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[0:00] John Schwab: Hi, John Schwab here, and welcome to Episode 179 of the Curtain Call Podcast. Now, I know, I know it's been a hot minute, but we're back and we'll be bringing you more episodes more regularly, starting with this one. And if you didn't know, Curtain Call is the podcast that takes you deep behind the scenes of the theater world, bringing you in-depth conversations with the story makers that are shaping the future of theater. See, what we do here is we pull back the curtain, and we reveal the stories behind the stories and give you a glimpse into the backstage world, as no other podcast does. And this episode, we're going back to a show that we covered a long, long time ago. So 10 years ago, a decade ago, God, where's the time gone?

I went to see the revival of Jesus Christ Superstar at Regent's Park Open Air Theatre. Now, that was an insane production. It was enthralling, engaging, powerful, directed by Tim Sheeter, with Declan Connelly playing the eponymous Jesus, Tyrone Huntley as Judas, Anoushka Lucas as Mary Magdalene, and David Thaxton as Judas. And I remember thinking then that I probably wouldn't watch another production of JCS because I had just seen my defining one. Well, fast forward a decade, and Tim Sheeter is at it again, this time at the London Palladium. Huntley and Thaxton reprise their roles, with Sam Ryder brought in to play Jesus, and today's guest is Desmonda Cathabel, gloriously playing Mary. Well, well, well, my fears of suffering by comparison were quashed within the first minute of this highly entertaining, beautifully sung with musical direction by Tom Scutt, and astonishingly choreographed, kudos to Drew McOnie, production.

It's just another powerhouse of a revival, and I urge fans of the musical, and skeptics of the musical, to see it before it closes. Guys, it's a short musical. It is 45 minutes in act. It's incredible. So you have no, and it's just all music you know. So go. I sat down with the delightful Desmonda in her dressing room, thankfully air-conditioned, in this crazy London heatwave. I mean, it's crazy people. I talked to her about her journey from Jakarta to London, that's a long way, and her career to date, and her taking on the iconic role of Mary on the most iconic stage in London. It's quite a journey. Have a listen.

[2:33] Desmonda Cathabel: So. Hello. Desmonda. Hey. Jesus Christ Superstar. Jesus Christ Superstar. Okay, so I saw it last night. So I had, I have a relationship with this production. Yes, please. I saw it back in Regent's Park Open Air Theatre. I had Andrew Lloyd Webber literally sitting two rows in front of me, bopping his little head off, like literally doing, but there's so, because there's so much rock, like embracing the rock of this, and the soul, actually soul as well. 100%. Which is amazing. And we're going to talk about this production. I thought it was amazing, first of all, but I just want to get our listeners to know a bit about you. Oh, I also, I saw you in. Where? Old Friends. Old Friends. Yes. What? In the one night concert?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was incredible. Wow. Yeah. So, anyway, it's so good. So good. I get to see you quite a bit, so it's quite nice. So I just wanted a little bit of a background about yourself, because you've had a hell of a journey. Massive, crazy journey. Come on, bring it. I'm like, it's so, it's kind of like, it's even, it's crazy to even start. Like, well, I moved here from Indonesia five years ago. Born there, lived there, grew up there, did my bachelor's degree work there. Like, I did corporate just before COVID happened. Like, I worked in corporate, like, just before COVID happened. You're joking. Of course you did. So I had like a whole, basically, I had a completely different life before I even decided to, you know, I'm just going to do this and risk this.

Was it like a spark? Did you go, oh, I'm going to? It wasn't exactly like a spark. I did community theater back in Indonesia for like, maybe eight years. This is like up until like COVID. And because we don't have musical theater training in Indonesia, and it's not, there's not really any industry happening. Of course, there's a lot of community theater, people who love musical theater. We just kind of like, get together and make whatever we can. But there was no training whatsoever. So it wasn't really even in my realm of possibility of, you know, 17 year old wanting to pursue something in life. Like there wasn't any path towards that. So I just kind of like did what like any normal teenager do.

Like I just went to uni, did my bachelor's degree in communications, whilst also doing musical theater on the side. And just did, you know, graduated, had work. But then when I got to corporate, that's kind of when I realized like, I can't do this. Well, the thing is, about like two years. The thing is, I worked in central Jakarta. If you've ever been to Jakarta, oh my god, it's like, it's jam packed, traffic jam, like it's crazy, like you've never seen before. So every time I would go to the office, I would be in like gridlock, like a traffic gridlock for at least four hours a day. Imagine, it's not even like, oh, my train journey is two hours. No, I'm sitting, not moving in traffic for four hours a day.

