This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Burke Swanson: Hey, everyone, this is Burke Swanson and you're listening to Behind The Awards.

[0:06] Eila Mell: Behind The Awards is so excited to welcome Dan Moses Schreier to our show. Welcome.

[0:11] Dan Moses Schreier: Thank you. It's good to be here.

[0:13] Eila Mell: Thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on your Tony nomination.

[0:17] Dan Moses Schreier: That was a nice day. It's been nice.

[0:20] Eila Mell: Absolutely. This is nothing new for you. You've been nominated a few times here and there.

[0:26] Dan Moses Schreier: So you're in the sound design category. So, you know, the Tonys and sound design have a history where sound wasn't even a category until somewhat recently. Were you part of that conversation when they introduced the category of sound design?

[0:44] Dan Moses Schreier: Yes, there was definitely a Tony committee that was out interviewing sound designers and their feelings about what's going on in terms of sound design. I think the technology and what you can do in the theater in terms of sound was beginning to change where it was becoming a very large part of the theatrical experience. And I think there was some pressure coming from the Drama Desk Awards that did have the sound design category. And it was acknowledging really important work that was being done in the theater. So I think when the committee reached out to a bunch of us designers or these small groups where they interviewed us, we said, it's time.

[1:23] Eila Mell: Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that I thought when I saw Floyd Collins that was so interesting to me is, you know, you have this space, the Vivian Beaumont that is so big and expansive yet. You know, it sounds so intimate and it sounds like, you know, Jeremy's singing from a cave and, you know, all of these things that obviously the sound was very effective to portray. Did this space for this particular show and what you were trying to accomplish, did it have its own challenges other than just creating the environment you wanted to?

[1:59] Dan Moses Schreier: Definitely it had its own challenges. Vivian Beaumont itself is a very unusually shaped theater compared to most Broadway theaters. Also, for me, having designed the original off-Broadway production, which was done in a two hundred and fifty seat theater that was on a postage stage, you know, 20 foot by 20 foot stage to go from that to a thousand seat theater with the stage, which is one of the largest on Broadway in terms of its depth. Well, the space, you know, the Vivian Beaumont seems cavernous.

[2:48] Eila Mell: Did that help at all in terms of getting the right sound for those scenes in the cave?

[2:54] Dan Moses Schreier: I think it does help. I think the idea that you can be it. Well, it's an enormous canvas to work on. And having such a large canvas is a great way to be able to express the ideas that are in the play and in the musical and to achieve many of the effects that Adam is looking specifically for. So having a large space has been a blessing. It's been a wonderful thing to work with.

[3:19] Eila Mell: So I feel like sound design is a category many people don't understand. From what I think, it's two components. It's one, making sure that in a musical anyway, that you can hear everything clearly and, you know, the instruments sound good and the actors sound good. And but then it's also adding those elements that give you a sense of where you are and when you are. Am I close to what it actually is?

[3:45] Dan Moses Schreier: You're very close. And to give an example, you know, what's specific to Floyd Collins, one of the tasks that I was assigned was that Floyd Collins, the character, has to sing a song with his own echoes in the cave. And so to do that, it took a lot of technology and a lot of equipment so that he was able to sing the song, create the echoes, and on top of all of that, to keep the echoes in time with the music. So there were many things that in this particular show that needed to be accomplished through sound design.

[4:18] Eila Mell: So what kind of a recording session do you do for that?

[4:21] Dan Moses Schreier: Well, what's really great about what we're doing in the Vivian Beaumont Theater is all of the echo effects are live. Nothing is recorded. So we're using Jeremy Jordan's live voice in the moment, echoing it in the theater in real time. And that's part of the excitement of the show.

[4:39] Eila Mell: Wow.

[4:40] Dan Moses Schreier: Many people have asked, oh, those are recorded and they're not.

[4:44] Eila Mell: I feel like there should be like a slip in the playbill that says you're listening to all live.

[4:49] Dan Moses Schreier: It's all live. Yeah.

[4:51] Eila Mell: Wow. Well, I hope Tony voters are listening to this because that, you know, that might make a big difference in the voting.

[4:57] Dan Moses Schreier: I hope so.

[4:58] Eila Mell: Absolutely. So how do you do something like that?

[5:01] Dan Moses Schreier: I use my imagination.

[5:03] Eila Mell: Wow.

[5:04] Dan Moses Schreier: I use, you know, one of the wonderful differences between when we did it before and what we're doing it now is we've crossed the digital divide. So the whole technological thing, which of things you can do in the theater has changed. So when we did it before, we did it with outboard reverb units that were analog, that were sending signals to different things. And this time it's all done through one computer that's getting it out through the theater. So that's different.

[5:33] Eila Mell: Did you have to go back to sort of the starting point for the Vivian Beaumont because it's such a different kind of space in your design?

[5:42] Dan Moses Schreier: Oh, because of the size of the space. Yeah. It's it's as I say, it's like apples and machinery. They're not at all alike.

[5:50] Eila Mell: Not even in the same species.

