This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Mandy Gonzalez: Dang. Okay, so you're right there from the beginning. Yeah, and I was like, yeah, I want to come sing.

[0:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, we're discussing the musical Hamilton, which maybe isn't the most requested musical on our listener request list, but it is definitely the musical most mentioned in our listener requests and the emails I get in general. For example, maybe it's how you all discovered musical theater, or you couldn't get tickets to Hamilton, so you went and saw another show and loved that show, or Peggy, who wrote, I just realized, and Peggy, who just wrote in and said that she had found new respect for Pacific Overtures because she could see what Hamilton learned from it.

Anyway, the cultural impact speaks for itself, and honestly, sometimes I can feel like, what is there left to say with a show like this? And that's where my guest comes in. Mandy Gonzalez is one of our great modern musical theater actresses. She blew us all away originating the role of Nina in In the Heights. Her collaborations with Lin-Manuel Miranda have continued as she was the reigning Broadway Angelica Schuyler for a long time. I think it was like six years or something. I can't wait to talk about that. She was also the alternate Norma Desmond in the now iconic revival of Sunset Boulevard. I'm thrilled she's here. Everyone, please welcome Mandy Gonzalez.

[1:46] Mandy Gonzalez: Hi, Jeff. Hi, everybody. I'm so excited to be here.

[1:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mandy, I'm so grateful you're here. Holy cow, you're legend status for me. Before we jump in, you've had such cool projects lately, including the musical Basura and then your solo show, Everything I Know. Can you catch us up on everything that's going on?

[2:04] Mandy Gonzalez: Sure. Yes, it's been a busy time. You know, I just got back from Atlanta. I was doing the new musical Basura at the Alliance Theater, which is written by, the music is by Gloria and Emily Estefan. What?

[2:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No problem there.

[2:22] Mandy Gonzalez: And it's directed by Michael Greif. What? Music supervision by Alex Lacamoire. Hey. And just a fantastic cast, book written by Karen Zacharias, who I had done a show of hers before. She's like the most produced playwright around the country. And she's Latina. She's Mexican American. And one of her shows has never been on Broadway. So it's about it's time. It's about time. I'm just putting it out there.

[2:55] Mandy Gonzalez: When I heard the premise of the show, it made me tear up just even hearing what it was about.

[3:00] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's based on a documentary. The documentary follows a community in Paraguay that it's a very poor community and it's grown up like on a landfill. So that's where they work. That's where they live. And this teacher comes in and starts to teach some of the children violin. The violins get stolen and the community sees how much the music means to these kids. And so they come together and they start to build instruments out of things they find in the landfill. And to this day, these musicians are traveling around the world and playing with some of the biggest orchestras around the world. And I think now they have about 3000 students. So it's just an incredible, incredible thing.

And, you know, we were so lucky because when we were in Atlanta, the teacher and the students were performing in Atlanta. We were there during the World Cup and, you know, they came out. And so we got to meet them and we got to hear them play. And it was just it's incredible. And the teacher said, just because you don't have anything doesn't mean you can't do something. And that really resonated with me.

[4:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You guys, what a great line. I know it sounds like a musical to me. So I'm excited for everybody to see it. And then what's your solo show? Because you've been doing that all over.

[4:22] Mandy Gonzalez: My solo show is Everything I Know. Mandy Gonzalez sings Lin-Manuel Miranda. And it's all of the music, the musical canon of Lin-Manuel Miranda. And it's weaved in story of the background of some of these songs, our friendship, where both of us have come from, our identity as Latinos. And it's really just a celebration of life. And like his music is for everyone. It's so universal. And I perform with symphonies all the time. And I love it. But I was never really asked to sing any of his music. And I sing Andrew Lloyd Webber and I sing Stephen Sondheim. And I really felt like his music belongs in those halls with those musicians. And so I wrote him and I said, I have an idea. And that idea is now on the stage and being toured all around the country. So I was so excited to debut it with the Boston Pops, Keith Lockhart, and with the New York Pops with Stephen Reineke this past year.

[5:44] Mandy Gonzalez: Exactly.

[6:15] Mandy Gonzalez: And there's so many songs that you know, but so many songs that you don't know. And yeah, that's why we call it Everything I Know.

[6:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's amazing. Congratulations on all of that. I selfishly need to tell you that I first heard you and became a fan through Dance of the Vampires.

[6:30] Mandy Gonzalez: Whoa, on YouTube?

[6:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, see, I was living in Utah without Slime Tutorials. I don't think YouTube was even around yet. And you guys didn't create a cast recording, but I was so curious and I'm like, you know, obsessed with Broadway flops, not a bad word.

[6:47] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah, we all have.

[6:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you. I went to eBay and spent way too much money for like a bootleg double CD of just like the audio of the show.

[7:01] Mandy Gonzalez: Wow.

[7:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And was like sitting in my Utah basement, being like, who is this woman singing these songs that are so theatrical, right? But you're absolutely nailing it. And I remember like Total Eclipse of the Heart started and the audience would laugh, but then by the end of you like raising the roof with your vocals, they're all like on their feet applauding. It was such a bizarre, bizarre intersection of feelings for me experiencing that bootleg. But anyway, just wanted to let you know.

[7:35] Mandy Gonzalez: I love the fact that it's become kind of this cult classic, like you've either seen it or you haven't. And if you haven't seen it now, you know, along with the bootlegs, you can go on YouTube and watch it. And I just think like one day, somebody, some young person is going to see it and go, oh, this is what it needed and, and really bring it back because I feel like the music is so incredible in that show.

