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[0:00] Jessica Rush: Stay tuned. This is Jessica Rush and Cara Cooper, and you're listening to Mamas Talkin' Loud. Our next guest is Celia Keenan-Bolger.

[0:30] Cara Cooper: Today we are talking with Celia Keenan-Bolger. You may know her from so many things: 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, Les Mis, Peter and the Starcatcher, Glass Menagerie, To Kill a Mockingbird, and basically anytime this woman steps on stage she gets a Tony nomination.

[0:54] Jessica Rush: She won, but what you may not know about Celia is that she's an incredible social activist. She was recently awarded the Michael Friedman Freedom Award from the ACLU. It's such a tongue twister. So we're going to talk a little bit about everything, but basically we're not worthy.

[1:17] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Oh my gosh, you are worthy. I'm so happy to be here.

[1:19] Jessica Rush: Thank you, friend.

[1:20] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Are you kidding?

[1:21] Cara Cooper: Okay, well, to kick it off, William is four and he started pre-K, right? How's that going?

[1:30] Celia Keenan-Bolger: It's funny. I feel like, I think before I had a kid, I was like, I'm just not going to really be the kind of mom. I feel like I had so many ideas about the kind of parent I would be, and I certainly never imagined being a parent that would have anxiety around my child going to school or anything or even like dropping him off at school.

[1:56] And I, it's just like one of the many ways that you're like, well, it turns out that's different than what I thought it was going to be. And I do think, you know, I, it started, I guess, two weeks ago and I was like, God, I'm feeling anxious. Like, what is that about? I was like, it's because it's William's first week of school.

[2:14] And there's just no way to really understand what that's all about, except that you take on, and you know, he was doing great. He wasn't even having a hard time, but there is just that space in your brain that's like, how is everybody doing? How are we all doing? That I feel like you can't really shut off.

[2:33] Cara Cooper: It's so hard. And it's not even for me. I know it's not even intellectual. It's like a physical response. Like my kids went off to school and I found myself heart racing, racing around the house. And my husband was like, what is wrong with you? And I was like, I don't know, but it just manifests in really different ways.

[2:49] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah. And I think there's something about those big transitions. It's made me think a lot about transitions in our life. Like the fact that we are actors and that we are so used to transition and, and being resilient and that unlike most professions, like we are constantly moving from one thing to another and how we've built up like really good muscles to do that. But how most of the world does not really have to do that and, and doesn't really like it, including my four year old son.

[3:18] He's like Marley into a transition. And, uh, and what that, how, how it's like sort of reflected back at me, how lucky I am, even though there's so much instability in what we do that I'm like, oh, but I actually am pretty good at bouncing from one thing to another.

[3:45] Cara Cooper: Correct. And that, um, I really hope that that's something that I can build in him. I mean, I think unfortunately it's like he doesn't have a choice. It is what it is.

[4:09] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Well, but it's so interesting because for us, a lot of changes occur because of our career, but for him, his life will remain pretty constant. The story of his life, he'll still go to school and unless you move or something large happens in his world, then his world will, will be very consistent.

[4:39] Cara Cooper: Right. He won't have that access to change as much as we do. Yeah. So it'd be interesting to see.

[4:49] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I think sometimes, you know, when this job ends, I'm about to finish on November 3rd and I'm like, what will that be for our family? Like usually with me and John, we'd be like, woo, now we can go out to dinner. But I was like, oh, that's going to be, that's like a transition inside of stability. It's like also why I think school actually is so good. And the summers where I feel like I remember being like, yes, the summer's here. And he was like, I am not that into the summer when it starts. I miss school.

[5:11] And I was like, who is this child? He's like, I miss my friends. I miss my teacher. And I was like, of all the things I've been planning for you being sad, school was over, was not one of them.

[5:21] Cara Cooper: Well, I think part of that too, he's still so young and the structure is still such an important part of, of his growth that that probably is part of it too. Meanwhile, maybe only a year makes a difference because my child was all about the summer. Elliot was like, woohoo, no more school. Let's go do all the things. And we lived it up. So, you know, maybe a year away.

