This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:13] Eila Mell: Hello and welcome to Behind the Awards. I'm Eila. I am here with my trusty Bruce. Hello there.

[0:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Hello, Eila. How are you doing today?

[0:22] Eila Mell: I'm good. We both had the pleasure. Well, for me, it was a pleasure. We'll get we'll see what you think of seeing Billy Crystal's show, 860. What did you think?

[0:33] Bruce Gotlieb: I thought it was excellent. I mean, Billy Crystal is really the consummate storyteller. You know, he really balances humor and heart and emotion and, you know, really, really, probably better than most people do.

[0:52] Eila Mell: Yeah, I agree. And, you know, ironically, the show, part of the show is about him becoming a storyteller and learning how to do that. But, you know, it's also very much about his home in the Palisades that he lost in the fires. And I agree with you. He's just he's so likable, just inherently likable. He's got a quality that you want to watch. You know, I always say that like a one person show for me is kind of tough because I tend to feel like it's monotonous, but not this, not for a second. And he doesn't stop. There's no once he steps on that stage. It's, you know, his foot's on the gas and he's going for the full 90 minutes.

[1:36] Bruce Gotlieb: I know. I think there's a couple of moments where he stops for some, you know, video and some presentational type things. But yeah, it's not much time.

[1:43] Eila Mell: No, it's not much time. The projections in the videos are fantastic. Did you so we had this conversation not on the show, but in our actual real lives where I didn't realize when I went in that that whole back wall is a projection with photos on it. I thought it was an actual wall with, you know, 3D photos, but it's not. It's so well done.

[2:06] Bruce Gotlieb: It's so well done. The other thing I thought was really great, too, was when he was talking about certain things on the sidewalls that also had things hanging, because, yeah, basically it was as though he was putting this presentation on from the office of his in his house. Yeah. When he was talking about certain things like the Kennedy Center Honors, the picture frame that had the ribbons that they all get was lit. And then when he's talking about something else, that picture was lit. So it really helped you because, like you said, with a one person show, your focus is on one thing. So it helps give your eye somewhere else to go and just kind of help with the flow of things. I thought.

[2:49] Eila Mell: Right. And it's also such a subtle way for us to acknowledge that, you know, this is how lighting is telling the story too. It's like all the elements together. It's not just Billy Crystal is this great storyteller, which he is so much. But, you know, so many of the elements help in ways that most people don't even notice.

[3:11] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. And you need you need the other elements to be engaged.

[3:15] Eila Mell: Right. Of course. You know, it's beautifully directed by Scott Ellis.

[3:19] Bruce Gotlieb: It really is. And it's just, you know. You can't get Billy Crystal without a little humor, right? That's just a lot of mainly who he is. Right. He's just a funny person. You know, just the way he says certain things like, you know, it's really good. But you got not only the story of his family and this house that they made a life in, but you also got stories that you may or may not have heard before about his relationship with Muhammad Ali and how close they were and Robin Williams and Rob Reiner. And, you know, it just really told you who he was at the core of a person and, and like you said, how he started his career.

[4:04] Eila Mell: And I think it's just really expertly done. And really, more than anything, for me, it's a love story between he and his wife, Janice, who has been by his side ever since he started and, you know, produced this show, produced many of his Broadway shows.

[4:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. You know, is very much his partner in life, also in business. And in the playbill, too, when you go and you sit down, you open up the playbill. There's a little note from his children.

[4:32] Eila Mell: Oh, I didn't even notice that.

[4:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, that they, you know, the telling of the story and, you know, and their parents and their father. And it's just it's a quick little thing, a little note. But it just it set you up for like, for the heart of the piece. You know, it's very much a family show. You know, I have a very jaded friend who won't see it because he said, what do I care about a millionaire losing his house? But it's really not about that at all.

[5:00] Eila Mell: No. You know, it's a we all have experienced loss, and that's part of what it is. And but it is about family. And it is about his career. And, you know, especially if you're someone who grew up watching his movies, it will mean something to you personally.

[5:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. And, you know, he may be, you know, very well off now, but it also tells you and shows you that where they started and that they, you know, the stretch financially to decide to buy this house, you know, and at a time when even that area probably wasn't built up to what it is or what it was known for.

[5:36] Eila Mell: Right. So it just it really does. And I think that if you have the opportunity to see it while it's running, you definitely should. I believe that I don't know when the classification comes out, Tony wise. I think there's some classification that's like considered a special event, I believe I read. So it'll be interesting to see once, you know, the committee start meeting and those things start unfolding as we get closer to Tony season, how this factors in.

[6:07] Bruce Gotlieb: I would think anyway, that we could look at what happened with 700 Sundays and see if it that's true, you know, what categories that was in. But for me, this was just a perfect piece of entertainment, a perfect show. It was really good. And, you know, he's obviously it's selling out. I mean, it's Billy Crystal people just to be there, to see him do something live.

[6:28] Eila Mell: Yeah. I think people, regardless of what the story is, you know, to be able to see a legend of his stature live on stage is what people want.

[6:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. And he's just, you know, at the heart of it, a kind, humble guy. And that's, you know, so people will like that now. So, you know, if you grew up with Billy Crystal, you will have a lot of nostalgia. But if you were a kid growing up in the 90s, or not even a kid, if you were around in the 90s, you know, you couldn't help. But no, even if you didn't watch it, you knew all about Dawson's Creek.

