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[0:00] Teresa Attridge: Ever wonder what it takes to make a new musical sing? Our mission is to give you an inclusive look behind the scenes. We're interviewing the creatives who are changing musical theater one eleven o'clock number at a time. This is your Backstage Pass.

[1:01] Teresa Attridge: Welcome back to part two of our conversation with Jessica Francis Fichter and Colleen Francis about this moving new musical. Dandelion is a deep exploration of the world of caretaking, trauma, healing, and responsibility seen through the eyes of a daughter torn between pursuing her dreams and caring for her mother who's grappling with addiction and mental health issues within a broken health care system. We meet Jane, a young woman who faces profound questions of responsibility and sacrifice when she must decide to be a mom. Will she decide between attending college in pursuit of her lifelong dream or staying home to care for her mother, Lila? As family tensions and mounting pressures only worsen and Lila continually begs her to stay, Jane has to make the impossible decision to leave in the hopes of making her dreams and Lila's come true. All the way to the end for a game where we decide which musical theater character would be our ideal college roommate.

[3:38] Jessica Francis Fichter: When we were there for most of the shows, the number of humans who wanted to talk to us about the fact that it had hit something in them that they had felt like they could not talk about or didn't have the language necessarily to explain why this play necessarily spoke to them in the way it did. It was overwhelming in a really good way. Also in a really hard way. We did a lot of listening, but I think there's this thing in our society where we don't talk about some of that. It's hard to have those conversations and something about this show cracks that open in a way that we did not anticipate.

[4:21] Colleen Francis: And it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that because I think if Haley were to be on this call, what she would say is, I want other people to be able to speak their truth because I never felt like I could.

[4:33] Jessica Francis Fichter: Absolutely. Right. I mean, there is an innate shame to it. I feel like we as a society don't hold a lot of space for it, even in areas where it might not be as shameful. There just isn't space for it. And I think one of the things that makes people feel that the story, I mean, they'll literally come up to us and say, how did you know about my life? How did you write my story? But the story itself is not universal, but a lot of the emotions and experiences within it are. And we can see ourselves within those in a really visceral way. And we can feel those emotions in a very visceral way.

[5:10] Teresa Attridge: Yeah, absolutely.

[5:40] Jessica Francis Fichter: And I think it's such a cathartic moment to know they're not alone or to know that pain is something that has been shared. It can help them process in the way that Jane is processing her own grief, her own experience of the story.

[5:52] Colleen Francis: And Lila as well.

[5:53] Jessica Francis Fichter: And Lila as well. Exactly. That's so true, Teresa. That's why I had to have this piece on the podcast because I know it doesn't touch my circumstance. I believe as a theater maker that we have to make stories that will unlock those experiences, unlock that catharsis for those out there who haven't yet been able to experience it.

[6:08] Colleen Francis: Yeah, I think that you guys also did a really nice job of the characters have realistic takeaways from what they decide to do about Lila. I particularly I think Start Again is really beautiful. I love Jordan. I was very obsessed with Jordan in the piece. For the podcast listeners, for the barnacles, Jordan is Jane's older brother, much older, eight years older, I believe, is what it said. And so he had lived through his own version of the relationship with his mother and her mental illness. And he was the one who he had already, like, quote, unquote, gotten out, he had left the situation, but he always came back for Jane, he was like, I don't care what's going on with me and mom, I want to make sure I'm here for you.

[6:48] Jessica Francis Fichter: It's very interesting, because their dynamics were incredibly different. Jordan and Jane had very different approaches. Jordan was a lot more confrontational, a lot more resentful, they butt heads so much more. So while Jane was always trying to please her to keep her from having too emotional a spell or like didn't want to provoke her, Jordan was the exact opposite. He was like, no, like you owe an explanation to me, we have to confront this, you cannot keep avoiding this, we have to talk about it.

[7:17] Colleen Francis: I think that where they end up, there's a song called Start Again that I really loved. And I think getting to see, especially for Lila, and for people who identify with Lila, specifically, there is a healing to seeing someone say, I remember who you are in your best times. And I believe you can be that person. And I know that you are more than just this, when you were writing that song.

[7:40] Jessica Francis Fichter: And I'm especially curious about your opinions about the differences between Jordan and Jane, obviously. But when you write a song like Start Again, do you go in knowing you want that resolution to happen? Or is that something that sort of happened as you were discovering the story?

[7:55] Colleen Francis: We knew that we wanted a resolution to happen where and how we messed around with a lot. But Start Again as a number worked so well from the get-go that even in all the spots we've tried it, it works as a reconciliation. So it has remained with the project from early on. But the fight, flight or freeze or fawn responses all come in and out for different characters at different times.

[8:23] Jessica Francis Fichter: And Jordan teeters between this flight of like, I've got to get out of here, I've got to leave this family and this fight where he comes back there and he can't not engage and speak his mind and tell them how he really feels about everything.

[8:38] Colleen Francis: And I resonate with that character a lot. Because I think that there is still resilience and strength in flight or there can be. Jordan has an opportunity to learn that throughout the process of the show, and not just be potentially cowardly in leaving, he gets a chance to really see why he's doing it and change potentially change his ways.

