, it almost lowers the stakes as opposed to God, I need it so bad. That's a tough place to audition from when you're in that desperate place. But if you're like, I'm not gonna get anyway, let's just have fun. Let's just yeah, let's just nail it. Like, who cares? Like, sometimes people then you have great auditions when you do that when you're like, whatever, the stakes are low, because it's a reach for me.

[28:42] Holly Greenway: Yeah. Anything anyone else wins and losses they want to talk about in this process before?

[28:44] Andrew Greenway: Well, I think for her that I she had just a really expensive gap here, as far as I'm concerned. And that's what I would told Jane and stuff in academic gap here, and stayed in the game and the MTCA people with the singing and the acting filled the holes in her educational program the way she perceived them in her freshman year. So she ended up getting through this whole process, what she kind of wanted, again, and as a consequence, you know, audition for the whatever you call those Broadway work, the Broadway workshop and gotten, you know, her worry was on the Ravina show and ended up being in this wonderful show in New York City. As part of the whole process, and the whole when it's not the night, what do you call those things where you saw the cabaret, the cabaret?

So she was able to meet whole groups of people. And kind of, I don't know, I think it'd be great in theatre programs to have a class called Disappointment 106. It's like, what did I get in my disappointment class and working through that whole thing?

[29:46] Holly Greenway: Write me that curriculum. I want that. That's good.

[29:48] Andrew Greenway: Yeah. It's just, it was such a great, you can take it, you know. There was a point in this whole thing where Jane actually said to me, as the emotional hostage negotiator, well, maybe I'm just not meant to do this, you know, and it's just, that's tough. That's tough. And without, you know, being in a school and driving through this and having the support of this organization, I think that question wouldn't have been answered in such a nuanced way for her. For herself, but it's her question.

[30:22] Jane Greenway: Um, I mean, I got like a great coaching team. And like, they helped me so much. And I even like kept seeing my song coach afterwards. And like, I think it was, it really, it was like something that I had to like, look forward to when I was like in school. I was like, well, I get to like, have coaching today. That's fun. And like, and just like going into the room being like, oh, whatever, like, I went to my first audition. And I think it was a lot of people's first audition too. And it was a dance audition. And I was like, you know what, I don't care. Like, I'm just gonna like dance and like be me. And then I ended up getting into that school. And I was like, great, perfect. Because it's just like, yeah, you just have to like, you just have to see your own lane.

I feel like I feel like in high school so hard, because you can see what everyone else is doing. But once you are doing it by yourself, it's kind of like, like, you're the only one there. Like, yeah, and your Snapchat lanes aren't bothering you because they're already in school. So you're not bad for you as they're already there.

[31:20] Charlie Murphy: Okay, let's take a short break. And on the back end, we're going to dive a little deeper into the stuff. So we're back in a flash. All right, we're back with the Greenway family. We've already opened up a little emotionally, but we're going to dive a little deeper, we're going to see and you guys get to limit if we go it goes too deep, you can say pause. But I love to as you think about this, you know, this doing it twice version of it, Jane, you know, Leo often talks about like, hey, I want to see Jane 2.0. I want to see what are you going to step into that next level? I want to hear both sides of first, did you feel like you achieved your version of 2.0? Do you feel like you really ascended?

And then I also I'm interested in really, I don't want to make this a leading question. It's really the question. Do you feel like some of your disappointment with your initial version of the process where nominally you got into a very good school, Marymount is a competitive school? Was there some incompletion on your end that you feel like you didn't achieve the first time because you felt like I didn't I didn't do the work that I know I can do. And so therefore, my results must be illegitimate or something like was there something that you feel like you didn't achieve the first time that you did achieve the second time? That's the bigger question. And then we can dive in the other side of that. But so I guess first, is that there? Is there any of that incompletion? And then did we achieve that some of that 2.0?