[8:02] Mandy Gonzalez: And I have listeners in Europe who write in all the time and are like, you guys destroyed that show. It's incredible.

[8:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I get people that write that to me, too.

[8:16] Mandy Gonzalez: You're like, thanks, guys.

[8:18] Mandy Gonzalez: And I love, I love the fact that they feel such an ownership of that production that they saw, whether it was in Germany, I believe it is still playing in Germany. And so I feel like that's what you want really great musical theater to do. And so I do feel like it does have a second life, but I'm happy to be on the cult classic, the one that everybody goes, did you see it?

[8:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But that is like the ephemeral nature of theater makes that like my favorite conversation. I love when people begin a story with, oh, I was there the night that dot, dot, dot.

[8:54] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah, because so many of those it was like, I remember, you know, they were so they spent so much money on that show. And I was 23. I, you know, I thought that this is the best show in the world. And I really thought like it was gonna go. But there were all these things that started to happen. That was like, oh, wait, what? And one of our sponsors was, I think it was Mercedes. So they had Michael Crawford like drive on. You couldn't drive it because that's not allowed. But they had him in this red Mercedes and they like pushed it on at curtain call. And then he got out and he was like, and then we bowed. And I was like, wow, that's really weird. Like, why would they do this? You know, they were just trying everything.

[9:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow.

[10:12] Mandy Gonzalez: You've spent a lot of time inside big mega shows. And we're definitely going to dive into that. Because I think it's, it's such a different animal than say, like, workshopping Basura out of town.

[10:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You don't know like Basura where you're just like, Oh, please. I remember handing out flyers. Flyers or something. Yeah. Like to be like, come to our show. 25 bucks here. Take this flyer and you can pay 25 bucks. Come to 37th. And you know, all the way down 10th, between 10th and 11th or something like that.

[10:49] Mandy Gonzalez: That's crazy. I mean, I guess speaking of In the Heights, is that when you met Lynn?

[10:54] Mandy Gonzalez: Yes.

[10:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[10:56] Mandy Gonzalez: I was doing another show that didn't do very well at the time. It was a show called Lennon.

[11:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yes.

[11:02] Mandy Gonzalez: Yes. Based on the life.

[11:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All star cast in that thing.

[11:06] Mandy Gonzalez: Based on the life of John Lennon. And it was nine of us because nine was his lucky number. Yoko was very adamant about like wanting nine people in the cast. And, and, you know, we went out of town, we came in, it didn't do well. So it was closing. And I got this call that said that there was a new composer, a Latino composer. And he was putting on this show with all Latinos and what I want to go and meet him in the basement of the drama bookshop. I was like, well, you know, I'm from LA, and I'm the baby of the family. So and my dad is like, super, super protective. But I'm in New York now, you know, and like, nobody's around. And so I was like, should I go to the basement? Like, usually I would have my dad with me like at those kind of situations.

But I knew the drama bookshop, it's where everybody goes. Now it's like, even more beautiful. And I just went and I said, I went down the stairs and I opened the door and there was Lin-Manuel and Tommy Kail and Bill Sherman and Chiara and all of the people from In the Heights and, and then Alex Lacamoire was at the piano and I had known him because I did a workshop of the first act of Wicked. I was not.

[12:16] Mandy Gonzalez: There were so many things that he wanted to change before we went to Broadway, and it became "Breathe." And that's what makes Lin-Manuel, because he was like working on it and working on it until it was right, you know? And that's when it was right, when it became "Breathe" and became the song that everybody knows. When I hear that song, it feels like such a beautiful marriage of your talent and his talents. And the more that I read about him, it feels like that is a big part of his creative process, is finding inspiration in his collaborators, in the voices and the abilities of those that are surrounding him. I find it just a beautiful example of collaboration in our theater landscape. But there are other things that I really admire about Lynn.

I mean, in many ways, "Hamilton" helps me still believe because, yes, like sometimes big producers or corporations just go through the movies that they own and then ask which of them can be turned into musicals. But then sometimes Lin-Manuel Miranda is on vacation in Mexico and reads a historical biography, and then boom, like world turned upside down.

[14:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah. So let's kind of just break down the craziness of this. "Hamilton" is based on a 2004 biography by Ron Chernow. Probably not going to read it, everybody, but I'm glad that you did. Did you read it?

[14:45] Mandy Gonzalez: I did read it, and then I remember, you know, it has an incredible index as well. So if you only want to read about certain things, you can just thumb through the back. But it's a fantastic book. Ron Chernow is an incredible biographer, and one of the things that he's really interested in is like what did this person do with their hands when they talked? Like that's the level of detail that he's interested in capturing. It's not just a list of events or dates. And it seems that Lin-Manuel was really captivated by this person that Ron Chernow was able to essentially illustrate for all of us, you know, living all of these many years later, which is of course the great Alexander Hamilton, who I just knew as the guy on the ten-dollar bill and maybe the guy in the haunted mansion.

[16:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really? Where?

[16:06] Mandy Gonzalez: Well, like there's the duel, like when you're going through, because you're a SoCal girl. Yeah, when you're going through the dinner party and there's like, I mean, it's not, but like I always thought it was because there's the one, I'm like, "Oh, that's clearly Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton." But it is, anyway, in my brain, in my little Disney brain.