So I'm like, traffic, traffic is the worst. Traffic is the worst, because you can't go anywhere, you just have to stick with your vehicle. And so I just felt like, wow, I'm literally wasting my early 20s, sitting in traffic, like I can't do this.

[6:07] John Schwab: You're spending a day a week in traffic.

[6:08] Desmonda Cathabel: Exactly. How insane. And that's the reality that most people live in Jakarta. And my only other passion in life is musical theatre at that point. And so I just get googling, I get googling. And then shortly after that, I quit my job, trying to sort of like find freelance work for singing whatever in Indonesia. And then COVID happened. Obviously, instantly, no job, like can't even start because every place is closed. And so I just get googling, I applied for, I literally googled one year program, UK musical theatre. And I tried to look for in the US, but they don't have one year programs. And at that point, I'm already like 24, 25. So I'm like, I'm not about to spend another three years in school. By the time I graduate, I'll be 27. The UK are brilliant for that, by the way, doing their master's degrees and PhDs in a concentrated time.

[7:06] Desmonda Cathabel: Exactly. And like a lot of when I got to speed running through the process, I auditioned, got into Rock Academy Music, got a scholarship, flew over. And it was amazing to see in that one year program, there's so many people who are kind of like me, like we have kind of experience in our community theatres or in our school theatres, but have never, ever trained. So this is like the one year kind of like condensed program for people who have like just enough experience on stage, but just have not the time to train. And that genuinely that move just completely changed my life. Like I got to London and immediately, I felt like the doors just opened. And I just kind of like I grabbed every opportunity I could, just literally the moment I got to London.

Rock Academy of Music is amazing for that because they just connect you to industry people, like all of the teachers that you've got, they brought in directors, they brought in composers, they brought in like even like Claude-Michel Schoenberg is there like every day, basically. And before even Stephen Sondheim passed away, he's like a regular in Rock Academy of Music. So it's like, it's incredible, just connection to the world of musical theatre. And so I think just time, it just kind of like fell into place. And it was, I came here just right at the end of COVID. So things are starting opening up and I could go to auditions, real live shows in person. So it was just kind of just, I was there for like at the right time at the right place, I guess. And it just, the ball just started rolling.

[8:57] Desmonda Cathabel: Meant to be.

[8:58] John Schwab: Like meant to be.

[8:59] Desmonda Cathabel: Truly. So and here we are.

[9:02] John Schwab: But in a pretty, as careers go from like, okay, what I do love about London, because I came to London, you know, as a mature student and did a degree. I didn't do a drama degree because I was, I couldn't afford it because I was already doing university as an overseas student back in 1996, showing my age. But I, the doors when I got to London opened and they were okay with meeting someone new. And I think that this city is beautiful about that. You know, sometimes going to Broadway, it's a bit of a close shop. You see the same people in the same, and don't get me wrong. I either, I follow a lot of Broadway people. I think it's great. I love seeing those guys, but this is much more, you know, just open, just open to new people. So saying that, you've still done a buttload of stuff, you know?

[10:00] Desmonda Cathabel: It's mental, like my first job.

[10:02] John Schwab: Did you kind of come out and go, well, this is easy.

[10:04] Desmonda Cathabel: Well, it just, it feels like it's a completely different, as you said, like it's a completely different environment as even from what I know back in Indonesia, like if you think about entertainment industry, like say if you want to be a musician, whatever, it seems like a very unattainable thing where you have to know someone to know someone to get literally even to the front door, the front step. And here it feels like everything just kind of like, hey, join this. And like, we want to see you. And like, people are so open to seeing new talent and are very excited for new talents. Like my first ever job was, I was still in Royal Academy of Music, Maria Friedman.

[10:45] John Schwab: Love it, love Maria Friedman.

[10:47] Desmonda Cathabel: Love Maria Friedman. Like she literally just, her MD was a RAM alumni, and he just saw one of our shows and Maria was doing a Sondheim tribute concert. And she just told him like, hey, can you audition a couple of these people? Because I want to put a guest spot for a newcomer. How crazy. And I auditioned and I got it. And like, it literally transferred.

[11:14] John Schwab: Okay, did you go, this is easy.