[32:27] Jane Greenway: Yeah, I think looking back at the first time I found my like songs and monologues. And I was like, these are perfect. And they're going to like check every box. But now like looking back, those weren't what, like, I think it was what I wanted to be. But that's not what I was fully like, that's not who I was, I think at the time. And then the second time, I think I found pieces that resonated with me in a different way that helped that pushed me more.

[33:00] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, into something and that showed what I was capable of more. And do you feel like some of that, like, both from, I guess, the piece perspective, and I guess the auditioning perspective, I guess I'm, I'm speaking to something that a lot of our students will talk about, where they'll feel I didn't show that school that I really love my best self, whether that's from the pieces or from the audition. Was there some of that in the 10 schools that you re auditioned for where you're like, they didn't get a chance to say yes or no to me really, because I didn't feel like I showed them me yet. Like, did you feel that actively? Or did you feel like, Hey, no, I just can do better. Like, I guess, was there any of that? I don't want to put that on you if that wasn't there.

[33:39] Jane Greenway: I don't think the second time I remember feeling like that the first time with certain schools, I was like, Oh, it was sometimes they would pick songs or like, sometimes I like didn't feel fully like good with it. And then I would be like, Oh, well, like, I feel like I like lost that one already. But the second time, I feel like there was no point where they like, that never happened. Like, you felt like if they're saying no to me, and that's what I'm saying the first time that happened in the second time, you feel like successfully achieved if they say no to me, they're saying no to me. And then that's their choice.

[34:08] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, I love that. Parents, anything you felt in terms of your 2.0 of it all that? Were you making adjustments? Were there things that you felt like, Hey, I achieved a different version of this other than adding in guidance counselor?

[34:21] Holly Greenway: Um, not really. I mean, yeah, I felt like, um, no, I, no, I don't think it was that much different. She passed a lot more pre screens the second time around. So it was more enjoyable to be able to and we were able to drive or audition on campus for quite a few of the schools. So that was a really nice experience the second time around to actually be physically there, meet the faculty, see what the facilities look like while she's there auditioning. Um, you know, some of that stuff was, uh, a much more positive experience the second time around.

[35:07] Charlie Murphy: And I wonder from your perspective, we didn't really talk about this at the jump when, you know, Jane first said, I want to do this or when we landed on, we are doing this. Was there any kind of dread of like, you know, you mentioned rejection 2.0 of like, oh, wait a second. This was kind of hard and we landed at a place and here we are. If we go through this again and the heart's broken again. And just in terms of your, your, your experience of watching my child go through this and get your heart broken to then do that twice. I guess. Yeah. What was that? What was that experience for you? Maybe Andrew, especially as hostess negotiator.

[35:36] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, no, for me, I remember when I, we worked in intensive care for a long time and you'd walk into work in the morning, you could feel like you're walking into a storm and not to be overly dramatic or anything, but when she's like, here we go, you know, here we go. This is good. This is going to leave a mark. And we were blessed. And Jane gave us the blessing of getting an acceptance in a school that she wanted to go relatively early into the process. And that blunted the emotional part of this an enormous amount. And, you know, Holly and I both apart from Jane, we're going, oh, please, God, I can't do this again. You know, there's nothing. We're older parents. She's our last child. And it was I watching your children be disappointed.

It's it's brutal. I mean, I'm a four year old. I can only imagine that she gets older. Oh, my God. I mean, I've had terrible things happen in my life. But this is right out there. Some of those rejects, which is just I mean, is it really that way? No, no, emotionally. And we were I was. I mean, these two were amazing and navigating the practical parts of this. But yeah, no, that was that was that was tough. It's real. It's an emotional experience for everyone for the whole family.

[36:57] Charlie Murphy: It is an emotional experience. You mentioned you have these three different communication relationships with each other in sort of that beautiful triangular way. Are there any tips in terms of stuff you'd pass on in terms of what worked for you communication or anything that you go? Hey, this wasn't the best. And, you know, whether that's about timing tips or how you did it, or, you know, were there moments you said, I just need to leave this beer. How did you all communicate with each other? Parent to child, child to parent and parent to parent?