[16:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You'll start singing "Ten Commandments."

[16:32] Mandy Gonzalez: But I think that he was generally known as a lesser-known figure of the founding of the United States, and certainly this musical has completely flipped that around. But what this biography inspired was a hip-hop concept album by way of a mixtape. So Lin-Manuel was like, "Okay, this isn't necessarily going to be a musical, but I'm interested in creating an album exploring history in this way." When all of this is happening, you're in "In the Heights," no?

[16:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Or is this post?

[16:47] Mandy Gonzalez: This is post "In the Heights." Okay, so I first heard about it after "Wicked." I had my—okay, I had my daughter. So that was—congratulations!

[16:59] Mandy Gonzalez: Thanks! That was like a year after I left "Wicked." It happened real fast, and my daughter was about three months, and I got a call from Lin-Manuel, and he was like, "We're putting together this show at Lincoln Center of all of these songs. Would you want to come and sing with us?"

[17:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Dang! Okay, so you're right there from the beginning.

[17:20] Mandy Gonzalez: I was like, "Yeah, I want to come sing!" And I'm sitting here with the baby all day. I'd love to come sing! Yeah, no, I was like, "Well, you know, what do I do?" Like I had a—my mom was in town, luckily, and I was able to leave my daughter with her. And I went to Alex Lacamoire's apartment, and we went through the song "Say No to This," and then I sang on everything. Like I sang backup, and they also—it was like a show that was really showing music that Lin-Manuel loved. So I learned, you know, the opening, which they had done this incredible version of "Another Hundred People" but mixed with "New York State of Mind" as the opening. And so I sang on that, but I was there, and I was there with like all my friends. So it was me, it was Chris Jackson, it was James Monroe, who else? Oh my gosh, Naomi, Rebecca, Rebecca Jones, yeah, Gavin Creel. Like it was just all of our friends, and then, yeah, it was just—it was fun.

[18:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That was a super important night because, if—and correct me if I'm getting this incorrect—but the very first time "Hamilton" is kind of presented in any way, shape, or form, and at this point probably was still being thought of as a mixtape, was at the White House. Like, Lynn, what a place to debut this!

[19:02] Mandy Gonzalez: But one of the first things when President Obama came into the White House was that they hosted in the place that's now been completely leveled a performance of poetry, of spoken poetry, spoken word. And Lynn-Manuel was invited, and he, instead of doing any of the stuff that he was known for, he decided to debut things that he had written for "Hamilton," which essentially the opening number. Yeah, it's jaw-dropping, and it's—and Alex Lacamoire is up there on piano, and it's just the two of them. He asked everybody to snap, and everybody did in time, which is impressive for politicians.

[19:43] Mandy Gonzalez: Yes, absolutely! And I mean, you know, to keep in time with Lin-Manuel and with Alex Lacamoire, that's a big deal. Yeah, I remember watching it and thinking like you can still see it on YouTube. God bless! Yes, how I—thinking how brilliant it was. I remember hearing things afterwards. Some people said, "Oh, that's interesting," and some people were like, "What's he thinking?" Like, yeah, to do this. He just kept going, and then I think it was—and at Lincoln Center, it was like, "I'm going to be doing these songs that are from this album that I'm making." So it was still the album.

[20:11] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah, yeah, it was still the "Hamilton" mixtape. Yeah, I was just there for my friend and to do what I love and be a part—be in the room where it happens, you know? And so it turned out to be just like a total epic night. And because not only do you guys perform beautifully, which I think the Lincoln Center thing was a celebration of the American songbook, right? And Lynn was kind of the inspiration for what part of the American songbook—what does that even look like? What does that sound like? What does that look like for Lin-Manuel?

[20:45] Mandy Gonzalez: And it's also like a celebration of the fact that I was able to fit into a dress. Like I said, I just had a kid like three months before, and you know, as well as learning the music, my biggest thought was, "Oh my God, what am I gonna wear?" Like nothing fits, like none of my, you know, outfits. So I had to go and like find a dress, and you know, I wasn't working, I didn't have any money. It was just kind of like, "Oh, what do I do?" And I think I, you know, I pulled this together pretty good.

[21:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, absolutely! Well, like you said, it was kind of a monumental event because not only was it proof of concept, but it went beyond the concept. All of a sudden it was like, "Oh, this can't be confined to an album. This has—this is theatrical. This is a piece of theater."

[21:32] Mandy Gonzalez: Oh yeah, and I think Jeffrey Seller was at that performance and signed on. And so now this has outgrown the original idea of being a mixtape, and now it's becoming a full theater piece. I think it was the first time that all of them got to see that. I remember because Tommy Kail was a big part of all of it and of that night, and I remember I think it was also they got to see what this is—is this a concept album? Is this something more than that? And to be, you know, to be one of the people that helped them see that vision was so exciting. And I'm sure, you know, but I would have been there for—I would be there for any of them.

[22:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So let's talk about your musical influences because you look at the score of "Hamilton," and I guess I'll say specifically "Hamilton," you see Lynn's American songbook in there. He's got everything. He's got references to "South Pacific," but he's also, you know, got Notorious B.I.G. and Busta Rhymes. What are you growing up listening to in Santa?

