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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Dean Nolen from Texas Tech University on the pod. For our newer listeners, it's another one of our college deep dive episodes where we explore the landscape of the college theatre world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. And as you listen to this, I am hopefully hiking up a beautiful mountain in Utah. My family and I are taking a little spring break vacation and seeing if we can inspire a lifelong love of nature in our four-year-old that her father never quite achieved. This means we are going on a glamping adventure.

That's glamping for those who don't know what glamour camping is. It's a bit of nature, some open air, some stars, but dad still gets a bed at the end of the night. This is the secret to marriage we found is compromise. Compromise, I tell you. But I say all of that to note that if there is some huge musical theatre college news that happens in this past week, it will unfortunately go unreacted to in this interview, in this opening or takeaway, as I'm recording this a bit in advance. We recorded this one and the audio blog one about our kindergarten experience, just so that we could give you uninterrupted pods while I'm gone. And hopefully we have achieved that and we'll be able to get back to you with our regularly scheduled programming in April.

I will talk about it in the takeaways a bit, but we are really excited for the upcoming months of what we got going on with Mapping the College Audition. We are launching a few new kinds of shows. We're expanding the artist exploration episodes into a kind of wider art exploration idea. Some of which we've done before with exploring different job types. We did a manager and an agent and a casting director, those kind of things. But we're going to keep that going and we're going to try to explore a few different concepts of the business as well. So we've got a fun episode upcoming, which explores the life cycle of a show, the idea of like from conception to cast album, what that means for a new musical.

And then we also have a series coming, which I'm really excited about on different showcases, as well as a few other fun ideas we're kicking around. So stay tuned. We're going to keep innovating and improving this pod for you month by month if we can manage it. Of course, make sure you've smashed that subscribe button. You can always consider writing us a rating and review, or maybe a second one under a different alias if you've already written us one. Thank you for doing that. And if you really need to hear more of my voice on a weekly basis, I understand. I understand the impulse. You can always check out my Survivor podcast as well. That's going great. Our downloads are up out of the roof, if you can believe it.

My Survivor podcast is called That's How You Do It. That's How You Do It. That's the catchphrase from Survivor. My buddy and I from college break down all of the strategies and relationships of the television show Survivor, which if you're like, how is that still going on? Wasn't that 25 years ago? Yes, it's still going strong. It's season 50. We're doing a podcast for season 50. And if you're missing out on Survivor 50, get in the game. There's still time. You can catch up, catch up and catch up with the pod. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. All right, let's get to this interview with Dean Nolen from Texas Tech University.

[3:28] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by Dean Nolen. Dean has a BA from Hardin-Simmons University and an MFA from Yale. Lots of exciting credits, Broadway and off, including the original Broadway cast of Mamma Mia and also a Drama Desk Award in 2021 for Tabletop, some other really exciting things. And he is an associate professor of acting, theater and dance at Texas Tech, which is located in Lubbock, Texas. They're looking for classes of about 8 to 10 in acting and MT. And we'll talk about those different degrees, which they offer BFA Theater Arts in MT and acting, as well as a BFA in dance and a BA. Dean, welcome on the show. How are you feeling today?

[4:10] Dean Nolen: Charlie, thank you. I'm feeling great, feeling very good. In fact, just finished an acting class, so I'm sort of on a high.

[4:18] Charlie Murphy: Oh, good. You're on a high. I'm on a low. We're going to meet in the middle of the time we've done this. We'll average it out. It's the post-lunch doldrums that I'm trying to sort of now get over. I read that infinitesimal bio about you. Is there anything else that you would just want people to know about you in terms of like your journey to Texas Tech? I think you mentioned in the pre-show that you got there in 2014. So what would we need to know about you in terms of just how you arrived at the school?

[4:39] Dean Nolen: Well, I started, of course, I've been an actor since high school. And in Texas, we have something called One Act Play, UAL One Act Play, which is really unique to the state. And that was how I got my start in high school and then went to college, majored in theater, moved to Dallas, worked as an actor in pretty much every theater in Dallas, got my equity card at the New Stage Theater in Jackson, Mississippi, doing Glass Menagerie all in my early 20s, and then moved to New York and went, yikes, what have I done? I loved it. It was brilliant. It was where I wanted to live. And I did for many years, 20 years. But then I thought, oh, I don't feel as adequate as I should. So I did apply to graduate school.

Yale said yes. And I obviously said yes. And then the rest is sort of history in terms of auditioning after grad school and having that really incredible experience. I would say that the people that we work with as young actors really do have a big influence. So look at the people that you are going to be working with. Do your due diligence. And look at the faculty. Find out what they've done. Find out what their experience is. My undergrad professor and mentor had gone to Yale many, many years before. So when I applied, I said, hey, I have a secondhand Yale education. I'm really interested in what it's like to have a firsthand experience. And for whatever reason, they agreed. So yeah, I think that that's important to know about me.