[37:26] Holly Greenway: Well, I guess I mean, I don't know. We were all always watching the, you know, emails and things.

[37:34] Charlie Murphy: I'm in this good place. I'm in this carefree place. I don't want to lose that, that the free you go. I'm holding on to that fiercely to say I'm holding on to my joy and my ease and I don't want to wreck that by stressing out.

[39:04] Jane Greenway: Now, how did you this time ultimately come to a decision? So now with some maybe PTSD of, you know, hey, I thought a good Marymount was gonna be enough for me, but then ended up not being. You know, I guess we haven't actually attended, so we don't know for sure. I don't mean to cause PTSD, but what made you go, "Hey, Indiana feels like it is right for me," given what you were seeing? I mean, there's a geographical difference, class size difference, etc. But what was the stuff that eventually made you go, "This really feels like it's home for me"?

[40:20] Jane Greenway: So I was originally, I found out I got into Indiana. Actually, I think it was like late March, and I had gone into another school, and I was pretty set on being like, "Okay, I guess I'm gonna..." I didn't think I was gonna get into Indiana. It was my first audition, and I loved that audition. I remember sitting in the information session being like, "Those people are so lucky they get to go to that school," and like being like, "Oh, that would be so..." I remember thinking the day I got in, like, "I wish I was one of those people that got to go to one of the schools where there's like not that many kids and it's in like a big school." I remember thinking literally that morning, like, "That's so weird."

But I was, I don't know, it just... and then I found I got into Indiana, and I was like, "What?" And then we were able to do a tour day. So like, we went to Indiana for one day, and I got to see a show. They showed us around, I got to sit in on classes, meet all the faculty, and all the kids were like so... not everyone was so nice there, and I was like, "Yeah, I love it."

[41:21] Charlie Murphy: And do you mind naming the other school that you were between?

[41:26] Jane Greenway: Manhattan School of Music.

[41:27] Charlie Murphy: Uh-huh. And what was the biggest difference there geographically?

[41:33] Jane Greenway: Okay, I really think I want more of a campus. I want more of an academic environment. Was that exciting to you at all, I guess, or was it more about, "Hey, the theater program really itself is what won it over for me"?

[41:42] Jane Greenway: It was more of the theater program and the class size and the more structure and certainty within the program that I found more at Indiana. But I did like that Manhattan School of Music was in the city, and like that felt safer to me. I think it was more of like it was a full conservatory and stuff like that.

[42:01] Charlie Murphy: Right, so I was leaning more toward... Did your parents have any strong feelings in terms of now that you're doing it, that could be even both versions of deciding? But how did you weigh in or not as Jane was sort of synthesizing and saying, "Here's where I'm gonna end up"?

[42:17] Holly Greenway: This time around, we definitely were much more focused on looking very carefully at their curriculums because the first time around, you're not so familiar with looking at a college curriculum. You know, musical theater is a little overwhelming with 15 schools or whatever, but this time around, we were much more conscientious of what the curriculums required, what she'd already taken at Marymount and had credit for. So, yeah, I was leaning more towards... I thought that the conservatory curriculum would be probably a better fit.

[43:06] Holly Greenway: But yeah, once we went to Indiana and saw the facility and people there, it actually did seem more structured even though it is a more academic curriculum.

[43:19] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, it sounds like maybe a little bit from what Jane said at the very beginning that there's some maybe desire to have a college experience that you feel like you're not getting at Marymount. I mean, that is one of the things you say in New York. It's not impossible, but in my childhood, it would have been the show "Felicity," if anyone wants that, where it's like you're like, "That's a different version of college than like campus," when you're like at the coffee shop and at the whatever. Like, you're like, "It's not quite the campus experience of like lounging and hanging out and feeling like I'm in college."