[22:45] Mandy Gonzalez: Oh my gosh! Well, musically, I listened to a lot of standards with my grandmother. That's how I really fell in love with musical theater, listening to Ethel Merman and Edie Gourmet and Judy Garland. Edie Gourmet, we don't talk enough about that voice! That voice! If she walked into my life today, like everything ever truly fassy—every shelter possible—I listened to all of it. And then at my house, so both of my parents worked a lot, and they worked blue-collar jobs, you know, nine to five. My dad worked swing shift, so my only day with our only day with our dad was really on Sundays where my mom was like, "I need a break. You take like for the night or whatever." And with that, my dad would show us Elvis movies. So we watched a lot of like Elvis Presley movies, and you know, a lot of them are very musical.

[23:47] Mandy Gonzalez: Absolutely! And Margaret—oh, all "Viva Las Vegas," like all of it! But Elvis' '68 comeback. So my dad was really, really into Elvis. My mom was really into the Beatles, so we listened to a lot of that. And then I started listening to things that I was into, you know? I listened to Whitney Houston—that album I wore out—Barry Manilow, who I'm, you know, named after one of the songs. Pretty much everything—Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner. Well, that eclecticism is so reflected in what you do. I, like I said, I got to know you singing, you know, pop power ballads, but then you've got these huge musical theater credits. You've got "Lennon," and then "In the Heights" and "Hamilton."

[24:34] Mandy Gonzalez: It really is kind of reflective of how much music you're taking in throughout your life. Totally. And my brother and I are 15 months apart, I think, or maybe 13, I'm not sure. And my brother got his license, you know, and he used to drive me to school, and he put woofers in his car. He had an old Jeep and he put woofers in the back. Our brothers were similar. Yes. And my brother listened to a lot of Tupac and a lot of Dr. Dre and things. West Coast? Yes. And I loved all of that as well. And then in high school, I loved Alanis Morissette. Oh, gosh. You know, I got into that whole thing. That's so cool. Music's so awesome. Yeah, music is awesome. Good heavens. End of episode. No, it's true. Because my daughter, you know, she's introducing me to a lot of new music that's happening.

You know, I just went to the Bruno Mars concert. It was amazing. And that's something I love, and that we love together. But you know, like, she listens to a lot of like, Phoebe Bridgers. Is she an Olivia Rodrigo fan? She's an Olivia. Oh, gosh, her album is blasting all the time. That new album is so good. It's good. I want to not love it. Learn and listen and, you know, see what's going on during our car rides.

[26:01] Mandy Gonzalez: Oh, that's so sweet. Okay, so Hamilton with its eclectic score premieres at the Public Off-Broadway February 2015, I think. It sells out immediately, like the entire run. Did you see it in its original run? Yes. I got tickets. I think I called Tommy. And I got tickets and I went with my husband and I cried the whole time I was backstage. Like, I was just so proud of him. And then my friends that were on the stage, the performances that they were giving was just incredible. And I was just so blown away like everybody is. By that piece of art. It really was beautiful. It transfers to Broadway almost immediately. I mean, it opens February 2015, opens on Broadway August 2015. So it was, I mean, a direct shot.

There was no question whatsoever. And it's just one of those undeniable hits. It just kept getting bigger and bigger. I remember, where was I when it came out? I think I was working at Disney. And I remember, this isn't interesting, but maybe I'll just put it in there. I remember, it was the first time your phone could track your running. And so I kept seeing—

[27:12] Mandy Gonzalez: At my run. Yes, that. And so I kept seeing a lot of my friends posting their runs. And then you would see that they had been listening to Hamilton while they were running. Oh, yeah. And so I was like, oh, dang, this is a show that you can work out to, which are, you know, few and far between. Although I am known for breaking into tears during bench press while listening to Jeremy Hansen. I don't know why, but that's just who I am. So the point is that it spreads like wildfire in a beautiful, beautiful way. Hamilton wins every single award known to man. And then when do you join? Because at this point, there's like the Angelica tour, there's the Eliza tour, there's the Broadway— Well, they were getting ready to go to Chicago with the production that they were going to have in Chicago.

The sit down? Yes. And I had been offered to go to Broadway in the fall of 2016. And then I got a call because my dear friend Karen Olivo-Cao was asked to play Angelica in the Chicago Company. And she had, like you do, booked a gig before she was asked to go in Europe, like a symphony production thing of West Side Story. And so she had gone to do that. And they asked me to come a little bit earlier, so that I could rehearse with the Chicago Company so that I would get ready for Broadway because Cao would be—

[28:41] Mandy Gonzalez: Taking over Chicago. She would be missing like a week or two weeks during the rehearsal process, and they needed someone to come in. And I was like, yes! So you're rehearsing in Chicago with the intent of opening on— No, we rehearsed the Chicago Company in New York. Oh, okay. And it was amazing because they had a, what is that called? The turnstile, sorry. I don't know. They had that in the rehearsal hall. They had one built, the same one that they, I think we're going to take to Chicago. I'm not sure. Wow. So I got to rehearse with everybody on the turntable, which I don't know how I would have gotten into the show as fast as I did had I not had that experience. But I got to know everybody in the Chicago Company.

And I remember feeling like so much love for that company too, because it was also my birthday at the end of August and they all got me a cake. And then I had to go to Hamilton on Broadway to do a fitting and they had also gotten me a cake. So I was like, this is amazing! I love my cake! Me and my pasteles! Everybody's giving me cake! They're giving me cake! That's so cute.