I think our commitment as actors, our passion as actors for what it is that we do, Charlie, you know exactly what I'm talking about. We have this need to transmit that love for what we do and that respect for what we do into a younger generation of actors. And I find that to be a thrill. So I worked and worked as an actor, television, stage, Broadway, off-Broadway, regional theater galore, and loved every bit of it. But I went in for an old friend of mine who was an actor. And she had started teaching. And I came in to do a master class. And Charlie, I can't tell you, I absolutely fell in love with that process. It changed me at the core. So what I really love about being an acting, what do you call us, teaching artists.

What I love about being a teaching artist and a working actor at the same time is that I relearn the lessons that I'm working with students on with younger actors. So it's a two-fold experience. I get to reinforce or relearn things that I know to be true and then also share that with younger generations. I love it. And boy, did we hear that Yale education in there, your due diligence. Tongue twister of all twisters. I love it.

[8:02] Charlie Murphy: So talk to me a little bit about, from a broad perspective, what a Texas Tech, let's say, especially theater arts student is. I'm going to ask a little bit about the broader university, but as we talk about the theater students that you work with, what distinguishes them from a student who might go to another university, whether that's another Texas university or just broader in the country? What makes a Texas Tech student a Texas Tech student?

[8:18] Dean Nolen: I think for me, what we seek and generally what we find in students that we bring into the program is a generosity of spirit. There is something important in our lives as actors, in our professional lives, in our creative lives, that we find a generousness, something in our purpose, the work behind what it means to be an actor, finding integrity in that. And that is something that I would say distinguishes our program in particular, is finding people who understand what generosity of spirit means. And then maybe something that they have internally, that it just comes naturally to them. Divas, I think it's fun working with divas too. I mean, there's a lot of laugh and a lot of fun, but there can also be a lot of unnecessary stuff.

So to hopefully work that out of someone who might have a propensity for being a little bit of a diva. I don't know. Yeah, Patti gets away with it because she's Patti and she's done her thing and she's amazing and brilliant. But even then she has respect for her work and for that of others. There is that, there is still that generosity when it comes to the work. And I say Patti as in we all know who La LuPone is, Patti LuPone, the brilliant. But yeah, I think there's a need to be proud of the work that we do. But at the same time, stand up for really good work. And I appreciate that.

[10:07] Charlie Murphy: And what about just from a broader university perspective? I think you are our first, I believe, hundreds of episodes in, you may be our first university that's got tech in the name. I'm going to be fact checked if that's not true, but I don't think that we've had any tech universities on. What does it mean to be a tech university? And then I'd love to hear a little bit about just like, what are they getting from the broader university experience as well?

[10:27] Dean Nolen: So Texas Tech began as obviously a tech and engineering school many, many, many, many decades ago. But I think they've also distinguished themselves, our administration and the university at large, as a university that prizes the arts, that really has a great commitment to the arts. And I think that came later, obviously, certainly with George Sorensen and a number of people who began this theater program back earlier in the last century. Let me just give you an example of how I think the university supports the arts. We, as a school of theater and dance, just moved into four years, five years ago, a brand new $43 million complex. It is state of the art. It is exquisite. It's challenging in the best ways because it gives young designers, students, actors access to just the most current technology, but also gives us as artists, the opportunity to explore and expand, to feel like we belong.

And I think the university has gone a long way in terms of making sure that that's how the arts are received and supported at this university. So I'm very proud of Texas Tech, even though it sounds like a very technical place, it's also super, super artistic atmosphere. As relates to the second part of your question, the university writ large gives students massive opportunities. It's a 40, roughly 40,000 students, so it's a big-ish school with all of the requisite big sports, football, basketball, baseball, track, everything you can imagine available to students who want the full spectrum of what a larger university can offer. But at the same time, students in our program have a place to come to that is sort of a hibernating shell where we can come in and really explore privately.

But then there's the expansive, there's even a lazy river running through our campus, if you can imagine. Yes, we can imagine. So yes, so I've yet to participate in the lazy river, but I know it's there. It's a nice thought. I doubt that I'll get sunburned.

[13:02] Charlie Murphy: What about from an academic perspective of, do you have a sense of how many credits they're taking? So if I'm getting a BFA, let's say theater arts in MT especially, how much time am I spending in the MT degree versus how many credits or how much time am I spending outside in other academic pursuits? You're spending a lot of time in the MT degree.

[13:22] Dean Nolen: It is roughly 134 credit hours, it might be 135 credit hours. And when we designed the program, we had to petition the state to increase that level. It's just impossible when you combine dance, singing, and acting. All of those required courses really do come into play. Less available in the MT degree are extracurricular courses or electives. Pretty much that degree plan is absorbed in the process.

[13:58] Charlie Murphy: Do any of your students get minors or double majors?

[14:01] Dean Nolen: They do. It might be that they're here for more than four years, or the biggest trend over the last many years, as you well know, is that students come in with a number of AP courses or pre-college courses that get out of the way a number of the basics, some of the core requirements. So it gives them a little more space to maybe take an elective or two or three, or create a minor. And most of us are overachieving. I think most theater students, actors in general, and when I say...

[14:35] Charlie Murphy: We're not sitting on that lazy river, Dean. We're at the time for the lazy river.