[7:04] Eila Mell: That's right. That's right. And we are thrilled, excited, you know, name the adjective that you'd like, right, that we were able to have a conversation with Kerr Smith, regarding the memoir that he wrote, I Don't Want to Wait about, you know, his life on Dawson's Creek, and, you know, the filming the behind the scenes, kind of what they went through, and that slice of a time when they were kind of all in this little town, and they had their own little bubble and what that was, what that was like for him to experience.

[7:17] Bruce Gotlieb: All right, Eila, I don't want to wait, let's bring him out.

[7:46] Eila Mell: It's Andrew Keenan-Bolger, behind the awards, we'll be right back.

[7:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, Eila, I know that Dawson's Creek is a favorite show of yours.

[7:55] Eila Mell: 100%.

[7:56] Bruce Gotlieb: So, I know, so you are especially excited today, because we are welcoming Kerr Smith.

[8:03] Kerr Smith: Hello there.

[8:04] Kerr Smith: Hey, guys, how are you?

[8:05] Eila Mell: We are wonderful. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to chat with us a bit. Congratulations on your book, I Don't Want to Wait, My Life on Dawson's Creek.

[8:16] Kerr Smith: Yeah, very excited about it. Yep, comes out in about a month. So it's gonna be, it's gonna be crazy.

[8:22] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, sure will.

[8:23] Kerr Smith: November 10th. But people can pre-order it, can't they?

[8:27] Kerr Smith: Yeah, it's been up on Amazon and Barnes & Noble and whatnot for about a month now for pre-orders.

[8:32] Eila Mell: Isn't it fun to watch those Amazon numbers?

[8:35] Kerr Smith: That's always fun, yeah.

[8:38] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm sure it's doing well already. But you know, once it really hits, then then it would be like night and day, I think.

[8:44] Eila Mell: When you first got cast, I guess when this going way back, did you have any idea of the, because you joined in season two. So was there any idea that this would become what it has, in terms of just, you know, culturally and, you know, within TV, you know, landscape of it all?

[9:02] Kerr Smith: No, I mean, it was obviously quite a whirlwind when I joined because everything in terms of the show becoming popular happened between season one and season two, right? So it happened that summer before I got there. In fact, I remember Josh Jackson, the first thing I'd never even met the guy and first thing he says to me is, well, get ready, your life's about to change. He was right. A couple months later, after my scene started airing, everything changed. But no, I mean, I don't think any of us really had an idea of the impact that it would have on American culture. I mean, it was just, for me, it was a special time. And it's just an iconic, it's an iconic show that kind of just did some things on network television that had never really been done before. And I think that's one of the reasons for its success.

[9:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. And your character, especially, was involved in doing some of those things.

[9:55] Kerr Smith: Yeah, for sure. But not just Jack. I mean, you know, even all the stuff we had conversations about Andy McPhee, I mean, tackling mental illness, Pacey and the teacher, like that's not really a that's kind of a taboo topic. It's not really something that normally happens. But I mean, we were hitting things that were not really talked about on television. I think that, you know, has really found its way into people's homes. And they loved it.

[10:18] Eila Mell: What was the impetus for writing this book?

[10:21] Kerr Smith: Well, I think everybody knows Dawson's Creek, right? But nobody really knows the family of Dawson's Creek, and what went on behind the scenes and our lives in Wilmington in that time. Like I said, it was such an iconic time and an iconic show. And I just thought, in addition to my unique experience on the show, having played Jack McPhee and being the first gay character on primetime in America, I just thought, you know what, I've got a story to tell here. I think people will really enjoy it. And I decided to write the thing.

[10:54] Eila Mell: And that was before the reunion you guys had recently, somewhat recently.

[10:57] Kerr Smith: Oh, yeah, that was, that was about a year I started this whole, there's been a two year process. And I started about a year before the reunion.

[11:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[11:05] Kerr Smith: Was it hard to, obviously, you have all these memories and all these stories, you know, to whittle it down, obviously, to can't share everything, because the book can't be the, you know, war and peace, you know?

[11:19] Kerr Smith: Yeah, it's already over 400 pages. And we didn't, you know, I couldn't share everything. But yeah, it was tough to whittle it down. You know, there are actors involved in the show that I would have loved to include more, but just I just didn't have the time. I mean, I don't know, take casting, for instance, I have three chapters on casting, because you've got the core four, you got Mary Beth, Mary Margaret and John, and then there's a chapter on when Meredith and I joined. So, and the casting stories, I bring them up because they're great things I never, never knew. I think those are the most fun stories. I wrote two books on just casting stories alone.

[11:55] Eila Mell: Oh, wow. Okay.

[12:00] Kerr Smith: The Almosts that happened on Dawson’s Creek, or that didn’t happen?

[12:30] Eila Mell: Can you imagine how different Dawson’s Creek would have been?

[12:34] Kerr Smith: Yeah, so different. One little piece of that puzzle changes the whole dynamic. That’s what made it so great. It was a special time with a special group of people that just kind of gelled. You can’t really recreate that. It’s great casting, but at the same time, you got your fingers crossed going, I hope this works out really, really well. For us, it did. We just all got along and gelled.