[5:49] Celia Keenan-Bolger: That's right. And then it'll be a whole new world. But each kid is different, you know, like that might just be who he is, right? Geared towards structure that and help it to grow and say, you can be an engineer.

[6:15] Cara Cooper: It's funny that you touched on kind of that transition is such a part of our life. I think that that is one of the skills that being a person in the theater, who then becomes a mom, that is incredibly useful. But you kind of already have that talent to like, oh, this isn't working. Okay, let's change it up. Or I have to go get a job because I didn't get that Broadway gig. So I need to, you know, make ends meet.

[6:49] Celia Keenan-Bolger: There's like a problem solving nature to what we do. That's kind of innately in us. And I think that that helped, certainly helped me when I became a mom, just be like, okay, we're gonna figure this out.

[7:01] Cara Cooper: Yeah, I feel like we have better tools than most.

[7:15] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, slightly. I mean, there's plenty of other things.

[7:45] Cara Cooper: And I was just so lucky. I was so lucky that I'm your friend. I was such a proud friend.

[7:46] Celia Keenan-Bolger: It was one of those moments where it's like, Oh, my God, I'm, I'm that person's friend. But also like, I'm super jelly. But it's just so amazing. But how has it been? Can you speak to us a little bit about telling the story in the time that we're living in right now? And how that's affected you or hasn't and what it's meant for you on the journey of, of bringing Scout to life?

[8:11] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Um, this experience, I have a feeling, when I look back on this time doing To Kill a Mockingbird, I'm going to be like, how did I do that? And of course, when you're in the middle of it, you're like, this is just what we do. And I think one of the things that has been so gratifying about it is that in these sort of chaotic times, it feels hard to know where to put our energy.

[8:38] And for me, like, I don't have quite enough energy to be fighting the good fight all the time or consuming all of the news that I should be consuming or like out in the streets or and that without sounding too precious, I do feel like performing in this play is a tiny act of resistance and also a sort of unifier that I think what's so incredible about the book and and also about Aaron's adaptation is that it actually sort of, I think it, it extends this hope, and maybe even like call to arms that we engage with one another and are decent and are and are seeing there's that line that's like, you know, you can never really understand a person unless you walk around in his skin.

[9:35] And that I think being with 1400 people every night, some of whom I know did not vote for Hillary Clinton, and who are experiencing the play very similarly to the people who did. And, and there aren't that many spaces, I think, maybe outside of church for a lot of people from different backgrounds to come together and process.

[9:54] Celia Keenan-Bolger: It's meaningful to me and to sort of be the little conduit between the audience and the play and to sort of try to take everybody through that. And on the flip side of that. I have also felt just so depleted both by the events in our nation, and by the rigors of being the sort of motor of this play.

[10:42] And there have been times within that, that I felt like I just don't know where this is going to come from like I don't know how I'm going to do this, and I remember reading there's this really amazing commencement speech that Nora Ephron gave in 1996, a very long time ago. And I remember she's like, Look, you can have it all. But don't. I'm here to tell you, it's going to be so hard. So don't ever say that nobody said it was going to be hard.

[11:12] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And I feel like I have just held that in my heart where I was like if I zoomed out to being a young woman growing up in Detroit and I, I knew that I was going to have a family and that I was going to be on the lead and a Broadway play that I cared about. And then I was going to win the biggest award that I could that was available. Like I wouldn't have believed in my life. But I also think what I couldn't have told that little person is like you will suffer for it. It will require so much of you, and you will feel deficient at every turn.

[11:43] And I think that is the sort of the working mother, particularly the working mother on Broadway. I think for so long, it was like just don't talk about it, like that we I'm like standing on the shoulders of so many women who just like shut up and do it did it. And I'm so grateful to people like Audra and Kelly who have who are Audra McDonald, Kelly O'Hara, Broadway, you know who we're talking about.

[12:12] That they were like visible with their both their struggles and just just not even their struggles just their motherhood that they were like we are mothers and and we are here and that I feel like they sort of open the door for the rest of us as did all of these other women from previous generations who just work their asses off and never said a thing about it for us to be able to say like we're doing it. And also it's incredible and also it is very, very difficult.

