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[0:01] Eila Mell: Hey, I'm Christiani Pitts and you're listening to Behind the Awards.

[0:13] Eila Mell: Hello and welcome to Behind the Awards. I'm Eila. I am here with Bruce.

[0:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Good morning. How are you today?

[0:20] Eila Mell: I am very excited to talk to you because we haven't discussed it at all yet, but you saw Rocky Horror.

[0:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[0:27] Eila Mell: Yesterday.

[0:28] Bruce Gotlieb: What were your thoughts?

[0:29] Eila Mell: All right. Well, I saw a very early preview. So, you know, the show has probably gotten tighter since I've seen it.

[0:38] Bruce Gotlieb: But I think, you know, it's fun. But I think there are problems, to be honest.

[0:46] Eila Mell: You know, when I was there anyway, the audience didn't know if they should call out lines like they do in the movie.

[0:55] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I mean, they are still there are people that are still doing it and still trying to do it.

[1:00] Eila Mell: Whether the actors accept those lines or not depends on the scene.

[1:07] Bruce Gotlieb: But I believe since you had told me that when you went and having gone last night, I think subsequently they have kind of come out publicly saying they really don't want people to do it.

[1:19] Eila Mell: So do they say anything in the theater when I was there?

[1:22] Bruce Gotlieb: No.

[1:23] Eila Mell: I think that you get an email that kind of guides you.

[1:29] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, but I don't know. You know, so when they were doing it, it didn't you know, it's it's so hard because people want to do that and they want to have fun because they're very used to the movie.

[1:41] Eila Mell: And I understand that. And you can't really tell people you can't do that because how much fun is that right?

[1:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I mean, people were doing it, but it almost felt like some scenes are hurried along in order to not have the insertion.

[1:54] Eila Mell: Other live productions that I've seen, they're almost waiting for it because they know it's coming. So it's built in.

[2:01] Bruce Gotlieb: So this almost feels like a little like, I don't know who's right or wrong, but it's almost like they're battling one another.

[2:09] Eila Mell: And we should also say that the audience that you're getting at Rocky Horror and the audience that you're getting at, let's say, Cat's Angelica Ball is a different audience than you're going to get for your traditional Broadway show.

[2:20] Bruce Gotlieb: So going in, you do need to be of that mindset.

[2:24] Eila Mell: Yeah, they're dedicated fans.

[2:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Although I will say, while knowing that going in last night, especially in Act Two, there were people around us that were singing along.

[2:35] Eila Mell: So while I can accept the vigor that they bring to the experience and love it.

[2:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[2:42] Eila Mell: I draw the line. It's not a sing-along performance.

[2:45] Bruce Gotlieb: No. Well, that's the thing, you know, it's not, it's only fun for the person calling out the lines.

[2:53] Eila Mell: I will say, performance-wise, I thought for me, Luke Evans is a standout, Andrew Durand and Stephanie Hsu both also.

[3:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Previous productions, I felt, and maybe a reason why I liked a little bit more, were a little bit more, were a little bit sexier.

[3:12] Eila Mell: Now, people might take that and think because they are scantily dressed.

[3:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[3:18] Eila Mell: But it had an overall sexier vibe to it than this one did, which was a little bit more on the science fiction side.

[3:28] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I get that.

[3:30] Eila Mell: So to me, it felt a little like a miss in that regard for me.

[3:36] Bruce Gotlieb: You know, I agree with you about Luke Evans. I think that it's very hard to succeed in that role because it's so tied to Tim Curry, who was just brilliant in it.

[3:46] Eila Mell: And I think that he does as much with that role as anybody could.

[3:51] Bruce Gotlieb: You know, he pays tribute to what we want from it, but he makes it his own and he's fantastic.

[3:58] Eila Mell: I don't know why he needs a wig.

[4:01] Bruce Gotlieb: That wig is so ugly, I can't stand it.

[4:04] Eila Mell: I love at the end when he takes it off, that's what it should be the whole show.

[4:07] Bruce Gotlieb: The whole time, I know. I don't get it. That wig is a real detriment, I agree with you.

[4:13] Eila Mell: Did you notice that when they turned to stone right before the floor show and they sort of wheeled them off, Andrew Duran looked exactly like Dead Outlaw?

[4:21] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[4:22] Eila Mell: That was fun.

[4:24] Bruce Gotlieb: I kept pressing the buttons, my head was, well, he has experience with this.

[4:27] Eila Mell: That's right. Stephanie's shoe is great.

[4:31] Bruce Gotlieb: She is.

[4:32] Eila Mell: You know, I kept waiting for Juliette Lewis, who is such a great actress, to really let loose, and she never did.

[4:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I mean, listen, everybody was fine. There was nobody that was like a fish out of water or anything.

[4:43] Eila Mell: You know, I think for revival, this season is really a tough category.

[4:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[4:50] Eila Mell: While some people have this in the top three with Cats and Ragtime, I think for me, it's probably four.

[4:59] Bruce Gotlieb: I think I have Chess above this one.

[5:02] Eila Mell: Okay, yeah. I'm not sure where I would rank it, possibly. What did you think about Amber Gray?

[5:11] Bruce Gotlieb: I thought Amber Gray was good. You know, she's a tremendous actress and gave one of my favorite performances last season in Eureka Day.

[5:21] Eila Mell: It felt like the part was kind of a throwaway, more so than I remembered it being in the past.

[5:27] Bruce Gotlieb: And I don't know if that's a product of the direction or a product of the choices that she was making as a character.

[5:35] Eila Mell: Yeah, I think, you know, she's taking a big swing, which I appreciate, but I think it doesn't really work for me anyway in this position.

[5:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Same with MJ Rodriguez, who I love.

[5:46] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[5:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Who is obviously a great actress, but I think maybe tone wise, she was maybe too serious.

[5:54] Eila Mell: Well, the thing is, in the second act, when she gets into the whole, I loved you, you know, the love that she has for Frank and feeling misplaced and all of that, you didn't get a build up to that point.