[11:16] Desmonda Cathabel: And I was like, okay. I was like, thank you. It's insane. Which also what led me to Old Friends. Yeah, that's great. And so with that, I mean, that is obviously such great platforms.

[12:28] Desmonda Cathabel: My number in the show as Mary Magdalene, I'm on stage by myself, and I remember being, my director just told me, well, you have to share it with the audience. You have to include the audience with this monologue that you're having. And I'm like, amazing, great. But then the first time I did it, it's like, there's so many people, singing to the gods, and to the sun, and then of course, the audience on stage is behind you. I didn't know that was going to be a thing either. Yeah, exactly. And it's just like, this is amazing, but also at the same time, they feel really close. It feels like in that number, I genuinely could, I mean, I'm blind on stage. I don't wear my glasses, so I can't really see their faces, but it feels like they're really close.

And it's just amazing that as big of a house that Palladium is, it feels like they're really close to you. And it feels like a really close wall of people. And it's just amazing to see just reactions of people, and it's incredible. The audience last night was amazing. Amazing. And I'm sure the reaction is like that every night. These are so well-known numbers. You're carrying the torch that's been passed on. So there was a moment after singing your number, but you have a couple numbers, but your number, I don't have a number. And I turned to my wife and I said, she's taking this in. Which it felt like after they were applauding that there was, I just saw you kind of, I saw, you can tell me I'm wrong, I just saw you, what I saw was a performer going, I'm taking this.

And it was almost as if he said, thank you. I saw an appreciation for the appreciation that they were giving you. I have not seen that before, in that show, in the middle of this musical. So it was really cool.

[14:27] Desmonda Cathabel: Oh, thank you. I really love that moment. Just because again, in this number, to give you a little insight of what's in my brain, or what was kind of like, have been sort of put up for this number. Obviously, I'm trying to take everyone in like, hey guys, this is what I think about this guy right here, who's sleeping on the side. And, and that last, obviously, that last line, which is very beautiful. I love him. So it's like the first time that she kind of like accepts that, like the fully like, pure acceptance. And because I have been talking to everyone of you guys, like outside, it feels like, you know, when you're kind of like talking to your best friend, oh my god, like, actually, yeah.

And then you kind of like have that kind of like overcome with emotions. And I, I love that moment. Because that's exactly what I want to show people is like, this is, you've helped me almost like to get to this conclusion, because you're listening to me, and like you're, you've been following me through this whole song monologue. And I guess you're right. It's kind of like, thank you guys for listening to me. It's just, there was something, this is just a lovely moment between audience and performer that doesn't often happen in the middle of a musical. Yeah, that was unique experience for me. And I think possibly it could be because in this production, you guys pass the mic. Yes. And who has the mic is the person who needs to be listening to and has the power at that moment.

So you having had the mic and keep going, I appreciate that. It was just a lovely moment. It's a lovely moment. And I'm like, and I'm so glad they kind of like kept it in like that moment is specifically it wasn't like a moment for applause. No, no. Yeah, it was kind of like, it wasn't like a bow.

[16:18] Desmonda Cathabel: The first time that happened. And then the only thing that I have to do is kind of like, you know, go to wherever I need to go and hand the mic but even in the music, it just sort of like it stopped. And it's not because of the applause, because of like, this conclusion, yeah, that we've all arrived. Yeah. And kind of like seeing that thought process, sort of like finalizing. Yeah, it's just, it's amazing. I love that moment. So thank you for that.

[16:44] Desmonda Cathabel: No, it's good. It was a lesson. It was class. It was a class moment. And many, many class moments in that show. I do. I do love this musical. I mean, it's a divisive musical, I think people either love it or hate it. You know, like cats either love it or hate it. You can be confused by it. You know, Sunset Boulevard, which Thaxton was in, we were talking about him, you know. Okay, there's a real resurgence of ALW at the moment. Why do you have any? I don't want you to get on the bus. But what? I have no opinions yet. Because I've just I'm literally thinking about it as I'm speaking. Yes. There is a real resurgence. You know, Cats is about to go on in Regent's Park. It's there. So like, what is it?

What do you think it is? I think I don't know, I feel like whatever is happening in the ALW office, I'm happy that they're doing that. Because what they're doing is like, literally handing their own babies, right? Like they're handing their babies. It's like to give it to the new generation and like, Hey, what do you think about this piece? And what do you want to do with it? And I think that's incredible. And that's what you should do to for a legacy piece, because then in that way, it will stay literally forever.