[12:42] Cara Cooper: And I can imagine the exhaustion that you feel like I know I know how I feel what I'm doing eight shows a week and I'm not carrying To Kill a Mockingbird on my shoulders, you know, and like, so when you wake up at 630 in the morning and you get William to school, and like you do your whole day and then at 630 at night 12 hours later you say, All right, buddy, see you tomorrow and then you go and then you have to do your job.

[12:46] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, job job and all these people who have paid all the money and all the things and they're relying on you and there is so much pressure in that. And I think, you know, for a long time, there really weren't many mothers in our business at all. It was either you have kids and you leave the business, or you decide I'm not going to have children and all. And I'm, that's the sacrifice I'm going to make if that is for some sacrifice, but yeah.

[13:07] Celia Keenan-Bolger: It's such an interesting time we're in now that I feel like there are so many of us and it's empowering and it feels amazing to know that we have this community and that we can speak up and stand up and say we are here, our families matter. You know, all those dads who've been working for years, it wasn't a big deal, you know? It's like, but we are here and times they've got to change a little bit. Yeah, I think it's also, it's that, um, it's hard when you're living your dream that you feel like I can't, there's no space for me to be cranky or for me to be exhausted or that, you know, I will say like in my head I'm like, you know, it's not a musical. Like it could be a musical that would be even worse.

Why are you so tired? And that we sort of tell these stories to ourselves that are like, you know, you should just be grateful because true, I mean, and the truth is I am, but two things can exist at once. Yes, and that I think it's hard sometimes, especially, you know, in our community that nobody ever wants to complain about having a job. And yet I think I am making peace with the fact that, you know, again, like both things can be true. You can be grateful to have a job and you can also be dog-ass tired. Absolutely. Feeling free enough to say it is half the battle, right? Is not living like so many women did for so long, not talking about how hard it was, just putting their nose to the grindstone, maybe hiding the fact that they were mothers. You know, whatever it was that whatever it took for them to be successful or to survive. And there's a lot of freedom in being able to talk about how hard it is.

[14:50] Cara Cooper: Yeah. Um, in saying that, what are your coping mechanisms? Like what is it that you do when you are, you know, in the dregs and feeling like how can I possibly either do the show tonight or sometimes take care of my child? Like this is so hard. I've got nothing left in the tank. You know, what is it that you do to help yourself?

[15:04] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I mean, therapy. I feel like I, like truly, I think what my therapy, the thing that I carry with me that I'm still, it will be life's work, but that this idea that I'm not accomplishing all of the things in the way that I want to accomplish them, that I feel deficient as a mother, I feel deficient as an actor, that I'm just like I could, if I just had a little more space or a little more time, I could, I could have more energy. I could be, you know, and I think changing your brain and saying this is what I have and that the punishment around that only leads to suffering and that I'm doing the best that I can and that I have to leave it there. So that's like a huge part. I remember I go to acupuncture.

There's an amazing place on 31st street that takes our insurance and my acupuncturist was like, look, you only have a hundred percent of yourself. Like you don't have 110, you don't have 120. So you have a percentage that's going to work and you have a percentage that's going to your family and there has to be a percentage that goes to you. And I think unfortunately what ends up happening is that it feels selfish to take the time away from your work and your family because both of those things get so much of your attention, but also you're constantly feeling like they don't get quite enough of your attention so that there's just not enough left for you. And it's like so cliched, but that thing about the oxygen mask is so real that it's like if you don't have that mask on, nobody's getting saved. Nobody's getting the help.

[16:50] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Well, I think I find when I'm on a show schedule, it's like any extra time I have, I want to be available to Elliot and to Eric, to my husband. I want to be available to my family to spend time with them because I know I'm not there for dinner and bedtime and bath time. And so, but then that little extra time that I have would be the time I could do self-care or go to the gym or work out. And so I do find, and I'm sure we all struggle with this, that you put yourself on the back burner unless you make a very conscious effort to say I have to do this. Yeah, I have to take this hour to myself. But that is hard.