[6:07] Bruce Gotlieb: You know, the minions, I'll call them, of Frank.

[6:11] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[6:12] Bruce Gotlieb: Normally feel so attached to him and, you know, so, you know, borderline obsessed with him.

[6:19] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[6:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Which is, I think, what he wants. That's why he has all these people around him, right?

[6:23] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[6:24] Bruce Gotlieb: You don't get that. And then when that then becomes the precipice for Columbia's monologue.

[6:31] Eila Mell: Right.

[6:32] Bruce Gotlieb: It's almost like, wait, what's happening?

[6:34] Eila Mell: Yeah, I know. I just felt like it wasn't, you know, I'm not sure that I blame her for that. That could be the direction.

[6:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Sure.

[6:41] Eila Mell: That it just doesn't match the rest of the show.

[6:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[6:44] Eila Mell: Just, you know, a little camp would have gone a long way in that scene.

[6:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I think, you know, you have Sam Pinkleton, who's directing, who obviously knows camp, right?

[6:54] Eila Mell: Oh, yeah.

[6:55] Bruce Gotlieb: I mean, to know Mary.

[6:56] Eila Mell: A master.

[6:57] Bruce Gotlieb: But I think this took a different fork in the road.

[7:00] Eila Mell: But when this show is funny, it's as funny as anything.

[7:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. I mean, I listen. It's not wasn't my favorite.

[7:07] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[7:08] Bruce Gotlieb: There were some things I could pull out that I that I did enjoy.

[7:12] Eila Mell: There are shows that I've seen this season that I would go back and see again. This isn't one of them.

[7:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. OK. And, you know, to be fair, it really is not a great script. It's gotten that problem.

[7:23] Eila Mell: Sure.

[7:24] Bruce Gotlieb: But also, I really liked Josh Rivera as Rocky. I thought he was.

[7:28] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[7:29] Bruce Gotlieb: Really good.

[7:30] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[7:31] Bruce Gotlieb: All right. Well, enough of that.

[7:34] Eila Mell: On to our guest who is starring in another revival.

[7:38] Bruce Gotlieb: We have Brandon Uranowitz today, who is singing such beautiful songs in Ragtime at Lincoln Center.

[7:46] Eila Mell: Well, let's bring him out because he's just so wonderful.

[7:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely.

[7:51] Eila Mell: Well, Bruce, we both love Ragtime and we are so thrilled to welcome Brandon Uranowitz to our show.

[7:58] Brandon Uranowitz: Hello there.

[7:59] Brandon Uranowitz: Hi. Thank you for having me.

[8:02] Eila Mell: Oh, it's a thrill for us.

[8:04] Brandon Uranowitz: Really? I was going to say, we have to thank you.

[8:07] Eila Mell: Oh, that's very sweet. Thank you.

[8:09] Brandon Uranowitz: So I don't know about you, but I saw Ragtime when, you know, the original production and it stayed with me all these years.

[8:16] Eila Mell: Did you also get to see that original production?

[8:18] Brandon Uranowitz: Well, funnily enough, I was in it.

[8:23] Eila Mell: How so? Were you a baby?

[8:26] Brandon Uranowitz: I was a baby. No, I was actually, I was not in the original Broadway production, which I'll get to in a second.

[8:34] Brandon Uranowitz: I was, I played the little boy in the pre-Broadway production in Toronto.

[8:42] Eila Mell: That's crazy.

[8:43] Brandon Uranowitz: So I played Marin Mazzie and Mark Jacoby's son in Toronto.

[8:50] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, it was a dreamy, wild experience.

[8:54] Brandon Uranowitz: And then it got very complicated when they were moving the show to Broadway.

[8:58] Brandon Uranowitz: It was a little unclear because I think they couldn't really explicitly say why they weren't going to bring me to Broadway.

[9:05] Brandon Uranowitz: But I think we can infer that, you know, just in terms of like identity, especially in a show that centers identity as the, you know, the sort of thread through which we, you know, experience this story.

[9:22] Brandon Uranowitz: I, as a young Jewish boy who kind of looked like Lea Michele's twin brother. I just don't think it really was a good fit, ultimately.

[9:35] Brandon Uranowitz: And they ended up not bringing me to Broadway, which was crushing, obviously.

[9:41] Brandon Uranowitz: Very traumatic for a child.

[9:45] Brandon Uranowitz: But, you know, I still got to do it for like eight months with all of these incredible people.

[9:52] Brandon Uranowitz: You know, Marin and Audra and Stokes and Peter Friedman. It was a completely dreamy experience.

[9:59] Brandon Uranowitz: So, yes, I did get to see it eight times a week.

[10:03] Eila Mell: Eight months.

[10:05] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, I did.

[10:08] Brandon Uranowitz: What a good test, though, that this was something that you wanted to continue with.

[10:11] Brandon Uranowitz: Correct.

[10:12] Brandon Uranowitz: You know, someone who didn't really want to do it.

[10:14] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[10:15] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. I mean, look, I grew up in New Jersey, sort of right outside the city.

[10:20] Brandon Uranowitz: And my parents took me to my first Broadway show when I was like three and a half or four and something, something about my demeanor in the audience.

[10:28] Brandon Uranowitz: My parents sort of clocked something and they were like, oh, let's see what this is about.

[10:33] Eila Mell: Right.

[10:34] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. And they were right.

[10:37] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[10:38] Brandon Uranowitz: And yeah.

[10:39] Brandon Uranowitz: So but, you know, but I will say like being let go from a show as a young kid, it definitely like stick into my skin.

[10:47] Brandon Uranowitz: It definitely primed me for the like inevitable rejections that come with this career.

[10:54] Brandon Uranowitz: But it also like it also harbored in me like a little some like trust issues and things about the the the industry that I've had to work through.

[11:05] Brandon Uranowitz: And I have to say, like coming back like full circle to this show in a role that actually that is so perfectly aligned with who I am and my identity and my family and all that has like helped me to really like reconcile some of those things that I've I've struggled with.

[11:23] Brandon Uranowitz: And I didn't realize they were like directly correlated to that experience as a kid.

