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[0:00] Robert Schneider: Hi, I’m Robert Schneider and welcome to Fifty Key Stage Musicals: The Podcast, a companion piece to the Routledge Press publication Fifty Key Stage Musicals, which is available for purchase by going to Routledge.com or clicking the link below in today’s show description. Today’s episode focuses on Chapter 50, the 2016 production of Dear Evan Hansen, and with us today is the author of that chapter, Frederick D. Miller.

[0:38] Robert Schneider: A dramaturg, Mr. Miller's work focuses on 20th and 21st century American theater. His work has informed productions of Angels in America, A Little Night Music, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Caroline or Change. He is the regional recipient and national semifinalist for the 2020 KCACTF Award for Outstanding Dramaturgy and a project associate for the #HereToo Project, which amplifies youth activists’ voices through performance. An advocate for theater education, Mr. Miller is a frequent teaching artist with high schools and theaters in the central Pennsylvania region. Frederick, it is so nice to have you join us today.

[1:14] Frederick D. Miller: Thank you for having me, Rob.

[1:16] Robert Schneider: So my first question for you is what makes Dear Evan Hansen a key musical?

[1:22] Frederick D. Miller: Dear Evan Hansen arrived at a time when social media was really becoming the forefront of everyone's consciousness, and the producers were aware of that, and they used that in both the marketing and in the storyline. It's really the first musical that we see use that strategy to market their show, using social media as both the character in the show, but also outside of the show.

[1:46] Robert Schneider: Why did you want to codify the history of this particular show?

[1:52] Frederick D. Miller: To be perfectly honest, because of my age, I'm 21 years old. I was 16 when the musical came out on Broadway. This musical is so near and dear to my heart. I believe, maybe not for everyone in my generation, but for me specifically, this was my Rent. This was my Spring Awakening. This was the musical that I listened to on repeat, the original cast album. So I feel a really big connection to the piece.

[2:15] Robert Schneider: What was it specifically about this show that you felt spoke to you at that particular age?

[2:22] Frederick D. Miller: It was really the idea of being an outsider, being someone that doesn't necessarily feel like they fit in with the norm. I think a lot of theater kids feel that way at one point or another in their high school experience. Being in the school musical isn't always the coolest thing to do. I really related to the idea of Evan Hansen being on the outside looking in. I felt seen, honestly, watching this musical, not to steal the tagline from the show, but it felt like an authentic depiction of the struggles of being someone who doesn't always feel like they fit in. I think that's something that translates to all generations, not just high schoolers.

[3:09] Robert Schneider: Do you feel that something like Dear Evan Hansen will be performed 20 or 30 years from now with the same impact?

[3:18] Frederick D. Miller: That's hard to say. I think this musical arrived at a time when social media was really beginning to impact our lives. I don't know where we'll be in, say, 20, 30 years. Will it have the same impact, or will it really feel like a product of its time? I think the themes of feeling isolated and shut off from society will always be relevant, but the necessary details of how social media impacts us, I don't know how that will read, and I'm excited to find out.

[3:45] Robert Schneider: One of the things I found so fascinating about your chapter is that you discuss a character in Dear Evan Hansen that's not tangible, that's not an actual human being, and that's the character of social media. Could we say Dear Evan Hansen is really the first musical to use social media as a springboard for the dramatic events that happened in the play?

[4:09] Frederick D. Miller: Thinking about the musicals that have come before this that used social media in some form of their production, it was really just for marketing purposes. We see Next to Normal being the first show that has a Twitter account, Hamilton using Ham for Ham, broadcasting those concerts outside their stage door, but Dear Evan Hansen really is the first one to have social media as a character, and I think that's just because it was responding to the time in which it was created. Before this, social media wasn't really that big a part of our lives, but it was getting there.

[4:45] Robert Schneider: How does Dear Evan Hansen use social media, which once again is not a literal person, it's not a character that personifies it, how do they use it throughout the show to keep the audience present of social media?