[14:39] Dean Nolen: Well, some do, and I applaud them for that. I wish I could. But yeah, that overachieving exists in us. And I think that that's part and parcel of the kind of people that we are excited to get in. Do you have a sense if they don't have a lot of AP credits, or I guess regardless, there's 135 in the major, do you know how many credits outside of the major are required?

[15:01] Dean Nolen: That's 135 total.

[15:03] Charlie Murphy: 135 total. Do you know how many are in the major?

[15:06] Dean Nolen: Oh, 60. I created this, and now I'm trying to remember, but it was over a decade, 12 years ago. So I think 60 or 65 credits within the major. So it is a full four-year degree. Making transferring always a challenge, I won't say impossible. I would say to you, the last thing that we all say collectively is no. Typically, if a student asks us about something, or if we have a possibility of someone that's really exciting, we will say, well, let's see. Let's discover. Let's find out what we can do to make this happen. But yes.

[15:46] Charlie Murphy: I love it. Talk me through a little bit about the curriculum. So I'd love to hear... Let's maybe start with the MT, and then I want to hear how the acting curriculum would differ. But what would four years look like in terms of what I'm getting acting-wise, singing-wise, dance-wise? And then we'll talk a little bit more, sort of senior capstone stuff. But let's talk about what is that training growth? How am I going to be different freshman year and then junior year in terms of the growth artistically?

[16:09] Dean Nolen: So the beginning of the program is foundational in terms of voice, speech, acting, singing. If you're in the MT program, you're going to be in voice lessons every week that you're in the program. You will sing. You will create and develop, beginning your first semester, a repertoire, a book. And you will begin to build that book over the four years so that ostensibly by the time you graduate, you are fully prepared with any number of audition pieces, an understanding of the different kinds, the varied kinds of musical theater genres you can fall into that you might find yourself really drawn to. But then you're also going to be expanding yourself. You're going to push out of these, I won't say habits, but these areas that you feel comfortable in so that you can stretch yourself as an actor.

Some students come in really trained in terms of singing and maybe not so much dance and maybe not so much acting. It's important that all three be addressed, worked on, push yourselves into these areas. We believe in breaking a sweat, both metaphorically and literally. It is really important to dive in and be fearless about it, no matter where you think you are. So it begins foundationally. And then each year, incrementally, you begin to push yourself even further. Students are also, it's important to say, they are allowed into the casting pool the moment they arrive. So it is very possible that a freshman would be, a first year, a first semester freshman would be cast in a production. We also make sure that it's understood that through musical theater, the role is understood through the actor's point of view.

So I'm an actor who sings, an actor who dances, or an actor. It's so important that we move from one motive to the other. If I'm going to do a play, then I need to, if I'm a musical theater actor, I need to be able to do a play as well and go out and do a commercial, understand what on-camera acting. So at the beginning, it's mostly staged, but all the classes are geared toward either on-camera or stage. The second year, we introduce a deeper understanding of IPA, International Phonetic Alphabet, all of the things that are important to the basics of who we are as artists, certainly as theater artists. And dance is also, you are in a dance studio consistently and constantly while you're here.

It is possible to double up on dance classes. It is possible to have to repeat some classes if you haven't pushed yourself into another level. We want to see you gain that confidence and that skill set. So again, it's a personalized approach to the work based on where each individual actor is, but there's also a collective cohort that they fit into. And each year they pass on together to the next level of degree of difficulty.

[19:48] Charlie Murphy: And how much interaction is there between the acting and the MT majors? I guess they're both theater arts majors with these different sort of degrees there, but are different concentrations maybe, but how much are they interacting in the same classes versus how different are the two curricula?

[20:04] Dean Nolen: Almost all through the journey of four years, they will all be together. The difference would be that actors who aren't in the musical theater concentration will focus on more acting technique or working on scenes, producing their own plays within the school individually or collectively in a group. So the only difference is that they may not be taking the dance classes, although you'd be surprised at how many actors in the acting track really want to take dance classes. Many of them want to take voice. So there is a class, a voice class that is offered to those who are interested in a voice class who may not be getting private lessons through the musical theater track, but they journey through together quite a bit.

We also have something that's called cohort on Fridays. This is a time when all of the studios, dance, music, acting come together and they are, I guess, celebrating is a good way of saying the work that they've been doing in class, in studio, in terms of voice, whatever song they're working on. And they perform that material in front of faculty and in front of their cohort. And it becomes, again, a celebration of where they're at or just a great workshop moment where they can try something and we begin to work on it collectively.

[21:31] Charlie Murphy: And do you feel like, is there for the MTs especially, is there a focus that either sort of you are designing for the program that Texas Tech is hoping, hey, we really want to have a sense of these are really actors first or really singers first or dancers first or all three equally? Or is there a focus that you feel like the industry has sort of said, hey, we really tend to know that these students are really strong dancers, really strong actors, really strong singers, one of those?