[17:32] Cara Cooper: It is, and it's always changing. I think that's what's also hard. It's like what used to work for me at the beginning of the run halfway through like stopped working where I was like I can't exercise the way that I used to because I'm so fucking tired and exercising for the first time has like only made me more exhausted. So I was like, okay, now I have to cut that out and figure out like a different kind of just like the old lady and restorative yoga, like living my best life, whatever, trying to restore my body and like get some naps or something. And that like seeing friends for a long time was like a huge form of self-care. And then halfway through the run, three quarters of the way through the run, I was like I need to just shut up and read a book and lie in a bed.

But it's so hard until you sort of get to a breaking point, I think, to make those decisions for yourself. Like, and I think I'm pretty good at listening to my body and listening to myself, but I along this year, I have lost track of myself and that I feel like it has been harder and harder to receive the cues that are just like what you actually need is to like have almost nothing going on during your day and like go to therapy, go to acupuncture, do a little bit of exercise, take your, like wake up with your child, take him to school and then like see what the day brings. Like get outside, always get outside even if it's bad. But you know, that's been a, that has been a really interesting thing this year.

[19:09] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I think what you touched on too in the mental state of it all is that knowing we place such super high expectations on ourselves and being able to lower that bar a little bit and know that not everything is going to be exactly as we hoped or predicted or expected. Um, I think you were talking about all the things, self-care, going to the gym, all that, and those are all things that I do, but I find the biggest thing that I have to do is literally just say it's okay. Like, okay, so you forgot to send in this paper with Elan to school today or you didn't have the time to make that phone call. Like I'm one of those people that at the end of the day take stock of everything I have or have not accomplished. And for me, like just hearing you say that it's okay, it's okay to be like, okay, I can do that tomorrow, you know? And that's all right instead of going to bed and being like, okay, didn't do all those things that I meant to do today.

[20:09] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And I think like part of my initial extreme discomfort in motherhood was that I was such, part of my identity was being a productive person, that I valued my productivity and that those first six months where I was like all I'm doing is keeping this baby alive and I'm like kind of bored and also kind of sad and in mourning for my life and not productive at all. And yet the most productive, but keeping a human alive. Like, and that, that huge shift, I think like your worth is not based on your productivity, especially as a mother. It's like, it's just, it cannot be about that because you will run yourself into the ground. And I think sort of, I mean, again, life's work, friends, life's work, but that, you know, instead of the ticker tape at the end of the day going through like all of the have-nots and like what I didn't accomplish, it's just like, and I've even taken now to being like if I mail a letter of saying to myself like good work, like that was something you did today, cross it off the list.

And that it's like, and like that positive encouragement can try to sort of balance out the negative thoughts that are coming in and out of like why isn't this getting done, why isn't this getting done, why isn't this getting done?

[21:33] Cara Cooper: For sure, for sure. Right. I do find when I'm being creative that I'm able to let that stuff fall by the wayside a little bit more because I'd have that outlet to feel productive and feel like I'm putting something out in the world, whatever that may be.

[21:44] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, and I find when I'm not working on something that I get really tied up in the minutiae of everything because that's where I find my self-worth. Yeah, you know.

[21:56] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Well, and the good news is there is an end date. Yeah, yeah. So that's, that's such, that's something that's really lovely unless you're in, you know, a long-running government show basically. You know, it's like, you know, there will come a time where this is over and you will have some time again and hopefully have a moment to, you know, a few weeks or whatever, yeah, to, or months to just breathe and live life and find yourself again. Yeah, because I know that is so important.

[22:24] Celia Keenan-Bolger: It is, that recharging the batteries. I feel like it's so, I've never been so good of like not knowing what the next job is and I feel like one of the amazing things that Tony Award did was like get me a lot of job offers in the theater. And in my guts, I was like, I can't do another theater job for six months. Good for you. And I mean, that's like a, that's a huge thing, but good for you.

[22:46] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Well, and we'll see, you know, January and I'm gonna be like you guys, I usually make it three weeks and then I'm like, okay, okay, I'm ready now. But it is, I mean, I think this one I understand just like what it required and what it required of my family that I'm like I need to like at least have two months where I'm not even auditioning, where I'm just like hanging out and being with my family so that the time comes again when I'm hungry because right now I'm not even, I don't even have like the fire in my belly.