[13:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Also, do you think because you were sort of secluded away from Hollywood, that it made the show better because you bonded in a different kind of way?

[13:09] Kerr Smith: Katie calls it her bubble. I call it Camp Dawson’s Creek. If we were in Hollywood, it would have been a much different scenario. So yeah, you’re 100% right. We probably would have gotten in trouble. Everybody would have been living their own lives and blah, blah, blah. But in Wilmington, some of the casts were pretty young, like Michelle and even Katie was pretty young. You’ll find out that they felt very protected because the crew was their family. Their crew was, hey, you got to go to the dentist. You got to do this. You got to get your car tuned up or whatever because they didn’t have any family members there to tell them those kinds of things. So it was a very camp type of atmosphere and I think it definitely contributed to the success of the show for sure.

[13:57] Eila Mell: Did you know when you first joined on the arc that Jack was going to go on or did you have any sit down conversations in helping have a hand in that?

[14:08] Kerr Smith: So the only person that had an inkling of where Jack was going eventually was Kevin Williamson. The network didn’t know, the studio didn’t know, and the actor that played him certainly didn’t know. I was hired to create chaos between Dawson and Joey. If you remember in the beginning, I was Joey’s boyfriend. When you bring somebody in to break up the main characters, it ain’t going to last that long. People aren’t going to like them. One of the things Kevin said in his interviews was we wanted to make Jack likable first. We wanted people to fall in love with this character first because he knew, only he knew, that he was going to go down this road. He didn’t break it to me probably until about three months into the job, probably episode 207, 208, somewhere in there.

[14:55] Eila Mell: It’s interesting because when you play a character, you figure out who this person is and many people do a character history for themselves. When something like that changes, how does that affect your look at the character?

[15:15] Kerr Smith: It does. For me, Jack was somewhat two different people. It does happen a lot in television because even the writers haven’t really figured out who a character is yet. With a change like that, it’s a big deal. One of the things I did tell Kevin or ask really was, look, I’m going to play Jack straight. I do not want to fall into any of the stereotypes. I don’t want to play any clichés. Back in 1998, that was very easy to do because that’s what everybody knew. I didn’t want to do that. I wanted to be true to the experience and hopefully be a role model for some of the kids that are going through similar things as Jack. That was the plan. We weren’t going to change him. We weren’t going to change his clothes.

We weren’t going to change his hair, although we did change his hair a little bit, which is for the better because I think it was pretty bad in the beginning anyway. I think Jack’s personality did change a little bit. I played much more of a nerdy, kind of uncomfortable-ish kind of kid in the beginning. Then as the character developed, he became more secure with himself because he was figuring himself out throughout the entire five years I was there. It was a process.

[16:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Was it hard for you, obviously being older than the character was when you’re cast? Isla and I had a discussion about this, looking at people that get cast to play high school students that aren’t obviously in high school. Was that an interesting dynamic to navigate?

[16:50] Kerr Smith: Meredith and I came in and we were certainly older than everybody else there, but I think I was 27 or 28 when I started and Michelle was 15 when she started. I think James was the oldest. I think he was 20 when he went in season one. I’ve never really considered age, honestly. I could hang out with somebody that’s 70 or somebody that’s 20 and it’s no different to me, so it was no different back then either.

[17:18] Eila Mell: How much of Kevin, or if any, was Jack?

[17:22] Kerr Smith: Kevin once said to me, every character, at least all the main characters on the show, represent a facet of his personality, the core four for sure. We knew that Kevin wasn’t in the closet, but he was publicly not really speaking about his sexuality too much and he wanted to, so I knew that his sexuality wasn’t really represented in one of his characters yet. I had a feeling that’s where he was going to go with the conversation and sure enough, that’s what happened. It made sense that he wanted to take Jack down that avenue, is how he put it.

[18:06] Eila Mell: What an honor to get to be the person to play that character, the first on television.

[18:11] Kerr Smith: Yeah, I mean, of course, in hindsight, I’m going absolute full-blown honor, but in the moment, it was scary as hell, as you can imagine.

[18:22] Bruce Gotlieb: Did you think that you’d be pigeonholed with casting?

[18:25] Kerr Smith: For sure, yeah. I was very worried about that because back in 1998, it wasn’t really, you’re not going to find any, especially straight actors that are going to play a role like that, you just weren’t going to find it. I think maybe that was part of his plan, to be honest with you, is to not do it out of the gate, which was very smart.

[18:46] Kerr Smith: I think on the day that he told me, I said, look, just give me 24 hours to think about it. Let me call some people. I got on the phone after the meeting and called everybody I respected and said, look, this is what they want to do with the character. What do you think? I called my dad, my sister, representation, everybody, and they all thought about it and said, do it. So I did it, got back to Kevin about not even probably 10 hours later, later that day, and said, I’m in.

[19:16] Eila Mell: How was the response with the first kiss and all of that? I imagine the craziness that you had initially then was amplified even more once that episode aired.