[5:52] Dan Moses Schreier: They're different animals. Yeah. Everything had to be started from the beginning again. Everything was based on many of the ideas that we created the first time around, because some of it is dictated in the music. And Tina's many of Tina's ideas are still similar to the ideas that she wanted to bring into the Beaumont. But it really was starting from the beginning again.

[6:12] Eila Mell: And I'm sure it helps having the team all intact that did it before. So that way you you're kind of, you know, able to expand on your conversations in terms of the creative in terms of the creative team.

[6:25] Dan Moses Schreier: It was great fun, actually, to revisit the show with the same people after all these years were like, I'm great now. I wasn't great back then. So like that added to the excitement of being able to really see what can we do this time that takes it to the next level. And I really think that we were able to achieve that on this wonderful canvas of the Vivian Beaumont because of its size.

[6:51] Eila Mell: Yeah. And all the possibilities, things you can do in that space. You talked about, you know, apples and oranges. And in your career, I think when I was doing my research, I counted, I think this is like 58th Broadway production, which is astounding. But you do both musicals and plays when you're doing your sound design for a musical versus a play. Do you have to come in from a different vantage point?

[7:11] Dan Moses Schreier: Yeah. Again, there are like apples and machinery to plays are unique in the sense that you really are doing everything to serve the text as best you can. And in a musical, not only you're trying to serve the text of the book, but then you have to serve the accomplishment of the music. So there's a it's a gigantic leap of responsibilities and the amount of gear you need to bring in and the things that you are overseeing. So there is a very big difference. But I love doing both. I don't have a preference. They're great.

[7:50] Eila Mell: So in terms of technology, what what else were you able to do for this run that you couldn't do for the other the original Floyd Collins run?

[7:58] Dan Moses Schreier: Well, you know, there's something about the familiarity of working with Adam and Tina again as mature, mature artists, I hope. And that was the big thing for me was, you know, the technology and all that stuff was exciting. But really to reconnect with Adam and Tina and to look at this piece and like really examine how can we tell the story in a better way, in a newer way and make it more beautiful, really? Because, well, I mean, I think this piece is a very beautiful piece on Tina's ideas and the way Adam composed the score. So it was great to be able to reexamine all that and try to do something a little bit new and exciting with it. So that was important and great fun for me. It's great.

[8:51] Eila Mell: I know that many sound designers are also musicians who write music for shows. Is that you as well?

[8:58] Dan Moses Schreier: Yes, I've always my I studied music composition in college and I've always my entire career I've gone back and forth and writing music for the theatre or doing sound design. Maybe my most well known scores, I composed a score for The Merchant of Venice with Al Pacino on Broadway. And I've written scores for, I think, seven Shakespeare productions at the Delcourt Theatre. So it's a big part of my practice. And it's one of the things that I hope when I'm functioning as a sound designer, when I'm talking to the composer, that we have a common level that we can talk about. And I actually I love working with composers because I feel like I understand their world and what and what they're trying to achieve. And they can say things to me in a way that a composer would speak that I will immediately understand and know how to translate into sound design.

[9:50] Eila Mell: Right. You speak the same language. So it's, you know, it's like going to a foreign country and you know, that language you can just easily have that dialogue back and forth. And obviously it informs your work and you can easier for you to navigate what they're looking for, for sure.

[10:05] Dan Moses Schreier: And it's also the way I work with the orchestrator, too, in the sense, like, where's that triangle? And I'll say, oh, wait, hold on, let me find where that is. Oh, yeah, there's. But to get that kind of specificity in the sound design so that the orchestrations are heard fully is another part of being a musician and being able to talk to the orchestrator is also a big part of my job on musicals.

[10:32] Eila Mell: So, well, so then I would think the conversations with the people on the music end and then the director are very different kinds of conversations about what you want to achieve.

[10:43] Dan Moses Schreier: Oh, very much so. I mean, that's where the two hats kind of meet. I mean, as a composer and a sound designer, one of the things I'm always organizing noise in time. I mean, that's the job, either being a composer with notes on paper or in sound design in terms of effects and how they happen in space and time. So to be able to translate any of the musical ideas into the technical sound design is that's where I come into play. And that's what that's what I love to do is this when I'm wearing my sound designer hat.

[11:18] Eila Mell: So, I mean, obviously, the echo that we just talked about is that's a huge accomplishment. But what else in Floyd Collins are you proud of that people might not even notice is happening sound wise?

[11:30] Dan Moses Schreier: Oh, one of the things that not only the echoes, as you say, but the set is very minimal in a wonderful way. So there are many times that the only things that are creating the world of the cave and Floyd being stuck and the issues that he's dealing with are the lights and the sound. That's the only thing that's going on sometimes. So it's a big character in the production. And it's one of the things that really assists in the storytelling that is not always the case with every sound design that I do. But in Floyd Collins, the actual effects that create the cave collapses or certain things that happen, which echoes, which actually which reverbs happen at which point of the play, try to assist Tina's storytelling so that you always know where you are. And that's an important way the sound design functions in Floyd Collins.

[12:26] Eila Mell: And working with Tina, I mean, she's she's very innovative. What have you learned working with her?

[12:32] Dan Moses Schreier: To be as creative as possible. And when you're working with Tina, you got to bring your A game. That's how to do it. So and I love doing that. And so the discussions with Tina are some of it is intuitive since we've done it before, but some of it is like, Dan, how about this this time?