[18:02] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, it will just keep being relevant. Like throughout the ages, it doesn't have to stay it doesn't have to stick to that one version that you did in 1973. Or like, or I don't know, like the version that you didn't want 80. Well, because I think I'm probably got a Jellicle ball and they got the phantom. There's the site specific phantom thing that's going on at the moment. And like Sunset and Evita.

[18:24] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, Evita was here. And you know, it was reimagining. Yes, for the Yeah, that's, I can see how that plays. And I think that's a very smart move, considering like, if you want to your, again, your legacy piece to, to be at the top of people's mind when you think about, you know, musicals, like, what do you want to think about? Like, if you think about Phantom of the Opera, maybe like people think about the version that has been around for what is it? Maybe 4040 years? 40 years anniversary now? Yeah, like, but maybe not a lot of people will now think about that version on the top of their mind. If they've seen like, for example, if they see in next year, a new version of Phantom of the Opera, they will know.

[19:10] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah. Oh, this is the version. Yeah. Like, it's really exciting. And really smart. Yeah, I think no, I think it's great. There again, you know, chess was reimagined on Broadway. It was absolutely stunning. Really, really clever way of updating that. And this this one feels this one feels less like this. It's not about religion. No, it's not. It's about somebody who's got a powerful message that people want to silence, right? Yeah, I think you're the voice, really the voice of the people. That's what I see. You know?

[19:42] Desmonda Cathabel: You've had many people come before you in this role. Oh, my God. Was there any kind of I, a there's two parts to this question. Like, did you take anyone in any particular inspiration? Let's talk about the pressure. I've been there before. I perform in something that somebody else.

[20:00] Desmonda Cathabel: Oh, my God. Okay, here we go. Well, I think when I came in into rehearsals, what the creatives has been kind of like, hammering into us, really, and especially in the musical supervisor, Tom Deering, is that we want to take it so good. He's so good, by the way, genius. Well done. It sounds insane. Like, but they want a really specific sound that taking us all back to the original cast album, because it's kind of like the, it's the one that's really broke.

[20:36] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah. The confined confinements of musical theater, or even society, like even like what you think about, oh, this is a rock musical by Jesus. Wow, like, that's crazy. That's a crazy idea. So I think they want to bring it back to that original vibe, kind of like raw analog. And of course, in the original album is Yvonne Elliman. And they really want the sound to sort of like, really go back to that, like really 70s singer, Joni Mitchell.

[21:10] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, I was about to say, there's a real, there was a real Joni Mitchell sound, like really simple, clean, soft, just pure control. Yeah, we literally had a moment in rehearsals where Tom literally sat us all down to listen to Joni Mitchell's Sire of Sorrow, because it's like, this is, if you still don't get the vibe, this is the vibe that we're looking for. I'm like, yeah, got it. And I think it's just great, because again, me, I've done a couple of roles before this. And this is the first time where I feel like I'm allowed to just really sit in that and just like, allow myself to, to really tap into that, that sensibility, which is again, still really hard to do, especially this big stage to play, if you want to belt.

[21:57] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, you want to like, you want to rap on, but it's especially holding a microphone. This is so much fun. And there's a big audience, like you want to bow, like your heart is racing. And it's so difficult to sort of like, just kind of like, it feels like I'm genuinely like, keeping everything in, like with all like my muscle. And I think that's just the inspiration, really. And going back to what Yvonne Elliman did, and like, the singers of that era, the qualities that they have, because essentially, this music, and what makes it so great, it's like, because it came from that sort of like, chaotic time of era, where even, I think Andrew said this to Tom, and Tom said it to us, and like that, I guess it's like, the reason why certain sounds sounds like that in the recording is because like, oh, we couldn't find like good enough, I don't know, drummer or like bassist, but

[23:27] John Schwab: Yeah, just well done. And also just telling the story. But you were surrounded. It's so easy to come back and talk to a cast member when I literally go, God, every person on there has told an astonishing story. And what's gorgeous about the way that you're talking about, you're singing, you've got, you had Billy Nevers yesterday playing Judas, who just is like a big voice. And like, you know, so like, just gorgeous. Baxton with this baritone, rich baritone, and then just going crazy to Jesus at the end. And I'm forgetting his name, but who plays Caiaphas?

[24:15] Desmonda Cathabel: Oh, Bob. Bob Harms.