[19:27] Kerr Smith: Yeah, part of the deal was, and this wasn’t a deal with me, I just was along for the ride. This was the deal with the network, apparently, with Kevin is that they would do one kiss a year. So the one you’re referring to, obviously, is the first one with Adam Kaufman. I fully cover that in the book because it was so incredibly interesting to have. At the time, I was like this. I have a job. I’ve got my blinders on. This is what I need to do. If I think about what I’m doing too much, I’m going to freak out. So I just went in there and I did my job the best that I possibly knew how at that point in my career. Now, looking back and hearing everything that was going on, now I understand that there were writer producers on set that were talking to writer producers in Los Angeles, that were talking to network executives and studio executives on the day, and all of them were saying something different.

You better make sure you shoot it from across the street. You better make sure we see tongue. You better make sure blah, blah, blah. It just became this craziness that I had no idea. I think they did that on purpose because obviously, they didn’t want Adam and I to have to worry about anything other than what we were with the task at hand. It’s a very interesting read to see what actually happened that day.

[20:50] Eila Mell: The book itself is your story, but then it’s also a deep dive into the show. It’s so rare that an actor on the show actually does that kind of book. Usually, it’s an independent writer who is writing about the show itself. It’s a little different because it is a memoir of sorts in the beginning. It’s about my life and how I got involved in acting and how I got the job and all that. I’d say it’s 95% on Dawson’s Creek, but you’re a little birdie on my shoulder going through that experience with me.

[21:28] Kerr Smith: It’s great because we want to know who the guy is. A hundred percent. You’re right, but there are chapters. I did do chapters on deep dives, like you said, on some of the more popular episodes like the pilot and the finale and the two episodes where Jack comes out and decisions on the end of season one. Some of the big ones because people really like to have those dissected and examined and have the actors actually talk about what they were thinking and feeling in the scene, if they can remember 30 years ago.

[22:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. Well, the fans remember.

[22:03] Kerr Smith: They remember, sure, but what was actually going on in Katie’s head and the scene of the chain link fence with her father and decisions. I mean, it’s like, I was scared to death. Is she going to remember?

[22:14] Eila Mell: Sure.

[22:15] Kerr Smith: Am I going to remember? Because my memory is not that great anymore either.

[22:18] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[22:18] Kerr Smith: It was fun to explore these things that happened so long ago that we really haven’t thought about together and kind of remember this all over again.

[22:27] Bruce Gotlieb: But then getting the story cumulatively from the cast and the crew, you probably had so much filled in for you.

[22:34] Kerr Smith: Well, yeah. One of the things I learned, which is really weird, and I actually addressed it in the prologue because it was so common, nobody remembers the same thing the same way. It’s crazy. Things that I’m like, this is the way it happened, dude. I guarantee you. And they’re like, nope, this is the way it went down for me. So it’s very strange. Very strange.

[22:57] Bruce Gotlieb: What are some of your favorite episodes of Dawson's Creek?

[23:00] Kerr Smith: Obviously, I really liked That Is The Question and To Be Or Not To Be. Those are the two episodes where Jack comes out. Those are clearly my favorites because I had the most fun work to do in those. I really liked, the name of it's escaping me now, but it's the end of season three. Bruce, you're a big fan, so maybe you'll remember. It was the finale of season three. It's the one where Grams, Andy, Jack and Jen in the car and we're running around.

[23:26] Bruce Gotlieb: What's the one actually where we do the first kiss? I just can't remember the name of the title.

[23:30] Kerr Smith: True Love.

[23:30] Bruce Gotlieb: True Love. That's what it is. Yes. Thank you. Of course, that makes sense.

[23:33] Kerr Smith: That's one of my favorites. I mean, the finale, for sure, because it was just so, so heartbreaking. I think the one, Meredith's last episode was a big one for me. That was very, very tough to go through.

[23:46] Eila Mell: That was one thing I think that was interesting was there was no shying away from pulling at your heart. And, you know, it was like nothing else that existed. You know, all you guys, you know, one of the things that's always joked about is the writing was like these.

[24:01] Kerr Smith: Monologues with these words that like no teenager would ever use, but that was part of what drew people into watching it, at least the demographic that it was aimed for.

[24:12] Kerr Smith: Yeah, would you believe the network or might have been the studio? I can't remember, did not like the way it was written in the beginning at all. They felt it sounded like a period piece, which Kevin said he never understood, or maybe it was Paul that said that. But yeah, if you ask Kevin about the dialogue, the way he's explained it to me is that it's if the characters were talking with their heart, which I think is the most beautiful way to say it.

[24:38] Kerr Smith: Another way to say it is Kevin never wrote down to a teenager; he wrote up and made them intelligent, which was a first in television history in my opinion. So I think that was a big contributor to its success. But also when you're that age, everything feels heightened anyway, so it's so appropriate to portray it that way.

[25:00] Kerr Smith: You're right, you know, and all the things that we went through on the show are universal. I mean, you know, your first kiss, your first love, your first breakup, all that stuff, and we went through all that like fully.

[25:15] Eila Mell: Yeah, you guys all seemed, I know you mentioned that it was just a special time for all of you, but it seems like that has also continued. That friendship, that family that was created all those years ago is something that continued. You know, when you see interviews and you hear different things, almost effortlessly, like this, this is a bond that was created and sustained throughout your lives.

[25:40] Kerr Smith: I mean, some of us still stay in touch, some of us do not, but it's been really nice to reconnect with everybody. I'll tell you that.