[29:50] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah. Okay, so then you're in the New York Company. Yeah. I mentioned earlier about what it's like to be in a mega musical. I think from my point of view, there are true signs that you're in a mega musical. Number one, the show almost becomes an entity or a corporation. And then the other kind of sign for me is when there are weird hot takes that start appearing in the culture, whether it's videos of this Elphaba saying the note this way, and this Elphaba saying the note that way, and the super fandom that kind of is meant to prove how well you know the thing that you love by pitting people within it against each other. It's kind of a fascinating little social experiment. But also opinions like, Hamilton destroyed history class.

There are some historians that have bizarre hot takes about that Hamilton has actually not been great for history. And are you ever aware of all of these kinds of cultural pressures? Because the older that I get, the more that I see it as just a sign that something has become really big.

[31:07] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah, definitely. You know? Yeah, I've become older and wiser. I take things with, what does it all mean? I think that we're in a culture right now where everybody has an opinion. Amen. I mean, I think we've always been in that, but I think that everybody's opinion is— Everybody has a platform. Everybody has a platform. And I think that you really have to, what is it? Have integrity and stay true to your thoughts and your thinking and not get pulled into somebody else's orbit of like, this is how you should think about it. And I think that when you listen to the score, if you love it, if you see the show, if you love it, don't forget that when you start to hear other things being said about it. Don't forget what it means to you. And so, I think that that's the same with any piece that I do, with anything that I see or read or, you know, I always try to stay true to myself and what I—

[32:10] Mandy Gonzalez: To how you experienced it. And I think that was a big part of something that happened during Dance of the Vampires, because that was like the beginning of all of the chat rooms and what everybody thought and people from different countries like saying things and, you know, and you just kind of, you can get into that and then you're just in this, it's like this spiral that you can't get out of. And so, I try to stay out of this. Try to stay outside of it a little bit. What you just said kind of inspired in me this idea of, do you even know what your own opinion is about these things? Because we are surrounded by so many opinions that I wonder how much time we spend instead of just listening and figuring out who we agree with, but actually going inside, taking in whatever it is we're taking in and feeling what we feel about it. And then, like you said, staying true to that, right? If you felt something—

[33:10] Mandy Gonzalez: Instead of jumping on somebody else's bandwagon and being like, yeah, that's what it is and blah, blah, blah. It's just like, wait a minute, let's sit back and how do I feel? What do I think? And I think it's so important to find that voice within yourself. Yeah, that's beautiful. Well, I mean, speaking of finding voices in ourselves, the show is filled with those. I think when you look at Hamilton, just from the downbeat, you see one of the great, great, beautiful things that rap has brought to musical theater, which is an incredibly entertaining way to share exposition. I feel like that's always one of the biggest struggles in storytelling, is how do we tell the important things that need to be told in an entertaining way without boring the audience?

Like, I know audience, this isn't the most exciting thing in the world, but we're laying the groundwork so that the really exciting stuff can happen next. With rap, and specifically the way that Lynn writes things, the inner rhymes, the rhythms, and we even see this in like greens, greens, and nothing but greens, never have vegetables been so entertaining before, right? But because of the forms, because of the musical forms, this exposition, which Hamilton is filled with, is entertaining and sinks in on a whole other level. So, I would love to go through the show and tell the story, but honestly, listen to this cast album, right? Listen to the show, because it is filled to the brim with facts and factoids and exposition, and done in a really exciting way. And I can't think of, it would not have been possible without rap.

[34:55] Mandy Gonzalez: Like so many Easter eggs. You know, Hamilton's story is an immigrant story, you know? And I think that nobody can tell this story better than somebody that has really lived within that, you know, that life, that struggle. And I think that hip hop and rap, there's so many incredible storytellers. And Lynn Manuel just has a way of taking it to that next level, being able to fuse both of those things so that so many more people can feel like, oh, maybe I do like hip hop, or maybe I do like rapper. You know, if they just— Or maybe I do like history. It's like, well, maybe I do like musical theater, you know? It's like when my brother came to see In the Heights for the first time, like I told you, he's a huge rap fan.

And he came and he was like, this is the musical. This really brings me in, even though he'll call me if like on Family Guy, he'll be like, I just heard Shapoopy. Like, you know, and so I think that's the thing with Hamilton is people think that, oh, this and like, this is why I relate to it. Because this is my personal experience with it.

[36:03] Mandy Gonzalez: Within that, there are so many themes that we could dive into. And I think that that is the brilliance of the show. Number one, you said it's an immigrant story. I had read that most of the founding fathers were from like the country. Alexander Hamilton is a New York City boy. He's a city boy, right? And so coming to the table with that lived experience, right? Of being an immigrant in the city. But he came over from the island. Yeah, no, no, exactly. Exactly. And he had to survive when he got here. Like he came with nothing. No, not coming from money. No. Having like the farm and acreage in the sticks. But someone coming from an island without money immigrating to.

[37:20] Mandy Gonzalez: These two supposedly completely different shows coming up at the same time, but 1776 in its own way was revolutionary because it was taking the idea of the Founding Fathers and knocking them off the pedestal a little bit. They're not just these bronze statues. They're people with tempers and egos and sex drives, and that is relatable, right? They are all of a sudden Americans in the same way that we're Americans. It feels like Hamilton is the next Pokémon evolution of that. What Lynn has always said, it's telling about America then using America now, meaning that now we have people of color playing these roles to help us remember that we are these people. We are these young people coming into the country with hopes and dreams and conversations and the desire to make the world better, and it's possible.