[12:52] Eila Mell: Working with Bruce Gotlieb is a real joy.

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[25:45] Burke Swanson: Justin coming out into the waiting room with me and him looking at me and sort of giggling to himself and saying, mate, it's all a bit more Scooby-Doo. And that reality, it's it I just this like weight went off my shoulders because what it meant was that the beautiful part about what the Duffer Brothers have done with Kate Trefry, the writer, producer of it for a long time and our writer for this show has done is that in the grandeur, in the spectacle, in the horror of it all, and particularly within this version of the story and this origin story, there is still levity, there's still love, there's still community. And so when you get to get, you know, arrive to moments where you see Hopper learning how to be a detective and trying his hand at being a detective, but still very much not having the skills to do so.

Or he's a kid. You know, it's way over his head. There's a really satisfying moment that happens every night with the audience. Because it is that awareness of, oh, I know that person, but he doesn't know him yet. And it's really beautiful, beautiful moment. And I have lots of fun getting to play that with my friend Graham up there on stage.

[27:04] Burke Swanson: Yeah, yeah. And you do get to also lean into your character, I think, specifically, a little bit more of the comedy of it and a little bit more of the levity, which you need, because it needs to break up all of the other chaos and everything else that's going on on that stage. Yeah, I mean, you saw Gabrielle Nevaeh, you saw, I mean, the stuff that they're doing in their part of the show. It's so funny, we are part of the same show, but I don't think I think I'm on stage with Louis maybe two or three times in the thing. But you know, what they're doing is a different aspect of the story. And their commitment to it is so high, so grounded, and so intense, that it just calls for us on the other end to, you know, do our part as well. It just comes out a little bit differently. It's a bit more comedic and a bit more fun.

[27:58] Eila Mell: You have a scene where you get to play two characters. And it's such a fun scene, but you're so good in it, like you have to be really skilled to do that, because the audience will get confused if they don't, you know, if it wasn't very specific. Can you talk about working on that scene with your directors?

[28:14] Burke Swanson: Sure. I mean, well, I'm very, very, very, very, very grateful that I got the chance to work on that scene with two of the best craftsmen within our industry. And then also to, furthermore, like have the support from Sonya Friedman and Netflix, who have both been extremely committed to an artistic process and giving it time to figure it out. Because you're totally right, from just a sheer technical standpoint, that scene is only lit by lights that I personally set up in the scene. There are two characters in that, three characters in that scene, two of which I play, is, has a hood over his head. There's a lot of things that could make that scene kitschy, that could make that scene forced, that could make that scene something that you sort of brush over and sort of like, just think of it purely as like, okay, this is filling space to give us back to the A-plot.

And nobody was interested in that. Everybody was interested, how can we further tell that story? And the version that I'm assuming you saw, I mean, changed three, four, five times in its entirety in terms of what was the setup? What is the guise? You know, not to give too much away, but, you know, very much inspired by just, you know, stunt therapy, sort of, at the end of it all. But there were many different versions about who were the different characters in that space. And, you know, that is this huge benefit of previews and huge benefit of creatives who are interested in continuing to create throughout those previews. It means that we get to tell the best story possible. And the version that we landed on is the best version that, you know, audiences seem to understand and react to.

But from a technical perspective, it is a beast. I mean, there's a lot of like, hey, you, yeah, you, you know, like you, not only my voice is different, but the posture and the physicality, which is just, you know, such a joy and such a rush to do every single night.

[30:13] Eila Mell: What a meaty scene to get to dig your teeth into. You're no stranger to, I guess, known properties and tech, you know, doing the tour for Back to the Future. What was that like to embody that story? Was it something you were familiar with as well?

[30:26] Burke Swanson: Well, I think what Back to the Future did for me was it introduced me to the real relationship of audience and ensemble. I mean, I'm very much of like a devised theater mindset that there are those only two characters and that it is the relationship between the two that creates the story. But when you have a story that is already so well known, and you know, Back to the Future is the movie, the first movie recreated for musical sensibility. So people know that story, you're only adding in certain elements of it. So what makes it worth their time to stay and to open themselves up to that story once more? Is it nostalgia? Is it purely that? Or is it possibly that they sort of get tricked into feeling these feelings for these characters once more?

And with George particularly, George McFly, you know, he's a very particular kind of guy. And he's not a very particular affectation. His physicality is where a lot of the humor is based in. He's extremely awkward. But at the end of the day, it's love, love, love, love, love. And I know that all the Georges who have, you know, had a chance to sort of play out that character, I think we all have a similar story. And it's one of the most beautiful stories ever. But it always remains true is that it is something very, very, very special. When grown men who have never seen a musical before decided to come to this show, first off. Number two is that when they get to the end, that climactic beat between Biff and George, and, you know, Lorraine in an immense amount of distress, what will George do?