[4:57] Frederick D. Miller: Sure. It's really through their design elements that it becomes an apparent figure in the show. The minute you walk into the Music Box Theater, you're enveloped in this cacophony of sounds of notifications going off, Facebook messages, Snapchats, and the projection design is just engrossing you. Then once the show starts, you have all of these characters constantly surrounded by these projection screens. It feels like this superficial presence on stage that is just their world. This is the world that these characters live in. They're surrounded by social media, the constant connection, which then makes it interesting because Evan feels so isolated in this world that appears to be so connected with everyone.

[5:47] Robert Schneider: Can you tell us a little bit about the origins of how Dear Evan Hansen came to be? It's an anomaly in American musical theater, which is it's based on nothing. It's an original story. How did this idea even come to fruition?

[6:06] Frederick D. Miller: The idea for Dear Evan Hansen originated from a personal event in Benj Pasek's life. A classmate in high school had committed suicide. In the days following, people started saying, oh, I have this attachment with this person. They were really close to me. They meant this to me, XYZ. Even Benj Pasek admits to doing that himself. I talk about it in the chapter. The two of them thought that it would be an interesting idea to how would that exist in a musical setting. This original idea based on a true event that happened then became the basis for this musical. Stacey Mindich heard their idea and went with it. That's how Dear Evan Hansen came to be. It originally started out as a cynical idea, cynical commentary on human nature and how we tend to make things seem more than what they actually were.

Then when social media, as they're writing this, social media is, of course, growing. Pinterest, Facebook, Twitter, all of these social media sites are popping up in the late 2000s, early 2010s. Then it became, oh, well, how does social media exacerbate this? That is how we arrived at social media becoming such an apparent character in Dear Evan Hansen because they were responding to the time in which the show was being created.

[7:38] Frederick D. Miller: Teenage musicals are a relatively new genre in musical theater because we have children's musicals with something like Annie or we have something like musicals for young female identifying tweens, something like Wicked. What exactly is a teenage musical and what is it trying to get across to its audience?

[7:56] Frederick D. Miller: Teenagers were in musicals, but they were only in musicals to be made fun of. We have Grease and Bye Bye Birdie where it's showing high school life, but it's kind of making fun of it. The parents are the ones that are the authority figures and have all the common sense. Meanwhile, their kids are running around amok. Then you get into the 2000s and a piece like Spring Awakening occurs where the kids, high schoolers, students, whatever, they have autonomy and it's the adults that are the ones that are kind of standing in the way of them exploring their identities and growing up. I think Spring Awakening paved a big way for a show like Dear Evan Hansen to occur. Then you kind of get a mix of it both with Dear Evan Hansen where you have the high schoolers and you see their parents and they're both in communication with each other. I think that's why this musical hits the family dynamic so much harder than probably past musicals that deal with the family dynamic because it's giving autonomy and voice to both sides.

[9:00] Robert Schneider: Then would you make a case that maybe Dear Evan Hansen is not necessarily classified as a teenage musical but a family musical?

[9:06] Frederick D. Miller: Absolutely. I remember going to see the show on a high school trip and there was not a dry eye in the theater after the end of Act 1 with You Will Be Found. It was hitting people in different ways. The parents that were the chaperones on the trip were crying because they felt Larry Murphy's tears at the end of You Will Be Found. Meanwhile, people my generation are feeling the tears of Zoe Murphy crying about her brother and clinging to Evan. It's hitting differently for every single person but it is hitting them for a very specific reason.

[9:43] Robert Schneider: This idea of You Will Be Found, which I know that you know a lot about the social media aspects of how this phrase became a marketing tool and is now in the cultural lexicon. Can you tell us a little bit about how this show was marketed to audiences from inception to what we now have in movies?