[44:06] Holly Greenway: And another thing we did, I went on a lot of... Manhattan School of Music is wonderful about having a lot of webinars where you meet faculty and hear from students and things like that. So I did make a point to participate in some of those, and it was a lot of similar to what she was doing now as far as making connections in New York City. There's a lot, it sounded like from the students, there's a lot of opportunities from their perspective, but also maybe even a little bit of pressure to almost pull you away. You're kind of already doing the New York City thing, and that may... that's a lot. And where you're on a large college campus, that's the whole focus is you're there, you're studying that with this small safe group, and there's not this huge pressure to be making NYC connections in the industry already, you know, at that level constantly.

[44:49] Jane Greenway: Totally. This may not need to be said, but it may not be true in your case, but was there any version of like, "Hey, if we're doing this, this is it. You get one version and then you're going to college," or what? Like, was there some like... some parents go, "We'll do this, but I don't... we're not doing it three times. We're not there." Was there any talks in terms of finances of like, "We already did that expensive gap year. We got to go to college now and we got to finish in four years," or how did that conversation happen?

[45:15] Holly Greenway: I mean, I brought it up more than once in my... and that's exactly, "Are we doing this? Are we just on like this grand tour that people had like a hundred years ago in Europe? You're just gonna experience... are we going to California next? Fun."

[45:25] Jane Greenway: Yeah.

[45:32] Holly Greenway: Yeah, but again, you know, life's a lot to what Holly said. You know, I was very supportive of the idea of going to a state school. It's like, "Can you just go to school? Can you just go to school and learn how to be an artist?" Yeah, I don't think you need to worry about being on Broadway next week. Can you just go to school for a little while? You're still a young person. Life is long. Let's enjoy your life here a little bit. And so regardless of what happens going forward in the future, yeah, you know, that's the way that I hope that we're able to look at this, to take it and you got a proud Indiana alum in this household who was trying to shut up singing before this thing started. Made it on Broadway, Tony nominated, all those things.

[46:14] Jane Greenway: Oh, it's certainly...

[46:17] Holly Greenway: Go Hoosiers!

[46:19] Jane Greenway: Okay. At one point, I'm not doing this again, you know, so even she's...

[46:27] Holly Greenway: Yeah, and I was worried about like leaving New York City, but then I was like, "You know, I have my whole life to live in New York City," and like we can do... like once I figured that out too, I was like, "Oh, like okay, not such a mystery from you coming from the New York area." So it wasn't like, "What's New York City?" where some people are so desperate to get there. It's like you do know what New York City is. You're taking classes here. You've been here before. It's not like, you know...

[46:50] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. All right. We're gonna move toward wrapping with first... we're gonna do a little MTCA review and then we're gonna do some advice for each other. So this is your chance now to critique, review MTCA, positives, negatives. I want to hear all of it. I want to hear about, you know, the stuff that you got from us because you got this twice. You got, you know, you taking webinars, you're here in all the meetings, you're hearing maybe you're listening to the podcast, whatever you're getting advice from MTCA. Any big pieces that you go, "Hey, I heard this, I held on to it." I really loved it. And is there anything that you heard that you go, "I heard this a lot and for me, this wasn't true." You don't have to be like, "This was terrible," or whatever, but for me, I didn't need this advice as much.

And then the third element of that, would you choose your adventure with this? Was there any advice that you go, "This is really important that MTCA never said in the two years, why didn't you say that?" So stuff that you really love, stuff that you didn't take as much, and was there anything you felt like was missing from sort of our strategic advice or what you heard from us in terms of MTCA sort of guide?

[47:43] Jane Greenway: Sometimes people would say things like, "You will land where you're meant to be," and I always was like, "You might not." I think like you might not, and that's okay. Like you could do it. Like I feel like that's something that's said all the time, like, "You will land where you're meant to be," but sometimes you don't. And like, but like you still, I can pick yourself back up from that. Like that's... I don't think it's like a final, like point blank period you ended here, it's done. Like sometimes the door is still open.