[23:17] Cara Cooper: Yeah, you're like burnout. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard. And then there's that emotion too, the connection of when you're burnout and not hungry for the thing that drove you for so, yes, that you do at least for myself, it's such a huge part of my identity and it's like what does that mean? Yes, exactly. What does that mean? Which is also terrifying. Who am I now? Okay, if I'm not driving forward wanting more of that and I'm ready to just sort of hang for a second and that's okay because the priorities have shifted, right? Like William is, William is your priority, you know, as a mother that is what happens as, and yes, we love our husbands and they're great and their priorities too, but I find that, you know, especially our children are all relatively small so.

[24:04] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, yeah, they still are super vulnerable and they're super, you know, yeah, little ones. They need, I think also there was, I had a moment sort of post Tony's where I was so exhausted and I had a real crisis because I was like this is everything that you have sort of wanted and if you, if you want all of this, then this is what is required, like this level of output. And so what does that mean? Because I'm not capable of sustaining this. So what does that say about me as an artist? What does that say about me as an ambitious person? And I think that's when you can sort of zoom out and say like this is only for now, like this feeling of exhaustion or this feeling of whatever it is, like it will change.

Like that and that's another amazing and difficult thing about motherhood. It's like the only thing you can count on is that it's going to change. Yeah, and like both inside of your motherhood life and outside that, you know, that that's gonna, yeah, we're gonna keep, you know, having to experience that and reinvent.

[25:09] Cara Cooper: Well, speaking of being a mother and just sort of with the show, we're sort of, you know, switch a little gear a bit and talk about your social activism because it's something you touched on with in your Tony speech. You're talking about your upbringing and your mom and what she instilled in you and it sort of seems like it's, you know, part of your DNA, like who you are is a social activist in a lot of ways. And I know you feel very passionately about things and you march and you speak up and could you really, could you speak to us a little bit about how becoming a mother has maybe shifted that or made it stronger or, you know, where you're at with that?

[25:53] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I remember I read some study that was speaking to young women who were activists who were like much more powerful than myself, that their whole lives had been dedicated to activism and every single one of them had mothers who brought them up with some thread of activism in their lives. And I was like, oh, that's why I am the way that I am.

[26:15] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I can trace it right back to my own mother. And it wasn't even so much about different causes, or, I mean, there were causes that we had growing up, but that there was engagement, and that I was dragged to all the protests that my poor son is being dragged to, and that we would go to boycotts, and we would march in Labor Day parades, and we consumed a lot of culture and art that had a message. I mean, To Kill a Mockingbird was a really important book in my house growing up. But I think then having a son, and particularly having a son has been so interesting in these times of talking about toxic masculinity, and in some ways I actually think there are more tools about raising a girl right now.

I feel there are things that I will clock on the street that I'm like, oh, I'm glad I don't have a little girl to have to explain that away. But I also think a huge part of what our problem as a society is are the way that we raise our boys and the messages that boys receive, and just sort of societally, and the patriarchy, and that I think about that so much, of the sensitivity of my son right now, and how open he is to the world, and how that's going to just, how to preserve that and give him the tools to sort of hold on to that in a society that basically says this is wrong. Sensitivity equals weakness, and that anger and sort of the fighting back is your only tool. And so honestly, that, I mean, I think he's going to be, he's going to be, you know, he understands now, I think, a lot about just showing up, whether or not that has any resonance of like where we're going.

I mean, he's been to so many marches at this point. But like the other day, his babysitter picked him up from school, and they were making like rules for their class, and she was like, William, do you want to tell your mom what your rule was? And his rule was, we have to make sure to try to take care of everybody in the whole entire world. And I was like, okay, well, you know what? I feel like they're on some level, we're at least have some building block, which I was like, this is so sweet. And he also, I mean, this is another like sidebar. This was at the beginning of school last week where he was like, I was like, you know, how are you feeling about going to school? And he was like, I feel, I feel left out at school.