[9:05] Jessica Francis Fichter: I was just gonna say the men in this show, we get more feedback about the men in the show. Oh my god.

[9:12] Colleen Francis: Jordan and Daniel, the dad and the brother and it's so interesting because like we even call them the dad and the brother sometimes because it's a decidedly female story and we chose to center the women, but it is so interesting.

[9:34] Jessica Francis Fichter: I think with Jordan, so many people resonate with him because he does take this sort of route of like, hey, he's kind of therapized himself, like he's taken a different approach to this, which is like, I'm myself and I'm going to get out, which is much easier, I think sometimes for men to do than women just because of the societal norms. I think so many people are like, well, then we want Jordan as a young child and we want Jordan and we're like, but it's not Jordan's story, right? You get to listen, I love that you love him. That just shows you've written a great character. But that doesn't mean that you need to insert that into my opinion.

[10:11] Colleen Francis: Well, we had one version of the show where it was just like the Jordan show. He was everywhere.

[10:19] Jessica Francis Fichter: Now I feel like there's like a good amount of Jordan in this.

[10:22] Colleen Francis: I think we're really close on him. And then Daniel, man, he ticks all the dads off. He makes the dads in the room so angry.

[10:29] Jessica Francis Fichter: Interesting.

[10:30] Colleen Francis: Why is that? Because he really just leaves and he abdicates responsibility. He's like, well, I'm heading out here. I'm going to go to the beach. Can you talk more about what they respond to?

[10:39] Jessica Francis Fichter: He represents avoidance in a more unhealthy way than Jordan does. I think that he deeply loves his daughter. And I think that's clear. And I think he's trying to share with her the way he has learned to deal with Lila and what is happening. And unfortunately, it is through some unhealthy means, but that's how he's keeping himself afloat and alive. But I think there's this sort of want for dads for him to come in in the end and save her. But the reality is he has his own demons that he's fighting. And we have to sit and be comfortable with that because Jane has to sit and be comfortable with it.

[11:11] Colleen Francis: Yeah, absolutely.

[11:26] Jessica Francis Fichter: You know, there was another song in the show. It's the second song. It's called Dad Joke. And I absolutely loved it. And it was so hilarious. And being a dad myself, like I don't do dad jokes to that level, but it was so smart and so hilarious and so well written and so charming. And I initially was like, oh, maybe we could find a way to play it. But as I was going through the show, I was like, oh, that doesn't feel like the right song to play. Because as you said, it's such a great example of avoidance to joke away everything, to not fully emotionally engage, to be present, but not to be in the situation.

[11:57] Colleen Francis: That is his character to a T. I mean, even though Dad Joke was hilarious, I also, on some level, understood what was happening there. That this character was not going to be the one to save the day. He's not equipped. He's trying, I guess, to relate as best he can. But I don't I didn't see that as possible. And I just knew that from that song. But also psychologically, we understand him in a way where I don't think that's possible.

[12:20] Jessica Francis Fichter: Jordan is such a great compliment to Jane because one leaves and one is thinking about staying. And that conversation is such a great tension point in the show. I feel like we talked a lot about the song already. I think we set it up. Should we go ahead and play?

[12:31] Colleen Francis: Oh, Start Again. Yeah. Like, should we go ahead and play that song? Can you share who's performing the song?

[12:36] Jessica Francis Fichter: This is another recording that we did after our 29 hour reading. And Kevin Perdido is the singer on this. And he did such a beautiful job really capturing the emotions of this piece.

[12:49] Colleen Francis: He really did. Here is Start Again performed by Kevin Perdido.

[12:53] ♪ Musical number: "Start Again" — performed by Kevin Perdido ♪

[13:57] ♪ Musical number: "Start Again" — performed by Kevin Perdido ♪

[15:42] Jessica Francis Fichter: So he tells her right before the song starts, because she says, I can't do this. I can't be alone. He goes, you can. I was there for it. I remember the kind of mom you were when things were good. But I think something people sometimes don't keep in mind is that especially with something like bipolar, right, where it's like it's phases, it's mania, and then you're level again, is there are going to be times where things are really good. You could go like a couple weeks, a couple months where there are like no issues, no episodes, and things are really nice. And that's when you're like, oh, I have my parent back. But the thing is, is that it's like your parent never left. Your parent is still your parent when they're going through the mania, when they're going through the depression, when all of that is going on.

But you are able to say no, but this is not all you are, because he says, you just have to take care of yourself. Go to your doctors, take the meds as prescribed. There are times when this was OK, and you can do it again, and we can do this again, because it's also, I think, really validating to hear that people remember the good that you did when you are in the hard part of your struggle. And I think that that was one of the many ways that you guys really humanized Lila in this as the person who is causing a lot of the harm. This is not like an abusive or malicious parent. This is a parent who is sick, a parent who needs help, who is struggling with like a very real issue. And I think that you having Jordan as opposed to Jane sing this and having the child who is showing more difficulty and who has the more combative relationship being the one to say like, this is reparable.