[25:51] Kerr Smith: You know, I'm still, I mean, I was friends... I explain it in the book. I don't want to get into it, but I had a very interesting long relationship with James throughout 25 years. And I do wish I would have stayed in touch with Michelle more, but you know, she went on a different route. She became this huge movie star, which is awesome, right?

[26:15] Kerr Smith: It's absolutely amazing. But you know, I'm still friends with Meredith and Mary Margaret and John. I see John Shipp all the time at conventions. We've been doing conventions together, and it's been pretty cool. We've managed to keep it together.

[26:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Bruce and I got to meet Katie several times when she was doing Our Town on Broadway. Did you get to see her in that?

[26:32] Kerr Smith: No, I didn't. I didn't. I don't get out there too much anymore; I live on the West Coast. She was so lovely to see her. She was so wonderful in that show and so different from anything else she's ever done.

[26:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, if anybody can pull that off, it's her. And you know, I certainly don't think she's the typical mother figure, so to get to see her play that role to, you know, an adult-aged daughter, you know, Zoe George played her daughter, it was just, you know, crazy.

[27:02] Kerr Smith: That's awesome. That's amazing. What are some of the episodes that fans want to talk to you most about?

[27:05] Kerr Smith: It's an interesting question. I think a lot of times they want to talk about the one I directed. I directed 609, "Everything Put Together Falls Apart," and I think, you know, a lot of the fans are curious as to what it's like to be an actor on a show and direct it at the same time. I think they kind of find that interesting.

[27:26] Bruce Gotlieb: How did your cast treat you as one of them now stepping into another role?

[27:32] Kerr Smith: Indifferently. There, and you know, I take it how you want, but there was no like, "Oh, congratulations, this is awesome." You know, there was nothing; there was no talk about it. There was nothing. It's just all of a sudden I'm sitting in a different chair. So, you know, it was very strange, but they were all great.

[27:52] Kerr Smith: It's a weird time because, you know, we all knew it was probably gonna be our last season, season six, and it's a weird time when some of the actors go, "You know, I'd really like to direct." That's what producers do not want to hear. Those are words they do not want to hear. But I did end up getting slated for 609, and then Josh did one later in the season. James was supposed to direct one as well, but it never panned out. I don't know why, and the girls didn't have an interest, so it wasn't a full-blown landslide from the cast wanting to do it, but yeah, it was a really fun experience.

[28:24] Kerr Smith: The writers were nice enough to write me into only one scene, which is towards the end of the episode, and it was really concentrated. Yeah, of course, it was some of my Kerr Smith famous food humor; just give me food. There you go. Give me food in front of a camera, and I'll make it funny. So that's what they did.

[28:46] Kerr Smith: It's funny to hear you say that the network thought that the show seemed dated because, you know, it's such a staple of its time now. When you look back at that time, like Dawson's Creek is one of the main things that people think about.

[28:56] Kerr Smith: Yeah, but you know, it was written so differently. I mean, I can see reading it for the first time and going, "What? Why are they talking like this?" So I get it, you know, it just depends on the network personality at the time. But you know, luckily there were enough people in there that did get it, and you know, we got picked up.

[29:18] Kerr Smith: You also got, just I guess a little segue away for a moment, one of my favorite movies, The Broken Hearts Club, that you did with Greg, and he was also part of Dawson's Creek. Did your work with him on Dawson's Creek lend itself to that getting that film?

[29:32] Kerr Smith: Oh, yeah, that was kind of an inside joke, really. Yeah, that was Greg's first movie that he was directing, and Greg was already, I believe, he was already executive producer on Dawson's, I think by that time. I think that was around season three, so Kevin had left, and Greg was in charge.

[29:51] Kerr Smith: He was doing his first film during the hiatus in the summer, and he called me up and said, "Hey, will you just do a cameo for me on this thing?" So I flew out to LA and knocked a couple scenes out. I think it was only one scene now that I think about it at the baseball time.

[30:05] Kerr Smith: Yeah, we did Dean Dink. I take off the catcher mask, and Dean, I think Dean Cain's in the batter's box or something, but yeah, it was kind of an inside joke to have, you know, Jack McPhee right beyond the baseball team was funny. But then, I mean, you had a huge success with Final Destination, a very different character from Jack.

[30:26] Kerr Smith: Intentional. So that was my first hiatus; that was between season two and season three for me. So, you know, we talked about it already, but you know, not wanting to be pigeonholed, I went very much after roles that were very different than Jack's, and Carter Horton is certainly that. So yeah, I went after that movie, and of course, you know, at the time it was called Flight 180. We had no idea it was going to be this huge franchise.

[30:52] Kerr Smith: I did, however, begin to understand that it's a possibility this movie might do really well. We were in the Vancouver Airport, and we were filming some of those airport scenes, and I was talking to one of the producers, I think it was Craig Perry, and I said, "Flight 180? Really?" He goes, "Yeah, I know. We're working on it." And then like a week later, he comes back and he was, "Kurt, Final Destination." I go, "Oh, dude. Yes. That's it. That is it."