Will he finally stand up against the bad guy? And in that moment, you have these, these grown men standing up truly yelling, come on, George, get him, George, come on. And that doesn't come from a place of I've seen this before, yada, yada, yada. That comes from actually caring about the story and actually caring about the character. And I think what's so beautiful about that, it was such an educational process for this project as well. You know, this isn't a recreation of season one, this isn't a musical, you know, there's a lot of things that are very different than Back to the Future. But at the end of the day, you know Hopper. And even if you don't know Hopper, you know about Hopper. And all of that is going to be in the space.

So, my job is to try to evoke the most sincere, honest, present breath within each night so that when you walk away from it, you're not saying, oh, I, you know, I went, I went to Times Square and I saw somebody doing an impersonation and all the same. It's like, let's actually explore what this character would be like. Let's see what new, newness there is to that space.

[33:09] Eila Mell: Well, and, and you were saying that while it's not a musical, you do get the chance to see some song and dance in the middle in, you know, within the story, which is a lot of fun and unexpected.

[33:18] Burke Swanson: Yeah, I mean, this show is like, it really holds no punches. I mean, if, look, if you aren't here for the spectacle of, you know, the, the, the most fantastic stage magic you've ever seen, if you're not here for, you know, an unbelievably grounded story, if you're not here for horror successfully being done on stage at a grand scale, then also there's a song and dance moment for you. You know what I'm saying? There's actually a couple. And I think what's so beautiful about it is like, this is a, this is a small town of people. We're talking about Bruce and Isla. I mean, on stage alone, it's 34 people, right? And then cover swings, understudies all going on every single night, every single night, because what people initially come to this show for is to feel like they're in Hawkins, the show on their TV.

Now they get the chance to be a part of the story and tell it with us, but they want to feel that sense of community. And so our directors and creative team were really committed to everybody being on stage every single night. And what that means is that every single person has to be committed to doing this. And you know, the music number is, is surprising for even us on stage, but every single time feels like it is conjured out of a very different space. But the, you know, the lore and the logic of the show allows for so much play, that everybody gets to be a part of that and really commit to that story. And, and without those ensemble members, I mean, it just, it just wouldn't work. It just wouldn't work if it was, you know, I think sometimes in musicals, there's the sensibility that the ensemble comes on and their pure job is to dance.

They come on, they do their dance number, they do some backup vocals, and then they leave. This ensemble is an integral part of the entirety of the story. And you can watch security guard from the left in every single scene. And Stephen Daldry has made sure that you will see a five-act play in every single space that you look at. Right. And I think that's like what that musical number is, is so lovely about is we are in a play and yet also we, there's so much to be in this play.

[35:21] Eila Mell: I think it's important to point out to people that, well, everything you're saying is 100% true. If you're familiar with the show, it's great, but you don't have to ever have seen the show to get every ounce of what you're giving in that show. You'll understand because Bruce and I came in with different perspectives. I had watched the series and he didn't, and we both loved it. And Bruce, let me not speak for you, but did you feel like you had missed anything?

[36:08] Bruce Gotlieb: No, I definitely didn't feel like I missed anything. And as I've talked to other people since seeing the show, to get them to go see the show, of course, I've said that if you've seen the show, there are little Easter eggs and there are things that you're going to pick up on that I didn't, but I didn't feel like I missed anything subsequently from not seeing it.

[36:18] Burke Swanson: I mean, Bruce, that's so fantastic because I think what it will showcase to people that Sonja Friedman is very adamant that this is an origin story. It's not a prequel.

[36:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, exactly.

[36:24] Burke Swanson: You don't need to know the lore and the characters to appreciate and understand it. I mean, that opening scene that we were talking about earlier in the school is an introduction, whether or not you know those people. A lot of these characters are the parents of our main characters from the show. So, you don't really actually know them too well, even if you have seen the TV show.

[36:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly, right.

[36:40] Burke Swanson: It's a beautiful, very inclusive opportunity for people going to the theater because, you know, it's really for everyone.

[36:45] Eila Mell: And you don't need to know that they're the parents. Like I, you know, I watched the whole show and, you know, I was trying to figure out who was related to who because I knew that just because I like that kind of thing. And then yesterday I was on Instagram and I saw a picture of Dora Dolphin and Carabono and I realized, oh, she's that character. It didn't even occur to me and it doesn't matter, but it's fun after the fact when you realize it.

[37:13] Burke Swanson: Well, I mean, Kate was writing season five at the same time as she was writing this play. So, you know, for fans of the show, really in many ways, like the amount of lore drops that are placed within this or the amount of Easter eggs that are occurring, not only that we know about, but that you don't know about. I mean, I can't wait. You really shouldn't see season five without seeing the show. I mean, that's like blatant honesty. But, you know, if this is the first time when you do watch the show, you're going to see all of these threads that have been further grounded, that have been further strengthened. You can understand, you know, Karen and Ted's relationship a bit more. You can have a bit more of appreciation or a bit of, you know, sort of a head shake moment when you see how it's playing out in their adult lives. That I think is really, really fun.

[37:59] Eila Mell: It is. It's so much fun. So I watched the Netflix documentary about mounting the London production. And I remember that moment where Kate came in and said, we have to cut 80% of the scripts because it's going to be a spoiler for season five. So I can't wait. Do you know? I'm not going to ask you what it is, but do you know what was cut?

