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[0:00] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Hi, I'm Jennifer Ashley Tepper.

[0:02] Joe Iconis: And I am Joe Iconis. And on today's episode of the Album Podcast, we're going to be talking to you about a little song called All The Mistakes He Made About The Girl. And it's a song that is sort of a companion piece to the last episode's song, The Song. And it's also about a writer, and it's a pretty angry tune in which a writer sort of comes to terms with the sensation of being able to write his life, but not really live it. And even though it is performed by yours truly, like last episode, it's not about me.

[0:45] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Definitely not.

[0:47] Joe Iconis: The song is not about me. No. So don't think that. Because it's not. All the mistakes that he made about the girl. I love this song. I think that if there's a jukebox musical about your life in like the beginning of your life that doesn't quite understand you, this might be the I want song. People who know the song know what I mean. I love this song and I feel like this is like Will Roland and I always talk about this being one of our favorites of your songs.

[1:28] Joe Iconis: I really like it. I wrote this song. So I wrote All The Mistakes That He Made About The Girl at the same exact time that I wrote Broadway Here I Come and The Werewolf Song and Norman. And did them all for the first time at this concert at the Duplex. And it was right after Blood Song of Love closed and I was very angry and really just I was feeling very frustrated with my life and my personal life and my career and just so many things. And all of those songs, they're really different songs, but I think they share an undercurrent of sadness and anger. And yeah, and All The Mistakes That He Made About The Girl is the most is the angriest of all of them and is really, really feels tied to the song in that it feels like the next step and okay, there's this writer and he's really good at writing his life and he's not good at living his life.

And so I think that if that's what the song is in a way that feels really tidy and feels it's like kind of, it's like kind of sexy, not sexy in like a like a wow way, but like sexy and like an appealing way where it's like, oh, this like this tortured writer who, you know, can only can only write these things and how hilarious is that, that, you know, he says her name at the end. If that's the song, All The Mistakes That He Made About The Girl is like, okay, well, like what actually happens then? You know, it's like, what is the collateral damage of that of this of this tortured writer who can only write and the reality of it is like messy and angry and a lot less cute sounding, you know. And so I think that, you know, when I listen to All The Mistakes That He Made About The Girl, it's, I think like, oh, what an asshole this guy is, you know.

And it is, and you know, obviously the guy is me. But it's it, I even as I was writing it, I didn't fully, you know, believe all the things that I was writing, but I thought it was important to like, to sort of paint this picture of this person that felt honest and unconcerned with like how he slash I was coming off in the song. You know, and like, and like all of my songs that are, you know, all of my songs are autobiographical and people always think the ones that are the most like on the surface autobiographical are the ones that are about me and don't necessarily think of other ones. But All The Mistakes That He Made About The Girl, while it's, it is, it's about me as much as all of my songs are about me.

But you know, there's, there's lots of it that, that isn't me. But I, you know, it's, it's about a writer who can't, who can't write his, who can write his life, but he can't live it. Is it sort of because of the perception of the song and the way you're talking about it that you feel like it wasn't performed for many years, like you wrote it, and it was written at a certain time in your life where it might have been perceived a certain way. And then it kind of got put on a shelf, but then it came back. Like, do you want to talk about that?

[5:03] Joe Iconis: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that was a couple of things. I think that I feel like probably at the time, I felt like people are just going to hear the song and think that it's about me and, and Lauren. And, and that's it. And while that was part of it, it wasn't all of it. And, and it just felt like, I don't want to, I don't want to sing this thing. And then everyone is like, in the, in the, in the audience, you know, whispering and being like, I know what this is about, like, they know some secret. And so I think that's why I was like, I just need a little space from, from doing it. And then, you know, like anything, once you have a little perspective, and there's a little time, it feels like less, you know, less, less that, it's like less on the nose.

And then also, I think I understood the song a little bit more I had some space from it. And, and, and, and I like, you know, liked it more, I could, I could be like, okay, this, this, this isn't actually about me. Because that's the other thing, too. It's like, you know, I'll write something. And I'll be like, this is, you know, I can look at it as I'm writing and be like, well, this is this is a line that makes sense as a line and makes sense for this character. But this isn't me. But then, you know, because of my relationship to my audience, I tend to hear from my audience quite a bit. And you know, whether that's like through social media, or whether that's literally at the bar after the show, people talk to me a lot about my work.

And so I think then you hear, you know, or I hear like, you know, I know that is that song about what I think it's about? You hear that enough times? They're like, wait, is it like, is it? Is this just me? Is this just me? You know, essentially, you know, talking, that talking about myself, you know, in, in, in musical form for six minutes? Is this something I should be like, embarrassed about or something? And so yeah, so I think once there's a little space, then it becomes, then it becomes something else. I also think the music of this song, like, I think there was a moment where I was like, Oh, Joe, like retired that song, like he did it, and he wanted to do it. And now it's like, I was like, that music so good, you should like do a thing you've never done and reuse it and write different lyrics.