[21:54] Dean Nolen: For us, it's important that they be very leveled in all three disciplines. It's imperative. Now, there are actors who come who may not be great dancers, may not have that gift. I don't think that's exclusionary for us. If they come in and they can move. I would not, I would not say that Rex Harrison was the best dancer in the world, you know, probably not the best singer. But there are, there is evidence that he had great skill and charm. So maybe that's a strength that they have that we can help them develop and be confident in. I, yeah, I'm, we are not going to say to someone who has a marvelous voice and is a lovely actor, no, you can't dance. Let's bring you in and let's see where you could go and let's get you to a place. Let's push you in that area. So again, not wanting to be a factory, but wanting to be an incubator, a place where you come in and we meet you where you are. That's really important.

[23:03] Charlie Murphy: I love it. Talk to me about, so especially that, you know, in a senior year, but even building up into it, how are you preparing your students sort of for the launch into the business? And then what does that look like in terms of a showcase or a capstone? Or how are they sort of entering the business prepared from Texas Tech?

[23:19] Dean Nolen: We started partnering with the growing tree several years back and our showcase is streamed, which I think is probably better these days because it's harder and harder even to get my agents back in New York to come to a showcase. It just is. I think COVID changed the landscape so greatly in terms of how we anticipate how a showcase will be viewed or experienced. So much easier, I think, in this sense. So we invest some time and money into the video, into the filming of it, but more importantly into choosing what material they use, how, and it's more important that they choose the material after having been here for years. What turns you on? What excites you about a character or a piece? And let's build on that.

We bring in, usually by Zoom, I've brought in my agents in the past and Jason Stiers and some other casting people to come in and work with our students. I think it's important that they have the opportunity to work with these industry professionals in their environment, that is to say in our environment, as opposed to going out and suddenly walking into these offices in New York City, which can be overwhelming. They can develop a relationship with them and realize that these are people who are on our side and want us to really be terrific at what we do and are generous. Many, many are just so very generous. Understanding that rather than letting yourself become overwhelmed by the surroundings.

New York City is in and of itself enough of a surrounding that it can be overwhelming. And back to what you have made so important in your process, and that is demystifying the audition. I think that's something that we try to do by letting them encounter casting agents, casting directors rather, agents, producers on their own turf and not feel afraid. Finding a strength.

[25:42] Charlie Murphy: It's so important. I mean, I feel like that is something that I did not feel graduating from school. I felt comfortable, at least. It's not that we didn't have enough information, but just the feeling of being like, oh my God, they're just people just like us. That idea of like, I would interact with them the way that I interact with any other human being. I mean, it's a professional relationship, but there definitely was the aura and the, whatever, the mystification, I guess. What's the opposite of demystification? It was mystifying to me. The sort of like, what are you like behind that table? And so certainly it's nice to get a little bit of that experience before you leave school. For sure.

[26:20] Dean Nolen: Can we talk a little bit about costs? So our crack research team says tuition looks like it's about 11,000, almost 12,000 for residents and 24,000 for non-residents. How would that then those costs come down when we talk about, are there academic scholarships? I mean, those are already pretty low prices, but academic scholarships, are there talent scholarships? How might I pay a number that's different than that number if I do?

[26:37] Dean Nolen: There are a number of ways. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say this, but I will anyway. I'm sure Texas Tech will forgive me.

[26:44] Dean Nolen: I doubt they'll fire me because I have tenure. But I do know that when we go out, I travel the country, go all over the place and look and experience talent. And often it's very daunting to imagine paying out-of-state tuition. But if indeed there is something there, we have the ability to say, hey, we have this amount of scholarship money that we are wanting to give you. If it is a certain level of money, that actually cancels out-of-state tuition so that they would then begin to pay in-state tuition. So we bear that in mind whenever we're working with students from states away from Texas. There is something in place to remedy a situation like that. You are correct. I think tuition, comparatively speaking, is very affordable, frankly, certainly for Texas residents.

And then states that border Texas, I believe there is some proviso where students are able to have in-state tuition as well. But I'm happy to say that we can make it so that scholarships in a certain amount are able to negate the need for out-of-state tuition. They cannot fire you for that. If they fire you for that, Dean, then that's mild. It would be not a cause for firing. We'll wait until they see what I'm directing next year, and then we'll see. Yeah, well, for cause, not for reasons of my firing. I wouldn't agree. And what does that mean in terms of what does it look like in terms of your student population? How many come from the Texas or, let's say, the in-state areas, the Texas and surrounding states, versus how many come from all over the country or different places?

[28:25] Charlie Murphy: So, Dean, that's a good question. I would say that it's about 50-50, my sense. And I haven't looked at numbers recently, as in this year. But I would say we bring in a good number. At least half of our students are from out-of-state in both concentrations, BFA acting and MT. But we also get a lot of students in our BA program, the more generalized degree, from around the country as well. It's pretty exciting to note that. But because we're in Texas, and Texas is such a giant state, and because of UIL one-act play, which I encourage you to look up, because if you haven't heard of it, it's every school, every high school in Texas participates in this. That's thousands of high schools. Football players, cheerleaders, all the popular people.

Where I went to high school, in Seminole, Texas, the captain of the football team was also the president of the choir. It was really cool to be in the arts. And I feel very fortunate to have had that experience. But that's something I think Texas does, is fosters that kind of interest and that kind of growth in the arts through the UIL system. So in that sense, we do get a good many students from Texas. And then I will also say that there are a lot of universities, new universities, come down to Texas and steal our students.