[11:27] Brandon Uranowitz: But I'm really grateful for it.

[11:29] Eila Mell: How did this come to you?

[11:31] Brandon Uranowitz: I know, obviously, you were part of the city center onwards version.

[11:35] Brandon Uranowitz: But when that I know that when that comes together, it's like fast and furious.

[11:39] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, oh, yeah.

[11:40] Brandon Uranowitz: Which I actually sort of really love.

[11:42] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[11:43] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, I was, you know, it was it was funny.

[11:47] Brandon Uranowitz: I was literally on my way to a doctor's appointment.

[11:51] Brandon Uranowitz: And when I got off the subway, I had this text message from my agent that was just like a bunch of exclamation points.

[11:58] Brandon Uranowitz: And I was like, really confused.

[12:00] Brandon Uranowitz: I didn't know what it was.

[12:01] Brandon Uranowitz: And then I saw that I had an email and it was an offer from city center to play Tata.

[12:07] Brandon Uranowitz: And I'm not I'm this sounds so dramatic.

[12:10] Brandon Uranowitz: I'm so sorry.

[12:11] Brandon Uranowitz: But like my knees literally buckled.

[12:13] Brandon Uranowitz: I was like I was in the middle of the street and I like slumped over.

[12:17] Brandon Uranowitz: It was really wild.

[12:18] Eila Mell: Why, though?

[12:19] Brandon Uranowitz: It's one of the best written parts of musical theater.

[12:21] Brandon Uranowitz: It's incredible.

[12:22] Brandon Uranowitz: I love it so much.

[12:23] Brandon Uranowitz: And I never thought in a million years that like it would come to me.

[12:27] Brandon Uranowitz: And I certainly never thought it would come to me in like.

[12:31] Brandon Uranowitz: A prestigious, you know, production like a city center on course sort of situation.

[12:38] Brandon Uranowitz: And, you know, the thing about on course is which has become the narrative.

[12:41] Brandon Uranowitz: And I think we should probably like remove ourselves from this narrative.

[12:45] Brandon Uranowitz: But, you know, there's always this like hope with a city center production that it'll move and transfer.

[12:50] Eila Mell: Right.

[12:51] Brandon Uranowitz: So many of them do.

[12:52] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah.

[12:53] Brandon Uranowitz: But, you know, you bring up a good point about the like Fast and Furious of the city center.

[12:57] Brandon Uranowitz: You know, I mean, I guess for the listeners who don't really know, you know, the city center.

[13:03] Brandon Uranowitz: I mean, this was the gala production, so it wasn't on course.

[13:05] Brandon Uranowitz: But like for all intents and purposes, let's say the encore series at city center is for all intents and purposes, like a staged concert is what it's supposed to be.

[13:15] Brandon Uranowitz: And like, you know, you're allowed to hold your scripts.

[13:19] Brandon Uranowitz: And it's sort of a way for New York audiences to like be reintroduced to shows that that have not necessarily been mounted in a long time.

[13:28] Brandon Uranowitz: It's all like revival driven.

[13:30] Brandon Uranowitz: But like more in more recent years, I think the properties are a little more well known than, you know, right.

[13:36] Brandon Uranowitz: Some of the other ones.

[13:37] Brandon Uranowitz: But the thing that I and you only you because it's a staged concert and you're allowed to hold your scripts, you only have like 10 days of rehearsal and then a day of tech and then you're thrown into, you know, you're thrown into performances.

[13:50] Brandon Uranowitz: Ragtime was my fourth city center production.

[13:54] Brandon Uranowitz: And the thing that I really, really love about it is like once you surrender to the fact that you have no time, it's really like an exercise in just like trusting your gut and your instincts.

[14:07] Brandon Uranowitz: And like as an actor to me, like your greatest tool is your gut instinct, you know, is listening and responding and all.

[14:17] Brandon Uranowitz: And so because you don't have that much time and like, you know, especially with ragtime, which is such an epic, it's three hours long.

[14:24] Brandon Uranowitz: It's just like relentless.

[14:26] Brandon Uranowitz: It's there's so much material like you do not have any time to overthink anything.

[14:33] Brandon Uranowitz: And you just like make a decision, make a choice and like stick with it.

[14:51] Brandon Uranowitz: It really embraces spontaneity and that to me is the most exciting thing to watch as an audience member. So because of that, so many of those things, so many of those discoveries that I made in that process followed me to the Lincoln Center production. So I actually really love City Center and what they do. Yeah, it's incredible because there are so many shows that have been forgotten about. And you're right, not so much this season anyway. But it's great because then shows get reimagined, like Pal Joey is now Stay Joey. And we get it for a new time, and I hear the new version is fantastic. So it's so valuable. Totally. It just seems like karma, though, since you were not brought to Broadway the first time that it came to you this way.

[15:39] Brandon Uranowitz: It does. I mean, my parents and I like to talk about it a lot, actually, the sort of like cosmic nature of the whole thing. Yeah. And so I'm just trying to like savor it and enjoy it. You know, I also have to like contend with the fact that this is also like, you know, come August 2nd, like this is also going to come to an end. So yeah, I'm just trying to savor the moment and enjoy it. And I think, you know, the thing about the like karmic element of it is like, so often as actors, I feel like you don't get like a huge say, or much of a voice in what we do, you know, we just sort of go where the work is. And the thing that I'm so grateful for with this is it just sort of it just came to me. And this is like, you know, if I could pick like one thing, if I had a voice and a say, and like, would be this.

Yeah. And so I'm doing it for me, which I never really, I feel like I never really get to do. And I'm really grateful for that. I'm grateful to be able to do something that I believe in so much. And also, it's a show that's so timely, more timely than when it came out initially. And your character is an immigrant. You know, the role of the immigrant in society is very different today than it was back then. You know, do you feel a responsibility?

[17:11] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, 100%? Yeah. Yeah. That's the other thing that I'm just like, so sort of stunned by every night is just how prescient the show is right now. And especially Tata's storyline. And I think it's, I think it's also why his character resonates so much right now with folks, because that storyline is able to hold not just the Jewish immigrant storyline, which it does so beautifully, but it really just like sort of echoes what's going on outside the walls of the theater every day.