I think that that's a really beautiful gift you give the audience, especially for those who need to hear how lovable they are. I think that's also just so true, not necessarily even with mental illness, but so often with a loved one, you have to view them in two ways, and it could just be aging. You have to view the person that you knew that you loved and was just such a wonderful person, but because of age or mental illness or some reason, they diminish or there's something about them that doesn't feel right anymore. So you have these two views of them and you wish so badly you could go back to the version of the person that you remember. But you also have to acknowledge that there's who they are now and you're holding spaces for both at the same time. That's another experience of the show that I felt was very, very true.

[18:24] Colleen Francis: Yeah, I think, too, you know, when we remember like who we were, who we are, we go back to where we started with this show, right, is that Jane is in the process of becoming. This is someone who we've seen like these flashbacks of her as a child and what she really wanted and seeing her kind of struggle with that. And then you had the opportunity to work with kids at that age, college kids, right, because you got to workshop this at Michigan State. So I'm actually really curious how the students who had truly just recently done the whole college application process, how that felt for them to work on this piece that for some of them might have felt like incredibly close to home. But for some, at the very least, they know how it feels to be ready to move on.

[19:02] Jessica Francis Fichter: It was awesome. Yeah, it was. Right. I got to spend a week with them. I was really curious because this show is really for them. That's the demographic mothers and then young folks, I think. And then there are people in between, you know, but it was really important to me that the young women really felt like these characters were realistic to them. The best thing was they loved the show. They were so invested. They were so excited for us to be there and to talk about their experience of working on Jane or working on Gabby or working on Rage, what it meant to them. You should anticipate that. But I didn't. I didn't anticipate that. I just was kind of like, I hope that this resonates with them because I'm almost 40. So I don't know if my writing at all is going to resonate, you know, with an 18-year-old. And they were so lovely.

[20:01] Colleen Francis: There is one person that I do want to shout out publicly. Her name is Caitlin and Caitlin. Caitlin found Dandelion on TikTok early, like 2020. Oh, my God. This was like a manifestation. Actually, pandemic days. Wow. Yeah. She manifested this for us. So she was 16. She literally I knew her because she always shared her stuff. She always commented. We met Adam. He decided we were going to MSU. I get this message from Caitlin who says, I go to MSU and I am a theater major. And Caitlin ended up being the assistant director.

[20:38] Jessica Francis Fichter: Oh, that's beautiful.

[20:40] Colleen Francis: The artistic voice in the room. I'm going to cry. It was amazing. And she has been our biggest cheerleader and fan from day one. And then she got to be a voice in the room. And her other major is like psychology and mental health. So this is her show. This is right down the line. This is the ideal. Shout out to Caitlin.

[21:01] Jessica Francis Fichter: Shout out to Caitlin Kramer.

[21:03] Colleen Francis: Shout out. Oh, my God. You're going to send her this episode. She's going to die. She made us Dandelion soaps, too, which is awesome. Handmade.

[21:11] Jessica Francis Fichter: Oh, an angel. Incredible. My God. So MSU, they did a full kind of workshop production in their black box. So it was fully staged, but they didn't have a lot of tech. You know, it wasn't like we had a ton of lighting cues. Literally, the scenery was chairs and they put, you know, a blanket over it to make it a couch.

[21:32] Colleen Francis: Yeah, I would say classic wooden block situation.

[21:34] Jessica Francis Fichter: Yes. And what it showed us is that the show doesn't need bells and whistles.

[21:40] Colleen Francis: Oh, absolutely not.

[21:42] Jessica Francis Fichter: And like viscerally, instinctually, I totally agree with what was just said. And the gift of that is huge because, you know, if you don't have all the stuff, the show itself is working at the core. Obviously, we walked away with notes and you're always working. But I think what we learned mostly is Colleen and I and Haley aren't embedded in that community. We didn't have people come who were cheering for us with the exception of our mom. She came. She came. But the core was there. These other moms and these other students loved working on it. And that's such a gift.

[22:14] Colleen Francis: I loved, too, the academic approach that they brought to the piece and the resilience that they used in order to play such sensitive roles. They were incredibly mature in understanding of the subject matter. It was amazing to behold, honestly. I mean, we've done this so many times. And to see them be able to equip themselves with that resilience was awesome. You said earlier, like, I'm in my 40s. Will these words resonate with a young person?

[22:41] Jessica Francis Fichter: They'll tell you if it doesn't.

[22:45] Colleen Francis: I will say I really appreciated the lack of attempts at slang in this script. I feel like it's really easy to fall into that trap when you write younger characters. Slang changes so frequently with social media that the minute you put it in a show, it's not popular anymore. So I was like, thank you for having them just talk to each other like people.

[23:04] Jessica Francis Fichter: I think I put dude in one of the lyrics, and they all were like, we don't say dude anymore. I was like, oh, sorry, my bad, my bad. I am from California. I'm not going to hazard to say what they say now instead because I'm sure I would get that wrong.