[30:08] Dean Nolen: I was going to say, Texas grows talent that goes all over the country too. Texas has a lot of great talent. It does. And that also makes us proud. I'm teasing. But yeah, there's excitement about, I think, talent around the state. They do a great job fostering it. Speaking of growth and ambition, I'd love to hear a little bit about what are the goals for Texas Tech? I mean, with the MT, it sounds like you got about a decade old in terms of the experience of the MT degree. What are you hoping for in terms of 10 years from now? How will it be different? Will it be bigger? Will it be just about it's a higher quality? Is it about, hey, we're trying to have more notoriety throughout the country? What are some of your ambitions or goals if you were to look 10 years forward?

[30:48] Dean Nolen: I will say, I don't know how important it is necessarily for us to be a number one school in the top 20 or number five or what have you. I think what we're more interested in is putting our heads down and doing the work and really spending that time with our student population, with these artists. Sure, that kind of recognition is great. It's not our number one goal. I think we're really happy just working with the students that have trusted us with their understanding of craft, with their growth. That's our commitment. And as Pollyanna as that may sound, it really is the truth. We are so invested in that. Yes, I think we will continue to grow by adding faculty as we need them in the MT program.

We are now searching, in fact, for one particular faculty member that I think will join us next year. So that kind of growth, yes. But I think staying away from a big flashy program is not staying away from it, but not letting that be a goal of ours is really important. It's really about the work. And my students kind of tease me about that. I am always saying, listen, it's not about you. It's not about me. It's about the work. And we've got to get that done. And that's the most important thing for us.

[32:27] Charlie Murphy: It aligns well with that spirit of generosity you're talking about in terms of what your students are, the kind of students that you attract. So it makes a lot of sense. Okay, let's take a short little break. On the back end, we're gonna talk a little bit about how to get into Texas Tech. So we'll talk about the audition and the admission process back in a flash.

[32:42] Dean Nolen: All right, we are back with Dean Nolen. We're gonna talk a little bit about the audition process. So I want to pick up where we left off with that idea of generosity. So you're looking for students who are generous. I'd love to hear from a general perspective what you're looking for in an audition, but I'm always curious when some of those words that can feel like we're looking for kindness, we're looking for generosity, like how is that the kind of thing that you are able to sniff out in an audition room? So whether it's in the monologues, in the songs, in the way they interact with you, how are you sensing for or testing for generosity, if that's a qualifying factor?

[33:07] Dean Nolen: It's something that I sense pretty immediately. It's just in the way that we comport ourselves when we walk into a room. It is attention to craft, knowing what you're doing. There's a confidence, I think, that goes along with that generosity of spirit, which sounds like a buzzword or a buzzphrase. Maybe it is, but it's truthful. And I think it's also in the way that they interpret the work in a monologue. I sense just from understanding the work that they've put into it where they are. If they get it, if an actor really gets the given circumstances of the character that they're living, that's a real excitement for us when we're viewing that audition. And when it's not about them, when it becomes about the work.

Yes, when we walk in the door, it is about saying who we are, talking openly about where we're at, answering questions. But then when it's about the work, go into that work and let that speak for itself. That to me tells me where a student, where a young actor is.

[34:24] Charlie Murphy: How do you see, I mean, so it totally makes sense that generosity that, you know, in the conversation with the faculty when you're doing that. And then I think I understand having been trained in acting, what you mean by generosity within the monologue itself or within the work. But could you talk more about what does it look like to see an actor be generous? Because I would say I even could, as a lay person, it would be easy to understand, oh, being generous to your scene partner when you have a scene partner. Of course, in there you're doing a monologue, you don't have a scene partner. So how do I be generous to a scene partner when that scene partner is the wall behind you?

[35:07] Dean Nolen: It regards the imagination. If someone is free, an actor, I think our greatest tool, and one of the things that resonated so deeply with me at Yale, working with Earl Gister and our teachers there, was how important the imagination is. And when we talk about allowing ourselves to be vulnerable, you know, it sounds so actors have to make themselves vulnerable. What it is, is that we, as the artist, allow who we are to be part of the work as well. And when you're generous that way, if you're not afraid to let yourself be part of this role, not all of you, because there are given circumstances that we have to filter in, but when they have the ability to allow the imagination to take over, it is about being generous with the scene partner and that scene partner is in the imagination. It's there in the room with them that we don't see them.

[35:55] Charlie Murphy: It's so well said. And I just love generous. The reason I want to zero in there is I love the idea of generosity as a countering force to maybe like ego. It's like the opposite of that would be like a diva mentality or it's all about me. But I think sometimes people hear, oh, I don't want ego. I don't want divas. And then think it has to be about a kind of humility, which can be sometimes self-effacing or shrinking themselves. And I think it's finding that balance of going, you can be generous and confident at the same time. You can be generous and still own your size and your space. And that doesn't have to be, I'm so sorry for even being here. Sorry for wasting your time, but still being generous.