[38:17] Burke Swanson: So many things. So many things. I think what it is, what's really beautiful about it is that the Duffer brothers have been integral to this process. I mean, this is their baby in so many ways. But, you know, Kate has been such an advocate for the story and for these characters for so long now that they really handed it to her and trust her. She wrote the story.

[38:36] Burke Swanson: That she thought people would want to see. And she put everything she had into our two acts or our two episodes of television, essentially, you know, that are happening on stage. And, you know, then when they made season five, they went, okay, how can we marry these two things together? So that you're not going to the theater and seeing exactly what you're going to see on screen, you're not seeing on screen what you're going to see in the theater. And what's beautiful about that is that they elevate each other. And that one is necessary for the other to fully exist. And so, yeah, yeah, you wouldn't want all those details. You wouldn't want all those details. I don't want anything spoiled. I want to watch it as it's supposed to be unfolded.

That's how I like to watch. And I would say, you know, for those out there who would love to sort of really come through, I mean, this fan base is really adamant about theories and all those sorts of things. I don't know if you include yourself in that. But I will say, you know, this show is chock-filled with pretty blatant explanations about what is happening within the world. But you've got to come through to find out what it is. It's not right. That's what I think is smart about Kate is that, you know, she's there's some there's a real tendency within television, but also theater sometimes where it's we forget to trust the audience. Forget that the audience is filled with really intelligent people who, from an intuitive standpoint, can understand emotion and logic and human beings.

And, you know, there's elements of, okay, this is a lot of detail that we have to remind people about. But on the deeper, grander standpoint, it is really up to the audience to have that relationship that they want to have with it.

[40:12] Kevin Solak: Hi, this is Kevin Solak, and we'll be right back with Behind the Awards.

[40:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Do you remember when you guys first, I guess, as cast members, maybe especially those of you that aren't involved in some of the elaborate tech going on? At what point did you guys get the visual of it? Was it as it was unfolding for everybody? Or did the creative team sit down and let everybody see it so you guys can have your, you know, mind-blowing moments and then get back to work?

[40:39] Burke Swanson: It was a bit of a dance of all the things, you know, I mean, we had this really beautiful diorama created for the space so that we could understand the stage, but also some of the bigger, we'll say elements. Some of the things that are coming from all different directions, just have an understanding of like what the size of those things would be, but also how they would interact with us on stage. And then on top of that, you know, our props team, so fantastic, was really committed to trying to build as much of the things in the space, or at least the shapes of them. But yeah, you know, like when you have a Demogorgon doing their vocal warmups, all of your rehearsal space, like, I don't know how much preparation you can do.

Oh, this is not like any other job that I'm possibly ever going to do again. You know, that didn't happen at The Rose Tattoo. Strangely enough, the flamingos, you know, about the back parts that didn't come to life and start talking, you know, it didn't take anybody's heads off. So, you know, yeah, no, it's a little bit a little bit of a different experience. But yeah, I mean, there are some elements in this show that I'm backstage every day. I've watched it from the front. I've watched it from the side. I've watched it from the back. I still truly, truly do not understand how they're working. Everything you've seen on stage before, you know, this is the same creative team who brought Harry Potter: Cursed Child to life.

They've taken that and gone further. This is the most complicated, grand show you're ever going to see on Broadway today. With the most up-to-date technology, too. With the most up-to-date technology. I mean, some of the most, like, just unbelievably mind-bending effects. And really what it does is I think it takes your imagination and takes it a step further, which is just, it's kind of surreal that's even possible. Yeah, because when you see it on TV or, you know, you're watching it unfold, you're like, well, it's TV. So there's a little bit more of a suspension of belief and they could do things in post and there's more tricks that you have available. But when you're sitting there in the audience and you know that it's happening live around you guys and it's just, it really does, it just blows your mind that this is actually happening and it's not, you know, behind a screen that is, you know, plugged into the wall and it's not make-believe. It's reality.

[43:03] Burke Swanson: Yeah, I think in that, and to your point, Bruce, on that, when we had our opening night and people were just asking what it was feeling like and it was this really intense sense of joy because, you know, like I said, there are 34 people on stage. 20 of those people are making their Broadway debuts. Wow. That's just what you're seeing, right? So now we have an entire backstage. We have one of the best crews on Broadway working tirelessly. It is a dance. Like, you think that choreography on stage was intense. Working backstage, I mean, you've got multi-ton set pieces flying around and they're there to keep us safe, to keep it moving, to keep it efficient, to be able to roll with the punches, right?

To me, what is so special about it is for a show that did not have to be a celebration of theater, it is. It could have purely relied on the fact that we're one of the biggest IPs from the streaming era. You're going to come see this show purely because of the name and that's all you're going to come for and that's all we're going to give you. And because you have so many people who are committed to this art form and to this craft, I really hope that, you know, people who identify as the theater-goer, you know, who are often in the theater and see, you know, Buena Vista and they see John Proctor and they see these other things that are happening on stage right now and they come to Stranger Things and they go, oh, what a beautiful expression of theater as well.

[44:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, Burke, I'm a big snob and I loved it. I've been listening to some of your episodes and I really loved, what was the conversation? It was from English, Marjan.