The next evolution of that is to help us all see ourselves in our history so that we can keep making it. I don't know. I think this musical will always be forever connected to the Obama years for me because not only that's where it debuted at the very beginning, but also this idea of who can own their story and tell their story and have a stage or platform to tell that story. What has been your experience or your viewpoint on the casting traditions of this musical? I think the casting of this musical is to me brilliant. Putting people of color in these roles was so important and so significant. I think it allows you in so many ways to think about the wholeness of these men and women. You're forced to think about it.

Just like when you go to the African American Museum in DC, if you're lucky to go, you see the whole exhibit on Thomas Jefferson, and then you see the bricks of all of the enslaved people that he had that built his empire. I think having people of color to represent these important men in history allows you to also think about all of it. And it continues. To me, it's the start of the Obama era. I think that's really important, but I think that to go through this next wave that we've gone through as a country, and now to go through this time as a Latin artist, a Latina in the United States, and to hear about ICE and all of these things and the way that they talk about Latinos. And I think that Hamilton is a constant reminder of what can be done when you give people opportunity, and you treat people like human beings.

[40:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's beautifully said. Thank you for sharing that. I completely agree that it's a perfect encapsulation of the paradox, that these are incredibly important men and just humans in general that are also imperfect. And it is our responsibility to deal with that. It's uncomfortable. Talking about just a few of these characters, because I love your perspective, how long were you with the show then? Do you remember?

[41:04] Mandy Gonzalez: I was with the show for six years. So, really, four and a half. Thank you, Candy. Because we were closed down for 18 months. But every memory that I have is a great one. And so, I feel so lucky to have been able to have a job that long.

[41:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Employment, you guys. Come on, let's be real. The show's obviously named after Alexander Hamilton. He's the lead character. Once again, kind of a paradox of a man who won't shut up. And so, once again, what a perfect character to be rapping. You can't stop words from just flooding out of his mouth. His wife constantly says throughout the show, he writes like he's running out of time. And like so many revolutionaries, intelligent and insufferable. And what Hamilton reminds me is how good we used to be or how maybe we can be so much better at arguing, at debating. Because you see these rap battles go on throughout the show. The different politicians or revolutionaries debating like, what is this country going to become and stand for?

And how are they going to go about doing it? And you see them disagree and diss each other. And then what? The problem still remains and they keep working together. I don't know. Does that ring true at all for you? Once again, you've been on the show forever.

[42:37] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah, definitely. I think even now, you have an argument with somebody and it's like, AI, what should I say? In that time, it's in the moment and you had to be ready. And that's what it's like. What I imagine it's like, because I'm not a rapper, but what it's like to be in a rap battle. You have to be ready. You have to come with bars. You have to come with ideas.

[43:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, to be ready for your turn, for your shot. You just don't want to be the sucker at the end of the day who killed the guy. And that's what you're known for, right? Because the show teaches us is certainly through the character of Aaron Burr, which who do you think, it's called Hamilton, but I mean, Leslie Odom did win Best Actor at the Tonys. So, you sometimes wonder like, whose story is this? Is this Jesus Christ Superstar or is it Judas? I think that's up to you and the audience.

[43:34] Mandy Gonzalez: I think it's really interesting.

[43:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I think it's up to you and the audience. Whose story is it and whose story are you going to follow? There's so many people that come multiple times to the show. And I always think about what are they seeing this time? It was the same when I did Sunset Boulevard. It was like, are they really watching the story that they think they're watching, or is it in my mind? It's up to me. It's up to what I think it is. And I think that's the beauty of theater. Before you're told, this is what it's about, and that's what you should think. First of all, you get that moment of, what do I think? How does it make me feel? That's up to you. Is it Hamilton's story? Is it Burr's story? That's up to you.

[44:22] Mandy Gonzalez: That's kind of also the beautiful thing about theater versus, say, film, right? Where the director in film is directing your eye based on the frame of what you should be looking and what you should be taking in. When you go to the theater and you have all of these characters, maybe the way that you experience Hamilton is through Eliza, right? Because you're just tracking her throughout the show.

[44:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely. Or through somebody on the ensemble. Or watch their journey through the whole show and see, oh my gosh, now they're becoming this, and what does that mean? I think there's so many things to look at. At least that's how I felt when I saw the show. I was like, oh my gosh, there's so much. And David Coren set and satisfied that whole number. Incredible. And to be inside of it, it's such an honor because it's just one of the best things I've ever sung, one of the best things I've ever seen. The way that it's directed, the way that it's choreographed, it's like they all came, the lights, Howard Binkley, it's all how they all came together to make this moment. But that's how it is throughout all of Hamilton. You feel like, oh my gosh, they're all, when do you get to see a creative team that just flows so beautifully together? I think it's because they've all known each other and worked together, and there's a level of trust.

[45:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, the day after this episode drops, members of our Patreon fam over at Patreon! will receive a bonus episode I recorded with the current Eliza Schuyler Hamilton on Broadway, Lauren Mariasuse. Now, Mandy and I are discussing the many relationships around and about the creation of Hamilton, but Lauren and I focused more on the key relationships inside the show. Here is a clip of Lauren that I really love. Right after I asked her about the legendary antagonism between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr. Sir.