[31:22] Kerr Smith: But he was telling me good; it's such a great, it's a perfect title. But he was also telling me things in the movie that I didn't know we were doing, like the jetway getting onto the plane. They built the jetway, and they built it where the angles are skewed. So I'm six feet tall; you know, the ceiling was probably eight feet to begin with, but as you walk down the hallway, the ceiling was just a couple inches over my head. So they did things like that that made your brain go, "Mmm. Something's not quite right here." Super, super smart producing.

[31:55] Kerr Smith: Well, I mean, and there's no audience like a horror audience. You must, people must want to talk about Final Destination all the time while doing these conventions.

[32:03] Kerr Smith: I have certainly found out that there is no audience like a horror audience; that is for sure.

[32:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Now, is it possible that there will be a second book, My Life on Final Destination?

[32:09] Kerr Smith: I had never thought about it because, you know, I originally intended to do at least touch on my career after Dawson's Creek, but we just, you know, just decided to wrap it up right there at this.

[32:27] Kerr Smith: Yeah, yeah, right. I mean, I could do a full movie on Final Destination or a full book on Final Destination. No, I'm better to do it just planting a seed.

[32:40] Kerr Smith: No, but I mean, Dawson's Creek deserved its own book for sure. It's just such a special show to so many people.

[32:47] Eila Mell: I know there was always conversations about a reunion, a reunion movie. I feel when fans are so into something, they always want more than whatever it is that they got. Even with Friends, it's on for how many years, and people always want more. Do you think if in a perfect world, if everything, you know, maybe were a little different, do you think that would have ever happened? Was there ever any dialogue about it?

[33:08] Kerr Smith: So yes, there was dialogue. No, I don't think it will happen. It would have happened. Do you remember Dylan Neal? He played Pacey's older brother?

[33:19] Eila Mell: Yep.

[33:19] Kerr Smith: He and his wife Becky came up with a script called Capeside, and it was he and I because we end up together in the finale. It was Jack and his character now living in Wilmington, raising Jen's kid. So it was in real time, so Jen's kid would have been Jen's age at this point.

[33:37] Kerr Smith: Got it. And we're also, we also have some foster kids and things like that. I mean, I'm not doing it justice; Dylan's got to tell the story because it's so good. But we could not get Sony to agree.

[33:50] Kerr Smith: Interesting. Yeah, and it would obviously focus around the McPhee's and the winners, and you know, we could have cameos if we're interested in coming in and doing something. But I mean, I would love to revisit that, just go back to Wilmington and, you know, get that whole aesthetic that Wilmington provides. It would be fan, you know, my entire career, I have been trying to recreate that experience and haven't been able to do it.

[34:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, what was that reunion like that you did have, the reading that you did on stage?

[34:15] Kerr Smith: Oh, well, that was incredible. That was probably a highlight of my life. I have, you know, I've never done, I've never been on Broadway. I've never done Broadway, if you want to call that doing Broadway, you know, I'd appreciate it. You know, we're at the Richard Rodgers.

[34:28] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right.

[34:33] Kerr Smith: Why not Hamilton, you know?

[34:33] Kerr Smith: So it was an incredible, incredible night. We had 1,300 people in the theater, and they just went crazy every time the first time one of us went up to read. I mean, you just had to sit there for like 30 seconds until the screams died down to continue. It was really incredible, and it was obviously for a very good cause.

[35:02] Kerr Smith: Yeah, it's just a night I will never forget, and I dedicated a whole chapter to it.

[35:02] Eila Mell: Oh, that's amazing. I can't wait to read that part. But I mean, it must be amazing to feel so much love in one room.

[35:14] Kerr Smith: Yeah, it was intense, especially after so much, you know, being apart from Dawson's Creek for so long.

[35:20] Eila Mell: Yeah, was there any part of you that thought, will people still care this many years later?

[35:25] Kerr Smith: No, it sold out in like, I think it was 16 minutes. Yeah, it was ridiculous. Quick.

[35:30] Kerr Smith: Insane. Yeah, so no, I knew that they were gonna be into it.

[35:36] Eila Mell: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you knew also because people probably have never stopped talking to you about the show.

[35:42] Kerr Smith: Right. I mean, this book is a must-have for any fan, even a casual fan of the show because it's just, it's from the people who made the show; you can't get a better source.

[35:54] Kerr Smith: No, I mean, I had a front-row seat to the whole experience, you know. Everybody knows Dawson's Creek, but...

[36:01] Kerr Smith: People know behind the scenes and the family that we were and what we did on the weekends and how we all interacted with each other and, you know, a bunch of kids essentially coming of age and dealing with tremendous fame that just came out of nowhere. It was insane and I've got a lot of stories in there that I've never told.

[36:29] Eila Mell: Well, that's the best part too and I'm sure you've got a lot of stories from your co-stars and the crew too that they haven't had the opportunity to tell.

[36:37] Kerr Smith: Yep. We have some great crew stories in there.

[36:40] Eila Mell: And what was the experience like for you recording the audiobook for it?

[36:43] Kerr Smith: It was intense. I'll tell you it was four days straight. I think there's like 120,000 words in the book. So it was 120,000 words in four days.

[36:54] Eila Mell: Wow.

[36:54] Kerr Smith: That's a big book.