[44:33] Burke Swanson: Oh, yeah. Marjan. And Marjan, it was like, it was so lovely to listen to. I mean, it's like, clearly three people who love theater talking about theater and talking about art. So that's why I'm so happy to be here. And so I'm well aware and the fact that, you know, I hope that your listeners know that as well, because you all are telling them about your experience in that space. And I think it is just as important as somebody who has never seen a show, because I think what's the stat right now? It's like, I think 65% of our ticket goers right now have never seen a Broadway show before.

[45:03] Bruce Gotlieb: That's amazing.

[45:04] Burke Swanson: And that's such a service that you're doing to the Broadway community, because, you know, it's vital that new people come and discover it. So when we were in the audience, we were surrounded by super fans of the show and it made it so much fun. And they were on the edge of this, literally, the woman sitting next to me was invading my space because she was so excited. And it was okay. I got it. I understood. I was talking, I was talking with some friends from Broadway World, and they were, they were talking about being in the show. And at intermission, they just turned and were having conversations with people in the space. And it reminds me of, I feel maybe, maybe it's just not what I've been experiencing as of late.

But there was a time where you went to the theatre alone, and you went to go talk to the people who happened to buy a ticket next to you. You know, there was this moment of like, let's discuss Act One. And let's see, let's anticipate what Act Two is, right? And this show does that, because people are so jacked for it that they don't know what to do with it, but create the community that the Duffer brothers were trying to insinuate from the very beginning. I mean, it's just, it's theatre maxim, really, really, absolutely. And because we have to wait so long in between seasons, people are so happy to get some more Stranger Things, even though it's not exactly the same thing. But it's, you know, if you're a fan of the show, it's gonna satisfy you so much.

But I just want to point out that it's very much a play that's rooted in reality. And it has, you know, these incredible effects, but it's still it's not, it's not like you're going to Universal Studios and seeing Stranger Things, you know, it's a real play. And it's just it delivers on every level.

[46:51] Burke Swanson: Yeah, I mean, the story aspect of it was, you know, we tried to have as much of the prop elements within the rehearsal room, because that's what we interact with. But at the end of the day, what was told to us again, and again, and again, is that when we walk into the theatre, and these tech elements are there, you have to realize that that cannot tell the story. That is in addition to what we are doing in the room. And that is why, you know, I mentioned, like, you know, second security guard from the left, right? Like, that is a person, Ruben. And I kid you not in the room, I mean, literal hours spent on background work in terms of, you know, there's a moment in the church scene where you'll see us in the back that we call coffee and cake, right?

And it's most of the cast in the back milling about post church service. And I mean, we spent hours on that moment, because they didn't want to just have bodies on stage. It doesn't matter if a Demogorgon comes out, or if you know, if some set piece doesn't work, or some element of magic misfires, it should still be grounded, it should still tell the story. And we should still be pushing, in this case, you know, Henry along in his journey. And so what can we do on a ground level to do that? I mean, you got to look at this cast, like, yeah, 20 are making their Broadway debut. But like, look at the other 14 people. I mean, my God, I mean, the resumes on those folks, I mean, should tell you that these are people who are giving who know how to build character who know how to be present on stage and to fill a big house like the marquee theater. And they do it every single night. And they're by proxy are teaching all of us how to deepen that craft every single time.

[48:36] Bruce Gotlieb: You guys are pushing the way stories are told, which I think is important. And a lot of shows on Broadway this season are doing that in their own way. Yes. But you guys are doing it not only in storytelling, which you just explained, but also in the tech side, which we've discussed, it's exciting to see the evolution of theater. And, you know, to know, with all of these shows and all of these creatives that are going on in the theater district that, you know, theater is in good hands with all of you, collectively, because we're pushing the medium forward to discover what we can do.

[49:07] Burke Swanson: One of our swings, Malcolm, we were having lunch the other day. And he I think he really said it best that he was just said, it's so exciting to feel like we're a part of the next generation of theater. And that's not only on like, from a craft standpoint, but that is from a sense of the people, you know, I mean, there's so much. It's a whole different conversation, or probably a whole different podcast about which this industry from a working perspective from, you know, like, from a labor perspective, from a financial perspective, how those things can be changed and made better and more equitable for people, right? Like, that is its own thing. And also, the fact that we are continuing to push the art form within a structure that is very confined in many ways, that isn't necessarily from a business standpoint, very creative or collaborative in that standpoint.

And the fact that people have still been able to push the form forward is, to me, just so, so, so exciting. And makes me just endlessly grateful to be a part of it. Because every show that I've seen this season, you know, I'm seeing after doing previews and rehearsal, I'm going on my one day off, because it's that important.

[50:40] Burke Swanson: Yeah. And if you've been away from the theater scene, or if you've, if you've felt misguided by the theater community, you know, and you feel like I'm not seeing new stories, I'm not seeing fresh takes on these stories, like now's your chance. Now's your chance, because we got a little bit of everything. And if you're new, if you're new, this is your way in, because this show appeals to such a wide variety of people. And I also want to point out that this show is not one of those shows that cost, you know, like, as much as a car to go see it.

[50:53] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right.