[24:16] John Schwab: That's right. I mean, incredible. Every single one. And of course, Sam, Sam, who I remember watching him in Eurovision. And my brother and I said, he should play Jesus. And here we are. When they announced it, I went, yeah, of course. Of course. So all of you have your own style. Yeah. And it's one of a fit. That's what I think. That's another, I think what the genius almost like behind the casting, I don't know what is happening in their sort of like casting panel, but every time we're in rehearsals, even in understudy rehearsals, even in ensemble, like vocal rehearsals, everything, it seems like Tom has picked every single sound that he needed for his piece to work. And it's not just like, hey, this people can sing in, I don't know, a low G, I don't know, or like a high A or something like that.

It's just like the quality and the mesh, how it works with each other. It's just amazing. And you can immediately tell when you, again, like when you see Bob on stage, it doesn't, you're not, you don't just think like, oh, this guy can really sing alone. No, like every phrasing is incredible. Like, obviously you're perfect for this role. And then he just, you go, oh, I didn't expect that note out of him. He turns it on his head.

[25:44] John Schwab: Okay, here we go. So a couple more questions. Yes. How hard is it to get the glitter out of you?

[25:50] Desmonda Cathabel: Well, yeah, I mean, it is crazy. There's so much glitter in this production, but it's so fricking cool and effective. Yes, it is so effective. It's genius. Never seen it before. Yeah, it works. The idea is the designer, Tom Scott, maybe also Tim Sheeters. Well, the idea is that we are slowly gold defy Jesus as this sort of like symbol when he's never won. He's never that symbol.

[26:25] John Schwab: Yeah, he never asked for it. He never asked for it.

[26:29] Desmonda Cathabel: But we were the one who throw the gold and glitter and make him this symbol. Yeah. And I think that's just genius. I'm like, how do you even think about that? Well, I'm lucky in the glitter department. I don't have to be involved in glitter. But you must get glitter on.

[26:39] John Schwab: Oh, for sure. Even when I'm literally not touching any glitter, I go home in the shower and like, why do I have glitter on my floor? I mean, as you can see, like in the hallway, the whole Palladium is now caked in glitter. It's going to be the next production that comes in. It's going to be like, what the hell is going on? It's never going to go anywhere. It's going to be glitter for decades.

[27:05] Desmonda Cathabel: Four decades. Unless they change the carpet or something.

[27:12] John Schwab: No, that's just, I had to ask that question. I had to ask the question. And I always kind of end on, it's pretty, you can be on the nose if I ask the question, like, what do you want people to kind of get from this? And I love audience watching as well. And last night, there were some WI, you know, the Women's Institute, a group of them sitting next to me. And they were bopping along and during King Herod's Feast, you know, the ladies in front of me, you know, were just literally shaking. And I saw a lot of joy. And there were a few tears shed. But what is it that you and the cast, like you in specific, what would you like people to kind of take away from this experience? Other than just kind of being entertained for the evening?

[28:00] Desmonda Cathabel: Right, of course. I think I really want people to take away the sound. I don't know, like this production in particular, the sound is so important. Obviously, the big orchestra, we've never had that for Jiska Subzar in a long time. So it's just, it's just very, this is, I'm saying this, because we're living in the age of like everything, you can make everything out of what with AI, whatever, like easy peasy. You hear all sorts of sounds, like just by scrolling through your phone, like it's no surprise. But what's surprising is hearing 19 instruments on stage, and like about 20 people screaming. We have no click tracks, by the way, like so every single harmony, every single, like scream, every single like weird noise we make on stage.

And you can feel it. I believe you can feel that. I believe you can feel the organic, holistic nature of the music being made. It does feel raw. And I think it's just so special in the age where like, it feels like this can be replicated by some other kind of technology. But no, this is like a real sound coming out of real instruments, out of real people. And I think, I don't know, I just want that sound to really move people in that way. And, and, again, like for me, for example, like for Mary Magdalene, standing in a big stage at Palladium in 2026, as I don't know, like a female role with, among other shows on the West End, where you don't really hear an alto female voice. You never get alto, ever get alto.

Cleo, my niece Cleo, listen to this. She's an alto. And she gets, she just feels it, you know. I know, like, it's just like, it's so amazing for, for me to be allowed to kind of like exist in this massive, massive stage. And like, you don't have to belt, you don't have to scrout, you just need to stay in your tone and, and, and really tap into your artistry and musicality to make that interesting. And it's just, it's incredible. Like I won't get that chance in, in a lot of other jobs in my career, even in the future, you know. And I think it's, it's, it's, it's beautiful to, to hear that and kind of to like, wow, like this is such a nice sound. And, and you get moved, you are moved. A hundred percent.