[10:04] Frederick D. Miller: It's really interesting how big it has become as part of the marketing scheme when it didn't really come into fruition until Off-Broadway. Arena Stage, there was a different song called A Part of Me, I believe, at the end of Act 1 and they cut it because it felt a little too down to end the first act with and there wasn't really anything going. It wasn't going anywhere. When they got to Off-Broadway, they decided to swap it out with You Will Be Found and this song about, you know, even when the dark comes crashing through, there'll be a hand there to help you. I'm butchering the lyrics but this idea that you will, there's always someone there. You need only reach out your hand and someone will grab you and help you along the way.

That's a really inspiring message and Stacey Mindich knew that and so Hashtag You Will Be Found became the marketing idea of, oh, Hashtag You Will Be Found. Let's slap a picture on Twitter with a production still or fans holding up pieces of paper saying, Hashtag You Will Be Found. It forms a community and that's how they decided that there's something here. This is drawing people in and there was a huge campaign from Off-Broadway onto Broadway to have fans submit pictures of them holding up Hashtag You Will Be Found written on a piece of paper and then those became part of the marketing campaigns. You had posters all over social media in New York, everywhere of these fans holding these papers and so they felt like they had a part of the show as well. They were along the way.

[11:48] Robert Schneider: What do you think the writers are trying to say about social media? Is it a good thing?

[11:53] Andrew Child: Welcome to the final chapter of Fifty Key Stage Musicals: The Podcast. Today, we’re diving into the groundbreaking musical, Dear Evan Hansen.

[12:23] Robert W. Schneider: Dear Evan Hansen, with music and lyrics by Benj Pasek and Justin Paul, and a book by Steven Levenson, opened on November 14, 2016. It has since made a significant impact on the landscape of musical theatre.

[12:53] Andrew Child: The story follows Evan Hansen, a high school student grappling with issues of self-acceptance and peer relationships. When a classmate takes his own life, Evan fabricates a friendship with him, leading to unforeseen consequences.

[13:23] Robert W. Schneider: The production was revolutionary in its approach to connecting with young audiences. Producer Stacey Mindich made recordings available to the public early on, allowing fans to engage with the material before the show even opened.

[13:33] Andrew Child: This was a pivotal moment in Broadway history, as it reflected the experiences of young people without resorting to parody or satire.

[13:43] Robert W. Schneider: Frederick D. Miller, a theatre scholar, has explored how Dear Evan Hansen comments on our societal reliance on social media, especially in an industry increasingly dependent on it for survival.

[13:53] Andrew Child: The creators, Pasek, Paul, and Levenson, provided nuanced observations on the culture surrounding social media, avoiding moralizing or criticism.

[14:03] Robert W. Schneider: This musical has also paved the way for others, such as Joe Iconis’ Be More Chill, which similarly resonates with young audiences.

[14:13] Andrew Child: Frederick D. Miller is an undergraduate theatre major at Pennsylvania State University and a dramaturg whose work focuses on contemporary American theatre.

[14:23] Robert W. Schneider: He has contributed to productions of Angels in America, A Little Night Music, and To Kill a Mockingbird, among others.

[14:33] Andrew Child: Miller is also an advocate for theatre education, frequently working as a teaching artist in Central Pennsylvania.

[14:43] Robert W. Schneider: His insights into Dear Evan Hansen provide a deeper understanding of its significance in today’s theatrical landscape.

[14:53] Andrew Child: Let’s explore how this musical has influenced both audiences and the industry at large.

[15:03] Robert W. Schneider: We’ll discuss the themes of connection and isolation, and how they resonate with the experiences of young people today.

[15:13] Andrew Child: And we’ll also touch on the innovative marketing strategies that have helped Dear Evan Hansen reach its audience.

[15:23] Robert W. Schneider: So, let’s dive into the world of Dear Evan Hansen and examine its lasting impact on musical theatre.

[15:33] Andrew Child: Stay tuned as we continue our exploration of this iconic musical.

[15:43] Robert W. Schneider: We’ll be right back after this short break.

[15:53] Andrew Child: Don’t go anywhere!

[16:03] Robert W. Schneider: Welcome back to Fifty Key Stage Musicals: The Podcast. We’re discussing Dear Evan Hansen and its cultural significance.