[50:54] Burke Swanson: You know, what's really beautiful is Sonya is very committed to trying to make theater as accessible as possible. I mean, I do think that there's a long conversation about like, what should ticket prices be and all of those things. You know, not every show is is good luck, good night, not every show is Othello. And, you know, kudos to those folks, you know, let Denzel get his coin, you know what I'm saying? Like, please, you know, just like, these people have done a lot of work in their career, and they're bringing a different group of people to the theater. And that is as important as any of the other ones, right? Like, Jon Proctor has...

[52:29] Burke Swanson: On Stage 2, do you remember the moment where you had that lightbulb, that switch went off and you were like, this is what I need to do. This is my life's work. You know, I think the classic answer that I give to that question is, you know, I was a big soccer fiend, swim fiend, you know, I was big sports. My dad was all about getting us outside and everything else. And in fourth grade or the summer before fourth grade, my teacher put me to this like overnight leadership camp. It was like a two-week overnight camp that I went to and there was a talent show in the middle and one of my roommates definitely had the theater bug. I think his parents were like South Korean film directors. I haven't been able to figure out his last name.

I can't remember. I'm like, who is this beautiful soul who gifted me this opportunity? And we ended up doing this like random standup routine. And maybe it was 100 people. Maybe it was not even that. But it was such a rush. And I didn't even have the language where I just came home and I said, mom, I don't know what that is, but I have to do that. And luckily, you know, my mother just wanting to be committed to her kids and having the ability and the flexibility to be able to do so. She really went all in and it pushed me forward. But, you know, I think about probably a couple of years later after that, going to the Kennedy Center and having seen musicals, I had seen John Williams perform there.

You know, I had seen these really beautiful things. But my mom had tickets to I think it was like a traveling Irish rep of like a series of three one acts or something like that. Right. And I went and I realized I had never seen a play before. I've never seen a play before. And to be frank, I really didn't understand what was happening. I really couldn't. I really couldn't. There were so many things that my little brain at the time just like could not compute. But I've seen people breathe life in the same their own physical body, but be completely different in every single act that they did. And even though maybe I couldn't fully understand the accent or the language, by the end of the third one act, I was able to understand and then like found myself like connected to all the same things that they were doing.

And it was this really kind of magical moment where I was completely engrossed in something that I from an outside perspective didn't really understand. And that was the moment where I went, Oh, wow. Oh, wow, there's so much going on. And then you, yeah, you pair that with like, you know, I'm a big, like, I love performance art, Marina Abramovich, you know, Bob Wilson, you know, sort of stuff like that, like those things are really intriguing to me. And I had a chance to do like a month of devised theater with people who are literally still the screen saver of my laptop, like to this day. Wow, it's been over a decade. And like, they're still the people that I look back to, because that sense of collaboration, that sense of ensemble, that sense of inclusivity through storytelling, the we instead of the I, those are the things that I think make this a lifelong thing for me.

[55:36] Eila Mell: It really is. You know, I want to get back to Netflix. What I think is so great about them is that they have such a sense of humor about themselves. And it shows in the show, I don't want to give anything away, because there's like a huge laugh that comes. But you know, there's just these little things. And what is it like partnering with, you know, I mean, Netflix, it's this huge company. It's a huge, it's a huge company, like we had our opening night party. And I got to tell you, like over half the people at that party, I had no idea who they were. And I knew they had like a very, you know, important part of this process, whether they were a part of the creative side, or whether they were contributing money to ensure that this piece of art got to exist in the way that it needed to, all of those things are important.

But when you have a massive company like that, you don't really expect the care and attention to detail that they have, you know, there's always a point in previews where it sort of begins to be handed over to the audience. And at that moment, that's when sort of your producers come in, and they start to give their feedback and everything else. And I've heard a lot of stories from folks who have done this for a lot longer than I have, who, you know, that's always the moment where you're like, Oh, yeah, they really haven't been in the room. They really don't know what's going on. They don't really understand what we're doing here. And I'm very happy to say that, you know, their notes and their interest in coming to the show is because they cared about it as much as we did on the ground.

And, you know, you don't necessarily have to agree with every single note, but you can and must understand that we are telling the story together, and that their names on it, you know, their names on it, right? And this is, I think they would be remiss to know if you know, or to not realize that Stranger Things is one of the biggest shows that they've had.

[57:19] Burke Swanson: Exactly. You know, that certainly helps in the care and attention to detail. But I really think that Sonya has created a relationship with that production company, that meant that artists got to do their job. And Netflix is so willing to sort of say, Okay, go do your job and show us what you've got. So obviously, you know, as an actor, you're not necessarily in those rooms as it's happening, but at least from the outside in terms of how they've taken care of us, and how they've sort of stepped in when they've needed to in terms of when things go, you know, differently on the ground. I've been very impressed. I've been very impressed. And for anybody who's confused as to why Netflix has a show on Broadway, I can assure you that they're making their best attempt to be an advocate for that space as much as they are on TV.

[58:07] Eila Mell: Yeah, that's great. So you have two directors for this show, which is unusual. What is the reason for two?