[36:33] Dean Nolen: Charlie, exactly right. Yeah. No, there's a level of confidence that we need. There's nothing wrong with being good at what we do, nothing at all. And so when we realize that, we don't have to overdo it and go into divadom or whatever the order, whatever. If it's over self-confidence, that sometimes reads as arrogance. But if we are really confident and happy with the fact that we have what we need to have, then let the work speak for itself. And so often I think with 17, 18 year olds, when you see what feels like ego, it's insecurity too. It's not actually that they think that good, it's that they're scared. And so then it comes off as insecurity. And then the revelation in the work and in the class becomes exactly that, a revelation. Oh, oh, I do have this. I do understand that. And it builds confidence rather than taking someone down. It is building up in another area that I think is important.

[37:35] Charlie Murphy: I zeroed in on that question of it, in terms of what you're looking for. Is there anything else you think about as you're looking from a technical perspective or just stuff that you want to see in an audition, which would make someone be a yes from a Texas Tech perspective, especially maybe we're talking about the musical theater majors, anything that you're looking for to go, hey, we're looking for this level of singing ability. You mentioned they don't necessarily have to be the strongest dancer, but what else are you thinking about as you look at auditioning students?

[38:05] Dean Nolen: As long as there is a kernel or a general skill set that we can help build and help someone, again, build that confidence through learning craft and learning technique and so on, then I think that's really what's more interesting. The raw talent is what sometimes is overwhelming. My gosh, this young actor, she doesn't know what she has. He doesn't understand. They don't even know. And I can't wait for them to discover that. So it could be that they don't have much training vocally, much training as an actor, what have you. But if that raw skill or talent, that drive exists, that's also appealing.

[38:46] Dean Nolen: I think the other thing that for me stands out is, I mean, this is my own philosophy, and I acknowledge that, but I also, we're all so individual. We are so very special because we're the only one like us, the only one in existence. What I find really exciting is when someone can capitalize on what makes them different rather than not try to let that difference out, but to mask it by playing at something else. When in fact, when we embrace that thing that makes us unique and special and allow that to be in the work, allow ourselves, that special part of us to be present in what we do, that is thrilling. And at that age, at this young age, it's often so rare that someone has a conscious knowledge of that or an understanding of it, but they just do it automatically.

If someone asks me, what's the X factor? That to me is the definition of the X factor. They allow themselves to inform what they experience or what they haven't experienced, what they can imagine it would be like.

[40:06] Dean Nolen: When that's part of the work, it's magical. So those are things that we do look for. What unique quality or quirk do you have? And is it part of the work that you do? Let me shine through. What about just, can we talk about the general audition process for you in terms of, you know, where are they likely to encounter you? Or is it mostly, you're doing a lot of Unifieds. Are you seeing a lot of people on campus? Do you do virtual auditions? How might someone encounter Texas Tech?

[40:41] Dean Nolen: So the audition process is pretty similar to most everyone's. We do go through accepted.com. So that anybody who I will see on the road, I go Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio. We might be doing Los Angeles this year, Unifieds in LA. We've not done that quite yet. We do get a lot of students through that. We also go to St. Louis, CAP United. Dave is a very dear friend, an old friend. So I will see them at the satellite auditions. But at that point, me with whomever is there, or if I'm not there, someone from our, obviously our faculty will be there. We will offer a callback in that moment. And that process means that they will need to upload their materials to accepted. That callback will be to an on-campus interview and callback session here at our facilities, usually in February, just after Unifieds.

It is possible that there would be folks offered admission into the program on the spot at an audition. That is rarer, but it does happen. But then whenever we send out these or give these callbacks to people, they will upload. We will then as a collective faculty go through, listen to notes, talk about each individual. We had, I think, 120 people or a little more on our campus this year for the final callbacks. Now we did set up auditions remotely for those who weren't able to be here in person. We tried to be as accommodating as we possibly can, but that is the process. Or they can apply directly to accepted without having been seen at a satellite audition. It's not necessary to be in person somewhere, but we will go through the same process, look through their accepted materials.

We do ask for a wild card because as we were talking about earlier, we get to see who they are, what is it that's unique about them, and so that's fun as well. So it sounds like I'm synthesizing this that whether it's at a consortium-style audition that you might see them first, which can be like a live pre-screen, then they'd upload their actual pre-screen, though they might have already passed the pre-screen, or they can just add their pre-screen, have it be a pre-screen video, and then you're called back to campus. The question is, if they see you in like a Chicago Unifieds, would they also then have to come to an on-campus individual audition as well?

[43:40] Dean Nolen: Not necessarily. Chicago is so close to our on-campus audition, and then for students who are coming to us from out of state with interest, it's not always feasible for them to get to campus, so that's when we can set up an alternate video audition or a Zoom audition, which can happen. The most important thing for us though is that we get to meet with them and talk to them and get a sense of them away from the work and in the work.

[44:11] Charlie Murphy: Totally makes sense. Then how much do you factor in questions like their academics, or do you look at their academics at all? Do you look at their grades or their SATs, or do you read essays, or how much do academics factor in in terms of their admission to the university?