[16:13] Andrew Child: One of the most striking aspects of the musical is its portrayal of mental health issues, which resonates deeply with today’s youth.

[16:23] Robert W. Schneider: Absolutely. The show opens up conversations about anxiety, depression, and the pressures faced by young people in a digital age.

[16:33] Andrew Child: It’s important to note how the musical handles these themes with sensitivity and authenticity.

[16:43] Robert W. Schneider: Yes, and the character of Evan Hansen serves as a relatable figure for many, navigating the complexities of adolescence.

[16:53] Andrew Child: The music also plays a crucial role in conveying these emotions, with powerful ballads that capture the essence of Evan’s struggles.

[17:03] Robert W. Schneider: The score is both haunting and uplifting, reflecting the duality of hope and despair.

[17:13] Andrew Child: And the choreography complements the storytelling, enhancing the emotional impact of the musical.

[17:23] Robert W. Schneider: Danny Mefford’s choreography adds another layer to the narrative, illustrating the characters’ inner turmoil through movement.

[17:33] Andrew Child: It’s a testament to the collaborative effort that goes into creating a successful musical.

[17:43] Robert W. Schneider: Indeed, and the production team’s vision has helped Dear Evan Hansen become a cultural phenomenon.

[17:53] Andrew Child: As we continue our discussion, let’s reflect on the legacy of this musical and its influence on future works.

[18:03] Robert W. Schneider: We’ll also consider how it has changed the way Broadway engages with younger audiences.

[18:13] Andrew Child: Stay with us as we delve deeper into the world of Dear Evan Hansen.

[18:23] Robert W. Schneider: We’ll be back shortly with more insights and reflections.

[18:33] Andrew Child: Don’t miss it!

[18:43] Robert W. Schneider: Welcome back to Fifty Key Stage Musicals: The Podcast. We’re exploring the impact of Dear Evan Hansen.

[18:53] Andrew Child: One of the key elements of the show is its ability to foster a sense of community among its audience.

[19:03] Robert W. Schneider: Yes, the musical has created a space for young people to share their experiences and connect with one another.

[19:13] Andrew Child: This sense of belonging is crucial, especially in a time when many feel isolated.

[19:23] Robert W. Schneider: The show’s themes of connection and understanding resonate deeply, encouraging empathy and dialogue.

[19:33] Andrew Child: It’s a powerful reminder of the importance of reaching out and supporting one another.

[19:43] Robert W. Schneider: And as we look to the future, it’s clear that Dear Evan Hansen has set a precedent for how musicals can address contemporary issues.

[19:53] Andrew Child: Absolutely. Its influence will undoubtedly be felt for years to come.

[20:03] Robert W. Schneider: As we wrap up our discussion, let’s reflect on the journey of Dear Evan Hansen and its significance in the world of theatre.

[20:13] Andrew Child: We’ve seen how it has transformed the landscape of musical theatre and connected with audiences in meaningful ways.

[20:23] Robert W. Schneider: Thank you for joining us on this final chapter of Fifty Key Stage Musicals: The Podcast.

[20:33] Andrew Child: We hope you’ve enjoyed our exploration of Dear Evan Hansen and its impact.

[20:43] Robert W. Schneider: Until next time, keep celebrating the magic of musical theatre!

[20:53] Andrew Child: Goodbye!

[23:47] Frederick D. Miller: If not as evident in the musical, but really in the film version, the film adaptation that just came out, we see that happen.

[23:54] Andrew Child: Oh, interesting. And as a dramaturge, let's imagine that you're in the room, and you can let the authors know your thoughts and opinions. Do you feel that something needs to be changed with his character? So, spoilers to anyone who hasn't seen the movie yet. And everyone should see the movie. If you're a fan of the musical, definitely see the movie. And for our listeners, we should say that we're recording this in September of 2021, and the movie has just come out.

[24:26] Frederick D. Miller: Right, right. Maybe last week, two weeks ago? Last week, yeah, I think so, yeah.