[17:44] Brandon Uranowitz: Exactly. Any immigrant, really, you could plug in. Correct. And that will be true long after we close. And I hope that it changes. I hope that like, this sort of propensity we have to other dies out at some point. We're just so eager as a culture to other folks. I hope that by like seeing current events in Tata's storyline, that like, people don't just like sit back and watch things happen that they actually get galvanized to like, do something. Yeah, that's sort of my hope. Yeah. And it can be a small thing. You know, I mean, I hope I hope people can leave and just like, call a representative or you know, just like something small that they can do. Because there's something about theater. And I think being in a dark room with strangers to see and hear a story together as a community, that's like very different than just like sitting on your couch and watching the news.

Yeah, that I that I hope just like sort of yeah, invigorates people to like take action. I think it's easy to just like sit back and watch the TV. But when you're in a theater that something very different happens to us. We also, you know, put our phones down in the theater. So we really become engaged. We're supposed to. Yeah. Well, that's the hope. Even if it leads to just someone being kind in a way where they might not have been exactly before. That's huge. Yeah. I mean, it's Yeah, like, even even if the action is like internal. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, even if the change is internal, even if they like start to, like, move through the world in a different way. And you're right, like, be kind to someone who looks different than them that they may not have, like, wanted to engage with before. Yeah. Right. That and that ripple will start even no matter how small it is.

[19:38] Brandon Uranowitz: Exactly. And it's also inspiring because, you know, your character is really the embodiment of the American dream. Yeah, totally. And, you know, I think I've really like had we talk about the American dream a lot with this show. And I've been I've I've had like a very I've been reflecting on it a lot, like just myself and what the American dream is and how we define it. And, you know, if we like look at Tata's story sort of through a very like a normal sort of lens that we the basic definition of the American dream, which is you can come to America and build a life. And I think that lens is like through capitalism, ultimately. I mean, like, I don't want to get like too political about it. But like, you know, the way that I've been reflecting about it is is like, yes, he succeeds in becoming wealthy and providing a life for his daughter, which is really what he wants.

And we talk about like, you know, I mean, for lack of, you know, money a lot. And to me, the American dream that Tata represents is like the ability to like self-actualize and like really become an independent, free person who can live openly as they are and freely. And I think like that to me is is the huge success story for Tata is not just that he becomes rich, but that he becomes self-actualized and like has his feet planted firmly on the ground and can walk through the world confidently and without feeling like, you know, a parasite like he does sort of in Act one. And that to me is like a very, you know, rich, intriguing thing to witness. And I hope people see that, too. Like, I hope they see beyond the money of it all.

And I hope they see beyond the riches and the wealth. It's about identity and self-actualization, because to me, like that as we like move forward as a culture and as a country like that, to me, is what the American dream really is, is like you can come here and be yourself and like live openly and freely and, you know, free from oppression and whatever you're trying to move away from that. Like you can come here and be yourself. Yeah. And do what you want.

[22:09] Brandon Uranowitz: Hi, I'm Brandon Uranowitz and behind the awards, we'll be right back.

[22:21] Brandon Uranowitz: The kids in the show are so great. I mean, they're really they're doing, you know, as well as any adults in any show stars. They're all stars.

[22:30] Eila Mell: Yeah, they're fantastic stars. And you are a child actor. So do you feel like you have, you know, like a secret language with them almost?

[22:39] Brandon Uranowitz: Secret language? I don't know about a secret language. I think just like a like I see you and you seem like I see you and I got you right. But like they're also just like they're such pros like, you know, Tabitha, who played my little girl for the first half of the run, like worked more than I did. You know what I mean? Like Ellie Mae, who plays a little girl now is just like, you know what I mean? Like, so they they don't need me necessarily. But like, they are helping you.

[23:11] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, they are. I mean, like, you know, Tata's entire story hinges on his daughter. That's all he cares about. So we have like a very close, special bond. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I do think I feel extra protective of them because of like what I went through.

[23:31] Eila Mell: Sure. And I just want to make sure that they feel safe and comfortable and taken care of. Because it gets dark. The show.

[23:43] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It does. Oh, my God. It does. I mean, you know, he's offered money for his daughter. Yeah. And like, you know, I'm not totally sure how much they're aware of like the nuances of what's going on in the story. And I hope that they have some like distance from it. Right. But yeah, they're they're pros. And like they love to play. And I mean, like on stage, like being like a spontaneous scene partner, like they're just really good at what they do. And they seem happy and taken care of. And I feel extra protective of them. But I also try not to like overwhelm them.

[24:22] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, correct. I feel like. But also they have the fearlessness of kids, like they're not thinking about like half the stuff that we think about.

[24:27] Eila Mell: Exactly. Exactly.

[24:32] Brandon Uranowitz: So, yeah, they're not like burdened. They're not like burdened by neuroses like we are. Right. That's right. So you won the Tony for Leopold.

[24:40] Brandon Uranowitz: I did. Amazing. So I don't know if you know this, but I wrote a book with the American Theatre Wing called The Tony Awards. And you were in that book.

[24:52] Brandon Uranowitz: I am. Yes, you are. That was the last season that we covered. So, yeah, really? Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I even got to talk to Tom Stoppard about the show. And while you guys were in previews and he actually this is so funny, he actually FaceTime me by accident once, which was a really odd experience.

[25:11] Brandon Uranowitz: You got butt dialed by Tom Stoppard. FaceTime butt dial by Tom Stoppard. Even better. I know. Oh, my God. What a story. But, you know, that's such a beautiful show.

[25:25] Eila Mell: Yeah. What was it like being part of just being part of a new Tom Stoppard play is amazing, but one that was, you know, so meaningful to his own life.