[44:23] Dean Nolen: Well, it's important to know that we are, Texas Tech is a Tier 1 Carnegie Research Institution. We have a level of academics that are required to some extent. So I have a different philosophy probably. For me, actors, and when I say actors, I mean actors who are BFA acting, BFA musical theater, BA theater majors, acting minors, male, female, they, any of it, actors are actors, and that's why I use the word actors or actor, but I would say sometimes actors are not the most highly, well, scholarly, sometimes academics are not as high for artists because they feel things so much more, and I think there has to be room in there for someone who might have maybe a middling or slightly lower GPA. What's the talent level?

And maybe when they're in a place where they can focus on what they are passionate about in terms of being actors, then maybe that academic level will shift and grow. And in those cases, do you have the ability to argue for those? So if someone's a little bit below Texas Tech's academic standards, you'd have the ability to say, hey, this is really talented.

[46:02] Dean Nolen: Yes, we have that ability on our acting, directing faculty, the theater performance faculty. We listen to each other, we do, and we're very passionate about finding those special talents. Maybe those that don't even know what their options are. There are many students who don't even understand that they can go to someone who can coach them on their auditions. Maybe they're just coming from a very pure place in terms of knowing that they're talented, but then they're just going to go and audition. Maybe their grades aren't 4.0 or better. It is important, but to me as an artist, as an actor teaching other actors, I get it. In fact, Yale lets in students who may not have the highest GPA because what they're really looking for is talent. And that's important.

[47:01] Charlie Murphy: I'd love to wrap with what advice you might have to parents going through this process. So we have a lot of parent listeners. So for those who you mentioned demystifying and we're trying to reduce some of the anxiety of this process, for those anxious parents who are listening because they have a sophomore or junior about to embark on this process, or God forbid, maybe they're listening as a senior and they're narrowing down those last couple of schools and it's between this school or this school. What advice would you give to the parents as they kind of guide their children into this process?

[47:26] Dean Nolen: I think the first thing is ask questions. My parents had no understanding of the theater. In fact, probably had ill thoughts of theater people, transients or whatever they thought. That changed, of course, when they started seeing, of course, when they saw me on television the first time, they were like, oh my God, you really are good. It's that kind of approval may come later in life. But parents just need to ask questions and not even hesitate.

[48:05] Dean Nolen: Do you mean of their students or do you mean of the faculty?

[48:07] Charlie Murphy: Faculty.

[48:08] Dean Nolen: Ask me, I'll answer questions about anything to do with the process. We try to be as thorough as we can at a lot of the satellite or consortium auditions. We have a chance to visit with parents in a collective meeting. And then we try to answer a lot of those questions. Then a lot of it is about philosophy. A lot of it is about the individual program, but the process itself is overwhelming, can be expensive. I totally understand that. And we do our best to curb the costs and cover the costs of acceptance. So anyone who comes to our auditions doesn't pay to upload to accept it. We cover that cost. But that's the thing that parents need to know, is what the costs are going to be. And so we're always happy to answer those questions and be supportive.

And I know most of them are. I can't think of any parent that I know at this point who hasn't been supportive of their students. But give them give them some room to breathe and maybe allow them to find that individuality when they're going to auditions rather than needing to be with them constantly. Let them begin that journey of finding themselves, finding out what this actually means being an actor.

[49:32] Dean Nolen: It's a great way of saying that. And certainly I think often at this age, it is more about an allowing than a forcing in terms of what might be of, you know, do this, honey. It's like, well, it's unlikely to get the best result if you're pushing them in a direction versus letting them discover and be what they're going to be on their own.

[49:49] Dean Nolen: Yeah. Embrace the scary. We've got to embrace it. We embrace the awkward. We embrace the messy as artists, as actors. You know, that's something parents can do. I think if people want more information after this interview, where would you send them? Do you want to send them to the website, social media? Where's the best place for to check out more information on Texas Tech's program?

[50:07] Dean Nolen: Certainly social media, certainly the website. All of our email addresses are listed on the website. If they have specific questions and they'd like to send an email, most happy to receive any kind of email question and I'll answer it. And that's that goes for any of our theater performance faculty. There are seven, eight of us, I think. So, yeah, you're about to just reach out, reach out, bring it. I'm happy. I love it. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate getting to chat with you.

[50:39] Charlie Murphy: Dean, it's such a pleasure. Thank you.

[50:48] Charlie Murphy: Yes, yes, yes. So fun to get to chat with Dean. I'm going to try to be quick today because I've got some packing to do, but I will just note we had another example in a recent string of virtual only showcases that were talked about. And, you know, the past couple of years of these different conversations about different showcases, we're talking about virtual only, we talk about the more traditional live showcase that has existed before. And then you've heard about a lot of these odd creative showcase ideas and all the different iterations of those. That has really kind of spawned this idea that I've had of a series that we're going to get into over the next few months, where I'm going to try to dive in and explore the different showcases and some different showcase types.

I'm not going to catch every different kind of possible iteration, but I'm going to try to give you a glimpse into how different schools might choose to run theirs, and we'll see exactly what that looks like. I'm not sure of the full scope of what that will ultimately be. I do have a few episodes prepped for it, but I think hopefully it'll be an interesting little slice of life and a little tidbit for it, just to kind of understand like what a showcase looks like in 2026. So more on that soon.