Because the the beginning, like, it just sounds like a song that like, you would have already written it just sounds like a music that was somehow in you or something. I really, I really, the music for the song, it's like one of those songs where the music sounds exactly how I intended it to, you know, it was something that was in my head. And rhythmically, that song is one of my harder songs that I hate. I hate like listening to composers talk about like time signatures, and like pat themselves on the back for like, they're crazy time signatures. But the time signature in that song, it like it switches between the riff and the verse stuff.

[7:46] Joe Iconis: The way you just sang it, I'm like, Oh my god, a dinosaur. That sounded like a scary dinosaur.

[7:51] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, that was a Jurassic Park song.

[7:54] Joe Iconis: Yeah. But it's so it flip flops back and forth in a way that you that you can't, you can't actually hear like, I love playing with things like time and, and, and tempo and all that in ways that are like, not not obvious. So I think you feel it, you feel like something's like, really jagged about this song and something is, it feels like both driving and unsteady. You feel that without being able to be like, Oh, in the musical sections, it goes 1234512345. And in the song section, it goes 123456123. You know, and and that runs through the whole entire song. And yeah, and so and the aggression of it is something that I always imagined in my head, you know, the first time that I did it, it was just me on piano.

And I think it totally works just on piano. But I always felt like this is a song where it is about a writer and it is about a writer who writes songs and writes at a piano and, and it always felt like it should start on the piano and then turn into like guitars and drums and just be like tribal and furious and angry and take this thing that in the song sounded kind of cute and like a cabaret thing and, and, you know, writerly, but digestible. Now, all of the stuff underneath all the anger that was kind of bubbling underneath the surface is like, on the at the forefront, right? And sounds ugly and harsh. And, and it's definitely one of the like, sort of loudest, you know, yeah, most in your face musical moments on the whole album.

But in a way that I feel like is is true to what the song is. And it's there's nothing, you know, there's nothing cute or funny, or, or, you know, like, coyly sexy about it. It's just angry and sloppy. And, you know, operating at an 11.

[9:57] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. And I and the band on this track is so great. And like special shout out to Brent Stranathan, who played the drums on this tune after he recorded the drums in LA by himself. And it's just like insane what he was able to do. It's such a challenging song. And he played it like once before years ago. And just, you know, it's it, it really is like an incredible drum part. And that's all Brent Stranathan.

[10:27] Joe Iconis: I as long as we're also talking about performance memories, I feel like I have a whole litany of like, performance memories of you on Halloween shows, performing songs in like your Halloween costume. And one of the things really fun about the Iconis Family Halloween, you know, show is like, oh, you're watching, you know, Jason Tam sing Lisa, but he's like in a giant frog costume. You know, we've seen that on YouTube. But I feel like I do have a memory of you singing this with like some character head that wouldn't quite stay on and like, you know, whatever anyone's saying in that concert, it's not matching the costume almost always. And yeah, it's just very funny.

[11:00] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, you know, I mean, I like it because it is, you know, it also is like, that's like, it's about, you know, layers and putting, you know, putting screens in front of yourself and to distance yourself from things. So I like the idea of like, performing it in a, you know, in a, you know, frog costume or, you know, a fox costume or something. You know, the other thing, too, that with the tune, there is one of the reasons that it's so angry is that the writer in the song is, I think, annoyed. It's like, so it's not just that he's, it's not just that he's unable to like fully participate in his life, and he's sort of using the writing as an excuse. He's aware of it and angry at himself for it.

And I think that, you know, it sort of comes to a head at the end, where he says, because he's talking about himself in the third person, and he says, you know, that he can't use the word I, he only uses the word he. And, you know, and then, you know, doubles back on it. And it's like, well, that's what I'd do if it were me. Still not taking the blame, still not, you know, speaking as himself. And then the song is over, and he's furious at himself. But I think that's where, yeah, that's where the anger stems from. It's that sort of like, that shame and not being able to own up to himself and to the titular girl and to all of it, you know?

[12:37] Joe Iconis: I don't think we're gonna be able to say all the mistakes he made about the girl in unison here, but I was gonna try.

[12:43] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: We can try. You can do it. You can say it, go ahead.

[12:51] Joe Iconis: All the mistakes you made about the girl.

[12:53] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Damn it, I thought you were tricking me.

[12:58] Joe Iconis: Okay, we did it.

[12:59] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. Hey, thanks so much for listening or watching to my podcast. Do me a favor and go to wherever you just listen to or watch this thing and subscribe or like or give us a great rating or review and then head to bpn.fm slash album to find out even more information about this podcast, more ways to watch, more ways to listen and check out my album, Album. Thanks so much for hanging out. Album podcast is executive produced by Liz Armstrong, produced by Dori Berenstain, Alan Seals, Kim Garris, and the rest of the team at the Broadway Podcast Network. Be sure to visit bpn.fm slash album for both audio and video versions of this podcast and to listen to Album. That's all that I got.