[36:56] Kerr Smith: Yeah, it's about 425 pages. It was supposed to be like 300, but you know how that goes. So it was intense. Day three I started to lose my voice and the director was like, you go home, you drink tea, you don't talk to anybody until you step in the studio tomorrow. I'm like, yes, ma'am. So it was great. I've never done an audiobook, so I did the best job I possibly could. I tried to take everybody on a roller coaster ride. I've read hundreds of audiobooks in my day and I think I know how to do it. I've read books where the author is intense on every line. I'm like, this is boring because it's intense, but it's flat.

[37:40] Eila Mell: Right.

[37:41] Kerr Smith: Right, exactly. You got to go like this throughout the whole... and just take them on that journey. And there are chapters in there, guys, that I was not able to get through. So you're definitely going to feel the emotion in there.

[37:51] Eila Mell: Well, that's the thing. People want to hear it in your voice. I mean, we will read it and hear your voice, but to actually be able to hear you say the words, it's just, I think it's worth doing both, because you want to read it also, especially the trivia, that part, that's fun to just digest. But then to hear you say it, that's a whole different experience.

[38:14] Kerr Smith: Yeah, I think it's really important that the author read his own words, for sure.

[38:19] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[38:19] Kerr Smith: I always enjoy that.

[38:21] Eila Mell: So when you have the sections that are other people's voices, do you do those voices too, or do you have special gaps?

[38:28] Kerr Smith: No, I think that's not the way we do it. I mean, if it's a female, I'll pitch up a little bit. If it's Josh speaking, I'll speed it up a little bit. Or if it's James, I'll really speed it up a little bit. But I'm not trying to imitate anybody's voice. There's only one voice. Actually, I did a little bit of Graham's.

[38:48] Eila Mell: Well, you have.

[38:49] Kerr Smith: You have to, when she says, Jennifer, you have to do that.

[38:53] Eila Mell: Exactly.

[38:54] Kerr Smith: Bruce loves her so much.

[38:57] Kerr Smith: She's such a great lady. And I think I attempted a, what's his name? Michael Caine impersonation. We'll see how that one goes over.

[39:08] Eila Mell: That's a very recognizable voice.

[39:11] Kerr Smith: How much trivia is there for people? Because people love that stuff.

[39:15] Eila Mell: Trivia in terms of...

[39:17] Kerr Smith: You know, like fun facts people don't know.

[39:20] Eila Mell: Well, I mean, I guess you could call it trivia. I mean, the whole thing is a lot of what people just don't know yet.

[39:26] Kerr Smith: Those casting stories, especially.

[39:29] Eila Mell: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not a book on a bunch of dirt. It's a feel-good story, because honestly, there really wasn't any dirt on Dawson's Creek. I mean, one of the themes, the through lines of the book, other than nostalgia, is that we were family. And I want to show you what kind of family we were.

[39:47] Kerr Smith: I know that fans are going to be so excited that James Van Der Beek was part of the book, and that you got to have his recollections as well. So, you know, that's special.

[40:00] Kerr Smith: God bless. He was in Vancouver. He was at the Sutton Place, which is our second home to any actor that's worked up there. And he was already very sick. This is about, I don't know, 15 months ago. And he was doing the Legally Blonde show that he just came out. And he was in his room, and he gave me a couple hours, and we just chatted about the old days. And I'm so happy that he did, because he contributed so much to the book. And then, you know, in February, obviously, he passed, and I was just finishing up. And I decided to dedicate a chapter at the end to give cast and crew an opportunity to tell one or two special stories, or what James meant to them. So that's a very difficult chapter to talk about, I'm sure.

[40:48] Eila Mell: Yeah, but I can only imagine how his family is going to read that and just be so honored and touched. It's funny you said that, because I reached out to Kimberly a couple weeks ago, and I said, Hey, you know, what's your address down there in Texas? I want to get you a copy. And she goes, I would be honored. Here it is.

[41:05] Kerr Smith: Ah, yeah, and I'm sure they will. And all of you that even if it's just that one chapter, to have that for yourselves is, you know, is a gift in and of itself. So well, James is all through the book, obviously.

[41:22] Eila Mell: Yeah, yeah, that's a that chapter. And the one on the reunion, or, you know, obviously all about.

[41:27] Kerr Smith: Yeah, that, you know, that's so interesting, because, you know, most books, even with people who have passed, they don't include that, that that's really something very unique to this book.

[41:36] Kerr Smith: Yeah, it's, we, you know, I debated about it, you know, should I and I addressed that in the very beginning of the chapter. And I thought, you know, what, what would James want? And, you know, I just, I hope that he would be okay with me putting that in there. And I even took it further, I, you know, because of the family aspect of the show, we have a list of everybody that's passed on from the entire production.

[41:55] Eila Mell: Oh, wow.

[41:55] Kerr Smith: And I'm just sitting here hoping I didn't miss anybody.

[42:01] Eila Mell: I know, that's always the fear.

[42:01] Kerr Smith: Well, I think, I think it'll be, you know, something that fans of the show are going to really cherish and just to really dive in. And hopefully they'll not only buy the book, but they'll, you know, download the audio and hear you, your words. Also, I assume there'll also be a book tour of sorts that you'll go on and people can, you know, buy copies and possibly have them signed and do all that good stuff too.