[23:18] Colleen Francis: We have the song Start Again. We think that Jordan is going to convince Lila to let Jane go. And there is an effort there. Towards the end of the play, it becomes very clear that ultimately it's got to be Jane's decision about whether she's going to go. There's even a scholarship she gets. And Lila kind of relapses into I need you to stay. I need you to stay. I need you to stay. I'm thinking about those MSU students because they know that experience of just having to leave. But can you talk about the song Dandelion and the role that plays in the show?

[23:46] Jessica Francis Fichter: Yeah. Spoiler alert from this point on, I guess. Yes. You can stop listening now if you don't want to know how the show turns out. You can stop now. Barnacles. Thank you for using the word barnacles, by the way. We always love it when the guests do that. It's so cute.

[24:01] Colleen Francis: Oh, yeah. It's so cute.

[24:02] Jessica Francis Fichter: This song, it means the world to our entire team. The words are straight from the mouth of Haley. I was really trying to understand what her decision felt like when she did decide. I'm going to remind everyone again, there's a spoiler here, when she did decide to leave. I spoke with her on the phone and I just had an honest conversation. I wrote down the words she said and that's literally the song. I've got chills right now. It is chilling and it is incredibly moving and emotional every time we see it. I can't believe I still cry when I listen to it. I've heard it a thousand times and it still gets me. It is such a difficult decision and a heartbreaking moment. When Jane reconciles her decision, her entire history and memories that we've been seeing throughout this memory play, musical? All those things.

[25:00] Colleen Francis: Yeah.

[25:01] Jessica Francis Fichter: Come back and she gets to have this moment where she reconciles with her child self. The second that young Jane says, I'm so glad you made this decision. I'm proud of you. I mean, the whole room just always breaks down because it's, you get it. You get it. You understand the stakes. No matter who you are, where you come from, you can feel it. That was a great setup. And who is performing this song?

[25:20] Colleen Francis: So this is Hannah Bonette and Sadie Wisks performing Dandelion. Here is Dandelion performed by Hannah Bonette and Sadie Wisks.

[25:28] ♪ Musical number: "Dandelion" — performed by Hannah Bonette and Sadie Wisks ♪

[27:55] Jessica Francis Fichter: I'm so scared. What might happen to her if I'm not there?

[28:03] Colleen Francis: I have to leave you here now.

[28:05] Jessica Francis Fichter: Are you sure?

[28:07] Colleen Francis: I have to go find out who I am, away from here.

[28:11] Jessica Francis Fichter: Jane, I'm so proud of you.

[28:15] Colleen Francis: Dandelions are meant for flying away.

[28:45] Jessica Francis Fichter: I'm going to be. And it has been. The thing that I now am understanding through our conversation, Colleen, you said something like 40 minutes ago or 30 minutes ago. You said there is strength in leaving.

[28:54] Colleen Francis: Yeah.

[28:55] Jessica Francis Fichter: It's just so present in this song.

[28:57] Colleen Francis: That's why musical theater works.

[28:59] Jessica Francis Fichter: Absolutely. The music is able to communicate that. Again, if you go back in this podcast, talking about how the older version of Jane and young Jane need to have the moment of reconciliation before she can move forward.

[29:10] Colleen Francis: That also structurally happens in this piece.

[29:13] Jessica Francis Fichter: That's really moving. I'm realizing I didn't say that we're releasing the demo.

[29:17] Colleen Francis: And you can do that right now.

[29:19] Jessica Francis Fichter: I was like, I should have said it in the setup, but it's really cool.

[29:22] Colleen Francis: Oh, no, you can say it after, now that they've heard it and they're emotional.

[29:24] Jessica Francis Fichter: And guess what, Barnacles? They're releasing the demo of the song, so you can get it.

[29:28] Colleen Francis: If you want to get emotionally wrecked again, over and over again.

[29:32] Jessica Francis Fichter: You can!

[29:33] Colleen Francis: Friday at 9 o'clock.

[29:35] Jessica Francis Fichter: Like, I want to get emotionally wrecked. Therapy is all about revisiting the same memory from a new perspective, baby.

[29:40] Colleen Francis: Where is it going to be available?

[29:42] Jessica Francis Fichter: So June 24th, we will have it released everywhere.

[29:46] Colleen Francis: So Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, Amazon.

[29:50] Jessica Francis Fichter: It's available now.

[29:51] Colleen Francis: Oh my God, what are you waiting for?

[29:54] Jessica Francis Fichter: Listen to it again.

[29:56] Colleen Francis: I dare you, Barnacles.

[29:58] Jessica Francis Fichter: That's probably a great way to support your show, too.

[30:01] Colleen Francis: Yeah, absolutely.

[30:02] Jessica Francis Fichter: Absolutely. And I say this all the time, and I'm sure you all say it, too. Support can look so many different ways for new work.

[30:09] Colleen Francis: You know, you're just kind of—I make this analogy all the time. Everybody's like, what was your path? What was your path? I said, y'all, I'm in the forest.