And I was like, in both ways, I was like, my heart, I've never been more proud that I have a child that can verbalize the feeling of being left out. And also my heart is breaking into a million pieces that I was like, oh my God, welcome to the world, that terrible, terrible feeling. But I think, you know, it's, I do, it doesn't even have to be your own child, but I think engaging, like bringing kids into the fold, even if they're not, if it's like acts of service in a soup kitchen, if it's having a bake sale for separated families, if it's marching in a protest, like everybody has their different things. Like it doesn't all have to be the same thing, but just engaging them from the time that they're young, that has been the thing that has, it's not even really a choice.

It feels like part of your responsibility as an adult. And I only have my parents to thank for that. Like that was just how they operated. I was remembering that in Detroit, they didn't have recycling, like there was no curbside recycling. And so my parents would like collect recyclables in our garage and then we would like haul them and sort them into like bags and like take them like 35 minutes away and like take them to the recycling center. And I was like, at the time I was, I was like, this is a pain in the ass, but I didn't see it as anything other than what it was. And like looking back, I was like, oh, that was like a, that was a big deal. It was, and it was like not convenient. And particularly since they had three kids, they had other things that they could have been dealing with, but they were like, we make this a priority.

And so, you know, we can all just like choose those little things that we decide to engage with. And I really think that's the thing for me because there's so much to fret about, but it also, it's like, we don't have the luxury of being pessimistic because we have kids. And so it's like, all right, what do I choose for my child and for my family that is important? And it can only be one thing because sometimes it's too overwhelming to engage with all of it. But if you just choose one thing and you as a family are like, and you know, we have like a little, like what are our family values? Like we are a family who takes care of other people, who, and that sort of language is I think also helpful in just trying to be like, I'm raising, I'm trying to raise a good citizen.

[31:34] Cara Cooper: When you were talking about raising a boy, it hit me so hard. My little guy is gonna be three in like a month and he's so, like you said, just so open and so emotional. And I find myself trying not to say things like, this is not something to cry about, you know, because I'm trying to teach him that, you know, if you don't get the right color crayon, that is not something to cry about. But I don't want to instill in him a fear of being emotional. And it's fascinating because I have a girl and a boy and I mean, women have a reputation for being emotional. My son is far more emotional than my daughter has ever been. And it's just fascinating. And I struggle with the same thing. Like, how can I keep you in this place where you are allowed to express how wonderful and exciting and difficult life is all at the same time? Do you know what I always think to myself? Well, how would you treat him if he was a girl?

[32:37] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, that's a really good. Because I'm like, I want a really strong, stand up for herself, like, fierce little girl who also is in touch with her feelings. And I was like, so just treat him like a girl.

[32:49] Cara Cooper: That's wonderful advice. Especially when he's asking, this is a silly story, it's a sidebar, which we may edit out later. But he has this new Thomas the train bike. And his thing is, he'll ride it down the street. He's like, Mom, my pretty, pretty dress is down there. Let's go get it. And he rides his bike all the way to pretend pretty, pretty dress. And I'm like, you look great. And he's just so excited. And I don't want any kid in our neighborhood to say anything to him. Like, I feel like my mama bear claws are going to come out in the most unattractive way if it happens.

[33:26] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Well, and it's crazy, too, how things, because I've been really aware, you know, with Elliot, she's a girl. And so raising her is a whole different ballgame. But I've noticed since she started, when I was in pre-K last year and kindergarten this year, she'll make comments about, well, that's not for boys. And I'm like, wait, boys can't wear pink. I said, since when? I was like, anybody can wear any color they want to wear. It's just so interesting that they pick up on all these things. I mean, I literally didn't buy her anything pink.

[34:02] Cara Cooper: You didn't.

[34:04] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I didn't. For like a solid year. I was very gender neutral, a lot of grays, and things like this. And pink was her favorite color. I don't even know how it happened. And now it's all pink. But it's interesting to see what just from, you know, their environment and who they're around and what they hear and what they start to pick up and how they'll say things and you want to squash it. You know, it's like, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. We can, anyone can wear whatever they want. And, you know, because boys can't wear, she saw someone wearing a kilt. Boys can't wear a skirt. Well, yes, they can. Actually, they can. I mean, we cannot avoid our children going to school and picking up all kinds of messages that are different from what our family, you know.