[51:56] Charlie Murphy: I'm going to do some really super quick hitters, which are just underlining things that we've talked about directly in previous takeaways. You will note another mention of the importance of raw talent as opposed to polish. We just say yes, yes, yes to that. You've been hearing that for five years on the pod. You'll note another version of telling students to let their freak flags fly, to embrace what makes them unique and special, and not to try to fit into a mold. Of course we know it's easier said than done. It's almost a cliché at this point how many times you've heard that advice, but I think it bears hearing and underlining again and again, as it is just so essential in the process of what it is to embrace what makes you unique and special.

And then we also had another mention about the timing of production. We've been hearing a couple of those recently, of like the excitement of doing productions immediately as a freshman, and that you've also heard me talk about the positives and negatives of that. Not so much negatives, but really just that I think families tend to overrate that as a necessity, but of course I do understand the allure and how exciting it would be to perform immediately freshman year. I get it. And then another quick hitter, which is just a clarification of the tech university question. I asked, what does it mean to be a tech university? Which is just mostly to say from my end, I wouldn't let that technicality, the idea of it being a tech university or that word throw you off.

I know I didn't get it into the interview, but I was going to say, you know, Carnegie Mellon started off as Carnegie Tech. You know, in our modern world of STEM becomes STEAM. I wouldn't be, for those who don't know, that's like science, technology. What's the E stand for in math? Engineering in math maybe now has the A of arts.

[53:28] Dean Nolen: Welcome to the show! I'm excited to dive into the unique aspects of Texas Tech University and what makes our program stand out.

[53:58] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely, Dean. Let's start with campus life. How does Texas Tech support the arts within its community?

[54:28] Dean Nolen: Texas Tech has a vibrant campus life that really embraces the arts. We have numerous student organizations, performance spaces, and events that encourage artistic expression. The community is very supportive, and students often collaborate across disciplines, which enriches their experience.

[54:58] Charlie Murphy: That sounds fantastic! Can you give us a glimpse into what a typical day looks like for a student at Texas Tech?

[55:28] Dean Nolen: Sure! A day in the life of a Texas Tech student can vary greatly depending on their focus. Generally, students might start their day with classes in acting, voice, or dance. After classes, they often have rehearsals for upcoming productions or workshops. Many students also engage in extracurricular activities, such as attending guest lectures or participating in student-led performances.

[55:38] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a well-rounded experience. How does Texas Tech emphasize the importance of "the work" for actors?

[55:48] Dean Nolen: We believe that the work is paramount. Our curriculum is designed to challenge students and push them to explore their craft deeply. We provide opportunities for students to work on various projects, from scene study to full productions, allowing them to hone their skills and develop their unique voices as artists.

[55:58] Charlie Murphy: That's great to hear! Can you elaborate on the concept of generosity as an actor and how it plays a role in your program?

[56:08] Dean Nolen: Generosity is essential in our training. We encourage students to be generous not only in their performances but also in their interactions with peers. This means being supportive, collaborative, and open to giving and receiving feedback. It fosters a positive environment where everyone can grow together.

[56:18] Charlie Murphy: I love that approach. It really emphasizes the community aspect of theater. How do you think this generosity translates to the stage?

[56:28] Dean Nolen: When actors are generous, it creates a more authentic and engaging performance. They are more willing to listen and respond to their scene partners, which leads to a richer storytelling experience. Audiences can feel that connection, and it elevates the overall production.

[56:38] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely! It sounds like Texas Tech is doing incredible work in shaping not just skilled actors but also compassionate artists.

[56:48] Dean Nolen: Thank you! We strive to create a nurturing environment where students can thrive both personally and artistically.

[56:58] Charlie Murphy: Before we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to share about Texas Tech University or the audition process for prospective students?

[57:08] Dean Nolen: I’d encourage prospective students to visit our campus and experience the energy for themselves. The audition process is designed to be welcoming, and we look for students who are passionate and eager to learn. We want to see their individuality and how they can contribute to our community.

[57:18] Charlie Murphy: That’s wonderful advice, Dean. Thank you for sharing your insights today!

[57:28] Dean Nolen: Thank you for having me, Charlie! It’s been a pleasure discussing Texas Tech and our program.

[57:38] Charlie Murphy: Likewise! If anyone has questions about the college audition process, they can reach out to us at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com.

[57:48] Dean Nolen: Absolutely! We’re here to help guide students on their journey.

[57:58] Charlie Murphy: Thanks again, Dean. We look forward to seeing the amazing talent coming out of Texas Tech!

[58:08] Dean Nolen: Thank you, Charlie!

[58:18] Charlie Murphy: And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We hope you found this episode helpful as you navigate your college audition journey.

[58:28] Dean Nolen: Best of luck to all the aspiring artists out there!

[58:38] Charlie Murphy: Until next time, take care!

[58:48] Dean Nolen: Bye!

[58:58] Charlie Murphy: Bye!

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