[24:31] Andrew Child: Yeah. In the movie, the ending is a little different. Evan posts a video online saying exactly what he did. He loses all of his followers, people hate him, all of this stuff. And you really feel for Evan. And I think that that is also a criticism of the movie that it really tries too hard to make you feel for Evan, and shows him being isolated once again. But what the movie then does is show Evan trying to make amends. He finds the list of books that Connor read and loved, and begins to read every single book on that list. And this is talked about in the musical, but in the movie, we actually see him do this. And he tries to really discover who Connor actually was, because he never knew Connor, right?

And we see him find a video of Connor in rehab, playing music. And the movie kind of alludes to that Connor was in rehab and had a guitar that he would never play for anyone. He only played for himself. And so Evan finds this video and sends it on flash drives, very old school, who uses flash drives anymore? And sends them to the Murphys, sends them to other students, so that way they can also know Connor. And I thought it was a really touching ending. I don't necessarily know if it was necessary. Because it kind of is all said in the musical, in the final scene with Zoe and Evan in the orchard. But in the movie, we see it. Do we think that that was changed because of the criticism that the stage show received?

[26:18] Frederick D. Miller: I believe so. I think people, the writers knew that people were unhappy with Evan, kind of quote, getting away with it. And so they wanted to play with it and see what happens if he doesn't get away with it. And what if it is Evan's decision to announce to the world? That was really interesting. Because what would have happened if the Murphys had said, you know, Evan lied, here's our proof, blah, blah, blah. But I think Evan being the one that announces to the world that he lied, and I'm so sorry, that shows an intention to change and a regret for the past action. So I think that he is redeemable. And I think that, yeah, it's not the most ideal circumstances for him to end this particular moment in time with. But I think it's a true reflection of life. You know, people own up to their mistakes all the time. But it's the actions that come afterwards that we got to watch for. And that's what the movie does.

[27:17] Andrew Child: I think we'd be remiss not to talk about Ben Platt, who is so intertwined with this character, the same way somebody like Ethel Merman is, will always be Mama Rose for us. What is it about Ben Platt, as a performer, that made his creation of Dear Evan, of Evan Hansen, so memorable to so many?

[27:32] Frederick D. Miller: It was the physical and mental nature of his character. And I think what is really interesting goes back to the fact that this is an original musical, there is no source material. So he really built this character from the ground up, with Benj Pasek and Justin Paul and Steven Levinson and Michael Greif in the room, from the very first reading, he was a part of it. And so he, inherently, when that happens, parts of you are going to be put into the character, into the book writing, and he really encompassed everything that Evan Hansen is. And that being said, I don't necessarily agree with the fact that this show can't happen without Ben Platt playing the role. I think that if that is ever the case, it's a sign of weak writing that this show can't live on without a particular actor in a role.

I understand the casting choice for Ben Platt in the movie. I think that he's a little too old to be playing the role, he looks old in comparison to everyone that's around him. And I know that's been a huge criticism for the film that's been in all the reviews. But being said, I didn't really let it bother my experience. I think if we get bogged down on that detail, we're missing the bigger picture.

[29:04] Andrew Child: Have you had a chance to see a production of this show with Ben Platt not playing Evan Hansen?

[29:09] Frederick D. Miller: I have not, and I would love to. I'd love to see how it's different. Particularly, I'd love to see Jordan Fisher. I'm a big fan of them.

[29:14] Andrew Child: To see what they do with it, yeah.

[29:16] Frederick D. Miller: Absolutely. It'd be interesting to see that.

[29:19] Andrew Child: One of the traps that people can fall into is the fact that when a role becomes so intertwined with its performer, it's hard to allow people to bring other ideas and other interpretations to it. Do you think there are other interpretations that could vary differently from what Ben Platt was doing as Evan Hansen in subsequent productions of Dear Evan Hansen?