[42:28] Kerr Smith: Yeah, you actually get pre-orders signed. We're doing a book plate right now for pre-orders. And yes, the book comes out November 10. I'll be in New York starting November 9. I'll be in New York, in and around New York City, New Jersey, Massachusetts for like four days. And then I go down to DC, then I go down to Wilmington. That's gonna be huge.

[42:53] Eila Mell: Yeah, and I haven't been back since. So we have this event set up at this new brewery that's down there. I forget what it's called. The Breuseum, I think it's called. And it's dedicated to Wilmington and its history throughout the film and television business. And I'm like, this is perfect. So we're going to go down there and we're going to do a signing and a Q&A and I'm going to see all my old friends. And then I go out to Los Angeles, San Diego and Los Angeles for like four or five days. And that's it. So it's about a two week, a two week tour.

[43:19] Kerr Smith: Yeah, that's great. Because books don't always get book tours anymore. So that's fantastic that you have that opportunity.

[43:30] Kerr Smith: Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about it. Will you take a moment to kind of go back through your stomping grounds for yourself? Like, you know, you either drive through or walk through where you guys used to shoot?

[43:39] Kerr Smith: I would except I'm not going to have that. If I have a couple of hours, I'll do it. But I don't know if I'm going to. Yeah, they're probably jam packed.

[43:46] Kerr Smith: It's like, oh, it's too jammed. It's like you're on a plane, you go right to the function, you go to bed, you're on a plane. It's kind of crazy. So we'll see what happens. But if I have even 45 minutes, yeah, I'm going to stomp around.

[43:55] Eila Mell: Yeah, just for sure.

[43:58] Eila Mell: So for the people listening who are in Wilmington, what were some of your favorite places back then to hang out?

[44:04] Kerr Smith: Oh, back then it was Deluxe. It was Dockside down at Wrightsville Beach. It was the sushi place on Wrightsville Avenue. I cannot remember the name of it. We went to K-38. We went to the other Mexican place on the main street there, which I cannot remember the name of. They had great, great tortilla soup. Every coffee shop downtown on Second Street. I mean, it's just so many places, too many to name really. We brought it back to food then.

[44:33] Eila Mell: Oh, it's always about food and beer. There's no question.

[44:39] Kerr Smith: Well, that's the title for your next book. It's always about food and beer.

[44:44] Kerr Smith: Well, is there anything else that you want to share with us that we don't already know?

[44:49] Kerr Smith: I don't think so. You guys did a great job. I think we covered everything. I mean, you have a pretty busy slate right now. But you have an open invitation to come back anytime we love this conversation.

[45:05] Bruce Gotlieb: No, this was great. When you come back to Broadway, because we're on the Broadway Podcast Network, we'll have you back on to talk about that.

[45:15] Kerr Smith: Are you OGE, Bruce?

[45:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, from the beginning.

[45:18] Kerr Smith: You're the beginning. Gotcha. Okay.

[45:20] Kerr Smith: I re-watched it at one point also. It might have been a pandemic binge back through again, but it still did all of those things. It brings you back and it hits you just the same as it did before. It really does. When I started re-watching everything, I'm like, oh my God, I'm crying.

[45:40] Eila Mell: Correct.

[45:41] Kerr Smith: I'm crying. I even know what's going to happen. I even know what I was thinking at the time. Still crying. It's crazy.

[45:46] Eila Mell: It is. It just holds a place in your heart and it just doesn't let go. It's quite perfect.

[45:55] Kerr Smith: Yeah, that's true.

[45:57] Eila Mell: No one can ever hear that song again without thinking of your shop.

[46:00] Kerr Smith: I know. For me, it brings me back to that time too.

[46:06] Eila Mell: You know what's funny though, actually? Obviously, you're using it as the title of a book. Is that something you have to clear because it's also the title of a song?

[46:14] Kerr Smith: No, apparently it's not. We went through the whole legal stuff with making sure everything was legit in the book and it didn't come up. Obviously, it's the title of Paula Cole's song, but that's not really what it's about for me. What it means for me is it brings me back to the person who I was during that time. I didn't want to wait for anything. I was young. I was hungry. I wanted my next job. I wanted the next piece of press. I wanted the next movement forward. What it really means is now that I've gone through 25 plus years of becoming an adult and going through my own process of understanding who I am and what my place in the universe is, I've come to understand that I had it all wrong back then. It was about the moments in between. It was about the silence. That's what it is about for me now. If I could go back and tap myself on the shoulder, I would say something along the lines of, just relax, dude. Just enjoy the present moment and just relax.

[47:17] Eila Mell: It's good advice for a person of any age.

[47:25] Kerr Smith: It really is. The book is called I Don't Want to Wait, My Life on Dawson's Creek. Again, it's available for pre-orders. I wouldn't wait. We don't want to wait, so get the book now or you can wait and see Kerr in person. He went through his very busy schedule.

[47:44] Eila Mell: Cool. Anyone who's seen the show will love this book.

[47:49] Kerr Smith: Absolutely.

[47:50] Eila Mell: Yes, they will.

[47:51] Kerr Smith: Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see everyone next time on Behind the Awards.

[47:55] Kerr Smith: Bye-bye.

[47:55] Kerr Smith: Thanks, guys. Bye.