[25:30] Brandon Uranowitz: I mean, look, I had like a lot of dreams as a kid and I had a lot of dreams as a teenager. And then in college, there were certain things that I aspire to. I never in a million years thought that I would be able to to do a Tom Stoppard play on Broadway and win a Tony for like that. There it's like beyond anything I could have ever imagined. Right. Especially probably as someone who does a lot of musical theater, too. You probably totally you're not going to get that kind of opportunity.

[26:05] Brandon Uranowitz: Totally. Also, especially because like early on in my career, it was a struggle to even get an audition for a play.

[26:16] Eila Mell: Sure.

[26:16] Brandon Uranowitz: Because of my resume and because of the work that I had been doing. I mean, you get so easily pigeonholed in this industry. It's just like the nature of the beast. So this was like when I got the audition for it, I was like, well, this will never happen. And I walked in and Patrick Marber, the director, was just like so kind and wonderful and effusive. And, you know, when I read the play for the first time before the audition, it just like completely notched the wind out of me. Yeah. I was like paralyzed for hours after. Also, especially because that's like part of my family story, too. You know, like I'm right. You know, parts of my family were survivors. And so it just like really, really spoke to me. But I will say speaking of like responsibility as an actor or an artist and what you're doing, I felt a deep responsibility in that as well. And I will say like that was that was like a really, really difficult world to live in every day.

[27:27] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, I can imagine that like really took a lot out of me. You know, I really I don't think I realized it until after we closed and I was just like a shell for a month and a half. You can ask my husband like it was not good. But because you try as you might to leave it at the theater. I mean, your body is still going through the motion, like your body is still going through it. Right. Like, you know, there's a book, Your Body Keeps the Score, about how the cells in your body sort of remember trauma and it's hard to like rewire your body. I mean, it's just it like trauma like that leaves scars, literal physical scars inside your body. So it was hard. It was really hard for me to release it. But it was one of the great you know, I feel so unbelievably grateful to have done it.

I mean, and, you know, Tom Stoppard is is one of the greatest playwrights to ever live. His plays are canon. Yeah. And to be a part of his last play, and one that was so deeply personal to him, which is not his mo typically as a writer, it's just like sort of the most incredible thing. I feel uniquely blessed and grateful to to have been a part of that.

[28:44] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. And he was just like, truly the loveliest man to I'll never forget, we had like two weeks of rehearsal in the studio before Tom came for the final two weeks in the studio. And then he was there for all for previews. And, you know, the day he arrived, we were going to do a run through of the show for him in the studio. And I have in my entire I guess I was about 37 at the time 36. I have never in all of those years been as nervous as I was that day ever. Not for an audition, not for an opening, not for anything. It was like, I felt like I was meeting God that day. And like having to like perform for God. And it was he could not have been lovelier. He was a warm, towering figure, but like literally, but it was incredible. That was the most wild experience.

[30:12] Brandon Uranowitz: Obviously, as you're working on a piece, whether it's been done before or not, there's changes that happen, you know, words get changed, songs can come in and out and you lend yourself because you guys are all in collaboration together. So is there anything doing it where you made some choices and it affected how he might have changed his play at all? You know, I don't think a single word changed. Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, I don't think. Yeah. And not that he wasn't like open to that. Yeah. Like he was obviously so, you know, I mean, the play had been done on the West End before I think it won the Olivier before it came over. You know, I think it was like it happened in the West End pre-pandemic and then pandemic happened and then this came.

And yeah, he was like, so open to our interpretation, which was, I think, very different than the British, you know, like a cast of British actors versus most. I mean, a couple of them came over with the show, which was really, really helpful. But for the most part, it was new American actors sort of breathing life into this thing. And he was so open to our interpretation. So it's not that I don't think he was open to changing it. I think he was just as we all were. He was just aware of its power as it was. And it worked. I'm trying to yeah, I really don't think that a single word changed. It's my favorite of his plays. It's just so beautiful.

[31:43] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, it's so beautiful. And the way that it, you know, the way that it tracks this family and the thing to me that I that I will always find so deeply moving about the play and only something only Tom Stoppard could do is, you know, the play opens with this big family tree, right? Yeah. Everybody's on stage. Right. And throughout the course of this play, he challenges you as an audience to like, track all of these people, right? And their relationships and who's who and like there's double casting and like it's it becomes like a puzzle of this family. And ultimately, as the play comes to a close, and we're reading out this list of names of the family members who perished in the camps. It's sort of a test to the audience to be like, how well did you track this, this family?

And it's his way, I think, of asking the audience, 6 million people died in the Holocaust, right? 6 million people. And we can't really fathom that beyond a stick, right? We can't fathom that beyond a giant number. We can't fathom that as 6 million individual people. And here's one family. Were you able to track it? You know, and also, you know, like you said, it starts with a huge cast. And then at the very end, what are we down to three people? Yeah. Yeah. And that's devastating in itself.

[33:17] Brandon Uranowitz: It's devastating, but it's also like, it's Tom's like mathematical way of being like, these were people, right? Yeah. Right. And here's one family that's so difficult to track and so hard to like, keep tabs on. And they all died. What is 6 million? So it's like something only Tom Stoppard could do and do as well as he did. And I love the transitions as the actors go into, you know, the older actors between acts, you know, it's just, I love that part of it, too. I don't know if that was written in or if that was Patrick Marber, but it was just so successful.

[34:53] Brandon Uranowitz: The, you mean, just like the double casting of it? Just how you see it, how you physically see one actor going to the next during those transitions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't think Tom like really outlines in the script, like who gets double cast. That's sort of because I know like other productions have happened around the country and around the world. And like the double casting has changed, has been different. You know, like even in the West End before Broadway, the Ludwig Nathan track also included Jacob in that middle act. Huh. Interesting. Yeah. And again, a lot of kids in the show, which is funny. Kids, which is really fun. They were also incredible. My God.

[35:40] Brandon Uranowitz: You know, it must be amazing. I don't know if people, you know, like who are very young experience this anymore, but just to open up the, you know, the Sam French script and to see your name in the cast list, the original cast list, that's incredible. Oh, I mean, it's still like sort of takes my breath away. Oh, yeah. It's still, yeah, it's still one of those things where I pinch myself and I'm like, wow, you did it. You've like done it. It's such a privilege because most people who want to do it don't get the opportunity to do it.