[48:15] Charlie Murphy: I love that you said that, and certainly I think I would co-sponsor that. I would not say everybody ends up where they're meant to be. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't disagree with someone who wants to say that because you can get really meta in terms of, "I actually was meant to not where I was that meant up and then to come and do another year." Okay, but like in this spiritual sense of it all, but just knowing the machinations on the back end of how subjective some of these decisions are, I'm like, it is not the case that everybody... like I do think ultimately people tend to find good fits a lot of the time, but it's not a hundred percent. There's times you go, "That person got five bits of bad luck in a row," and that happens too.

Also, like there's not like, "Oh God, this is what you were meant to not get this job," and not get the people. You can tell your life backward that way, but I think smart people like you, Jane, sometimes hear that advice and go, "Wait a second, how could that be true?" And you may not be what people mean when they say it exactly, that everybody's... everything happens for a reason, it always works out that way.

[49:08] Holly Greenway: I'm a big fan of people not saying everything happens for a reason. As a person that began working critical care when someone's has an injured family member, it's like, "No, sometimes things don't happen for a reason." And I think that tragedies happen. I don't say this about many things, and just from my perspective in this and navigating through the practical aspect and the emotional aspect, I mean, you guys, I don't know how people do this without... yes, this would be impossible without the support of this. And the second time around, even more so than the first, the support of her coaches, it was incredible. It was absolutely incredible to hold her spirits up but to challenge her at the same time. So we have the money to afford it. There is that being said that, and there's a measure...

[50:05] Charlie Murphy: Take a step forward. And I think, um, like your parents could help you with that to being like the people that, oh, like, have a little empathy for you. I think that's, that's a good part of it all.

[50:35] Charlie Murphy: Because realistically, like everyone around you is going to be like, you're gonna do this again, like, like, it's not like high school, it's like, yay, we're all going to college like it's not you're in college and you're going to try again. And this is all on you like that part of it. Um, and I think they helped with, even like when my mom did with the academic stuff, that's really good. Like, you could not imagine doing that.

[51:05] Jane Greenway: Yeah, it would not happen. Yeah, no. And even going to the auditions, and just like, I think this time we I would I would make her sit four away sometimes.

[51:35] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, I was. So dad gets muted and mom gets pushed distance away. Very interesting.

[51:54] Jane Greenway: She would want me right outside the room, you know, and to know where I was. And there was this kind of, I need to know where you are all the time. The second time around, she's like, Oh, please go shopping at Macy's. I think I just needed to just be like, just be focused. And I think sometimes parents might not understand that if like, you just need to be centered and like focused, and it doesn't help when there's people more people around you, then you can like, like stand, but that doesn't come from like, get away from me kind of thing. It comes from just like, it's overwhelming. And I think maybe some parents won't understand that. But especially for the second time, it's like, I know what I'm getting into. Like, I know what I'm doing. I just I don't need people around me.

[52:43] Jane Greenway: I talk to my wife all the time. I work from home. And so often I'm like, from meeting to meeting. And I'll literally say, love, you can't talk right now. But I'm like, it's like to be able to say like, I love you. I'm not mad at you. But I'm like going to thing to thing. And I need to focus. Like, that is not easy for most 17 year olds to say, Mom, I love you. Not mad at you. But I need to focus. Like, just be like, that's what I need. You know? Yeah.

[53:00] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. And then, Andrew, Holly, what about on the flip side? How can students, kids do a better job communicating with their parents? Maybe if it's helping their parents, you could think of help helping them help them helping the parents to be better helpers. What's something that either if Jane did really well, or that you go Jane could have done a little better at this in 1.0 or 2.0? How to help you help her?

[53:30] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, I mean, Jane, she communicated with us a lot about what she was doing. And maybe just, you know, she was reassuring that we would get I we were I was getting kind of panicky towards the end about getting all the pre screens uploaded and all that. And Jane kind of, oh, no, we'll do it. I'll get it done. And so she had that kind of trust in herself. I guess. Um, yeah, just letting me know where she is a little more.