[34:40] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Exactly. But that's also part of why I'm so grateful for this community that we have, this like Broadway mother community where I think we are all so different. And I think we probably even have, you know, different parenting philosophies. But I do feel like the inclusivity and the openness with which everybody engages and is supportive of one another is such a huge part of what has like supported me as a parent in these early years. And I think, you know, just posting questions, like when people are like, what do I do about this? The thoughtfulness of the answers and the way that we engage, I have been so moved by and not surprised, but it is, it feels like such a home to have, to have this space where we can go to each other and say, like, I am really struggling over here. Or like, what do I do about this?

[36:00] Cara Cooper: It's so funny you bring that up. I've had people ask me, as administrators of the group, they're like, is it hard? Do you have to like, you know, step in a lot and shut people down or, you know, turn comments off? And I say, never. Never have we ever had to do that. People behave with such kindness and mindfulness. I mean, it's not hard. It's incredible, so.

[36:20] Celia Keenan-Bolger: It runs itself, basically.

[36:22] Cara Cooper: Which is awesome. Do you feel okay talking about what happened at the theater a couple months ago now?

[36:26] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, of course. Yeah, it was at the beginning of August and it was right, it was the same weekend, so El Paso and then Dayton, those shootings happened and then we went back to the show on a Tuesday and we got through the entire show and in my last monologue towards the end, there was like, it sounded like something was going on in Shubert Alley where I was, and that's not an uncommon occurrence, but there was suddenly like a lot of banging and screaming on the doors and I was like, this sounds not right. And a bunch of people ran into the theater, I think through the box office, it was so close to the end that the box office doors were open and ready to let everybody out of the theater and ran into the theater screaming that there was a shooter in Times Square, which then of course made the audience panic.

And it was like a, I don't even know how long I was on stage to sort of absorb all of it, but at a certain point we all ran off stage. And then there were like three minutes where we were just sort of waiting to figure out what was going on off stage. And then they were able to say like it actually wasn't, there was no shooter, there was just a motorcycle that backfired, but I think probably it was a lot of tourists that were like, we're in the United States of America and if I hear those noises I assume that this is what's happening. And so we had like ten more minutes to just be on lockdown and then we didn't finish the show and we went home. And I think I was probably just sort of in shock.

I didn't freak out, I didn't like I didn't really know what to process, but I got home and like talked to my husband and then went to bed and then had to do a matinee the next Wednesday. And was very jittery on stage and just a little like what's happening in the audience, like any flashlights or noises, I was just a little bit. And then we got to like ten minutes before the end of the play and I started feeling like all, like I was going to just burst into tears where I was like, I don't want to finish the show, I don't want to keep going on with this. And it was very, very difficult and it happened again, you know we had to do the show again Wednesday night and it was really, really awful and I think the truth is like we were at that point in the run where I was already pretty depleted and then that event sort of wiped out my reserves like what I was sort of depending on to get me through the end of the run and like the next three weeks I experienced a sort of like PTSD and exhaustion unlike anything I have ever experienced before and I think because I didn't like to lose it at the event and because the event actually ended up not being anything it was very hard.

[39:21] Jessica Rush: Welcome back to Mamas Talkin' Loud. We are so excited to have you with us today as we continue our conversation about taking care of one another and ourselves.

[39:51] Cara Cooper: Yes, absolutely! It's such an important topic, especially as we navigate the challenges of motherhood and the arts.

[40:21] Jessica Rush: And we want to remind everyone that it's okay to prioritize your own needs while also being there for your family and community.

[40:26] Cara Cooper: Exactly! It's a balancing act, and sometimes it feels impossible, but we have to remember that self-care is not selfish.

[40:31] Jessica Rush: Right! And speaking of self-care, we have some amazing guests lined up this season who will share their stories and insights on this very topic.

[40:36] Cara Cooper: Yes! We’re looking forward to hearing from them and learning how they manage to take care of themselves while also being incredible moms.