You are moved by that, just by the contrast of everything. And so I think my main kind of like, takeaway that I want people to take away from this show is, I hope you really consider how the sound are being made and, and how that moves you. And because I truly believe, I firmly believe that sound, music, vibrations is so essential to our existence as human beings.

[30:48] John Schwab: Sound is energy, it hits you in different ways.

[30:50] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, it's waves, like, it's like, and it is so important for you to experience that and to remember like, this is what music can do to you, like physically, and just like, spiritually as well. And I just, it's incredible to see. And even like in the movement on, on stage, Drew McHoney has choreographed this piece so beautifully, because it reacts with the music.

[31:16] John Schwab: We didn't even talk about it.

[31:18] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, we've not even talked about it. Holy shitballs, Batman. The dancing in this show is off the charts. Good. I mean, unbelievable. Who is the first person that comes out and dances? I don't want to...

[31:31] John Schwab: Charlie, Charlie Warburton is our mob leader.

[31:35] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, I mean, exactly. It was hard not to, I have to come back and just watch them dance on the show.

[31:41] John Schwab: Exactly.

[31:43] Desmonda Cathabel: Because...

[31:44] John Schwab: I agree.

[31:45] Desmonda Cathabel: It was unbelievable.

[31:46] John Schwab: Unbelievable.

[31:46] Desmonda Cathabel: There's so many good dancers in the show.

[31:48] John Schwab: Yeah. And it's just like how, again, not just the music, but also just like how that music affects the movement and the movement affects you. And like...

[31:55] Desmonda Cathabel: They're telling a story. I was, I was so clever. Drew's done such an incredible thing. Oh my god.

[31:59] John Schwab: Yeah.

[32:00] Desmonda Cathabel: And it's just like, you feel...

[32:01] John Schwab: Can you tell I love this show?

[32:02] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, I can tell.

[32:03] John Schwab: Can you tell?

[32:04] Desmonda Cathabel: I'm glad. I'm happy that you are because like...

[32:07] John Schwab: Can you imagine if I came back and was like, oh my god, nothing to ask really.

[32:09] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, exactly.

[32:10] John Schwab: So tell me.

[32:11] Desmonda Cathabel: Yeah, you're all very talented.

[32:12] John Schwab: Tell me about Gettystown. Take it all for it. Is there, is there anything, I mean, finally, is there anything kind of you going on to, you don't know what's next?

[32:21] Desmonda Cathabel: Oh, I don't know what's next. It's just kind of like the life of an actor. I think, okay, I know you're going to be around for a long time. Like you are, honestly, you're, it was such a pleasure to watch you perform Mary Magdalene. I mean, it was, um, I don't, I don't always say it. I have to be honest. My dad told me to speak the truth. And you don't have to remember what you said. It was so good. It was so, so, so good. I texted Dave after the show and I was like, wow, maybe that's the, like that is, it's just, it's taken it up a notch. And I don't know if I'm going to be able to watch another production because I think I've seen my production.

[32:58] Desmonda Cathabel: Yes.

[32:58] John Schwab: I don't know if you've ever done that for a show.

[33:00] Desmonda Cathabel: No, a hundred percent. I agree. I agree. And I feel like this is just, uh, it's, the roof has just been like, like blown off. So I'm like, I'm glad that you feel that because I feel like everyone on stage definitely feels that like, even in rehearsals, like we'd be, we'd be crying on like, just like in rehearsals, just the feeling of this energy that we are kind of like propulsing on stage together. It's incredible. And I just wish that I hope that people can also get that way.

[33:29] John Schwab: Yeah, they will come and see it. Everybody. Thank you so much for talking to me and, um, all the best for the rest of the run.

[33:44] John Schwab: Desmonda Cathabel there, Mary Magdalene and Tim Sheeters revival of Jesus Christ Superstar at the London Palladium. And just before we go, if you want to reach out, you can find me on all the socials at John Schwab, J-W-H-N-S-C-H-W-A-B. It gives me great pleasure to thank Desmonda and the entire company of Jesus Christ Superstar. Thank you to Shure Microphones for being the equipment sponsor of this podcast. I've been using your microphones for six years. It's incredible. And lastly, thanking you for listening. Speak soon. Stay safe. Bye.