[30:17] Jessica Francis Fichter: I'm in the forest, sort of like going through the trees. And it's like, oh, there's a light that way. All right, let's go this way for a little while, and then we're going to go this way.

[30:26] Colleen Francis: Into the woods and out of the woods. Nashville, we go.

[30:31] Jessica Francis Fichter: Listening to a song, creating a playlist based on that song, following us on socials.

[30:37] Colleen Francis: We're all telling a story to producers or theaters that it's a play that they want to see fully produced.

[30:43] Jessica Francis Fichter: That story of people wanting it helps us to say, look, this story, although difficult, is marketable. People want to see this.

[30:51] Colleen Francis: That is how anyone can support us here as we're making our way through the forest.

[30:59] Jessica Francis Fichter: Like and subscribe.

[31:00] Colleen Francis: Yes.

[31:01] Jessica Francis Fichter: Like and subscribe.

[31:02] Colleen Francis: Smash that like button.

[31:03] Jessica Francis Fichter: To y'all, to us.

[31:06] Colleen Francis: Everybody's liking and subscribing.

[31:08] Jessica Francis Fichter: Support the arts.

[31:09] Colleen Francis: Yeah.

[31:10] Jessica Francis Fichter: Support the arts.

[31:12] Colleen Francis: Fantastic. Incredible.

[31:14] Jessica Francis Fichter: Well, now that we're all besties, maybe it's time to play our game, pals.

[31:19] Colleen Francis: I think we should.

[31:20] Jessica Francis Fichter: Game time.

[31:21] Colleen Francis: I'm scared.

[31:22] Jessica Francis Fichter: I think we should. Barnacles, it's your fan favorite segment. It is time to play our game.

[31:28] Colleen Francis: And this week it's going to be called Broadway Bestie.

[31:31] Jessica Francis Fichter: Now, pals and I had a similar thought, but ultimately like had to lead it in this direction.

[31:37] Colleen Francis: We started this podcast with Jane and Gabby. We got to go all the way back.

[31:41] Jessica Francis Fichter: So the idea is, Jess, Colleen, if you had to pick any musical theater character in the canon to be your college roommate, who would it be?

[31:50] Colleen Francis: What are you majoring in?

[31:52] Jessica Francis Fichter: Okay. I got to think.

[31:54] Colleen Francis: Okay.

[31:55] Jessica Francis Fichter: Oh, okay. So you've got to think. But Jess, you're nodding. Do we have an answer?

[31:59] Colleen Francis: Do we know?

[32:00] Jessica Francis Fichter: We have to warm up the guests, but if you want to go first, go for it.

[32:03] Colleen Francis: Because of my 20-year-old self.

[32:05] Jessica Francis Fichter: Okay.

[32:06] Colleen Francis: All right. Roger from Rent.

[32:08] Jessica Francis Fichter: Oh, mine's Rent, too.

[32:09] Colleen Francis: I thought about Roger, actually.

[32:11] Jessica Francis Fichter: Roger from Rent, so he can sit around and play the guitar.

[32:14] Colleen Francis: Now, here's the problematic thing. It can only be in a dorm because his parents have to pay the rent.

[32:19] Jessica Francis Fichter: Like I can't pay my rent.

[32:22] Colleen Francis: That's right. Remember, this is college.

[32:24] Jessica Francis Fichter: Right.

[32:25] Colleen Francis: So it works. And then we have to move out because I got to pay my rent.

[32:28] Jessica Francis Fichter: You know what I mean? I just feel like him writing one great song on the other side of the wall would be a really iconic moment.

[32:36] Colleen Francis: So I think I am probably majoring in theater.

[32:41] Jessica Francis Fichter: But I think Roger's parents required him to major in business, but he never goes to class.

[32:47] Colleen Francis: I love his hypothetical storyline.

[32:51] Jessica Francis Fichter: He's a classic Gabby.

[32:52] Colleen Francis: Classic Gabby.

[32:54] Jessica Francis Fichter: Yep. Had to get that 1550 on the SAT.

[32:58] Colleen Francis: Yep.

[32:59] Jessica Francis Fichter: But he secretly hates it and is really just wanting to become a rock star.

[33:02] Colleen Francis: Oh, yeah.

[33:03] Jessica Francis Fichter: Yeah.

[33:04] Colleen Francis: All right, Jess, you pick for me.

[33:06] Jessica Francis Fichter: No, just kidding.

[33:07] Colleen Francis: I think that –

[33:08] Jessica Francis Fichter: Sibling.

[33:09] Colleen Francis: Well, mine's Rent, too.

[33:11] Jessica Francis Fichter: That's okay.

[33:12] Colleen Francis: Once again, being overshadowed.

[33:14] Jessica Francis Fichter: This is a sister dynamic.

[33:16] Colleen Francis: It's getting therapeutic in here.

[33:18] Jessica Francis Fichter: The results of trauma.

[33:19] Colleen Francis: I was going to pick –

[33:22] Jessica Francis Fichter: No, we're pretty competitive.