[54:00] Jane Greenway: With that kind of thing, right, would make you feel better to know, I've got it. I'm going to do it by Tuesday, giving you some reassure your parents that you have you have it. You're you know where the videos are. Yeah. And all the technology too. And Andrew, anything either in that version of how parents students can help their parents better or prepare how parents can help each other to us as that emotional support animal.

[54:24] Andrew Greenway: Yeah, I mean, Jane is really good about helping. I think one of the big challenges of being a grown up is learning how to let go. And I think that she was we had some struggles about that. But I have this, let it go, let it go. Stop, stop, stop. But being able to navigate. I mean, she can Jane's a lovely, kind, good hearted person. But it can get rough in the middle of this and emotionally giving people space to, to be them and understand, you know, a struggle. It was worth having because it worked out well.

[54:58] Jane Greenway: Worked out well.

[55:00] Andrew Greenway: Really? Yeah, well, we had a couple plan B's. We did. That would be the other thing is to really be honest about. Yeah. Because she did audition and get into a program that was in a college, you know, the I am t and I, we toyed with that idea and what that would look like. And so you want to also keep discussing what if to have a backup plan?

[55:27] Jane Greenway: That the trickiness of how to discuss the what if without making that the focus, like when you look on the left and your car starts veering left to go, I don't want to focus on like, oh, all the disaster is going to happen. But to know what what is going to happen if it's not, if it's not the dream, if it's some of these things that are, you know, Indiana, we're talking about under 5%. That's those are difficult schools to get into. They may not happen, even if you're very talented, even if it's difficult to nurture someone's dream, but also bring, you know, a measure of responsible thinking about the whole thing. And that was really, really, really,

[55:57] Andrew Greenway: yeah, those were some cross discussion.

[55:59] Jane Greenway: Those are tough. And they're tough about what's your expectation for her? What's my expectation of her? What? This isn't about me. This isn't about you. You know, this is about, you know, her. And it's, it's, it's very challenging to navigate that in the family, actually. And she has two siblings who are, you know, older, but still kind of interfacing with this. And both her older siblings were both like, you two are crazy. There's a lot going on.

[1:00:27] Andrew Greenway: Oh, yeah, we get lots of critique from our adult children.

[1:00:31] Jane Greenway: What we'll bring them on next. We can get Oh, my God. Well, thank you guys for this wonderfully open conversation. I really appreciate that. It's really helpful for other people to listen to and we really appreciate the time.

[1:00:47] Charlie Murphy: Oh, boy. Yes, yes, yes. So fun to have our first full family podcast experience. And just like with these previous alumni episodes, the temptation is to do like 30 minutes of takeaways. I'm going to try to resist and just do a normal takeaway length. We'll see how we do. I do think just worth starting with. And I think I emphasized this enough on the episode, but I just want to kind of triple underline the individuality of the podcast.

[1:01:14] Charlie Murphy: And deciding whether to re audition or not. There is a lot to think about. For those of you out there who are thinking about it, right? This is where if you're an MTC air, and honestly, even if you're not an MTC family, we'd really love to talk to you about it. If it's something that you're considering, there may be angles of your particular situation and just what your process would look like that we can help illuminate and sitting down and talking it all through with you.

[1:01:36] Charlie Murphy: We've just seen all the different versions of it. I mean, I've talked to students who were feeling really unhappy their first semester, but then stuck it out. And we're really glad they did. I've talked to students who've decided to re audition and been so glad they did ended up at their dream school much better fit for themselves after a more maybe conscious process, sometimes a more authentic process for themselves that they really feel better about the process, regardless of the result. Right. And then we've also had students who have been insistent on the re audition process for a long time, and they've been really happy with it.