[40:41] Jessica Rush: So, let's dive in!

[40:46] Cara Cooper: Today, we want to talk about the importance of community support and how we can uplift each other as mothers.

[40:56] Jessica Rush: Absolutely! Having a strong support system can make all the difference in our parenting journeys.

[41:01] Cara Cooper: And it’s not just about having friends or family nearby; it’s about creating a network of support that understands the unique challenges we face.

[41:06] Jessica Rush: Yes! And that’s why we’re so passionate about building this community through our podcast.

[41:11] Cara Cooper: We want to create a space where moms can feel heard, supported, and empowered.

[41:16] Jessica Rush: And we hope that our listeners feel that too!

[41:21] Cara Cooper: So, let’s talk about some practical ways we can take care of ourselves while also supporting one another.

[41:26] Jessica Rush: Great idea! One thing that has helped me is setting aside time for myself, even if it’s just a few minutes a day.

[41:31] Cara Cooper: Yes! Those small moments can really recharge our batteries.

[41:36] Jessica Rush: And it’s important to communicate our needs to our partners and families.

[41:41] Cara Cooper: Absolutely! Open communication is key to ensuring that everyone is on the same page.

[41:46] Jessica Rush: And don’t forget to ask for help when you need it!

[41:51] Cara Cooper: Yes! It’s okay to lean on others, whether it’s friends, family, or even fellow moms.

[41:56] Jessica Rush: We’re all in this together, and we can lift each other up.

[42:01] Cara Cooper: So true! And we want to hear from our listeners about how they practice self-care and support one another.

[42:06] Jessica Rush: Yes! Please reach out to us on social media and share your stories.

[42:11] Cara Cooper: We love connecting with you and learning from your experiences.

[42:16] Jessica Rush: And remember, it’s okay to take a break and focus on yourself.

[42:21] Cara Cooper: Definitely! Self-care is essential for our well-being and for being the best moms we can be.

[42:26] Jessica Rush: So, let’s keep this conversation going and continue to support one another.

[42:31] Cara Cooper: Yes! We’re excited for what’s to come this season.

[42:36] Jessica Rush: Thank you for joining us today on Mamas Talkin' Loud.

[42:41] Cara Cooper: We appreciate you, and we’ll see you next time!

[42:46] Jessica Rush: Bye for now!

[42:51] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[42:56] Jessica Rush: Take care!

[43:01] Cara Cooper: And remember to take care of yourselves!

[43:06] Jessica Rush: Yes, absolutely!

[43:11] Cara Cooper: Until next time!

[43:16] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[43:21] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[43:26] Jessica Rush: Take care!

[43:31] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[43:36] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[43:41] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[43:46] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[43:51] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[43:56] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[44:01] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[44:06] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[44:11] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[44:16] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[44:21] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[44:26] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[44:31] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[44:36] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[44:41] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[44:46] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[44:51] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[44:56] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[45:01] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[45:06] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[45:11] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[45:16] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[45:21] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[45:26] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[45:31] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[45:36] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[45:41] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[45:46] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[45:51] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[45:56] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[46:01] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[46:06] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[46:11] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[46:16] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[46:21] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[46:26] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[46:31] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[46:36] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[46:41] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[46:46] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[46:51] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[46:56] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[47:01] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[47:06] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[47:11] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[47:16] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[47:21] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[47:26] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[47:31] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[47:36] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[47:41] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[47:46] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[47:51] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[47:56] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[48:01] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[48:06] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[48:11] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[48:16] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[48:21] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[48:26] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[48:31] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[48:36] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[48:41] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[48:46] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[48:51] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[48:56] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[49:01] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[49:06] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[49:11] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[49:16] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[49:21] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[49:27] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[49:31] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[49:36] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[49:41] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[49:46] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[49:51] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[49:56] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[50:01] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[50:06] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[50:12] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[50:19] Jessica Rush: Bye!

[50:27] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[50:32] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[51:02] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[51:33] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[51:39] Cara Cooper: Bye!

[52:02] www.mamastalkinloud.com