[58:13] Burke Swanson: Stephen Daldry, one of the greats, I'll keep saying it. One of the greats. He just, wait, but not only one of the best in theater, but also film. You know, when I say greats, I'm referring to life. I mean, everything, you know, brilliant. He's, I say this with so much love. He's so baddie in so many different ways. But I think that baddiness is just a sign classically of his genius. But exactly. He's really unpretentious, which is kind of surreal to say about somebody who has done so much and has been, you know, from an outside perspective, so successful and so much, right, I was talking to him about The Inheritance. I didn't, I hadn't realized at the time that they had done that, that show.

And it's one of my favorite shows I've ever seen. And I had had such an intense experience with that. And he was talking about it from like, Oh, well, these people weren't a huge fan of it. And these people weren't a huge fan of it. And like, this was what it was like it did it. But when you got to the heart of it, you could see that part of him was still with that show. Yeah, I was still with that show. Because what Stephen does in the room is he's not interested in having the idea. He's interested in having the idea, meaning it can come from anybody. And there's a notorious story that is remains to be true is that, you know, he, after one of the previews, let everybody leave, and he waited in the house.

And when the janitorial staff came out, he gathered all of them, and asked them what they thought of the show. And then that was the last preview. And he instituted the notes that they gave. And that was what led to the final take. And so when you have him then paired with another master of the craft, who is Justin Martin, whose sense of play, like I just have been so impressed by and just so gleeful by, since literally the you know, the first time that I interacted with him, you have these two people who are able to bounce off of each other. You know, there were scenes that were definitely sort of handed over to Justin is sort of like, these are your scenes. And then there are times in which Stephen stepped in and Justin stepped in to the other ones, you know, it's a real beautiful collaboration that they have at the core of this process.

And then you add Kate Trefry in there, who was really integral into the room. And she was in every single rehearsal every single day, not only contributing just sort of like context, but also writing with and for us. They were really committed to not redoing this from London. They wanted to take what they had learned in London, and they wanted to take it to the next step further, and let it continue to be the best story possible. And so what that meant is that a lot of changes happened throughout the entire time. It wasn't just like previews, we started getting new pages. I mean, I probably have like 20,000 versions of this script alone. And I can't even imagine what's on Kate's laptop. The encyclopedia of knowledge that this woman has to me is just always floored me.

But I think the dynamic of the offstage trio that they are, I mean, you know, you show you can appreciate that the Bob Joyce and the Hopper of it all. You know, they fit that so well. And for that to be your epicenter, and to that be your core, it makes it it's actually really difficult. It's really difficult to not have that spread out.

[1:01:19] Eila Mell: And how integral that Kate is part of the series as well. She creates the series with the Duffer Brothers. So that's so important that she really knows the show in a way that no one else could know the show.

[1:01:31] Burke Swanson: Yeah, I mean, like, we're talking about somebody who's been having work dreams about this series for, you know, a long time, right? And, you know, I think what was really beautiful about our process is that every time that she does this, it reignites her passion for it. This is something she has been doing for a while, right? Like, yeah, you would think, okay, I know where these characters are going to end. What more is there to do? I like literally two days ago, I was sitting down having a conversation with her about the finite detail about how do you say, I love you, but also, you know, I don't want you in the same sentence. And how can we do that within a scene? And it is a really fine tightrope. And she wants to make it as easy as possible for us.

[1:02:13] Burke Swanson: One of the coolest moments was there was a week there where they sort of have like a whole new idea for the trio specifically. And we were essentially pulled away from the rest of the group. And we just worked every single day working new scenes, three new versions of scenes every single day, just like cycling, cycling, and we're spending like an hour on a single joke to see if it would add to the rest of the story. And what would that change the context. And there was a moment where I got new pages, I'm quickly trying to just get into my brain so that I can kind of leave them behind and see if the joke works. And she runs over and goes, I forgot something and puts a final word in there. And it was the word that I was thinking about trying to get myself to memorize it.

Wow, that just does not happen all the time. And the fact that unpretentiousness to be willing to say like, Hey, what do you have? Okay, that's better than what I've got. Or Hey, I know what you think is better. But when I tell you I wrote it for you. Trust me. Trust. Next, please just trust the text. And I mean, what more could you want? What more? Nothing. I mean, nothing. You can't top that. No.

[1:03:18] Eila Mell: Oh, Burke, thank you so much for joining us. We can go on and talk to you for hours.

[1:03:22] Burke Swanson: I know. And maybe we'll have to meet up at some point and just have a 10-hour conversation. I mean, like you were saying before, at TR Night, he was so, so excited for me to jump on here, because he was like, this is going to be, you know, one of your only interviews in which you actually get to discuss the thing in its entirety and really get to unpack what's going on here. And so really kudos to the both of you for creating space for us to get to be able to do that. And anytime you like, I'm totally down. And I'm sure to work with you as well. So you know, cheers to both of you. Thank you.

[1:04:03] Eila Mell: Thank you. Well, once you're on our show, you know, you're just part of our team. So awesome. Can't wait. Call me anything you need. Anything you need promoted. You want to come on and talk about? Well, everyone, do yourself a huge favor. Go see Stranger Things. And we will see everyone next time on Behind the Awards. Bye bye.