[36:14] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. And it has nothing to do with talent much of the time. No. Almost none of the time. Right. Exactly. So. Yeah, I mean, I think Hal Prince talked about luck a lot, and it's something that I also really, truly believe that like luck is a huge part of it, whether we want to believe it or not. But I think don't you think to some extent you make your own luck by showing up? Absolutely.

[36:42] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. I think so. I can't remember who where I heard this, but like I'm not going to remember who said it, but it's they said something like luck is where preparation meets opportunity. I've seen that. Yes, I've heard it. And I think that's like so true. If you're prepared and ready for a moment and the moment presents itself. You know, it'll it'll bloom, it'll blossom. And you have to be there, you know, just wanting something isn't enough. And, you know, that's hard.

[37:18] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. I mean, it's also like I'm so really in the last few years as I get older, I'm like also so staunchly an advocate for doing the things that scare you the most. That was the other thing about Leopoldstadt. Oh, yeah. Was it was absolutely terrifying. Yes. I remember we were in rehearsals and we had there were two, you know, adjacent studios at New 42 that we were rehearsing in. And one of the studios wasn't being used and they were staging a scene in the big studio that I wasn't in. And I went to the other studio by myself to like run lines and like, you know, to see if I was off, like trying to just like get off book, you know? And I remember having like a I was able to stave it off, but I like almost had a panic attack in the studio because I was like, you have to do a Tom Stoppard play on Broadway.

People are going to see this. Like, yeah, a lot of people are going to come and see this. A lot of people who gatekeep your career essentially are going to come and see this. Yeah. You have to show up, babe. And it was so scary. But like, I did it. And like, look at what you know what I mean? Like, great. Yes.

[37:39] Brandon Uranowitz: Let's see there. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think luck is a big part of it. Being prepared for the moment is a big part of it. But I think also this like willingness to leap into like really dark, deep, scary waters is like another part of it. Well, saying yes is a huge thing. Yes. One hundred percent. Yeah.

[38:05] Brandon Uranowitz: You know, you do a lot of very emotional work. Let's talk about Falsettos. Such a beautiful production. So beautiful. I'm a very icy person. I don't really, you know, I don't cry at anything. Me too. That killed me. Oh, devastating. Devastating. I mean, talk about another. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. I've been so lucky. But yeah, that was just like another extra. I mean, talk about a unique perspective and like someone who just gets to the heart of something. Yeah. Bill Finn just he like really articulated something and an experience and an era. Yes. In a way that I don't think anybody else could do or has done.

[39:49] Brandon Uranowitz: Right. Well, he kind of wrote it in real time. Right. He wrote it piece by piece as, you know, things were developing. Yeah. And like he doesn't really he didn't read music like he was not like. You know, he would play that he would play something and sing it out loud and he would have someone like transcribe it in real time, which I think just like speaks to again, I think like a theme of this conversation has been like spontaneity and like, yeah, quantity. He just, you know, his unique human perspective literally translates into the music and the writing. Yeah. And I think that was like another that specific production was like a perfectly written piece meeting, I think, perfect casting and a perfect concept.

[40:28] Brandon Uranowitz: You know, when you went in for that show, because you could have played any of the roles, really. Did you know specifically that that was the role that you wanted or did they just call you for that role? Well, you know, this was like a I have to say this was a the the lead up to like the show itself was like very tough for me. I think I don't know who necessarily, but not I think I know that the role of Mendel was offered to to someone else initially when they first put it together. And this person, I think, was in his like early to mid 60s. Like I think he was older and he couldn't do it for some reason. I think there was a TV show. Something happened. And so they went and held auditions. And I'm not lying.

I think my first audition. So it was only for Mendel. I mean, at that point, Christian was cast. Andrew was cast. Stephanie was cast. And the Mendel had been offered but pulled out. So they were auditioning. So I was auditioning for Mendel. And I think I went in for the first time in January. And I think they brought me back in like once a month. And we averaged once a month until like July. Oh, it was like a process. I think I had like five or six callbacks. And every and like the first few times, it was like, they loved you. You did great. It's not going any further. And so like, I had to release it several times. And then they were like, and then weeks later, I get a call. They're like, so Falsettos is back on the table.

They want to bring you in to read with the kids, you know, the young boys or whatever, who are going to play the kid, the kids who are going to come in for Jason. And then I went in, did that. I think I was like the only one there. Like, I don't think they had brought anyone back. Like, it was just me. Oh, that's nice. Right. But then they would be like, so not going any further. So sorry. Oh, and then they would come back and they'd be like, they want to bring you in to read with Stephanie. And so I think what I will say is, it was very confusing. And you know, for lack of a better term, the entire experience was kind of a mindfuck. Yeah, I think the thing that like clinched it for me was the chemistry read with Stephanie.

I think that's what finally convinced them because every time they would bring me back, I'd be like, OK, so like, do they have notes for me? What should I change anything? Like, what should I do differently? And they would always be like, no, no, no. Do exactly what you did. They love what you do. Just do what you did. And I'm like, OK. But I think what really did it was Stephanie. We just connected literally instantly. Did you know her before that? I'd never met her. And as soon as I walked in the door, we did making a home and it was playful and spontaneous. I was like, you know, you know, I was just in the moment. I think I think what ultimately helped me finally get the part was the fact that I had to release it so many times.

And so because I was like, I just don't think this is going to happen. I think it just freed me up to be like, well, fuck it, whatever. Right. It was like your Brokeback Mountain. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. And just Stephanie was just like such a spectacular, playful, open scene partner. And we just had like instant chemistry. And I think, you know, I think ultimately it was just hard for them to like switch their their concept from like someone who was older than Stephanie to someone who was younger than Stephanie and like to like see what that dynamic was. And I think finally, once we worked together, they're like, oh, this works. Cool.