[33:24] Colleen Francis: I was going to say Rent as well, and it was going to be Mimi because, I don't know, I'm kind of a party girl who's a hot mess, so that would be fun as roommates.

[33:30] Jessica Francis Fichter: Or it would be bad.

[33:33] Colleen Francis: You were like, in the evening, I've got to roam.

[33:37] Jessica Francis Fichter: And then we would both drop out because I think we would be such terrible influences on each other.

[33:43] Colleen Francis: But our major would have briefly been culinary studies or something.

[33:47] Jessica Francis Fichter: Outrageous.

[33:48] Colleen Francis: Yeah.

[33:49] Jessica Francis Fichter: Film studies, culinary studies, yeah.

[33:51] Colleen Francis: Yeah, something creative and whimsical.

[33:53] Jessica Francis Fichter: Whimsical enough for us to drop out when we realized it was actually hard and we had to apply ourselves.

[33:57] Colleen Francis: Yeah.

[33:58] Jessica Francis Fichter: I love that.

[33:59] Colleen Francis: I love it so much.

[34:00] Jessica Francis Fichter: Or she'd just be a dance major.

[34:01] Colleen Francis: She's like, do what you love.

[34:03] Jessica Francis Fichter: Right?

[34:04] Colleen Francis: Do what you love.

[34:05] Jessica Francis Fichter: That's what Roger says to you, do what you love.

[34:07] Colleen Francis: Yes.

[34:08] Jessica Francis Fichter: Well, he's actually like, poor baby.

[34:09] Colleen Francis: It's like, oh, okay, Roger.

[34:10] Jessica Francis Fichter: Dang, Roger, calm down.

[34:12] Colleen Francis: God, Roger, we get it.

[34:14] Jessica Francis Fichter: You play the guitar and you're sad.

[34:18] Colleen Francis: You have to write one good song.

[34:20] Jessica Francis Fichter: Please write one.

[34:22] Colleen Francis: I mean, I'm talking shit, but I cannot tell you how many Rogers I have quote unquote dated.

[34:27] Jessica Francis Fichter: You know what I mean?

[34:28] Colleen Francis: You got to type and it's Roger.

[34:29] Jessica Francis Fichter: Yeah.

[34:30] Colleen Francis: I have a type and it's any man who's a little sad.

[34:33] Jessica Francis Fichter: My first pick was Glinda.

[34:34] Colleen Francis: Listen.

[34:35] Jessica Francis Fichter: It'd be fun.

[34:36] Colleen Francis: She has all the cool shit in her room.

[34:38] Jessica Francis Fichter: She just wants a little bestie.

[34:40] Colleen Francis: She's going to make me popular.

[34:42] Jessica Francis Fichter: Doesn't need to. Not interested, but she'd do it.

[34:45] Colleen Francis: Do you want to be popular, Teresa?

[34:46] Jessica Francis Fichter: No, I have to know this.

[34:47] Colleen Francis: I mean, here's the thing is it's less about, I don't want to be popular because I went to an all girls high school.

[34:51] Jessica Francis Fichter: Popular is like one of those things where I'm like, it's more so the fact that it's like, I think there's something to someone who is like, it is okay. If you want people to like you, you know what I mean?

[35:02] Colleen Francis: I grew up as like one of those kids who was like, I hate everything.

[35:05] Jessica Francis Fichter: No one would believe this.

[35:06] Colleen Francis: Like knowing me as an adult, I was like the angriest kid.

[35:09] Jessica Francis Fichter: I was like, have you seen Daria?

[35:11] Colleen Francis: Yes, I was Daria, but just way, way less monotone.

[35:16] Jessica Francis Fichter: That makes so much sense to me about you.

[35:20] Colleen Francis: Oh my God, Teresa.

[35:21] Jessica Francis Fichter: Yeah, I was Daria, but way less monotone and a lot more violent.

[35:25] Colleen Francis: Like I was just, I was so angry and I did have a Glinda in my life and she did tell me when we were kids, she went, you know what, Teresa, it would be really easy to just let people like you.

[35:30] Jessica Francis Fichter: She didn't even say to make them.

[35:35] Colleen Francis: She went to let them. She was like, look, you're not this unlikable.

[35:39] Jessica Francis Fichter: Like you are making people not like you on purpose.

[35:41] Colleen Francis: And I was like, well, I don't like them.

[35:44] Jessica Francis Fichter: And so I feel like it's like, and then you'd notice she was right.

[35:46] Colleen Francis: You know, shout out to Claire for being so real with me when we were in the seventh grade.

[35:49] Jessica Francis Fichter: It was one of those things. I think the Glinda Alphaba story about taking someone and just being like, Hey, I don't want to like necessarily change you per se. I can make you this.

[35:56] Colleen Francis: But at the end of the day, Glinda loved Alphaba for Alphaba.

[36:00] Jessica Francis Fichter: She was just like, I can help you be likable.

[36:02] Colleen Francis: Cause remember Alphaba's whole thing in the show is nobody liked her.

[36:05] Jessica Francis Fichter: And Glinda's like, I can make you like, and that's why that show, I can make that happen.