[46:24] Lauren Mariasuse: What I really noticed in the show, as I've watched our Burrs and our Alexanders, is they come from two completely different backgrounds. While the similarity between them is we're both orphans, Burr grew up affluent, never really had to ask for anything, never really had to fight for anything either, which is why his philosophy is, I'm just going to wait for it because that's all I've ever done and it's worked for me this far, right? There is just this essence of certainty and I'm going to make it anyway. I always have because, you know, I've been given this privilege. And then you meet this man who comes from nothing, absolute nothing, but who has this ambition that has put him into rooms and into places where people really, you know, turn their ear and they're like, oh, well, you got to say, what have you got to say?

And you're speaking for a lot. And at the time, so many people, there were also immigrants, you're speaking for different groups of people and allowing voices to be heard that are usually not in the room.

[47:52] Mandy Gonzalez: Totally. I especially see that in this production because Marcus, I mean, he is laser focused throughout the show and his Hamilton is, I've got a goal and that is my goal and I'm going to get there no matter what. And you see it in every decision he makes and every rap he does. And our Burr is played by Donald Weber, who has this like balletic, almost relaxed approach to Burr that shows that dichotomy. It's stark and it works so well.

[48:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, if you want to hear more of that great conversation with Lauren, and I highly recommend that you do head over to patreon.com slash a musical podcast and join our Patreon fam for only a few dollars a month. As Hamilton kind of goes through his story there in New York City and is meeting, you know, his friends at King's College and there's kind of a revolution of Burr and he's also meeting women in his life that kind of continue throughout the rest of the story. Eliza is one of the Schuyler sisters who he marries. And then of course, Angelica, you just mentioned Satisfied, which I think is maybe the highlight for me of the entire show. Can you talk to us about Angelica? Because Eliza is the love of his life. Angelica is maybe who he meets with on a more intellectual level, like his brain sister. How do you see it?

[49:02] Mandy Gonzalez: Well, you know, there's not a lot of history that has been written about women, about Eliza, about the sisters. And so, really, for me, it all kind of came through a painting that I saw of her. And she really, in my thoughts, was really a modern.

[49:37] Mandy Gonzalez: Very much the same in so many ways. I think you have to be, as a woman, as a working actress, as a mother, you're constantly juggling so many different things. And you have to have your eye on the ball because, you know, the moment you take it off, something could happen. The ball's going to hit you in the face. Exactly. And so, I think that, to me, that informed so much of what I wanted to bring to that character. And the same thing, the level of honor, the level of being that older sister, and protector, and making sure that everybody was okay before I helped myself, but I can't help the fact that I think this way, or I know these things, or, you know, but I can squash my own desire for the better of my family. It's all about the family, I think. And so, that's how I saw her. And I think there's so many people that I've read about, so many women that have had to do that. And so, I tried to bring that to that character.

[50:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's beautiful. You already brought up Karen Olivo. I guess that, the arpeggio thing at the beginning of "Satisfied" was taken from a song that Lynn wrote for her solo album or something like that. And then, he contacted her and was like, hey, I think I need it back. So, in many ways, we have K.O. to thank for the opening of "Satisfied." How cool is that?

[51:10] Mandy Gonzalez: I think all of us from "Heights," we're all super tight, and we are family. And so, it's the same thing of like, hey, do you want to come sing this? I might be doing this. It's like, yeah, whatever. Like, do your thing. We just want everybody to rise to the top, you know?

[51:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Weren't you in the American Express commercial? Didn't I see you?

[51:31] Mandy Gonzalez: Oh, yeah.

[51:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like, for example, that came on, I was like, oh, you know, call the "In the Heights" buddies. There's Mandy.

[51:37] Mandy Gonzalez: Oh, for sure. Yeah, that was like, yes, of course, because it fills my heart.

[51:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Speaking of your "In the Heights" family, can you talk about Chris Jackson as Washington or just in general? What makes that—

[51:52] Mandy Gonzalez: Yes, I can't wait to see him again.

[51:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I know, he's returning. What makes that such a great match of performer character, do you think?

[52:01] Mandy Gonzalez: First of all, I think Chris is an incredible artist and an incredible talent. He has one of those voices that you can't replicate. I guess in his life and the time that I have seen him and how he has grown as a person, I think that he's always been a leader, in my opinion. He was such a leader at "In the Heights" when we all first met. And he's that friend that you go to if you have something that, this is bothering me, and I don't know, what do you think? And he will sit and he will listen and he will talk to you. And I think that he brought so much of that to Washington, to create that character in my mind, to know my friend, and then to see that it was like, oh, there was so much that felt personal.

And so I'm excited to see him do that part now, because of all the life that's been lived since he was last on stage doing that role. Because I think with these characters, when you're given these kind of characters, when somebody writes this, they put together something like this and they say, here, you can play and do this kind of thing. It's like, it's not that hard. You just have to bring yourself. And I think that the older you get, the easier that becomes.

[53:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love that so much. What I see is someone who is a natural leader. And that actually helped me figure out my relationship to the Founding Fathers, that they don't need to be gods, and we don't need to treat them like gods, but we can treat them as excellent, excellent leaders, and look to them as ways to be leaders ourselves. You know what I mean?

[53:47] Mandy Gonzalez: Absolutely.

[53:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I think George Washington, not a perfect man, but man, maybe as close to a perfect leader as we've had. And how cool that Christopher Jackson can so beautifully, I mean, just by stepping on stage has that kind of gravitas, right? That where we're like, oh, I trust him implicitly.