[40:41] Brandon Uranowitz: You know, I will never forget coming to rehearsal for the first time and seeing that cube. Oh, my God. So like blew my mind watching like it was how it. And like it also like there was it was just like such a perfect container for the material, it was playful, it was sort of neutral, so it could like become whatever you wanted. And like Bill's writing, all of it is just like so inherently playful. There's like a childlike wonder to it, which I also think is what makes it so devastating. Yeah. And we just like as a company, as a cast, just like connected so deeply. I think you sort of have to when you're dealing with something like that. Right.

[44:31] Brandon Uranowitz: And it's unexpected, too. So that totally it makes the show fresh. Totally. And I just yeah.

[44:33] Brandon Uranowitz: I'm so grateful for it. It was what, I think every time we see each other now, we're like, I could still be doing that show and be happy. Yeah. And people can still watch that show, which is so important. So, you know, I grew up watching the George Hearn's Sweeney Todd all the time. Me too. The Mandy and Bernadette Sunday in the Park. Exactly. All of those. The Pippin. Right. That's so huge. And, you know, I wish that more shows would be recorded and aired on television like that. But Falsettos is one of those. So that's so special. Oh, it's incredible. And like, I can't, people still come up to me in the streets, who are like, I watch Falsettos all the time. Yeah. Like, I've watched it 20 times.

Like, thank you for that. And I just, I think, you know, I think the thing about, you know, I've always sort of been on the fence about, even though I was such a fan of them, I think now that I'm in it, I'm like, oh, but theater's ephemeral. It's supposed to like, happen and then disappear. But I think if you can like really capture it, which I think the Falsettos Pro Shot really, really did so beautifully. If you can capture it, then like, essential. And I really do wish more shows did it. Yeah. And there are, you know, some people in the country only get their theater when they see the Tonys. And for somebody to be able to watch Falsettos that's living in, I don't know, like Idaho. Yep. You know, it could be them somehow.

Correct. And it has. And people have told me that it has. And especially a story like that. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's really important that people see that. Yes. Even today. Correct. Very, very important. I know. And I know you guys are still running, but I almost feel like can we just collectively lock up like nine o'clock on like Sunday and just ragtime get broadcast on every television? I know. Maybe that will help. I know. I know. Yeah. We talk about it. I really, really hope that happens. I do too. I mean, look, these things are expensive and everyone's really struggling. But I do think the country needs it in some way. And I know that sounds like hyperbolic and dramatic, but I really do think people need to see it.

I know people need to see it. People tell me that they needed to see it. Yeah. Right. They're flying in from all over the world to see it. Yeah. No, it's an important story, especially again, especially today. It's really, really important. We need it. The world needs it. We do. We do. Yeah. But I hope that the people in New York and the surrounding areas will all go see it. I hope so. I mean, they are. I mean, people are coming five, six times. I know people who have gone multiple times just because it's the music, the story. It's just everything about it is just top. Yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty perfect show. Thanks. Yeah, it is. What's it been like to perform that score at Lincoln Center?

[47:37] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, my God. I think for our production specifically, I really can't. And the way like Lear has crafted the way that we tell it, I just I can't imagine a better space than the Beaumont for it. It's this sort of miraculous space where you can. How do I want to? OK, the thing about ragtime that I think is so special is you get this epic, grand, massive sort of universal look at America and you hear it in the score, you hear it in the songs, you see it with the people on stage and you zoom in to like really, really intimate, specific moments in people's lives that are, you know, as grand as something as like, you know, the night that Goldman spoke at Union Square is to as intimate as something like gliding is like you get this like full spectrum of intimate and epic.

And that's like exactly what the like the Beaumont Theater offers because you're in this thrust space and the the seats are like it's like stadium seating. I mean, I can see everyone in the audience. Yeah. And but it's big. The Beaumont stage is like 60 feet deep. It's yeah, it's massive. And I feel like I'm in my bedroom with the audience, like we are so close. So the Beaumont like really holds both the entire spectrum of what ragtime is. It allows us to be intimate and small and specific while also allowing us to like be expansive and grand and epic. So it's just sort of this like perfect storm, I think. And I can't imagine it being more effective in another space. And also, you know, you're in Lincoln Center. It just feels special being there, too. It's, you know, the center of the arts.

[49:50] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, it's the center of the arts in New York. It's like our country's closest thing, I think, to like a national theater, which I wish we had, but we don't. And certainly the Kennedy Center is not that anymore. So it just feels deeply American, deeply like deeply rooted in American culture and the arts. And yeah, like you said, like walking up to it. I mean, also, the other thing is I was talking about this with Joshua the other day. The thing about Lincoln Center as a Broadway space that I find so unique and special, especially for a show like Ragtime is, you know, when you go and see a show on Broadway in Midtown in like where Broadway is the most the majority of the Broadway theaters are, you experience this thing, you have whatever the experience is, and then you're sort of like vomited out into, you know, the underbelly of New York.

Like it's it like you have to you're sort of in survival mode when you leave the theater and you can't you have to figure out how to navigate through the people and Times Square and the lights and the sounds and the taxis and all of this.

[51:00] Eila Mell: Yeah. And it it doesn't really offer you the time and the space to like process what you just experienced. And I think the thing that I love about Lincoln Center is it's far away from all that. You're still in New York City, but it's on the Upper West Side. You're like a little you're far away from the fray. And it's in this like beautiful cultural arts plaza. So you have it. It just like by nature allows you to leave the theater and like process.

[51:34] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, you have quiet time where you never have. Yeah. So I think that's also like a special thing about where we are is like this is like a deeply moving experience for people. And I think being able to like leave the theater and have you time.

[51:45] Eila Mell: Yeah, it is special and important. It's so funny that you say that what the night I was there, you know, I was leaving and I was coming down, you know, towards the fountain. And I ran into Max Clayton, who had seen the show. And he was just he was reflecting. He was really just having a moment. He had sort of pulled over on the side and was just there deep in thought. And it was just such a kind of beautiful thing to see because you really don't see that a lot. You know, we're running. We're always running.