[1:02:05] Charlie Murphy: They've been really insistent on the re audition experience, and sometimes that they can get a little stuck betwixt in between. You know, I can think of one of my incredibly talented students from a number of years back who got a Juilliard callback his first time auditioning and was just convinced that that was the only school for him. And despite getting into a bunch of other great schools and then attending some of those great schools, he kept wanting to take a gap year and try again or stick at the school and then try again to the point by the end, I was really advising him. Get out at your great program. You have two years left.

[1:02:36] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. Today, we have the Greenway family with us, and we're diving into their unique experience of navigating the college audition process not once, but twice.

[1:03:06] Charlie Murphy: So, let's start with you, Jane. Can you share what prompted you to go through the college audition process a second time?

[1:03:36] Jane Greenway: Absolutely! The first time around, I was really focused on finding a program that fit my artistic goals, but I realized that I needed to take a step back and reassess what I truly wanted. After some reflection, I decided to try again with a clearer vision of my aspirations.

[1:04:06] Charlie Murphy: That's a great insight. And how did you and your family approach this decision together?

[1:04:36] Sarah Greenway: It was definitely a family discussion. We all sat down and talked about what Jane wanted and what we felt would be best for her future. It was important for us to support her in finding a program that aligned with her goals.

[1:05:06] Charlie Murphy: And what were some of the key factors you considered when looking at different college programs?

[1:05:36] Jane Greenway: For me, it was about the faculty and the curriculum. I wanted to be in an environment that would challenge me and help me grow as an artist.

[1:06:06] Sarah Greenway: We also looked at the size of the program and the opportunities for performance. Jane needed a place where she could really shine and get the experience she was looking for.

[1:06:36] Charlie Murphy: That makes a lot of sense. Now, Jane, can you talk about the difference in your preparation for the auditions the first time versus the second time?

[1:07:06] Jane Greenway: Sure! The first time, I was a bit overwhelmed and didn't have a clear strategy. I was just trying to get everything done. The second time, I took a more focused approach. I worked with MTCA to refine my pieces and really hone in on what I wanted to present.

[1:07:36] Charlie Murphy: That's a significant shift. What specific strategies did you find most helpful during your preparation?

[1:08:06] Jane Greenway: I found that working on my monologues and songs with a coach made a huge difference. They helped me to dig deeper into the characters and really connect with the material.

[1:08:36] Charlie Murphy: And how did that impact your confidence going into the auditions?

[1:09:06] Jane Greenway: It was night and day! I felt so much more prepared and self-assured. I knew I was presenting my best self, which made a big difference in how I approached each audition.

[1:09:36] Charlie Murphy: That's fantastic to hear. And what about you, Sarah? As a parent, how did you support Jane through this process the second time around?

[1:10:06] Sarah Greenway: I think the biggest thing was just being there for her emotionally. I wanted to make sure she felt supported and understood that it was okay to take her time to find the right fit.

[1:10:36] Charlie Murphy: That's so important. Did you find that your perspective as a parent changed from the first time to the second?

[1:11:06] Sarah Greenway: Definitely. The first time, I was more anxious about the outcome. The second time, I focused more on the journey and the growth that Jane was experiencing.

[1:11:36] Charlie Murphy: That's a great shift in mindset. Jane, what advice would you give to other students who might be considering going through the college audition process again?

[1:12:06] Jane Greenway: I would say to really take the time to reflect on what you want and to seek out guidance from mentors or coaches. It's important to have a clear vision and to be open to growth.

[1:12:36] Charlie Murphy: Wise words! And as we wrap up, what are your hopes for the future now that you've gone through this process again?

[1:13:06] Jane Greenway: I'm excited to start this new chapter in my education and to continue growing as an artist. I feel more prepared than ever to take on the challenges ahead.

[1:13:36] Charlie Murphy: That's wonderful to hear. Thank you both for sharing your journey with us today. It's been a pleasure having you on the podcast.

[1:14:06] Sarah Greenway: Thank you for having us!

[1:14:36] Jane Greenway: Yes, thank you!