[36:09] Colleen Francis: Relationship just works.

[36:10] Jessica Francis Fichter: That's why, that's why we're still talking about it.

[36:13] Colleen Francis: Now, granted, would she betray me at some point for the wizard? That's none of my business.

[36:16] Jessica Francis Fichter: That's my college roommate. You know what I mean?

[36:19] Colleen Francis: People grow apart.

[36:20] Jessica Francis Fichter: It's a long four years.

[36:21] Colleen Francis: It's a long four years.

[36:22] Jessica Francis Fichter: Things happen.

[36:23] Colleen Francis: Yeah.

[36:24] Jessica Francis Fichter: Or for me and Mimi, two years.

[36:28] Colleen Francis: There you go.

[36:29] Jessica Francis Fichter: Exactly.

[36:30] Colleen Francis: But you know, if I was going to pick someone who was like actually going to get me through school, I'd probably pick Alice and Bechdel.

[36:34] Jessica Francis Fichter: Oh, wow.

[36:35] Colleen Francis: Like yeah, together.

[36:37] Jessica Francis Fichter: We got to get our, we could sit, we could talk about our complicated relationships with our dad.

[36:43] Colleen Francis: We could talk about like queer feminist theory.

[36:46] Jessica Francis Fichter: You know what I mean? Like I feel like Alice and Bechdel and I would be like actual, just like legitimate, nice roommates.

[36:49] Colleen Francis: I feel like Glinda and I would be like emotionally charged, too intimate, too fast, burn bright, and then die.

[36:57] Jessica Francis Fichter: That's the show I want to see.

[36:59] Colleen Francis: Like if your life was a show, I would want to watch that musical.

[37:01] Jessica Francis Fichter: Yeah.

[37:02] Colleen Francis: I mean, listen, plot twist. I didn't go to college, so this would truly be my first and only experience.

[37:07] Jessica Francis Fichter: So pals, what about you?

[37:09] Colleen Francis: Oh, you know, it's so funny.

[37:12] Jessica Francis Fichter: By the way, I loved everyone's answers so much.

[37:14] Colleen Francis: I just have to say that.

[37:15] Jessica Francis Fichter: I feel like I understand you in a new way.

[37:16] Colleen Francis: I've known you guys for three years, but that Dario thing still just has me cracking up.

[37:19] Jessica Francis Fichter: I know.

[37:20] Colleen Francis: It feels so true.

[37:21] Jessica Francis Fichter: I've even got the glasses on right now.

[37:22] Colleen Francis: That was not even intentional.

[37:23] Jessica Francis Fichter: I am wearing Dario glasses.

[37:25] Colleen Francis: I was thinking about, you might be getting this sense already, but I was very, very earnest and very, very hardworking.

[37:30] Jessica Francis Fichter: And I needed someone to loosen me up.

[37:34] Colleen Francis: But my first instinct was we often will say Elle Woods as an answer.

[37:38] Jessica Francis Fichter: And Elle Woods would be a great roommate.

[37:40] Colleen Francis: It would be so much fun.

[37:41] Jessica Francis Fichter: It took everything in me to not say Elle Woods.

[37:43] Colleen Francis: But I actually thought, and I don't think we've used him as an answer.

[37:46] Jessica Francis Fichter: My ideal roommate for freshman year Pals would be Emmett Forrest.

[37:49] Colleen Francis: You're so right.

[37:50] Jessica Francis Fichter: And like, that's the last character I played on stage.

[37:53] Colleen Francis: So I was kind of playing myself.

[37:55] Jessica Francis Fichter: I would say Pals, I don't know if he would loosen you up as much as I think you are Emmett.

[37:58] Colleen Francis: No, I am Emmett.

[37:59] Jessica Francis Fichter: Also, he would keep me super motivated.

[38:01] Colleen Francis: And I studied theater as well in college, but I think we would study law together because there's a theatrical element to law that I've always kind of fantasized about.

[38:09] Jessica Francis Fichter: And also it's much more lucrative.

[38:11] Colleen Francis: It's what?

[38:12] Jessica Francis Fichter: Right?

[38:13] Colleen Francis: I've always thought if there was another path, that would be probably my path.

[38:18] Jessica Francis Fichter: I feel like that tracks for you for sure.

[38:20] Colleen Francis: Then I was like, okay, you're absolutely right, Teresa.

[38:24] Jessica Francis Fichter: My junior and senior year, I needed that person to like, okay, calm down, loosen up a little bit.

[38:29] Colleen Francis: And so I actually thought about Michael from Be More Chill, a person who just wants me to chill out and get stoned in my basement.

[38:34] Jessica Francis Fichter: I'm really liking the Mimi answer.

[38:36] Colleen Francis: I feel like Mimi.

[38:37] Jessica Francis Fichter: I know now I'm liking the Michael answer.

[38:39] Colleen Francis Fichter: I'm like, wait, you wait, but also like, it could be Fiyero for you.

[38:44] Jessica Francis Fichter: Oh, I love that.

[38:45] Colleen Francis Fichter: Fiyero could be the roommate who gets you to go out and have fun.