[52:19] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, that's we don't have the opportunity. You just you have to figure out how you're going to get home. So, you know, we talk about the music in Ragtime, but let's also not forget to mention the beautiful book by Terrence McNally.

[52:29] Eila Mell: Yeah. I think one of the greatest books ever written for a musical.

[52:35] Brandon Uranowitz: Well, one of the best writers, too. Well, exactly. Yeah, because he is just one of the greats. And how lovely that Tom Curtahy is one of the producers of the show. I mean, the way Tom talks about Terrence is like so moving. Yeah, so beautiful. They had such a special, beautiful relationship. And I feel so honored that like and grateful that like that Tom has like shepherded helped to shepherd this production that has been so successful. I think that's deeply important to him and to Terrence. And yeah, it's just wonderful. It feels like the show is being taken care of in a way that you don't usually get.

[53:15] Eila Mell: Correct. It's you know, I actually felt like similarly with Leopold Stott and Sonia Friedman, who I think, you know, we don't often get to have these relationships with producers who feel so connected to something.

[53:28] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. You know, Sonia as a Jewish woman also was just like, right, like just felt very protective of this thing. And I think when you move away from the like business aspect of it, and it becomes emotional in a way that like Sonia did with Leopold Stott and Tom feels with Ragtime, like, yeah, it just creates a different like work environment. And it creates a different final product, I think.

[54:03] Brandon Uranowitz: But the thing I when I was, you know, I did musicals as a kid. But then when I went to high school, I sort of discovered and fell in love with, you know, Sam Shepard and Tennessee Williams. And like, I just I discovered Eugene O'Neill, August Wilson, like I discovered theater straight plays that I didn't have any sort of access to as a kid. And when I went to college, I didn't go to college for musical theater, I went to college for acting, I was in the Meisner studio at Tisch. And then I was in the classical studio where I did Shakespeare for a year, I was like, I want to do Shakespeare for the rest of my life. And so when I like, got started in the business as an adult, I wanted to do plays, I wanted to be an actor, I, I didn't see myself doing many music, many musicals. And I think a lot of that is because I, I struggled to find books in musicals, librettos, like Terrence's in ragtime.

[55:03] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[55:10] Brandon Uranowitz: And I just feel very, very lucky to be to be able to have like, done both to be able to do plays and musicals. But I also, this is sort of like the dream for someone like me who does both. I have beautiful, beautiful songs to sing by Lynn and Steve that are gorgeous. But I have like, some of my favorite scenes that I've ever done as an actor in the same piece. And that to me is like the greatest gift as someone who does what I do specifically, you know, the thing about ragtime, which I find so interesting is like, there's so many epic sort of anthemic songs, there's wheels of a dream, there's back to before there's make them hear you. But Tata has the like, intimate quiet moments. And I am so moved by that sort of counterpoint that he is to the rest of the piece.

And his book scenes are just beautiful. You know, those scenes that he has with mother in act two are like truly some of my favorite things that I've ever done on a Broadway stage. And the audience is so glad that father is gone at that point. Sorry, Colin.

[56:24] Eila Mell: No, I know it's.

[56:30] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, you find you get to see these two storylines sort of reach a point where you can like, finally feel that the two of them are going to be okay.

[56:39] Eila Mell: Yeah, right. You know, and all the storylines because then we get the cutest thing ever that little call house comes out.

[56:45] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh my God, that's the cutest thing. So you feel like you know, everyone is going to be okay because they're together because these three groups of people are together.

[56:54] Eila Mell: Yeah, totally. You know, and at the same time, I you know, not to sort of like blow it up. I just, you know, there's also like deep, deep tragedy in it, too.

[57:02] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, this little boy will not get to be raised by his real parents, right?

[57:10] Eila Mell: You know, he will be okay. He will be taken care of by people who love him and care for him.

[57:16] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, I mean, whole house has a very, sorry, go ahead.

[57:23] Eila Mell: No, no, no, no, like, and, yeah, he will not be able to, to be raised by, by his parents, right? Because of the system that he exists in. And like, how is that going to be for him? I mean, this is the thing that I also like love about ragtime, too. And our production specifically is, you know, I think it asks more questions than it answers in the end. And that to me is like very exciting as an audience member, I think.

[57:48] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. You know, there are many call house has a very dramatic storyline. But sadly, there are far too many Sarah's, you know, what happens to her in the story, you know, and it's, it's a good reminder to see that and especially with the character that we grow to care so much about, you know, hopefully, it will resonate and people will take that and remember that when they leave the theater and I think they do.

[58:11] Eila Mell: They do. They definitely do. And like you said, your production asks quite leaves the audience asking questions, which is great, because then it does continue the dialogue outside of the space. And hopefully, like we've been talking about change.

[58:27] Brandon Uranowitz: Exactly. People are talking about it. Yeah, we haven't wrapped it up in a tight little bow.

[58:31] Eila Mell: Right. There is no bow, unfortunately.

[58:34] Brandon Uranowitz: Exactly. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. We've kept you very long. This is lovely.

[58:38] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, my God. I mean, I can talk about the show literally all day, every day.

[58:42] Eila Mell: All right. So we'll call you tomorrow.

[58:45] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, I'll talk to you tomorrow.

[58:47] Eila Mell: Yep. But please come back many, many times.

[58:51] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, I'd be happy to have. And thank you, everyone. Go see Ragtime. It'll be running through August. Is that right? August 2nd.

[58:57] Brandon Uranowitz: Okay. Come check us out. Yes. See it again. See it again and again. Yeah, there's different kids.

[59:03] Eila Mell: I mean, that's gonna change.

[59:05] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. Maybe you didn't see Shayna Taube. She's coming back.

[59:08] Eila Mell: Oh, she's back now. Okay, great.

[59:10] Brandon Uranowitz: Yep. So you know, yeah, great to go.

[59:15] Eila Mell: Yeah. So thank you again.

[59:19] Brandon Uranowitz: Thank you. And we will see everyone next time on Behind the Awards.

[59:22] Eila Mell: Bye-bye.

[59:23] Brandon Uranowitz: Bye.