[54:08] Mandy Gonzalez: I know who he is.

[54:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[54:10] Mandy Gonzalez: I know who he is. I mean, I have a father who's a veteran of Vietnam, and I can't imagine what it's like to go to war and to leave everything, leave your family for the good of your country. That's why I have so much respect for our veterans, and I hope that they have the kind of leaders that they would need in order to do the job that they need to do.

[54:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: To make the sacrifice effective and worth it.

[54:38] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah, to make the sacrifice to be away from your family, to give your life for your country. I hope that they have a leadership that also backs them up, will pay for their, make sure that they have a VA.

[54:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Seriously, though.

[54:53] Mandy Gonzalez: And a place to go when they get sick. Because I have that within my own family that I have to think about and worry about, and I don't think any veteran should have to deal with that. But that's another podcast.

[55:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We'll be back, everyone. Look, this is what this show is about, is because I think that this all exists within musical theater. These conversations, you can watch "Hamilton" and then go have dessert, and this will come up, right? About leadership and veterans and what it means to go to war. So I love that. Thank you. So the first act of "Hamilton" is interesting because it's really him meeting these revolutionaries, meeting friends. He gets close to George Washington and kind of becomes useful to him. And then the end of the first act is the revolution is happening, right? It's time to now figure out what the government's going to be. And that's what act two feels like it's going to be about, right?

But then there are these personal twists and turns where Hamilton cheats on Eliza, that information is actually leaked to everyone by him so that he can own his mistakes. It ruins his life because it leads to his son dying in a duel. "It's Quiet Uptown" is something that makes me more emotional the older I get. But ultimately, forgiveness brings he and Eliza back together. I don't know. It's a really fascinating story. But at the end of the day, you know, he dies because of this duel with his foe, Aaron Burr. And we're left with this question of who lives, who dies, who tells our story. What does that mean for you? And how has it changed you as a person performer?

[56:45] Mandy Gonzalez: Oh, my gosh. There's so many moments and quotes from that show that just are part of the vernacular. So that's a big one. And I think that's a question that's consistent throughout my life. And the things that I have been through, I think it's a good reminder to have and to think about because we're only here for a short time. And how do you want to be? How do you want to be remembered?

[57:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Did you and you don't have to answer this. Did you have an illness during "Hamilton"?

[57:21] Mandy Gonzalez: I did. Yes, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. While I was performing Angelica Schuyler in 2019, I had a routine mammogram, my first mammogram. And I was, yeah, and so I had to have surgery and chemotherapy and radiation. And I was able to do it with the support of the entire "Hamilton" company. Because after my surgery, I had a really hard time lifting my arm, you know, for the work.

[57:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Of course, work. Yeah.

[57:53] Mandy Gonzalez: And I remember feeling like, well, they're gonna fire me because I can't do that.

[57:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The iconic pose.

[58:00] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah, like I can't do the things I needed to do. And they said, well, that's okay. You'll do this. And then you'll go here and then you'll go here and then you'll go here. I'll never forget that. And I think that anybody going through an illness that has the support of their friends, I think it only helps you in your treatment and your journey through that illness to keep things positive around you. That like, oh, I kind of have an army around me, which is really nice.

[58:35] Mandy Gonzalez: Which then makes me think like, who lives, who dies, who tells your story? Everybody.

[58:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[58:40] Mandy Gonzalez: You know what I mean? If you try and do it all by yourself, like you've missed one of the great, I think, things about this show and just about life in general, which is like, it's people.

[58:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is. And it's experience. Go on that trip. Try out, make that podcast, do what you love, do what you can only dream of. Go for it. You've only got one chance. And if you fall, that's okay. We'll get back up. Like I've done it a million times.

[59:14] Mandy Gonzalez: That's amazing. Thank you so much for doing this with me.

[59:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you, Chad. What a total, total pleasure.

[59:21] Mandy Gonzalez: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast at gmail.com.

[59:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Don't forget to follow us on social media. We're on Instagram. We're on TikTok. And I would love to see you at Patreon exclamation point, where for only a few dollars a month, you can join this great community, have conversations, read essays, vote for episodes on the main feed, receive bonus episodes. It's really a wonderful time. I'm so grateful for the growing community over there and would love to see you. So, go to patreon.com slash amusicalpodcast. Also, if you're feeling generous, you can always head over to our Tee Public store, make an order there. The profits we receive, we give to Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS. And by the way, if you want to get links to any of those, they're in our show notes. But more than anything, thank you for being here and for making these episodes possible.

[1:00:10] Mandy Gonzalez: Hey, miss. Hey, Mandy. We would love to follow you and hear where we can buy tickets to your upcoming show. Can you let us know where that is?

[1:00:17] Mandy Gonzalez: Of course. First of all, thank you so much for having me. But you can follow me at mandygonzalez.com or on Instagram at mandy.gonzalez. You can find me also on TikTok. I don't go there as much because my daughter's also on TikTok and I don't want to embarrass her. So, follow me on Instagram. Also, you can follow me on Facebook. All the methods.

[1:00:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Fantastic. Amazing. Mandy, thank you.

[1:00:47] Mandy Gonzalez: Thank you again. Everybody out there, thank you for listening. And remember, oh gosh, like you said, there are so many quotes from the show. Which one do we even choose? Oh my gosh.

[1:00:55] Mandy Gonzalez: That's all we needed. Yeah, that's all we need.