[29:36] Frederick D. Miller: It was really interesting a couple years ago when Andrew Barth Feldman took over the role, and he was a legit high schooler. I think he was 17 when he took over the role, which is actually the age that Evan is. There was a youthness and an energetic... There's a new energy to that role when you have someone that's actually that age playing that role. I think when Jordan Fisher took over the first Black Evan Hansen, that added a new energy. It added the way that we look at the role when it is a person of colour playing that role, and what does that say? I think there's multiple interpretations that can be done. I think as we continue to have productions of this show, or if it ever gets licensed, if it ever leaves Broadway, I hope it doesn't, what it will look like in community settings.

I think a production of Dear Evan Hansen in Alabama will look very different from a production that happens in New York or Pennsylvania or all over the country. But regardless of where it's set, I'm assuming that what you're saying is the universality of it will always mean something to someone regardless of the locale.

[31:01] Andrew Child: Absolutely. My last question for you, Frederick, is about what did Dear Evan Hansen open the door to? And I know this is tricky for us because historians say you really can't judge a historical moment until 25 years after the event has occurred. We're not that far away from Dear Evan Hansen yet. Can you tell us what you think the impact of Dear Evan Hansen is on musical theatre?

[31:17] Frederick D. Miller: I think what we're going to see happening more and more is that the lesser known shows are going to get just as much time in the spotlight as these bigger name shows with millions of dollars attached to it. We see this with shows like The Lightning Thief and Be More Chill that had relatively short runs, never made it to Broadway, but had these out-of-town tryouts, recorded a cast album, and then like a year or two later, all of a sudden there's this resurgence because of social media. And it allows people to hold on to these shows a lot longer than what their original intended life was. And I think if producers are smart, they're going to continue keeping their finger on the pulse there. Be More Chill came back, not only went to off-Broadway, went to Broadway, got Joe Iconis a Tony nomination. There's power in listening to the fans on social media. And I think Dear Evan Hansen noticed that probably first and foremost and opened up this door for other shows to follow that same model.

[32:33] Andrew Child: Do you think that we'll see an influx of musicals that deal specifically with a teenage generation? Or do you think that this was just maybe a one-off? Because like you were saying, things like Be More Chill and The Lightning Thief weren't financially successful geared towards a teenage audience. What do you think is going to happen?

[32:54] Frederick D. Miller: I think stories about young people are always going to be relevant. They have been before Dear Evan Hansen, and they'll continue to be afterwards. I think as we see rising ticket prices and just the absurd amount that people are paying for Broadway tickets, that's going to shut out people from seeing the show. I think a big reason why Be More Chill and The Lightning Thief didn't really do as well on Broadway as they could have been elsewhere is because the ticket prices are expensive, and parents can't drop their kids off to go see a Broadway show and continue to afford to do that, whereas they might be able to do at Two River Theater or off-Broadway. They can afford to do that a little bit more.

And these shows, like specifically Be More Chill, it's kind of a niche show that parents don't necessarily want to take their kids to, but they'll drop their kids off for it. Dear Evan Hansen is a family experience, right? Everyone can get something out of that, and so that's why that musical continues to run on Broadway, because it's not just for a particular age group. I think as musicals go, they're going to continue to be having their finger on the pulse and what's important to that particular generation. I think because teenagers are so much on social media right now, it feels like we're the ones that these shows are being marketed towards. And so, of course, the musicals are going to be about us, because we're the ones that are talking about it and giving this free publicity by sharing all of these posts.

[34:30] Andrew Child: Frederick, thank you so much for joining us today, and thank you so much for such a thoughtful and wonderful chapter about the power of Dear Evan Hansen. And it's exciting to see 25 years from now, let's talk again and see how right we were on this one. Friends, thank you so much for joining us today. Please make sure to purchase a copy of 50 Key Stage Musicals by visiting routledge.com or by clicking in today's show description. If you want to learn more about Dear Evan Hansen, please also review the links in the below description. I'm Robert Schneider, and thank you for listening to 50 Key Stage Musicals, the podcast. Goodbye.