[38:49] Jessica Francis Fichter: Also, Mark from Rent is a great roommate.

[38:51] Colleen Francis: I thought about Mark as well.

[38:54] Jessica Francis Fichter: So when we said rent, I was immediately buying rent.

[38:56] Colleen Francis: He would tell you to remember to take your meds.

[38:58] Jessica Francis Fichter: Yeah.

[38:59] Colleen Francis: He would make sure you ate.

[39:00] Jessica Francis Fichter: He would be the one who organized the friend group parties.

[39:03] Colleen Francis: I am also a huge Mark defender.

[39:05] Jessica Francis Fichter: If the barnacles want to at me, get in the comments, get in my DMs.

[39:09] Colleen Francis: I will defend Mark and rent.

[39:12] Jessica Francis Fichter: I have been known to be very critical of rent.

[39:15] Colleen Francis: I loved it in my day.

[39:17] Jessica Francis Fichter: I think they should.

[39:18] Colleen Francis: Yeah.

[39:19] Jessica Francis Fichter: Now that I'm old, I feel like that shows.

[39:21] Colleen Francis: I will defend Collins forever.

[39:24] Jessica Francis Fichter: Oh, okay.

[39:25] Colleen Francis: I'd love to know more.

[39:27] Jessica Francis Fichter: Here's the problem.

[39:28] Colleen Francis: Is Benny actually a bad guy?

[39:30] Jessica Francis Fichter: Also, Angel killed his dog.

[39:32] Colleen Francis: I'm not here for it.

[39:34] Jessica Francis Fichter: We did not have to kill that dog.

[39:36] Colleen Francis: He might've been annoying.

[39:39] Jessica Francis Fichter: We could have gotten him a bark collar.

[39:40] Colleen Francis: You know what I mean?

[39:41] Jessica Francis Fichter: And then they're celebrating it.

[39:43] Colleen Francis: And also Benny just wants to, you know, do his work and get paid.

[39:45] Jessica Francis Fichter: Now his approach, maybe not the best, however, comma their approach.

[39:49] Colleen Francis: Not great either.

[39:51] Jessica Francis Fichter: I mean, only thing to do is jump over the moon.

[39:56] Colleen Francis: I, my, my hair is on and my skin is on fire.

[40:01] Jessica Francis Fichter: There's so many things that just happened.

[40:03] Colleen Francis: I literally, there are so many points that I want to make and I'm not going to, because that would be a whole other podcast.

[40:08] Jessica Francis Fichter: So what I will say is that we're starting a new podcast, Teresa and Jess fight about rent, but it's like 18 episodes.

[40:15] Colleen Francis: I love it.

[40:19] Jessica Francis Fichter: What I will say is this, we only have 525,600 minutes in a year.

[40:24] Colleen Francis: And I'm so glad that we got to spend as many as we got to with the two of you measured in.

[40:29] Jessica Francis Fichter: They were my daylight, my sunset, my midnight, my cup of coffee, right?

[40:34] Colleen Francis: They were gorgeous.

[40:35] Jessica Francis Fichter: They were genuinely so wonderful.

[40:36] Colleen Francis: More than y'all are amazing.

[40:37] Jessica Francis Fichter: Y'all are awesome.

[40:38] Colleen Francis: You know, you were our dandelions today.

[40:40] Jessica Francis Fichter: Thank you.

[40:41] Colleen Francis: So it's, thank you so much.

[40:43] Jessica Francis Fichter: We got to hold you and make a little wish and we're going to blow you guys away and let you go and do your spectacular musical.

[40:48] Colleen Francis: Thank you both for coming in.

[40:50] Jessica Francis Fichter: Oh my God. Absolutely.

[40:51] Colleen Francis: It was such a pleasure speaking with you.

[40:53] Jessica Francis Fichter: Everyone go and download that single right now, right now, emotionally wreck yourself whenever you want to just press the play button, barnacles.

[41:01] Colleen Francis: To support new musicals and writers and new original stories, you have to do it.

[41:05] Jessica Francis Fichter: It is the law.

[41:07] Colleen Francis: It is the law.

[41:08] Jessica Francis Fichter: It's required.

[41:09] Colleen Francis: Thank y'all so much.

[41:10] Jessica Francis Fichter: Thank you guys.

[41:11] Colleen Francis: Thank you.

[41:12] Jessica Francis Fichter: Such a pleasure speaking with you.

[41:13] Colleen Francis: All right. Barnacles.

[41:15] Jessica Francis Fichter: Thank you for listening.

[41:16] Colleen Francis: We'll see you again.

[41:17] Jessica Francis Fichter: Thank you.

[41:18] Colleen Francis: Barnacles.

[41:19] Jessica Francis Fichter: Don't pay your rent.

[41:20] Colleen Francis: Thanks for joining us on New York theater, Barnes backstage pass hosted by Teresa Attridge and Pauls Macs.

[41:30] Jessica Francis Fichter: And if you believe in supporting original culture, shifting musicals, please like subscribe and share.